Re: [Snowdrift-discuss] Tipbox, FLO software for getting feedback…

[Peter Harpending]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 02:08:42PM -0600, Michael Siepmann wrote:
> This does look interesting.  It seems particularly useful for people who
> want to invite PGP-encrypted messages from anonymous senders.  For
> Snowdrift, I wonder whether it would be better to just have a feedback
> form on the website that has name and email address as optional?  I
> wouldn't think that typically anonymity would be a strong concern for
> people offering feedback to Snowdrift.  The feedback form page could
> potentially offer a tipbox.is link for anyone who prefers it, though?
> 
> Michael Siepmann, Ph.D.
> *The Tech Design Psychologist*™
> /Shaping technology to help people flourish/™
> 303-835-0501   TechDesignPsych.com
>    OpenPGP: 6D65A4F7
> 
>  
> 
> On 05/15/2016 08:18 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> > https://tipbox.is looks interesting. I'd love thoughts from others
> > (Especially Michael, our user research lead).
> >
> > Perhaps this could be a useful tool for us.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > Discuss@lists.snowdrift.coop
> > https://lists.snowdrift.coop/mailman/listinfo/discuss

It's also worth noting that https://tipbox.is requires Javascript, although all
of it appears to be FLO. It also doesn't look like there's any active auditing
of their code tree. The last commit was 8 months ago, and there are only 11
commits total.

-- 
Peter Harpending 


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Re: [Snowdrift-discuss] Let's take care of the blog

[Bryan Richter]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 02:06:11PM -0700, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> On 05/17/2016 02:04 PM, Stephen Michel wrote:
> > On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Bryan Richter  wrote:
> >> On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 11:16:09AM -0700, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> >>
> >> On 05/17/2016 10:21 AM, Bryan Richter wrote: > Website work is
> >> blocked on taking care of the blog, so let's do that. > We have to
> >> make some decisions, but first we need to agree on what > purpose
> >> we are trying to achieve. > > To frame the "purpose" discussion,
> >> I'll pose the first question: Where > does the blog live? The
> >> decision flowchart starts with: > > 1. Blog lives on the main site
> >> > 2. Blog lives somewhere else > > Which shall it be? > None of
> >> those require the blog being on the main site. If we decided to
> >> use Ghost (one of the blog options more appealing to me as an end
> >> user and in particularly liking the project and the project's
> >> values), and we had a link to our blog on the main site (perhaps
> >> even a feed with titles in a side-bar on the project, but not
> >> strictly necessary), and we made it clear to other projects how to
> >> easily get set up with Ghost, then it could address all my concerns. 
> >>
> >> I briefly looked at Ghost, and I'd obviously want to use Sandstorm to
> >> host it. But the Sandstorm version is two *very active* years behind
> >> the standalone version! That's a major issue. But in a lot of other
> >> ways, Using Sandstorm + Ghost is very appealing to me. I would like to
> >> look into estimating how much work it would be to package up a more
> >> recent version of Ghost.
> > 
> > And/or, get a more recent version of Ghost on Oasis.

That was precisely what I meant. :)

> Or get ghost to host for us like Gitlab did

*EVEN BETTER*


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Re: [Snowdrift-discuss] Let's take care of the blog

[Stephen Michel]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Bryan Richter  
wrote:

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 11:16:09AM -0700, Aaron Wolf wrote:

 On 05/17/2016 10:21 AM, Bryan Richter wrote:
 > Website work is blocked on taking care of the blog, so let's do 
that.

 > We have to make some decisions, but first we need to agree on what
 > purpose we are trying to achieve.
 >
 > To frame the "purpose" discussion, I'll pose the first question: 
Where

 > does the blog live? The decision flowchart starts with:
 >
 > 1. Blog lives on the main site
 > 2. Blog lives somewhere else
 >
 > Which shall it be?
 >


 None of those require the blog being on the main site. If we 
decided to
 use Ghost (one of the blog options more appealing to me as an end 
user
 and in particularly liking the project and the project's values), 
and we
 had a link to our blog on the main site (perhaps even a feed with 
titles
 in a side-bar on the project, but not strictly necessary), and we 
made
 it clear to other projects how to easily get set up with Ghost, 
then it

 could address all my concerns.


I briefly looked at Ghost, and I'd obviously want to use Sandstorm to
host it. But the Sandstorm version is two *very active* years behind
the standalone version! That's a major issue.

But in a lot of other ways, Using Sandstorm + Ghost is very appealing
to me. I would like to look into estimating how much work it would be
to package up a more recent version of Ghost.


And/or, get a more recent version of Ghost on Oasis.
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Re: [Snowdrift-discuss] [Snowdrift-team] modifying donations to feed into the mechanism

[Peter Harpending]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 03:48:54PM -0400, Stephen Michel wrote:
> To me, it seems like arrears is the clear superior option for MVP. Holding
> funds adds significant legal complexity for what seems like a small benefit
> -- and it's something that we could transition to later anyway.
> 
> Imagine we're doing arrears, because that's the easier way. Then, because we
> think the benefits of holding are worth it, we invest in a lawyer and figure
> out a legal way to do it. It should be relatively easy to modify the
> existing system to simply pay into the arrears system from the bank account
> where we're holding funds instead of from a patron's own credit card.
> 
> So we want to offer gift cards? Same deal, or we can partner with a bank
> that already offers something like that (similar to
> http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/visa-gift-cards -- but more morally palatable
> than walmart :P).
> 
> The only disadvantage I can see with arrears that absolutely could not be
> worked around would be if no payment processor met our moral standards.
> Except -- imagine in a few years when snowdrift.coop has become wildly
> successful: maybe now it's time to start our own ethical payment processor
> (or gnu taler, or ethereum/maidsafe as discussed elsewhere, is up and
> running and stable/trusted).
> 
> BOTTOM LINE: When comparing a thing that we know will work for us on launch
> to a thing that needs further exploration, I need to pick the former.

This might be a case of "complicated for programmers" v. "complicated and
expensive for lawyers". In that case, I would vote for the option that makes
things complicated for the programmers, because it's much easier and less
expensive.

I actually have no idea how to actually go about arranging a transaction between
any of these third-party payment systems, especially from a Haskell program.

> BOTTOM LINE: When comparing a thing that we know will work for us on launch
> to a thing that needs further exploration, I need to pick the former.

All of these options need further exploration. None of them are very easy.

> 
> Other bottom line: ---

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-- 

Peter Harpending 


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Re: [Snowdrift-discuss] [Snowdrift-team] modifying donations to feed into the mechanism

[Stephen Michel]

To me, it seems like arrears is the clear superior option for MVP. 
Holding funds adds significant legal complexity for what seems like a 
small benefit -- and it's something that we could transition to later 
anyway.


Imagine we're doing arrears, because that's the easier way. Then, 
because we think the benefits of holding are worth it, we invest in a 
lawyer and figure out a legal way to do it. It should be relatively 
easy to modify the existing system to simply pay into the arrears 
system from the bank account where we're holding funds instead of from 
a patron's own credit card.


So we want to offer gift cards? Same deal, or we can partner with a 
bank that already offers something like that (similar to 
http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/visa-gift-cards -- but more morally 
palatable than walmart :P).


The only disadvantage I can see with arrears that absolutely could not 
be worked around would be if no payment processor met our moral 
standards. Except -- imagine in a few years when snowdrift.coop has 
become wildly successful: maybe now it's time to start our own ethical 
payment processor (or gnu taler, or ethereum/maidsafe as discussed 
elsewhere, is up and running and stable/trusted).


BOTTOM LINE: When comparing a thing that we know will work for us on 
launch to a thing that needs further exploration, I need to pick the 
former.


Other bottom line: ---
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Re: [Snowdrift-discuss] Let's take care of the blog

[Aaron Wolf]

On 05/17/2016 10:21 AM, Bryan Richter wrote:
> Website work is blocked on taking care of the blog, so let's do that.
> We have to make some decisions, but first we need to agree on what
> purpose we are trying to achieve.
> 
> To frame the "purpose" discussion, I'll pose the first question: Where
> does the blog live? The decision flowchart starts with:
> 
> 1. Blog lives on the main site
> 2. Blog lives somewhere else
> 
> Which shall it be?
> 

My values:

* When Snowdrift.coop makes a careful decision about how to do something
like blogging, we at least consider how we can make it as easy as
possible for other projects to follow the same path (that's why having
it on the site for *any* project was originally proposed, because I hate
the idea that we do a ton of work and then conclude that any FLO project
has to reproduce all that same work themselves, I want to lower the
barriers to FLO project success)

* I want updates and blog things to be conceptually connected to
patronage enough that patrons and potential patrons feel well-informed
about the work their patronage supports

* I want a good blog for our own purposes for various reasons.

None of those require the blog being on the main site. If we decided to
use Ghost (one of the blog options more appealing to me as an end user
and in particularly liking the project and the project's values), and we
had a link to our blog on the main site (perhaps even a feed with titles
in a side-bar on the project, but not strictly necessary), and we made
it clear to other projects how to easily get set up with Ghost, then it
could address all my concerns.

Now, my *ideal* for blog software has certain features I'd want
including all the FLO ideals like working with LibreJS, working with
NoScript, having no privacy-invading analytics, having threaded 100% FLO
discussion section that has the full honor-system concepts, and so on. I
prefer this to be upstream rather than invent our own blogging software,
I just don't trust most upstream things to respect all these values, so
it's a trade-off.

I could imagine a Ghost blog that doesn't have direct discussions on
each page but instead links to a discussion topic for each post on a
Discourse forum that we have set up as best as we can to use our
honor-system.

That said, I'm not set on Ghost, it's just an example. It may or may not
be overkill. I defer to operations people somewhat. I have a biased weak
liking of having our stack be consolidated as much as possible and use
single-sign-on etc. whatever that means for our choices.

> But let's not simply answer that question. Let's start by
> understanding why we have a blog, and figure out what we need to make
> it a success. From there, it should be easier to agree on this
> decision, and the ones that follow.
> 
> Here's my brainstorm for the blog's purpose:
> 
> 1. Show signs of life
> 2. Keep people engaged
> 3. Talk about problems we're facing
> 4. Talk about progress we've made
> 5. Add more content to the Internets, making it easier for people
>to find us in searches
> 
> 

All those values are good. I'd add:

* Provide more personal sense to things with posts introducing team
members and discussing the project from a personal level (blog posts
have specific authors) versus wiki articles that don't work like that.

* Write about updates including references to new wiki articles and
other things in order to promote our FLO values etc

* After launch, write highlight other projects that use the system




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Re: [Snowdrift-discuss] Let's take care of the blog

[Peter Harpending]

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 10:21:23AM -0700, Bryan Richter wrote:
> Website work is blocked on taking care of the blog, so let's do that.
> We have to make some decisions, but first we need to agree on what
> purpose we are trying to achieve.
> 
> To frame the "purpose" discussion, I'll pose the first question: Where
> does the blog live? The decision flowchart starts with:
> 
> 1. Blog lives on the main site
> 2. Blog lives somewhere else
> 
> Which shall it be?
> 
> But let's not simply answer that question. Let's start by
> understanding why we have a blog, and figure out what we need to make
> it a success. From there, it should be easier to agree on this
> decision, and the ones that follow.
> 
> Here's my brainstorm for the blog's purpose:
> 
> 1. Show signs of life
> 2. Keep people engaged
> 3. Talk about problems we're facing
> 4. Talk about progress we've made
> 5. Add more content to the Internets, making it easier for people
>to find us in searches

If the blog doesn't need comments, I could very easily throw together a site
using Hakyll , and post it somewhere. 

Advantages:

* Content is managed and deployed using git.
* It's Haskell, so any of our devs can tweak the site generation.
* The Hakyll site can easily generate static content, including RSS/Atom feeds,
  uniform styling, etc.
* Static sites are easy to maintain and deploy
* Can be hosted cheaply, and independently from the main Snowdrift server. (I
  can do site administration if need be).

Disadvantages:

* Can't handle form input, which would include comments or maybe surveys.

--

Peter Harpending


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[Snowdrift-discuss] Let's take care of the blog

[Bryan Richter]

Website work is blocked on taking care of the blog, so let's do that.
We have to make some decisions, but first we need to agree on what
purpose we are trying to achieve.

To frame the "purpose" discussion, I'll pose the first question: Where
does the blog live? The decision flowchart starts with:

1. Blog lives on the main site
2. Blog lives somewhere else

Which shall it be?

But let's not simply answer that question. Let's start by
understanding why we have a blog, and figure out what we need to make
it a success. From there, it should be easier to agree on this
decision, and the ones that follow.

Here's my brainstorm for the blog's purpose:

1. Show signs of life
2. Keep people engaged
3. Talk about problems we're facing
4. Talk about progress we've made
5. Add more content to the Internets, making it easier for people
   to find us in searches


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Re: [Snowdrift-discuss] Next Meeting

[mray]

On 14.05.2016 02:40, Stephen Michel wrote:
> Was yesterday a good Thursday or a bad Thursday?
>

Hi there I wasn't available due to not having internet access in the
appartment we are staying in. I'll be here for the whole week.

> Very belated: I do have a pgp key, but I receive very little encrypted
> mail, so my email setup is not optimized for dealing with it (I use
> geary for most of my mail, which doesn't support gpg; when I get
> encrypted mail I need to switch to evolution). Overall if you wanted to
> send me an encrypted message I'd give you my cell (+1 413 636 1352) and
> tell you to send me a Signal message :)
> 
> If you still want to send me encrypted mail, my key is listed on
> keyservers by step...@snowdrift.coop and s...@smichel.me. Fingerprint is
> 642D CB46 D472 8806 1B9B
> 7F35 6FC6 59B5 2A14 5DE3
> 
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 11:34 AM, mray  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 10.03.2016 01:20, Stephen Michel wrote:
>>>  ...please email me your general availability.
>>
>>
>> Hello Stephen,
>>
>> I'm generally available about 19:30 - 01:00 UTC+2, where Thuesday and
>> about every second Thursday are probably bad for me. I hope this is
>> helpful.
>>
>> Thank you for caring about all the organizational stuff!
>>
>>
>> (do you usa PGP key btw?)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>>
>> ___
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> 
> 
> 
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> 



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