Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Ben Sandee]

On 12/5/06, Robin Bowes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



There are a few bugs with it still, e.g. if you shutdown the server
while playing a track the streaming process is not shutdown (or MySQL
for that matter) and the server won't start up again until that
streaming process is manually killed.



I tried that, shutting down with players running, and didn't have any
leftover processes (at least, as fast as I could type ps ax | grep slim).
I'm running debian + the .deb, so maybe it has something to do with the
startup/shutdown scripts.  Maybe the one that's in the .deb has some extra
smarts.  When I shut down, indeed the player kept playing for a LONG time,
because I happened to be streaming with an extra-long buffer.  Once the
buffer was exhausted it stopped.

Anyway, apparently YMMV as always in life. :-)

Ben
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Robin Bowes]

Ben Sandee wrote:
> On 12/5/06, *Robin Bowes*
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> You're talking about two different things here.
> 
> I personally think that slimserver needs re-architecting to use multiple
> threads/processes/programs so, for example, audio streaming is
> unaffected by browsing a large playlist. 
> 
> 
> I believe to some extent this is already in place -- enable Web server
> forking from Server Settings -> Performance.  I get a forked sever
> instance for each player.  I suspect that since this is successful they
> are working to apply this to Windows as well.  I'm not tracking the 7.0
> branch though -- maybe it's already done.

Yeah, I know about that Ben.

I ran it on my "old" server. I've just moved to a new server and haven't
enabled it yet.

There are a few bugs with it still, e.g. if you shutdown the server
while playing a track the streaming process is not shutdown (or MySQL
for that matter) and the server won't start up again until that
streaming process is manually killed.

Perhaps I'll give it anther go and create some bug reports.

R.

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Raphaël HUCK]

What I'd like to see is a complete rewrite for a *really slim* 
SlimServer, for example in C, so that it can be integrated easily in 
embedded devices.


I dunno if Father Christmas heard me ;)

--Raphael
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Ben Sandee]

On 12/5/06, Robin Bowes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



You're talking about two different things here.

I personally think that slimserver needs re-architecting to use multiple
threads/processes/programs so, for example, audio streaming is
unaffected by browsing a large playlist.



I believe to some extent this is already in place -- enable Web server
forking from Server Settings -> Performance.  I get a forked sever instance
for each player.  I suspect that since this is successful they are working
to apply this to Windows as well.  I'm not tracking the 7.0 branch though --
maybe it's already done.

Ben
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Robin Bowes]

spacemarmot wrote:
> SadGamerGeek;155209 Wrote: 
>> Why?
>>
>> Richard
> 
> Since SlimServer is a non-trivial open source application, the ability
> to recruit quality contributors is hindered by clinging to an obsolete
> and misapplied programming language.  SlimServer will not have much of
> a future if it cannot compete for developer interest with more
> forward-looking designs.  You can think of starting a migration as a
> cost today or you can think of it as an investment in future
> productivity.

You're talking about two different things here.

I personally think that slimserver needs re-architecting to use multiple
threads/processes/programs so, for example, audio streaming is
unaffected by browsing a large playlist.

However, I do not agree with your assertion that perl is "obsolete and
misapplied". Any problems with slimserver are *not* because it is
written on perl.

R.

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

On 12/4/06, spacemarmot
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


SadGamerGeek;155209 Wrote:
> Why?
>
> Richard

Since SlimServer is a non-trivial open source application, the ability
to recruit quality contributors is hindered by clinging to an obsolete
and misapplied programming language.  SlimServer will not have much of
a future if it cannot compete for developer interest with more
forward-looking designs.  You can think of starting a migration as a
cost today or you can think of it as an investment in future
productivity.


patches welcome.

--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Pat Farrell]

Jacob Potter wrote:
> On 12/3/06, Pat Farrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> First, Perl and Java are usually compiled into byte code that is
>> peephole optimized using JIT techniques.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Perl isn't JIT compiled. Java, .NET, and ActionScript
> 3 are, Python can be with Psyco (on 32-bit x86), and I think Perl 6
> will be, but Perl 5 just interprets the bytecode.

OK, it will be true RSN. Every language that is getting
any active development is moving there. And peephole optimizations
are taught in any grad school compiler course.

Not direction applicable to this thread, but some of the JIT code is
pretty impressive. Proper optimization for an ancient Pentium-4
is quite different than that for a modern Dual Core or AMD X2.
The days of running a single binary compiled for generic X386 code
are rapidly drawing to a close.

> I absolutely agree with all your other points though. I've toyed with
> the idea of a Python rewrite myself, but it really wouldn't be worth
> it.

Yeah, I'm working on making the Mandriva installation a little less
obscure, as that is a suitably low hanging fruit that it is worth
the time.

-- 
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jacob Potter]

On 12/3/06, Pat Farrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

First, Perl and Java are usually compiled into byte code that is
peephole optimized using JIT techniques.


I'm pretty sure Perl isn't JIT compiled. Java, .NET, and ActionScript
3 are, Python can be with Psyco (on 32-bit x86), and I think Perl 6
will be, but Perl 5 just interprets the bytecode.

I absolutely agree with all your other points though. I've toyed with
the idea of a Python rewrite myself, but it really wouldn't be worth
it.

- Jacob
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

On 12/2/06, Pat Farrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...


But the reality is that unless someone completes a rewrite in [insert
your favorite language here] the SlimServer is written in Perl and
maintained and enhanced by software engineers who are comfortable,
productive and experienced in perl.


...

/me applauds

that was so much more complete of a smackdown than the usual "patches
welcome". You must have eaten your Wheaties this morning :)
--
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So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Pat Farrell]

jerry_mcbride wrote:
> My second suggestion... Use something other than PERL... PLEASE! The
> interpreter overhead is horrendous! It pretty much eliminates using
> slimserver on lowend hardware... especially if you toss the likes of
> mysql into the picture... C would be heavenly...

Not to want to jump into a theological argument, because it flat out
isn't going to happen.

But what makes you think that the Perl overhead is significant in this
usage? And how in the world would you suggest C as a replacement?

While there is no argument that languages such as Java or Perl are not
as fast as well optimized C or assembly for processor intensive usage,
your statement appears to be based on a couple of faulty assumptions.

First, Perl and Java are usually compiled into byte code that is
peephole optimized using JIT techniques. The JIT optimizations are
decent and get better all the time. While it is true that Intel
developed the Itanium spec as a VLIW processor with the assumption that
it would be far faster than X86 processors for applications developed in
the late 1990s and beyond, the Itanium has not delivered, and sure isn't
the basis for modern things like the AMD X2 or Intel Duo Core.
Depending on the benchmark, the difference is really that that big a
deal, maybe a factor of two or three, not the 30 to 100 times that
statements such are yours seem to rely upon. I've done serious
cryptography in Java (RSA, SHA, DES) and had it be within the above
factor of two or three, and you can't get much more CPU bound than crypto.

Secondly, SlimServer is an application that generates HTML displayed in
a browser from data in a database or disk. It is not CPU bound at all.
It is communication bound, it gets a little data, reformats it, spits it
out to the browser, waits forever for a user response, gets a little
data, reformats it, talks to the database... Repeat forever.
Taking the SlimServer perl code, itself, to ZERO cpu usage is not going
to have a big impact in throughput.

As importantly, I can't see the point of your "low end" hardware idea.
For years I ran SlimServer on a free computer. It was an ancient P3-500
that I had laying around unused in my basement. You can't get much lower
end than that. It ran fine until the day when the CPU fan clogged with
dust bunnies -- it was probably already five years old at the time.

Perhaps our definitions of low end hardware are different.
My definition is something like a TS-7250 from EmbeddedArm.com.
Sells for under $200 quantity one retail. But the cost of a slimserver
is not the CPU, its the disks and memory.

But the reality is that unless someone completes a rewrite in [insert
your favorite language here] the SlimServer is written in Perl and
maintained and enhanced by software engineers who are comfortable,
productive and experienced in perl.

On your suggestion of C, I know C, I've written C professionally, and I
prefer it over C++. I even am paying a professional software engineer to
develop in C right now. But that is for an embedded application that has
to run in 32KB of RAM. The SlimServer is developed with OO, you simply
can't do that in C. Plus the SlimServer leverages a huge set of CPAN
modules for things like MP3 file processing, directory structure
recursion, HTML generation, international language support, etc.
It is impossible to think about doing such a rich system in C with a
handful of developers.

I've toyed with the idea of making an equivalent "port" to Java. but
haven't had the time to even get started. And as folks talk about
a port, the product is being enhanced. Catching up is a real challenge,
even if someone really wanted to re-implement it. No one has presented
any reasons, other than theology, behind even suggesting a change.

-- 
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[ron thigpen]

Mikael wrote:

I (and my wife(o=)would realy like to have sync between 2 or more
Squeezeboxes/Transporters when loged on to Squeeze Network.


You may find this enhancement request to be pertinent:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3114

Sync'ing players with SN and Pandora would probably have a similar (if 
not identical) technical solution.


--rt
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Simon Still]

On 11/17/06, Aragorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:



Hi,
I believe that before going for new features, it would be more
important to:
1) Finishing the specification (the new Wiki SlimServerSpecification is
a good start)
2) Establish a set of standard test
3) Run the tests and fix the bug
4) Create a complete documentation and a process that make sure that
documentation and releases are always aligned



I'm with Aragorn here.  I've had no issues with the latest release version
of 6.5 but i still think the interface and responsiveness have huge room for
improvement.  I've got the latest version of iTunes and it's a world away
from Slimserver.

Give me something that does 80% of what i want it to but does it reliably,
24.7, is  easy to configure and responsive rather than something with
features i don't even understand the justification for.
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phil Meyer]

>What do playlists mean to you?
>
I don't generally use static playlists.  I usually listen to either albums or 
random tracks/smart playlists (eg. Erland's plugins).

I do sometimes use playlists:

1. For reminding me later when I am back at my server that I have to fix some 
tags (eg. an artist that hasn't got an artist sort tag).  When I am listening 
to random tracks and discover a fault, I add the track to a static playlist 
"Bad Tags" (via my PlaylistMan plugin).

2. I used to add radio stations to static playlists.  Nowadays those playlists 
have gone, as I use "MyPicks" plugin.

I may also use playlists in the future for creating albums from other 
collections of tracks.  For example, I have ripped my Led Zeppelin Boxed I and 
II sets, but would also like to be able to browse the original albums.  Rather 
than rip the songs again as the original albums, I plan to create cue sheets 
that define those albums, using the remastered boxed set tracks as the source.

I think it would be nice to be able to save a playlist as a cue sheet, 
essentially so that the playlist appears as an album within the usual browse 
menus.
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

On 11/3/06, Nostromo
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> Don't make the mistake of assuming that what's important/true for you is
> universally important to everyone else. I have 980 albums, 12500 tracks,
> and 0 playlists. It's not because they're hard to create, it's because I
> don't want any. While I'd be perfectly happy to see improvements in the
> slimserver list management functions, I personally consider it far from
> essential.
>

My guess is that you're in a small minority. Most people use playlists.


Playlists and smart playlists are, IMO, -basic- features I expect from
any music player, whether its iTunes, Windows media player or
Slimserver. And Slimserver is a subpar app, on that level.



Au contraire, I have consulted my own guess, and it is you who are in
the minority.

In my opinion, there should be cake. Luscious, well-frosted cake, by
the freaking bucket full, and Slimserver totally falls down on that
front. All it does when I ask it for Cake is play music by this band
from Sacramento. A six pound German chocolate cake is not too much to
ask... maybe if the EASY-BAKE concept were built into an Infrant? Of
course, it should be low-power as well.

I have lots of music, three squeezeboxes, and I don't use playlists.
--
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin,
So across the Western ocean I must wander" -- traditional
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[kdf]

Quoting Nostromo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:



I wonder if Slimdevices is still working on Slimserver or if
everything's on hold since the Logitech acquisition. And is Dan Sully
still the main man?


yes, no, and yes.
http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/SlimServer
-k
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

On 10/30/06, Spoiled
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Just got an SB3 running wireless on my Imac.  I am very impressed -
works nicely.
I had a cd3o player previously which was an excellent device (possibly
better acoustically) but it died, so I decided to try this.
The track search on the cd3o was better - required only keying in of
the song title letters until all possiblilities except the desired song
were eliminated - then press play.  Eg - No need to press the 7 key four
times to get 'S'.  cd30 tracked every combination of letters until only
one was left.  It was very easy.
Will SB3 do this?



Look into the Lazy Search plugin.
--
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

- separation of the SlimServer engine itself and the database/music


Please define "SlimServer engine". The DB backend is already separated, as  
is the scanner.



- possibility to only run the SS-kernel with radio stations, while
streaming music e.g. through UpNP (switching off the SS music database
and streaming engine).


No need for UPnP, you can use SqueezeNetwork to achieve this, don't you?


- and when using the SS-database catalogue anyway, better support of
classical music
- better fast-forward and fast-back function inside one music file,
also on the player web-interface (right panel)


What's improvements would you like to see? "Better" is rather vague.

--

Michael

-
http://www.herger.net/SlimCD - your SlimServer on a CD
http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

...> (This one sounds tricky so I won't demand it.) Dynamic random

crossfade: Crossfade only when random play is active. Detect when a
track is mixed to the next in the album recording and let them play
together before skipping to the next randomly selected track. Perhaps
this could be assisted with tagging.



Dynamic Transitions Plugin does this, though I'm not sure if it has
been updated for 6.5 yet.
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Marc Sherman]

oreillymj wrote:

I'd like each SB to support the idea of perhaps 4 playlists, A,B,C,D
where the selected playlist A, moves to slot B, B moves to C etc when
you make a new selection.

>
> I also reckon that retaining the last 4 playlist selections would be
> the most required as it might otherwise just become confusing.

It would probably be better to phrase that as a request for a playlist 
stack. In general, two of something is reasonable, but once you start 
requesting more than 2, you almost always want a dynamically growing 
list rather than a fixed amount. Perhaps with a configurable cap size.


- Marc

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

I´d like to be able to add more than only one music folder.


Just put a link/shortcut to the second folder into the first one.

--

Michael

-
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http://www.herger.net/slim - AlbumReview, Biography, MusicInfoSCR
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Pat Farrell]

jeffluckett wrote:

1: A clean install process for upgraders. Quite a mess for those who
are migrating from 6.3.x and lower to 6.5.


What, exactly, do you mean?
Transparent upgrades are a serious challenge for all software, not just 
SlimServer. The more you expect it to remember, the harder it gets. At 
some point, it becomes impractical.


Seems to me that a reasonable list of things for the SlimServer to 
remember across upgrades (IMHO) are

1) remember your library directory
2) remember your player names
3) remember choses skin

I personally don't care about plugins, some others may care more. At 
some point, it may be too hard.



4: Reduced resources footprint.  It's beginning to look pretty fat for
something called "Slim"Server.


Its the server for a SlimDevice, the SqueezeBox.
I don't see any reason to worry about it, an old obsolte PC runs it 
perfectly. Mine has been up

 13:30:13 up 460 days, 41 min,  2 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.13, 0.09

7: Begin more thoroughly embracing AJAX on the web interface ... 


I probably have to add AJAX on the interface to what I do for a living, 
and I am terrified. Doing it properly for lots of OS and browser 
combinations looks extremely hard. Just testing all the combinations is 
going to take many weeks if not many months.


AJAX is cool, but the tools to support it professionally are seriously 
lacking. IMHO, YMMV, etc.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html


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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Ben Sandee]

On 9/22/06, jeffluckett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
4: Reduced resources footprint.  It's beginning to look pretty fat forsomething called "Slim"Server.
I think you're misunderstanding the name -- it's not the server that is intended to be slim.  It's the devices that are slim (as in, slim clients driven by a more powerful server)...Ben 

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phil Meyer]

>The FF/REW definitely needs improvement.
>
Appart from a bug that seems to affect SoftSqueeze a lot more than 
squeezeboxes, I'm finding FF/REW to be working rather well in 6.5 beta.  Maybe 
it's been improved since 6.3?

The only minor functional issue I have is that if I gradually increase the FF 
speed through x2, x4, x8, x16, etc, then start to REW, I would expect the FF 
speed to decrease. But currently slimserver will jump straight down to x-2.

The built-in FF/REW functionality is useful if you want to hear the music as 
you skip forwards so you know roughly when to stop.

To complement the built-in functionality, I can recommend KDF's scanner plugin. 
 I have bound this to Play.hold, such that pressing and holding play will 
display a progress bar.  Using up/down buttons allows the current song position 
to be changed.  The music will continue to play at normal speed whilst the user 
selects the new position.  When a selection is made and play is pressed, the 
song instantly jumps to the new play position.  This is more useful if you know 
where you want to position a song, as it is quicker to get there.  Exact 
positioning is not possible if you have a long song, but it can get you close 
to where you want to be in a faster way than FF/REW.

>Additionally, and at the very minimum, SlimServer's web interface
>should have the ability to click any place on a progress bar of the
>length of the song and have the song immediately start playing from
>there.  Just like in iTunes, WMP, etc.
I believe the Fishbone skin supports this in 6.5 - not sure how accurate it is, 
as I don't often need to position a song playing on my squeezebox from the web 
UI - I use a remote in the room I am playing the music in.

Phil
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

Why did they use a web interface, btw?


I can't speak for Sean or Dean, but there's at least one huge advantage:  
cross-platform. Another one would be (relative) ease of customization:  
there are skins optimized for handhelds, tablets as the Nokia 770, PCs.


BTW: I was looking for a web based music manager when I came across  
Slimserver. Buying the first device (SliMP3!) came quite a bit later.


--

Michael

---
Help translate SlimServer by using the
StringEditor Plugin (http://www.herger.net/slim/)
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RE: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Gregory Forrest]

G won't make a difference if you have weak signals (which is what it sounds
like) and/or IX (interference).   Connect it directly to your LAN using the
Ethernet and check again.  My guess is that you will find better
performance.  Key in wireless is the ratio of signal to interference.
Increase signal strength, reduce IX, or both.

Unless the antennas are directional, increasing antenna quality and gain
will not change the ratio, unless you place such an antenna on the side of
the link that is *not* being interfered with (have fun finding which one
this is).

Also - don't use standard consumer-grade access points - they only have
30-40 mW of transmit power, and deaf receivers.   The better ones have 200
mw of transmit power (7+ dB better), and their receivers can be 10 dB more
sensitive.

Look at Senao, others.

Greg

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of wunder
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 05:39
> To: discuss@lists.slimdevices.com
> Subject: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7
>
>
>
> Well, I think I see what's happening.  For whatever reason, most of the
> time when I hit play while FF or RW, nothing happens, then I hit play
> again thinking that I didn't press it strongly enough and then it
> immediately plays from the beginning of the track.

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Christopher Biscoe]

I haven't tried it in a long time. When I did, the plug-in was still  
in Beta, so it had a number of problems. Will definitely check it out.


Thanks,

Chris

On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:44 AM, ceejay wrote:



Christopher Biscoe;132791 Wrote:

This might already be in SS, so forgive me if it is, but I would love
to be able to use the Web to select dynamic, streaming content and
send it to SS for playing through my hi-fi.

For example, IMHO, KCRW is one of the world's greatest public radio
stations (no affiliation, promise). One of the really cool things
they do is archive all of their shows on a searchable page on their
website. Some of these shows are music based (for example, a one-hour

interview and performance session with the Flaming Lips, or Tom
Waits, or whatever), some of which are news/information based. What
would be amazing is the ability to select one of these archived shows

and instead of playing with Windows Media, Real Audio or Itunes/
Quicktime, but rather, send to a Slim agent, that could then play
through Squeezebox. Of course, I know there are ways to "record" or
archive locally and then add those to the slim playlist, but this
takes considerable effort and sometimes these broadcasts are not
something that you would want to preserve for multiple listenings.

I realize that this would be a technically challenging, but why stop
a boy from dreaming...








So, rather like AlienBBC does for the BBC's stations?

Have you tried this?  Its another of the world's greatest public radio
stations! :)

Ceejay


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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

Links are a minumum requirement, but I can see cases where it would be
a good idea to also be able to add information. For example to show
average ratings for the album, artist and track from the TrackStat
statistics directly on the song info page in the web interface.


Just for the records I opened a feature request:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4054

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

I'd like to see some more visualizations that are keyed to the music.
The various VU meters and spectrum analyzers are OK as they go, but I'd
like to see something more 'creative' and fun than just the technical
information.


You're a lucky guy:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19734&page=2#69


Perhaps some morphing shapes or dancing dudes or ... whatever.  Kind of


That plugin should already contain some "stick man" animation.

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

4. Plugin customizable web interface


Not only web, but player, too.


Today plugins have to put their information into separate pages in
the web interface which makes them a little harder to access. I wish
there
was a way for plugins to integrate their information and
functionallity in the standard slimserver browse pages or at least in
the track details page.


How would you imagine that: add some textual or graphical information to  
the page/menu? Or only add a link to your information? What would you like  
to add to the browse pages?


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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phil Meyer]

>2. Better FF/RW ability.  That's one thing I really miss when moving
>from CDs.

I actually like the FF/RW functionality (although there's currently a few bugs 
to be ironed out in the 6.5 beta)  How would you see it being improved?

Also, there's a plugin that presents the song progress as a bar, whereby 
up/down will change the position in the song like changing the volume on the 
player UI.  I use both mechanisms from time to time.  The built-in mechanism is 
useful for skipping ahead/back a little bit, the plugin is useful when you want 
to skip ahead a long way and know the rough time position.

Alternatively consider breaking up long pieces of music into smaller sections 
using cue sheets, so you can >> to the next "track".

Phil
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

4. Plugin customizable web interface
Today plugins have to put their information into separate pages in
the web interface which makes them a little harder to access. I wish
there
was a way for plugins to integrate their information and
functionallity in the standard slimserver browse pages or at least in
the track details page.


That's something Dean mentioned a long way back (more than a year) when I  
published the Bio/Review plugins: have these information right there in  
the song info mode of the player or the info page in the web interface.


http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=14230#8

I recently had a quick look at the player interface, but right now there  
really is no way to do it. But as Dean mentioned it, chances might be good  
- if someone takes the time to come up with a good idea and a patch :-)


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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

On 9/4/06, stevek1006 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:Listener;132695 Wrote:> Thanks for mentioning these requests. (#2697 and #2700 are also relevant
> for classical music.)>> I'm still interested in these enhancements. I've got aout 1200> classical music CDs ripped now.  Without the enhancements, SS/SB just> isn't useful to me.>
> BillOne more vote for better handling of classical music. This is the issuethat keeps me looking for alternatives to the Squeezebox.I don't care about classical at all, having 87 classical tracks out of 14,299 total tracks. However, I'd still vote for this as a generally useful thing (and in-line with the high-end, audiophile marketing moves).
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phill Edwards]

More work on the Softsqueeze client to give it built-in LIRC support
(at least for Linux and whatever the equivalent is for Windows).
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

I was naively thinking that only geeks would own more than a couple of  
players ;)


I wouldn't call my GF a geek - but she still likes to have on in her room.  
(And then I must be the geek installing the other five players in the  
remaining three rooms :-))


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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phil Meyer]

>_You_ could, and _I_ could. But don't ask any user to manipulate the prefs  
>file.
I was naively thinking that only geeks would own more than a couple of players 
;)

Phil
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jim Voos]

I would like to see less focus on more features and general focus on the stability of the server.  Fewer crashes.  Rewrite of code that is not too stable.  The server needs to be more rock solid with streaming audio sources

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

On 9/4/06, Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm using mostly 192kb VBR MP3 - Don't know if it or SS supports multiple genres.Use MP3Tag to make sure everything's using ID3v2 tags and not ID3v1, then you can select as many genre's per track as you want (within reason).
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Steve]

I'm using mostly 192kb VBR MP3 - Don't know if it or SS supports multiple genres.
On 04/09/06, smst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Steve;133412 Wrote:> As a work around I've tagged albums and tracks I know are dodgy with> "NotForKids" so if I want to play random music I just exclude this
> genre. Dirty but works, but means I lose the genre tag.I'm not sure you should have to lose the GENRE tag, although I guess itdepends on the audio format.  Do you use a format which supportsmultiple genres?  (And does SlimServer support that?)  You might be
able to just add that NotForKids genre to the existing genre.--smstsmst's Profile: 
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

Can't you just copy a block of options from the slimserver.prefs file?


_You_ could, and _I_ could. But don't ask any user to manipulate the prefs  
file.


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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

3) optimize the Web interface for small devices like handhelds,
smartphones and so on. I usually don't carry a laptop with me.


Tried http://yourserver:9000/Handheld/?

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

On 9/2/06, jtfields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Phil Meyer;132988 Wrote:> Tou could have a separate library for each player with little
> redundancy, as each library could contain links to the actual folders> where the music is stored, rather than duplicating the music.>> I can't see that there would be much demand for your checkbox filtering
> of a whole library...>> Would the functionality also extend to saved playlists?...>> That's a lot of maintenance too.  Every time you add a new player,> you'd have to go through the whole library deciding what music should
> be allowed to play on it...True, doing it with links would cut out on the redundancy but it wouldcreate a big hassle.  Someone could literally have to create thousandsof links.
create thousands of links or check thousands of checkboxes... I think the only way to get the desired functionality without doing some sort of manual sorting is to bring in multiple users and rating, then have each user rate out the music they don't like; problem is that this takes forever, and will still produce mistakes (like when you accidentally zap a song you like using the remote).
At the end of the day, sorting and rating your music is a manual task, no matter what program you use to do it with, because you have to make the decision (or review the program's decision). This is why my Slimserver now has 14,299 tracks, because I can't deal with sorting out and archiving the stuff I don't listen to any more.
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phil Meyer]

>The only way to
>manage that with folders would be to start having a separate library for
>each player which would end up with a lot of redundancy and use a lot of
>disk space (not to mention making adding music a little more
>cumbersome.)
>
Tou could have a separate library for each player with little redundancy, as 
each library could contain links to the actual folders where the music is 
stored, rather than duplicating the music.

I can't see that there would be much demand for your checkbox filtering of a 
whole library - it's rather unique for your situation.  You wouldn't get a lot 
of support for the feature either, eg. I'm sure plugins wouldn't be adapted, so 
for example if you were to use lazy search, it would find music that shouldn't 
be available in your library.  Would the functionality also extend to saved 
playlists?  I can't see how it would work. 

That's a lot of maintenance too.  Every time you add a new player, you'd have 
to go through the whole library deciding what music should be allowed to play 
on it.  It may be okay for a small library, but not when scaled up to a few 
hundred albums or more.

Phil
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phil Meyer]

>I thought about this, too. This would imho be (like many of the other  
>suggestions in this list) a great opportunity for a plugin author or  
>somebody who'd like to know more about the slimserver's innards to get  
>started with. Nothing everybody wants, thus no core functionality to be  
>built into slimserver, but really handy if you have use for it.  

Can't you just copy a block of options from the slimserver.prefs file?

Phil
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phil Meyer]

>> I would like a way to customize your library by player.  I have a SLIMP3
>> in my son's room and a Squeezebox in the living room.  There are certain
>> tracks I don't want available to my son.
>> 
>Interesting idea... as a variation on the theme, why not arrange for
>this data to be stored in some tag or other in the music files?

A better solution would be to use multiple music libraries/personas.

Eg. you could have libraries/personas called "Dads" and "Son's".
You could have 3 music folders - Dad's, Son's and Shared.
Dads persona could include Dads music folder and shared.
Son's persona could include Son's music folder and shared.

Son's Squeezebox could be configured to use Son's persona, so would use Son's 
music library.
Living room Squeezebox could be configured to use Dad's persona.

Optionally, perhaps a persona could be configured with a password to restrict 
access.
Optionally, perhaps restrict persona's to specific players.

I think this kind of support is so versatile, it could fit in with many 
different user requirements.

Phil
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Mick Horne]

Upgrade the UI especially the management of playlists. 
On 9/1/06, James Dunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'd go for smart playlists.  This would address my year limiting requirement(e.g. for random 80's or 90's music listening).
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Christopher Biscoe]

This might already be in SS, so forgive me if it is, but I would love  
to be able to use the Web to select dynamic, streaming content and  
send it to SS for playing through my hi-fi.


For example, IMHO, KCRW is one of the world's greatest public radio  
stations (no affiliation, promise). One of the really cool things  
they do is archive all of their shows on a searchable page on their  
website. Some of these shows are music based (for example, a one-hour  
interview and performance session with the Flaming Lips, or Tom  
Waits, or whatever), some of which are news/information based. What  
would be amazing is the ability to select one of these archived shows  
and instead of playing with Windows Media, Real Audio or Itunes/ 
Quicktime, but rather, send to a Slim agent, that could then play  
through Squeezebox. Of course, I know there are ways to "record" or  
archive locally and then add those to the slim playlist, but this  
takes considerable effort and sometimes these broadcasts are not  
something that you would want to preserve for multiple listenings.


I realize that this would be a technically challenging, but why stop  
a boy from dreaming...





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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

A very useful change for me would be the ability to have player settings
replicated accross all players taking into account the different types
(SoftSqueeze, Slimp3 and Squeezebox flavours)


I thought about this, too. This would imho be (like many of the other  
suggestions in this list) a great opportunity for a plugin author or  
somebody who'd like to know more about the slimserver's innards to get  
started with. Nothing everybody wants, thus no core functionality to be  
built into slimserver, but really handy if you have use for it.  
Volunteers? :-)


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RE: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Bennett, Gavin (LDN Int)]

A very useful change for me would be the ability to 
have player settings replicated accross all players taking into account the 
different types (SoftSqueeze, Slimp3 and Squeezebox 
flavours)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[David Brittain]

I'd like to see a web-based interface for installing plugins. i.e. come up with a packaging standard (even if it is just a zip file of the plugin distributable) and allow the user to upload the file to the server. Then have the server install everything in the right place. Beyond the basics, the system should then deal with versioning, server compatibility (server version and OS), and automatic updates - the firefox extension system being a good example. 
DaveOn 9/1/06, hickinbottoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:I'm sure there are some good ideas in here, but I wonder whether the
wiki might not be a better place to build a 'wishlist' page?That would allow a quick summary of the ideas to be listed, and if anyof the ideas would benefit from a fleshing-out then they could link totheir own wiki page, or to a bugzilla enhancement if the idea is to be
pushed into a real development, perhaps?The list/forum is a good place for discussion, but once discussion diesdown I suspect the memory of these ideas will just fade away.I don't mind starting one off (and copying the ideas from this thread),
if there's any consensus and other people would chip in. I'd be happierif Slim Devices said they'd use it before I did that, though!Just an idea.Rather than practice what I preach, though, here's my idea...
I'd like the toggle list of plugins on the "server settings->plugins"page to also be a list of hyperlinks to the plugin settings furtherdown the page. I always find it a bit of a trudge scrolling down a
large left pane when there are a lot of plugins to find the section fora particular plugin - if I could just click on the plugin title at thetop of that page and be scrolled down automatically it would be a lot
quicker.--hickinbottoms-"Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after- with 'Lazy Searching' (http://hickinbottom.demon.co.uk/lazysearch)!
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Peter Nõu]

kaid wrote:

I'd like to see bug #775 resolved.  I have multiple files (flac and mp3)
for every CD I own for ipod support.  I also have downloaded mp3's with
no corresponding flac file.  I would like to exclude mp3's from
slimserver scanning when a corresponding flac version exists and
include them when there is no corresponding flac file.

The partial fix posted by Dan Sully doesn't directly address my
situation, though the following combination of suggestions in this
thread might be a work around:
1. support for multiple music directories - keep my flac w/ mp3's in a
different directory than my mp3's without flac's.
2. Dan's partial fix - change 8171 - excluding files by extension on a
per directory basis.  In other words, exclude mp3's in my flac & mp3
directory but don't exclude mp3's in my mp3 only directory.

Anyway, that would make slimserver just about perfect for my use
patterns.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=775
http://svn.slimdevices.com/?rev=8171&view=rev




EXACTLY my situation. Must be more of us out there ;-) /peter
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Josh Coalson]

--- gingerneil
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Pale Blue Ego;132382 Wrote: 
> > There's nothing stopping you from using DRM music on the
> Squeezebox. 
> > Burn your DRM downloads to an audio CD (you should do this anyway
> as a
> > backup), then rip them to a lossless format like FLAC.  
> > 
> > Bingo - you have full use of the - legal - download forever.
> 
> No you dont. Generally, changing the format of the recording (ie from
> mp3 to flac) is illegal.

that is simply not true.  if it were, every slimserver user
transcoding at the server would be breaking the law.

at least in the US, space-shifting is not so clear-cut and has
been successfully argued in some cases to be fair use.

Josh


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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[kdf]

On 31-Aug-06, at 12:02 PM, TiredLegs wrote:



Not sure if this is a Slimserver or plug-in request, but I want the
ability to have the random mix pick albums for me among just Rock or
Jazz selections.

This should already be possible.  The random mix web page allows you to 
select genres to include or exclude
Then you can start a random album mix, which should only run from the 
genres that are checked as included.

-kdf

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Jack Coates]

On 8/30/06, bossanova808 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:Anpther vote for smart playlists - can't believe this isn't here yet,
it's such an obviously cool feature that people love on otherplatforms...I agree -- I'd like to see a suggestion mode, and one smart enough to talk with Last.FM / Pandora would be very cool indeed. I suppose that would basically mean blessing the 
Last.FM and SQLPlaylist plugins? There should also be capability to play favorites from my own collection without streaming it from Last.FM though...On that note, a lot of the stuff in this discussion is already done in plugins or external scripts (sometimes OS-specific though). Following that, a lot of the discussion around those plugins / scripts is concerned with making sure the version is right... I'd like to see infrastructure for informing the user that there's an updated version of the plugin that they're using.
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Marc Sherman]

Robin Bowes wrote:


ID3v2 has TMED, which is "Media Type".

Vorbis comments have "SOURCEMEDIA"

If files are tagged with these fields then Slimserver could use them to
sort/filter/structure like any other field.


Interesting. I have a vague dissatisfaction with the way I currently 
deal with bonus tracks on CDs (like all the demo versions at the ends of 
the Ryko reissues of David Bowie and Elvis Costello records). I want to 
keep them in my collection, because sometimes they're interesting, but 
when I'm listening to an album, I rarely want to hear them. So what I do 
is I tag them with a different album tag (adding " (Bonus)" to the end 
of the album name), and add a Bonus genre tag.


It'd be nice to be able to have those bonus tracks tucked away somewhere 
even more discretely than they currently are in the browse tree.


- Marc
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RE: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Craig, James (IT)]

> multiple delete of items from a playlist that is already open. 

That's had an open bug for some time... There are arguments on both
sides...
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=62

James


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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Michael Herger]

Seperate Win32 client like Xlobby


What about SlimRemote, Moose or TelCanto? They do work, and they are 3rd  
party as is Xlobby :-)


--

Michael

---
Help translate SlimServer by using the
SlimString Translation Helper (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Robin Bowes]

autopilot wrote:
> kdf;132362 Wrote: 
>> In the interest of supporting the original post, it might be best to 
>> leave drm discussion for now.
>>
>> -kdf
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Ok, how about improved singles handling?
> 
> For example, if there is a 'Single' tag (or an extended tag to indicate
> to Slimserver that it's a single), There could be a catagory in
> slimserver for Singles (alongside Album, Artist, Genre, etc). A single
> search could be added to the SB's menu also.
> 
> I know this is an issue for some people, and i know there are
> workarounds (like using "Single" as the album tag), but it would be a
> nice feature and help avoid cluttering the Album list (or an entry
> called 'no album' if people dont use an album tag).

ID3v2 has TMED, which is "Media Type".

Vorbis comments have "SOURCEMEDIA"

If files are tagged with these fields then Slimserver could use them to
sort/filter/structure like any other field.

R.

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RE: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Bennett, Gavin (LDN Int)]

My favoured enhancement for 7 would be automatic de-duplication of
playlists.  As disk space is cheap I do not worry about the multiple
copies of tracks.  When building a playlist by adding  favourite albums
it would be great if SlimServer removed the dupes - this would be
particularly useful when adding "Various Artists" albums to the
playlist.  A "Clean" function to process existing lists and remove dupes
or missing files would be nice too.

After that I would second the smart playlist functionms. 


Gavin











































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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[kdf]

all good points on the DRM issue.  Let's consider that DRM and 
expansion of radio support, file types, etc

are all a work in progress.

In the interest of supporting the original post, it might be best to 
leave drm discussion for now.


-kdf

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[kdf]

On 30-Aug-06, at 2:32 PM, Phil Meyer wrote:


rhapsody is DRM.

It's also USA-only!


yup, well aware of that one.
digital rights doesn't mean everywhere.
it means you have to do what the provider says, if they even let you 
have a chance.

-k

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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[Phil Meyer]

>rhapsody is DRM.
It's also USA-only!

Phil
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Re: [slim] Re: Let's here some suggestions for SlimServer 7

[kdf]

On 30-Aug-06, at 11:37 AM, dangerous_dom wrote:



Support for some kind(s) of DRM, so that we can -legally- download
music.


rhapsody is DRM.
drm issues are more to do with the providers than the clients.
-k

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