subject:"dlang.org redesign n\+1"


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 14:54:16 UTC, Chris wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 14:15:58 UTC, ref2401 wrote:

Can we just get back the old design, please?


I think it's a waste of time to make the website look modern 
while what we really need is to point out the topics of 
interest (better):


What is D?

- Systems programming language
- Native (three compilers: dmd, ldc, gdc)
- C++/C like
- Modelling power
- Modern convenience
- Cross platform
- Interacts with C/C++
- Community driven (free, boost license)
- Benchmarks (+ examples)

AND also very important

- (Build) tools (dub, dvm)
- GUI toolkits
- third party libraries
- Guide to Windows integration
- ... (please fill in)

(basically all the major points that newbies ask about on the 
forum)


The layout should be clear and simple (one-click-shops), 
whether we jazz it up later is not so important now. I know 
that hours and days can be wasted with getting the CSS and JS 
right, however a convenient and clear structure are more 
important now than shiny icons and the like. In fact, thinking 
about the content/structure might give rise to new ideas as 
regards the design. If the design is there first, it adds 
unnecessary constraints regarding the structure / content, i.e. 
the free flow of ideas.


PS What annoys me about the modern, tablet friendly layouts is 
that once you enter a section, you lose reference to other 
sections, i.e. you have to browse back to the entry point, 
because the menu logic has changed. Example:


https://ocaml.org/learn/

If you click on one of the tutorials, say Basics 
(https://ocaml.org/learn/tutorials/basics.html), you have to go 
back to Learn to be able to go to the list of tutorials. We 
should avoid that.


Btw, a cool feature for the library section would be a way to 
quickly scroll up / jump back to the top of the page, like e.g. 
the up arrow on duckduckgo.com that takes you to the top of the 
page, or simply a back to top link under each function 
documentation. That would really help.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 14:15:58 UTC, ref2401 wrote:

Can we just get back the old design, please?


I think it's a waste of time to make the website look modern 
while what we really need is to point out the topics of interest 
(better):


What is D?

- Systems programming language
- Native (three compilers: dmd, ldc, gdc)
- C++/C like
- Modelling power
- Modern convenience
- Cross platform
- Interacts with C/C++
- Community driven (free, boost license)
- Benchmarks (+ examples)

AND also very important

- (Build) tools (dub, dvm)
- GUI toolkits
- third party libraries
- Guide to Windows integration
- ... (please fill in)

(basically all the major points that newbies ask about on the 
forum)


The layout should be clear and simple (one-click-shops), 
whether we jazz it up later is not so important now. I know that 
hours and days can be wasted with getting the CSS and JS right, 
however a convenient and clear structure are more important now 
than shiny icons and the like. In fact, thinking about the 
content/structure might give rise to new ideas as regards the 
design. If the design is there first, it adds unnecessary 
constraints regarding the structure / content, i.e. the free flow 
of ideas.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 19:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:

On 1/21/2015 6:46 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the
dlang.org site. I

basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:

Thank you very much for doing this! I very much appreciate the
hard work you put into it.

For comparison, here are some other language front doors:

Swift: https://developer.apple.com/swift/

Go: https://golang.org/

Rust: http://www.rust-lang.org/

C++: http://www.cplusplus.com/

C#: doesn't seem to have one!

Java: http://java.com/en/

Haskell: https://www.haskell.org/

Python: https://www.python.org/

Php: http://php.net/

Objective C:
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ProgrammingWithObjectiveC/Introduction/Introduction.html

Typescript: http://www.typescriptlang.org/

Perl: https://www.perl.org/

Ruby: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/

Fortran: http://www.fortran.com/

Dart: https://www.dartlang.org/

The Dart one is probably most similar to this proposal. But
there definitely is a trend among these sites - a menu across
the top, lots of white space, lots of scrolling. I can't say
I'm a fan, but it's undeniable what people consider modern. (I
like the older style, as it is denser and easier to navigate.)

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 19:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:

On 1/21/2015 6:46 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the
dlang.org site. I

basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:

Thank you very much for doing this! I very much appreciate the
hard work you put into it.

For comparison, here are some other language front doors:

Swift: https://developer.apple.com/swift/

Go: https://golang.org/

Rust: http://www.rust-lang.org/

C++: http://www.cplusplus.com/

C#: doesn't seem to have one!

Java: http://java.com/en/

Haskell: https://www.haskell.org/

Python: https://www.python.org/

Php: http://php.net/

Objective C:
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ProgrammingWithObjectiveC/Introduction/Introduction.html

Typescript: http://www.typescriptlang.org/

Perl: https://www.perl.org/

Ruby: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/

Fortran: http://www.fortran.com/

Dart: https://www.dartlang.org/

Why not think outside the box a little? Design trends change
every 3-5 years. I'm sure that users and web designers are
already getting sick and tired of the tablet-friendly layout we
see everywhere and are thinking of ways to improve and change it.
We should think about what the D website needs and maybe we'll
come up with an innovative feature (that others may copy). I've
learned that every website needs its own tailor made solution. D
needs a different approach than C++, Go or Rust. The current
approach of presenting code and the three major points
(Efficiency, (Modelling) Power, Convenience) is not bad at all.

Tools like dub and 3rd party software could be more visible (e.g.
Build D apps easily with dub the D package manager). Topics of
interest like Using D on Windows should be visible immediately.

Let's first think about the content, what's important and the
ways to structure it properly. The layout can be adapted and
jazzed up later.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-22 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d


On 2015-01-21 22:52, DaveG wrote:


You're not alone gents. I like some parts and content pages aren't too
bad, but the homepage is completely impractical. It feels like I'm
emulating a giant phone. The problem with mobile first design is the
desktop often gets left behind. This may not be a problem for sites that
are primarily viewed on phones, but I don't think that will be the case
for dlang any time soon.


It doesn't work so great on the phone either.

--
/Jacob Carlborg

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-22 Thread NVolcz via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones I 
needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So ddoc 
ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some macro's, 
tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to worry about 
all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. In 
fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. I 
don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't dmd 
always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that stuff? 
I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or they are, 
except me :)


+1. Nice. One thing, too much space and to large fonts. As a user 
I get to little information without having to scroll.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-22 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d


On 1/22/15 6:15 AM, ref2401 wrote:

Can we just get back the old design, please?


No. -- Andrei

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 16:00:51 UTC, NVolcz wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones 
I needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So 
ddoc ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some 
macro's, tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to 
worry about all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. 
In fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. 
I don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't 
dmd always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that 
stuff? I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or 
they are, except me :)


+1. Nice. One thing, too much space and to large fonts. As a 
user I get to little information without having to scroll.


And please don't forget accessibility! Keep it simple, because 
the blind and visually impaired cannot use fancy stuff that 
depends heavily on JS.


(cf. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_accessibility#Standards_and_guidelines)

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-22 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 05:27:04 UTC, Zekereth wrote:
First of all I like the new design. Way better than what's here 
now. I'll just throw another site into the mix that I like 
which is Ocaml's site: https://ocaml.org/ .


That's quite nice. It even has a section with recent forum posts. 
Maybe we should try to emulate it.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-22 Thread MattCoder via Digitalmars-d


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 17:03:52 UTC, Meta wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 17:00:55 UTC, MattCoder wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 16:58:39 UTC, Meta wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 05:27:04 UTC, Zekereth wrote:
First of all I like the new design. Way better than what's 
here now. I'll just throw another site into the mix that I 
like which is Ocaml's site: https://ocaml.org/ .


That's quite nice. It even has a section with recent forum 
posts. Maybe we should try to emulate it.


We are already doing that: http://dlang.org/  - Look at your 
right :)


Matheus.


It doesn't show up on my phone.


Oh yes, In mine It doesn't show up only when Vertical, but I can 
see in Horizontal.


Anyway, I more meant that we should model our general design 
off of ocaml.org as their site looks pretty good but still has 
a lot of information.


Indeed, that https://ocaml.org/ is a good start.

Matheus.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-22 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 17:00:55 UTC, MattCoder wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 16:58:39 UTC, Meta wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 05:27:04 UTC, Zekereth wrote:
First of all I like the new design. Way better than what's 
here now. I'll just throw another site into the mix that I 
like which is Ocaml's site: https://ocaml.org/ .


That's quite nice. It even has a section with recent forum 
posts. Maybe we should try to emulate it.


We are already doing that: http://dlang.org/  - Look at your 
right :)


Matheus.


It doesn't show up on my phone. Anyway, I more meant that we 
should model our general design off of ocaml.org as their site 
looks pretty good but still has a lot of information.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-22 Thread MattCoder via Digitalmars-d


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 16:58:39 UTC, Meta wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 05:27:04 UTC, Zekereth wrote:
First of all I like the new design. Way better than what's 
here now. I'll just throw another site into the mix that I 
like which is Ocaml's site: https://ocaml.org/ .


That's quite nice. It even has a section with recent forum 
posts. Maybe we should try to emulate it.


We are already doing that: http://dlang.org/  - Look at your 
right :)


Matheus.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-22 Thread aldanor via Digitalmars-d


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 17:15:59 UTC, MattCoder wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 17:03:52 UTC, Meta wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 17:00:55 UTC, MattCoder wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 16:58:39 UTC, Meta wrote:

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 05:27:04 UTC, Zekereth wrote:
First of all I like the new design. Way better than what's 
here now. I'll just throw another site into the mix that I 
like which is Ocaml's site: https://ocaml.org/ .


That's quite nice. It even has a section with recent forum 
posts. Maybe we should try to emulate it.


We are already doing that: http://dlang.org/  - Look at your 
right :)


Matheus.


It doesn't show up on my phone.


Oh yes, In mine It doesn't show up only when Vertical, but I 
can see in Horizontal.


Anyway, I more meant that we should model our general design 
off of ocaml.org as their site looks pretty good but still has 
a lot of information.


Indeed, that https://ocaml.org/ is a good start.

Matheus.


OCaml's site's using Bootstrap as a framework.. surprise surprise 
:)

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 05:52:06PM +, MattCoder via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:34:46 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
 wrote:
 z
 +1. I didn't like it either. But then again, the majority of people
 rarely agree with me, so I didn't say anything. But obviously I'm not
 alone in disliking this spaced-out layout.
 
 Well, of course it needs some polishing, for example: I think the top
 menu should be visible on screen while you scroll down, because
 imagine that you are at bottom of the page and want to go somewhere
 else (Forums, Documentation etc).

I'm not talking about polishing. I'm talking about the design itself.
(Obviously, the following is just my personal opinion, so please don't
take it personally.) Let's start at the top.

First, there's too much empty space. The entire top red band wastes a
huge amount of screen real estate while providing only 6 links and a
search bar that's (1) way too tall and (2) not wide enough for a
meaningful (i.e. non-trivial) query.  This giant red band is present on
every page, effectively reducing the height of the browser window by 20%
for no good reason. I mean, it could be a *single line* at the top of
the page, what's the point of squatting on 20% of the page filling it
with empty space? Don't get me wrong, judicious use of empty space is
very important in any website design. But this is overuse of empty
space.

Second, that ugly gray band in the middle with The D Programming
Language in a font that's way too big and in-your-face. This is nothing
but a reincarnation of the evil Splash Page from the 90's, where useful
content is hidden behind obscure links relegated to the corners of the
page while the prime real estate in the middle of the screen is an
overly big splash of the marketing message that the website authors want
to shove down your throat. No thanks. Let *me* decide if I'm interested
in your site, I don't need you to tell me what I should be interested
in. The title should be just that: a title. At the top of the page, in a
prominent place if you wish, but give me the *content*! When I go to a
website, I'm looking for *information*. Not ads and vacuous slogans. If
I wanted ads, I'd go read a pulp magazine website or something. Or
monsterjobs.com. But on the website of a *programming language*?! Ick.

Third, the real content of the page begins at the bottom of the screen,
with an overly large heading C-like Syntax. Really?? The primary
selling point of D is that it has C-like syntax? Wow. Not to mention,
the text that follows is cut off halfway at the bottom mid-paragraph
because the red bar and the gray splash screen has occupied almost all
of the prime real estate on the screen, so there's not enough room for
even a single paragraph of real content, but it has to spill to the next
screenful.

Which brings me to the next point: the page is WAY TOO LONG.  Worse yet,
its already overly-long length is further exacerbated by the
gratuitously huge title font sizes. Too much space is wasted on titles
and section headings for no good reason. And there are too many sections
on the page. Nobody is going to read past the first 2 screenfuls, which,
due to the wanton waste of screen space in the first screenful, has not
enough space for meaningful content.

When you have so much content you wish people to read, the first order
of business should be to provide easy navigation so that people can
*get* to the content in the first place. But, AFAICT, there is no way to
jump between those overly-long sections past the first screenful. So
basically, nobody is going to read that stuff. Unfortunately, that
includes important information about dub, the Dconfs, TDPL, the various
compilers, etc.. The only thing that's gonna impress people is the
overly huge title and the 3 slogans that, as far as they can tell, are
unsubstantiated (since the substantiation is too far down the page for
them to care to read). They will have no idea about the Dconfs, TDPL,
what compilers are available, etc.. I.e., things that are actually
pertinent to *programmers*, who are our target audience. Or are we
targeting marketing people as our primary audience now, and wish to
impress them how sleek our website design is?

IMO, things like (1) code examples, (2) language features, (3) language
and standard library docs, (4) compilers, (5) IDE support, are what
programmers care about. These things therefore should be front and
center. Programmers don't really care about the name of the language --
unless you first convince them they should, by showing them the
preceding pieces of information first. The overly prominent download
link is misplaced, because before you present pertinent info to the
programmer, why would he want to download your language in the first
place? Why should he care for *your* language above the hundreds and
thousands of others out there? The download link should be somewhere on
the first page, in an easy-to-find place, for when he decides OK

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:34:46 UTC, H. S. Teoh via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:

z
+1. I didn't like it either. But then again, the majority of 
people
rarely agree with me, so I didn't say anything. But obviously 
I'm not

alone in disliking this spaced-out layout.


Well, of course it needs some polishing, for example: I think the 
top menu should be visible on screen while you scroll down, 
because imagine that you are at bottom of the page and want to go 
somewhere else (Forums, Documentation etc).


There are some spaces not filled.

Yes the font size needs a scale up.

About the layout (Vertical Wall Text), I think they became 
popular because the mobile, you know those 7 or 8 size screens, 
then you can read the site like an ebook or maybe because the 
technical side, like partial loading.


Matheus.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:16:52 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:12:22 UTC, aldanor wrote:


Sebastian, could please you publish your fork somewhere so we 
could take a closer look and/or fork/destroy it? It would also 
be easier to make specific suggestions


https://github.com/skoppe/dlang.org

I case you only want to make changes to the css, you can 
checkout the `compiled` branch and just make changes to the 
css/styles.css


Too much wasted space on wide screens (right half of the screen 
is almost empty)


Suggested improvement:

http://imgur.com/a/zgSJa

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Vladimir Panteleev via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:34:46 UTC, H. S. Teoh via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 05:27:09PM +, anonymous via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan 
Koppe wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org
site. I basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` 
approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

I must have been taking crazy pills, because everyone else 
seems to

love it, but I don't like the homepage. I
have
to
scroll
down
way
too
much
to
actually
see
some
content.
Also, I can't make sense of the order of things.

I know this is what-everybody-else-is-doing, and I don't like 
on other

sites either.

[...]

+1. I didn't like it either. But then again, the majority of 
people
rarely agree with me, so I didn't say anything. But obviously 
I'm not

alone in disliking this spaced-out layout.


I don't like the front page either, but the doc view isn't so bad.

Then again, I'm biased because any major redesign means I'll have 
to implement it a second time for the forum :)

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Robert burner Schadek via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:52:56 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote:

Suggested improvement:

http://imgur.com/a/zgSJa


Or: http://i.imgur.com/ciSn8vM.png

Matheus.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread bachmeier via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones I 
needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So ddoc 
ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some macro's, 
tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to worry about 
all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. In 
fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. I 
don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't dmd 
always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that stuff? 
I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or they are, 
except me :)


And it only took me 20 minutes to get to the bottom of the page. 
Sorry, not a fan of that design, though I'm apparently the only 
one.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d


On 1/21/15 10:47 AM, bachmeier wrote:

And it only took me 20 minutes to get to the bottom of the page. Sorry,
not a fan of that design, though I'm apparently the only one.


There are a few others (including myself) who are not fans of this 
sparse homepage. IMHO the sparse design requiring a lot of scrolling 
must be the very point to be impactful.


I remember I saw a few sites where scrolling would effect some cool 
animation at the top, or would gradually (or suddenly) change the visual 
experience entirely, or would display fragments of a really really long 
rocket, etc.


As things are now I see the sparse intro and I go - interesting. But I 
also see a fragment of the stuff below it, so I'm like - this wasn't 
designed for my resolution. So let me scroll down. Then I see those 
bands alternating with code snippets, and am like, why do I need to 
scroll through all that crap for three clickable things of interest.


I do like the idea of a simple intro homepage with a big invite to 
download, but if at all it should be wholesome, not the beginning of an 
arduous scrolling workout.


I also like the pages with the menu on the right, they're clean and 
luminous. They should have collapsible menus.



Andrei

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread anonymous via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:52:07 UTC, MattCoder wrote:
Well, of course it needs some polishing, for example: I think 
the top menu should be visible on screen while you scroll down, 
because imagine that you are at bottom of the page and want to 
go somewhere else (Forums, Documentation etc).


Actually, I wouldn't like that. I have more often been annoyed by 
menues I don't need than by having to scroll up.


It may be nice for the 'Docs' menu on the left. Because there 
it's more likely that one tries different pages when searching 
for something. That menu also takes up horizontal space, which I 
find more tolerable on the big screen.


[...]

Yes the font size needs a scale up.


It's at 100% of the user/browser-defined size, isn't it? That's 
fine with me. On the the current site the font is actually 
smaller than what I set in the browser. I'm not a fan of that.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Vladimir Panteleev via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 18:01:14 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:
Then again, I'm biased because any major redesign means I'll 
have to implement it a second time for the forum :)


And also fix CHM generation. Let's not forget CHM generation.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d


On 1/21/2015 6:46 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:

Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the dlang.org site. I
basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


Thank you very much for doing this! I very much appreciate the hard work you put 
into it.


For comparison, here are some other language front doors:

Swift: https://developer.apple.com/swift/

Go: https://golang.org/

Rust: http://www.rust-lang.org/

C++: http://www.cplusplus.com/

C#: doesn't seem to have one!

Java: http://java.com/en/

Haskell: https://www.haskell.org/

Python: https://www.python.org/

Php: http://php.net/

Objective C: 
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ProgrammingWithObjectiveC/Introduction/Introduction.html


Typescript: http://www.typescriptlang.org/

Perl: https://www.perl.org/

Ruby: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/

Fortran: http://www.fortran.com/

Dart: https://www.dartlang.org/

The Dart one is probably most similar to this proposal. But there definitely is 
a trend among these sites - a menu across the top, lots of white space, lots of 
scrolling. I can't say I'm a fan, but it's undeniable what people consider 
modern. (I like the older style, as it is denser and easier to navigate.)

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC,

Impressive. Make the top menu larger on phone, pls. Otherwise, 
amazing.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1


shut up and take my money love it

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 15:35:59 UTC, Chris wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones 
I needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So 
ddoc ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some 
macro's, tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to 
worry about all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. 
In fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. 
I don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't 
dmd always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that 
stuff? I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or 
they are, except me :)


Good start. A few points:

1. The font is too big (see also 2.).
2. A lot of space is wasted. To fix this, maybe it would help 
to lay it out in tiles (two or three items in one row, cf 
http://foundation.zurb.com/).
As it is now, the three major points Convenience, Power and 
Efficiency are too far apart, there's too much scrolling 
involved (which users hate). All the important information 
should be visible at once.
3. No need to use so much space for The D Programming 
Language, especially since we don't have a fancy graphic to 
fill that space (why should we).
4. Tools like DUB etc. should be bundled as on the Foundation 
homepage under something like Build products, apps and 
services


Yeah, alot of stuff needs some fine-tuning. Specially the fonts.

Content is just copy-n-paste, could definitely use some marketing.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 15:25:53 UTC, wobbles wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones 
I needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So 
ddoc ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some 
macro's, tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to 
worry about all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. 
In fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. 
I don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't 
dmd always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that 
stuff? I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or 
they are, except me :)


I really like.
How much work would be involved in keeping this look and feel 
over the rest of the site do you think?


Took me around 14 hours to get this far. Probably still 80% needs 
to be done.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread anonymous via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu


I must have been taking crazy pills, because everyone else seems 
to love it, but I don't like the homepage. I

have
to
scroll
down
way
too
much
to
actually
see
some
content.
Also, I can't make sense of the order of things.

I know this is what-everybody-else-is-doing, and I don't like on 
other sites either.


I dig the red menu bar though (except for the hover effect). And 
'Docs' looks nice, too.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 16:22:08 UTC, aldanor wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 15:35:59 UTC, Chris wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan 
Koppe wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones 
I needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So 
ddoc ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some 
macro's, tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to 
worry about all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. 
In fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. 
I don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't 
dmd always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that 
stuff? I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or 
they are, except me :)


Good start. A few points:

1. The font is too big (see also 2.).
2. A lot of space is wasted. To fix this, maybe it would help 
to lay it out in tiles (two or three items in one row, cf 
http://foundation.zurb.com/).
As it is now, the three major points Convenience, Power and 
Efficiency are too far apart, there's too much scrolling 
involved (which users hate). All the important information 
should be visible at once.
3. No need to use so much space for The D Programming 
Language, especially since we don't have a fancy graphic to 
fill that space (why should we).
4. Tools like DUB etc. should be bundled as on the Foundation 
homepage under something like Build products, apps and 
services


Good work in the right direction!.. and now for some 
bikeshedding:


Agreed with Chris on (1), (2), (3), plus:
(4) Not mobile-ready / not responsive. Try resizing 
horizontally and see what happens. This is related to (2) and 
could be solved by using a proper grid framework.
(5) Use a better sans serif font (with a fallback to browser 
default sans family), it actually matters a lot :) Like Fira 
Sans, Helvetica Neue or something like that. Could use a better 
monospaced font as well
(6) Hover-on/-off effects (like in the menu above) are usually 
frowned upon since they won't work on mobile devices as you 
expect. It's sometimes better to just have plain properly 
styled links.

(7) The search bar seems misplaced


I am using a grid framework (purecss). And I resize all the time. 
What browser are you using?


Suggestions for the fonts are welcome. I just took the default 
and never looked back.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Ali Çehreli via Digitalmars-d


On 01/21/2015 07:00 AM, Ali Çehreli wrote:

On 01/21/2015 06:46 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:

  Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the dlang.org
  site. I basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:
 
  http://dlang.skoppe.eu

I love it!


While you're at it, can you fix the following as well? :p

  http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/

Kidding... I will adopt whatever you are doing for dlang.org.

Ali

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread ponce via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones I 
needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So ddoc 
ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some macro's, 
tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to worry about 
all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. In 
fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. I 
don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't dmd 
always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that stuff? 
I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or they are, 
except me :)


Awesome! I really like the one-click Download and Forum buttons.
Idea: DUB logo could link to DUB downloads

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread wobbles via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones I 
needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So ddoc 
ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some macro's, 
tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to worry about 
all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. In 
fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. I 
don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't dmd 
always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that stuff? 
I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or they are, 
except me :)


I really like.
How much work would be involved in keeping this look and feel 
over the rest of the site do you think?

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:10:09 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 16:30:37 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
This is awesome, and something I'd get behind. Here's a little 
feedback coming from a self-admitted dilettante:


* On my laptop it looks like this: http://imgur.com/v8TC1xq. 
I'm seeing the red menu at the top, the gray sparse box, and 
also an odd fragment of the next page which has a different 
background, a title, and a fragment of code snippet. The way I 
look at it is either you go balls-out with the sparse gray 
page and make it occupy the entire viewport, or you make it 
smaller to allow me to get to some content. As things are I 
can't stop wondering: Why did they waste all that space so I 
can't see stuff?


(...)

* Generally I feel I must scroll too much through too little 
(and occasionally crappy - not your fault) content on the 
homepage. There's just so much air. But that might be part 
of the page's very look and feel, so if people like it no 
problem.




Agreed. Again, it is a proof-of-concept.


* Page doesn't seem to load on mobile at all.


Hmm, that is odd. Some other people said the same thing. Loads 
fine on mine though...


* Clicking on Overview while I'm on the homepage does 
nothing. But there's no visual indication I'm already on 
Overview. Also clicking on Overview or the logo seem to do 
the same thing. Oh, wait, not all menus are meant to work - 
take that back.


There are no navigational helpers indeed. Didn't know how to 
get the current page from within ddoc to set css stuff to 
highlight things etc.


* There's no accordion on Language Reference which makes for 
a really tall menu, sometimes even longer than the content 
itself. I find that hard to navigate. Statistically nobody 
will get to Visual D and Community :o).


Haha. There are some other pages as well that nobody gets to 
read in full.




* Layout is jerky as I reduce the width of the page: sometimes 
the right/left margins are really wide, even on thin 
viewports, thus wasting already precious space, then they get 
thin, then they get wide again, etc.


There is a mismatch between some responsive stuff. Saw it as 
well. It's just about playing with thresholds, and alot of 
tweaking.


You should have no trouble building dlang.org on linux 
following the instructions at 
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md.


Will look into it.

The rationale for NOT using /usr/bin/dmd etc. is that 
oftentimes the docs use specific features of the compiler, 
which means you need to build a specific library docs with the 
same compiler version. For the site proper we always use the 
development version of dmd (which by default we assume is 
../dmd/src/dmd) so people can change the compiler and the docs 
in tandem. Once you get that in place things should work 
smoothly.


Yeah, but where can I get /dmd/src/dmd? Do I need to fork the 
dmd source code?


Sebastian, could please you publish your fork somewhere so we 
could take a closer look and/or fork/destroy it? It would also be 
easier to make specific suggestions

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 16:30:37 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
This is awesome, and something I'd get behind. Here's a little 
feedback coming from a self-admitted dilettante:


* On my laptop it looks like this: http://imgur.com/v8TC1xq. 
I'm seeing the red menu at the top, the gray sparse box, and 
also an odd fragment of the next page which has a different 
background, a title, and a fragment of code snippet. The way I 
look at it is either you go balls-out with the sparse gray page 
and make it occupy the entire viewport, or you make it smaller 
to allow me to get to some content. As things are I can't stop 
wondering: Why did they waste all that space so I can't see 
stuff?


(...)

* Generally I feel I must scroll too much through too little 
(and occasionally crappy - not your fault) content on the 
homepage. There's just so much air. But that might be part of 
the page's very look and feel, so if people like it no problem.




Agreed. Again, it is a proof-of-concept.


* Page doesn't seem to load on mobile at all.


Hmm, that is odd. Some other people said the same thing. Loads 
fine on mine though...


* Clicking on Overview while I'm on the homepage does 
nothing. But there's no visual indication I'm already on 
Overview. Also clicking on Overview or the logo seem to do 
the same thing. Oh, wait, not all menus are meant to work - 
take that back.


There are no navigational helpers indeed. Didn't know how to get 
the current page from within ddoc to set css stuff to highlight 
things etc.


* There's no accordion on Language Reference which makes for 
a really tall menu, sometimes even longer than the content 
itself. I find that hard to navigate. Statistically nobody will 
get to Visual D and Community :o).


Haha. There are some other pages as well that nobody gets to read 
in full.




* Layout is jerky as I reduce the width of the page: sometimes 
the right/left margins are really wide, even on thin viewports, 
thus wasting already precious space, then they get thin, then 
they get wide again, etc.


There is a mismatch between some responsive stuff. Saw it as 
well. It's just about playing with thresholds, and alot of 
tweaking.


You should have no trouble building dlang.org on linux 
following the instructions at 
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md.


Will look into it.

The rationale for NOT using /usr/bin/dmd etc. is that 
oftentimes the docs use specific features of the compiler, 
which means you need to build a specific library docs with the 
same compiler version. For the site proper we always use the 
development version of dmd (which by default we assume is 
../dmd/src/dmd) so people can change the compiler and the docs 
in tandem. Once you get that in place things should work 
smoothly.


Yeah, but where can I get /dmd/src/dmd? Do I need to fork the dmd 
source code?

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d


On 1/21/15 6:46 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:

Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the dlang.org
site. I basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:

http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language reference (see
Docs menu-item) is working.


This is awesome, and something I'd get behind. Here's a little feedback 
coming from a self-admitted dilettante:


* On my laptop it looks like this: http://imgur.com/v8TC1xq. I'm seeing 
the red menu at the top, the gray sparse box, and also an odd fragment 
of the next page which has a different background, a title, and a 
fragment of code snippet. The way I look at it is either you go 
balls-out with the sparse gray page and make it occupy the entire 
viewport, or you make it smaller to allow me to get to some content. As 
things are I can't stop wondering: Why did they waste all that space so 
I can't see stuff?


* The red band at the top has the logo misaligned vertically.

* The font in the menus at the top are disproportionally small compared 
to the red band's thickness. Possibilities are to increase the fonts, 
reduce the band and the logo thickness, or make the logo go out of the 
bound in some stylish/asymmetric manner.


* The search box flushes left with the rest of the menu. Flush right 
instead?


* The design clarifies that some of the homepage content is awful, which 
is good :o)


* I don't care much about the dark gray bands alternating with the light 
gray snippets. Especially the conference websites one makes it 
painfully clear the padding top and bottom are too large. To be frank 
they were poorly styled in the original homepage.


* The bottom red strip is too thick, font is too large, and the top 
padding is larger than bottom padding. There's that awful old legal 
notice that's not on the homepage. How old is your content?


* Generally I feel I must scroll too much through too little (and 
occasionally crappy - not your fault) content on the homepage. There's 
just so much air. But that might be part of the page's very look and 
feel, so if people like it no problem.


* Where's twitter?

* Page doesn't seem to load on mobile at all.

* Clicking on Overview while I'm on the homepage does nothing. But 
there's no visual indication I'm already on Overview. Also clicking on 
Overview or the logo seem to do the same thing. Oh, wait, not all 
menus are meant to work - take that back.


* Clicking on Docs takes me to spec.html. That looks nice except the 
Download menu item is rendered in almost invisible white.


* There's no accordion on Language Reference which makes for a really 
tall menu, sometimes even longer than the content itself. I find that 
hard to navigate. Statistically nobody will get to Visual D and 
Community :o).


* Preview new Layout is too small.

* Top-level menu entries without submenus, of which there's only one 
(Visual D) are rendered in an awkward black color that doesn't do much 
for me.


* The top and bottom spacing of submenus are not equal.

* The Improve this page and page wiki are not rendered properly.

* Layout is jerky as I reduce the width of the page: sometimes the 
right/left margins are really wide, even on thin viewports, thus wasting 
already precious space, then they get thin, then they get wide again, etc.



Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a couple of
hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones I needed to change.
After that things went pretty smooth. So ddoc ain't that bad. It is just
that I didn't have syntax highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I
hate that.


Yah, some editor support for ddoc would go a very long way.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some macro's, tweak
the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to worry about all the other
pages.


Love that.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. In fact, I
could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. Looking into
posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all misconfigured, and I bet I am
supposed to set those manually. I don't get it, doesn't everything has
its own place? Isn't dmd always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd
and that stuff? I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or they
are, except me :)


Glad to hear that. I don't use a Windows machine so it's good things 
work for you.


FWIW we build the actual website on Posix; I'm not sure how much 
win32.mak does, but posix.mak builds both the release and prerelease 
libraries using the right compilers etc. You should have no trouble 
building dlang.org on linux following the instructions at 
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md.


The rationale for NOT using /usr/bin/dmd etc. is that oftentimes the 
docs use specific features of the compiler, which means you need to 
build a specific library docs with the same compiler version. For the 
site proper we always use the development

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 05:27:09PM +, anonymous via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
 Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the dlang.org
 site. I basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:
 
 http://dlang.skoppe.eu
 
 I must have been taking crazy pills, because everyone else seems to
 love it, but I don't like the homepage. I
 have
 to
 scroll
 down
 way
 too
 much
 to
 actually
 see
 some
 content.
 Also, I can't make sense of the order of things.
 
 I know this is what-everybody-else-is-doing, and I don't like on other
 sites either.
[...]

+1. I didn't like it either. But then again, the majority of people
rarely agree with me, so I didn't say anything. But obviously I'm not
alone in disliking this spaced-out layout.


T

-- 
Живёшь только однажды.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d


On 1/21/15 9:10 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:

Yeah, but where can I get /dmd/src/dmd? Do I need to fork the dmd source
code?


Yah, it's all at 
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md 
- step by step instructions that take you from nothing to where you want 
to me. -- Andrei

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 15:35:59 UTC, Chris wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones 
I needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So 
ddoc ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some 
macro's, tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to 
worry about all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. 
In fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. 
I don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't 
dmd always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that 
stuff? I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or 
they are, except me :)


Good start. A few points:

1. The font is too big (see also 2.).
2. A lot of space is wasted. To fix this, maybe it would help 
to lay it out in tiles (two or three items in one row, cf 
http://foundation.zurb.com/).
As it is now, the three major points Convenience, Power and 
Efficiency are too far apart, there's too much scrolling 
involved (which users hate). All the important information 
should be visible at once.
3. No need to use so much space for The D Programming 
Language, especially since we don't have a fancy graphic to 
fill that space (why should we).
4. Tools like DUB etc. should be bundled as on the Foundation 
homepage under something like Build products, apps and 
services


Good work in the right direction!.. and now for some bikeshedding:

Agreed with Chris on (1), (2), (3), plus:
(4) Not mobile-ready / not responsive. Try resizing horizontally 
and see what happens. This is related to (2) and could be solved 
by using a proper grid framework.
(5) Use a better sans serif font (with a fallback to browser 
default sans family), it actually matters a lot :) Like Fira 
Sans, Helvetica Neue or something like that. Could use a better 
monospaced font as well
(6) Hover-on/-off effects (like in the menu above) are usually 
frowned upon since they won't work on mobile devices as you 
expect. It's sometimes better to just have plain properly styled 
links.

(7) The search bar seems misplaced

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread wobbles via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 15:25:53 UTC, wobbles wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones 
I needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So 
ddoc ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some 
macro's, tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to 
worry about all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. 
In fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. 
I don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't 
dmd always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that 
stuff? I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or 
they are, except me :)


I really like.
How much work would be involved in keeping this look and feel 
over the rest of the site do you think?


like it*.

Also, while we're on the subject, what ever happened with the 
redesign that was started last year?

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:12:22 UTC, aldanor wrote:


Sebastian, could please you publish your fork somewhere so we 
could take a closer look and/or fork/destroy it? It would also 
be easier to make specific suggestions


https://github.com/skoppe/dlang.org

I case you only want to make changes to the css, you can checkout 
the `compiled` branch and just make changes to the css/styles.css

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 15:08:02 UTC, Xinok wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu



This gets a big thumbs up from me. The layout is great, 
everything flows nicely, and a good blend of colors with the 
unofficial D red.


The only issue is that some elements aren't laid out correctly 
in Firefox.


Should be misplaced padding/margin somewhere.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:16:52 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:12:22 UTC, aldanor wrote:


Sebastian, could please you publish your fork somewhere so we 
could take a closer look and/or fork/destroy it? It would also 
be easier to make specific suggestions


https://github.com/skoppe/dlang.org

I case you only want to make changes to the css, you can 
checkout the `compiled` branch and just make changes to the 
css/styles.css


Great stuff, thanks a mil. I'll try to poke around tonight and 
see how to address some of the issues mentioned here

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Chris via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.


Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a 
couple of hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones I 
needed to change. After that things went pretty smooth. So ddoc 
ain't that bad. It is just that I didn't have syntax 
highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I hate that.


Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some macro's, 
tweak the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to worry about 
all the other pages.


BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. In 
fact, I could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. 
Looking into posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all 
misconfigured, and I bet I am supposed to set those manually. I 
don't get it, doesn't everything has its own place? Isn't dmd 
always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd and that stuff? 
I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or they are, 
except me :)


Good start. A few points:

1. The font is too big (see also 2.).
2. A lot of space is wasted. To fix this, maybe it would help to 
lay it out in tiles (two or three items in one row, cf 
http://foundation.zurb.com/).
As it is now, the three major points Convenience, Power and 
Efficiency are too far apart, there's too much scrolling involved 
(which users hate). All the important information should be 
visible at once.
3. No need to use so much space for The D Programming Language, 
especially since we don't have a fancy graphic to fill that space 
(why should we).
4. Tools like DUB etc. should be bundled as on the Foundation 
homepage under something like Build products, apps and services

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu


Well like everyone else said, this is awesome.

I don't know if this is problem in my browser (I'm using FF 
34.0), but some boxes seems smaller than should be, example:


http://i.imgur.com/Ge1ljck.png

Matheus.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 16:15:21 UTC, eles wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC,

Impressive. Make the top menu larger on phone, pls. Otherwise, 
amazing.


The menu is not working indeed. It needs to default to a sliding 
menu on phones.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d


On 1/21/15 8:44 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:

Yeah, alot of stuff needs some fine-tuning. Specially the fonts.


Better fonts would be awesome, these (and the existing ones) are just... 
bare.



Content is just copy-n-paste, could definitely use some marketing.


No worries about content for now I'd say.


Andrei

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Brad Anderson via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.

[snip]


Looks nice. The logo feels out of place. Maybe try one of these 
more minimalist variations:


https://drive.google.com/a/gnuk.net/folderview?id=0Bx3n3LnLsNBzNngyZ055eDhTbGsusp=sharing#

Perhaps d-flat-minimal.svg in white?

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread DaveG via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 18:01:14 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:34:46 UTC, H. S. Teoh via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 05:27:09PM +, anonymous via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan 
Koppe wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked 
the dlang.org
site. I basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` 
approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

I must have been taking crazy pills, because everyone else 
seems to

love it, but I don't like the homepage. I
have
to
scroll
down
way
too
much
to
actually
see
some
content.
Also, I can't make sense of the order of things.

I know this is what-everybody-else-is-doing, and I don't like 
on other

sites either.

[...]

+1. I didn't like it either. But then again, the majority of 
people
rarely agree with me, so I didn't say anything. But obviously 
I'm not

alone in disliking this spaced-out layout.


I don't like the front page either, but the doc view isn't so 
bad.


You're not alone gents. I like some parts and content pages 
aren't too bad, but the homepage is completely impractical. It 
feels like I'm emulating a giant phone. The problem with mobile 
first design is the desktop often gets left behind. This may not 
be a problem for sites that are primarily viewed on phones, but I 
don't think that will be the case for dlang any time soon.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d


On 1/21/15 11:55 AM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:

This giant red band is present on
every page, effectively reducing the height of the browser window by 20%
for no good reason.


I'm also a fan of vertical navigation menus because today's screens have 
a wide aspect ratio making vertical real estate precious and horizontal 
real estate cheap. -- Andrei

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 19:57:25 UTC, H. S. Teoh via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 05:52:06PM +, MattCoder via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:34:46 UTC, H. S. Teoh via 
Digitalmars-d

wrote:
z
+1. I didn't like it either. But then again, the majority of 
people
rarely agree with me, so I didn't say anything. But obviously 
I'm not

alone in disliking this spaced-out layout.

Well, of course it needs some polishing, for example: I think 
the top

menu should be visible on screen while you scroll down, because
imagine that you are at bottom of the page and want to go 
somewhere

else (Forums, Documentation etc).


I'm not talking about polishing. I'm talking about the design 
itself.
(Obviously, the following is just my personal opinion, so 
please don't

take it personally.)


Never, I don't take anything like this personally, this is a 
discussion board and sometimes we will agree and some don't! :)




There are some spaces not filled.

Yes the font size needs a scale up.


Please, no. The fonts are WAY TOO BIG already.


So, reading from my Galaxy Tab 7 on Horizontal I found harder to 
read than other sites, but this is a minor problem, it could be 
solved with CSS and media thing.


This is why I have said before, and I say again, that for 
mobile devices
you need a different kind of layout. You cannot use that kind 
of layout

for a PC browser. It simply doesn't translate.


Yes, but on the technical side the partial loading will be same 
on mobile and desktop, but in this case if it is easy or not to 
do this partial loading with this layout is a purely guessing of 
my part, I'm not a web-developer!


Matheus.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Phil via Digitalmars-d

I really don't like this style of page. I much prefer the look of 
the redesign that was proposed a while back and is floating 
around somewhere (I think there's a pull request lying around 
somewhere to get something very close to that). If I'm on a PC 
then I want to be able to see all the navigation options at a 
glance, but have to scroll forever.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread anonymous via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 21:13:09 UTC, Brad Anderson 
wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 14:46:22 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I basically took the 
`do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language 
reference (see Docs menu-item) is working.

[snip]


Looks nice. The logo feels out of place. Maybe try one of these 
more minimalist variations:


https://drive.google.com/a/gnuk.net/folderview?id=0Bx3n3LnLsNBzNngyZ055eDhTbGsusp=sharing#

Perhaps d-flat-minimal.svg in white?


Here's a mock-up with a wide version of the logo I've been toying 
around with:


http://i.imgur.com/nesKYdQ.png

SVG logo: https://mediacru.sh/8eaa7f9c3421

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 23:25:04 UTC, Mike wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 19:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright 
wrote:


The Dart one is probably most similar to this proposal. But 
there definitely is a trend among these sites - a menu across 
the top, lots of white space, lots of scrolling. I can't say 
I'm a fan, but it's undeniable what people consider modern. (I 
like the older style, as it is denser and easier to navigate.)


You forgot Nim:
http://nim-lang.org

And I personally like Nim's website best.

I have to agree with Walter, and prefer the denser design.

This proposal is attractive, though, but the new website trends 
are too sparse.  I realize this is the modern trend, but that 
trend seems to treat eveything like a 5 smartphone.


Mike


Nim site is not responsive and looks stupid on a mobile device.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Rikki Cattermole via Digitalmars-d


On 22/01/2015 1:11 p.m., Walter Bright wrote:
snip

I don't think that's surprising, but a big desktop display and a
smartphone are different enough they need a different mindset. I'm not
going to start editing code on a smartphone in the foreseeable future. I
need a BFG 9000 display.


If you only need one monitor, you're doing it wrong. Size doesn't matter.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Brad Anderson via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 23:32:29 UTC, anonymous wrote:


Here's a mock-up with a wide version of the logo I've been 
toying around with:


http://i.imgur.com/nesKYdQ.png

SVG logo: https://mediacru.sh/8eaa7f9c3421


That looks great.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 04:11:38PM -0800, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On 1/21/2015 3:25 PM, Mike wrote:
[...]
 This proposal is attractive, though, but the new website trends are
 too sparse.  I realize this is the modern trend, but that trend seems
 to treat eveything like a 5 smartphone.
 
 I don't think that's surprising, but a big desktop display and a
 smartphone are different enough they need a different mindset.

This makes me think that we need a fluid layout that can handle any
aspect ratio you may throw at it. Unfortunately, I don't think CSS is
currently able to do that just yet.


 I'm not going to start editing code on a smartphone in the foreseeable
 future.  I need a BFG 9000 display.

Complete with splash damage and tracer rays? :-P


T

-- 
WINDOWS = Will Install Needless Data On Whole System -- CompuMan

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Mike via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 19:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright 
wrote:


The Dart one is probably most similar to this proposal. But 
there definitely is a trend among these sites - a menu across 
the top, lots of white space, lots of scrolling. I can't say 
I'm a fan, but it's undeniable what people consider modern. (I 
like the older style, as it is denser and easier to navigate.)


You forgot Nim:
http://nim-lang.org

And I personally like Nim's website best.

I have to agree with Walter, and prefer the denser design.

This proposal is attractive, though, but the new website trends 
are too sparse.  I realize this is the modern trend, but that 
trend seems to treat eveything like a 5 smartphone.


Mike

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d


On 1/21/2015 3:25 PM, Mike wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 19:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:


The Dart one is probably most similar to this proposal. But there definitely
is a trend among these sites - a menu across the top, lots of white space,
lots of scrolling. I can't say I'm a fan, but it's undeniable what people
consider modern. (I like the older style, as it is denser and easier to
navigate.)


You forgot Nim:
http://nim-lang.org

And I personally like Nim's website best.


The slideshow is interesting, though I don't think code should be in them, as it 
goes to the next slide too quickly.




I have to agree with Walter, and prefer the denser design.

This proposal is attractive, though, but the new website trends are too sparse.
I realize this is the modern trend, but that trend seems to treat eveything like
a 5 smartphone.


I don't think that's surprising, but a big desktop display and a smartphone are 
different enough they need a different mindset. I'm not going to start editing 
code on a smartphone in the foreseeable future. I need a BFG 9000 display.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Rikki Cattermole via Digitalmars-d


On 22/01/2015 3:46 a.m., Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:

Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the dlang.org
site. I basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:

http://dlang.skoppe.eu

It is still a wip, but the landing page and the language reference (see
Docs menu-item) is working.

Doing the ddoc was a maze of macro's at first. But spending a couple of
hours untangling the mess, I finally found the ones I needed to change.
After that things went pretty smooth. So ddoc ain't that bad. It is just
that I didn't have syntax highlighting - nor goto-definition - and I
hate that.

Still, it is cool in a way that I can just change some macro's, tweak
the index.dd, the doc.ddoc and don't have to worry about all the other
pages.

BTW, the build process on windows was way easier than linux. In fact, I
could not get the makefile to run on linux at all. Looking into
posix.mak, I see a blur of path's, all misconfigured, and I bet I am
supposed to set those manually. I don't get it, doesn't everything has
its own place? Isn't dmd always installed in /usr/bin, /usr/include/dmd
and that stuff? I suppose not everyone is using the same distro. Or they
are, except me :)


I do like this direction.
Its giving me ideas.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Tobias Pankrath via Digitalmars-d

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 20:41:09 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:

On 1/21/15 11:55 AM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:

This giant red band is present on
every page, effectively reducing the height of the browser 
window by 20%

for no good reason.


I'm also a fan of vertical navigation menus because today's 
screens have a wide aspect ratio making vertical real estate 
precious and horizontal real estate cheap. -- Andrei


Onyl true if you have only one window open. I'm using a tiling WM 
and usually have to windows side by side. Suddenly it's the 
opposite.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d


On 1/21/15 3:53 PM, Tobias Pankrath wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 20:41:09 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

On 1/21/15 11:55 AM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:

This giant red band is present on
every page, effectively reducing the height of the browser window by 20%
for no good reason.


I'm also a fan of vertical navigation menus because today's screens
have a wide aspect ratio making vertical real estate precious and
horizontal real estate cheap. -- Andrei


Onyl true if you have only one window open. I'm using a tiling WM and
usually have to windows side by side. Suddenly it's the opposite.


The usual widescreen: 16:9, so 1.78x. If you divide the width by two: 
8:9, i.e. 0.89x. To make it the opposite you'd need 5:9, i.e. use 
about three windows side by side. -- Andrei

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Zekereth via Digitalmars-d

First of all I like the new design. Way better than what's here 
now. I'll just throw another site into the mix that I like which 
is Ocaml's site: https://ocaml.org/ .

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 00:39:52 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 23:32:29 UTC, anonymous wrote:


Here's a mock-up with a wide version of the logo I've been 
toying around with:


http://i.imgur.com/nesKYdQ.png

SVG logo: https://mediacru.sh/8eaa7f9c3421


That looks great.


Yep. That better.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:52:56 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote:

Suggested improvement:

http://imgur.com/a/zgSJa


Can't open link.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 20:46:40 UTC, MattCoder wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 19:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright 
wrote:

On 1/21/2015 6:46 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the 
dlang.org site. I

basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:


Thank you very much for doing this! I very much appreciate the 
hard work you put into it.


For comparison, here are some other language front doors:


I always thought that D deserved something like this: 
http://learnyouahaskell.com/


Matheus.


That one is awesome.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d

On Thursday, 22 January 2015 at 01:34:01 UTC, Sebastiaan Koppe 
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 17:52:56 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote:

Suggested improvement:

http://imgur.com/a/zgSJa


Can't open link.


Direct image links:

current: http://i.imgur.com/5IN3Nui.png
better:  http://i.imgur.com/CdgKxhM.png

(this will be even better for the cases where there are multiple 
text blocks besides a code block) - it both helps save horizontal 
space and slightly decreases the need for scrolling.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Sebastiaan Koppe via Digitalmars-d


On Wednesday, 21 January 2015 at 19:51:57 UTC, Walter Bright
wrote:

Swift: https://developer.apple.com/swift/

Go: https://golang.org/

Rust: http://www.rust-lang.org/

C++: http://www.cplusplus.com/

C#: doesn't seem to have one!

Java: http://java.com/en/

Haskell: https://www.haskell.org/

Python: https://www.python.org/

Php: http://php.net/

Objective C: 
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ProgrammingWithObjectiveC/Introduction/Introduction.html


Typescript: http://www.typescriptlang.org/

Perl: https://www.perl.org/

Ruby: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/

Fortran: http://www.fortran.com/

Dart: https://www.dartlang.org/


Thanks for putting them next to each other.

I always joke there is only one designer left.

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1

2015-01-21 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d

On 21 Jan 2015 16:51, Ali Çehreli digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote:

 On 01/21/2015 07:00 AM, Ali Çehreli wrote:

 On 01/21/2015 06:46 AM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:

   Just for fun and proof-of-concept I went ahead and forked the
dlang.org
   site. I basically took the `do-what-everybody-else-is-doing` approach:
  
   http://dlang.skoppe.eu

 I love it!


 While you're at it, can you fix the following as well? :p

   http://ddili.org/ders/d.en/


Don't forget http://gdcproject.org too.  :o)

Iain

Re: dlang.org redesign n+1