Re: [digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Leskep]

Hi Dmitry
My apologies for the wrong information
Les VK2DSG


From: dmitry_d2d 
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 5:40 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM


Hi Les, Rick and all.

About prices of RFSM-8000.
I'm sorry, but Les was wrote incorrect information.
In January, we offer special low prices.
Price of FULL Featured (with Mail-Server) version is 60 USD (only for 
HAMs).
Mail-Client version is unavailable.
And, we think, this action (special low prices for HAMs) will be 
continued - in February and more.
Please, see our web-page for last correct information:
http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru

73,
Dmitry (RFSM-IDE Group). 



 

[digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[dmitry_d2d]

Hi Les, Rick and all.

About prices of RFSM-8000.
I'm sorry, but Les was wrote incorrect information.
In January, we offer special low prices.
Price of FULL Featured (with Mail-Server) version is 60 USD (only for 
HAMs).
Mail-Client version is unavailable.
And, we think, this action (special low prices for HAMs) will be 
continued - in February and more.
Please, see our web-page for last correct information:
http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru

73,
Dmitry (RFSM-IDE Group). 

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Leskep]

Hi Rick
Unfortunately - you are right 
Les VK2DSG


From: Rick 
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:00 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM


Hi Les,

While any of us could use the trial product, there are many other 
competing interests to work with these days and it is difficult to spend 
much time with something that is unlikely to be a successful product in 
ham radio. Even if hams could use the modem in the text digital portions 
of the bands here in the U.S. and even if it was free and supported, it 
might still languish. But if it carries a cost, it will almost certainly 
not succeed. The world has changed so much, even in the past couple of 
years. I have seen superb programs discontinued or released into the 
public domain because no one would buy them anymore. From what I can 
tell, the RFSM product seems like a very good one, but may be more of a 
commercial product.

There are a few hams, but I suspect a decreasing number, who will pay 
money for certain kinds of programs, particularly logging programs that 
they have bought into years ago and want to continue using because they 
are familiar with them. But other software authors such as Dave 
Bernstein, have made that quite unnecessary with the DX Lab Suite. Same 
with Patrick"s mostly free Multipsk, and same for Simon's HRD/DM780 
programs. Now we have VBDigi/Flarq, EasyPal, WinDRM, and so many others 
that do specific tasks.

The important thing to keep in mind is not what I would pay for certain 
kinds of software, but what will the other hams pay. Even if I valued 
RFSM8000 as the best product in its niche, and right now that seems 
true, what really matters is will other hams in my area and region be 
willing to buy this product?

I will wager than none will. None at all.

And if a good sized number do not have this modem, then my modem will be 
of no value. It is difficult enough now to make contacts with many of 
the new modes because we are spread into such specialized niches. It has 
gotten to the point that some of us have to resort to the internet to 
coordinate contacts:(

If I want to use this technology for emergency communications as well as 
for fun and enjoyment, it has to be open source or at least freely 
available so that enough users will at least consider it. Even then the 
choices are becoming quite intimidating to new entrants into digital 
radio. And then consider what most digital hams use for their digital 
modes? Mostly PSK31, SSTV, and RTTY and not much else as a percentage of 
digital activity.

73,

Rick, KV9U

Re: [digitalradio] Setting up FDMDV

[Jose A. Amador]

Similar hardware here, set up in a different fashion.

Onboard AC97 for mic input and TX output

Creative Audigy 2 for RX input and speaker out.

Needs a trick to mute the input RX audio using the effects menu.

You must mute the line input to the soundcard mix, or you will get
the received, undecoded carriers noise mixed with the decoded output.
That can be programmed as a "special effect" on the Audigy menu. I got 
the idea from the Spectrum Lab docs.

73,

Jose, CO2JA

---

Kevin O'Rorke wrote:

> Hello All
> I have installed fdmdv_6_jan .
> All seemed to set up ok.
> I have 2 sound cards. Realtek ac97 on board which i have set for RX in 
> and TX out, and USB Creative SB Extigy forVoice in and Voice out.
> If I put the mute right down I get random bits of voice sounding "gunk", 
> so that side of things seem to be ok, and also the W/F is active.
> On transmit there is being transmitted. a fairly high pitched garbage, 
> all the time. and although the CRO display indicates plenty of audio 
> from the microphone, the sound of the garbage does not vary nor does its 
> amplitude.
> I have no one locally to experiment with.
> Is what I am seeing and hearing normal?
> 
> Kevin
> VK5OA


__

Participe en Universidad 2008.
11 al 15 de febrero del 2008.
Palacio de las Convenciones, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba
http://www.universidad2008.cu

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Rick]

Hi Les,

While any of us could use the trial product, there are many other 
competing interests to work with these days and it is difficult to spend 
much time with something that  is unlikely to be a successful product in 
ham radio. Even if hams could use the modem in the text digital portions 
of the bands here in the U.S. and even if it was free and supported, it 
might still languish. But if it carries a cost, it will almost certainly 
not succeed. The world has changed so much, even in the past couple of 
years. I have seen superb programs discontinued or released into the 
public domain because no one would buy them anymore. From what I can 
tell, the RFSM product seems like a very good one, but may be more of a 
commercial product.

There are a few hams, but I suspect a decreasing number, who will pay 
money for certain kinds of programs, particularly logging programs that 
they have bought into years ago and want to continue using because they 
are familiar with them. But other software authors such as Dave 
Bernstein, have made that quite unnecessary with the DX Lab Suite. Same 
with Patrick"s mostly free Multipsk, and same for Simon's HRD/DM780 
programs. Now we have VBDigi/Flarq, EasyPal, WinDRM, and so many others 
that do specific tasks.

The important thing to keep in mind is not what I would pay for certain 
kinds of software, but what will the other hams pay. Even if I valued 
RFSM8000 as the best product in its niche, and right now that seems 
true, what really matters is will other hams in my area and region be 
willing to buy this product?

I will wager than none will. None at all.

And if a good sized number do not have this modem, then my modem will be 
of no value. It is difficult enough now to make contacts with many of 
the new modes because we are spread into such specialized niches. It has 
gotten to the point that some of us have to resort to the internet to 
coordinate contacts:(

If I want to use this technology for emergency communications as well as 
for fun and enjoyment, it has to be open source or at least freely 
available so that enough users will at least consider it. Even then the 
choices are becoming quite intimidating to new entrants into digital 
radio. And then consider what most digital hams use for their digital 
modes? Mostly PSK31, SSTV, and RTTY and not much else as a percentage of 
digital activity.

73,

Rick, KV9U


Leskep wrote:
> Hi Rick
> You could get the Free RADIOAMATEUR Trial Test version [for 30 day trial]
> and do some experiments with that in the higher bands - this will allow you 
> to
> experiment up to 8000 bits per second in wide bandwidth or up to  bits 
> per
> second in normal SSB bandwidth on HF
>
> You should run a Sample rate test program like CheckSR etc at the sample 
> rate of 48k
> and then enter these figures in the program under 
> Options/Preferences/Hardware -
> good transfer speeds will still depend on BOTH  ends having calibrated 
> correctly
>
> If you do try the TRIAL software  you will find that there are MANY other 
> options
> available to you to use like Waterfall - Email Client - Beacon - Unconnected 
> chat
> between like stations - compression - File transfer RESUME  if file 
> uncompleted
> at last session and other things
>
> Now to sum things up
>
> Amateurs have the Freeware version .498 to use at no cost for file transfer
> and local mail at a speed of up to 2666 bits per second
>
> If you want a permanent Mail-Client version of RFSM8000 it costs $60 US
>
> If you want to be a Mail Server Current price is $180 US
>
> [This is the only issue I have with the pricing - in order to encourage
> the use I believe the Server software should be available at no cost
> to a few SELECTED stations in various countries who would be
> interested in supplying the Server facilities for others to use - remember
> that this is an ongoing cost the them to supply these facilities to
> other amateurs]
>
> There are many other amateur software writers wanting $50 US for their 
> software
> so I guess inflation has caught up in the requirement for $60 for this 
> program - hihi
> I also realise that there are many other Amateur writers that supply their 
> software
> for FREE and I applaud this - what would all of us retired amateurs do to 
> keep
> our minds active if we didnt have all these things to do and toys to play 
> with
>
> Yes there are groups here in VK  testing RFSM8000 on VHF but I have no 
> reports
> on hand regarding this at the moment
>
> Les VK2DSG
>
>   

Re: [digitalradio] Setting up FDMDV

[Andrew O'Brien]

Kevin,

I have essentially the same set-up, almost same soundcards, I use for
AC97 RX input and TX Output.  I use the Creative Audigy  soundcard for
Voice Input and Voice Outpt .I do NOT get any high pitched noise when
I transmit .  I wonder if this is some sort of feedback you are
getting.



On Jan 26, 2008 8:18 PM, Kevin O'Rorke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hello All
> I have installed fdmdv_6_jan .
> All seemed to set up ok.
> I have 2 sound cards. Realtek ac97 on board which i have set for RX in
> and TX out, and USB Creative SB Extigy forVoice in and Voice out.
> If I put the mute right down I get random bits of voice sounding "gunk",
> so that side of things seem to be ok, and also the W/F is active.
> On transmit there is being transmitted. a fairly high pitched garbage,
> all the time. and although the CRO display indicates plenty of audio
> from the microphone, the sound of the garbage does not vary nor does its
> amplitude.
> I have no one locally to experiment with.
> Is what I am seeing and hearing normal?
>
> Kevin
> VK5OA
> 



-- 
Andy K3UK
www.obriensweb.com
(QSL via N2RJ)

[digitalradio] Setting up FDMDV

[Kevin O'Rorke]

Hello All
I have installed fdmdv_6_jan .
All seemed to set up ok.
I have 2 sound cards. Realtek ac97 on board which i have set for RX in 
and TX out, and USB Creative SB Extigy forVoice in and Voice out.
If I put the mute right down I get random bits of voice sounding "gunk", 
so that side of things seem to be ok, and also the W/F is active.
On transmit there is being transmitted. a fairly high pitched garbage, 
all the time. and although the CRO display indicates plenty of audio 
from the microphone, the sound of the garbage does not vary nor does its 
amplitude.
I have no one locally to experiment with.
Is what I am seeing and hearing normal?

Kevin
VK5OA

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Leskep]

Hi Rick
see  comments below  5 spaces in
Les VK2DSG


From: Rick
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:38 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM


I was using the 10/Nov/07BETA of EasyPal which I downloaded fairly
recently. I noticed that there are images that are sent with an RS 1
through 4 and then I think it converts them to jpg? I could not open
those files with other programs. Perhaps you an give us some tutorial on
it. The RS turned out to be Reed-Solomon coding so at least we know what
is being used.

 Always use the latest from the KC1CS site
 You cannot Open an .rsx file - it is the means to transfer the file 
encoded
  and is automatically displayed in its original form at the receiving 
end

Since it was the first time I ever tried EasyPal for transmitting, I
don't have much background on this. I don't have a lot of interest in
SSTV, per se, but I am using image as a surrogate for the data that I
would rather be sending.

 EasyPal may be used for normal data transfer by loading as an ANYFILE
 but of course this is limited by the file size and the length of time 
to
 to transfer it depending on the mode and conditions existing at the 
time

Because of an active group here in the
midwestern part of the U.S. on daytime 40 meter SSTV (7173 kHz) I will
sometimes leave SSTV programs on the frequency and automatically receive
some of the images when signals are good.

When you use the repeater function does that work with one to many as in
nets? Or is that intended for one to one?

 Yes it is one to many - each station individually asking for any
 corrections to the original transmission by the repeater

Can you send chat along with the image? Or at least send chat in between
images?

 You can sent chat by Waterfall text or you can directly send a text 
message
  in a separate screen   --- ActionSend text

I did not change anything for conditions and used whatever the defaults
are. What are some of the options that you recommend?

 See prior post

Based upon the conditions, and my experience with receiving (not
transmitting) DRM type of OFDM data, the roughly 1/6 throughput seems
about right. When conditions are very good, such as NVIS daytime on 40
meters or close to NVIS anyway, with maybe 5 or 6 S units between the
noise and the signal, it is posible to receive the majority of the
packets (blocks) on the first try.

Use the correct mode and always use encoding suitable for the noise on
the path

The question becomes: if you had two modems, one using single tone high
baud rate vs. one using multi tone OFDM, which one would perform the
best in varying conditions.

  Maybe the answer is to have available BOTH  and use the one which is
 most suitable at the time to suit the conditions

Various documents on the internet suggest that there is not much
difference, but there is at least one that does show a difference with
computer simulations in favor of the multi tone modems. I tend to
discount computer simulations as not adequate and prefer the real world
under many different conditions that gives you a more accurate practical
feel for what can and can not be done. That same document, done as a PhD
paper, admitted that some waveforms that worked well on computer
simulation, actually did not work at all in an actual real world test.

73,

Rick, KV9U

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Leskep]

Hi Rick
You could get the Free RADIOAMATEUR Trial Test version [for 30 day trial]
and do some experiments with that in the higher bands - this will allow you 
to
experiment up to 8000 bits per second in wide bandwidth or up to  bits 
per
second in normal SSB bandwidth on HF

You should run a Sample rate test program like CheckSR etc at the sample 
rate of 48k
and then enter these figures in the program under 
Options/Preferences/Hardware -
good transfer speeds will still depend on BOTH  ends having calibrated 
correctly

If you do try the TRIAL software  you will find that there are MANY other 
options
available to you to use like Waterfall - Email Client - Beacon - Unconnected 
chat
between like stations - compression - File transfer RESUME  if file 
uncompleted
at last session and other things

Now to sum things up

Amateurs have the Freeware version .498 to use at no cost for file transfer
and local mail at a speed of up to 2666 bits per second

If you want a permanent Mail-Client version of RFSM8000 it costs $60 US

If you want to be a Mail Server Current price is $180 US

[This is the only issue I have with the pricing - in order to encourage
the use I believe the Server software should be available at no cost
to a few SELECTED stations in various countries who would be
interested in supplying the Server facilities for others to use - remember
that this is an ongoing cost the them to supply these facilities to
other amateurs]

There are many other amateur software writers wanting $50 US for their 
software
so I guess inflation has caught up in the requirement for $60 for this 
program - hihi
I also realise that there are many other Amateur writers that supply their 
software
for FREE and I applaud this - what would all of us retired amateurs do to 
keep
our minds active if we didnt have all these things to do and toys to play 
with

Yes there are groups here in VK  testing RFSM8000 on VHF but I have no 
reports
on hand regarding this at the moment

Les VK2DSG


From: Rick
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 2:16 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM


Hi Les,

This was the first time I could get anyone to even try the mode as I
have been attempting that for some time. From what I can tell, you need
to be connected in order to do much with the mode to really do any kind
of testing other than perhaps calling a "dummy" station.

In regard to your questions:

1. I may have an older version, but I don't find a sound card offset in
the Options. My sound card has been extremely accurate (Sound Blaster
Live!) when tested with other programs and can be within a Hz or two.

2. The sampling rate is set to 48000.



3. My main interest is having very robust modes that work at the highest
possible speed under the most difficult conditions. I have spent
considerable time sifting through the materials found on the internet on
STANAG modems (I will use the term STANAG as a short form of what is a
large number of different modems) and from the published information,
the throughput drops off rapidly when you go below zero dB S/N. The
throughput last night did not really quite meet those expectations, but
this may be due to other factors, such as insufficient computing power
or the software modem not being able to match the multi thousand dollar
STANAG modems. At least that seems reasonable to me, otherwise, why
would governments spend the astronomical amounts of money for such modems?

Having said that, my inside information from those who actually use
these modems for government/military use, find that they don't work
quite as impressively as the advertising might suggest.

But at least we are getting a taste of what we can expect from this kind
of technology. Perhaps others may have more information to compare the
relative performance of the software modems of various types?

Also, have you tried these modems on VHF? Here in the U.S. we can use
them above 50 MHz, and I think we can mix and match modes there as well.
I have not found anyone to test this with my mediocre 6 meter antenna,
but I just realized that this may actual work dramatically faster than
NBEMS.

If Skip, KH6TY is reading this, perhaps he can comment.

73,

Rick, KV9U

[digitalradio] Thank you

[Barry Mertz]

Thanks Guys you learn something new every day I thank you

Gunny KC8SXG Barry

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM (Easypal)

[Leskep]

Hi Andrew
Everyone really should only now use EasyPal instead of Hampal and always the
latest from the KC1CS  site

EasyPal can  work in a sort of ARQ manner if one or all of the stations
has the following options ticked
Under Action --- Use Repeater

To work as a Repeater ONE station should set the program up as a Repeater
Under Repeater ---Activate as a base Repeater

By using this method the station working the Repeater can
send a file to the Repeater - which will automatically ask
for a BSR if required or it will say File ok if it is received correctly

The receiving station can ask for the file to be replayed if required
Any non repeater station can ask for a Directory from the Repeater
listing all the files in the Repeater directory and download the required 
file

There is also a facility to Upload Messages/files to the Repeater
directory automatically by clicking Repeater/File is saved to external 
"Repeater"
[retick each time]
When this is used the transmitted file will be automatically sent
to the Repeater Folder
Any other station may then download that file -after getting a Directory 
from
the Repeater - You can even address that file when uploaded to a specific 
station
who can Delete that file after receiving it

It should be understood that MANY stations can take their turn at either
sending files or just pictures to the repeater or downloading files/pictures
from the repeater -
When setup like this there is absolutely no need for anyone to be in 
attendance
at the Repeater - it will do it all automatically when queries/requests are 
sent by
a remote station

When using EasyPal you should always check to see that you use the
mode which is most suited to the path at the time of the day
A modes generally on very quiet bands VHF ETC
B modes on 20/30 m and above - Sometimes you may get away using slower A 
modes
E modes generally on 40m and 80 m
See under Action / Quick select TX mode for recommendations

You should always use the RS encoding system in the program
Encode 1,2,3,4
Select the encode to suit the conditions

There is more that the program is and will be capable of doing but I
hope this will answer some questions posed by some on todays email

VK2DSG  Les





From: Andrew O'Brien
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:43 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM (Easypal)


Les. I used the very latest version of Easypal but used the default
settings for our quick test last night. I am an experienced user of
Hampal, and even with that software there are a lot of useful features
not always employed. You are right to point out the features of
Easypal , I hope more people will use this software. As Rick
mentioned , it would be interesting if something like Easypal had an
option to fill the errors automatically on-the-fly in typical ARQ
style. Just an option for people to try, the standard BSR/FIX method
is useful for many other aspects of file transfers.

Andy K3UK

[digitalradio] FDMDV this afternoon...

[Jose A. Amador]

Copied XE1RK very well, SNR between 9 and 12 dB, no interruptions at 
all. He was in QSO with some W0 I did not hear AT ALL.

73,

Jose, CO2JA

__

Participe en Universidad 2008.
11 al 15 de febrero del 2008.
Palacio de las Convenciones, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba
http://www.universidad2008.cu

Re: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports

[Loyd Headrick]

check out this link 
  
http://www.serialgear.com/4-Port-Serial-USB.html
   
  
Barry Mertz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Questions: I am using an old IBM with Windows 98 operating system. 
The 
computer has two usb ports and one DB9 serial port. This is what I want 
to hook up. An MFJ-1275 sound card adapter. I also want to run HAM 
Radio Deluxe and control to radios with the CAT interface. A Yaesu FT-
920 HF and a FT-847 both is CAT capable. 

I would like to study

CAT on the 920 & 847 two serial reports required I have one on the 
computer?
MFJ-1275 to be used on both radios I am thinking a Patch Bay. I will 
move the cables if needed.

I have allot of items that require a serial port and only one, a switch 
to switch the Items to the one port. Or is there a better way. 

Can someone help the old "Gunny" KC8SXG Barry 



 


  Loyd C.Headrick K4LCH
   
  http://k4lch.info
  http://www.tagskywarn.org
  http://www.w4am.org
   
   


   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[digitalradio] Re: rfsm-2400

[rod hart]

The market will determine if the price of the product is correct. If it is
over priced no one will buy it. I only feel sorry for the guys who have'nt
made money from their ham related projects (i.e. Charles Brain, Bob Bruninga
and others).

 

Rod Hart WA3MEZ

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Rick]

Upon reading the RFSM site information, it looks like they are not going 
to do further development on RFSM2400 and they indicate that there are 
bugs that they corrected when they continued on with development of the 
8000 program.

If they are actually able to sell the program to make it worthwhile 
enough to them to continue, especially for commercial use, then they may 
be able to do OK. But I don't see their product moving forward for ham 
use from this point on. It should have engendered some excitement 
considering that it was a breakthrough type of product, but I have not 
seen any real enthusiasm from hams, even hams outside the U.S. who can 
actually use this mode for text data as well as image.

I am surprised that your performance was not that good on VHF where I 
would have expected it to do the best.

73,

Rick, KV9U



Howard Brown wrote:
> GM Rick,
>
> Several months ago I did some testing on HF with RFSM2400.
> We were able to transfer 4000 character files in ~40 secs. This
> is similar to what Les was able to achieve.  Conditions were excellent
> then.  Recently I was able to test with Chuck, AA5J on VHF and
> this time the throughput was similar to your numbers even though
> we had good signal conditions. I realize this does not clarify the
> throughput ability but it does show that it can achieve high speeds
> under certain conditions. I still do not know how deep in the mud
> it will go and still work.
>
> Regarding the tuning; we were able to achieve connects by tuning
> the transceiver dial to the point where the initial sync burst lined up
> with the red line in the 'Tuning to Signal' window during a connect.
>
> We tested the 3 khz wide mode and then the 2.4 khz mode.  We
> were able to get more throughput on the narrower mode.  I think
> this just says our SSB filters were not handling the wider mode well.
> No doubt we could have changed to wider filters (or FM mode) and
> gotten better results.
>
> I think the developers were up front that they would eventually
> charge for the package.  I was surprised by the price too. It could
> be worth it if the FCC allows the higher rate, and if many people
> are using the software.  There may be some competition if the ALE
> folks get something in place that is easy to use. I would love to see
> this mode in NBEMS for file transfer operations.
>
> Howard K5HB

Re: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports

[David Struebel]

You can get a USB to RS-232 serial adaptor that will allow you (if you get two 
of them) to have up to 3 Rs-232 serial ports

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: Barry Mertz 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:06 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports


  Questions: I am using an old IBM with Windows 98 operating system. The 
  computer has two usb ports and one DB9 serial port. This is what I want 
  to hook up. An MFJ-1275 sound card adapter. I also want to run HAM 
  Radio Deluxe and control to radios with the CAT interface. A Yaesu FT-
  920 HF and a FT-847 both is CAT capable. 

  I would like to study

  CAT on the 920 & 847 two serial reports required I have one on the 
  computer?
  MFJ-1275 to be used on both radios I am thinking a Patch Bay. I will 
  move the cables if needed.

  I have allot of items that require a serial port and only one, a switch 
  to switch the Items to the one port. Or is there a better way. 

  Can someone help the old "Gunny" KC8SXG Barry 



   


--


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
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7:44 PM

[digitalradio] Updated : K3UK Quick and Dirty Guide to Narrow-Band SSTV

[Andrew O'Brien]

Thanks.  I have updated the guide, revised version is at

http://www.obriensweb.com/narrowsstv.htm

On Jan 26, 2008 2:48 PM, Gary Mackey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Andy -
>
> Great quick start guide. It's been a number of year since I operated SSTV
> and now I'm configured and ready to make a few QSO's on 30m SSTV.
>
> 73,
> ...Gary 



-- 
Andy K3UK
www.obriensweb.com
(QSL via N2RJ)

Re: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports

[Dave 'Doc' Corio]

Most of the on-line tech stores, such as Amazon.com or buy.com have 
multi-port cards available at a decent price. If you have a PCI slot 
available in the computer, this is one option. I paid $19 for the card 
I'm using, and it provides 4 serial ports via a connector that splits 
out to 4 DB-9 jacks. The medusa cable was included with the card, too!

73 es GL
Dave
KB3MOW


Barry Mertz wrote:
>
> Questions: I am using an old IBM with Windows 98 operating system. The
> computer has two usb ports and one DB9 serial port. This is what I want
> to hook up. An MFJ-1275 sound card adapter. I also want to run HAM
> Radio Deluxe and control to radios with the CAT interface. A Yaesu FT-
> 920 HF and a FT-847 both is CAT capable.
>
> I would like to study
>
> CAT on the 920 & 847 two serial reports required I have one on the
> computer?
> MFJ-1275 to be used on both radios I am thinking a Patch Bay. I will
> move the cables if needed.
>
> I have allot of items that require a serial port and only one, a switch
> to switch the Items to the one port. Or is there a better way.
>
> Can someone help the old "Gunny" KC8SXG Barry
>
> 
> 
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: 1/26/2008 
> 3:45 PM
>   

[digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[mikenetbot]

Sorry about the line breaks...note to self, don't trust the post preview 
function. 

What I forgot to mention here is that when the adaptive equalizer models the 
channel, we 
can use that information for more than just equalizing the channel. Most 
current ARQ 
modes make a decision if the channel is good or bad and adjust their modulation 
in a 1-
dimensional manner(good->up, bad->down). If we observe the channel model from 
the 
adaptive equalizer, we can decide how much multipath, noise, fading, selective 
fading, etc 
the channel has. We can then select a modulation that is optimal along each of 
those 
dimensions. I don't know how much of advantage this is over the 1-dimensional 
model(it 
would certainly need much more tuning and testing), but it is interesting. If 
nothing else, 
we could build one killer propagation analyzer into the receiver. 

> So I'm not sure what we could achieve if we willy nilly started to strap 
> adaptive 
equalizers 
> to PTMs. The PTMs may have to be modified to transmit a training signal, so 
> the 
receivers 
> have something definite(and quick!) to model with, rather than a slow 
> adaptive 
equalizer 
> that simply guesses at the received signal. On the other hand, PTMs tend to 
> naturally be 
> far more multipath tolerant, so it's likely we'd have to dedicate less of the 
> transmitted 
> signal energy to the training signal. What's ideal needs some simulation and 
> real over 
the 
> air testing. Heck, we should let a computer search for the right combination 
> of baud, 
> tones, and power dedicated to training data over a wide variety of 
> conditions. Pick a 
small 
> set of winners for varying band conditions, and some synchronous(but slow 
> enough for 
PC 
> s) ARQ, and bam, you got yourself a data mode :).

[digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[mikenetbot]

When I first started poking around, I found a simple comparison paper at 
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel2/672/6329/00247152.pdf . It appears to require 
an IEEE 
membership, or a university internet connection(I'm VPNed into my uni right 
now). The 
bottom of each page does say "U. S. Government work not protected by U. S. 
copyright." 
I've hated not being able to access academic papers in the past, so I'm half 
tempted to just 
observe the copyright notice and post it here. 

The problem with that comparison, and in fact many real world tests is the 
single tone 
modem(STM) ends up using adaptive equalization(the STM wouldn't work at such a 
high 
rate without it), while the parallel tone modem(PTM) doesn't. Adaptive 
equalization is the 
"secret sauce" of high speed STMs. It's what gives them their multipath 
handling ability. 
They basically model the transmission channel, find the inverse transformation, 
and de-
spread the multipath laden signal to form a clean one. In such tests, the STM 
seems to 
come out on top for anything but very local (<50km) ground paths.

PTMs inherently have multipath tolerance due to their MUCH lower baud rates. 
But there's 
nothing that says you can't strap an adaptive equalizer onto a PTM. You'd get 
natural 
multipath tolerance, along with whatever multipath correction needed to be 
performed. 
Most current PTM modems ignore multipath all together, and late signal is lost 
at best and 
causes intersymbol interference at worst. Adding an adaptive equalizer would 
allow PTMs 
to recover this late signal energy along with further reducing ISI. So we'd 
have the secret 
sauce adaptive equalizer, along with natural multipath tolerance, instead of 
just one or the 
other.

It appears that the ham OFDM modes DO include adaptive equalizers(at least, 
WINDRM 
does). I'm not that familiar with DRM, so I'm not sure how much of the 
transmitted signal 
is dedicated to training data(if any at all). Most STMs dedicate a large 
portion of the 
transmitted signal to keeping the receiver's equalizer up to date. Other modes 
that weren't 
designed for adaptive equalization simply use the FEC of the transmitted signal 
to guess 
at the actual transmitted signal, which is then used to train the equalizer. 
Here in the US, 
the ATSC digital television standard uses extremely simple 
modulation(8VSB)...if you sent 
an analog TV transmitter an 8-level voltage signal with a little filtering, 
you'd have an 8VSB 
transmitter. The first generation receivers were horrible with multipath 
handling, but as 
time went on, adaptive equalizer chipsets got better and better and were 
"strapped on" to 
the standard. I have a little HD receiver for my laptop with a fairly recent 
chipset/equalizer. I can receive a perfect copy of the signal in a metal-walled 
narrow 
dorm room(structurally similar to a prison cell, although far more pleasant). 
Yet if 
someone walks around the room, the signal will drop completely. For all I can 
tell, the 
signal got stronger as the person moved, but the equalizer has to sit there for 
2-3 
seconds trying to retrain itself. And sure enough, 2-3 seconds later, I'm back 
to perfect 
copy again. 

So I'm not sure what we could achieve if we willy nilly started to strap 
adaptive equalizers 
to PTMs. The PTMs may have to be modified to transmit a training signal, so the 
receivers 
have something definite(and quick!) to model with, rather than a slow adaptive 
equalizer 
that simply guesses at the received signal. On the other hand, PTMs tend to 
naturally be 
far more multipath tolerant, so it's likely we'd have to dedicate less of the 
transmitted 
signal energy to the training signal. What's ideal needs some simulation and 
real over the 
air testing. Heck, we should let a computer search for the right combination of 
baud, 
tones, and power dedicated to training data over a wide variety of conditions. 
Pick a small 
set of winners for varying band conditions, and some synchronous(but slow 
enough for PC 
s) ARQ, and bam, you got yourself a data mode :).

Mike
KF6EYU

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The question becomes: if you had two modems, one using single tone high 
> baud rate vs. one using multi tone OFDM, which one would perform the 
> best in varying conditions.
> 
> Various documents on the internet suggest that there is not much 
> difference, but there is at least one that does show a difference with 
> computer simulations in favor of the multi tone modems. I tend to 
> discount computer simulations as not adequate and prefer the real world 
> under many different conditions that gives you a more accurate practical 
> feel for what can and can not be done. That same document, done as a PhD 
> paper, admitted that some waveforms that worked well on computer 
> simulation, actually did not work at all in an actual real world test.

RE: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports

[Mark T. Regan, K8MTR]

If you have a spare slot in the PC, you can always purchase a dual-port serial 
card. That's what I did for my WinXP PC that came
with no serial ports. They are fairly inexpensive now days. A check at 
CompUSA's web site turned up a 4-port board for $44.99 (Item
Number: C250-2276), along with several others that were available.

Mark Regan, K8MTR
CTO1 USNR-Ret. 1969-1991
"America does not end at its borders. Where there is an American, there is 
America."

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry 
Mertz
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 13:06
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports

Questions: I am using an old IBM with Windows 98 operating system. The 
computer has two usb ports and one DB9 serial port. This is what I want 
to hook up. An MFJ-1275 sound card adapter. I also want to run HAM 
Radio Deluxe and control to radios with the CAT  interface. A Yaesu FT-
920 HF and a FT-847 both is CAT capable. 

I would like to study

CAT on the 920 & 847 two serial reports required I have one on the 
computer?

MFJ-1275 to be used on both radios I am thinking a Patch Bay. I will 
move the cables if  needed.

I have allot of items that require a serial port and only one, a switch 
to switch the Items to the one port. Or is there a better way. 

Can someone help the old "Gunny"  KC8SXG Barry 

Re: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports

[Phil Barnett]

On Saturday 26 January 2008 01:06:20 pm Barry Mertz wrote:
> Questions: I am using an old IBM with Windows 98 operating system. The
> computer has two usb ports and one DB9 serial port. This is what I want
> to hook up. An MFJ-1275 sound card adapter. I also want to run HAM
> Radio Deluxe and control to radios with the CAT  interface. A Yaesu FT-
> 920 HF and a FT-847 both is CAT capable.
>
> I would like to study
>
> CAT on the 920 & 847 two serial reports required I have one on the
> computer?
> MFJ-1275 to be used on both radios I am thinking a Patch Bay. I will
> move the cables if  needed.
>
> I have allot of items that require a serial port and only one, a switch
> to switch the Items to the one port. Or is there a better way.
>
> Can someone help the old "Gunny"  KC8SXG Barry

These work great and can be found for little money on auctions.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lava-DSerial-Dual-Serial-Port-9pin-16550-PCI-Card_W0QQitemZ320212231658QQihZ011QQcategoryZ41995QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[digitalradio] psk31 help

[Andrew O'Brien]

We have several new members that state theY are new to digital modes 
and are looking to start with PSK31 .  I  just want to remind new 
digital hams that any questions are welcome here.  If you need help, 
ask the group.

Andy K3UK

Re: [digitalradio] rfsm-2400

[Darko]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:15:58 +0100, Simon Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is anyone interested in writing a GPL / Open Source implementation of the
> protocol in C++? Not a full UI, just the rx / tx logic?

I hope youll find some programmer for your idea.
What about this:
http://open5066.org/wiki/

Im not programmer but is there and soft modem included ?

73 !

Darko
9A3LI




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[digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports

[Barry Mertz]

Questions: I am using an old IBM with Windows 98 operating system. The 
computer has two usb ports and one DB9 serial port. This is what I want 
to hook up. An MFJ-1275 sound card adapter. I also want to run HAM 
Radio Deluxe and control to radios with the CAT  interface. A Yaesu FT-
920 HF and a FT-847 both is CAT capable. 

I would like to study

CAT on the 920 & 847 two serial reports required I have one on the 
computer?
MFJ-1275 to be used on both radios I am thinking a Patch Bay. I will 
move the cables if  needed.

I have allot of items that require a serial port and only one, a switch 
to switch the Items to the one port. Or is there a better way. 

Can someone help the old "Gunny"  KC8SXG Barry 

[digitalradio] Re: New Yahoo Group "pactor_packet

[Demetre Valaris]

Hi again,

If you wish to join this group please follow this link: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pactor_packet/join

73 de Demetre SV1UY

Re: [digitalradio] Re: General questions about SSTV/Quick Guide

[Leigh L Klotz, Jr.]

And fldigi.
Leigh/WA5ZNU
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 9:12 am, Andrew O'Brien wrote:
> MFSK16 with pictures.  Multipsk and Mixw allow for a digital QSO with
> MFSK16 and switch to a narrow mode picture transfer method when the
> users decide.

Re: [digitalradio] Re: General questions about SSTV/Quick Guide

[Simon Brown]

I see some use of MixW here, also little talk on the SSTV 20m frequency 
14.230.

DM780 coming along well with analogue SSTV support, crashing merrily at the 
moment :-(

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> I have had the same experience as Rick, some helpful hams but some
> grumpy hams on the usual SSTV frequencies.  Also, too much talking.
> Like,  one picture sent and 5 minutes of chit-cat. Like some of the
> less-used digital modes, SSTV is only used by a small amount of hams,
> and you tend to run in to the same few hams over and over again.

[digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Andrew O'Brien]

I was using the DECEEMBER full release.

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I was using the 10/Nov/07BETA of EasyPal which I downloaded fairly 
> recently. I noticed that there are images that are sent with an RS 
1 
> through 4 and then I think it converts them to jpg? I could not 
open 
> those files with other programs. Perhaps you an give us some 
tutorial on 
> it. The RS turned out to be Reed-Solomon coding so at least we know 
what 
> is being used.
> 
> Since it was the first time I ever tried EasyPal for transmitting, 
I 
> don't have much background on this. I don't have a lot of interest 
in 
> SSTV, per se, but I am using image as a surrogate for the data that 
I 
> would rather be sending. Because of an active group here in the 
> midwestern part of the U.S. on daytime 40 meter SSTV (7173 kHz) I 
will 
> sometimes leave SSTV programs on the frequency and automatically 
receive 
> some of the images when signals are good.
> 
> When you use the repeater function does that work with one to many 
as in 
> nets? Or is that intended for one to one?
> 
> Can you send chat along with the image? Or at least send chat in 
between 
> images?
> 
> I did not change anything for conditions and used whatever the 
defaults 
> are. What are some of the options that you recommend?
> 
> Based upon the conditions, and my experience with receiving (not 
> transmitting) DRM type of OFDM data, the roughly 1/6 throughput 
seems 
> about right. When conditions are very good, such as NVIS daytime on 
40 
> meters or close to NVIS anyway, with maybe 5 or 6 S units between 
the 
> noise and the signal, it is posible to receive the majority of the 
> packets (blocks) on the first try.
> 
> The question becomes: if you had two modems, one using single tone 
high 
> baud rate vs. one using multi tone OFDM, which one would perform 
the 
> best in varying conditions.
> 
> Various documents on the internet suggest that there is not much 
> difference, but there is at least one that does show a difference 
with 
> computer simulations in favor of the multi tone modems. I tend to 
> discount computer simulations as not adequate and prefer the real 
world 
> under many different conditions that gives you a more accurate 
practical 
> feel for what can and can not be done. That same document, done as 
a PhD 
> paper, admitted that some waveforms that worked well on computer 
> simulation, actually did not work at all in an actual real world 
test.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Rick, KV9U
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leskep wrote:
> > Re EasyPal
> >  
> > Did you use the latest version from the KC1CS  site?
> >  
> > Did you use the RS encoding  which is available in the program?
> >  
> > Did you have one end in Repeater mode which would give you a Quasi
> > ARQ type system?
> >  
> > Did you use a transmission mode suitable for the band conditions 
at 
> > the time?
> >  
> > There are many features in EasyPal which which are not well 
understood 
> > by many
> >  
> > I feel you should have come up with better figures than you did 
for 
> > the tests
> > There is also a difference in transmitting  a compressed picture 
or 
> > sending
> > the file as an Anyfile which is the complete - uncompressed file
> >  
> > Les VK2DSG
> >  
> >
>

[digitalradio] Re: General questions about SSTV/Quick Guide

[Andrew O'Brien]

-I have had the same experience as Rick, some helpful hams but some 
grumpy hams on the usual SSTV frequencies.  Also, too much talking.  
Like,  one picture sent and 5 minutes of chit-cat. Like some of the 
less-used digital modes, SSTV is only used by a small amount of hams, 
and you tend to run in to the same few hams over and over again.  

With the experiments here in the past week, we can redefine the basic 
guide to SSTV. In fact, I am not sure term SLOW-SCAN fully applies 
any more.

Here is a quick view :

Wide Analogue SSTV: Exceeds 500 Hz wide and thus in th USA requires 
the frequency used to be within the portions of the bands defined 
for "image".  Most popular frequency is 14230.  Used to exchange 
pictures , operator use voice SSB on same frequency to discuss 
pictures and the mode in general . MMSTV and Multipsk are popular 
software for these modes. DM780 has a pending beta that also supports 
these modes. 

Narow Analogue SSTV.  Using SSTV modes that are less than 500 Hz 
appears to allow USA operators to utilize the the same portion of the 
bands assigned to other digital mdoes like PS31 or RTTY.  The picture 
sent is viewed as "data".  Modes such as MP73-N (found in MMSTV) are 
used with text overlays for signal reports, etc.  SSB voice 
transmissions are not used between tranfers.  Most used frequencies 
seem to be 10132 and 7077.Not sure about other countries.

MFSK16 with pictures.  Multipsk and Mixw allow for a digital QSO with 
MFSK16 and switch to a narrow mode picture transfer method when the 
users decide.  Pictures are small.  Use the same frequencies that you 
normally use MFSK16.  Try 14077, 7035, 7077.

Digital SSTV:  Easypal, Hampal and other digital SSTV applications 
transfer pictures digitally rather than analogue.  The received 
picture quality is a good as the original picture .  These 
applications use a method that has some error detection.  The sofware 
detects "segments" of a picture that are not  received fully, at the 
end of the transfer the receiving station sends a "BSR" (Bad Signal 
Report) alerting the originating station as to which segments were 
not correctly received.  The originating station then sends a "fix", 
sending just the segments the other station needed.  This software 
can also be used for general file transfers. There is quite a bit of 
activity, look first for signals on 14233. 


RSFM:  I have included this software in the discussion of SSTV 
because, like digital SSTV, it is more of a file transfer program. 
You send your pictures as a file and , if received,  the picture is 
as good as the original.   It works under the standard MIL-STD-188-
110A .  The file transfers utilize a rather broad bandwidth and also 
use a automatic error correcting method.  In the USA there are limits 
on how/where the software can be used in the amateur bands,  but 
there is much activity with this modee in Europe, Canada, and 
Australia.  

Others:  WinDRM and DigiTRX  also allow file transfers similar to 
Easypal, thus pictures can also be sent.  With WinDRM you can also 
talk via digital voice.  

Andy K3UK
-- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
> 
> The digital modes are not often mixed with analog and since the 
analog 
> were there first, they tend to use the lower frequency, 
particularly on 
> 20 meters.
> 
> Since you are quite close to me, you may find that best signals on 
40 
> meters as a good choice. The most active operator is Dave Jones, 
KB4YZ, 
> located in Indiana.
> 
> Most of operation on 40 meters is digital SSTV but some hams may 
still 
> be operating analog on 20 or other frequencies. There may be 
> Yahoogroups, but one thing about SSTV is that all the coordination 
is 
> done with voice and that probably means SSB voice most of the time, 
so 
> you can ask questions. Dave is very helpful and pleasant although I 
have 
> found some of the older hams to be a bit unpleasant with newcomers 
who 
> ask questions.
> 
> The most popular software at the moment seems to be EasyPal and 
seems to 
> have eclipsed WinDRM for digital SSTV.
> 
> I recommend Dave's site for SSTV information:
> 
> http://www.kiva.net/~djones/
> 
> Scroll down to the EasyPal (New Version) section for information 
and 
> downloads.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Rick, KV9U
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Christenson wrote:
> > Hi guys, I'm looking into SSTV. I see that popular frequencies to
> > operate it are 7171, 7173, 14230 and 14233. Are these pictures 
sent
> > using an analog or digital method? What popular software is being
> > used? Is there another Yahoo group for this? Thanks for the help. 
Bob
> > C (WU9Q)
> >
> >
>

[digitalradio] Re: Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[cesco12342000]

> I noticed that there are images that are sent with an RS 1 
> through 4 and then I think it converts them to jpg? 

The RSx files are additionally encoded. I dont remember the exact numbers 
but i think it allows 10% errors on rs1, 50% errors on rs4. You can 
actually decode an rs4 file when 50% of it is missing. I think easypal 
will do that automatically for you. 

There is an offline decoder the RS files, see KB4YZ site. BUT the 
efficiency of the offline decoder is only half as good as the easypal 
decoder because some info is missing in offline state. 

You will be able to rebuild an RS4 file with 25% missing offline, but 50% 
missing online (online is close to turbo-code performance !).



 

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Howard Brown]

GM Rick,

Several months ago I did some testing on HF with RFSM2400. 
We were able to transfer 4000 character files in ~40 secs. This 
is similar to what Les was able to achieve.  Conditions were excellent 
then.  Recently I was able to test with Chuck, AA5J on VHF and 
this time the throughput was similar to your numbers even though 
we had good signal conditions. I realize this does not clarify the
throughput ability but it does show that it can achieve high speeds 
under certain conditions. I still do not know how deep in the mud
it will go and still work.

Regarding the tuning; we were able to achieve connects by tuning
the transceiver dial to the point where the initial sync burst lined up 
with the red line in the 'Tuning to Signal' window during a connect.

We tested the 3 khz wide mode and then the 2.4 khz mode.  We
were able to get more throughput on the narrower mode.  I think
this just says our SSB filters were not handling the wider mode well.
No doubt we could have changed to wider filters (or FM mode) and
gotten better results.

I think the developers were up front that they would eventually
charge for the package.  I was surprised by the price too. It could
be worth it if the FCC allows the higher rate, and if many people 
are using the software.  There may be some competition if the ALE
folks get something in place that is easy to use. I would love to see
this mode in NBEMS for file transfer operations.

Howard K5HB

- Original Message 
From: Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 9:16:50 AM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM










  



Hi Les,



This was the first time I could get anyone to even try the mode as I 

have been attempting that for some time. From what I can tell, you need 

to be connected in order to do much with the mode to really do any kind 

of testing other than perhaps calling a "dummy" station.



In regard to your questions:



1. I may have an older version, but I don't find a sound card offset in 

the Options. My sound card has been extremely accurate (Sound Blaster 

Live!) when tested with other programs and can be within a Hz or two.



2. The sampling rate is set to 48000.



3. My main interest is having very robust modes that work at the highest 

possible speed under the most difficult conditions. I have spent 

considerable time sifting through the materials found on the internet on 

STANAG modems (I will use the term STANAG as a short form of what is a 

large number of different modems) and from the published information, 

the throughput drops off rapidly when you go below zero dB S/N. The 

throughput last night did not really quite meet those expectations, but 

this may be due to other factors, such as insufficient computing power 

or the software modem not being able to match the multi thousand dollar 

STANAG modems. At least that seems reasonable to me, otherwise, why 

would governments spend the astronomical amounts of money for such modems?



Having said that, my inside information from those who actually use 

these modems for government/military use, find that they don't work 

quite as impressively as the advertising might suggest.



But at least we are getting a taste of what we can expect from this kind 

of technology. Perhaps others may have more information to compare the 

relative performance of the software modems of various types?



Also, have you tried these modems on VHF? Here in the U.S. we can use 

them above 50 MHz, and I think we can mix and match modes there as well. 

I have not found anyone to test this with my mediocre 6 meter antenna, 

but I just realized that this may actual work dramatically faster than 

NBEMS.



If Skip, KH6TY is reading this, perhaps he can comment.



73,



Rick, KV9U



Leskep wrote:

> Hi Rick

> Regarding RFSM2400/8000

> I wonder if you both set up your sound card offsets in the program

> Options/Hardware 

> This program does require a fairly correct sample rate setting on

> both TX and RX to achieve full speed

> On tests done here on a fairly quiet band on 40m and 80m

> before just before sunset there has been no problem to achieve

> speeds as the records show below

>  

> BTW  Our testing has been done with RFSM8000 which has the ability

> to work at  bits per second

>  

> The times shown below are in the afternoons on a relatively quiet band

> and over a distance of 250 klm for VK2KNC and 400 klm for VK2JN

>  

>  

>  

>  

> 'VK2KNC' accept MAIL-requests. - 4/11/2007 - 3:09:32 PM

> Receiving file '0101vlrg.jpg' , compressed size 87920 bytes, from 

> 'VK2KNC'... - 4/11/2007 - 3:10:01 PM

> File '0101vlrg.jpg' received succesfully, all time 406 sec, average 

> speed 1930 (1730) bits/sec - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:01 PM

> Disconnected from 'VK2KNC' - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:15 PM

>  

> Sending request for file 'stop7.jpg'. .. - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:46 PM

> Receiving file 'stop7

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Rick]

I was using the 10/Nov/07BETA of EasyPal which I downloaded fairly 
recently. I noticed that there are images that are sent with an RS 1 
through 4 and then I think it converts them to jpg? I could not open 
those files with other programs. Perhaps you an give us some tutorial on 
it. The RS turned out to be Reed-Solomon coding so at least we know what 
is being used.

Since it was the first time I ever tried EasyPal for transmitting, I 
don't have much background on this. I don't have a lot of interest in 
SSTV, per se, but I am using image as a surrogate for the data that I 
would rather be sending. Because of an active group here in the 
midwestern part of the U.S. on daytime 40 meter SSTV (7173 kHz) I will 
sometimes leave SSTV programs on the frequency and automatically receive 
some of the images when signals are good.

When you use the repeater function does that work with one to many as in 
nets? Or is that intended for one to one?

Can you send chat along with the image? Or at least send chat in between 
images?

I did not change anything for conditions and used whatever the defaults 
are. What are some of the options that you recommend?

Based upon the conditions, and my experience with receiving (not 
transmitting) DRM type of OFDM data, the roughly 1/6 throughput seems 
about right. When conditions are very good, such as NVIS daytime on 40 
meters or close to NVIS anyway, with maybe 5 or 6 S units between the 
noise and the signal, it is posible to receive the majority of the 
packets (blocks) on the first try.

The question becomes: if you had two modems, one using single tone high 
baud rate vs. one using multi tone OFDM, which one would perform the 
best in varying conditions.

Various documents on the internet suggest that there is not much 
difference, but there is at least one that does show a difference with 
computer simulations in favor of the multi tone modems. I tend to 
discount computer simulations as not adequate and prefer the real world 
under many different conditions that gives you a more accurate practical 
feel for what can and can not be done. That same document, done as a PhD 
paper, admitted that some waveforms that worked well on computer 
simulation, actually did not work at all in an actual real world test.

73,

Rick, KV9U




Leskep wrote:
> Re EasyPal
>  
> Did you use the latest version from the KC1CS  site?
>  
> Did you use the RS encoding  which is available in the program?
>  
> Did you have one end in Repeater mode which would give you a Quasi
> ARQ type system?
>  
> Did you use a transmission mode suitable for the band conditions at 
> the time?
>  
> There are many features in EasyPal which which are not well understood 
> by many
>  
> I feel you should have come up with better figures than you did for 
> the tests
> There is also a difference in transmitting  a compressed picture or 
> sending
> the file as an Anyfile which is the complete - uncompressed file
>  
> Les VK2DSG
>  
>  

Re: [digitalradio] rfsm-2400

[Rick]

The reality is that very little ham software that costs money is going 
to succeed in todays world. When computers first became available it was 
possible to write some basic ham software and charge for it, but today 
it is no longer as viable. There is so much superbly written free and 
even open source software in many categories. Not only ham radio, but 
for almost any use you can think of whether office suite, graphics, 
music, virus protection, etc. We even have the French site (Jamendo) 
that makes new artist's music available under the creative commons 
license. You make the decision whether to pay or not. It is a changing 
world indeed.

And when you have a specialty product that appeals to only a small 
number of users, you can not reach critical mass and have wide enough 
adoption.

The reason that I won't even try RFSM8000 is that I know full well that 
99.99% of other hams, including digital oriented hams, will never even 
consider it and if I want to use this technology, there will be almost 
no one to communicate with. If development on RFSM2400 does not 
continue, and you are expected to migrate to a fee based program, such 
as RFSM8000, then both will eventually fail for amateur use, unless 
there is some profoundly compelling reason that is just not available 
from any other program.

My interest is primarily being able to use these new technologies for 
chat purposes (without errors), under the most extreme and difficult 
conditions, and have excellent throughput so that you could send other 
kinds of data if it was practical to do so. The secondary effect is that 
if the mode has widespread use, and can also scale for high speeds, it 
can be used for emergency use. And when you need it for emergency use, 
there will be a critical mass of other hams who will have it available 
and already have the skill to use it.

As we are finding with dozens of digital modes, no matter how good the 
mode or software, if almost no one uses it, the value is very limited 
when you are needing to communicate with others.

73,

Rick, KV9U


John Simon wrote:
> I saw that a couple of weeks ago Simon."Shocked"  is just one of the 
> words that I thought when I saw it.  B-)
>
>
>   73, John de VK2XGJ
>  
>
>   

[digitalradio] Re: Happy Australia Day

[Andrew O'Brien]

--Yes that is hot.  You know you are in a hot country when the car 
hire company places a sticker on the window advising the renter to 
roll down the windows a little when temp exceeds 40c or windows might 
explode!  That is what it said when I hired a car in Cairns! 

Andy K3UK
- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie, VK3AMA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Andy,
> 
> Hot here in Melbourne, 35 degrees. The only thing cold is the Beer 
I'm 
> holding!
> 
> 73 de Laurie, AX3AMA
> 
> > Happy Australia Day to all our VK members.  Hope the weekend is 
not too 
> > hot for you, Melbourne looked nice and warm on TV today.  Better 
than 
> > the  18 inches of snow I have outside my house!
> >
> > Andy K3UK
> >
> >
> >
> > Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at
> > http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
> >
> >
> > DRCC contest info : http://www.obriensweb.com/drcc.htm
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [digitalradio] Happy Australia Day

[Laurie, VK3AMA]

Hi Andy,

Hot here in Melbourne, 35 degrees. The only thing cold is the Beer I'm 
holding!

73 de Laurie, AX3AMA

> Happy Australia Day to all our VK members.  Hope the weekend is not too 
> hot for you, Melbourne looked nice and warm on TV today.  Better than 
> the  18 inches of snow I have outside my house!
>
> Andy K3UK
>
>
>
> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at
> http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>
>
> DRCC contest info : http://www.obriensweb.com/drcc.htm
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>   

[digitalradio] Re: General questions about SSTV

[Phil Wells]

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Christenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hi guys, I'm looking into SSTV. I see that popular frequencies to
> operate it are 7171, 7173, 14230 and 14233. Are these pictures sent
> using an analog or digital method? What popular software is being
> used? Is there another Yahoo group for this? Thanks for the help. Bob
> C (WU9Q)
>
Hi Bob,

According to the ARRL HF Digital Handbook, 4th Ed, pg 12-10, digital
SSTV using dedicated apps like DigTRX and HamPAL plus HamDRM which
does audio too, typically occurs on 14.233, 3kc above the traditional
analog SSTV frequency.

73
Phil
AF6AV

Re: [digitalradio] Re: rfsm-2400

[Simon Brown]

Hi Dmitry,

Sorry about that, reading your website it is easy to think that there is no 
freeware version - it is not obvious as the first line of your website says 
that RFSM-8000 is shareware! Maybe you could add this RFSM-2400 freeware 
information so that everyone can see it easily?

The reason for an open source code is so that the RFSM concept will be more 
widely adopted - this is why PSK, MFSK, Olivia is so popular - it is very 
easy to write a program using a high-performance engine. It is also 
educational, an important part of Ham Radio.

By comparison HamDRM source is available 
http://hamdrm-dll.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ - I have downloaded and compiled 
it, I hope to use it soon in digital SSTV.

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: "dmitry_d2d" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I About "shocked" price.
> 1. RFSM-2400 is FREEWARE.
>

> II About open source.
> Why have you decided, what you can get source codes free, when they
> are the result of several years of work of group of people? People
> suggested to buy them for the rather high sums :).
>

[digitalradio] Re: rfsm-2400

[dmitry_d2d]

Hello Simon.

>I took a look at http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru and was shocked by 
>the price.

I About "shocked" price.
1. RFSM-2400 is FREEWARE.

2. RFSM-8000 for Hams cost 60 USD.
Let's compare similar hardware and software products:
- Pactor-3 cost about 1000 USD;
- SkySweep Messenger Client Plus - 790 EUR
(http://www.skysweep.com/binaries/doc/SkySweepMessenger.pdf);

II About open source.
Why have you decided, what you can get source codes free, when they 
are the result of several years of work of group of people? People 
suggested to buy them for the rather high sums :). 

Dmitry.

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM

[Rick]

Hi Les,

This was the first time I could get anyone to even try the mode as I 
have been attempting that for some time. From what I can tell, you need 
to be connected in order to do much with the mode to really do any kind 
of testing other than perhaps calling a "dummy" station.

In regard to your questions:

1. I may have an older version, but I don't find a sound card offset in 
the Options. My sound card has been extremely accurate (Sound Blaster 
Live!) when tested with other programs and can be within a Hz or two.

2. The sampling rate is set to 48000.

3. My main interest is having very robust modes that work at the highest 
possible speed under the most difficult conditions. I have spent 
considerable time sifting through the materials found on the internet on 
STANAG modems (I will use the term STANAG as a short form of what is a 
large number of different modems) and from the published information, 
the throughput drops off rapidly when you go below zero dB S/N. The 
throughput last night did not really quite meet those expectations, but 
this may be due to other factors, such as insufficient computing power 
or the software modem not being able to match the multi thousand dollar 
STANAG modems. At least that seems reasonable to me, otherwise, why 
would governments spend the astronomical amounts of money for such modems?

Having said that, my inside information from those who actually use 
these modems for government/military use, find that they don't work 
quite as impressively as the advertising might suggest.

But at least we are getting a taste of what we can expect from this kind 
of technology. Perhaps others may have more information to compare the 
relative performance of the software modems of various types?

Also, have you tried these modems on VHF? Here in the U.S. we can use 
them above 50 MHz, and I think we can mix and match modes there as well. 
I have not found anyone to test this with my mediocre 6 meter antenna, 
but I just realized that this may actual work dramatically faster than 
NBEMS.

If Skip, KH6TY is reading this, perhaps he can comment.

73,

Rick, KV9U





Leskep wrote:
> Hi Rick
> Regarding RFSM2400/8000
> I wonder if you both set up your sound card offsets in the program
> Options/Hardware 
> This program does require a fairly correct sample rate setting on
> both TX and RX to achieve full speed
> On tests done here on a fairly quiet band on 40m and 80m
> before just before sunset there has been no problem to achieve
> speeds as the records show below
>  
> BTW  Our testing has been done with RFSM8000 which has the ability
> to work at  bits per second
>  
> The times shown below are in the afternoons on a relatively quiet band
> and over a distance of 250 klm for VK2KNC and 400 klm for VK2JN
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 'VK2KNC' accept MAIL-requests. - 4/11/2007 - 3:09:32 PM
> Receiving file '0101vlrg.jpg', compressed size 87920 bytes, from 
> 'VK2KNC'... - 4/11/2007 - 3:10:01 PM
> File '0101vlrg.jpg' received succesfully, all time 406 sec, average 
> speed 1930 (1730) bits/sec - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:01 PM
> Disconnected from 'VK2KNC' - 4/11/2007 - 3:17:15 PM
>  
> Sending request for file 'stop7.jpg'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:46 PM
> Receiving file 'stop7.jpg', compressed size 15840 bytes, from 
> 'VK2JN'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:33:59 PM
> File 'stop7.jpg' received succesfully, all time 39 sec, average speed 
> 3240 (3231) bits/sec - 18/11/2007 - 3:34:53 PM
> Sending request for file 'Recycle.jpg'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:35:32 PM
> Receiving file 'Recycle.jpg', compressed size 43945 bytes, from 
> 'VK2JN'... - 18/11/2007 - 3:35:45 PM
> File 'Recycle.jpg' received succesfully, all time 126 sec, average 
> speed 2779 (2777) bits/sec - 18/11/2007 - 3:38:07 PM
> Disconnecting from 'VK2JN' - 18/11/2007 - 3:39:21 PM
>  
>  
>  
> Sending request for file 'closeeyes5.jpg'... - 20/11/2007 - 4:02:27 PM
> Receiving file 'closeeyes5.jpg', compressed size 75482 bytes, from 
> 'VK2JN'... - 20/11/2007 - 4:02:38 PM
> File 'closeeyes5.jpg' received succesfully, all time 195 sec, average 
> speed 3095 (3089) bits/sec - 20/11/2007 - 4:06:09 PM
> Disconnecting from 'VK2JN' - 20/11/2007 - 4:06:54 PM
>  
>  
> Sending file 'Cycle24predictions.jpg', compressed size 65750 bytes 
> (real size 76145 bytes), to 'VK2KNC'... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:17 PM
> Connecting to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM
> Connected to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM
> Doing authentification... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:58 PM
> Checking incoming mail... - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM
> POP3-server has 0 incoming mails. - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM
> Stop checking incoming mail. - 18/12/2007 - 1:49:59 PM
>  
> [I cut some server stuff out]
>  
> Connecting to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM
> Connected to POP3-server... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM
> Doing authentification... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM
> Checking incoming mail... - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM
> POP3-server has 0 incoming mails. - 18/12/2007 - 1:54:00 PM
> Stop ch

Re: [digitalradio] rfsm-2400

[Simon Brown]

Even if it's free for Hams (which I hope is the case) we should consider an 
OpenSource codebase so that it gains wider acceptance?

Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> Maybe I am missing something.  I have the software and have not paid
> anything.  Maybe I have a trial version, will have to check.

Re: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM (Easypal)

[Andrew O'Brien]

Les. I used the very latest version of Easypal but used the  default
settings for our quick test last night.  I am an experienced user of
Hampal, and even with that software there are a lot of useful features
not always employed.  You are right to point out the features of
Easypal , I hope more people will use this software.  As Rick
mentioned , it would be interesting if something like Easypal had an
option to fill the errors automatically on-the-fly in typical ARQ
style.  Just an option for people to try, the standard BSR/FIX method
is useful for many other aspects of file transfers.


Andy K3UK

On Jan 26, 2008 2:02 AM, Leskep <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Re EasyPal
>
> Did you use the latest version from the KC1CS  site?
>
> Did you use the RS encoding  which is available in the program?
>
> Did you have one end in Repeater mode which would give you a Quasi
> ARQ type system?
>
> Did you use a transmission mode suitable for the band conditions at the
> time?
>
> There are many features in EasyPal which which are not well understood by
> many
>
> I feel you should have come up with better figures than you did for the
> tests
> There is also a difference in transmitting  a compressed picture or sending
> the file as an Anyfile which is the complete - uncompressed file
>
>
> Les VK2DSG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Rick
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 3:49 PM
> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [digitalradio] Report on RFSM2400 vs. OFDM
>
>
>
> .
>  



-- 
Andy K3UK
www.obriensweb.com
(QSL via N2RJ)

Re: [digitalradio] rfsm-2400

[Andrew O'Brien]

Maybe I am missing something.  I have the software and have not paid
anything.  Maybe I have a trial version, will have to check.


On Jan 26, 2008 5:26 AM, John Simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I saw that a couple of weeks ago Simon. "Shocked" is just one of the
>  words that I thought when I saw it. B-)
>
>  73, John de VK2XGJ
>  One of the reasons politicians try so hard to get themselves re-elected,
>  because they couldn't live under the laws that they have passed!
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: "Simon Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: 
>  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:15 PM
>  Subject: [digitalradio] rfsm-2400
>
>  >I took a look at http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru and was shocked by the
>  > price.
>  >
>  > Is anyone interested in writing a GPL / Open Source implementation of the
>  > protocol in C++? Not a full UI, just the rx / tx logic?
>  >
>  > Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at
>  > http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>  >
>  >
>  > DRCC contest info : http://www.obriensweb.com/drcc.htm
>  >
>  > Yahoo! Groups Links
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > No virus found in this incoming message.
>  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>  > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date:
>  > 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>  >
>  >
>  



-- 
Andy K3UK
www.obriensweb.com
(QSL via N2RJ)

[digitalradio] New Yahoo Group "pactor_packet

[Demetre Valaris]

Dear friends,

You are invited to join the newly formed "pactor_packet" Yahoogroup
where we can discuss, exchange ideas, make skeds for QSOs etc. about
PACTOR 1/2/3 and PACKET RADIO.

If you know other Radio Amateurs interested in PACTOR and PACKET RADIO
please pass the word.

73 de Demetre SV1UY

[digitalradio] Re: MP73-N in Europe ?

[ha3dmf]

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Steinar Aanesland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>Hello Jens and others.
I change frequency for tomorrow testing to 10,144 MHz.
Guenter, HA3DMF


> QSY 10.132 USB
> 
> 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
> 
> 
> Steinar Aanesland skrev:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am sending pictures and calling CQ on 10.143 in MP73-N mode 
right now .
> >
> > Hope to see some one ;)
> >
> > 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
> >
> > ha3dmf skrev:
> > >
> > > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
> > 
> > > , Jens Petersen  
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:50:00 -, you wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Hello Europeans, are there any activities in MP73-N mode in 
our
> > > part of
> > > > >the world ??
> > > >
> > > > I have called on 30m, but no answer so far.
> > > > Maybe we could arrange a sked?
> > > > --
> > > > OV1A Jens
> > > >
> > > > Solar Cycle 24 has arrived!
> > > >
> > > Hello Jens,
> > > I will call CQ tomorrow (sunday) between 09:00 and 09:30 UTC on
> > > 10.143 MHz. Hpe to see ur sign.
> > > Guenter, HA3DMF
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: [digitalradio] Re: MP73-N in Europe ?

[Steinar Aanesland]

QSY 10.132 USB

73 de LA5VNA Steinar


Steinar Aanesland skrev:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am sending pictures and calling CQ on 10.143 in MP73-N mode right now .
>
> Hope to see some one ;)
>
> 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
>
> ha3dmf skrev:
> >
> > --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> > , Jens Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:50:00 -, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Hello Europeans, are there any activities in MP73-N mode in our
> > part of
> > > >the world ??
> > >
> > > I have called on 30m, but no answer so far.
> > > Maybe we could arrange a sked?
> > > --
> > > OV1A Jens
> > >
> > > Solar Cycle 24 has arrived!
> > >
> > Hello Jens,
> > I will call CQ tomorrow (sunday) between 09:00 and 09:30 UTC on
> > 10.143 MHz. Hpe to see ur sign.
> > Guenter, HA3DMF
> >
> >
>
>  

Re: [digitalradio] Re: MP73-N in Europe ?

[Steinar Aanesland]

Hi all,

I am sending pictures and calling CQ on 10.143 in MP73-N mode right now .

Hope to see some one ;)

73 de LA5VNA Steinar




ha3dmf skrev:
>
> --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
> , Jens Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:50:00 -, you wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Hello Europeans, are there any activities in MP73-N mode in our
> part of
> > >the world ??
> >
> > I have called on 30m, but no answer so far.
> > Maybe we could arrange a sked?
> > --
> > OV1A Jens
> >
> > Solar Cycle 24 has arrived!
> >
> Hello Jens,
> I will call CQ tomorrow (sunday) between 09:00 and 09:30 UTC on
> 10.143 MHz. Hpe to see ur sign.
> Guenter, HA3DMF
>
>  

[digitalradio] Re: MP73-N in Europe ?

[ha3dmf]

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Jens Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:50:00 -, you wrote:
> 
> >
> >Hello  Europeans, are there any activities in MP73-N mode in our 
part of
> >the world ??
> 
> I have called on 30m, but no answer so far.
> Maybe we could arrange a sked?
> -- 
> OV1A Jens
> 
> Solar Cycle 24 has arrived!
>
Hello Jens, 
I will call CQ tomorrow (sunday) between 09:00 and 09:30 UTC on 
10.143 MHz. Hpe to see ur sign.
Guenter, HA3DMF

Re: [digitalradio] rfsm-2400

[John Simon]

I saw that a couple of weeks ago Simon."Shocked"  is just one of the 
words that I thought when I saw it.  B-)


  73, John de VK2XGJ
 One of the reasons politicians try so hard to get themselves re-elected,
   because they couldn't live under the laws that they have passed!

- Original Message - 
From: "Simon Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] rfsm-2400


>I took a look at http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru and was shocked by the
> price.
>
> Is anyone interested in writing a GPL / Open Source implementation of the
> protocol in C++? Not a full UI, just the rx / tx logic?
>
> Simon Brown, HB9DRV
>
>
>
> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at
> http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>
>
> DRCC contest info : http://www.obriensweb.com/drcc.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.11/1244 - Release Date: 
> 1/25/2008 7:44 PM
>
> 

[digitalradio] rfsm-2400

[Simon Brown]

I took a look at http://rfsm2400.radioscanner.ru and was shocked by the 
price.

Is anyone interested in writing a GPL / Open Source implementation of the 
protocol in C++? Not a full UI, just the rx / tx logic?

Simon Brown, HB9DRV