Re: [slim] Building a house server?

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 2005-04-18 at 08:29 -0400, Jim Dibb wrote:


> The only time I really have a problem is when the SpamAssassin daemon
> goes crazy and chews up the whole CPU.  That happens from time to time
> and I don't know why.

How do you filter?
My "utility box" that does everything -

fetchmail pops, sends it through procmail
procmail does all my filtering for lists etc.
THEN if it hasn't been filtered to another list, it goes through
SpamAssassin. I whitelist everyone in my address book.

The result has been incredible - SpamAssassin is a lot nicer now, since
it is used far far less.

Box is a 1.6 GHz Duron (the low cache on that chip can really be felt,
I'm not going to make that mistake again)
It's running headless (no X11 sucking resources) - Fedora Rawhide.

512 MB RAM
Two hard drives (ATA 100)
services it runs: apache, vsftpd, sshd, slimserver, dovecot (imap
server, how I read my mail on my main rig), postfix, bind (caching dns
for lan), ntpd

At night it mirrors several yum repositories.
Anyway - after putting the SpamAssassin recipe at the end, the box is
generally a LOT more responsive as all my mailing lists don't go through
it anymore.

Oh - and on topic, no problems with SlimServer feeding a SoftSqueeze
client. Only using mp3 though, so that's not really testing it.

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Re: [slim] Apple lossless vs Flac

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:06:14 -0800 (PST), Chris Glushko
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I don't use Apple Lossless for the iPod.  I keep all
> the files in Appple Lossless on iTunes.  When I want
> to put something on the iPod, I just convert the files
> to AAC in iTunes, transfer them and then delete the
> AAC files from the computer.

I keep all my music lossless flac and keep a second directory with
lame encoded versions of that lossless (I just use --preset standard)

aac is allegedly better but I don't think the iPod has the sound
quality to really tell the difference between aac and mp3 at the same
bitrate. I could of course be wrong.

I don't know where you live, but in the U.S. hard drives are cheap
enough that it isn't issue keeping both lossy and lossless.

For uploading to the iPod - I don't use iTunes, I use gtkpod - it's
not quite as well integrated as iTunes is, but it also doesn't care
how many computers I have set to sync with it - I can use the music
withing gtkpod on any number of PC's, which is nice because I can play
the iPod playlists from the iPod through the better sound card of
whatever computer I happen to be using - and Apple's BS of only
allowing the iPod to connect to one computer for one user doesn't get
in my way of me playing my legally obtained music.

I don't know how close they are, but there is a sourceforge project
for a flac plugin for QuickTime. There exists one for ogg, which does
let you play ogg in iTunes - last time I used it (year ago or so) it
had a tendency to skip a lot and iTunes didn't understant vorbis tags.
But maybe the tag thing is resolved, and maybe the flac plugin has
been released - it's worth looking at if you really do want to use
iTunes for your music.


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[slim] ape, lame, and static

[Michael Peters]

fc4 on x86

using the linux port of mac

squeezebox produces static.
When I remove the -x from the lame switch, it behaves.

I don't know much about ape's format - but the man page for lame says
if you get static, try adding the -x switch.

Is this an OS platform difference - cpu dependent - or is it file dependent?
If file specific, would passing the output of mac through sox for the
resample and then to lame fix it?

I'm guessing it's OS thing, but ...

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Re: [slim] Slim Devices SB2 disappointment & SB for sale.

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:46:10 -0800, michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Phil Karn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Jack Coates wrote:
> >
> >> You might want to do some research on modern virtual memory
> >> management... swap is necessary no matter how much RAM you have.
> >
> > I disagree. I see no reason for a swap partition when you already have
> > far more physical RAM than most swap partitions used to be, and tasks
> > never fail because of memory exhaustion.
> 
> While this makes perfect sense in theory, the linux kernel (among
> others) is written with the expectation of having a swap space, and it
> makes decisions about scheduling, caching and memory management based
> on that assumption.  If you really want to run it without a swap space
> and maintain performance, you need to tweak the kernel settings a bit.
> Start with a google on "swappiness" and go from there.

In the 2.6 kernel you can use a swap file instead of a swap space and
it allegedly (I haven't tried) is just as fast.

Swap space is not just for a lack of memory.
Things in memory that have not been used get written to swap, so that
free memory in swap can be used to be instantly ready for new apps (or
reading back apps that were swapped) and can be used for disk read
cache.

The disk read cache gives you a huge performance boost, if a file has
been read and is in the cache - then the OS does not need to go to
disk for it again when it is requested again. This is why you want
swap even if you have plenty of memory for the apps you run - it
allows your memory to be used efficiently, no waste.

If you neglected to set up a swap partition, look into setting up a swap file.

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[slim] Tagging Classical Music

[Michael Peters]

I just bought a flac album from Magnatune -
Elizabeth Wolff - Moments Musicaux

Here is what the file listing looks like (magnatune had spaces which I
replaced with _ as I can't stand spaces in a file name):

 
01-Sergei_Rachmaninoff_-_6_Moments_Musicaux_Op._16_-_Andantino-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
02-Sergei_Rachmaninoff_-_6_Moments_Musicaux_Op._16_-_Allegretto-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
03-Sergei_Rachmaninoff_-_6_Moments_Musicaux_Op._16_-_Andante_cantabile-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
04-Sergei_Rachmaninoff_-_6_Moments_Musicaux_Op._16_-_Presto-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
05-Sergei_Rachmaninoff_-_6_Moments_Musicaux_Op._16_-_Adagio_sostenuto-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
06-Sergei_Rachmaninoff_-_6_Moments_Musicaux_Op._16_-_Maestoso-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
07-Moritz_Moszkowski_-_3_Moments_Musicaux_Op._7_-_Allegramente-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
08-Moritz_Moszkowski_-_3_Moments_Musicaux_Op._7_-_Con_moto-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
09-Moritz_Moszkowski_-_3_Moments_Musicaux_Op._7_-_Tranquillo_e_semplice-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
10-Moritz_Moszkowski_-_4_Moments_Musicaux_Op._84_-_Con_moto-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
11-Moritz_Moszkowski_-_4_Moments_Musicaux_Op._84_-_Moderato_e_grazioso-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
12-Moritz_Moszkowski_-_4_Moments_Musicaux_Op._84_-_Maestoso-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac
13-Moritz_Moszkowski_-_4_Moments_Musicaux_Op._84_-_Animato_ma_non_troppo-Elizabeth_Wolff.flac

1-6 all have the same title set in the title field (Sergei
Rachmaninoff - 6 Moments)
7-9 all have the same title set in the title field (Moritz Moszkowski
- 3 Moments)
10-13 all have the same title set in the title field (Moritz
Moszkowski - 4 Moments)

Other than the track numbers of the sets being different, from the
sets there is no way to tell the tracks apart via the tags. The track
names however contain information not in the vorbis comments.

What would be the proper vorbis comment field to add to contain the
additional data?


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Re: [slim] Linux command-line tagger

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:28:43 -0500, Michael Haan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> I don't remember the exact command, but something like id3v2 -l 11_*.flac
> came back: 
> 
> 11_Frogs.flac 
> 
> No tags found 
> 
> Or something like that.  Most of these files (they're all flac) were
> ripped/tagged with dbPowerAMP and slimserver seems to be able to pull them
> out.  So i just figured this tool (id3v2) was having issues reading them.

Flac doesn't use ID3 tags

man metaflac

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Re: [slim] Linux command-line tagger

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 22:39:48 -0500, Michael Haan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Can anyone recommend a good command-line tagger (I'm already using abcde to
> rip - just need something to use for the occasional fix).  I've tried
> audiotool, id3v2 and id3tool but they don't seem to read the existing tags. 

id3v2 works perfectly for me - what do you mean by not reading the
existing tags?
It does for me - were your mp3's tagged with ape? I don't believe it
understands ape tags - but it should work fine with existing ID3V1 or
ID3V2 tags.

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[slim] Fedora Core 4 Testers

[Michael Peters]

For those testing Fedora Core 4 (Linux) - I'm working on an rpm spec
file for eventual inclusion in rpm.livna.org

It packages things differently than the standard SlimDevices supplied
rpm, the intention is to use system installed perl modules where
possible etc. and reduce what is in the CPAN directory.

This of course is completely unsupported by slim devices, some of the
perl modules will be different versions (I'm doing my best to make
sure same or newer) and some them may have patches applied by the
maintainers of the perl module etc. - so it's a situation where
problems should not reported to slim devices unless you _know_ it is
their problem (and you can only do that by using their install)

But there are benefits to doing things the "Fedora" way - automated
updates through yum, if there are security issues with any of the perl
modules - the Fedora maintainers fixing it and pushing it to updates
means that you don't still have the vulnerability in the slimserver -
etc.

What I presently have is at

http://mpeters.us/sleek/

Info page describing what I'm doing is at

http://mpeters.us/sleek/info.html

That's what I'll be updating as I progress.
Currently it's a little difficult to install because some of the
needed perl modules in Fedora Rawhide have to be updated, and there's
a couple perl modules that have to get into Fedora Extras - but the
obvious goal is to make installation as simple as

yum install slimserver

Anyone using FC4Test series who wants to test or contribute is welcome.
I'm particularly eager to hear about it on x86_64 (amd64) - if the
perl modules from Fedora work, then slimserver should too.

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Re: [slim] Using linux to generate a FLAC file of a complete CD

[Michael Peters]

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:09:52 + (UTC), Andy Hawkins
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> I don't have cdrdao, any idea how to do it with cdparanoia?
> 
> > 2) cueconvert -f album.toc -f album.cue
> 
> Don't have this one either...source?

You may be able to do it with cdparanoia - but there probably is a
precompiled cdrdao for your distro. Try requesting it with yum or
aptget.

The sourceforge page is at http://cdrdao.sourceforge.net/

I don't know about cueconvert.


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Re: [slim] Using FLAC to replaygain MP3s

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:38:49 -0700, Jason Holtzapple
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andrea Minini wrote:
> > Is it possible, with some specific setting for the slimserver-convert.conf
> > file, to convert MP3s to FLAC, passing the replaygain tag to FLAC, in
> > order to then decode FLAC to WAV with the
> > apply-replaygain-which-is-not-lossless function activated?
> 
> Take a look at http://mp3gain.sf.net which will make replaygain-like 
> adjustments
> to your mp3 files that will work with squeezebox. The process is
> reversible.

I second that.
mp3gain is what I use with all my mp3's.
It's great because I don't have to have my iPod adjust volume levels,
they are already adjusted - and that saves battery.

For an album - get all the songs in the same directory and just run

mp3gain -a -k *.mp3
That will analyze of them and apply the same gain to each song in the album.

There also is a port to aac called aacgain - I saw it talked about on
hydrogen audio but have not tried it.

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Re: [slim] Re: SlimServer on Linux PPC ?

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:46:49 -0800, Dan Sully <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >Yep I understand your point of view, but my concern is that OSX runs
> >all the time a graphic environment I won't be using, and so I wanted to
> >use Linux as I can prevent load of any graphics stuff that would eat
> >performance of my processor without needs !
> 
> Yes, it will be running graphically, but you won't be using that, so it will
> be mostly idle. And the rest of the system is tuned to run on that processor,
> whereas a Linux build may not be.
> 
> Please also note that we're a small company and can only (reasonably) support
> so many platforms. You of course are welcome to try any platform you want.

It's also possible to boot OS X straight into the CLI.
At the gui login - I believe you enter >console at the login prompt -
but there also is a way to default it to that. I don't remember what
it is though.

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[slim] [OT] Free decent indy music

[Michael Peters]

I apologize if this is frowned upon - but I found a huge stash of free
indy music, a lot of it is pretty good (various styles). It's a rather
large bt download, but there is a smaller bt download if you just want
to same to see if it's worth downloading the set.

http://2005.sxsw.com/geekout/fest4pod/

Not all of it is good, but a lot of it is.

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Re: [slim] SlimServer on Linux PPC ?

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:20:30 +0100, Vince <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm looking to know if someone has already installed SlimServer 6 on
> Linux for Power PC. My plan is to run SlimServer on a mac mini with
> Linux (Yellow Dog Distribution probably).
> Thanks for all your info

It should run just fine.
You might have to run their script to build perl modules - but maybe not.

Fedora Core will be releasing a PPC port for FC4 - the first test
releas is already out, but apparently are difficult to install on a
mini because the xserver config on the install CD is wrong or
something.

I've also heard sound is not yet working (that wouldn't matter for
slimserver as long as you didn't want to use a client on slimserver).
Yellow Dog is a good distribution, but in all honesty - unless you
want to run Linux for another purpose, it might be better to run OS X
on a mini simply because it is so new, Linux support won't be as good.
Airport isn't supported, network is - sound supposedly isn't, etc.

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Re: [slim] Portable SB2 Setup

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:26:52 -0700, JJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> For any other computer you'll probably want a monitor, keyboard, and
> pointing device.  You could run the server headless, but if you run into
> problems, say while camping, then you'll want to be able to get on the
> computer and try to fix it.

If you have something like a shuttle with a serial port - you could
put a wifi card in the shuttle and use a palm pilot with a serial
adaptor and a console emulator to get in that way - but that seems a
little *too* geeky.

Laptop has the advantage of not needing a power source if the
batteries are charged.
Used laptop on eBay wouldn't cost too much.

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Re: [slim] Portable SB2 Setup

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:19:09 -0500, Mike Hartley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Although my collection  is currently in WMA lossless with no drm (no lectures 
> please, it made sense at the time :-) ) I'd be willing to re-rip everything 
> if it was not too horrible from a process perspective. 

If there is no drm, you should be able to transcode the wma lossless
to flac without any quality loss.

I've never done it - but I bet at hydrogenaudio, you can find
something to do it.

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Re: [slim] abcde usage (with flac)

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 10:41:26 -0500, Michael Haan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> I just started using abcde to rip to flac last night.  It seemed a little
> slow, but given everything that was going on on the box, and the processes
> nice level, I wasn't surprised.  Anyway, I haven't yet figured out exactly
> how to configure abcde the way I want just yet.  On the single file per cd
> issue, I'm with you.  I have my entire collection in flac and would never
> even thing of ripping cds to a single file with cue sheets - seems
> unnatural.

If things were better integrated it wouldn't seem un-natural - they
would appear as individual songs in your music player etc.

Some of the jukeboxes for Windows do this, once ripped - there's no
need to think of it as a single file.

I just personally never saw the point of ripping as a single file and
using a cue sheet.

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Re: [slim] LinkStation as SlimServer... Performance Issues?

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:20:25 -0800, Marc D. Field
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 03/17/2005 06:41 AM, Thomas B. Malsbury wrote:
> > Looks like the offer is still valid, and its $40 less then Amazon, so
> > this might be the deal he was talking about.
> >
> 
> Thanks -- looks like a good buy.  I'm thinking of getting a second one.
> 
> If you guys do end up getting one, check out my website for instructions
> on installing SlimServer on it:
> 
> 

Cool page - thanks!

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Re: [slim] abcde usage (with flac)

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:08:12 -0800, Bill Moseley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> BTW -- also saw a post where they said EAC was better at ripping that
> cdrdao/cdparanoia.  Is that true?  If so, why?

It is true, though with most CD's there isn't a difference.
On damaged CD's, you are more likely to get an accurate rip with EAC
than with cdparanoia.
On damaged CD's, both will take a hell of a long time though, and not
guarantee an accurate rip.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:06:46 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Are you sure you're cpu bound and not disk bound? The 2.4 disk elevator is a
> nightmare and the 2.6 default is not perfect either.

It also happens with my flac files which are on a separate dedicated
hard disk (with nothing else on, though I have contemplated putting a
swap on it.)

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Re: [slim] Linux command-line tagging / ripping (flac) softwarerecommendations

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:36:55 -0500, Michael Haan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> I'm not oppsed to additional work, especially if it reduces errors and can
> be somewhat scripted.  So, your method adds a manual step for naming the
> files, otherwise using cdparanoia and flac?  That's not so bad.  I still
> need to look at jack and compare it to abcde and your method, but would you
> mind sending along those scripts that you mentioned?  Thanks. 

Attached

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wav2flac-metadata.sh
Description: Bourne shell script


wav2flac.sh
Description: Bourne shell script
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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:54:59 -0800, Michael Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On my 2Hz athlon machine -

That should read 2GHz ;)

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:51:47 -0700, Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> However, as many have told you, the CPU requirements of transcoding are
> minimal and transcoding to a lossless format for delivery is an excellent
> solution for [b]most[/b] users.

Minimal, yes - but it needs to in real time at least enough to keep
the buffer fed.
On my 2Hz athlon machine - I occasionally get skips when playing mp3
if I'm doing something else (such as transcoding mpeg2 to DivX - or
the opposite, going from DivX to mpeg2)

Especially when fetchmail pops my pop account and then has to pass it
through SpamAssassin.

Just streaming the mp3 without unencoding is a lot easier on the cpu.
It's true that most cpu cycles are thrown away, the problem is when
you are utilizing the cpu and the process needs to be relatively real
time to keep the buffer fed.

Since lossy is smaller, the buffer can hold more - and with no
transcoding, the CPU can be busy doing something else, and still be
able to do the I/O required to keep the buffer fed so you don't skip
in playback.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:29:52 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Just so there is some clarity on the subject, here is where I am
> >coming from completely.
> 
> 
> 
> Your post is extremely informative and I'm sure Fedora users appreciate your
> work. However, there is exactly one point about which I propose we just
> agree to disagree:
> 
> >Lossless streaming of ogg files as PCM or FLAC is not attractive to the
> >Fedora Extras community

It's a waste of resources.
You don't get better audio quality by streaming an ogg file as lossless.
It does take more CPU usage - as it has to be decoded (and maybe flac encoded)
It does take more bandwidth on your network.

So by streaming oggs as lossless, you use more resources and do not
gain anything.
If all your network/computer do is squeezebox - BFD.
But Linux users tend to have a lot more going on, and also often tend
to use older computers as headless boxes for things like slimserver -
where the cpu load will make a difference (especially if same box is
being used for DNS and mail and ... as well)



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Re: [slim] Linux command-line tagging / ripping (flac) software recommendations

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:10:49 -0500, Michael Haan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Having just gotten my myth tv box running, and relocating my slimserver (now
> 6.0 - thanks to those who helped) install to it, I'm ready to rip and tag
> the CDs that have piled-up over the past two months and I'd really like to
> use a command-line tool to do it.  Does anyone know of, or better yet use,
> anything like this? 

I don't trust/like cddb -

One album, artist will be Eagles - next it will be The Eagles
One album, artist will be R.E.O. Speedwago - next it will be REO
Speedwagon - etc.

Here's what I do.
It's more work, but worth it (imho)

1) create directory structure
~/flac/Artist_With_Underscores_For_Spaces/Album_Same_Underscore_Dealie

cd ~/flac/U2/War
cdparanoia -d /dev/hdc -B -X

That rips them to wav files.
I rename them -

01-Sunday_Bloody_Sunday.wav
02-Seconds.wav
03-New_Year\'s_Day.wav

etc.

Then I create metadata using a shell script I wrote (request if you want)

wav2flac-metadata.sh "Rock" 1983

That creates a file called tracks.txt
I hand edit that file if needed (usually not, but some special
characters I don't escape but use spaces, so I do sometimes need to
fix the file)

Then I run wav2flac.sh (request if you want) - and it makes my flac
files tagged for me using the metadata provided.

That may be more work than you want to do - I just got sick of
incorrect CDDB data. So when I have incorrect data now, it's me to
blame :p

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Re: [slim] Prefered Archiving Format

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:27:00 +1000, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I suppose one thing to also consider is which encoder to use and does it have 
> CCD or similar titling database support (on that note do lossless formats 
> support tagging??)
> 
> Anyways, if anybody has some advice that you think might help me to come to a 
> conclusive decision I'd love to hear from you.

I use cdparanoia under Linux (use to use EAC in Windows) to rip and
flac to encode.

I don't use CDDB lookup, I tag the files manually because too often, I
disagree with CDDB on how something should be tagged - but there are
several rippers for Linux that use a cdparanoia backend, look up the
CD in CDDB, and will encode to flac for you.

Mandrake probably comes with one, if not more than one.
Flac is imho the right way to go for lossless encoding. Just back it
up! (DVD-R or whatever) as hard drives are known to die from time to
time.

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Re: [slim] Ogg Vorbis Support on SB2?

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:13:28 -0600, Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is all this talk about the SqueezeBox2 not supporting Ogg Vorbis.
> The features page states that it does and that is why I bought one.
> Please don't tell me I can't play my Ogg Vorbis music files on the
> SqueezeBox2...

Oh you can - the ogg files are decoded on the server, and then sent to
the squeezebox either re-encoded as an mp3, flac, or unencoded as a
PCM.

The discussion is to be able to stream to the Squeezebox2 as an ogg
stream, with the decoding of ogg done there rather than on the server.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

Just so there is some clarity on the subject, here is where I am
coming from completely.

I am working on an rpm spec file for inclusion of SlimServer in rpm.livna.org

rpm.livna.org is a yum repository for packages that can not be
included in Fedora Core or Fedora Extras because of patent issues.

To get SlimServer into rpm.livna.org there are several things I need
to do - some of it is done.
The ~/Bin stuff has to go, that's done - Fedora already provides a
lame binary and an oggdec binary. I have an rpm spec file that works
(at least for me) for Apple's mDNSResponderPosix. I don't have an rpm
yet for mppdec because it fails to compile for me, probably a trivial
patch - but no sense working on it now because FC4 will ship with a
new version of gcc - so it would be better to patch the mpp stuff to
that gcc.

The other issue is the CPAN/arch stuff.
It looks to me by reading the slimserver perl script that SlimServer
is dependent upon specific versions - not an issue, I can make a
slimserver-perl package src.rpm that builds those specific versions
and installs them into CPAN/arch

I hope to have this ready for inclusion in rpm.livna.org for FC4
release date in June.
It probably would not be in rpm.livna.org until some time after, as
the packages have to go through a QA process. But when it is done, a
Fedora User will simply need to add the rpm.livna.org repositories,
and they can then install slimserver by running

yum install slimserver

The server and any dependencies would just be pulled in, and the user
would ready to point their browser to port 9000 and be done. Updates
that fix bugs, bugs either fixed by slimdevices - or bugs fixed by the
Fedora Community - would automatically be pushed to users when the
rpms are updated on the rpm.livna.org server.

If there was a lossy way of streaming that did not use a patented
technology, it would be possible to get slimserver into Fedora Extras.
I don't know what the patent status is on the mpp stuff - or if it can
run without it (I suspect), that may have to remain in livna (like the
gstreamer plugin for mp3 is in livna even though gstreamer-plugins are
in core)

I also do not know about Apple's mDNSResponderPosix.
That product actually looks like it could be useful for a LOT of
different things in Fedora, it is open source - and Apple does permit
grant to use without a license - so it may not take much at all to get
it into Fedora Extras.

slimserver itself though I don't think will be able to go into extras
unless it would be useful to people who do not use music files created
with an encoder that has patent distribution issues. SlimServer works
fine with ogg now, but only if streamed lossless or if transcoded to
mp3.

Lossless streaming of ogg files as PCM or FLAC is not attractive to
the Fedora Extras community, and transcoding to mp3 would require
lame.

Slimserver could be patched by the OSS to stream ogg, but such a patch
would not work with a Squeezebox unless the Squeezebox could do
something with that ogg stream.

Starting with Fedora Core 4, Fedora Extras will be enabled by default
on a users machine. The goal for Fedora is that by FC5, a user can
install stuff from Extras that they want at the time that they
install.

Having SlimServer in Fedora Extras thus means that all a Fedora user
would have to do is run "yum install slimserver" and they are good to
go. Slick, easy, trouble free installation - with a support backend to
push updates through when available every time the user runs "yum
update" on their system.

Such ease of installation/maintenance means more users of SlimServer,
even if they are not all users of SqueezeBox itself - more users of
the server potentially means more issues being resolved in a timely
manner (it's an open source project) which means a better product for
buyers of the product on ANY platform.

That's where I'm coming from - that's what oggdec on the SqueezeBox
firmware would potentially do.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:11:02 -0700, Daryle A. Tilroe
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> And, as was pointed out, you can stream your existing MP3s just fine.
> Finally, if you are running Linux and cannot somehow install LAME then
> you have other problems. ;-)

Those that seem to be against this have stated that they don't want to
re-encode all their music (even though that wouldn't be required, no
one suggested dropping mp3 support) - and now it is suggested that
people with ogg should re-encode and change what format they prefer in
order to get lossy streaming?

Strange world.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:57:01 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I am stating point blank that the patent issues are in fact a problem for
> >SlimServer ever being
> >included in Fedora/Red Hat mainline distribution
> 
> Then your feature request should not be 'please include native .ogg support
> in the sb2', it should be 'please try to get slimserver into an official RH
> package archive'

It won't get into Red Hat/Fedora until it supports lossy.

> 
> You might also want to look at other distributions and see if they handle
> slimserver and mp3 support in a way that is more to your liking.

I'm not going to change distributions.
I actually use many - Fedora is what I use for my desktop because I
like the Fedora philosophy - and it is a good solid distribution.

Debian is great for boxes without X11 - Mandrake is good if you like
KDE - SuSE is a good distribution if you like KDE - I'm not going to
change distributions.

Installing SlimServer isn't a problem for me, and as I stated earlier
in this discussion - ogg support in the firmware doesn't matter
personally to me, I don't use ogg at the moment anyway. But it still
would be a good thing for users if it was supported in the squeezebox.

Changing the firmware in the squeezebox is a lot easier than asking a
bunch of users to change their music encoding and install unsupported
third software (lame) in order to get lossy streaming to a squeezebox.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:47:45 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Ah, so what? What you're saying is that slimdevices should spend time and
> mony on adapting tremor to the sb2 just because RedHat doesn't ship
> something you want out of the box.

It's a business decision.
If they supported ogg decoding in the player, they may get more customers.
Supporting ogg in the player doesn't even guarantee Red Hat/Fedora
would include it - it would just make it easier.

More customers though is a good thing, right?
Would there be enough to offset the cost?
Possibly - if for no other reason then there would be slashdot buzz
about it, giving free advertising to slimdevices (and not just for ogg
users)

I really can not imagine it would be difficult to support ogg in the firmware.
I also am having trouble understanding why you are opposed to it - did
an ogg file damage your hard drive or something?

It wouldn't take anything away from you or how you use slimdevices -
it would open up slimdevices to more people. Yes, there would be a
cost - it would take a developer some time, a QA guy some time, a
developer to fix what the QA guy found, and the occasional bugs after
release. Would the ROI be worth it? I think it would.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:31:06 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Wait a minute, didn't you just bash mp3 halfway around the list because it
> was patent encumbered? Yet you consider AAC? I just don't get you...

I didn't bash mp3.
It is a very good lossy codec.
mp3 (and aac) will never be in the mainline Fedora distribution
because they do require licenses to distribute encoders/decoders for.

I use patented software, no doubt about it - but I don't expect it to
be in the distribution, I get that elsewhere and install it myself.

AAC is a very nice encoding format, probably better than ogg (I
haven't done any listening tests, but I was very impressed with
128kbps encodes from iTunes/QuickTime)

I'm not bashing mp3 for patent issues, I am stating point blank that
the patent issues are in fact a problem for SlimServer ever being
included in Fedora/Red Hat mainline distribution - unless their also
is a lossy choice that doesn't have the patent issues (and that's ogg)

I personally wouldn't mind paying for Fedora for it to come with mp3
support - I'm not against a technology just because their are patents.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:23:32 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> This would only be relevant if you were streaming formats other than
> mp3 to the sb as mp3, i.e. if you were transcoding to mp3
> on the server.
> As long as you just pass through mp3 data to the Squeezebox
> you don't violate any patents.

While true - it would mean the Red Hat/Fedora would be shipping a
product for which they do not ship the capability for users to use,
the users would have to encode their mp3's elsewhere - and I think you
can understand why they would not want to do that.

The software they ship rips to ogg. That means the users would be
required to broadcast as lossless - or install third party software to
transcode their ogg to mp3 for the streaming.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:09:21 -0600, Michael Alletto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> If a product states that it supports it it will just confuse people.

Why?

> I mean really, OGG?  Naming is everything and that name sucks. 

I don't think it sucks.
It's no worse than mp3 or aac or flac.

> You
> try convincing someone who's never heard of it to rip their cd's in
> that format.  You'll get a blank stare back.  Plus the availability to
> download ogg based music files is extremely limited.

No one is suggesting that mp3 support be dropped.
That would be a bad move.

> 
> I personally don't care either way.  I don't use it and never will.
> I've invested too much time and space into variable bit rate mp3's so
> I'm not about to go back and rerip everything.
> 
> Just because something is better doesn't mean it is better.

Well - I generally "rip once, rip right"
I rip to lossless - which means I can transcode to whatever format
happens to be the best at the moment. For me, that is mp3 because
Linux does not have a good aac encoder, and ogg is not supported on my
iPod.

But ogg in the squeezebox firmware does not require you to change.
That, btw, is an excellent way in which the VHS/Betamax analogy fails.

If I used a Betamax, I could not play my tapes in a VHS player.
Music files are different - you don't have to change your player to
change formats, and a player supporting a new format doesn't mean that
the users have to stop using what they prefer.

There are portable players that do support ogg, and I may buy such a
player in the future. Especially if it offers gapless playback - the
iPod Mini has a kick arse interface, but I hate the fact that it is
not even capable of gapless playback - I enjoy live bootlegs, and a
gap between each song really is irritating. When I do replace my iPod
Mini, I will look at players that support gapless - and that probably
means an ogg player because gapless mp3 is a hack. Plus, I can use ogg
at 128 VBR to get what I get with lame at 192VBR - which means more
tunes on the player. AAC would also do that, but FAAC needs some
serious work.

Of course, if Apple released QuickTime for Linux then I could use
their AAC encoder, as it is really good. Perhaps Nero will release
their AAC encoder for Linux as well - they have released their CD/DVD
Burning sweet (I hear it needs some work, but it is just released -
that's to be expected)

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:13:26 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Yes - if SlimServer could stream in ogg, there's a good chance it
> >would make it into distros like Fedora etc.
> 
> Again, what has support of a particular format got to do with
> putting slimserver in a distribution? Nothing.

Everything - Red Hat / Fedora will never ship mp3 support until all of
the relevent patents expire. Since slimserver requires mp3 support for
lossy streaming, that means it isn't going to be in Fedora/Red Hat.

> 
> >Yes - that's SlimServer and not firmware, but if ogg is in firmware, a
> >side effect is that the Server would need to stream ogg
> 
> Why would it NEED to do that?

What would be the point of ogg in the squeezebox firmware if the
server did not stream in ogg?

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:26:49 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >OGG is an open format.  OGG is the default for the FEDORA distribution.
> >MP3 was eliminated from FEDORA due to licensing considerations.  You can of
> >course obtain MP3
> >and install it, but the fact remains that MP3 is no longer distributed by
> >default.
> 
> Wait, you're telling me that the packages a certain commercial Linux
> distributor ships have any impact on the market? Sorry, but no.

Linux marketshare is definitely growing - don't ignore it.
Just a few years ago, if I mentioned the word Linux to a phone tech
support person, chances are they would never have heard of it. Now
several times - when it has come up, they not only knew what it was,
but had played with it - especially knoppix and Ubuntu.

Existing mainstream apps that were half baked on Linux are now
suddenly getting attention - Adobe Acrobat 7 and RealPlayer no longer
suck in Linux, and other mainstream apps are starting to appear - Nero
just released a Linux port of their CD Burning software (and no, it's
not just a front end to cdrecord)

Linux has come a long way on the desktop - and it is continuing to improve.
A lot of people are really starting to get sick of the MS Monoculture
world that invites malware and viruses etc. to target it, Macs are
still expensive (even with the Mini), and Linux is quite good now.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:42:40 +0100, Christian Pernegger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> But there's one thing I just noticed: STREAMING. I


Yes - if SlimServer could stream in ogg, there's a good chance it
would make it into distros like Fedora etc. Streaming in flac/PCM is
OK but not a lot of people keep lossless around. Streaming in mp3 has
the patent issue. Streaming ogg vorbis on the other hand would be
extremely beneficial. The license for mDNSResponderPosix (Apple) would
need to be looked at.

Yes - that's SlimServer and not firmware, but if ogg is in firmware, a
side effect is that the Server would need to stream ogg - which would
open up the product for potential inclusion in the mainstream
distributions.

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Re: [slim] Suggestions for 802.11g Wireless Router?

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:36:09 -0800, Joshua Uziel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> > I really wish Consumer Reports could evaluate stuff like this. They
> > could save a lot of people a lot of time and money.
> 
> Agreed.  I got it 'cause it was the cheapest on the market... you get
> what you pay for... but again, it's fine if you limit it's
> responsibilities. :)

Back in the 80's - mom and dad bought a Colt Vista because it had
excellent Consumer Reports rating. That entire line of cars ended up
being a lemon line with expensive repairs.

Even consumer reports is sometimes way off.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:57:57 -0700, Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  but it's just
> not practical for Slim to develop support for another portable format on the
> server and clients 

Support in the server would not be difficult - vorbis streaming is
extremely well documented.
Support in the client would also probably not be difficult. Wether it
would be worth or not is another question - several portable mp3
players have decided it is worth it.

If they had support on the device, they may gain some free marketing
via inclusion of their server in Linux distributions - which are in
fact gaining in marketshare, on the Desktop, and with non "Power
Users"

I personally don't care - I don't use ogg. mp3 is fine for me for lossy.

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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:33:08 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like .ogg - I just see no point in implementing a
> portable format directly on the squeezebox.

I do.
If it used could use ogg for streaming lossy format, there is a better
chance that it would be accepted in Linux distros on the installation
CD with hackers from the distribution adding cool features (like a
gstreamer client etc.)

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Re: [slim] Re: Re: Re: Problem starting 6.0b1on FC3 (was Problem starting5.4.0on FC3)

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:59:44 -0500, John Rakestraw
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> 
> I'm a Linux user (but definitely not a power user) -- thought I'd point
> out that I installed Slimserver 6.0b1 on FC3 last week and it hasn't
> crashed since. (I have seen problems (e.g., in playlist display) that
> have apparently been fixed in the nightly releases.)
> 
> It's clear that those reporting problems know more about this stuff than
> I do, and (though I don't remember doing it) it's possible that I
> updated the perl modules others mentioned as crucial when I
> updated/installed other programs. But it seems relevant that it's
> running on my machine.

attrpms and dag and freshrpm's often have updated versions of core packages.
If you use them (I don't) then maybe your perl modules already were
what they needed to be (I don't know what they offer updates for)

It's also possible that my issue wasn't the perl modules, but was the
slim 6.0b I had been trying - after getting all the perl modules
compiled and installed, I started working a spec file for possible
submission to rpm.livna.org - and started with the latest (at the
moment) nightly build.

Since I changed two things (installed perl modules and the build of
slim) I can't be *positive* it was the perl modules. I do have a
suspicion though.

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Re: [slim] Wow

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:12:14 +, Steven Moore
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do you know if the 'blank tracks' problem has been solved yet?


I don't know about that - but I do know that I have some probably
improperly encoded mp3's that 5.4.0 could not see (neither could
Rhythmbox - but iPod and sox could play them) that DO work with 6.0b -
so since this is a WoW thread, thumbs up :)

So whatever caused 5.4 to not be able to see them, 6.0b fixed it :)

// No - it's not a tagging issue - I read all the tags into variables,
and had id3v2 delete the tags and then create them fresh - I think
they are just poorly encoded mp3's - they all cut off the end too, but
I need them (voice, for a class, not music) - now they work with slim
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Re: [slim] OGG VORBIS Support in Firmware

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:33:08 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I do know that transcoding to WAV is not insignificant; and am skeptical of
> >the overhead
> >requirements for FLAC.  Regardless, the bandwidth requirements for a FLAC
> >transmission is greater
> >than that of ogg.
> 
> While this is true, bandwidth / size is not really an issue any more in any
> kind of stationary setup. Harddisk sizes are such that even encoding your
> CDs in a lossless codec is hardly worth the effort anymore - if it weren't
> for tagging support I'm sure some people would just rip to .wav and be done
> with it.

I'm not sure that's true.
If it were not for flac - my archive drive for ripped music would be
overful and I would need two drives.

I still have room for many more albums on that drive because it is compressed.

The other issue is backup - compressed means less media is needed for
backing up your archive.

While it is true that hard drives are getting bigger and cheaper,
storage needs of users are getting bigger as well - especially now
that a lot users are keeping video rips of movies around etc.

Compression lets you keep more of it so you don't run out out space or
have to have several external SCSI/FireWire/USB drives all over the
place.

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Re: [slim] Re: Re: Re: Problem starting 6.0b1on FC3 (was Problem starting5.4.0on FC3)

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 14:52:51 -0800, Dan Sully <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> This sounds like FC3 is very broken. Has anyone else running FC3 had this 
> issue?

When I installed the slimserver rpm for 6.0xB it did not work.
The server kept on crashing.

What I did was a lot of work, but it now works on fc3 - well, I don't
own a squeezebox yet (yes, it WILL be ordered THIS MONTH - and then
I'll have to wait behind everyone who ordered already - but :shrug:

But it is working with RealPlayer as a client.

I updated a bunch of perl modules that came on the system - and that
was more that just the needed modules, because I want to submit some
of them to Fedora Extras so I needed to make sure they had all the
useful dependencies etc. installed so they would build and test
against them.

That involved installed postgresql so I can run make test on the two
perl packages that had a perl::DBI test.

I'll try to post more details on the weekend.
But that's the problem.

FC user - voice yourself on these bugs so FC4 gets what it needs:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=150359
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=141099
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=136494

The other perl packages hopefully will get into Fedora Extras - this
weekend I'm going to clean up the spec files I wrote for them and try
to get them in.

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Re: [slim] [OT?] Kitchen speaker system

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 13:32:02 -0500, Ian Whalley
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm about to install a squeezebox system in the kitchen, and
> the speakers will need to reside on top of wall-mounted
> cupboards, and will be not easily accessible.  This makes
> most powered-speakers unsuitable, as I won't be able to turn
> them off when not in use.

I have speakers mounted in the ceiling in the kitchen/dining room.
The speaker wires run through the roof, then down into the living room
- where they attach to a receiver.

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Re: [slim] Suggestions for 802.11g Wireless Router?

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:57:26 -0800 (PST), Chris Glushko
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would suggest staying away from Netgear.  I just
> replaced my WR614 today.  Even with the latest
> firmware, my netgear router was never very stable and
> under intense use (i.e. a few hours of Bittorrent w/
> Azureus) the netgear would essentially freeze, needed
> to power cut off manually to unfreeze it.

Just for the record - I have the same issue with my Linksys wrt54g router.

BitTorrent crashes it.
I rarely uses BT - only to grab Linux iso's - it works perfectly otherwise.
Supposedly the BT issue on the Linksys router can be solved by
installing a third party firmware that gives you access to a shell and
then using that shell to allow more connections.

However - I've heard reports that it only is an issue on PPPoE and is
a buggy PPPoE driver. I'm switching to cable modem soon anyway, so I
will see if that fixes it - and if not, I'll just RMA it as some
people with a Linksys don't seem to have the issue, and I'd rather
have one that doesn't have the issue with stock firmware, then have to
do weird stuff.

My router is a v2.2 router - I don't know if it exists on the v3.0 routers.

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Re: [slim] Suggestions for 802.11g Wireless Router?

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:44:10 -0800, Phil Karn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> The WRT54G is a big seller in most retail outlets (there's usually a big
> pallet of 'em at the local Fry's) and it is often heavily discounted
> and/or sold with rebates. 

You can usually tell a big sale on them is going on somewhere when
suddenly a bunch "NIB" appear on eBay. When sellers can get them new
cheaper than they go for on eBay, they will and turn around and sell
them - so when eBay gets flooded with NIB check CompUSA, BestBuy, etc.
The sellers often list before they have it in hand because if they
don't, everyone else will and they'll get in late and lose money.

http://www.edealinfo.com/DDCateg/

often has them listed in the networking section when they happen.

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Re: [slim] Open firmware for SB2?

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:53:35 -, Patrick Dixon
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "it's worked very well for Linux."
> 
> Really?  As someone struggling to get FC3 configured, googling for
> information produces many more people with Linux problems than there are
> solutions out there.

Linux runs beautifully for me, though it isn't completely without issues.
OTOH I have been using Linux for quite some time, so it's way of doing
things has become native to me, making it easier for me to use than
Windows or Mac OS X (I am an Apple fan, btw - but Apple made newer
versions of OS X difficult to use on my hardware, so I haven't used a
recent version of OS X in some time)

> 
> BTW anyone care to help with my problem getting Slimserver 5.4.0 to start up
> correctly?

In fc3 for me it was as simple as installing the rpm.
I did notice that in the rpm spec file they did something I really
dislike - they turned off the autoreqprov (common with perl) without
then specifying what specifically IS required. It may be a dependency
issue that you are having.

To fulfill dependencies, I personally only use stuff packaged by rpm -
and I'm picky about my repositories - I only use fedora,
fedora-extras, rpm.livna.org, and (for java) jpackage.org.

If something I want isn't in one of those repositories - then I build
my own rpm, with few exceptions (realplayer, slimserver are only two I
can think of).

One thing I am planning on doing when my SB2 arrives is taking the
slimserver 6 src.rpm and cleaning up the spec file so that it meats
the Fedora Extras packaging guidelines (and specifying the
dependencies), and then submit it to rpm.livna.org - so that for
Fedora users, installing it will be painless. Unfortunately it will
have to go into rpm.livna.org because the mp3 dependency (and faad2
dependency) can only be filled by packages with patent distribution
issues, hence rpm.livna.org

I wish I knew what was giving you issues with slimserver.
Some thought - disable SELinux
Get the src.rpm - comment out the disabling of autoreqprov - build the
rpm, and do a test install to see what (if any) dependencies rpm
complains about.

Oh - as an FYI - the place where I see the most useful help for Fedora is

http://www.linuxquestions.org/

in the Fedora forum.


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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless vs. FLAC

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 01:22:21 -0800, Phil Karn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Todd Larason wrote:
> 
> > Can you point me to documentation for the Vorbis metadata?  I've scanned
> > vorbis.com and xiph.org, and I'm just not finding it.
> 
> Start here:
> 
> http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html
> 
> I decided on Vorbis for my meta data partly because I have a large
> collection of classical CDs, and whoever defined the MP3 ID tags
> obviously just wasn't thinking about classical music. The Vorbis comment
>   conventions aren't complete, but they're a big improvement over MP3
> tags, and more importantly they're free-format and extensible. E.g.,
> when ripping piano and violin concertos I easily added "SOLOIST" tags
> even though no software currently pays attention to them. I figure
> they're not that important right now, and support for it can always be
> added later.
> 
> The other convention I strongly recommend when tagging classical music
> is to make sure each TITLE tag is self contained. If a work spans
> several tracks, I'll include the name of the work in each TITLE comment.
> For example, if a CD contains Beethoven's 9th symphony in 4 tracks, then
> I'll use TITLE tags that look like this:
> 
> TITLE=Symphony 9 - I. Allegro ma non troppo un poco maestoso
> TITLE=Symphony 9 - II.Scherzo, Molto vivace
> TITLE=Symphony 9 - III. Adagio molto e cantabile
> TITLE=Symphony 9 - IV. Presto, Allegro assai
> 
> This is important because many classical CDs contain several unrelated
> symphonies or concertos, sometimes by multiple composers. You can't use
> the ALBUM comment for this purpose, because it really ought to be the
> same for every track on the same CD, even if it contains more than one
> work. iTunes has a "GROUP" tag that seems to be designed for this exact
> purpose, but it's not in the Vorbis comment conventions, no software
> supports it, and it's important enough that I wanted something that
> would be displayed by existing software like the Slimserver.

There are issues in other areas - for example, some CD's will have
more than one artist - U2 for example, the album Rattle and Hum.

It has a song that is both U2 and BB King.

If you properly lable the artist as U2 and BB King, then the song does
not show up in a listing of just U2 unless you specify "artist
includes U2". Then on the same album there is "Freedom for my People"
which isn't U2 at all, and then there is Jimi Hendrix "star spangled
banner" introducing a song of theirs. And there's "still haven't found
what I'm looking for" which is U2 and that gospel choir. That album
really messes up ID3 for accurate tagging and proper display of songs
when you want to see what you have by "U2"

There should be one tag for artist that is the displayed artist, and
another tag for artist that is used for the primary artist on the CD -
in the above example, U2.

I also wish there was a release date in addition to the regular date.
The regular date is suppose to be when the song was recorded, but a
release date would be really nice to have for songs that have been
remastered and then released again - some artists (I believe Rush and
Zeppelin, for example) have had their songs remastered multiple times
- initial mastering for when the vinyl was released, a digital
remastering when they first went to CD, another digital remastering
when digital remastering vastly improved, etc.

It would be really nice to have those dates available, with the date
tag for the song being that of the original recording.

That can be done easily enough with vorbis comments like what flac
uses, it isn't so easy with ID3 tags.

Supposedly (or so I've been told, never tried) mp3 can be put in an
ogg container and have vorbis tags used with it - but few players
would know what to do with it, so it isn't done. Same thing with mp3
in mpeg4 container (which lame is allegedly considering as an option
for the future - or so I've heard, not from lame - but from forums
etc.)

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Re: [slim] SB2 and FLAC

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:35:54 -0800, Phil Karn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Shorten still seems to be popular on bt.etree.org and other sites where
> audience recordings of taper-friendly bands are traded. I can't figure
> out why, as flac seems to be superior to shorten in every way. FLAC
> files are about 5% smaller, and they support metatags.

It's mostly habit - these people have been using shorten for eons and
have scripts that automate their process etc.

When I get such files I transcode to flac for my own purposes.

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[slim] Re: Squeezebox2

[Michael Peters]

> I will eventually re-encode all of my CDs to flac, ogg and mp3
> simultaneously (with a custom script).

That's kind of what I do know.
I actually rip to flac (well, I use cdparanoia and have a set of
scripts I use to create metadata - I don't use the lookup services,
they are wrong too often - so it's a little more work, but worth.

Then the flacs get moved off to my flac drive - and I transcode to mp3
and copy those to my music directory.

I don't play flacs, I use them strictly for archival purposes - I'm
sure they sound better even on my stereo (not the best - better
speakers are needed) but the mp3's are good enough.

Ripping to flac (or any lossless) really is the best thing because you
never have to rip it again, unless you lose your flac drive and don't
have them backed up.

Most people I am sure are aware of this, but I bring it up because a
LOT of people spend hours ripping to aac or ogg or mp3 or whatever -
and then they have to do it all over if they want/need to use a new
format (or an updated better encoder for the same format). Ripping to
flac avoids all that mess.


On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:36:43 -0800, Joshua Uziel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Mike Kozlowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [050310 11:54]:
> > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005, Robin Bowes wrote:
> > 
> > >>those of us who use ogg, having the server decode it and re-encode to
> > >>flac instead of sending pcm is going to make a lot more sense.
> > >
> > >It's probably not worth the CPU to do this, if it's even doable in real 
> > >time. I would either convert all your oggs to flac, or stream in PCM.
> > 
> > This sounds inconsistent with what Slim people have said previously.
> 
> I will eventually re-encode all of my CDs to flac, ogg and mp3
> simultaneously (with a custom script).  I want flac on a future file
> server I'll build up for the squeezebox, I prefer ogg to take on my
> iRiver H340 and my laptop, and I want mp3 just in case.
> 
> That said, I've done only ogg to date... with my wireless SB1, I  was
> doing PCM, but that cut out a bit for me... especially with either
> network traffic or running the microwave.  The problem wasn't that bad,
> but I've been using 320kbps lame re-encoding and haven't had the problem
> at all.
> 
> Re-encoding to mp3 with lame is _by_far_ more expensive CPU-wise than
> having it re-encode and send flac.  In the short term, the flac option
> is better for me with ogg... and better in the long term as well when I
> re-rip everything with flac.
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Re: [slim] Apple Lossless vs. FLAC

[Michael Peters]

Yes - currently there is not a working flac plugin for QuickTime
(which is needed to manage flac in iTunes)

What I do is rip to flac, transcode via a shell script from flac to
mp3 (lame 192VBR), and use mp3 on my iPod.

iTunes doesn't know about my flac files, but it doesn't need to either.

aac might give me better quality at same bitrate, but I'm not
convinced - and even with faad, aac isn't as well supported generally
- IE I can play mp3 CD's in numerous cars, can't play aac CD's ... so
for me, flac + mp3 is the best combo for archiving/mobile
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Re: [slim] Squeezebox2

[Michael Peters]

> 
> Utter rubbish.
> 
> Vinyl has more resolution than 16/44.1, just for starters.

Vinyl is analog. The question is wether or not vinyl has the
resolution such that a blind test can tell a difference between 16bit
and higher, between 44.1KHz and higher.

I will search for the blind test I saw done, perhaps the folks at
hydrogen audio might know about them - but human perception most
certainly affects how we hear something, there's no denying that at
all.

> 
> These days, the number of poorly designed studies in all fields is 
> skyrocketing.

Do you know of a properly designed study?
The question isn't wether or not more information will be recorded -
the question is can people hear a difference.

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Re: [slim] Best stand-alone setup for SlimServer

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:21:05 -0800, Marshall Clow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I'm going to try a mac mini (as soon as it arrives).
> Small, silent, Firewire, USB2, 100-T, 802.11 G.

Mac Mini's really are nice.
Sorry for going off topic - but the small form and good looks really
is a big plus.

I'm going to be using a shuttle myself, though, for slimserver - the
cost is about the same and I have to assemble the shuttle, but by
going with a shuttle, I have a PCI slot and 2 standard hard drive
bays, two ram slots, standard optical bay, and don't have to worry
about the fact that the broadcom chip doesn't work in PPC Linux yet
(being ppc, NDISwrapper doesn't work)

I am getting a couple minis at some point - one for the kitchen
(recipes) - it will also run Linux and will be wireless, though
wireless through a bridge - and another mini for OS X.

They just really are that nice, underpowered a little perhaps - but class.

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Re: [slim] Gapless playback with mp3 - another shot

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:50:45 -0800, Phil Karn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can somebody give me some background on gapless playback? I don't
> understand why it's a big problem.

I'll try in a non technical way.

The mp3 container has to be specific size increments, so you end up
with empty data at the end of most tracks.

The hack to make mp3 gapless is just that - a hack, it steals bits
from the next song during encode to make the file be the perfect size
to not have empty filler.

With mp3's encoded this way, some players can achieve gapless with
mp3, but it's a hack since it takes some bits from the next track to
do so.

There is some talk of putting mp3 in an mpeg4 container, which would
allow "true" gapless (no theft of bits needed) but I don't know if
players will ever support. I think winamp already does, but I think
they are one of the only ones.

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Re: [slim] Best stand-alone setup for SlimServer

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 17:26:42 -0500, Jeff Fila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What are your thoughts on the best stand-alone server set up. I'm
> building a server that's sole purpose is to run SlimServer. I was
> thinking about ClarkConnect in stand-alone mode. That way I could
> manage it from a web interface if I wanted to.
> 
> Any other suggestions? I'd also like to be able to connect an external
> USB or Firewire drive to it to add more music, but I guess I could
> just do it through Samba instead.

If you slap linux on it - you can turn on xdmcp and remotely log into
it through your favorite X11 gui desktop environment.

FireWire support in Linux seems to be spotty but is getting better.
Most PCI cards do work, it's the onboard firewire that sometimes don't
- I know the nforce2 firewire works (at least for me) - but some
onboard firewire controllers don't (yet anyway).

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox2

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:18:40 +0100, / wrote:
> >
> If all audio decoding is now done in software, is there any chance the
> Squeezebox2 will ever decode ogg natively? I have most of my music in
> ogg format, and the way they are played now (with decoding-recoding on
> the server side) is not really optimal.

Set it to transcode to flac (or pcm with pre squeeze2) instead of mp3
and the audio shouldn't degrade any because there is no lossy encode
of the vorbis encoded.

But yeah - ogg decoding on the squeezebox would be nice. I stopped
using ogg and went back to mp3 because almost no devices supported it
... that needs to change. I prefer free (as in speech). Software
patents (imho) generally suck (as in american beer).

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox2

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 08:19:14 +0100, Olav Sunde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is very good news indeed! I'll order another SB immediately. Is
> streaming of 24bit PCM possible in the SB2? I have a collection of FLAC
> files in 24/96 from my favorite vinyl albums that I cannot play on my
> current SB...

I don't recall where - but I remember seeing a blind study that
determined anything above 12bit PCM on vinyl to digital recording,
even with audiophile grade stylus and preamp and A/D converter, was
undistinguishable - the audio from vinyl just did not have the
resolution for it to make a difference.

The recomondation was to rip vinyl to standard 16/44.1 for that reason.

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox2

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 23:03:18 -0800, Steven Spies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Native FLAC and Cross Fading on the SB2, Right On! Please tell me the
> SB2 supports FLAC ReplayGain, fingers crossed.

If not, I'm sure it would be relatively easy to add it since it's done
in software, correct?

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox2

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 21:30:01 -0800, Sean Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> FLAC: for reduced bandwidth usage

WooHoo!
That has the added benefit of flac not needing to be decoded
slimserver side, correct?

> 
> Bridging: yes, Squeezebox2 can share its wireless connection with a
> wired ethernet device connected through its (100Mbps) ethernet port.
> This allows other devices in the home theatre, such as Xboxen,
> Playstations, Tivos, or HTPCs to connect wirelessly to your access
> point.

WooHoo#2!

> 
> Pony: there is a discount code, "FREEPONY". Enter this on the order
> page to get $20 off on either the wired or the wireless model.

A final WooHoo!
Glad I waited - I almost bought when the price plop happened.

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Re: [slim] 48khz sampling rate plays slow

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:03:15 +, Andrew Lucas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I was messing with WAV's recorded with a 48khz sampling rate, on my
> squeezebox's these play back slow regardless of using internal or external
> DAC's, is this what I should expect?

Do they work properly if encoded as mp3?
I'm just curious if my 48khz music encoded as mp3 will work fine through slim

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Re: [slim] MP3 quality on repeat copies

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 02:17:46 -0800, John L Fjellstad
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 08:33:32AM -, Bruce Hartley wrote:
> > So are you saying that a FLAC album takes between 360 and 720 MB?

flac sizes for five albums -

1) Chagall Guevara - Chagall Guevara - 350.8 MB flac, 72 MB lame 192VBR
2) U2 - War - 278.3 MB flac, 53.6 MB lame 192VBR
3) Arlo Guthrie - Alice's Restaurant - 195.2 MB flac, 48.4 MB lame 192VBR
4) Cracker - Kerosene Hat - 429.9 MB flac, 99.0 MB lame 192VBR
5) Kimi Hayes Band - Red 14 - 350.9 MB flac, 61.7 MB lame 192VBR

Average ratio of flac to lame 192VBR - 4.8

That's with preset-standard (192 VBR), not preset-extreme.

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Re: [slim] Re: MP3 Tag Fix - Recommendations

[Michael Peters]

flac I believe does record the charset used to write the tags, rather
than assuming it is one in particular. At least if using their native
tags. No wether the playback software respects that or not is a
different question entirely.

As far as being "future safe" - if you used the charset specified by
the spec, then future players should see what version of the spec was
used and assume that is the charset.

Unfortunately, a lot of software doesn't.

gtkpod (app for feeding iPod from x11 desktops) for example assumes
the system character set unless you specify otherwise - which is a
PITA if you have some aac files correctly tagged as utf8 and mp3's
correctly tagged in 8859-1 - not a problem for me, as I only use mp3,
but it still is a bug.

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Re: [slim] Balancing

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 17:30:58 +0100, Christian Pernegger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >A future device might want to incorporate an ability to adjust balance
> >between speakers via the remote device.
> 
> I'd rather have less preamp functionality on a component, not
> more. If I could I would even disable the analog volume control
> and fix it at standard output level.

Yeah - I agree. It should put out at a standard line level and let the
users audio equipment do amplifications/balance/equilization etc.

When components do this, they tend to be lower quality in order to
keep the cost of the component down and thus competitive. It's better
is the receiver does this.

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Re: [slim] More Than One Server

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 17:21:02 -0700, Chuck Pelto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> 
> I've tried the http://192.168.0.XXX:9000/ and the
> http://my-computer.local:9000/. Neither worked. The other machine just
> sat their spinning it's wheels. However, it never did 'timeout'.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chuck

Might you have a firewall blocking remote port 9000 access?

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Re: [slim] More Than One Server

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 16:31:19 -0700, Chuck Pelto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 6, 2005, at 9:35 AM, Christian Pernegger wrote:
> 
> > You can have a maximum of one SlimServer running per device,
> > but you can access its web interface on as many computers
> > as you like, it runs on port 9000 as standard.
> 
> And just how does one accomplish that? Going into a browser on another
> machine and enter http://localhost:9000/ does cut it.
> 
> What is the proper syntax?

http://iporhostnameofmachinerunningslin:9000/

IE -

http://slimserver.myhomenetwork.org:9000/

or

http://192.168.1.17:9000/

(for the first to work - the hostname - it has to resolve, either from
an /etc/hosts file or a lan dns or whatever the windows equivalent of
/etc/hosts is. For the second, you just need to know the IP address of
the machine running it)

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Re: [slim] Convert AAC to FLAC ?

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 17:36:56 -0500, Sally Shears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm... On my Mac OS X, looking at an AVI file (plays in VLC, not in
> QuickTime), I see:
> 
> $file xyz.avi
> xyz.avi: RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI
> 
> So, it still won't tell me what I really want to know: Which
> application should I use to lay the file.
> 
> Ugh.

If it's AVI then I'm guessing the video is divx and you actually may
be able to play it in QuickTime if you install the DivX plugin for
QuickTime.

http://www.divx.com/divx/mac/

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox install creates IP address conflict -- resolved!

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 08:53:32 -0800, Phil Karn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Roy Owen wrote:
> > Don't be suprised if the problem re-occurs.  It's been my experience
> > that problems that fix themselves will bite you in the backside at the
> > most inconvient time.
> 
> Yeah. That's why you should take the time to assign permanent addresses
> to each one of your devices, and use dynamic addressing only for guests.

or properly configure the dhcp server ...

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Re: [slim] A question about SB audio frequencies

[Michael Peters]

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 18:38:08 -, Patrick Dixon
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I assume that any music ripped from CD (whether coded as lossy or lossless)
> will be replayed by the SB at 44.1KHz.
> 
> So when (if ever) is 48KHz replay required?

I ripped the audio from my U2 Rattle & Hum DVD
I believe it is 48KHz and not 44.1KHz
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Re: [slim] MP3 Tag Fix - Recommendations

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 18:43:04 -0800, Michael Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> So before I fix tags - I first run
> 
> export LANG="en-US"

That should have read - 

export LANG="en_US"

(my system LANG is en_US.UTF-8 - which is no good for a lot of mp3
players, they assume en_US because the mp3 tag itself doesn't have a
way to tell them otherwise)

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Re: [slim] MP3 Tag Fix - Recommendations

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 11:04:32 -0800, Bill Bates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a little off topic, but I thought the knowledge of this group
> could help me.
> 
> I have a rather large music collection that I use with Slimserver. A
> good many of my MP3 tags are, shall we say, messed up!
> 
> I am looking for a good MP3 Tag Fixer (free is good) for both the Mac
> and Windows platforms. Do you have recommendations?

In OSX you can use the cli program id3v2

There might be a windows shell port as well.
It is all cli - but it works extremely well for me, only thing to
watch for is your LANG variable - if your LANG environmental variable
is set to a UTF-8 setting, some special characters won't display
properly in mp3 jukeboxes because (as I understand it) there is not
proper UTF8 support in the ID3 specification, so it doesn't record the
LANG the tag is written in.

So before I fix tags - I first run

export LANG="en-US"

(that's in Linux)
Then I can use id3v2 to fix tags. And being a cli app, it takes
wildcards for arguements - IE

id3v2 -a "Janis Joplin" *.mp3

will change the artist to Janis Joplin for all mp3 files in the
directory (and it will add ID3v2 tags to files that were done in ID3V1
at the same time)

id3v2 homepage:

http://id3v2.sourceforge.net/

-=-
That being said - the way I usually tag files is through lame when
transcoding from flac, and I use metaflac to make sure my flac files
are properly tagged.

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Re: [slim] US Supreme Court

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 17:55:09 -0600, Ben Klaas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > But it cracks me up
>  > that these companies' even try to pretend that they created
>  > their software for anything other than illegal file sharing (be
>  > it music or other).
> 
> I get new Linux distros from BitTorrent when they come out. Everything
> from the Mozilla foundation has a bittorrent link. So, there are
> definitely non-pirate applications that P2P is good for...

I have seen P2P used by university students who want to colaborate
with each other on a project and either don't have the technical know
how to set up a ftp/webdav/etc server, or don't want to go through the
paperwork to have university computer services do it for them.

They could colaborate by sharing files over aim or something - but
with P2P they just have to leave the computers on.

Personally I think a better solution is webDAV or ftp etc. but those
are more difficult to set up than a P2P app for the average person.

P2P has its place - I don't think it should be used to violate
copyright law, but it does have its legitimate uses.

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Re: [slim] New Squeezebox?

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:18:21 +0800, Arthur Cheng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Would be even better with Slimdevices allow trade-in/ upgrade!

It's called eBay ...

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox installation creates IP address conflict

[Michael Peters]

> 
> Not sure if you're running the Sveasoft firmware, but if you are
> adding an entry like "10.0.0.3 00:04:20:05:91:BF sbox" to the 'Dhcpd'
> section of the 'Management' section under 'Administration' on the
> web interface will do what you are asking.

I have no such section (stock, 3.03.1 firmware)

There's a management section administration.
It has 

(Password)
Local Router Access
Web Access
Remote Router Access

(UPnP)

That's it. On mine anyway.


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Re: [slim] Squeezebox installation creates IP address conflict

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 00:35:12 -0500, Jay Sissom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks, but that isn't what I want to do.  I want to make the router
> always assign a specific IP address based on the Mac address in my
> ethernet card.  Robin said all the routers he has seen allow this, so
> I would like him to explain it for WRT54G.  This is one of the most
> popular ones out there.  I can't find this setting.  I'd like to know
> where it is hiding.
> 
> I know how to change the lease on DHCP and how to assign static
> addresses.  Both useful tasks, but neither are what I would like to
> do.

Having the dhcp server assign the same IP based with an infinite lease
based upon the mac address is no different than a static IP address.
You could try putting in a very large number of minutes for the lease
time - or see if there is a firmware that will do that (imho it should
have the option)

Try 5 in the lease time (over a month) and see if that does it for you.

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[slim] Serious Side - Supports for emergency feeds etc?

[Michael Peters]

Listening to the radio right now - just had an amber alert for a girl
kidnapped, with a description of the car, napper, etc.

Also, occasionally there are other important feeds etc.

AFAIK they do not broadcast these alerts on the internet, but if my
local county or city did set up a shoutcast server to do so, is there
a way that slimserver could acknowledge it and switch from current
playlist to that feed? Most people I'm guessing wouldn't want it, but
they are something I do like to pay attention to - the amber alert,
for example - the city the kidnapping happened in, I wouldn't be
surprised if they did come through here on their way north - so it's
good to know the car and description in the event that I see it -
that's often how these sicko's get caught, and the first 48 hours is
critical.

I suppose one would have to configure their slimserver for the local
shoutcast feed if one existed, and there would need to be a protocol
by which slimserver knows the feed is active so it could switch. So it
would probably require some sort of cooperation to create a standard.
I would use it if the functionallity was there, though - and with how
sucky most radio stations are now days, internet radio and mp3's are
what people are listening to.

I think there does need to be a way we can be reached in those
scenarios - preferably by an opt in (IE I don't want to force it on
people).

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox installation creates IP address conflict

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 19:43:34 -0500, Jay Sissom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a linksys WRT54G.  Can you tell me how to do this?  I can find
> no setting to allow this in the WRT54G.

I also have that router.
The default lease time is a day.

Go to Setup - Basis Setup

Scroll down to DHCP Server

set the lease time value to 0 (that will reserve an IP for the same
machine for 24 hours)
Set the starting IP address to something like 192.168.1.100 - and only
use values below 100 for your local machines that you want to have a
static IP address.

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox installation creates IP address conflict

[Michael Peters]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 14:00:36 -0800, Phil Karn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> The best way is to assign a fixed, static IP address to each host on
> your own local network. There's really no point in allocating IP
> addresses dynamically to your own hosts given that you have such an
> abundant supply of 192.168.0.xxx addresses. Dynamic assignment also
> makes it difficult for your hosts to find and talk to each other (unless
> they use Apple's Rendezvous). However, it's still useful to keep DHCP
> and dynamic addressing around for the benefit of guests with laptops, so
> you don't really want to turn it off entirely.

The problem is a mis configuration of the dhcp server.
It should not have been assigning IP's in the same range that some are
manually set.

.1 is my router.
I reserver .2 through .10 for utility purposes (print server, local
yum server, dmz machine, caching name server, etc. - some of those are
actually same box, but done through multihoming so I can seperate them
in future if I need to)

11 through 99 I reserve for static IP's when needed.
When something requests an IP - it gets one from the 100 to 149 range
- 50 dhcp addresses are far far far more than I'll ever use.

150 through 254 I just do not use, and probably never will.

But that was the problem - something was assinged an IP address that
was in use in the static range. My squeezebox will most certainly be
dhcp, it has no need to be static. My slimserver currently is on my
main box (.11) but is likely in the near future to be moved to a
shuttle, where it will get a utility IP address.

Using dhcp is fine as long as you have no need to talk to the box from
another, and as long as your static IP's are not in the range the dhcp
server controls.

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Re: [slim] iTunes Downloaded Music Questions (related to Slimp3)

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:59:06 -0800, Jack Coates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> Yeah, I like him. I also like Lara St. John and (to a lesser degree)

I love Lara St. John!
Another one from Magnatune I like is Lisa DeBenedictis.

Over at http://www.mindawn.com/ - there is a really neat band, Frogg
Café - their jazzy/alternative rock kind of grows on you.

The best indie I've found so far, and just found her, is Kimi Hayes

http://www.kimihayes.com/

Her music supposedly is on iTMS and a few WMA drm's sites, the CD's
though can be gotten from cdbaby - and of course, don't have the
annoying DRM ;)

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Re: [slim] Linux box to stream music, interface look familiar?

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:16:49 -0800, Pbox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The point I was going to make, excatly.
> 
> However there is one more thing to note. Linspire also releases their
> code under GPL. So it is a give and take.
> 
> Slimserver guys should take a note of the lsongs application.
> 
> http://mp3beamer.com/ss_lsongs-syncing.html
> 
> This would make a pretty nice itunes replacement, and could be easily
> bundled with slimserver. Even if the porting needs to get done onto
> Windows and OSX we are still talking about getting a gigantic bunch of
> work for free.

What does it use for its audio backend?
This sounds crazy - but other than mplayer (only for ripping DVD
audio, which I probably could do with gstreamer if I was willing to
play with the pipes) I personally (note the personally) refuse to use
any multimedia app for playing that does not use a gstreamer backend.
OK, sox is another exception.

The reason is because I think in many ways, LotD (my passion) is too
fragmented - there's mplayer, xine, gstreamer, and apps that use their
own. I think gstreamer is technically the best, and if focus is put
there - we can get better apps.

slimserver is different, I don't expect them to use gstreamer because
perl bindings don't exist yet (and python bindings are still fairly
new), and slimserver is expected to run on a host of operating systems
- some of which either do not have gstreamer or have it but use a
different multimedia backend.

I guess what I'm saying - I would rather see an app like Rhythmbox and
AmoroK get that functionallity than see a new app - yet another
jukebox player ... if it uses gstreamer, then I'm all for it.

GStreamer is nice because you add a plugin (which can be closed, it's
libraries are lgpl) and lots of apps now have support for the new
codec - that's the way it should be. But I guess I'm going off topic a
wee bit.

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Re: [slim] New Squeezebox?

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:15:05 -0800, kdf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoting Dave Dewey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> > Quoting Tom Goodacre ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> >
> > > Does anyone know what the plan is for the new squeezebox? Will it look
> > > massively different? Will it be much MUCH better? I want one now but don't
> > > know if I should wait for the new version to be released after all it is a
> > > lot of money that I'll be spending.
> > >
> > > Would be great if someone could shed some light on this matterany
> > > ideas??
> >
> > I've had the same suspicions, since they are out of stock everywhere.  I am
> > also in the market for a second wireless one, be good to know what's coming.
> 
> While Slim Devices are very open with the development of SlimServer and any
> details on the inner workings of Squeezebox or SliMP3, they are tight-lipped 
> in
> regard to future hardware.  The official stance on any hardware plans, near or
> far, is always no comment. As always, it is anyone's guess.

The recent price drop on the wired box is another possible indication ...
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Re: [slim] MP3beamer Questions and Answers

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:51:05 -0500, Jeffrey Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Yes most of my beefs with Linspire and now MP3beamer are with their
> marketing and lack of providing anything of substance while providing a
> charge on something you can get for free.


I do not like the distro myself either, I do not the default as root user etc.
However, Lindows/Linspire has in fact made signifigant contributions to Linux.

I have helped several people out with Fedora who did not even know
what Linux was until they bought a Linspire computer at Wallmart. In
that respect, it is a gateway distribution - and the users are free to
switch distro's if they want to, there is no lockin.

Lindspire also has done signifigant work on a GUI html editor. Yes, it
is based on code from Mozilla Composer, but they took that code and
extended it and actually have a very nice product.

Linspire managed to get the necessary licensing rights to include a
legal DVD player, etc.

I'm not fond of how the distribution works, I don't like some of the
solutions to common newbie issues they have come up, but the fact is
that they ARE coming up with solutions, and that is something I have
to respect.

That being said, this is a slim devices discussion list, not a "why
this distro or that distro" discussion thread. The beautiful thing
about GPL is that if you don't like a company, you can get the
products from another.

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Re: [slim] Gracefully ending one playlist and starting another?

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:53:23 -0800, kdf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >
> actually.the BEST way is submit a patch ;)

Some projects have votes for feature requests, and then collect
donations to be paid to a coder who submits a patch.

Not sure how well those kind of things work out, but the idea is nice
- those who want it can donate however much they are able, and the
programmer who implements it gets to pay his college loan.

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Re: [slim] switched to wireless -- now squeezebox reboots at random

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:33:05 -, Simon Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In Europe it seems that people "eat what is put
> > in front of them". But that's another story.
> 
> I thought it was the States that had a problem with obesity?

We eat fatter foods, not what is put in front of us ;)

The problem in the States is primarily fast foods, pizza delivery,
gobs of processed sugar candies, soda everywhere, and a general lack
of exercise. Many americans have forgotten how to cook.

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Re: [slim] Gracefully ending one playlist and starting another?

[Michael Peters]

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:34:38 -0600, momerath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I too think it would be a huge improvement in usability to be able to
> clear the playlist of all but the playing song from the remote and/or
> the web interface.

I third this.

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Re: [slim] Squeezebox and ZoneAlarm

[Michael Peters]

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 13:27:25 -0500, Maurice Poirier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> My Squeezebox (wired) will arrive on Tuesday. It will be connected to a
> router and my stereo. 
>   
> Will it work easily with the firewall ZoneAlarm (free edition) or should I
> look for another firewall? Thank you. 

zone alarm makes it easy to allow connections.
It should work without a hitch. When slimserver starts, it will notify
you that it is trying to make a connection - let it.


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Re: [slim] Linux box to stream music, interface look familiar?

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:21:21 -0800, Dave Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One more note: you'd think they would have included the SqueezeBox in
> the list of recommended players for feeding your stereo, but they left
> out both SqueezeBox and Roku. Hmm, think they don't want their customers
> reading about those products using SlimServer for free?

I think some people are reading too much into this.
This company is from the same CEO that started Lindows, which I did
not particularly like as a distro - but DID in fact give back to the
open source community, and continues to do so (they released a very
good WYSIWYG html editor, for example - that you can get the source to
without needing to buy their product)

GPL gives them the right to do what they are doing, so long as they
follow the rules.
Wether they contribute patches back or not is not necessary, any code
worth having will make its way back simply because they have to comply
with GPL themselves.

They aren't using a stolen project, GPL was written specifically to
allow software to be sold. For slim it sells hardware, for this group
that's primarily what it is doing as well.

Yes, it would be nice if they stated it was based on slimserver.
Maybe they don't because some of their changes break squeezebox
compatability? Maybe not, I don't know (I doubt it if the java thing
works)

But anyway - the software is licensed under GPL, so what they are
doing at least appears to be in spirit of GPL - and what I have seen
from the CEO - his products never interest me personally, but the
companies do give back to the community.

If it works with squeezebox, a free plug would be nice to the
developers of slimserver.
That is true, and hopefully that will come.

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Re: [slim] Linux box to stream music, interface look familiar?

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:31:00 -0800, kdf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I dont think GPL really stops anyone from taking and selling.  It does, 
> however,
> require source be available for download on request.
> 

I think they only have available to make it available to those that
they have distributed the product to (customers), but I'm not
positive.

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Re: [slim] Linux box to stream music, interface look familiar?

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:19:28 -0600, Michael Alletto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4933903950.html
> 
> Scroll down to the pictures of the web interface.  Does it look like
> slimserver to anyone else?  And they are charging $70 for the software
> only.  If they are really using slimserver but modified can they
> really charge for it?

Yes - if they provide the source to their customers (which they do if
it is perl)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ rpm -qi slimserver |grep "License"
Size: 21244838 License: GPL
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ 

That means anyone can modify it (or not) and sell it - as long as they
comply with the GPL - which means they make the source available to
anyone they distribute it to.

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Re: [slim] Bit-correct digital out on Squeezebox?

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:34:03 +0100, Steinar Bjaerum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> 
> I am thinking about playing an uncompressed WAV, recording the signal at the
> digital output and comparing the recording with the original WAV. 
> 
>  

Be careful when you are doing so - a lot of sound cards will resample
digital input.
AC97 cards do, for example (or so I've been told)

I believe M-Audio Audiophile 2496 does not, I don't know about their
other models.
Again, that is what I've been told. I have not done any testing
myself, mp3 at 192VBR is good enough for me (though I do archive
lossless in flac).

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Re: [slim] Wireless Rebooting (formerly My NOT goodwirelessexperience)

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:23:14 -0500, Christopher Jacob
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> My server is not wireless but the CAT5 that is plugged into it is missing
> the little retaining clip (keep forgetting to replace the cable)

You can replace just the end as well - don't need to replace the entire cable.

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Re: [slim] Forum Style rather than Lists

[Michael Peters]

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:26:44 -0600, momerath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Another solution is to use Gmail for your mailing lists.  It has a
> unique interface that closely resembles the flat-threaded forum style
> that seems most popular (I prefer branching threads personally).  Its
> also much faster than most web applications owing to its use of
> javascript moderated xml transactions (no page reloads).  If you need
> an invite, I have 50 to spare.

I second the gmail suggestion - it's actually a faster way to use
lists than a mail client on my hard disk.

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Re: [slim] switched to wireless -- now squeezebox reboots at random

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:21:23 -0800, Ralph Edington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> As far as I can tell, Squeezebox is COMPLETELY and TOTALLY WORTHLESS for the
> advertised purpose of "wireless music".

Maybe you got a bad unit.
Did you try contacting customer support?

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Re: [slim] My NOT good wireless experience

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:20:40 -0800, Phillip Kerman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I thought cracking WEP was relatively easy too.

It's not cake to crack - it takes collecting data for as long as a
month or so in order to have enough to do it. Sure, it can be done,
but it's a whole lot easier to just find one of the many unprotected
networks.

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Re: [slim] Gnome Panel Applet

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:16:21 +, Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  And also is there anyone interested in testing it when I`ve got something to 
> show?

I'd be more than willing to test such an applet.

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Re: [slim] My NOT good wireless experience

[Michael Peters]

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:26:03 -0700, John Hernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As a datapoint, you may try turning off WEP.  I'm not suggesting this as
> a good long-term solution, but you might consider something like MAC
> filtering if WEP is indeed the problem with your particular setup.

I don't have my squeezebox yet and I'm getting the wired version
(though slimserver is on a wireless box) - I would like to note that
it is rather trivial to sniff both MAC address and SSID key even if
SSID is not broadcast and MAC filtering is on. That may not be a
concern - I don't have WEP on myself, I'm not worried about people
using my connection for illegal stuff etc. but there are tools
specifically designed to take advantage of non encryption protected
networks, if you live where there are a lot of people going buy, etc.
or in an apartment, you may not want to disable WEP, last thing you
want is your IP associated with a child porn sting.

Turning WEP off might help diagnose the problem though, maybe you
should try 64 instead of 128?


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Re: [slim] Need advice on housing 30K of songs

[Michael Peters]

I have no idea about iTunes etc. but I do have a recomondation - if at
all possible, rip to flac - even if it means burning to DVD for space
reasons (it probably will)

You can fit quite a few albums in flac on a DVD-R, if you go with the
newer dual layer stuff you can fit even more albums in flac on a DVD.

The reason - flac is supported on just about every operating system (I
can't think of one where it isn't) and is an open standard, meaning it
isn't going to go away if some company decides to ditch it.
Additionally, it supports excellent tagging capabilities. You want to
go to something lossless because in 3 years or so, your client may
want them in a different lossy format - having ripped to flac allows
you to do that. And since flac supports excellent tagging, you won't
have to do any of that again once the flacs are properly tagged.

Only concern is how long the burned DVD backups would last.

EAC on Windows can use flac, and it's probably not too difficult to
script with cdparanoia on Linux (someone probably already has scripted
it for you, complete with cddb lookup etc. - just make sure it uses
cdparanoia in paranoia mode, might be an option - to ensure highest
quality rip cdparanoia is capable of)

I would seriously recommend you look through some of the forums at
hydrogenaudio - as the people there have a LOT of experience dealing
with absolutely massive collections.

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Re: [slim] Why I didn't buy a Squeezebox

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:25:31 -0800, George Van Wagner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know about others, but I'm perfectly willing to answer the
> question. I didn't buy a Squeezebox because every time I've looked at
> ordering one, the wireless units are listed as a 6-8 week wait.

Very first time I looked - they had wireless in stock.
Haven't seen them in stock since.

I'm going to be buying a wired anyway (once my eBay sales are
finalized etc.), though - so it doesn't make that much difference to
me, but I can understand your frustration.

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Re: [slim] Why didn't they buy a SqueezeBox?

[Michael Peters]

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:13:49 -0500, Chip Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> As someone who has abandoned his MP101, I'd encourage you to
> check out the MP101 mailing list(s)
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NetgearMP101Group/) before
> purchasing one.  95% of the messages are complaints and requests
> for help - the MP101 has a _very_ flaky wireless connection and
> gawdawful software (replaceable, though, by Twonkyvision).

Te wireless to ethernet bridge I'm looking at (for my LaserJet4) is a
wet54g - cheapest price from a dealer that gets decent seller reviews
is ~ $115 (US). The other wireless to ethernet adapters I've looked at
that are cheaper have very mixed reviews with respect to stability of
the connection, and/or come from retailers that do not have a good
customer service record when a customer has to RMA a product due to a
defect.

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Re: [slim] New Price on Squeezebox Wired!

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:10:36 -0800, Patrick Cosson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All,
> 
> We dropped the price on Squeezebox Wired!  It's now $169

WooHoo! :)

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Re: [slim] Why didn't they buy a SqueezeBox?

[Michael Peters]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:52:03 -0500, Jeffrey Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bennett, Gavin (LDN Int) wrote:
> 
> > The bit for SlimDevices to read, please make it.
> > a) WiFi at 80211.g
> > b) a lot cheaper
> > c) have a Unique Selling Point - the Open Source aspect is a good
> > USP but some people do not "get it" or even want it.
> > They see it as meaning that they to constantly download updates etc
> > d) to be ahead of the competition - currently the competition has
> > caught up and people like NetGear have a good network brand to sell
> > their products with.
> 
> a) I do not understand why this is so important to people.  If you
> really want G then get the wired only and get a Bridge.  For music and
> even FLAC, B is more than enough.

There are two issues. 1st is that adding 802.11b devices to an 802.11g
network does slow down the wireless network, some routers are better
than other in this respect.

As far as an 802.11g wireless to ethernet bridge, it is yet another
component - and they aren't cheap.

> 
> Now that said, it would be nice if the SB had a PC Card slot and we just
> install our own wifi card, however I can fully understand why they do
> not do this and that being Driver Support would be a NIGHTMARE.

Yes - driver support potentially would be a nightmare, though they
could possibly support one or two chipsets. Offering it in just
802.11g though is probably better, as it could behave as an 802.11b
device for 802.11b networks.

-=-

What I would like to see, from a Linux standpoint, is a slimserver
developer get sponsored by Fedora Extras to maintain the product in
the Fedora Extras repository. This would result in updates to the
software being pushed through whenever I yum update my system, rather
than me having to look for updates.


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