Re: [discuss] Re: a more complete office suite

[Jonathon Blake]

Chad wrote:

>(5) OOo can already do it if you write this macro, hack this code,
download this patch, compile  this completely unrelated program, build
this bridge in Perl, and it only works on Linux -- plus it's not gonna
work exactly like you think it should.. (NOTE: #5 is an exaggeration
to prove a point,

That is _not_ an exaggeration, if you want to edit PDFs in OOo.

>Kinda like what happened with Base.

The argument against Base was slightly different.  For starters, OOo
1.x included a dBase clone, and had (some) hooks for SQL
interactivity.  The big issue was which SQL database implementation
was going to be Incorporated into OOo.

**

_If_ the hooks for an email client are included in OOo, then the questions are:
i) Can a bridge to an existing email client be written?
or
ii) is it "better" to compile an existing email client into OOo?

However, if what people mean by "outlook" is _not_ an email client,
but a calendar function, or a PIM, then solution is much different: 
To wit:
i)  Find/replace/update the dBase templates, and document how to use them.
ii) Document how to read/write/edit data in _thisPIM_ using OOo. 
[Where "thisPIM" is a PIM.  Write one document for every known PIM.]
iii) Document how to read/write/edit data in _thisCalenderFunction_
using OOo.  [Where "ThisCalenderFunction" is a Calendar.  Write one
document for every known Calendar.]

xan

jonathon
--
Does your Office Suite conform to ISO Standards?

[discuss] Free OOo training videos

[Christian Einfeldtextra]

I haven't seen a post yet to this email list about this OOo training
videothat
Roblimo Miller has made available, but these videos are pretty good,
and they're released under a cc license. You should feel free to post links
liberally. I plan to host them on the Digital Tipping
Pointwebsite and on
DIYparts.org .

Can we get these videos posted on the OOo website?

Here is the Slashdot discussion of these videos.

http://slashdot.org/articles/05/11/12/1547206.shtml?tid=185&tid=146

My apologies if this is a duplicate.

See ya

Re: [discuss] Re: a more complete office suite

[Chad Smith]

On 11/12/05, Alexandro Colorado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> You can buy outlook for 100 instead of MSO for 300+ dls, this means you
> save 200 per desktop.


Individuals can buy a Retail copy of MSO for $150. Busineses can get it for
cheaper if they buy in volume and/or buy it OEM. As both prices decrease
(MSO and just OL) the differences also decrease, to the point it would be
wasteful to buy Outlook and *not* by the complete suite.

Make sure you are asking for an email client Outlook is not just an email
> client and if OOo end up having an email client you might be criying that
> you mean a whole PIM-app.


Yes, I think most people mean an Outlook replacement, not just an email
client. To them, Outlook is email, just like Excel is spreadsheet. Having
never used Outlook, I can't say, personally, what they want. But I want an
email client and a PIM. I'd like to reitterate that I think a partnering
with Mozilla would be the best answer, but if that isn't possible, building
an OOo version would be good.

> 2. This idea that OpenOffice only concentrates on applications that are
> > not available from other packages is completely bogus. Look at
> OpenOffice
> > Draw for example and compare it to packages like Inkscape.
>
> That's because OOo is not a clone to MSO
>

What you said has nothing to do with what he said. So because MSO has
something, OOo can't? Does that mean we're getting rid of Writer, and Calc,
and Impress, and, well, heck, everything but Draw and Flash export?

I understand (truly I do, I've been preached at enough about this) I
*REALLY* understand that OOo is not an MSO clone. I get it. I know. I dig
it. I comprehend.

BUT

Using that line as an excuse for why OOo doesn't have this useful feature
that MSO does, (like, oh, say, WORD COUNT - yes people actually told me OOo
wasn't a MSO clone when defending it's lack of, or burial of, a decent word
count feature), does not explain it. It doesn't even come close. It doesn't
even excuse it.

If Competitor A is doing something right, or providing a service that people
need, and Competitor B isn't, and Competitor B sees Competitor A doing it.
It does not make Competitor B a clone of A to do it. It makes them a smart
business person. Learning from others is a sign of intelligence. Being able
to say, "Hey, that guy did this, and people liked it. Maybe I should do
that." doesn't make you a clone. I learned how to talk by listening to
others, and if you can talk, that's how you learned too. People like
Outlook. People buy Outlook. People use Outlook. People want to do things
that Outlook lets them do. It might be nice if we were able to help them do
that. Because, we don't want them to use Outlook.

Outlook has a lot of problems. OOoEmail (which I use to mean the email
client and PIM/calendar thing that doesn't exist yet) would solve a lot of
those problems. Outlook uses ActiveX, which is bad. OOoEmail would use Java,
which is good. Or it wouldn't use either, which is better. Outlook is MS,
which is bad (most on this list would say).. OOoEmail would be open source,
which is good. Outlook is Windows only, (the Mac thing is called Entourage
now, and it's different), which is not good if you don't use Windows.
OOoEmail would be cross-plarform, which rocks. Outlook costs $100, which is
horrid. OOoEmail would be free, (and Free), which is excellent!

OOoEmail could, potentially, provide the features and services Outlook users
want, and solve the problems that Outlook has. I don't see why people who
claim to support Open Source more devoutly and purely than they claim I do
aren't all over this one. Those anti-HTML-email people should be all about
getting people off of OutBreak, or Lookout!, or that
evil-virus/spam=spouting mouth of hell that is Outlook.

--
- Chad Smith
http://www.gimpshop.net/
Because everyone loves free software!

Re: [discuss] Re: a more complete office suite

[Chad Smith]

On 11/12/05, Sam Stainsby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> 2. This idea that OpenOffice only concentrates on applications that are
> not available from other packages is completely bogus. Look at OpenOffice
> Draw for example and compare it to packages like Inkscape.
>

And OOoWriter v AbiWord and OOoBase v MySQL

OOoImpress is fairly unique in the cross-platform open source presentation
world (I, personally, cannot name another such project). The same is true
for Calc.

The arguements against a mail client and PIM are the same as the ones
against Base from a year ago. (1) It takes away choice (2) It duplicates
other projects (3) It's not what it means to be "an office suite" or "a
productivity suite" or "OpenOffice.org" (4) The people who want/need it are
whiny n00bs who don't know anything about anything and (5) OOo can already
do it if you write this macro, hack this code, download this patch, compile
this completely unrelated program, build this bridge in Perl, and it only
works on Linux -- plus it's not gonna work exactly like you think it
should.. (NOTE: #5 is an exagration to prove a point, the "Copy and Paste"
suggestion is not nearly this complex, but it does require a completely
different piece of software, IE an email client, which is what people are
asking for in the first place - but I'm thinking more of the people who say
"OOo *did* have an email client back in the day, so the API is there, if you
want to build one again" - and I'm still bitter about the "Use this Macro to
get Word Count, even though it doesn't count exactly right - we don't need a
f'ing word count anyway!" - although I'm truly grateful for Andrew's work on
the Macro, which I did use until I found the buried "Properties" thing, and
now I have my Word Count button where it should have been in 0.1alpha.)

this is what I think. We're all gonna argue and have opinions, and get our
little feelings hurt, and call for each other to be banned from the land of
Open Source because we disagree, and in a few months or a year or two, Sun
and Google are going to decide that to compete with Office, Star Office
needs an email client and PIM software, and they are going to write one, or
use Thunderbird, or whatever, and the people who wanted the software will be
happy, the ones who complained and moaned about how stupid and useless and
wasteful and "prone to viruses and SPAM" it would be will sudden forget it
was a bad idea and say it's what they wanted all along, they just thought it
was too much work, and then never bring it up again. Kinda like what
happened with Base. :-)

--
- Chad Smith
http://www.gimpshop.net/
Because everyone loves free software!

Re: [discuss] Re: a more complete office suite

[Alexandro Colorado]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:07:49 -, Sam Stainsby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



I think that people that argue that there is no reason to develop a mail

client as part of OpenOffice because there are other mail client

applications available are misguided for two reasons:


Make sure you are asking for an email client and NOT an outlook clone  
which from what I read before in your email is what your company is  
looking for (calendaring features).


Also you mention that your company don't want to move away from Microsoft  
office. You can buy Outlook as a separate package and use OpenOffice.org   
this will save you $200 dls per desktop.


You also mention that your company is not on-line, to have a web-based  
application you only need a network. If your company is not on-line but  
the computers are linked between each other then you will have a deskop.


If your company also is not using it as a groupware (exchange) then you  
might as well install the PIM application like Kde-PIM or even the Palm  
desktop is an outlook clone really.




--
Alexandro Colorado
CoLeader of OpenOffice.org ES
http://es.openoffice.org

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Re: [discuss] Re: a more complete office suite

[Alexandro Colorado]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 00:07:49 -, Sam Stainsby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:24:27 -0500, William Baric wrote:


I had one of them who was willing to switch to OpenOffice. They didn't
have too much money and they were willing to put up with OpenOffice's
Word, Excel and PowerPoint import/export filter (thanks to MS Viewers).
They were also willing to buy Antidote licence (a french grammar checker
that integrate with OpenOffice). But in the end, I had to forget about
this project because of outlook. The director had a Palm and he wanted
calendar sharing. This meant that They had to buy Outlook.


You can buy outlook for 100 instead of MSO for 300+ dls, this means you  
save 200 per desktop.



I also work for an organisation that is unwilling to move away from
Microsoft Office because they feel that they need the calendaring and
meeting arrangement facilities of Outlook, on Windows. Many of them
frequently work offline, so web-based solutions are not applicable. I'm
pinning my hopes on Evolution for Windows, but the project seems to be
moving very slowly (understandably, as it is a complex project with many
libraries to port).

I think that people that argue that there is no reason to develop a mail
client as part of OpenOffice because there are other mail client
applications available are misguided for two reasons:


Make sure you are asking for an email client Outlook is not just an email  
client and if OOo end up having an email client you might be criying that  
you mean a whole PIM-app.




1. The other mail clients don't have the needed functionality on the
commonest desktop platform in the world (please note I'm a Linux user
myself - I don't endorse Microsoft Windows - far from it - but we have to
face the reality that it is out there and this is unlikely to change for
some time).



2. This idea that OpenOffice only concentrates on applications that are
not available from other packages is completely bogus. Look at OpenOffice
Draw for example and compare it to packages like Inkscape.


That's  because OOo is not a clone to MSO

--
Alexandro Colorado
CoLeader of OpenOffice.org ES
http://es.openoffice.org

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Re: [discuss] Re: a more complete office suite

[Adam Moore]

On 11/12/05, Sam Stainsby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I also work for an organisation that is unwilling to move away from
> Microsoft Office because they feel that they need the calendaring and
> meeting arrangement facilities of Outlook, on Windows. Many of them
> frequently work offline, so web-based solutions are not applicable. I'm
> pinning my hopes on Evolution for Windows, but the project seems to be
> moving very slowly (understandably, as it is a complex project with many
> libraries to port).

You can inform them that every exchange cal they purchase comes with a
license for Outlook.  They wouldn't have to get rid of Outlook at all
if they already have those licenses.  Really they can migrate to
openoffice and keep their old outlook licenses.  What would be the
harm in that?

At least this was true up to the Office XP version.

--
Adam Moore
Founding Member
http://www.opendocumentfellowship.org

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[discuss] Re: a more complete office suite

[Sam Stainsby]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:24:27 -0500, William Baric wrote:

> I had one of them who was willing to switch to OpenOffice. They didn't
> have too much money and they were willing to put up with OpenOffice's
> Word, Excel and PowerPoint import/export filter (thanks to MS Viewers).
> They were also willing to buy Antidote licence (a french grammar checker
> that integrate with OpenOffice). But in the end, I had to forget about
> this project because of outlook. The director had a Palm and he wanted
> calendar sharing. This meant that They had to buy Outlook.

I also work for an organisation that is unwilling to move away from
Microsoft Office because they feel that they need the calendaring and
meeting arrangement facilities of Outlook, on Windows. Many of them
frequently work offline, so web-based solutions are not applicable. I'm
pinning my hopes on Evolution for Windows, but the project seems to be
moving very slowly (understandably, as it is a complex project with many
libraries to port).

I think that people that argue that there is no reason to develop a mail
client as part of OpenOffice because there are other mail client
applications available are misguided for two reasons:

1. The other mail clients don't have the needed functionality on the
commonest desktop platform in the world (please note I'm a Linux user
myself - I don't endorse Microsoft Windows - far from it - but we have to
face the reality that it is out there and this is unlikely to change for
some time).

2. This idea that OpenOffice only concentrates on applications that are
not available from other packages is completely bogus. Look at OpenOffice
Draw for example and compare it to packages like Inkscape.


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Re: [discuss] Revision History

[Mathias Bauer]

Henrik Sundberg wrote:
> 2005/11/12, mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> Is it possible to save in an uncompressed XML format?
> 
> Is this the only solution? Being forced to check in directory trees
> for each document seems cumbersome.

You can save OOo documents into one single XML file. Together with
"pretty printing" enabled that's the only reasonable way to use a VCS
for OOo documents because then you have text files and can create diffs.

> Why shouldn't the version control systems be able to handle zipped
> files directly? If they just know that the files are compressed, they
> ought to be able to handle differences between document versions as
> efficient as if the files were pure text.

Good question. But anyway at least currently there is no VCS with this
ability.

> OTOH, I don't want to see the differences in the xml. I want the
> differences to be visible in Writer.

Then the change tracking inside the OOo document is exactly what you
need, or the versioning system together with the "compare versions"
functionality. I know you said you want it outside the document - but at
least ATM you can't have everything. ;-)

> A bit of both would be to use subversion as is, and then use a
> diff-program that produce the same result as I expect "File >
> Versions" to produce.
> 
> Is there such a diff function included in OOo? Or does another
> OpenDocument diff utility exist?

Did you try "File-Compare Documents"?

Best regards,
Mathias

-- 
Mathias Bauer - OpenOffice.org Application Framework Project Lead
Please reply to the list only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a spam sink.

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Re: [discuss] Re: Re: Revision History

[Caleb Marcus]

Andrew Brown wrote:

Caleb Marcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:43764C34.2040005
@gmail.com:

  
Aha! I see what happened here. I have been mainly using Writer lately 
for homework projects that needed to be submitted in doc format. If 
you load a doc file Versions doesn't appear in the menu (presumably 
because the MS idea of versioning is incompatible with OOo). When I 
loaded an odt it was there.


Thanks! Learn something every day.

  
Just a random suggestion, try using DOC less and use RTF. It is 
understood by almost all office software (including Office) and can't 
carry a virus.





Yes, but our RTF filters are horrible. Much worse than the .doc ones. And 
-- really -- you can't get word viruses if you use OOo to open word 
documents. 

  
True, but some viruses infect DOC files on the disk, and sending 
infected files to Word users will infect them.

[discuss] Re: Re: Revision History

[Andrew Brown]

Caleb Marcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:43764C34.2040005
@gmail.com:

>> Aha! I see what happened here. I have been mainly using Writer lately 
>> for homework projects that needed to be submitted in doc format. If 
>> you load a doc file Versions doesn't appear in the menu (presumably 
>> because the MS idea of versioning is incompatible with OOo). When I 
>> loaded an odt it was there.
>>
>> Thanks! Learn something every day.
>>
> Just a random suggestion, try using DOC less and use RTF. It is 
> understood by almost all office software (including Office) and can't 
> carry a virus.
> 

Yes, but our RTF filters are horrible. Much worse than the .doc ones. And 
-- really -- you can't get word viruses if you use OOo to open word 
documents. 

-- 
Andrew Brown
The email in the header does not work.
Contact details and possibly useful macros from
http://www.darwinwars.com/lunatic/bugs/oo_macros.html


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[discuss] Re: Revision History

[Andrew Brown]

Randomthots <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:dl55km$jh$1
@sea.gmane.org:

> This is what I meant about the Help being inaccurate. On OO2, Windows 
> version, I have no "Versions" menu item under File. I have "Changes" 
> under the Edit menu. Are these the same thing?
> 

You don't? Are you sure? Under "Reload"? I certainly do. (This is on 
Windows).

It's not the same thing as changes, since changes feature doesn' save 
snapshopts, the way that versioning does. 

-- 
Andrew Brown
The email in the header does not work.
Contact details and possibly useful macros from
http://www.darwinwars.com/lunatic/bugs/oo_macros.html


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[discuss] Re: Revision History

[Randomthots]

Caleb Marcus wrote:




Just a random suggestion, try using DOC less and use RTF. It is 
understood by almost all office software (including Office) and can't 
carry a virus.


Unfortunately, I'm running into one of those situations that mark is 
having. They CAN accept papers/homework in other formats like pdf, but 
they use a commercial system called Blackboard (tm) for the virtual 
classes. Apparently, there is some way -- I'm not sure what -- that it 
is set up to use Word doc files which makes it much more convenient for 
the instructors. But on the bright side, they haven't indicated any 
problems with the files produced by OOo.


--

Rod


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Re: [discuss] Re: Revision History

[Caleb Marcus]

Randomthots wrote:

Peter Hillier-Brook wrote:


Randomthots wrote:


G. Roderick Singleton wrote:




Hmm, does File > Versions not fill your requirements?  I think it 
should

do the job.




This is what I meant about the Help being inaccurate. On OO2, 
Windows version, I have no "Versions" menu item under File. I have 
"Changes" under the Edit menu. Are these the same thing?


File/Versions is certainly there in OOo 2.0 under WinXP: I use it all 
the time. It is greyed out for new files and only becomes operative 
after loading a previously saved file, as would be expected.


Have a closer look under the File menu: Versions appears about half 
way down.


Regards

Peter HB


Aha! I see what happened here. I have been mainly using Writer lately 
for homework projects that needed to be submitted in doc format. If 
you load a doc file Versions doesn't appear in the menu (presumably 
because the MS idea of versioning is incompatible with OOo). When I 
loaded an odt it was there.


Thanks! Learn something every day.

Just a random suggestion, try using DOC less and use RTF. It is 
understood by almost all office software (including Office) and can't 
carry a virus.


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Re: [discuss] Why?

[Caleb Marcus]

Ian Lynch wrote:

On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 03:39 +0900, Roger Markus wrote:

  

 It seemed (seems) to me that you have been more interested in pounding away
at a narrow view and ignoring many facts pointed out to you regarding the
wider picture.



Chad Smith has demonstrated on many occassions that he has no ability to
see past the end of his nose. You are wasting your time trying to reason
with him.

  
Y'know, there's something on almost EVERY email client, even webmail 
clients, that would be really useful. It's called... a FILTER! I suggest 
all of you who are sick of Chad's comments should look in their client's 
help and figure out how to use it. Seriously, the Chad-hating has gotten 
worse than his own idiocy, so I am blocking everything with Chad in the 
body.

[discuss] .doc format

[mark]

*sigh*

Well, Rod emailed me his Real Word Doc (tm), and his OO.o doc. I made my 
own with OO.o. First thing I noted was that it calls itself a 
Word-Dokument, so I fixed that to Word Document. Tried to upload it to 
Monster... no joy, It still claims that I'm trying to upload a .doc type 
file(!)


Anyone have a clue as to what they're using to parse the document?

mark

--
"If you need to recruit and train a thousand superb people, ...the best 
way is to recruit and train a million people, and then pick the best ten 
per cent... The result is, even though there are as many jerks as ever, 
they are all jerks with... generally good jobs,... something to lose, so 
they behave themselves.  No such thing as high crime areas anymore." 
--  Buzz Aldrin, Encounter with Tiber


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Re: [discuss] Why?

[Ian Lynch]

On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 03:39 +0900, Roger Markus wrote:

>  It seemed (seems) to me that you have been more interested in pounding away
> at a narrow view and ignoring many facts pointed out to you regarding the
> wider picture.

Chad Smith has demonstrated on many occassions that he has no ability to
see past the end of his nose. You are wasting your time trying to reason
with him.

-- 
Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ZMSL


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Re: [discuss] Revision History

[mark]

Henrik Sundberg wrote:

2005/11/12, mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


What would be more reasonable would be a plug-in interface to a CM tool,
such as CVS, or Subversion.


I agree. I don't want my documents to grow indefinitely, And I don't
want to export all versions of my documents.
But can Subversion handle OpenDocuments in a good way?


Haven't worked with that - of F/OSS CM tools, I've only worked with sccs 
and CVS. But as the person below suggests, unless you save it as XML, 
there *is* no way for any revision control system to treat it as other 
than binary, because it *is* a binary file. That includes M$ Word and 
zipfiles. If anyone wants to argue, then *please* go do some research 
first, and see what these words actually mean, and not just fling 'em 
around like magic spells.


I haven't looked closely enough, but you can store single files, not 
only whole directory trees. CVS *does* want to extract it to a specific 
directory (sorry, folder to all you GUI addicts ), but you can check 
out and check in one file.



One thing that you *REALLY* *NEED* to do, when you check something in, 
is make comments (you *will* always be prompted for them) as to *what* 
the changes were about, not just "updated document" - that's *utterly* 
useless to you in three months, or if someone else needs to check out 
the document, or pull out an older revision.


mark
--
"Conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in philosophy; 
the search for a moral justification for selfishness."  -- John Kenneth 
Galbraith


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Re: [discuss] Why?

[Roger Markus]

On 11/13/05, Chad Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If you are referring to my statements that you don't need *any* Microsoft
> software to use MSO file formats - I don't see how thats an attack. For
> Pete's sake - OpenOffice.org (the program who's list were on) - opens the
> bloody formats! It reads them, edits them, saves them, creates them. OOo
> is
> crossplatfrom, so with *JUST* OOo and other OSes, anyone in the world can
> open, read, edit, save, and create MSO files without MS Software. I don't
> see how in the world that could be an attack for me saying that. MSO
> compatiblity is one of the main features that makes OOo valuable.


 It seemed (seems) to me that you have been more interested in pounding away
at a narrow view and ignoring many facts pointed out to you regarding the
wider picture. Given the record that Microsoft has and looking up the road
towards what many of us see coming, you might consider that - while
Microsoft may not be a pack of demons from h***, nor are they a team of
angels descended from heaven.

Again - why do you support Microsoft first and foremost and OpenOffice as an
afterthought?

RM

Re: [discuss] An idea for a layout style in text.

[Cor Nouws]

Hello Bill,

Bill Piper wrote:

Would it be possible to have a layout Style (in Text)  which allows 
space for marginal notes.
I tried Marginalia, but was unable to write anything to the left of the 
margin.
I tried having some variable columns for a short section, but there were 
too many variables, and I could not control the page.


At this moment I would start with a frame.
If you use the toolbar Insert, and click on the frame-symbol, you can 
drag a frame where you want it.

Then rightclick and choose ancher to character.
To get in the frame, click outside it (to unselect) and then inside.

Maybe not so sophisticated as other solutions, but it works fimnoe with me.

Greetings,

Cor



--
--
|  you need it - je hebt het nodig  |
|   |
|  OpenOffice.org   |
|   |
| Cor Nouws, http://www.nouenoff.nl |
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[discuss] Re: Revision History

[Randomthots]

Peter Hillier-Brook wrote:


Randomthots wrote:


G. Roderick Singleton wrote:




Hmm, does File > Versions not fill your requirements?  I think it should
do the job.




This is what I meant about the Help being inaccurate. On OO2, Windows 
version, I have no "Versions" menu item under File. I have "Changes" 
under the Edit menu. Are these the same thing?


File/Versions is certainly there in OOo 2.0 under WinXP: I use it all 
the time. It is greyed out for new files and only becomes operative 
after loading a previously saved file, as would be expected.


Have a closer look under the File menu: Versions appears about half way 
down.


Regards

Peter HB


Aha! I see what happened here. I have been mainly using Writer lately 
for homework projects that needed to be submitted in doc format. If you 
load a doc file Versions doesn't appear in the menu (presumably because 
the MS idea of versioning is incompatible with OOo). When I loaded an 
odt it was there.


Thanks! Learn something every day.

--

Rod


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[discuss] An idea for a layout style in text.

[Bill Piper]

Would it be possible to have a layout Style (in Text)  which allows 
space for marginal notes.
I tried Marginalia, but was unable to write anything to the left of the 
margin.
I tried having some variable columns for a short section, but there were 
too many variables, and I could not control the page.

Bill

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[discuss] Reply re Wordwrap in Base Forms

[Peter Robertson]

Hi CP Hennessy,

I am using using Open Office 2.00 with Windows XP Home installed on an 
Intel Celeron box with 256 Mb of RAM.


Trusting that this answers your query.

I now have an OO 1.1.5 Form working with Ver 2.00 and providing word wrap.

Thank you for your interest.

Regards,
Peter Robertson
Moneyworks Accounting Software
Adelaide & Stirling



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Re: [discuss] Revision History

[Henrik Sundberg]

2005/11/12, mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> What would be more reasonable would be a plug-in interface to a CM tool,
> such as CVS, or Subversion.

I agree. I don't want my documents to grow indefinitely, And I don't
want to export all versions of my documents.
But can Subversion handle OpenDocuments in a good way?

>From another thread:
2005/11/10, Jim Higson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> I have a bunch of sxw files in a subversion repository (documentation for an
> Open Source project). It'd be nice if the repo didn't have to treat them as
> binary so it could do merge operations when several people make minor
> changes.
>
> Is it possible to save in an uncompressed XML format?

Is this the only solution? Being forced to check in directory trees
for each document seems cumbersome.
Why shouldn't the version control systems be able to handle zipped
files directly? If they just know that the files are compressed, they
ought to be able to handle differences between document versions as
efficient as if the files were pure text.
OTOH, I don't want to see the differences in the xml. I want the
differences to be visible in Writer. Which result in:

 2005/11/12, G. Roderick Singleton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hmm, does File > Versions not fill your requirements?  I think it should
> do the job.

A bit of both would be to use subversion as is, and then use a
diff-program that produce the same result as I expect "File >
Versions" to produce.

Is there such a diff function included in OOo? Or does another
OpenDocument diff utility exist?

I'm sorry for being too verbose.
/$

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Re: [discuss] Re: Revision History

[Steve Kopischke]

on 11/12/05 10:35 'Randomthots' wrote:

G. Roderick Singleton wrote:



Hmm, does File > Versions not fill your requirements?  I think it should
do the job.


This is what I meant about the Help being inaccurate. On OO2, Windows 
version, I have no "Versions" menu item under File. I have "Changes" 
under the Edit menu. Are these the same thing?




I am also running OOo2 under Windows (XPPro). I have both File>Versions 
and Edit>Changes. That tells me they are different things.


Ergo, Help is accurate, but your system is not showing all of the menu 
choices for some reason.


SJK

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Re: [discuss] Re: Revision History

[Peter Hillier-Brook]

Randomthots wrote:

G. Roderick Singleton wrote:




Hmm, does File > Versions not fill your requirements?  I think it should
do the job.



This is what I meant about the Help being inaccurate. On OO2, Windows 
version, I have no "Versions" menu item under File. I have "Changes" 
under the Edit menu. Are these the same thing?


File/Versions is certainly there in OOo 2.0 under WinXP: I use it all 
the time. It is greyed out for new files and only becomes operative 
after loading a previously saved file, as would be expected.


Have a closer look under the File menu: Versions appears about half way 
down.


Regards

Peter HB

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[discuss] Re: Revision History

[Randomthots]

G. Roderick Singleton wrote:



Hmm, does File > Versions not fill your requirements?  I think it should
do the job.


This is what I meant about the Help being inaccurate. On OO2, Windows 
version, I have no "Versions" menu item under File. I have "Changes" 
under the Edit menu. Are these the same thing?


--

Rod


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Re: [discuss] Why?

[Henrik Sundberg]

> 2005/11/12, Chad Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> For Pete's sake - OpenOffice.org (the program who's list were on) - opens the
> bloody formats! It reads them, edits them, saves them, creates them. OOo is
> crossplatfrom, so with *JUST* OOo and other OSes, anyone in the world can
> open, read, edit, save, and create MSO files without MS Software.

I hear this over and over. If this was true there would be no problem.
OOo and the others just handles what they've managed to figure out
from the MSO formats (by trial and error I suppose). This is *NOT* the
same thing as being able to handle MSO formats.
Chad could You please present a complete MSO file specification?
/$


2005/11/12, Chad Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On 11/12/05, Roger Markus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Chad - You have sworn that you're not on Microsoft's payroll, so why...
> > *why* are you always in the position of being an attack dog for that
> > illegal
> > company? It's very strange. I guess you're not on their payroll, but you
> > might as well be! As unrelenting PR attacks, your text is great for
> > Microsoft, but as a quest for the truth, what you write is pure nonsense!
> > You should be kicked out of the group!
>
>
> What unrelenting attack? All I've done in the past week is send in links to
> stories with quotes from those stories. Stories that show up in my RSS
> reader from Digg, ZDNet News, Eweek, and The OPen Source Weblog. If I see
> something that mentions - OOo, ODF, or a combination - and a story that
> hasn't already been mentioned on the list - I send it in.
>
> Stories like "A Detailed explaination of the new OOO 2.0 Toolbars". I don't
> know how that qualifies as a "unrelenting PR attack" from Microsoft.
>
> If you are referring to my statements that you don't need *any* Microsoft
> software to use MSO file formats - I don't see how thats an attack. For
> Pete's sake - OpenOffice.org (the program who's list were on) - opens the
> bloody formats! It reads them, edits them, saves them, creates them. OOo is
> crossplatfrom, so with *JUST* OOo and other OSes, anyone in the world can
> open, read, edit, save, and create MSO files without MS Software. I don't
> see how in the world that could be an attack for me saying that. MSO
> compatiblity is one of the main features that makes OOo valuable. Most
> people would never use OOo without that compatiblity. That's not an attack,
> it's a fact. And again, that's if only MSO and OOo supported the format, the
> world could go on using MSO formats and be MS free if they so desired. But
> many, most, actually darn-near all office suites and related software does
> MSO formats. That's not an attack - it's a fact. It's not some misguided
> "dogmatic" search for "Truth" - it's a simply statement of fact. Like the
> sky is blue and water is wet. And it's not an attack. I'm *glad* OOo
> supports MSO formats. It wouldn't be nearly as popular otherwise. I think
> that OOo does a very good job supporting MSO formats. There's no attack
> there.
>
> So, I'm really curious - what attacks have you seen from me lately? I
> realize many have singled me out as evil in the past, and I'm trying to be
> more of a team player. I'm sending what I think are useful, helpful links.
> I'm answering user questions, and I'm being mostly quiet about certain
> subjects that people disagree with me on.
>
> And, if you talking about my one "moron" statement - that was too some
> ignorant troll who was cussing about having sex with bugs, and claiming to
> hate office suites. And since OOo *is* an office suite - I saw *that* as an
> attack on OOo. So, while I might have been feeding a troll with my outburst,
> I hardly think that qualifies as an "attack" on OOo.
>
> --
> - Chad Smith
> http://www.gimpshop.net/
> Because everyone loves free software!
>
>

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Re: [discuss] a more complete office suite

[Mathias Bauer]

Alex Janssen wrote:

> I know this isn't the users list, but, I tried setting up a new database 
> to use the T-bird addressbook on my WinXP system and it came up blank. 
> 
> It did not ask me for the location of the abook. 
> 
> I had moved the tbird files from the default location to 
> /ddd/thunderbird/profiles some time ago.  This did not work on my Linux 
> box either, but the linux files are in their default locations.  OOo DB 
> tells me "SQL Status: S1000 - No Thunderbird Addressbook Directories 
> Exist".   How do I tell it where the real addressbook is?

I also use a non-default directory for my TB profile and OOo didn't have
a problem to find the address book. I don't know how exactly OOo finds
it, sorry.

Did you move the complete profile(s) directory or did you keep the
default profile(s) location and just configured TB to use a different
location for the address book?

Best regards,
Mathias

-- 
Mathias Bauer - OpenOffice.org Application Framework Project Lead
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[discuss] Re: Revision History

[G. Roderick Singleton]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:35:16 -0600, Rigel wrote:

> One thing I noticed missing recently is a revision history for OpenOffice
> documents. This may seem kind of ridiculous, but sometimes people work for
> a long time on some documents, and they may at some point think. ' "OMG! I
> wish I had that back!" *sigh* '...
> 
> Perhaps a Revision History could be one thing to be considered in the
> 3.0version of the software. Not only that, but a person could track their
> own
> progress on a project, and choose to fish out anything pertinent that
> previosly didn't fit, or has changed in relevance.
> 
> Rigel


Hmm, does File > Versions not fill your requirements?  I think it should
do the job.
-- 
Documentation Co-lead
"Dinna meddle wi' things ye ken nuthin' aboot!"
J.H.



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Re: [discuss] Why?

[mark]

Cor Nouws wrote:

Ian Lynch wrote:

On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 21:37 +0900, Roger Markus wrote:


Chad - You have sworn that you're not on Microsoft's payroll, so why...

[...]
he is either a troll or a moron or both. 


I'm not sure. I tend to think he's a little over-active in proving his 
own 'right', thereby not noticing the mess he creates.



He certianly has no understanding of good manners.


I've seen folks like him for over a dozen years - there were a good 
number in some newsgroups. I think it's that they see this toy, and 
other kids playing, and they want to play *so* bad, but they don't 
really have anything to say, and don't really fit in, so they say stuff 
that gets the others' attention. File under "negative attention is 
better than no attention".


mark
--
Bush let them get the Library (and Museum) at Baghdad. They're not
getting mine (without a fight).

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Re: [discuss] Why?

[Chad Smith]

On 11/12/05, Roger Markus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Chad - You have sworn that you're not on Microsoft's payroll, so why...
> *why* are you always in the position of being an attack dog for that
> illegal
> company? It's very strange. I guess you're not on their payroll, but you
> might as well be! As unrelenting PR attacks, your text is great for
> Microsoft, but as a quest for the truth, what you write is pure nonsense!
> You should be kicked out of the group!


What unrelenting attack? All I've done in the past week is send in links to
stories with quotes from those stories. Stories that show up in my RSS
reader from Digg, ZDNet News, Eweek, and The OPen Source Weblog. If I see
something that mentions - OOo, ODF, or a combination - and a story that
hasn't already been mentioned on the list - I send it in.

Stories like "A Detailed explaination of the new OOO 2.0 Toolbars". I don't
know how that qualifies as a "unrelenting PR attack" from Microsoft.

If you are referring to my statements that you don't need *any* Microsoft
software to use MSO file formats - I don't see how thats an attack. For
Pete's sake - OpenOffice.org (the program who's list were on) - opens the
bloody formats! It reads them, edits them, saves them, creates them. OOo is
crossplatfrom, so with *JUST* OOo and other OSes, anyone in the world can
open, read, edit, save, and create MSO files without MS Software. I don't
see how in the world that could be an attack for me saying that. MSO
compatiblity is one of the main features that makes OOo valuable. Most
people would never use OOo without that compatiblity. That's not an attack,
it's a fact. And again, that's if only MSO and OOo supported the format, the
world could go on using MSO formats and be MS free if they so desired. But
many, most, actually darn-near all office suites and related software does
MSO formats. That's not an attack - it's a fact. It's not some misguided
"dogmatic" search for "Truth" - it's a simply statement of fact. Like the
sky is blue and water is wet. And it's not an attack. I'm *glad* OOo
supports MSO formats. It wouldn't be nearly as popular otherwise. I think
that OOo does a very good job supporting MSO formats. There's no attack
there.

So, I'm really curious - what attacks have you seen from me lately? I
realize many have singled me out as evil in the past, and I'm trying to be
more of a team player. I'm sending what I think are useful, helpful links.
I'm answering user questions, and I'm being mostly quiet about certain
subjects that people disagree with me on.

And, if you talking about my one "moron" statement - that was too some
ignorant troll who was cussing about having sex with bugs, and claiming to
hate office suites. And since OOo *is* an office suite - I saw *that* as an
attack on OOo. So, while I might have been feeding a troll with my outburst,
I hardly think that qualifies as an "attack" on OOo.

--
- Chad Smith
http://www.gimpshop.net/
Because everyone loves free software!

Re: [discuss] Revision History

[mark]

Rigel wrote:

One thing I noticed missing recently is a revision history for OpenOffice
documents. This may seem kind of ridiculous, but sometimes people work for a
long time on some documents, and they may at some point think. ' "OMG! I
wish I had that back!" *sigh* '...

Perhaps a Revision History could be one thing to be considered in the


What would be more reasonable would be a plug-in interface to a CM tool, 
such as CVS, or Subversion.


mark
--
If you support Bush, you DON'T support the troops.

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Re: [discuss] Re: [Marketing] Templates

[Alexandro Colorado]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:14:47 -, G. Roderick Singleton  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 04:39 -0500, Rodney wrote:
When you open MS Office, you are presented with a wide range of  
templates and wizzards that make the building of useful pages easy. In  
OO we could use a resume page in writer, financial calculations in  
calc, presentation designs in impress and asset control in Base. The  
more prebuilt templates the easier to use this is and this will  
increase your install base by work of mouth advertising.


Rodney Wise


Wizards are there but templates and such can be found at
http://documentation.openoffice.org/


Here are some other resources:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/it/itaids/publish/027/
and
http://ooextras.sourceforge.net/downloads/english/

There is an innitiative to start an OpenTemplate repository this will be a  
more ambicious project to make a template webservice engine. Interesting  
stuff but still vaporware at this moment.


--
Alexandro Colorado
CoLeader of OpenOffice.org ES
http://es.openoffice.org

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Re: [discuss] Why?

[Cor Nouws]

Ian Lynch wrote:


On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 21:37 +0900, Roger Markus wrote:


Chad - You have sworn that you're not on Microsoft's payroll, so why...

[...]
he is either a troll or a moron or both. 


I'm not sure. I tend to think he's a little over-active in proving his 
own 'right', thereby not noticing the mess he creates.



He certianly has no understanding of good manners.


True (to a certain extend).

Just ignore him, 


Not what I like to do with people, but it's better than getting upset 
myself :-)



Cor


--
--
|  you need it - je hebt het nodig  |
|   |
|  OpenOffice.org   |
|   |
| Cor Nouws, http://www.nouenoff.nl |
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Re: [discuss] Why?

[Ian Lynch]

On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 21:37 +0900, Roger Markus wrote:
> Chad - You have sworn that you're not on Microsoft's payroll, so why...
> *why* are you always in the position of being an attack dog for that illegal
> company? It's very strange. I guess you're not on their payroll, but you
> might as well be! As unrelenting PR attacks, your text is great for
> Microsoft, but as a quest for the truth, what you write is pure nonsense!
> You should be kicked out of the group!

Just ignore him, he is either a troll or a moron or both. He certianly
has no understanding of good manners.

-- 
Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ZMSL


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[discuss] Re: [Marketing] Templates

[G. Roderick Singleton]

On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 04:39 -0500, Rodney wrote:
> When you open MS Office, you are presented with a wide range of templates and 
> wizzards that make the building of useful pages easy. In OO we could use a 
> resume page in writer, financial calculations in calc, presentation designs 
> in impress and asset control in Base. The more prebuilt templates the easier 
> to use this is and this will increase your install base by work of mouth 
> advertising.
> 
> Rodney Wise

Wizards are there but templates and such can be found at
http://documentation.openoffice.org/ 
-- 
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OpenOffice.org Documentation Co-Lead
http://documentation.openoffice.org/ 


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[discuss] Why?

[Roger Markus]

Chad - You have sworn that you're not on Microsoft's payroll, so why...
*why* are you always in the position of being an attack dog for that illegal
company? It's very strange. I guess you're not on their payroll, but you
might as well be! As unrelenting PR attacks, your text is great for
Microsoft, but as a quest for the truth, what you write is pure nonsense!
You should be kicked out of the group!

RM

Re: [discuss] Revision History

[Alexandro Colorado]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 06:35:16 -, Rigel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


One thing I noticed missing recently is a revision history for OpenOffice
documents. This may seem kind of ridiculous, but sometimes people work  
for a

long time on some documents, and they may at some point think. ' "OMG! I
wish I had that back!" *sigh* '...

Perhaps a Revision History could be one thing to be considered in the
3.0version of the software. Not only that, but a person could track
their own
progress on a project, and choose to fish out anything pertinent that
previosly didn't fit, or has changed in relevance.

Rigel


Dont you get that when you use Versioning? I usually do that when I have  
long documents, automating the versioning might be a possibility but the  
issue is usually that the document will blow up in size. If your document  
has multiple images you can end up with very big file size.


--
Alexandro Colorado
CoLeader of OpenOffice.org ES
http://es.openoffice.org

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Re: [discuss] Key-binding macros

[CPHennessy]

On Fri October 28 2005 23:45, + Bob Harvey wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> Hi,
>
> Have just started using OO at v2.0, previously only looked at it, but I'm
> now planning to use it as a replacement for Word, as it seems to have the
> compatibility with Word that I need for my existing clients.
>
> I wanted to make a macro (like the one I have made in Word) to capinitial a
> word, then move to the next word in the text string.  Usually I bind my own
> macros and commands to Alt-, to keep from overwriting an existing
> command.  So I recorded a capinitial macro, OK. Then when I come to keybind
> it, there is a very useful indication of which keys are currently bound to
> commands, but no ability (it seems) to bind to keys other than those
> listed.  Surely there's some mistake?
>

As you are not subscribed you may not have seen that:
On Sun October 30 2005 07:36, Ian Laurenson wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
> You may want to check out the key handler macros at:
> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/hillview/OOo/
>
> Welcome to a fellow Kiwi.

Please reply to discuss@openoffice.org only.

Normally users@openoffice.org is the best list to ask questions about using 
OpenOffice.org

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Re: [discuss] Hallo OpenOffice Team, ich habe ein Vorschlag

[CPHennessy]

On Fri November 11 2005 09:06, + Patrick Michalik wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> Ihr könnst auch "tabs" in OpenOffice integrieren, damit wenn man mehrere
> verschiedene Dokumente gleichzeitig geöffnet hat, schnell zwischen die
> Dokumente wechseln kann.

This list is generally an English only mailing list. If you would like to 
communicate in your own language then please have a look at 
http://de.openoffice.org -> "Mailing list" or email [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Please reply to discuss@openoffice.org only.

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Re: [discuss] Crash report in oocalc

[CPHennessy]

On Fri November 11 2005 01:46, + Bill Mitchell wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> I don't know if this is the appropriate place to send this,  but the
> directions when it crashed said to copy it and send it in, and I
> couldn't find anything around the program or website to indicate where
> bug reports should be sent. (This fact probably should be counted as
> a second bug.   A third bug, in case you are not aware: the program dies
> whenevery I attempt to use "export as xhtml", and has to be killed from
> the commandline.)
>

Hi Bill,
  Did you try the version of OpenOffice.org from http://openoffice.org or are 
you using the version from RedHat ?

Can you please report this in issuezilla ? ( http://openoffice.org -> "My 
Pages" -> "Register", then when you receive a confirmation email, "Login" and 
"File an issue" )
In this way the relevant developers will see your bug report / suggestion and 
you will also see the progress of this feature / bug report if it is 
accepted.

Please reply to discuss@openoffice.org only.

Normally users@openoffice.org is the best list to ask questions about using 
OpenOffice.org

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Re: [discuss] omr

[CPHennessy]

On Wed November 9 2005 23:57, + JinXation wrote:
> i've got an idea that i think would be a very useful addon. when i speak
> about omr, i'm not talking about the standard scantron omr, i'm talking
> about the security marks on printed documents that are used in
> folder/inserters. there are several solutions for these 6 marks on the
> sides of printouts, but the price can easily exceed thousands of dollars.
> it's insane that people would charge the amounts they do for adding the
> maximum of 6 marks on each page printed. anyways, that's my idea. drop me a
> line and let me know what you think. thanks.

It is not very clear what OMR is and what it has to do with OpenOffice.org. 
Please restate your suggestion is a clearer way for others to understand.

Please reply to discuss@openoffice.org only.

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OpenOffice.org

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Re: [discuss] Icons

[CPHennessy]

On Wed November 9 2005 10:00, + Kelvin Davis-Smith wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> Hi Guys.
>
> Got a fun one- when i install OpenOffice 2 on an NT4 workstation it has
> a 70% chance of messing up the icons on the PC - seems to superimpose
> another icon over the standard one - any other icon (eg recycle bin
> icon, Novell Icon, Quake Icon).
> even if get the icons back to normal, next time  you restart it happens
> again.
>
> anyone else come accross this, and are there any fixes available for
> this?

As Mathias stated, NT4 is not officially supported. However you should make 
sure that you have the latest patches for NT4 installed as it is almost 
certainly an operating system issues.

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Re: [discuss] WordStar Keyboard Command Emulator

[CPHennessy]

On Wed November 9 2005 19:43, + Allen Brandes wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] 
> Is there a plug in or a selection for a WordStar Keyboard Command
> Emulator

As you are not subscribed you may not have seen that:
On Thu November 10 2005 08:34, Ian Laurenson wrote:
>
> I started on a macro that would allow WordStar key combinations and even
> set-up some of those combinations.  The macro is not thoroughly tested
> so use with caution.
>
> See KeyHandler available from:
> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/hillview/OOo/

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Re: [discuss] Logotron School Office

[CPHennessy]

On Tue November 8 2005 12:34, + Alan Harris wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> Logotron School Office
>
> http://www.logo.com/cat/view/logotron-school-office.html
>
> Is this officially part of Open Office? Looks like a £29 rip off of
> Open Office, Logotron say that they are only charging for the resources
> that they've created and that they've added a more friendly front end
> to this Open Office and feed back into the project but, they appear to
> be trying to claim all the credit for school office without supplying
> any links to, or acknowledgement of Open Office itself. Also, they only
> supply a windows version.
>
> I use both Open Office and neoOffice for the Mac - neoOffice does
> credit Open Office (same project) whereas school office does not.
>
> Any comments ?

The OOo licence allows for this. There are several other commercial entities 
which do something similar. While it is perfectly legal, it is also quite 
disappointing if those entities offer nothing back to the project e.g. 
templates, bug fixes, QA, donations etc.

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Re: [discuss] newsforge article on SO8: develop excellent softwsre, not mimick Microsoft -- opinions

[CPHennessy]

On Mon November 7 2005 19:09, lars_o_hansen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> what do you think of:
>
> "With each new office suite and word processor release we become more
> concerned that software companies like Sun Microsystems, Corel, and even
> community projects like OpenOffice.org are more interested in competing
> with Microsoft Office than they are in developing excellent software. The
> new features and enhancements in each release are all about doing what Word
> does or mimicking Excel. Why not just worry about adding features and
> improvements
> that users want, rather than play catch-up with Microsoft?
>
> StarOffice 8 leaves us with that catch-up feeling. It is a good office
> suite --
>  better than Microsoft Office for the money, and better technically in many
> ways -- but it's trying too hard to be like the market leader. We'd rather
> see
> an intelligently designed office suite with a fresh approach than one that
> can
> do everything that Microsoft Office can."
>
> http://software.newsforge.com/software/05/09/23/198225.shtml
>
>
> bottom line: add features users want rather than mimick Microsoft

The problems are :
1) Most users want 100% compatability with Word/Excel/PPT
2) I've not seem any other requests that users call for (except the email 
integration) more loudly than 1

Do you have your top 10 of what needs to be added rather than "mimick" ?

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Re: [discuss] Good Ideas for Impress

[CPHennessy]

On Sun November 6 2005 16:01, + Jeremy Brown wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> A good idea for you to have would be a place in your site where people
> can download new slide templaes without having to create them, like
> the PowerPoint templates, but for OpenOffice.

This is indeed being worked on. Are you interested in helping to create some 
interesting templates ?

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Re: [discuss] Re: a more complete office suite

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le vendredi 11 novembre 2005 à 12:21 -0600, Randomthots a écrit :
> mark wrote:

> Think about it: If html-mail is associated with spam -- and I will 
> gladly stipulate that there is a statistical correlation -- and if 1) 
> ISPs filter much of that spam as mine does, and if 2) much of the rest 
> is caught by individual e-mail clients, as mine is, and if 3) most 
> people simply delete what does get through all that, as I do, then
> html-mail is a spectacularly ineffective vector for malware.

Spam never was about effectiveness. Spam always was about
blanket-bombing and massive waste of ressource.

Accepted (by mail admin people) HTML mail will happen when people get
together and write and RFC about the XHTML subset one can sanely use in
mail clients (ie remove all the dangerous elements built-in XHTML). And
then refuse anything except this subset. And it won't ever happen
because :
1. the only interested people are Outlook/Notes/WordMail users
2. Outlook/Notes/WordMail output and process non-standard XHTML and
writing a spec they'd have to respect is the last thing in the minds of
their authors. So even if someone else wrote it they would ignore it.

However since you obviously care about HTML mail I invite you to specify
an XHTML subset that can not be abused, get it supported by outlook, and
come back asking for thunderbird/OO.o support.

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

Re: [discuss] Writer 2.0 suggestion

[CPHennessy]

On Sat November 5 2005 03:20, + B Terramorse wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> I have been trying to use 2.0, and there is a really big hurdle or missing
> feature for me (or is it a bug?):
>
> When using the sliders to change paragraph indents or margins, they do not
> snap to a grid or increment and are therefore impossible to use accurately.
> The only accurate way is to enter values into the dialog boxes. I have
> turned on Grid and Align to Grid in options to no avail.
>
> This is just awful, and I can't imaging committing to the product with the
> ability to snap to some logical increment, such as 1/4 inch, 1/8 inch, 0.1
> inch. Ideally the snap increment would be user-definable, like a CAD
> program. Doing layout, setting up paragraph styles and arranging documents
> is just not possible without it IMHO.
>
> MS Word 2000, where we stopped, does snap to 1/8" increments, and when you
> hold down the ALT key it disables the snap function, the slider moves
> freely and the dimension is graphically shown (like 1.38") - Very nice.
>
> I keep thinking this must be a bug - how could you design a graphics
> program (which most APP's is) without this ability. Can you tell that I am
> an Architect?
>
> Please add in! I'd love to switch, but this is a deal-breaker.

Can you please report this in issuezilla ? ( http://openoffice.org -> "My 
Pages" -> "Register", then when you receive a confirmation email, "Login" and 
"File an issue" )
In this way the relevant developers will see your bug report / suggestion and 
you will also see the progress of this feature / bug report if it is 
accepted.

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Re: [discuss] general input/output error

[CPHennessy]

On Mon October 24 2005 08:58, + [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I get the general input/output error while saving my files in 
> OpenOffice.org 2.0 after a period of having the program open and not saving
> for  a while. I've read the bug fixes discussion board, but i haven't found
> the  solution. Is there a fix avaliable?   Thanks.

As you are not subscribed you may not have seen that:
On Sat October 29 2005 10:00, Terry North wrote:
> You can also fix this problem by using Tools /Macros /Organize Macros
> /OpenOffice. org Basic Macros - click on the "Organizer" button on the
> dialog then the "Libraries" tab, in the "Location" bar select
> "OpenOffice.org Macros & Dialogs", select the old scripts listed in turn
> and delete them.  You should also use the "append" button to list the new
> scripts - in my case they are at opt/ OpenOffice. org 2.0/ share/ basic/

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Re: [discuss] filter data : contains

[CPHennessy]

On Sun October 23 2005 13:10, + claudiorizzoli wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] 
> in the "filter data" option in calc how can i filter data that "contains" a
> certain word or part of word?
>
> I.e. in a spreadsheet i want to filter all lines that contain the word
> "xyz" only
>
> it's an extremely usfull filter option that i'm not able to activate in
> Open Officeis it there somewhere or it's not possible to activate such
> a filtering option?

Hi Claudio,

As you are not subscribed you may not have seen that:
On Sun October 23 2005 23:49, Jonathon Coombes wrote:
>
> Actually, this is available in OpenOffice.org and has been
> for a long time. When you go into your standard filter, click
> on the ">> More" button to get more options. Enable the regular
> expressions and then create a filter based on your word or
> partial word. I have used this before many times.

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Re: [discuss] Wordwrap in Base Forms

[CPHennessy]

On Sun October 23 2005 08:00, + Peter Robertson wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> I am linking to a web based MySQL table.
>
> Forms produced by Open Office up to Ver 1.1.4 word-wrapped in longtext
> fields. The last two versions place all the text on one long line. If I
> use a form from the earlier versions the wrapping is still there but the
> form proves to be unstable when used in conjunction with the current
> version.
>
> Despite reading all the help files that I can find I have been unable to
> turn word-wrap on..

Hi Peter,
 What version of OpenOffice.org are you using ?

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Re: [discuss] How to install documentation missing

[CPHennessy]

On Fri October 21 2005 17:10, + Christoph Herzog wrote:
>  [ MODERATED ] ***
> Hi,
> after having downloaded and unpacked OpenOffice.org for Linux I was
> amazed to find a bag of rpm files but no hint whatsoever on how to
> install. Am I expected to solve a puzzle? Don't you think it would be a
> good idea to put a how-to-install info into the readme folder? Or at
> least put it at some prominent place on your website?

RPMs are a standard way to install packages on most Linux distributions. If 
your linux distruibution does not understand them, then you can use "alien" 
to convert the RPMS to another more palatable form.

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