date:20051029


That's a good idea.

R. Potter wrote:

I just down loaded version 2.0 after using the pre-2.0 release.  I 
registered my new product and took the survey.  Keep in mind I had yet 
to actually investigate all the new features.  I answered the survey 
questions based exclusively on my pre-2.0 usage.  At the end of the 
survey I listed features I would like to see.  I listed a "MS Access" 
capable database and templates.  Upon brief investigation it appears 
that my desired features have been addressed.  To keep these surveys 
more accurate and valuable, I wounder if a survey request should be 
timed after a user has had time to actually use the product?  This 
would provide more accurate data related to the product being used, 
not previous product usage.


-Robert Potter
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[discuss] timing of user survey

2005-10-29 Thread R. Potter

I just down loaded version 2.0 after using the pre-2.0 release.  I 
registered my new product and took the survey.  Keep in mind I had yet 
to actually investigate all the new features.  I answered the survey 
questions based exclusively on my pre-2.0 usage.  At the end of the 
survey I listed features I would like to see.  I listed a "MS Access" 
capable database and templates.  Upon brief investigation it appears 
that my desired features have been addressed.  To keep these surveys 
more accurate and valuable, I wounder if a survey request should be 
timed after a user has had time to actually use the product?  This would 
provide more accurate data related to the product being used, not 
previous product usage.


-Robert Potter
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [discuss] thanks, quick question

I don't think so, but I am not a lawyer. What I do know is that MANY 
commercial and non-commercial (like this one) programs can do it, and 
they still exist. The software isn't illegal, and you don't have to use 
the Microsoft formats. In fact, unless you need to send files to someone 
else, use the included OpenDocument format. It makes much smaller files, 
cannot contain viruses, and is a completely open standard.


Henrik Sundberg wrote:


2005/10/29, Timothy Stockdale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
 


Greetings,
 Thanks for your product. I was just wondering whether or not this is
completely legal. Even using it to open certain Microsoft files? (Word,
Powerpoint, Excel)
   



I'm also uncertain. Is the reversed engineering ,used to construct the
import export filters, completely legal?
/Henrik

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Re: [discuss] installing problem for open o20

I am not sure what you mean by the Java problem. However, I know that
somewhere in the Options is an option for the steps when you make a
square or other object.

mehmet demir wrote:

hi,
before installing I read read me file and then decided to install "java"
firstly.
then I installed oo20. during installation (at the begining) it gave a warning "you have java.
first remove it then install oo20" I waited,supposed it would cancel the installation but
continued. at last I tried to start "draw" as I drew a square it gave jvm.dll fault, oo
was shut down.
several times I tried but the same result.

I remembered the warning. firstly I removed Java(J2SE from add/remove)then restarted pc
then wanted to remove oo20. from the options I chose "recover 00" it
reinstalled java and some others. the installation proccess took long time then the fist
installation. now there is no problem.
**so, let oo install all components, donot install java before.
but I think there is a problem. just after the warning about java it should
stop installing oo. instead it continued and problem occured.
it should be recovered.

I donot like something about "draw". shapes are colorful if you donot want color you
should choose "hide" option near the color. older version has both two options
practically. this is more difficult.
also while dragging the square it is drawn with the steps of 0,5cm. if you want to draw more sensitive with milimeters you should hold down ctrl on the keyboard. it is not practical either.
maybe this has a solution but I havenot known yet. I installed oo20 today.

mehmet demir
I use oo20 on win98se

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Re: [discuss] thanks, quick question

Burn it to a CD, post it to your website... if you are a programmer, you 
can even change it.

There is nothing illegal about opening Word files in OpenOffice.org.

Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:


Saturday, October 29, 2005 Jonathon Blake wrote:

 


Timothy wrote:
   



 


whether or not this is completely legal.
 



 


It is legal to use.
You can also sell, or give away as many copies as you want to.
   



In fact, I would say you are *encouraged* to give away
copies. Spread the word. It's extremely important that as
many people as possible know of its existence.

Re: [discuss] Daniel? Is this working?


Yes, it's working. Your email made it to the list.

Cheers,
Daniel.

Rigel wrote:
Daniel. Can you tell me if my e-mail is getting on the list? I have sent 
this e-mail to discuss@openoffice.org and your private e-mail. A time 
ago, I accidentaly shot off two empty e-mails entirely by accident and 
haven't seen another post of mine on the discuss list or the social list 
since. *worried look*


Let me know please. Thanks. Rigel


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[discuss] Daniel? Is this working?

2005-10-29 Thread Rigel

Daniel. Can you tell me if my e-mail is getting on the list? I have sent 
this e-mail to discuss@openoffice.org and your private e-mail. A time 
ago, I accidentaly shot off two empty e-mails entirely by accident and 
haven't seen another post of mine on the discuss list or the social list 
since. *worried look*


Let me know please. Thanks. Rigel


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[discuss] OpenOpenOffice.org Proyect

2005-10-29 Thread Alexandro Colorado

The approval of the OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications  
(OpenDocument) standard starts a new era in business productivity  
software, and levels the playing field for a whole new generation of word  
processing software products.


While the majority of the software industry is gathering around this new  
standard, the notable exception has been Microsoft and its  
industry-dominating Microsoft Office suite of products. Whether this is  
due to lack of demand, technical difficulty or specific intent does not  
matter.


What does matter is that the resulting product lock-in represents one of  
the most significant barriers to anyone wishing to migrate to OpenDocument  
products like OpenOffice.org and other products, both free and  
commercial.  It is hard to justify moving away from Office if the rest of  
the Office-using world can't read your documents.


And as the use of OpenDocument files becomes more common, the lack of  
OpenDocument capabilities will be an increasing headache for Microsoft  
Office users unable to access these types of documents.


OpenOpenOffice (or simply "O3") is the quickest and most immediate  
solution for these problems, bringing OpenDocument support to Microsoft  
Office users.  More importantly, it is a simple and elegant solution that  
can be implemented in weeks instead of months or years, solving the most  
pressing needs of Office users ASAP.



http://o3.phase-n.com/index.html

--
Alexandro Colorado
CoLeader of OpenOffice.org ES
http://es.openoffice.org

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Re: [discuss] Re: Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad

If C. Smith was on the Users list (I've seen no evidence of that yet) then
it would be a problem. However, being on the Discuss list, I don't believe
that it's a problem warranting him being thrown out. I do think his idiocy
is rather funny, though.

On 10/29/05, Andrew Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "M. Fioretti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:20051028200137.GH4077
> @mclink.it :
>
> > In the last year C. Smith has repeatedly annoyed many other members of
> > this list. Apart from (lack of) good manners, he has consistantly
> > demonstrated ignorance of basic IT and industry policy concepts,
> > regardless of how many times they have been proven to him with
> > objective data, with a determination that can only be explained by:
> >
> > 1) serious mental disability, or
> > 2) deliberate trolling
> >
>
> I think Chad should stay, for three reasons. The first is that he's not
> the only person showing a stubborn and apparently deliberate inability to
> comprehend their opponents' points. It is a characteristic both of
> mailing lists in general, and geeks, if I may use the term, in
> particular. See the brilliant paper on "tact filters" at
> http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/jcb/tact.html
>
> Secondly, and selfishly, if he goes someone else will have to take up the
> position of microsoft realist, and I fear it will be me. I agree with
> every word he said in his rant about how many people tell outrageous lies
> about Microsoft and its software -- for another example, look at the
> shitstorm on George Ou's Ziff Davies blog after he pointed out that Calc
> is about *136 times* slower to load spreadsheets than Excel. This is a
> fact. It is freely admitted by our own engineers. It has something to do
> with the inefficiencies of OOo's own coding, and something to do with the
> inherent inefficiencies of XML. Yet there are hundreds of messages
> denouncing him for "spreading Microsoft FUD" and similar things.
> Inconvenient facts are not enemy propaganda.
>
> Thirdly -- let's keep a sense of proportion. This is a mailing list. It
> achieves nothing. It's recreational typing. If individuals want to
> killfile him, that's fine, and probably a prerequisite for sanity. I have
> a killfile of my own which works so well I have forgotten who is in it.
> But announcing that he is to be expelled from it is just silly.
>
> --
> Andrew Brown
> The email in the header does not work.
> Contact details and possibly useful macros from
> http://www.darwinwars.com/lunatic/bugs/oo_macros.html
>
>
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>
>

Re: [discuss] Re: Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad

2005-10-29 Thread Dan Kegel


Andrew Brown wrote:
... look at the 
shitstorm on George Ou's Ziff Davies blog after he pointed out that Calc 
is about *136 times* slower to load spreadsheets than Excel. 


Hear, hear.  Remember the Mindcraft benchmarks that showed Linux
was slower?  They were right -- and it was one of the best favors
Microsoft ever did Linux.  I did a fair bit of 'realist' duty back then.
And I agree, George Ou's benchmarks are useful.
But Chad doesn't make a good realist, I think.

Thirdly -- let's keep a sense of proportion. This is a mailing list. It 
achieves nothing. It's recreational typing. If individuals want to 
killfile him, that's fine, and probably a prerequisite for sanity. I have 
a killfile of my own which works so well I have forgotten who is in it. 


The problem with adding him to my killfile is that
he sparks comments from other folks  who I don't
want to add to my killfile.  If he'd just go away,
the signal-to-noise ratio might be a little better
on this list.

That said, I'm not a regular here, so I should probably just shut up.
- Dan

--
Trying to get a job as a c++ developer?  See 
http://kegel.com/academy/getting-hired.html


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Re: [discuss] Re: Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad

2005-10-29 Thread Ian Lynch

On Sat, 2005-10-29 at 13:22 +, Andrew Brown wrote:

> Secondly, and selfishly, if he goes someone else will have to take up the 
> position of microsoft realist, 

Chad is not a Microsoft realist, he is often rude, often beligerant and
impolite. Maybe you haven't been here very long but to those of us who
have, his MS leanings are the least of the problem.

>  pointed out that Calc 
> is about *136 times* slower to load spreadsheets than Excel. 

So what? I loaded a JPeg in Word and it took 100 time longer to render
thanin a 10 year old piece of software on my Acorn computer. That
doesn't mean everyone is going to rush off to buy RISC OS machines. No
doubt technical things will be improved. Success in the standards wars
has not often been an issue of technical excellence, more one of
confidence so undermining confidence in our own product is
counter-productive.

> Thirdly -- let's keep a sense of proportion. This is a mailing list. It 
> achieves nothing. 

Mailing lists actually achieve a lot. Its just Geeks who thik that the
only thing that matters is coding. In fact, political and marketing
considerations are far more likely to detemine standards than technical
excellence. If it was down to technical excellence DOS and Windows would
never have got off the ground. Since mailing lists are an avenue of
communication they can be very influential in achieving a great deal.

-- 
Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ZMSL

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Re: [discuss] Re: Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad


Andrew Brown wrote:

Secondly, and selfishly, if he goes someone else will have to take up the 
position of microsoft realist, and I fear it will be me.


I don't see what's wrong with that. It's good to have a Microsoft 
realist. But that's not what Chad is. I would be happy for you to 
replace Chad, since your criticism is likely to be more polite, better 
thought out, and make a more compelling case for Microsoft's strengths.



Thirdly -- let's keep a sense of proportion. This is a mailing list. It 
achieves nothing.


A lot of mailing lists achieve a lot. The OpenDocument Fellowship's 
mailing lists are packed with useful discussion and planning so we get a 
lot done very quickly.


Cheers,
Daniel.
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[discuss] Re: Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad

2005-10-29 Thread Andrew Brown

"M. Fioretti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:20051028200137.GH4077
@mclink.it:

> In the last year C. Smith has repeatedly annoyed many other members of
> this list. Apart from (lack of) good manners, he has consistantly
> demonstrated ignorance of basic IT and industry policy concepts,
> regardless of how many times they have been proven to him with
> objective data, with a determination that can only be explained by:
> 
>  1) serious mental disability, or
>  2) deliberate trolling
> 

I think Chad should stay, for three reasons. The first is that he's not 
the only person showing a stubborn and apparently deliberate inability to 
comprehend their opponents' points. It is a characteristic both of 
mailing lists in general, and geeks, if I may use the term, in 
particular. See the brilliant paper on "tact filters" at 
http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/jcb/tact.html

Secondly, and selfishly, if he goes someone else will have to take up the 
position of microsoft realist, and I fear it will be me. I agree with 
every word he said in his rant about how many people tell outrageous lies 
about Microsoft and its software -- for another example, look at the 
shitstorm on George Ou's Ziff Davies blog after he pointed out that Calc 
is about *136 times* slower to load spreadsheets than Excel. This is a 
fact. It is freely admitted by our own engineers. It has something to do 
with the inefficiencies of OOo's own coding, and something to do with the 
inherent inefficiencies of XML. Yet there are hundreds of messages 
denouncing him for "spreading Microsoft FUD" and similar things. 
Inconvenient facts are not enemy propaganda. 

Thirdly -- let's keep a sense of proportion. This is a mailing list. It 
achieves nothing. It's recreational typing. If individuals want to 
killfile him, that's fine, and probably a prerequisite for sanity. I have 
a killfile of my own which works so well I have forgotten who is in it. 
But announcing that he is to be expelled from it is just silly. 

-- 
Andrew Brown
The email in the header does not work.
Contact details and possibly useful macros from
http://www.darwinwars.com/lunatic/bugs/oo_macros.html


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[discuss] Re: Re: Re: Re: Multiple character styles (was: Re: Mixed language text spellchecking question)

2005-10-29 Thread Andrew Brown

Giuseppe Bilotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> This is a long reply, so please read it through before
> replying to it :)
> 
> Let me reply to these two paragraphs at the same time. The
> main difference between manually (or macro) applied
> 'formatting' (and I'm including language in this because
> it's a property which is handled at the same level as actual
> visual formatting in OOo) and formatting applied via styles
> is that the former, once applied sticks there, while the
> second can mutate by changing the style. Hence the
> difference between 'hard' and 'soft'. In some way, the first
> is 'carved in stone' whereas the second is only 'indicated'.
> 

Yes. I entirely agree with this. We do, I think agree what we 
are talking about and that the difference between a style and a 
hard format is that the style is editable (even though the 
individual attributes making it up are not) and that these 
changes apply retroactively, to so say, across the whole 
document. 

> An obvious remark is that text in a foreign language is in
> that foreign language, full stop. It's highly dubious that
> you could have second thoughts ("hm, maybe this isn't
> Russian, maybe this is Japanese") and have such second
> thoughts consistently across all occurrences of that
> language.


Agreed


> *However*, taking your example ("different font
> for Swedish text") is exactly the reason why it should
> nevertheless be part of an appropriate style, and not be
> applied manually (or macroly): if halfway through a document
> to decide, or otherwise need, to set all the foreign text
> in a different font (or with a different font property,
> typically in italic), you can of course change the macro,
> which will work for all the *future* text, but it won't
> change all the text you already typed in. This is *exactly*
> what styles were made for.

Agreed - but this retroactive change is _also_ something that 
can be simulated by a macro; I suspect that this hypothetical 
macro is merely reproducing the internal logic of OOo: when a 
style is changed now, the program must search through the whole 
document for text to which that style has been applied, and 
apply the new definition. IIRC, one of the first examples in the 
developers' guide is how to change character formatting 
throughout a document. All my hypothetical macro does is to 
replicate this process.

Obviously, nobody wants to have to write a macro to do this when 
styles are a much easier way. But what I am thinking -- and I 
hope this is a clarification rather than a disagreement -- is 
that someone could put a pretty front end on the process, just 
as with normal styles. It wouldn't look or feel like writing a 
macro.


> Let me clarify one thing: I have no objection to your macro.
> Actually, I would go as far as saying that your macro (or
> more probably a more exhaustive and customizable successor
> of it) is *the* correct /*WORKAROUND*/ for a limitation in
> OOo: the inability to cascade character styles.
> 
> Just to make my point even clearer: I have *no* objection to
> 'language' being treated at the same level as fonts or
> whatever; it is, after all, a textual property, albeit not
> an immediatly visual one (since in really it influences
> hyphenation and hence ultimately typesetting). My gripe is
> with OOo's inability to cascade styles. Your usage of macros
> is a barely functional (although /the/ optimal one, given
> what we have) workaround. The limitation in OOo remains, and
> IMHO *should* *be* *addressed*.
> 
Agreed.

> The next question is: is there already an issue on this?
> Should we create it? Note the the issue should be on the
> cascability (ehehehe) of (at least character, but I would
> also say paragraph) styles, not so much specifically on the
> management of language; indeed, allowing cascading styles
> will solve the language issue *and* a bunch of other
> problems.
> 

I don't know if there is anything in IZ. It's something that 
might get into 3.0. I quite agree that the central problem is 
cascading styles. The mechanisms are certainly there in the API 
to implement them.

I don't think, though, that they should entirely replace the 
present sort. Both have advantages and disadvantages.And if we 
do have both, there is potential for even more user confusion 
than styles presently cause. 

It does seem to me a prime example of the sort of thing which 
could be written as an extension, and tested like that, by 
interested parties. 


-- 
Andrew Brown
The email in the header does not work.
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Re: [discuss] Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad

2005-10-29 Thread Brian Lunergan

Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
> Saturday, October 29, 2005 Jonathon Blake wrote:
> 
> 
>>Marco wrote:
> 
> 
>>>objective data, with a determination that can only be explained by:
>>> 1) serious mental disability, or
>>> 2) deliberate trolling
> 
> 
>>3) He still hopes to become a stand up comic.
> 
> 
> I would discard that hypothesis. He's neither of: funny,
> sarcastic, entertaining, profound, vitriolic.
> 

Well, I've just created a filter that deletes any mail I get with his
address in the sender position.

I'm not sure chucking him out is called for. My Org Behaviour course has
been talking about behaviour modification in the workplace. We've all
been rewarding his behaviour by being a good audience and responding
every time he opens his mouth. Extinction of the behaviour is what we
want, isn't it? So whether you call it "giving the cold shoulder" or
that lovely Brit expression "sending him to Coventry" I vote that we use
the blocked sender or msg filter capability of our email program to
simply not listen to him. If we're patient he will get the hint his
approach and manner are completely unacceptable if he wishes to take
part in this group's discussions.

-- 
Brian Lunergan
Nepean, Ontario
Canada

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Re: [discuss] Re: Re: re: Massachussetts registered voters


Daniel Carrera wrote:

Is there a short reference (which of course means reliable as well) on 
this?



Perhaps not "short" but certainly reliable and well worth the read.

Primary sources:

[...]


Daniel.


Thanks!
Cor

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|   |
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Re: [discuss] thanks, quick question

2005-10-29 Thread Henrik Sundberg

2005/10/29, Timothy Stockdale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Greetings,
>   Thanks for your product. I was just wondering whether or not this is
> completely legal. Even using it to open certain Microsoft files? (Word,
> Powerpoint, Excel)

I'm also uncertain. Is the reversed engineering ,used to construct the
import export filters, completely legal?
/Henrik

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Re: [discuss] Re: Re: Re: Multiple character styles (was: Re: Mixed language text spellchecking question)

2005-10-29 Thread Nicolas Mailhot

Le samedi 29 octobre 2005 à 12:41 +0200, Giuseppe Bilotta a écrit :

> An obvious remark is that text in a foreign language is in
> that foreign language, full stop. It's highly dubious that
> you could have second thoughts ("hm, maybe this isn't
> Russian, maybe this is Japanese") and have such second
> thoughts consistently across all occurrences of that
> language.

Which means hard formatting like done with the macro is the right thing
to do in the langage case

>  *However*, taking your example ("different font
> for Swedish text") is exactly the reason why it should
> nevertheless be part of an appropriate style, and not be
> applied manually (or macroly): if halfway through a document
> to decide, or otherwise need, to set all the foreign text
> in a different font (or with a different font property,
> typically in italic), you can of course change the macro,
> which will work for all the *future* text, but it won't
> change all the text you already typed in. This is *exactly*
> what styles were made for.

This is an argument for putting language conditionals in styles, not
making styles set language like nowadays. I understand what you'd like
OO.o to do but langage management is not a valid argument. Free style
mixing (with attributes that really belong in styles) is a valid
argument.

With free cascading styles you'd have a better workaround for languages
than now, since you'd be able to short-circuit the macro step but it
would still be a workaround. Just consider what happens if someone
changes the language in your style instead of just changing the
formatting attributes -> instant content loss

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

Re: [discuss] Re: Re: Re: Multiple character styles (was: Re: Mixed language text spellchecking question)

This is a long reply, so please read it through before
replying to it :)

Friday, October 28, 2005 Andrew Brown wrote:

> Well, I think that the border between hard and soft
> formatting is more flexible than you suppose. Down at the
> level of the actual XML, they are equally hard. What makes
> something "soft" rather than "hard" is that it can be
> redefined independently to reflect its semantics. For
> example, the important thing about a "Heading 1" style is
> that it represents an important subject division, and I
> can decorate this as I want with a whole bundle of
> formatting attributes that can be separately redefined.
> But a language attribute can't be decorated in that way.
> It is is purely semantic. It's on the line between hard
> and soft in that sense.

> There's nothing to stop my macro being expanded to add
> something like a different font for Swedish text. In that
> case, with two attributes, it's applying a style -- but
> (and this may be important) one which inherits all the
> other attributes from the surrounding text. And it's that
> broad- minded inheritance mechanism which you can't easily
> set up with the stylist, which demands that you specify
> the style from which yours will inherit. I still think I
> am applying a style here, rather than hard formatting. Of
> course, if you want to change that style, you have to edit
> the macro, rather than the style defnition; and this is a
> pain. But it doesn't have to be. A sufficiently ingenious
> add-on writer could make a dialogue box that let you
> rewrite the macro as easily as you currently change
> styles. Then what would the difference be?

Let me reply to these two paragraphs at the same time. The
main difference between manually (or macro) applied
'formatting' (and I'm including language in this because
it's a property which is handled at the same level as actual
visual formatting in OOo) and formatting applied via styles
is that the former, once applied sticks there, while the
second can mutate by changing the style. Hence the
difference between 'hard' and 'soft'. In some way, the first
is 'carved in stone' whereas the second is only 'indicated'.

An obvious remark is that text in a foreign language is in
that foreign language, full stop. It's highly dubious that
you could have second thoughts ("hm, maybe this isn't
Russian, maybe this is Japanese") and have such second
thoughts consistently across all occurrences of that
language. *However*, taking your example ("different font
for Swedish text") is exactly the reason why it should
nevertheless be part of an appropriate style, and not be
applied manually (or macroly): if halfway through a document
to decide, or otherwise need, to set all the foreign text
in a different font (or with a different font property,
typically in italic), you can of course change the macro,
which will work for all the *future* text, but it won't
change all the text you already typed in. This is *exactly*
what styles were made for.

I hope this helps explaining what I understand to be the
difference between hard and soft formatting, and why it's
pertinent to this discussion :)

Now, concerning your macro:

> In any case, the interesting question is whether my method
> is actually useful to anyone. I can't see that OOo will
> change its model for representing languages in a hurry. In
> the meantime there are lots of people who have problems
> with the present system. I offer a way around some of
> those problems. It may be imperfect. But it may be better
> than nothing.

Let me clarify one thing: I have no objection to your macro.
Actually, I would go as far as saying that your macro (or
more probably a more exhaustive and customizable successor
of it) is *the* correct /*WORKAROUND*/ for a limitation in
OOo: the inability to cascade character styles.

Just to make my point even clearer: I have *no* objection to
'language' being treated at the same level as fonts or
whatever; it is, after all, a textual property, albeit not
an immediatly visual one (since in really it influences
hyphenation and hence ultimately typesetting). My gripe is
with OOo's inability to cascade styles. Your usage of macros
is a barely functional (although /the/ optimal one, given
what we have) workaround. The limitation in OOo remains, and
IMHO *should* *be* *addressed*.

The next question is: is there already an issue on this?
Should we create it? Note the the issue should be on the
cascability (ehehehe) of (at least character, but I would
also say paragraph) styles, not so much specifically on the
management of language; indeed, allowing cascading styles
will solve the language issue *and* a bunch of other
problems.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

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Re: [discuss] Re: Multiple character styles (was: Re: Mixed language text spellchecking question)

Saturday, October 29, 2005 Andrew Brown wrote:

> Nicolas Mailhot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in 
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

>> The problem is this kind of linking is strictly hierarchical, you have
>> to think beforehand how your styles will be combined, and if you change
>> your mind later (or inherit the document of someone else) the whole
>> style hierarchy must be redone.
>> 

> Sorry to keep banging on here, but I have demonstrated a way around this
> problem and it is important.

And sorry to keep banging on here too, but while your macro
solution could be used as a workaround, I'd be happy to know
your thoughts on my analysis on why the problem should be
fixed (at the OOo code level) otherwise and an issue should
be raised anyway :)

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta


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Re: [discuss] Re: Re: re: Massachussetts registered voters


cono wrote:

Is there a short reference (which of course means reliable as well) on 
this?


Perhaps not "short" but certainly reliable and well worth the read.

Primary sources:
* Peter Galli's eWeek article:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1829728,00.asp

* Legal analysis by Marbux (retired lawyer working with Groklaw):
http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=20050331183622861#A4

* Brian Jones from Microsoft admits that it's GPL-incompatible.
http://blogs.msdn.com/brian_jones/archive/2005/09/22/472826.aspx

Good secondary sources:
(these contain good summaries with references to primary sources)

* Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument#Licensing
(skip one paragraph)

* David Wheeler.
http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/why-opendocument-won.html
(search for "GPL")

Cheers,
Daniel.
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Re: [discuss] thanks, quick question

Saturday, October 29, 2005 Jonathon Blake wrote:

> Timothy wrote:

>>whether or not this is completely legal.

> It is legal to use.
> You can also sell, or give away as many copies as you want to.

In fact, I would say you are *encouraged* to give away
copies. Spread the word. It's extremely important that as
many people as possible know of its existence.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

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[discuss] Importing fonts into OO 2.0 specific to: Mac OS X Tiger (and other useful mods)

2005-10-29 Thread Joe Wheeler


I'm new to this, I hope this is going to the appropriate forum.

I've downloaded OO 2.0 for Mac OS X, it is fantastic. It is also very  
unwieldy for Mac users. The help file is of no use, nor the various  
archived e-mail and forum tips. Why? Well, OO has evolved, and so has  
the X11 interface for the Mac. All old instructions are not likely to  
work.


Most of OO 2 works "out of the box" in OS X 10.42 Tiger; however, Mac  
users have long since memorized key-commands for copying, pasting,  
cutting and undo, that are standard across the Mac platform. Using  
"Control" is an extra mental step. Since OO is running under the  
Apple versions of X11 (I'm assuming for the sake of this note), the  
first thing is to regain Mac key strokes. This is done simply, by,  
under X11 preferences, disabling the "enabling Key Equivalents."


More importantly, since OO does not read the Mac font folders,  
instead having its own, one has to install desired fonts using an  
included executable file called "spadmin." For Mac users, the help  
file directions are unhelpful. Why? Because the 2.0 version of OO for  
OS X is included in a "package" which differs from ordinary  
directories, and since spadmin is in the package (contents/ 
openoffice.org2.0/share/program/spadmin), there are some tricks to  
get spadmin to run as an "application" under X11. First, let me go  
back and say you will only be able to see the internals of the  
package if you hold down the Control key while clicking on  
openoffice.org2.0 and selecting "view package contents" -- then you  
can continue to navigate until you see "spadmin" within the  program  
directory. But then you have to give the path to spadmin to X11, and  
simply typing a path statement with forward slashes won't do it for  
you. This is a package, remember? Shades of backslashes a la DOS and  
switches! Really. The way to get the correct path is to reveal the  
package, navigate to spadmin, open up Mac's Terminal program in an  
adjacent window, drag spadmin into it, and it will display the proper  
path. Here's the way it appeared in mine:
/Applications/OpenOffice.org\ 2.0.app/Contents/openoffice.org2.0/ 
program/spadmin -- notice the backslash in the midst of the second  
entry, who'd have known? Well, now you do. Don't copy and paste my  
example, 'lest you installed OO somewhere else; find spadmin and drag  
it into Terminal to get the proper path in your machine. Then copy  
that path and got to X11, choose Applications -->Customize, in the  
leftr column, name your "application" OpenOffice Admin or whatever is  
meaningful to you, then hit the tab key and in the middle section  
paste in the path you copied out of Terminal. Click on Done, and,  
well, you're done. Go to X11s Applications menu and choose your new  
application, and (wait for a few seconds for it to boot) voila! --  
spadmin will launch and you can import fonts.


But waitaminute!! You have to have acceptable fonts to import. Mac  
fonts as supplied are generally a no-no. Windows fonts, yes, but  
you're asking for headaches due to font table weirdness. The fonts  
that work best are Unix. If you don't have any of these, you'll have  
to convert your favorite fonts to Unix format. One way is to go  
through the horror of downloading Fink and using Fondu. There you can  
convert your Mac fonts to Unix format, but for some this has been  
problematic (sometimes resolved by deleting the pspfonts.config file  
in the truetype directory [Yeah, I know, if you're converting and/or  
installing Type 1 fonts it is weird they're being installed in a  
truetype directory]). If Fondu isn't doing it for you, or you don't  
want to bother with the Fink download, you can convert all your fonts  
to Unix (except OpenType and some datafork only Unicode fonts) in OS  
9 using either Fontographer or Metamorphosis. Well, I'm sorry if it  
is a hassle; I think it is worth it, since once you have OpenOfffice  
running, you will be astounded that it actually is more powerful than  
the commercial Office package that costs many hundreds of dollars.


Unless I'm deluged, I'd consider converting batches of people's fonts  
to Unix for $5 a 4-weight family or $3 an individual face (around  
$7-8 for fonts with more weights/variants); at this cost, I'm not  
making any real money, so this is not a commercial offer where I get  
rich, it is part of my belief that Open Office is a real alternative  
for the Mac and should be used and supported. One other note:  
MultiMaster fonts don't seem to work, so don't bother to send me  
those. As for the little bit of money, I' won't charge your PayPal  
account until I've determined that the converted font works okay. The  
fee is a pittance anyway, something to keep my fonts hobby going.


If it turns out I get too many requests, I reserve the right to  
demur; my motivation is to see that people have an alternative to M$  
and yet have access their Mac typography in OpenOffice. BTW, don't

Re: [discuss] Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad

Saturday, October 29, 2005 Jonathon Blake wrote:

> Marco wrote:

>> objective data, with a determination that can only be explained by:
>>  1) serious mental disability, or
>>  2) deliberate trolling

> 3) He still hopes to become a stand up comic.

I would discard that hypothesis. He's neither of: funny,
sarcastic, entertaining, profound, vitriolic.

-- 
Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta

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[discuss] Re: general input/output error

2005-10-29 Thread Terry North

You can also fix this problem by using Tools /Macros /Organize Macros
/OpenOffice. org Basic Macros - click on the "Organizer" button on the dialog
then the "Libraries" tab, in the "Location" bar select "OpenOffice.org Macros &
Dialogs", select the old scripts listed in turn and delete them.  You should
also use the "append" button to list the new scripts - in my case they are at
opt/ OpenOffice. org 2.0/ share/ basic/
 aol.com> writes:





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[discuss] Re: Re: Multiple character styles (was: Re: Mixed language text spellchecking question)

2005-10-29 Thread Andrew Brown

Nicolas Mailhot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 

>> > The problem is this kind of linking is strictly hierarchical, you
>> > have to think beforehand how your styles will be combined, and if
>> > you change your mind later (or inherit the document of someone
>> > else) the whole style hierarchy must be redone.
>> > 
>> 
>> Sorry to keep banging on here, but I have demonstrated a way around
>> this problem and it is important.
> 
> Sure. It's a pity you have to do it voa macros though. That's out of
> the reach of many users.
> 
> 

This is one of the things that Laurent Godard's new project -- whether 
it's called scripting, extensions, addons or anything else -- should be 
helping with. Ideally this kind of trick will end up there, all nicely 
packaged and easy to download and install for anyone who wants it. The 
bits are all there to make this possible. 

I know that hardly anyone can write macros, and the overwhelming majority 
of users can't even install them, though that isn't really very much 
trouble for anyone sufficiently motivated, as a translator would be. But 
if the business of installation is made as simple as "go to this web 
site: click on that button" it won't be so much of an obstacle. 

I'm pretty certain it is technically possible to wrap the styling routine 
in something that add a new item to the format menu called "language" 
which would lead to a submenu that offered all the languages for which 
the user had dictionaries installed. The point is that this could all be 
done by non-programmers, like me -- at least people who don't know any 
C++ and couldn't begin to hack on the main OOo code. 

(the other point is that I'm too busy to do it right now)

-- 
Andrew Brown
The email in the header does not work.
Contact details and possibly useful macros from
http://www.darwinwars.com/lunatic/bugs/oo_macros.html


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Re: [discuss] Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad

2005-10-29 Thread Ian Lynch

On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 13:46 -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
> Daniel Carrera wrote:
> > M. Fioretti wrote:
> > 
> >> In the last year C. Smith has repeatedly annoyed many other members of
> >> this list. Apart from (lack of) good manners, he has consistantly
> >> demonstrated ignorance of basic IT and industry policy concepts,
> >> regardless of how many times they have been proven to him with
> >> objective data, with a determination that can only be explained by:
> >>
> >>  1) serious mental disability, or
> >>  2) deliberate trolling
> > 
> > 
> > +1 Unsubscribe Chad.
> 
> +1

+1
-- 
Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ZMSL


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Re: [discuss] Re: Re: re: Massachussetts registered voters


Hi Daniel,

Daniel Carrera wrote:


Today, it does. There's nothing saying tomorrow's MSO won't save in
formats designed to be read by other programs.


What's worse, we *know* that MS is moving to a new file format with 
patent restrictions that explicitly prevent OOo or any GPL-compatible 
software from implementing it.



The fact we can read a MSO doucment anywhere else is fortunate,



And not thanks to anything Microsoft did, but inspite their efforts to 
lock competitors out.



and I
would go as far as to say Microsoft considers this to be a problem they
are in the process of "fixing" (read: breaking utterly for anyone but
users of their products).



Oh, we know they are. They are now using the courts and the legal system 
to prevent their main competitors from reading their formats.


Is there a short reference (which of course means reliable as well) on this?

Thanks,

Cor


--
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|   |
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| Cor Nouws, http://www.nouenoff.nl |
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Re: [discuss] Re: Multiple character styles (was: Re: Mixed language text spellchecking question)

2005-10-29 Thread Nicolas Mailhot

Le samedi 29 octobre 2005 à 03:55 +, Andrew Brown a écrit :
> Nicolas Mailhot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in 
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> 
> > The problem is this kind of linking is strictly hierarchical, you have
> > to think beforehand how your styles will be combined, and if you change
> > your mind later (or inherit the document of someone else) the whole
> > style hierarchy must be redone.
> > 
> 
> Sorry to keep banging on here, but I have demonstrated a way around this 
> problem and it is important.

Sure. It's a pity you have to do it voa macros though. That's out of the
reach of many users.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

Re: [discuss] Re: Re: re: Massachussetts registered voters


Shawn K. Quinn wrote:


And, as far as Andrew's statement being "absurd", OOo *DOES* open MSO
stuff- and so do hundreds of other non-MS programs. If every piece of
MSO Software on earth disappeared, through some sort of mega-virus, or
"miracle", the *DATA* of the files said in their ultra-secret, evil,
litttle propriatary software will be completely intact.


Today, it does. There's nothing saying tomorrow's MSO won't save in
formats designed to be read by other programs.


What's worse, we *know* that MS is moving to a new file format with 
patent restrictions that explicitly prevent OOo or any GPL-compatible 
software from implementing it.



The fact we can read a MSO doucment anywhere else is fortunate,


And not thanks to anything Microsoft did, but inspite their efforts to 
lock competitors out.



and I
would go as far as to say Microsoft considers this to be a problem they
are in the process of "fixing" (read: breaking utterly for anyone but
users of their products).


Oh, we know they are. They are now using the courts and the legal system 
to prevent their main competitors from reading their formats.


Cheers,
Daniel.
--
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[discuss] Re: Key-binding macros

2005-10-29 Thread Terry North

You can use Tools /Customize /Keyboard or Tools /Macros /Organize Macros to
attach macros appended to soffice to a keystroke.  In spreadsheets, you cannot
assign keystrokes to macros contained in documents (except, apparently, when the
macro is first written and before the file is closed and re-opened).  I have
filed an issue - see http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=56351  If
the same problem occurs in Writer as in Calc, perhaps you should file an issue.
Bob Harvey  home.net.nz> writes:


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Re: [discuss] Request to unsusbscribe (or at least ignore) Chad

2005-10-29 Thread Jonathon Blake

Marco wrote:

> objective data, with a determination that can only be explained by:
>  1) serious mental disability, or
>  2) deliberate trolling

3) He still hopes to become a stand up comic.

xan

jonathon
--
Does your Office Suite conform to ISO Standards?

Re: [discuss] about error code 1


Do Santo File wrote:
I'm having problems when i try opening a new database and click on TABLES  I get an error same as the described in the link below 
I'm runing windows XP pro 
is there a fix for it ?


 
http://www.mail-archive.com/dba-bugs@openoffice.org/msg00440.html



Your version is 680m71. Rather old.
Pls udate to 2.0
Nevertheless, there are some bugs left in te new Base-module.
Succes,

Cor

(pls reley to the list only)
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Re: [discuss] about error code 1