[digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a
Hi Leigh. The callsigns are source encoded into 28 bits, the grid in 15 bits. This gives 71 bits total for 2 callsigns and a grid. If the same information is exchanged by 6 bit letters of Contestia, 94 bits will be nescessary. That gives coding gain of 10*log(94/71)=1.21dB supposing the same baud speed but lower bandwidth. MFSK16 uses convolutional codes with viterbi decoder, Olivia uses Fast Hadamard Fransformation. The Reed Solomon block code that JT65 utilizes is a bit better than the two others. What is the coding gain against say Olivia? Maybe other 2dB? I would estimate the total coding gain difference of JT65 against Contestia abt. 3dB for the same symbol rate, bandwidth and tone separation. The tone separation of JT65a is 2.69Hz! This is very little considering multipath and ionospheric doppler shift. Is this mode really good for HF? Tone spacing of MFSK16 is 15.625Hz, of MFSK8 7.8125Hz. 73, Vojtech OK1IAK
[digitalradio] 12M Deep Search/ Straight talk on JT65a
I like Shetland John's idea about deep search work on 12 or 10 M. I think I will give it a try tomorrow on 12 and see what I come up with. Will check prop charts for best time to north of John O' Groats... Andy K3UK On 4/20/07, Bill McLaughlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No argument from me. Alot to be garnered from this...both technically and socially. The discussion alone is of value. The mode suite is pretty much what it is in context of its intent. That it provokes interest on HF might be an arrow pointing towards abit different goal. Might even mean that because it is not "conversational", it allows people to make contacts without having to converse with people like me :) In context, it is the tool of choice for me on MS and EMEthat it can even be functional on HF is a side benefit. As for the other modes, keep experimenting... 73 Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com , "Leigh L Klotz, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think W1JT has done an excellent job not only with the DSP and mode > design but also with the software, making it open souirce, documenting > it well both technically and for users, and seeding further development > with a group of others. I don't mean to detract from this work at all. > > I think there are lessons to learn from JT65a on HF, and we should make > sure we understand why it works and how, and that includes the social > processes and the technical ones, before we go tweaking it. > > I think there is definitely room for a new mode that brings some of its > advantages, and as Bonnie says, this time in the sunspot cycle is the > perfect crucible. > > So, let's keep using it and getting experience, but also make the effort > to look critically and deconstruct it. > > 73, > Leigh/WA5ZNU > -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com
[digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a
No argument from me. Alot to be garnered from this...both technically and socially. The discussion alone is of value. The mode suite is pretty much what it is in context of its intent. That it provokes interest on HF might be an arrow pointing towards abit different goal. Might even mean that because it is not "conversational", it allows people to make contacts without having to converse with people like me :) In context, it is the tool of choice for me on MS and EMEthat it can even be functional on HF is a side benefit. As for the other modes, keep experimenting... 73 Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Leigh L Klotz, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think W1JT has done an excellent job not only with the DSP and mode > design but also with the software, making it open souirce, documenting > it well both technically and for users, and seeding further development > with a group of others. I don't mean to detract from this work at all. > > I think there are lessons to learn from JT65a on HF, and we should make > sure we understand why it works and how, and that includes the social > processes and the technical ones, before we go tweaking it. > > I think there is definitely room for a new mode that brings some of its > advantages, and as Bonnie says, this time in the sunspot cycle is the > perfect crucible. > > So, let's keep using it and getting experience, but also make the effort > to look critically and deconstruct it. > > 73, > Leigh/WA5ZNU >
Re: [digitalradio] Weak signals Olivia vs JT65
At 0245Z moved to 7078.5 1000hz Olivia 250/8 Beaconing every minute. John VE5MU - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Weak signals Olivia vs JT65 me too, same freq, same settings , 75 watts. Beacons starts around 25 seconds past the minute for 30 seconds Andy K3UK On 4/20/07, John Bradley < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As of 0130Z beaconing OLIVIA 250/8 tones 14073.5 +1000hz every minute running 75 watts. Here 20M is still open with very few CW sigs mostly from W6 John VE5MU -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.5/769 - Release Date: 4/19/2007 5:56 PM
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a
I think W1JT has done an excellent job not only with the DSP and mode design but also with the software, making it open souirce, documenting it well both technically and for users, and seeding further development with a group of others. I don't mean to detract from this work at all. I think there are lessons to learn from JT65a on HF, and we should make sure we understand why it works and how, and that includes the social processes and the technical ones, before we go tweaking it. I think there is definitely room for a new mode that brings some of its advantages, and as Bonnie says, this time in the sunspot cycle is the perfect crucible. So, let's keep using it and getting experience, but also make the effort to look critically and deconstruct it. 73, Leigh/WA5ZNU
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:00:52 - "expeditionradio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Leigh L Klotz, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > My conclusion is that this mode is about 10-15 dB worse than > > it appears to be.. > After a week or so of monitoring JT65A on 14MHz and 7MHz, I tend to > support your conclusions. > Nonetheless, the recent fad flurry of activity on 14076 with JT65A > demonstrates the enthusiasm for any potential new extreme weak signal > modes during the bottom of the solar cycle. > I agree that it's not all it seems to be. I've been following the discussions over the last month so a few days ago I started to spend time receiving JT65A on 20m, and today started having contacts. I must thank David WD4KDP for my first QSO, this afternoon UK time. I was initially impressed:- GM/Shetland to WD4 with only 10 watts to a random length dipole hastily errected at 6' agl (there are no trees here to use as makeshift supports) was a nice introduction to the possibilities of a new mode.. However, on reflection his signal on the waterfall would have been decodable on Olivia or MFSK ,and quicker with more information. He was showing as -10dB S/N but as mentioned in previous posts, the reported S/N level a moot point. My feeling is that, brilliant as it might be for its intended purpose, with the deep search function, operating within organized skeds for EME on V/UHF, it just is too sensitive but lacks the dynamic range for HF. Bonnie is right that we're at the bottom of the solar cycle, but 20m is still not the barren wasteland of 70cm, where you are poining a beam out to space. We aren't trying to sniff out a tiny signal in an otherwise silent band, a job that JT65 must excel at. I've seen signals today on 20m that were registering as -20dB and others as -1dB, with the strongest signals showing S9 on the rig's S-meter. Strong signals just seem to upset things, the software is much happier with a nice clean, but very weak, possibly fading and multipathed, signal. I find that if I adjust levels to keep "RX Noise" to ~0dB on a reasonably quiet band (a few -10dB signals) then as soon as a big signal appears the red warning lights start flashing, the waterfall turns white and signals are shown as -1dB but with no message recovered. The mode doesn't seem capable of the dynamic range we see on the HF bands. Perhaps we need to try it on the notionally closed higher HF bands like 12m/10m and work on prearranged skeds, with a valid "deep search" file to test propagation during this low point in the solar cycle? Just my observations after a few days of messing about with the mode du jour. Cheers, John GM4SLV (I'll still be giving it a go though, it's quirky enough to be interesting!)
Re: [digitalradio] Weak signals Olivia vs JT65
me too, same freq, same settings , 75 watts. Beacons starts around 25 seconds past the minute for 30 seconds Andy K3UK On 4/20/07, John Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As of 0130Z beaconing OLIVIA 250/8 tones 14073.5 +1000hz every minute running 75 watts. Here 20M is still open with very few CW sigs mostly from W6 John VE5MU -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com
[digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a
All, Actually an old controversy re JT65* modes in the EME community, dead horse oft beaten but still think it is the mode suite of choice for MS and EME; also think more to the point is what other weak signal modes work as well or better with bandwidth taken into balance on HF? If for a 60 second transmit sequence would other weak signal modes work as well (Throb, Olivia, DominoEx at low baud rates come to mind as well as KAM10) given the minimal information exchange in JT65? Interesting to try and find out! Be curious to try a 4 baud DominoEX with FEC (for example) transmit sequence sending just call and grid for one minute and see what happens on HF. Remember the WSJT modes were meant for EME, MS and weak signal VHF/UHFanything else is a bonus. 73 Bill N9DSJ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Good work Leigh, I was wondering about some of those -31 readings that I > could hear with my ears. I think Olivia testing is a good thing for this > weekend. > > Bonnie, the "fad" is an interesting issue. Certainly weak signal > performance is a popular goal, but I wonder if it JT65A is popular in part > to the format. If we used Olivia in short bursts with very structured > exchanges, and the Olivia software popped up SNR reports (like MixW does for > Olivia, or PC-ALE does for ALE) , I wonder if Olivia would outperform and be > more popular than JT65A?I'll argue that its not just the performance of > JT65A but the format. > > > Andy > > > On 4/20/07, expeditionradio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com , > > "Leigh L Klotz, Jr." > > wrote: > > > My conclusion is that this mode is about 10-15 dB worse than > > > it appears to be, and we should start doing more careful > > > tests alongside Olivia and plain old MFSK as controls in > > > side-by-side propagation conditions. > > > 73, > > > Leigh/WA5ZNU > > > > > > > Hi Leigh, > > > > After a week or so of monitoring JT65A on 14MHz and 7MHz, I tend to > > support your conclusions. > > > > It appears that "not-pre-defined-QSO" texting on JT65A is similar to > > Olivia 250/8 for weak signal robustness on HF. Although the throughput > > of texting via Olivia 250/8 is rather slow, it far exceeds glacially > > slow JT65A. > > > > Nonetheless, the recent fad flurry of activity on 14076 with JT65A > > demonstrates the enthusiasm for any potential new extreme weak signal > > modes during the bottom of the solar cycle. > > > > Bonnie KQ6XA > > > > > > > > > > -- > Andy K3UK > Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 > www.obriensweb.com >
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a
I think that "fad " might be a tad strong. Personally I am amazed at J65 and it's ability to work under very low signal conditions. The other night I worked JA on 20M without ANY indication of a signal, just one tiny spike, and nothing by ear. I would however happily switch to another mode which could function almost as well, but one that would permit ragchewing keyboard to keyboard under very low signal conditions. The other thing that J65 did, is drove home the fact that a band might appear dead, but is not. propagation is a strange and wonderful thing!!! John VE5MU - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a Good work Leigh, I was wondering about some of those -31 readings that I could hear with my ears. I think Olivia testing is a good thing for this weekend. Bonnie, the "fad" is an interesting issue. Certainly weak signal performance is a popular goal, but I wonder if it JT65A is popular in part to the format. If we used Olivia in short bursts with very structured exchanges, and the Olivia software popped up SNR reports (like MixW does for Olivia, or PC-ALE does for ALE) , I wonder if Olivia would outperform and be more popular than JT65A?I'll argue that its not just the performance of JT65A but the format. Andy On 4/20/07, expeditionradio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Leigh L Klotz, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My conclusion is that this mode is about 10-15 dB worse than > it appears to be, and we should start doing more careful > tests alongside Olivia and plain old MFSK as controls in > side-by-side propagation conditions. > 73, > Leigh/WA5ZNU > Hi Leigh, After a week or so of monitoring JT65A on 14MHz and 7MHz, I tend to support your conclusions. It appears that "not-pre-defined-QSO" texting on JT65A is similar to Olivia 250/8 for weak signal robustness on HF. Although the throughput of texting via Olivia 250/8 is rather slow, it far exceeds glacially slow JT65A. Nonetheless, the recent fad flurry of activity on 14076 with JT65A demonstrates the enthusiasm for any potential new extreme weak signal modes during the bottom of the solar cycle. Bonnie KQ6XA -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.5/769 - Release Date: 4/19/2007 5:56 PM
[digitalradio] Weak signals Olivia vs JT65
As of 0130Z beaconing OLIVIA 250/8 tones 14073.5 +1000hz every minute running 75 watts. Here 20M is still open with very few CW sigs mostly from W6 John VE5MU
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a
Good work Leigh, I was wondering about some of those -31 readings that I could hear with my ears. I think Olivia testing is a good thing for this weekend. Bonnie, the "fad" is an interesting issue. Certainly weak signal performance is a popular goal, but I wonder if it JT65A is popular in part to the format. If we used Olivia in short bursts with very structured exchanges, and the Olivia software popped up SNR reports (like MixW does for Olivia, or PC-ALE does for ALE) , I wonder if Olivia would outperform and be more popular than JT65A?I'll argue that its not just the performance of JT65A but the format. Andy On 4/20/07, expeditionradio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com , "Leigh L Klotz, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My conclusion is that this mode is about 10-15 dB worse than > it appears to be, and we should start doing more careful > tests alongside Olivia and plain old MFSK as controls in > side-by-side propagation conditions. > 73, > Leigh/WA5ZNU > Hi Leigh, After a week or so of monitoring JT65A on 14MHz and 7MHz, I tend to support your conclusions. It appears that "not-pre-defined-QSO" texting on JT65A is similar to Olivia 250/8 for weak signal robustness on HF. Although the throughput of texting via Olivia 250/8 is rather slow, it far exceeds glacially slow JT65A. Nonetheless, the recent fad flurry of activity on 14076 with JT65A demonstrates the enthusiasm for any potential new extreme weak signal modes during the bottom of the solar cycle. Bonnie KQ6XA -- Andy K3UK Skype Me : callto://andyobrien73 www.obriensweb.com
[digitalradio] Re: Straight talk on JT65a
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Leigh L Klotz, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My conclusion is that this mode is about 10-15 dB worse than > it appears to be, and we should start doing more careful > tests alongside Olivia and plain old MFSK as controls in > side-by-side propagation conditions. > 73, > Leigh/WA5ZNU > Hi Leigh, After a week or so of monitoring JT65A on 14MHz and 7MHz, I tend to support your conclusions. It appears that "not-pre-defined-QSO" texting on JT65A is similar to Olivia 250/8 for weak signal robustness on HF. Although the throughput of texting via Olivia 250/8 is rather slow, it far exceeds glacially slow JT65A. Nonetheless, the recent fad flurry of activity on 14076 with JT65A demonstrates the enthusiasm for any potential new extreme weak signal modes during the bottom of the solar cycle. Bonnie KQ6XA
[digitalradio] Straight talk on JT65a
Some of the supposed benefits of JT65a are real, but some are illusory. I noticed that I could plainly heard tones and quite easily see them on the waterfall at about the same level of visibility as a nearby Olivia QSO, yet WSJT was reporting -20dB or son S/N. Reading the paper [1], I found that the S/N number reported isn't what we thought it was. The -24dB claim in the paper for copying arbitrary messages is relative to the 2.5KHz bandwidth of an SSB phone signal, so if we consider noise on a 50Hz window such as for PSK31, that would be 17dB less noise, so an S/N of -7. In its own bandwidth of 177.6Hz, that corresponds to an S./N of -12.5dB. That isn't bad, but it certainly isn't -24dB below the noise, and fits well with the claim that JT65a outperforms human CW by 10dB. OOO, RO, and 73 are QSL acknowledgements of the initial reports. They aren't sent in the MFSK modulation scheme...they are alternated tones. They claim to have a -32dB S/N requirement, but readjusting again we get -20.5dB for recognition of 3 of the required exchange parts of a QSO. So about 10 log(2500/177.6)=11.5dB of this S/N is illusory. The callsign and grid square exchanges are sent in the normal modulation scheme, which claims -12.5dB S/N in its own bandwidth, but if you "assist" the decoder with a list of callsigns and grid squares to choose from, the claimed coding gain is 4dB. I suppose it isn't much different from being able to copy that DX op's callsign that he never seems to send after a quick check of the spot database, but I believe this 4dB, while it may be nice for the EME folks, is an illusion, as those using "deep search" on HF have seen, generating phantom contacts. (Illusory may be too kind a word for this particular feature...) They do claim a 5dB gain using "averaging", though, and this seems real. I believe this uses the proprietary soft RS decoder and multiple minutes of transmission, so this gain does seem reasonable. A final source of "gain" is the placebo ionospheric heating effect often seen on 15m and 10m during contests, and on 20m any time PSK31 signals are booming in but the rest of the band is dead. The ability of this software to search in a 600Hz window and the willingness of operators to devote time to TX and RX testing on specific frequencies is probably one of its biggest advantages over other modes for HF weak signal work. My conclusion is that this mode is about 10-15 dB worse than it appears to be, and we should start doing more careful tests alongside Olivia and plain old MFSK as controls in side-by-side propagation conditions. [1] http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/K1JT_eme2006.pdf 73, Leigh/WA5ZNU
[digitalradio] wsjt and stuff
Hi Andy, Hope all is well. Just a few random comments: Using "deep search" - some in the EME community (mostly CW "purists" for lack of a better term" think the use of shorthand messages and deep search decoding are not for making valis contacts...can seend you more of this if interested but basically deep search "re-constructs" based on anticipated messagesmuch like being on a beacon freq and knowing in advance the callsign then copying it more easily as you know what to expect. I will not bring this up in the other forums as I do not wish to deflate fun with semantic debate :) It may become an issue if one tries for an "award" of some sort on HF, however. As for meteor scatter - I saw you wanted to try during Random Hour.I will sadly be at work but please do so. One comment though, try 6 meters first as it is vastly easier than 2 or 220 mhz. Even if you do not have a 6 meter antenna, try it with your HF antenna...the pings on 6 are usually both stronger and longer. Also be prepared for a madhouse at times as everyone is on about the same freq at the same time only halved by being on different 30 second sequences -- that is the intent and the appeal. The convention is FSK441 mode but you may hear some JT6Malso no shorthand messages are used as it just adds to the confusion.have fun! Take care and CUL, Bill N9DSJ
[digitalradio] Fwd: [tapr-announce] Join Us at the First TAPR/AMSAT Joint Hamvention Banquet
Joint TAPR/AMSAT Banquet at Dayton 2007 For many years, AMSAT and TAPR have held "competing" Hamvention dinner on Friday evening. Given the tremendous overlap in membership and interest between the two groups, this has always required tough choices. We're pleased to announce that this year, AMSAT and TAPR will be holding a joint dinner, and it will be at a great venue -- the Air Force Museum. Here are the details: "Dinner Under the Wings" will be held Friday evening May 18,2007 at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH in conjunction with the 2007 Dayton Hamvention. The doors open at 18:00 with a cash bar and appetizers in the Air Power Gallery (World War II). The buffet dinner will be served at 19:00 in the Cold War area. Following a few announcements and a short presentation you will be free to roam the museum. Price for the dinner is $35.00 per person and includes appetizers, salad, meal, dessert, coffee, iced tea, tax and gratuity. See http://afmuseum.com/ or http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/ for information about the museum. The museum will close at 22:00 and everyone must be out of the museum by then. Reservations are required and can be purchased from TAPR -- go to http://www.tapr.org/dayton.html for more details. There will be no ticket sales at the TAPR booth this year, and sales will close on Monday night, May 14, 2007 to allow us to give the museum a count on Tuesday. There may also be a special showing of the IMAX movie "Space Station" at 5:00 PM prior to the banquet. See below for details. Banquet Menu Roll and Butter Salad with choice of Ranch, French or Italian Dressing Top Round of Beef w/carver Classic Sautéed Chicken Breast in a Sun Dried Tomato Cream Sauce Grilled Salmon Blackened with Jack Daniel's BBQ Sauce Roasted Red Skin Potatoes Rice Pilaf w/ Pine Nuts and Thyme Prince Edward Blend w/ Yellow Wax Beans, Green Beans and Baby Carrots Sugar Snap Peas w/ Red and Yellow Peppers Chocolate Chocolate Espresso Torte w/ berries and Melba Sauce NOTE: A vegetarian meal choice is available; if you would like this, please let us know when you order your tickets. -- At 5:00 PM on Friday afternoon there will be a special showing of the IMAX movie "Space Station". This movie is approximately 47 minutes long and contains about 4 minutes of amateur radio contacts between school children and the International Space Station. The IMAX theater is located in the museum building off the main lobby area. Attendees at the movie will be able to go to the banquet at 6:00 PM when the doors open about 10 minutes after the movie is over. The lobby contains restrooms, telephones and some seating. At least 50 people must sign up for the movie in advance. Reservations are required -- to place yours, call the museum IMAX theater on (937)-253-IMAX. Adults are $6.00, seniors are $5.50, and students 8 through college 22 (student ID required) are $4.50. ___ tapr-announce mailing list NOTE: This list includes all addresses currently subscribed to any TAPR mailing list. Please don't try to manually unsubscribe from this list; it won't work. If you unsubscribe from all other TAPR mailing lists, you will automatically be unsubscribed from this one. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- Begin Message --- ** *** Time is running out!!! *** *** Remember -- tickets must be purchased by May 14!!! *** ** Joint TAPR/AMSAT Banquet at Dayton 2007 For many years, AMSAT and TAPR have held "competing" Hamvention dinner on Friday evening. Given the tremendous overlap in membership and interest between the two groups, this has always required tough choices. We're pleased to announce that this year, AMSAT and TAPR will be holding a joint dinner, and it will be at a great venue -- the Air Force Museum. Here are the details: "Dinner Under the Wings" will be held Friday evening May 18,2007 at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH in conjunction with the 2007 Dayton Hamvention. The doors open at 18:00 with a cash bar and appetizers in the Air Power Gallery (World War II). The buffet dinner will be served at 19:00 in the Cold War area. Following a few announcements and a short presentation you will be free to roam the museum. Price for the dinner is $35.00 per person and includes appetizers, salad, meal, dessert, coffee, iced tea, tax and gratuity. See http://afmuseum.com/ or http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/ for information about the museum. The museum will close at 22:00 and everyone must be out of the museum by then. Reservations are required and can be purchased from TAPR -- go to http://www.tapr.org/dayton.html for more details. There will be no ticket sales at the TAPR booth th
[digitalradio] Bozo on JT65A
Ok I am one of those bozo's that can't seem to get anything going. I followed the guide and all the settings look right. I see where it is receiving or looks like it is receiving. Question is the receive screen is split into 2 parts. I show the time, etc on the receive part but does not decode, but on the lower part I see the callsign of the transmitting station. Is this right or am I out in left field? 73 Kurt K8YZK
Re: [digitalradio] Are you ready for the TARA "Skirmish?"
GRRO, another one - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Are you ready for the TARA "Skirmish?" Howdy: Well, the time has come to ready ourselves for the next running of the TARA "Skirmish" Contest on 21 April 2007 from 00:00 UTC to 24:00 UTC 21 April 2007. Yes, this is a FULL 24 hour contest that I'm sure all of you will enjoy. I know some out there still think this is just a 12 hour contest and that just isn't true. So please tell your friends to check the rules out at the address given below. We really could use some help from our RTTY friends. I know you folks have come through BIG TIME for us in the past with our other contests and we need your help again now. If you have a few hours to play some radio how about jumping on the bands and give us few contacts. We have a LOT of new folks that are getting into the different contests and we're in hopes that they'll try the "Skirmish" too. One of our friends from the 070 PODXS - Steve, W3HF said it like this, "This is a digital version of CQ's WPX contest, with a few variations. Lots of digital modes count, not just PSK, so you can play around with some of those other modes you dabbled in last weekend with 070's Flavors contest. Like CQ's contest, the multipliers are the unique prefixes you work. As Steve told you what's neat about this contest is that it allows you to try several modes of operation: PSK, RTTY, KELL, MFSK, MT63, THROB, ASCII, SSTV AND PACKET. SPECIAL NOTE TO OPERATORS: You can submit more than one mode. These must be separate entries and NOT combined! 'Sub' modes of the parent mode all count as one mode. i.e. PSK includes PSK10, PSK31, PSK63. RTY includes 60 wpm and 100wpm. MFSK includes OLIVIA. etc. Please, submit OnLine Score Submission Form for each separate parent mode. This is our final contest for the 2006/2007 contest season. This contest will determine who will be crowned as TARA's Digital King/Queen and take top honors in the TARA Digital Tour'ney! Full rules for the contest can be found on TARA's web site at: http://www.n2ty.org/seasons/tara_dpx_rules.html SIDE NOTE: For you PREFIX HUNTERS out there this contest surely will allow you to pick up a few new prefixes, so come join the fun! Have Fun and I hope to print you... de NY2U Bill Eddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- See what's free at AOL.com. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.5/769 - Release Date: 4/19/2007 17:56
[digitalradio] Are you ready for the TARA "Skirmish?"
Howdy: Well, the time has come to ready ourselves for the next running of the TARA "Skirmish" Contest on 21 April 2007 from 00:00 UTC to 24:00 UTC 21 April 2007. Yes, this is a FULL 24 hour contest that I'm sure all of you will enjoy. I know some out there still think this is just a 12 hour contest and that just isn't true. So please tell your friends to check the rules out at the address given below. We really could use some help from our RTTY friends. I know you folks have come through BIG TIME for us in the past with our other contests and we need your help again now. If you have a few hours to play some radio how about jumping on the bands and give us few contacts. We have a LOT of new folks that are getting into the different contests and we're in hopes that they'll try the "Skirmish" too. One of our friends from the 070 PODXS - Steve, W3HF said it like this, "This is a digital version of CQ's WPX contest, with a few variations. Lots of digital modes count, not just PSK, so you can play around with some of those other modes you dabbled in last weekend with 070's Flavors contest. Like CQ's contest, the multipliers are the unique prefixes you work. As Steve told you what's neat about this contest is that it allows you to try several modes of operation: PSK, RTTY, KELL, MFSK, MT63, THROB, ASCII, SSTV AND PACKET. SPECIAL NOTE TO OPERATORS: You can submit more than one mode. These must be separate entries and NOT combined! 'Sub' modes of the parent mode all count as one mode. i.e. PSK includes PSK10, PSK31, PSK63. RTY includes 60 wpm and 100wpm. MFSK includes OLIVIA. etc. Please, submit OnLine Score Submission Form for each separate parent mode. This is our final contest for the 2006/2007 contest season. This contest will determine who will be crowned as TARA's Digital King/Queen and take top honors in the TARA Digital Tour'ney! Full rules for the contest can be found on TARA's web site at: _http://www.n2ty.http://www.nhttp://wwhttp://www_ (http://www.n2ty.org/seasons/tara_dpx_rules.html) SIDE NOTE: For you PREFIX HUNTERS out there this contest surely will allow you to pick up a few new prefixes, so come join the fun! Have Fun and I hope to print you... de NY2U Bill Eddy [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [digitalradio] protocol for cq
I think this is a great idea for all digital modes. I did a prototype in gmfsk of "Vaisual CQ" and I think it is more useful than the visual mode ID that many digimode programs now sport. I don't know how well it would work for JT65a if the goal is readability into the noise, but with PSK, it worked pretty nicely. I hope to modify the modeid postamble in fldigi to do this. 73, Leigh/WA5ZNU On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 5:46 am, David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD wrote: > addendum... > > as to the special symbol in the cq message, this would > allow you to tell if a station is calling cq, without having > to click and decode... > > sort of like how distinctive a cq message is in cw, or ryry > sounds like in rtty. > > david/wd4kpd
Re: [digitalradio] WSJT recompile
Not from here, Leigh, other than to add that it seems to make sense to create a version that is more applicable to HF requirements. Nothing wrong with that at all. Thanks for the effort; should be interesting. Howard W6IDS Richmond, IN - Original Message - From: Leigh L Klotz, Jr. To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: [digitalradio] WSJT recompile I am working on recompiling WSJT, as I mentioned to Cesco. I have got it down to one unsatisfied link error, probably due to compiler version skew (gmttime_ in Audio.so). >SNIP< >SNIP<
Re: [digitalradio] JT65 "Flatten Spectrum" Option
Andy, I dunno about that. It all depends on whether or not your flattened spectra lasted for more than four hours! Howard W6IDS Richmond, IN - Original Message - From: Andrew O'Brien To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] JT65 "Flatten Spectrum" Option Yes, I noticed my spectra was flattened . I was hoping it would not cause my wife to leave me and...oh wait, wrong subject. Seriously, I did some Spectra testing last night and found turning it off solved the problem. Then this morning I received a message "Unable to allocate a bivariate polynomial for factorization". That sounds more painful that a flattened spectra. >SNIP< >SNIP<
[digitalradio] protocol for cq
addendum... as to the special symbol in the cq message, this would allow you to tell if a station is calling cq, without having to click and decode... sort of like how distinctive a cq message is in cw, or ryry sounds like in rtty. david/wd4kpd
[digitalradio] protocol....cq on first only ?
well of the bat seems ok, but once the conversation starts the whole thing goes out the window. maybe better if the jt65 code would have a special symbol that would indicate a cq call. that would be up to Joe i think. david/wd4kpd
Re: [digitalradio] Meteor Scatter 50mHz
Tony 1) what frequency are you using ? 2) I have on order a SOUNDLINK card will it run that mode? --- Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Deepsearch on JT65 HF --turn it off
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 01:25:12 - "Bill McLaughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi John, > > Sure you already know this but the key was the "0 3" > > 082600 1 -14 5.2 584 3 * GM4SLV SM2LKW KP15 ? 0 3 > Hi Bill, I only started with JT65 yesterday but it didn't take me long to dig through the docs to explain this one and turn "Deep Search" off. I read through the CALL3.TXT file and think we should adapt it for our need if everyone was willing. Cheers, John GM4SLV
Re: [digitalradio] Deepsearch on JT65 HF --turn it off
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:58:01 -0500 "w6ids" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well, Bill, I'll thank you for that. It answers a nagging question. > I've seen instances where I've seen myself being called by a > number of stations over time periodically.and I wasn't even > keying the rig. Can you explain what is happening - I DID have > Deep Search ON as I recall. Only recently did I switch it off. > > Howard W6IDS > Richmond, IN Hi Howard, As far as I can see the deep search function uses the CALL3.TXT file and the "MYCALL" value and tries to correlate the incoming signal with every combination of these. The one with the highest correlation factor is presented as its guess as to what the incoming signal is. This is great for decoding weak signal way down in the noise - it's always easier to hear something if you know what's been said in the first place - but since most of the people active on HF aren't already in the CALL3.TXT file you're more likely to get a false positive. This explains seeing your own station being called when you've never transmitted a picowatt of JT65A. Yours was the best correlation to the incoming data. Turning off Deep Search prevents this action. As others have mentioned overnight, a dedicated HF "CALL3.TXT" should allow us to use this feature. All that needs to be done is for active users to start with a blank CALL3.TXT file and add stations as they are worked. That's what the "ADD" button does on the "To Radio" area. Unfortunately it seems to require a full 6 figure Locator and unless you know the operator, or exchange this information at the end of the QSO I suppose you could stick in a standard "dummy" pair of letters for the small sub-squares (what's the letters for the middle small square - we could standardize on that?)for HF we don't really need the minute accuracy of a 6-figure locator. Once people have collated their own CALL3.TXT we could share them and combine them to include all the unique callsigns from all the individual files. A small bit of excel bashing? I have found a few HF operators I've heard are actually in the existing CALL3.TXT file - so they've been active on JT65 on V/UHF (poss EME too?) for a while now, and HF is just another string to their bow. Cheers, John GM4SLV
