GNUstep meeting tomorrow... reminder
Hey Guys, The GNUstep monthly meeting is tomorrow: https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw2ONvjmJp88UwdECLoGAHjp> It's from 11:30-1:30pm All are welcome. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: I have a problem installing GNUstep like advised on the GNUstep website
What particular version of Ubuntu are you using? I suspect it's missing
sudo or another command needed to install.
GC
On Wed, Oct 9, 2024 at 1:34 PM lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de <
lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote:
> Hi dear GNUsteppers,
>
>
> today I tried installing GNUstep on a fresh Ubuntu 24.04 copy.
>
>
> For this I used the command found on the GNUstep website:
>
> curl
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gnustep/tools-scripts/master/gnustep-web-install-dev
> | bash
>
>
> However the script failed to read my password, here is the output of the
> script:
>
> lars@Ubuntu-2404-VirtualBox:~$ curl
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gnustep/tools-scripts/master/gnustep-web-install-dev
> | bash
> % Total% Received % Xferd Average Speed TimeTime Time
> Current
> Dload Upload Total SpentLeft
> Speed
> 0 00 00 0 0 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:--
>0Install GNUstep
>
> 100 1863 100 18630 0 5909 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:--
> 5914
> .:;;;;:
> ..:;X@:;X@@S:t8%::.
>.;;88tStX8%88;:
> .:;% @tt%t;;;::;;@8X;;:
> ;:tS;ttt;;::;::;;t; 8SX @8;
>..:;S@S;;t;;;:tX@ X ::
>:;:S::::;:;::;%8 8 .:.
> .;:t .:X :S::;;;:::tS@X8%t
> .;S8S:::.SS:;:;::;:;;%X@.. 8 8:
> :;; 8t %;8.::;;;:888X8 Xt::
> .:;X SS888;;St%. .8:@:
>;.:8 t8%;;::;;tXS . ;8S;
>.:8@ 8t88t@::;%SS . . S :.
> .:S%tt.t88@8.;St%; . @X%;:.
> ...:Xt X%@SXSS% . @ 8:;
> ;.:St;t8t.8t :X%%:. %:S t:
> ::S 8;t:t.;@S S:@@Xt:. .:%8:88t%:
> :XX8@;:;8@:.X:@.;%8 X@t;;tX%%8%.:
> :X8@88 : X:..::;:t@.S:::.:::;:
> ::t@8X;S;.%8;tttSSt;::..:.
> ...:;:Xt.t@;;;::..
> .;tS;::
>
> IMPORTANT!
> You must update your .ssh directory so it contains your github ssh key
>
> Begin setup for linux
> sudo command is already present.
> Adding lars to sudoers...
> Please enter the root user's password.
> Password: su: Authentication failure
> Create gnustep build directories
> bash: line 44: git: command not found
> bash: line 45: ./tools-scripts/clone-essential-repos: No such file or
> directory
> Install Dependencies
> bash: line 49: ./tools-scripts/install-dependencies-linux: No such file or
> directory
> Build
> bash: line 53: ./tools-scripts/build-linux: No such file or directory
> Post Installation
> bash: line 57: ./tools-scripts/post-install-linux: No such file or
> directory
> Done…
>
>
> It looks like the script isn’t waiting for me to enter the password. I had
> a look what is going on and found this script:
>
> setup-linux:
>
> #!/bin/sh
>
> export USER=`whoami`
> if [ ! -e /usr/bin/sudo ]; then
>echo "Installing sudo..."
>if [ -e /usr/bin/apt ]; then
> su -c "apt install sudo"
>else
> su -c "rpm install sudo"
>fi
> else
>echo "sudo command is already present."
> fi
>
> if [ ! -e /etc/sudoers.d/${USER} ]; then
>echo "Adding ${USER} to sudoers..."
>echo "Please enter the root user's password."
>su -c 'echo "${USER}ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL" > /etc/sudoers.d/${USER}'
> else
>echo "${USER} is already a member of sudo users."
> fi
>
>
> In this script I see the line:
>
> echo "Please enter the root user's password.“
>
> followed by su -c which I think needs the password.
>
>
> However, the script isn’t waiting for me to enter the password. I am not
> that of an expert in bash, but shouldn’t be there some sort of „read“ in
> between both commands? Or I am missing something here?
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Lars
>
>
>
--
Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c
https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Please update address in Source/Headers/Licenses
Hey guys, Just something really quick... For those of you who might be unaware... the FSF has moved to being fully remote. The new mailing address is... Free Software Foundation 31 Milk Street #960789 Boston, MA 02196 USA Respective maintainers, please update your files, licenses, etc when you can. Thanks, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Thoughts about the future...
Hey guys, I've been doing some thinking about what Apple's current direction is... before I say anything let me describe the current state of things: 1) They haven't updated macOS significantly (Cocoa specifically) in a few years. I've been keeping track since Catalina 2) Currently you can run UIKit apps on the mac if your mac uses Apple Silicon. 3) They are aggressively phasing out Intel based macs. I am wondering if these facts combined mean that they are thinking about deprecating Cocoa within the next few years and going COMPLETELY to using UIKit as the preferred framework for development. Another thing that goes along with that is the possibly deprecation of ObjC after that. White this seems like a disaster, it might be a good thing for US. Obviously I am not okay with any of the above... I think: 1) We need to add support for macOS to GNUstep so that, in the case that they DO deprecate Cocoa or ObjC (I hope they DO NOT) then the people who use those have someplace to go 2) We need to have a mobile library (UIKit compatible) to accommodate those who might want to bring their applications to other things outside of the stupidity of Apple's walled garden. 3) We need to add support for Swift (most likely by enabling the ObjC extensions already present in the compiler on Linux) As I have been unemployed for 6 months I have had copious time to think about all of this. Thankfully I have something temporary at the moment... but we'll see. Share your thoughts anyone? Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: GNUstep meeting tomorrow -- reminder...
I forgot to mention. It starts at 12:30 Eastern time US. On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 6:40 AM Gregory Casamento wrote: > The monthly meeting is tomorrow... here is the link > > https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw2ONvjmJp88UwdECLoGAHjp> > > All are welcome to attend. Please do so if you are interested we want to > hear your thoughts. :) > > Yours, GC > -- > Gregory Casamento > GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant > http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c > https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
GNUstep meeting tomorrow -- reminder...
The monthly meeting is tomorrow... here is the link https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw2ONvjmJp88UwdECLoGAHjp> All are welcome to attend. Please do so if you are interested we want to hear your thoughts. :) Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: Building a new Objective-C compiler?
on this? > Just FYI, I am CERTAINLY not saying people shouldn't work on this if they are interested. This seems interesting, but it also seems like a HUGE exercise. If people would like to contribute to a compiler I would suggest looking at GCC and determining how we can extend it's support of ObjC2.0+ or adding support for more architectures in libobjc2. As I understand it the difficulty in adding support for architectures is in the objc_msgSend algorithm and exception handling. Just my $0.02. :) Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Mailtrack -- Sorry guys..
I kept forgetting to turn the stupid thing off. My apologies. GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: GNUstep: Specifying a minimum supported compiler version and using C++17 internally
Hugo, As lead I need to preface this with the following... these are my OPINIONS not DECISIONS from my experience with the group. Also, I'm speaking only for myself... On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 8:42 AM Hugo Melder wrote: > Hey, > > I’ve looked into the coding guidelines of libs-base and have not found a > mention of a minimum supported compiler version. > This means there are no real guarantees on the C language version and a > memory model whatsoever. > Starting with C11/C++11 we converged to SC-DRF and now have built-in > atomic operations and overall better guarantees due to codification of a > memory model. > > This would avoid doing UB such as using plain ints for gsrefcount_t > without even issuing a warning ( > https://github.com/gnustep/libs-base/blob/7474bd80e3f4611ad52a2b76e85d39f60ea956dd/Source/NSObject.m#L385 > ). > There are other instances of workarounds and hacks for archaic GCC > versions. Platform-dependent atomic operations for object reference > counting is currently implemented in inline assembly. We should remove the > responsibility of generating correct instructions to the compiler and use > the C11/C++11 atomics instead. > The question about which compiler we should use as a minimum is always a balancing act between supporting older architectures and newer features. It comes down to maintainability. Anything that impacts our ability to improve and maintain the code is where the line need to be drawn. This is why 2.94 was abandoned. First, it was ancient when we abandoned it, but second it posed a maintainability problem since many macros needed it and since there are macros that use variables throughout the codebase (seems like a simple feature, but the older compiler didn't have it). So here we must ask ourselves the very same question. What is it about newer versions of GCC that make it easier for us to maintain the project and does keeping GCC4 as the minimum hurt us? > My proposal is to bump the minimum supported GCC version to GCC 9.x which > is the supported version in RHEL8. When enforcing this minimum version of > GCC, we can focus on writing C17 (GCC 8.x or later). For the > libobjc2-based toolchain, any recent clang version (16 or later) will do. > Background for this is that older clang versions had serious bugs when > targeting MSVC. > > Using C++ in the Codebase > > I am aware that this is a disruptive proposal but I’d really like to see > modern C++ in our codebase. Compared to the more conservative C STL, the > C++ STL is fast and really feature rich. Just take a look at > std::transform, std::reduce, for potentially parallel operations, or the > wrapped pointer objects. It is generally safer to use RAII then to juggle > with bare new and deletes (or mallocs if you will). We can also utilise > some templating to reduce the boilerplate in KVO and other instances when > we need to parameterise a function (KVO because of the type encoding > cases). Who needs Objective-C blocks if we have lambda functions ;) > > Well, here, I think we have a deeper question. The reluctance to use C++ in the codebase is one of simplicity. We didn't use C++ for a while because the handling of exceptions was incompatible. I know it is now when using clang, but I am not sure about the GCC side. So, it was deemed safer to do everything in C and ObjC and keep the mixing of C++ to a minimum. This is another question we need to address and that is whether we feel as though it is now acceptable to using C++/ObjC++ more in the codebase. > As we are only exporting ObjC, this would not impact ABI stability. > > Proper API Deprecation Policy > > Apple deprecated a lot of functions and classes in recent years. Are we > going to do the same? Should we remove them after at least two major > GNUstep releases? > In a word. Nope. :) In general, GNUstep doesn't deprecate methods or classes. This allows a wider range of compatibility. The idea here is that unless it hurts us to keep it, we don't deprecate it. > Make Grand Central Dispatch a first Citizen > > Libdispatch is really great. Apple spent a lot of time and money > refactoring their internal codebase to use libdispatch instead of lower > level pthreads or NSThreads. We should do the same and make libdispatch > mandatory for the Foundation library. This will result in more efficient > resource usage and a better concurrency “model” than what we have now. You > can compile libdispatch without block support and use it with GCC. The only > problem is the absence of a libdispatch package in the Debian and Ubuntu > repositories. > I tend to agree with this, libdispatch is ubiquitous and very useful. We should use it where it's reasonable. NSOperationQueue seems a likely candidate, currently it is implemented using NSThr
Re: GNUstep: Specifying a minimum supported compiler version and using C++17 internally
Hugo, On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 10:14 AM Hugo Melder wrote: > Hey Riccardo, > > Right now GNUstep is currently very portable because it supports "archaic" > GCC. Not just GCC, I mean GCC 4.x and I stand for that. > > > But why GCC 4.x? It was first released in March 10, 2006… > We used to support GCC 2.95.x. The reason we moved to GCC4 was because it had just been released and it supported variadic macros that were needed in libobjc2 and elsewhere in the codebase. This was by NO MEANS a recent decision. :) Nor was it one taken lightly, at the time the number of systems that used GCC2.95.x was dwindling, but many were still around. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: no topLevelObjects in .gorm file?
I fixed this issue and ran your test. Take a look and see if it works for
you.Thanks again for your help.
Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c
https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 06:50 Sebastian Reitenbach <
sebas...@l00-bugdead-prods.de> wrote:
> On Thursday, August 29, 2024 12:11 CEST, "H. Nikolaus Schaller" <
> h...@goldelico.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > applicationDidFinishLaunching is called after loading the app (but not
> after loading documents).
> > To do the same after loading a document you must use an awakeFromNib
> method in your Document class.
> >
> > The reason is as you an see from the log that your characterWindow isn't
> connected yet to the window.
>
> indeed, moving that into the awakeFromNib:
>
> [characterWindow makeKeyAndOrderFront: self];
> NSLog(@"awakeFromNib: the key Window: %@", [[NSApplication
> sharedApplication] keyWindow]);
>
> make the window pop up. Unfortunately also on startup of the application,
> whereas I only want it to be
> around once I either load or create a new document. Something to figure
> out.
>
> When I edit the document to edit the name of the character, I have this:
>
> - (IBAction)nameChanged:(id)sender {
> NSString *newName = [self.name stringValue];
> [self.character setValue:newName forKey:@"name"];
>
> NSLog(@"calling updateChangeCount!!!");
> [self updateChangeCount:NSChangeDone];
> NSLog(@"isDocumentEdited? %i", [super isDocumentEdited]);
> [self checkIfWindowIsKey]; // Check if the window is key
> }
>
> - (void)checkIfWindowIsKey {
> // commented out approach doesn't work only calling my window directly as
> below
> //if ([[self windowForSheet] isKeyWindow]) {
> if ([characterWindow isKeyWindow]) {
> NSLog(@"The document window is the key window.");
> } else {
> NSLog(@"The document window is not the key window.");
> }
> }
>
> creates output:
>
> Character's name changed to: Bula
> calling updateChangeCount!!!
> isDocumentEdited? 1
> The document window is the key window.
>
> However, the save, save as, menu items, they all stay grayed out.
>
> when I override the
> - (BOOL)isDocumentEdited {
> return YES;
> }
>
> then the "save all" menu item is active, and I can save the file. But
> "save", save as... stay gray.
> Somehow, I'm not properly marking the document as "dirty" ?
>
> I guess probably something similarly simple and stupid ;)
>
> thanks,
> Sebastian
>
> >
> > BR,
> > Nikolaus
> >
> > > Am 29.08.2024 um 14:34 schrieb Sebastian Reitenbach <
> sebas...@l00-bugdead-prods.de>:
> > >
> > > Hi Nikolaus,
> > >
> > > On Thursday, August 29, 2024 09:54 CEST, "H. Nikolaus Schaller" <
> h...@goldelico.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >> there may be a completely different approach:
> > >>
> > >> - add an IBOutlet (e.g. called mainWindow) to your NSDocument for
> your NSWindow and connect it.
> > >> - then you get a pointer mainWindow that can be accessed in
> -awakeFromNib; for your makeKeyAndOrderFront:
> > >>
> > >> This avoids scanning the top level objects.
> > >
> > > thank you. That seems to do the trick for the simple test App I
> created. After creating IBOutlet and wiring it up in Gorm, I added the
> following at the end of applicationDidFinishLaunching:
> > >
> > > [mainWindow makeKeyAndOrderFront: self];
> > > NSLog(@"the key Window: %@", [[NSApplication sharedApplication]
> keyWindow]);
> > >
> > > which spits out:
> > > 2024-08-29 11:49:14.793 Test5[72122:2615662661832] the key Window:
> Number: 4 Title: Test5 Window
> > >
> > > However, that same approach doesn't work in my Document based app. I
> read through David's "Cocoa Programming, Developers Handbook", and now I'm
> working with ChatGPT as my mentor here, since never done that before, and
> don't have any Mac programming experience ;)
> > > What I told ChatGPT I want to do: MVC Document based app, that should
> have a central .gorm file for menu and other central stuff, and then .gorm
> files for each of diffe
Liam Proven's Articles and other articles referring to GNUstep as OpenStep
Guys, I have just had yet another exchange about Liam's articles. He insists on referring to GNUstep as a clone of OpenStep and that the "Cocoa name is dead." It is most certainly not dead... as you can see here... https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swift/cocoa-design-patterns Apparently, he doesn't realize that, by referring to us as something we have long progressed past, he is using his platform (either deliberately or unintentionally) to damage the project. This email is not to disparage Liam, but to make the rest of you aware of the situation. If you see an article (not just by Liam) referring to the project as OpenStep, please take a few seconds and, politely, correct the author. Thank you, -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation [image: Mailsuite] Sent with Mailsuite · Unsubscribe <https://mailtrack.io/en/privacy/opt-out/unsubscribe/fa1d6cc85c35c2b4986669be0b22b44d4ccc8da9/361b00abd355d6acd9e09afc873729ef2d7ead6983e7a059907bb60ef0ce6d31732c42617788529ffc5c399251761c55fbfa2b272d90110a78d828716ada0ea6> 08/29/24, 01:41:57 PM
Re: no topLevelObjects in .gorm file?
Hey Sebastian
Excellent catch!! I think I see the bug. I will work on a fix later on
today. It’s a bit early for me here at the moment.
Thanks for the heads up!
Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c
https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 03:38 Sebastian Reitenbach <
sebas...@l00-bugdead-prods.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to create a document based app with ProjectCenter and Gorm,
> following different advices,
> it boils down to use NSBundles loadNibNamed: owner: topLevelObjects:
> Then afterward, find the window in the topLevelObjects, that I want to
> have my key window, and make it makeKeyAndOrderFront:
>
> Whatever I do, the topLevelObjects I get returned are empty.
>
> To demonstrate, I just created a New Application in ProjectCenter, opened
> the Interface in Gorm, and
> dragged a NSWindow into the Objects. Example code here:
> https://github.com/buzzdeee/testTopLevelObjects
>
> Then added this to AppController.m applicationDidFinishLaunching:
>
>NSLog(@"here in AppController applicationDidFinishLaunching...");
>
> NSBundle *mainBundle = [NSBundle mainBundle];
> NSArray *topLevelObjects = nil;
> NSLog(@"going to load .gorm file");
> BOOL success = [mainBundle loadNibNamed:@"Test5" owner:self
> topLevelObjects:&topLevelObjects];
> NSLog(@"topLevelObjects: %@", topLevelObjects);
> if (success) {
> NSLog(@"Successfully loaded Test5.gorm");
>
> if (topLevelObjects == nil || [topLevelObjects count] == 0) {
> NSLog(@"No top-level objects were loaded.");
> } else {
> NSLog(@"Top-level objects: %@", topLevelObjects);
> for (id obj in topLevelObjects) {
> NSLog(@"Loaded object: %@", NSStringFromClass([obj
> class]));
> }
> }
> } else {
> NSLog(@"Failed to load Test5.gorm");
> }
> }
>
> The output is:
> 2024-08-29 09:20:30.103 Test5[81465:10651290713480] here in AppController
> applicationDidFinishLaunching...
> 2024-08-29 09:20:30.104 Test5[81465:10651290713480] going to load .gorm
> file
> 2024-08-29 09:20:30.113 Test5[81465:10651290713480] topLevelObjects: (null)
> 2024-08-29 09:20:30.113 Test5[81465:10651290713480] Successfully loaded
> Test5.gorm
> 2024-08-29 09:20:30.113 Test5[81465:10651290713480] No top-level objects
> were loaded.
>
> When in Gorm, I enable "Visible at launch" for the NSWindow object, output
> changes to:
>
> 2024-08-29 09:13:57.990 Test5[1172:4346915151048] here in AppController
> applicationDidFinishLaunching...
> 2024-08-29 09:13:57.990 Test5[1172:4346915151048] going to load .gorm file
> 2024-08-29 09:13:57.998 Test5[1172:4346915151048] Exception occurred while
> loading model: Index 3 is out of range 3 (in 'objectAtIndex:')
> 2024-08-29 09:13:57.998 Test5[1172:4346915151048] Failed to load Gorm
> 2024-08-29 09:13:57.998 Test5[1172:4346915151048] topLevelObjects: (null)
> 2024-08-29 09:13:57.998 Test5[1172:4346915151048] Failed to load Test5.gorm
>
> However, the .gorm file still loads, and I get to see the menu and window.
> But I guess that is because, NSMainNibFile = "Test5.gorm"; in my Info.plist.
>
> In any case, shouldn't there be some topLevelObjects in the .gorm file?
>
> latest gnustep-make/base/gui/back/objc2/ProjectCenter releases, Gorm-1.3.1
>
> thanks,
> Sebastian
>
>
>
Updated invitation: GNUstep Quarterly Meeting #2 @ Every 2 months from 12:30pm to 1:30pm on the second Saturday from Sat Feb 11, 2023 to Fri Aug 9 (EST) (discuss-gnustep@gnu.org)
BEGIN:VCALENDAR PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN VERSION:2.0 CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:REQUEST BEGIN:VTIMEZONE TZID:America/New_York X-LIC-LOCATION:America/New_York BEGIN:DAYLIGHT TZOFFSETFROM:-0500 TZOFFSETTO:-0400 TZNAME:EDT DTSTART:19700308T02 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYMONTH=3;BYDAY=2SU END:DAYLIGHT BEGIN:STANDARD TZOFFSETFROM:-0400 TZOFFSETTO:-0500 TZNAME:EST DTSTART:19701101T02 RRULE:FREQ=YEARLY;BYMONTH=11;BYDAY=1SU END:STANDARD END:VTIMEZONE BEGIN:VEVENT DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20230211T123000 DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20230211T133000 RRULE:FREQ=MONTHLY;UNTIL=20230408T035959Z;INTERVAL=2;BYDAY=2SA DTSTAMP:20240811T162033Z ORGANIZER;CN=Gregory Casamento:mailto:greg.casame...@gmail.com UID:hdkhe33n4hcfso1j218q3q7...@google.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=fredkie...@gmx.de;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:fredkie...@gmx.de ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=h...@goldelico.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:h...@goldelico.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=discuss-gnustep@gnu.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:discuss-gnustep@gnu.o rg ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=frede...@algoriddim.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:frederik@algoriddim.c om ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=ACCEPTED;RSVP=TRUE ;CN=riccardo.mott...@libero.it;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:riccardo.mottola@liber o.it ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=Riccardo Mottola;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:mul...@gmail.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=ape...@alexperez.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:ape...@alexperez.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=ste...@stevenrbaker.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:steven@stevenrbaker.c om ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=h...@computer.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:h...@computer.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=nicola.p...@brainstorm.co.uk;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:nicola.pero@brai nstorm.co.uk ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=fe...@gnu.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:fe...@gnu.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=ACCEPTED;RSVP=TRUE ;CN=Gregory Casamento;X-NUM-GUESTS=0;X-RESPONSE-COMMENT="I'\;m actually on right now if anyone feels like joining.":mailto:greg.casame...@gmail.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=r...@gnu.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:r...@gnu.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=r...@gnu.org;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:r...@gnu.org ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=iaml...@gmail.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:iaml...@gmail.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=rjack...@outlook.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:rjack...@outlook.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=lcamp...@akamai.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:lcamp...@akamai.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=i...@vucica.net;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:i...@vucica.net ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=David Vernon;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:david.ver...@keysight.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:ivuc...@gmail.com ATTENDEE;CUTYPE=INDIVIDUAL;ROLE=REQ-PARTICIPANT;PARTSTAT=NEEDS-ACTION;RSVP= TRUE;CN=stefanb...@gmail.com;X-NUM-GUESTS=0:mailto:stefanb...@gmail.com X-MICROSOFT-CDO-OWNERAPPTID:-1208648313 CREATED:20210824T103028Z DESCRIPTION:I am planning on having these in the middle of every quarter. I realize most people are in Europe\, so I am going to make this at a time that I believe is convenient for most people.We have two months to go for this so\, if you would like to suggest a time please do so here on goog le calendar.Ultimately I would like to move to an open-source/free software solution for scheduling as well\, but for right now Google Calenda r will need to do.Please note\, I would very much like this meeting to be recorded so that we can learn the most from the experience.T his instance of the event has been rescheduled due to FOSDEM. :) I hope eve ryone has a great time in Brussels. I really wish I could join you guys. < br>Yours always\, GCClick the following link to join the me eting from your computer: https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitie sFormulateNotably">https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotabl y=Just want to dial in on your phon
Re: Invitation: GNUstep Quarterly Meeting #2 @ Every 3 months from 12:30pm to 2:30pm on the first Saturday 4 times (EDT) (Gregory Casamento)
Richard, Please go ahead and cancel this. I am going to modify the scheduling for the original meeting. GC On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 2:42 PM Richard Frith-Macdonald < richardfrithmacdon...@gmail.com> wrote: > GNUstep Quarterly Meeting #2 > I am planning on having these in the middle of every quarter. I realize > most people are in Europe, so I am going to make this at a time that I > believe is convenient for most people. We have two m > > I am planning on having these in the middle of every quarter. I realize > most people are in Europe, so I am going to make this at a time that I > believe is convenient for most people. We have two months to go for this > so, if you would like to suggest a time please do so here on google > calendar. > > Ultimately I would like to move to an open-source/free software solution > for scheduling as well, but for right now Google Calendar will need to do. > > Please note, I would very much like this meeting to be recorded so that we > can learn the most from the experience. > > Yours always, GC > > > Click the following link to join the meeting from your computer: > https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw1I_GQZ58JT4zCl49eA7HrQ> > > = > > Just want to dial in on your phone? > > Call one of the following numbers: > Australia: +61.8.7150.1136 > Brazil: +55.21.3500.0112 > Canada: +1.437.538.3987 > France: +33.1.87.21.0005 > Japan: +81.3.4510.2372 > Netherlands: +31.85.208.1541 > Spain: +34.932.205.409 > Switzerland: +41.61.588.0496 > UK: +44.203.885.2179 > US: +1.512.647.1431 > > Dial your meeting ID: '4036948717' and you will be connected! > WhenEvery 3 months from 12:30pm to 2:30pm on the first Saturday 4 times > (Eastern Time - New York) > LocationJitsi Meeting - > https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably > View map > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Jitsi+Meeting+-+https:%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably?hl=en> > Guests > Richard Frith-Macdonald - organizer > frede...@algoriddim.com > h...@computer.org > fredkie...@gmx.de > iaml...@gmail.com > mul...@gmail.com > nicola.p...@brainstorm.co.uk > Gregory Casamento > ste...@stevenrbaker.com > rich...@frithmacdonald.me.uk > h...@goldelico.com > discuss-gnustep@gnu.org > riccardo.mott...@libero.it > ape...@alexperez.com > fe...@gnu.org > r...@gnu.org > r...@gnu.org > View all guest info > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > RSVP for greg.casame...@gmail.com for all events in this series > Yes > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&rst=1&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > No > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&rst=2&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > Maybe > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&rst=3&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > More options > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > > Invitation from Google Calendar <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/> > > You are receiving this email because you are subscribed to calendar > notifications. To stop receiving these emails, go to Calendar settings > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/r/settings>, select this calendar, > and change "Other notifications". > > Forwarding this invitation could allow any reci
Re: Topics for discussion at the meeting tomorrow...
Sounds good to me! On Sat, Aug 10, 2024 at 11:26 AM Joseph Maloney wrote: > If time permits I would like to discuss some changes I would like to make > in tools-scripts for FreeBSD support to make it more in line with what > tools-scripts does for Linux. > > Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email. > > On Saturday, August 10th, 2024 at 7:02 AM, Damianos Sidiropoulos < > damianos.bouzo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'd like to suggest that these meetings happen more often. I think monthly > would be a good cadence. > I think it would be good for community building. Being able to see faces > and speak to each other in real time is great for building rapport. > It's also a great opportunity for everybody to get updated on what > progress has been made with various GNUstep goals. > > Damian > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2024 at 3:02 PM Gregory Casamento > wrote: > >> Guys, >> >> Some topics to consider for tomorrow's meeting: >> >> GNUstep meeting TOPICS: 1. How does everyone feel about modernizing the >> website? 1. HTML or Markdown (generated via autogsdoc) 2. Developer >> centric? 2. How does everyone feel about meeting once a month instead of >> every two months 1. This might make it easier for people to attend 2. It >> would provide a clearer way of giving feedback to the entire group >> >> Please remember, the meeting is here... >> >> https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably >> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw1I_GQZ58JT4zCl49eA7HrQ> >> >> Tomorrow at 12:30-2:30PM EST (US) that's GMT-4, I believe. >> >> See you all then. Remember... anyone who wishes to attend can come >> GC >> -- >> Gregory Casamento >> GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant >> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com >> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron >> https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c >> https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation >> >> [image: Mailsuite] Sent with Mailsuite · Unsubscribe >> <https://mailtrack.io/en/privacy/opt-out/unsubscribe/ddcdb26f7aa35d81857b432abde49b0fcae783b7/361b00abd355d6acd9e09afc873729ef2d7ead6983e7a059907bb60ef0ce6d31732c42617788529ffc5c399251761c55fbfa2b272d90110a78d828716ada0ea6> >> 08/09/24, 02:58:27 PM >> > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Topics for discussion at the meeting tomorrow...
Guys, Some topics to consider for tomorrow's meeting: GNUstep meeting TOPICS: 1. How does everyone feel about modernizing the website? 1. HTML or Markdown (generated via autogsdoc) 2. Developer centric? 2. How does everyone feel about meeting once a month instead of every two months 1. This might make it easier for people to attend 2. It would provide a clearer way of giving feedback to the entire group Please remember, the meeting is here... https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw1I_GQZ58JT4zCl49eA7HrQ> Tomorrow at 12:30-2:30PM EST (US) that's GMT-4, I believe. See you all then. Remember... anyone who wishes to attend can come GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation [image: Mailsuite] Sent with Mailsuite · Unsubscribe <https://mailtrack.io/en/privacy/opt-out/unsubscribe/ddcdb26f7aa35d81857b432abde49b0fcae783b7/361b00abd355d6acd9e09afc873729ef2d7ead6983e7a059907bb60ef0ce6d31732c42617788529ffc5c399251761c55fbfa2b272d90110a78d828716ada0ea6> 08/09/24, 02:58:27 PM
Re: Had a discussion about GNUstep on the heise.de Forums today
I personally think this is just one poster to that forum expressing his ignorance. Just saying. I’m not sure we can judge all of the developers in Germany based on this one opinion. I think this strengthens the case for improving how we present ourselves. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation On Sun, Aug 4, 2024 at 17:03 Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi Lars, > > > lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de wrote: > > This is interesting on how GNUstep is perceived in the german IT-Scene. > Read the follow ups! > > > > > https://www-heise-de.translate.goog/forum/heise-online/Kommentare/Neues-Fellowship-Programm-fuer-die-Foerderung-von-Open-Source-Projekten-gestartet/Re-Danke-fuer-die-Meldung/posting-44278890/show/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp > > > > I can just say this is quite sad, not for us, but for the low-level of > the german IT-Scene. Depressing. Italy is not such dfferent and I just > explains why these counties, Europe extended, have so little > significance in the IT World and with FOSS more specifically. > > Zeitverschwendung to discuss with those. > > -R > >
Re: Invitation: GNUstep Quarterly Meeting #2 @ Every 3 months from 12:30pm to 2:30pm on the first Saturday 4 times (EDT) (Gregory Casamento)
Richard, Thank you for rescheduling this. I apologize I didn’t realize the existing invitation had expired. I’m grateful you rescheduled it for all of us. I look forward to seeing all of you soon. Yours, Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 14:42 Richard Frith-Macdonald < richardfrithmacdon...@gmail.com> wrote: > GNUstep Quarterly Meeting #2 > I am planning on having these in the middle of every quarter. I realize > most people are in Europe, so I am going to make this at a time that I > believe is convenient for most people. We have two m > > I am planning on having these in the middle of every quarter. I realize > most people are in Europe, so I am going to make this at a time that I > believe is convenient for most people. We have two months to go for this > so, if you would like to suggest a time please do so here on google > calendar. > > Ultimately I would like to move to an open-source/free software solution > for scheduling as well, but for right now Google Calendar will need to do. > > Please note, I would very much like this meeting to be recorded so that we > can learn the most from the experience. > > Yours always, GC > > > Click the following link to join the meeting from your computer: > https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw1I_GQZ58JT4zCl49eA7HrQ> > > = > > Just want to dial in on your phone? > > Call one of the following numbers: > Australia: +61.8.7150.1136 > Brazil: +55.21.3500.0112 > Canada: +1.437.538.3987 > France: +33.1.87.21.0005 > Japan: +81.3.4510.2372 > Netherlands: +31.85.208.1541 > Spain: +34.932.205.409 > Switzerland: +41.61.588.0496 > UK: +44.203.885.2179 > US: +1.512.647.1431 > > Dial your meeting ID: '4036948717' and you will be connected! > WhenEvery 3 months from 12:30pm to 2:30pm on the first Saturday 4 times > (Eastern Time - New York) > LocationJitsi Meeting - > https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably > View map > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Jitsi+Meeting+-+https:%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably?hl=en> > Guests > Richard Frith-Macdonald - organizer > frede...@algoriddim.com > h...@computer.org > fredkie...@gmx.de > iaml...@gmail.com > mul...@gmail.com > nicola.p...@brainstorm.co.uk > Gregory Casamento > ste...@stevenrbaker.com > rich...@frithmacdonald.me.uk > h...@goldelico.com > discuss-gnustep@gnu.org > riccardo.mott...@libero.it > ape...@alexperez.com > fe...@gnu.org > r...@gnu.org > r...@gnu.org > View all guest info > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > RSVP for greg.casame...@gmail.com for all events in this series > Yes > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&rst=1&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > No > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&rst=2&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > Maybe > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=RESPOND&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&rst=3&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > More options > <https://calendar.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=YzlpbTJlOW82Z3IzOGJiNDY1Z202YjlrYzhwbThiOW9jZGhqaWJiNjZoajNjZTMzNzRwMzJkcG82YyBncmVnLmNhc2FtZW50b0Bt&tok=MzEjcmljaGFyZGZyaXRobWFjZG9uYWxkQGdtYWlsLmNvbWYzOGZiNzUwNjUzNzQ1ZjYwY2NkOWY2Nzk5OGEyYmUyMzdjYjA0NDQ&ctz=America%2FNew_York&hl=en&es=1> > > Invitation from
Re: Paid Fellowship for Open Source Project Maintainers
Lars, It looks like applying is not open until september, I will apply then. In the meantime I will revise my application for the project funding. It seems I missed some of their criteria on the first go, so I will try again. GC On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 12:37 PM lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de < lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: > Hi Greg, > > it is an initiative funded by the german government. They already > sponsored GNOME with one million Euros, so be sure to have a great > application! > > : ) > > > kind regards, > > Lars > > Am 03.08.2024 um 18:31 schrieb Gregory Casamento >: > > No, I didn't apply for this one. Thank you for the information, I'll > look into it! :) > > On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 11:30 AM lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de < > lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: > >> Hi Ethan, >> >> >> are you sure he’s already applying to this one? >> >> >> Because it says on their website ( >> https://www.sovereigntechfund.de/programs/fellowship#timeline-and-outlook >> ): >> >> Timeline and Outlook >> >> The application phase will start by the end of the third quarter of 2024, >> and with the goal that selected maintainers can begin the fellowship in the >> fourth quarter. The first fellowship pilot will run throughout 2025, and we >> will evaluate it on an ongoing basis. Based on these evaluations, our >> experiences running the fellowship, and feedback from participants, we’ll >> determine how to expand and grow the program for a stronger and healthier >> open source ecosystem. >> >> In particular, we’re aware that the different fellowship options — >> necessary to accommodate maintainers’ particular situations — will need to >> be evaluated differently. With the support of an external evaluator and >> researcher, we’ll be able to better understand the impact and success of >> the different approaches. >> >> We look forward to sharing the results and hope they’ll inform future >> endeavors in this area. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Lars >> >> Am 03.08.2024 um 16:27 schrieb Ethan C : >> >> Hi, I think Gregory is already applying to this programme. >> >> On Sat, Aug 3, 2024, 09:21 lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de < >> lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: >> >>> Hi there, >>> >>> >>> this is no spam, on heise.de a german IT-news portal I found this >>> article (Google translated): >>> >>> >>> https://www-heise-de.translate.goog/news/Neues-Fellowship-Programm-fuer-die-Foerderung-von-Open-Source-Projekten-gestartet-9822953.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp >>> >>> which contains this link to the fund: >>> >>> https://www.sovereigntechfund.de/programs/fellowship >>> >>> >>> Greg, I guess this is your chance! >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Lars >>> >> >> > > -- > Gregory Casamento > GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant > http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c > https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation > > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: Paid Fellowship for Open Source Project Maintainers
No, I didn't apply for this one. Thank you for the information, I'll look into it! :) On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 11:30 AM lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de < lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: > Hi Ethan, > > > are you sure he’s already applying to this one? > > > Because it says on their website ( > https://www.sovereigntechfund.de/programs/fellowship#timeline-and-outlook > ): > > Timeline and Outlook > > The application phase will start by the end of the third quarter of 2024, > and with the goal that selected maintainers can begin the fellowship in the > fourth quarter. The first fellowship pilot will run throughout 2025, and we > will evaluate it on an ongoing basis. Based on these evaluations, our > experiences running the fellowship, and feedback from participants, we’ll > determine how to expand and grow the program for a stronger and healthier > open source ecosystem. > > In particular, we’re aware that the different fellowship options — > necessary to accommodate maintainers’ particular situations — will need to > be evaluated differently. With the support of an external evaluator and > researcher, we’ll be able to better understand the impact and success of > the different approaches. > > We look forward to sharing the results and hope they’ll inform future > endeavors in this area. > > > Kind regards, > > Lars > > Am 03.08.2024 um 16:27 schrieb Ethan C : > > Hi, I think Gregory is already applying to this programme. > > On Sat, Aug 3, 2024, 09:21 lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de < > lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> >> this is no spam, on heise.de a german IT-news portal I found this >> article (Google translated): >> >> >> https://www-heise-de.translate.goog/news/Neues-Fellowship-Programm-fuer-die-Foerderung-von-Open-Source-Projekten-gestartet-9822953.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp >> >> which contains this link to the fund: >> >> https://www.sovereigntechfund.de/programs/fellowship >> >> >> Greg, I guess this is your chance! >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Lars >> > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: "Wayland Maker - A Wayland compositor inspired by Window Maker"
Yavor, Thank you. Your quote of Matthew 20:16 is always how I have felt about GNUstep. As long as someone is pushing it forward and as long as we have people who love it we stand a chance. I am not religious (in fact I'm an atheist) but I was brought up Roman Catholic. Yours, GC On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 4:28 PM Yavor Doganov wrote: > Liam Proven wrote: > > On 25/07/2024 2:37 pm, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > > The FSF planned on using GNUstep as it's MAIN development and > > > desktop environment, but when GNOME was introduced it stole our > > > thunder. :) Long story which I won't get into here... but Miguel De > > > Icaza was once a member of GS. I'll leave it there. > > > > Remarkable! Really? When? > > In the 90's. Miguel de Icaza and Federico Mena-Quintero volunteered > for the GNU project, specifically for desktop develepment. They were > directed to the GNUstep project, which at that time was chosen by rms > to be the basis of a future GNU desktop. > > After a few months of work (I'm not sure their commits are still > publicly available somewhere, the repository back then was private and > Adam Fedor, former GNUstep project leader and also FSF secretary, made > some of them on their behalf, IIRC) they persuaded rms that GNUstep is > a dead end and it will take an eternity to produce a desktop, so they > revealed their plans for a new desktop environment based on GIMP's > toolkit which would become GTK. > > Miguel managed to persuade rms that it's better to start from scratch > and build our own (GNU) toolkit that was not based on Sun's and/or > Apple's technologies. rms found the idea compelling, furthermore the > FSF (a relevantly young oranization then) was unproven in court > battles. This was a right decision at that time. I find it ironic > that early GNOME architecture copied (reimplemented) so much stuff > from Microsoft (all of bonobo, a CORBA replacement, and not only > that). I'm sure rms knew nothing about these technical details, he > believed Miguel and Federico were designing something unuque. > > I don't know how Miguel's Mono project is going. These are the > buggiest packages in Debian, so I guess not so well. rms openly calls > him a "traitor" (he really is) and regrets that he's given him so much > trust. He also doesn't like the direction GNOME is heading to. > > rms still has a soft spot for GNUstep. Some of the readers of this > list may remember that for a number of years there was a plea on > gnu.org's homepage that the GNUstep project needs developers and > testers. I initiated this and rms immediately agreed; unfortunately > it didn't have any positive effect. > > rms also believes (as do I) that the GNUstep project has immense > potential and as long as there are people envolved in its development, > and people tinkering, something great may come of it. It is possible > that the Last may become First and the First become Last, as written > once by a guy known as Matthew. > > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: "Wayland Maker - A Wayland compositor inspired by Window Maker"
Liam On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 9:42 AM Liam Proven wrote: > Your formatted-text email makes it a bit hard to pick out quotes. I hope > I didn't miss any. > > > On 25/07/2024 2:37 pm, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > > I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't in the greatest of moods > > yesterday at all. I apologize if I came off as abrasive. > > No problem. It was justified, in context. > As lead I try to do so by example. It wasn't the best example of how to deal with a different point of view. > > If that's so it's best not to make assertions based on assumptions about > > where this project is going. We have had a wayland backend for about 3 > > years. Granted it was never posted under news because it is still > > being worked on. One thing I can tell you from my own experience is > > that announcing something too soon can sometimes be detrimental as > > people will try it and immediately get turned off. > > Fair points. Conceded. > In the future ask... we are a welcoming bunch. :). You could also come to the bi-monthly meetings. You would see that there is plenty going on. I will send out the link in another email to the group soon as we have a meeting coming up in August. You and anyone who wants to attend is welcome. > > There are only about 6-8 active developers right now. This is not > > counting the people at Algoriddim or Keysight who do occasionally submit > > PRs. It's difficult to know when, also, to put someone else's work up > > as news as they may not be ready for it to be reviewed. In other > > words... we are vastly under manned. :) > > Everybody is, unless they work on RHEL or Ubuntu. > GNOME... and their Foundation? And their 1.5million EURO donation from the STF, are they undermanned? > > Very true. If you have noticed, things are a bit weird here in the > > states on that spectrum, but we won't discuss that here. I should keep > > the politics out of the mix. I have questions about using X/Twitter in > > generate since was bought because it doesn't seem that people are really > > listening there anymore. > > Yup. I agree with Lars: switch to Mastodon, and maybe just use > Buffer.app (a free account will do, it's all I have) to schedule posts > to both. > Not a bad idea... X/Twitter (will never just call it X) is very political these days. Many developers are leaving it, so I don't think it provides a platform that's good for the project. > I had one post that was a little bit harsh against a recent client due > > to their misunderstanding of "Free Software" as the person who ran the > > company thought that because I was their "liaison" to GNUstep that the > > work done on GNUstep on their behalf was free. That's why that one was > > missing. > > OK. Then maybe delete the tweet as well? > Ah, yes, I will. > > You mean calling Probono out for what he actually did? > > Not just that. The whole paragraph and the dismissive comments about > overlapping projects, Ricardo's about Cocotron, and so on. > It was only meant to be dismissive about HelloSystem. Cocotron has not seen a significant number of commits in over 8 years and the projects using it have not updated the code written by the original project in a meaningful way. My assessment of cocotron's status (the class I pasted was only ONE example of unimplemented code) is based on my observations of that project. As they were once a competitor I kept an eye on what they were doing. My conclusions are not based on any sort of bias or being dismissive. The are fact. HelloSystem is not a competitor because it seeks to recreate the look of macOS, not the development environment. It does a good job at this and people looking for a macOS like environment may be happy there. RavynOS does seek to be macOS compatible on both the OS level and the API level as, from looking at their repo, I can see that they have made changes to the BSD layer relating to Mach-like calls. But it is also not a competitor because it doesn't seek to offer the APIs on a multitude of platforms, only it's own. Additionally, RavynOS uses the older Cocotron codebase which, as I said above, has not been updated in nearly a decade. These assessments are not dismissive, but based on fact. I am still keeping a close eye on RavynOS. Indeed, I have told the creator of the project that if she needs help enhancing the existing APIs that she can use GNUstep's implementations so long as she gives proper credit and doesn't strip copyright headers or licensing. Just as an aside, I still do and always have had doubts with respect to the originality of Cocotrons code. I watched their forums
Re: Decision and Action List - Web Site and Marketing improvements
review or "slated for removal". > Also there are some administrative issues, I'll contact you and Ivan > privately about that. > > > > 5) update and "describe" the library presentation (after 1) for obvious > > > > reasons shown here: > > https://www.gnustep.org/developers/map.html > > > > > > I think that map still makes a lot of sense. Is there a way we can > > generate some of this information as part of the documentation? > > Not that I know, that content is more a "presentation" of the > architecture, not intrinsic in the classes. > That is exactly the kind of content we miss and need to enrich. > The map still makes a lot of sense, but do you agree that with some text > it would make it even more? With some text and references it would be a > great guide for developers. > > Oh, sure. With more text and references, it would be very nice. > > > 7) Work with Richard on links to "unframe" frames of Reference > > documentation and study a way to navigate it within the site. Just a > > first step to clean this up. > > > > > > One thing that might be interesting here is to make it possible for > > autogsdoc to generate something other than HTML or to make it possible > > for it to avoid using some of the older tags which are not addressable > > by CSS. > > I think we should have a work chain to generate a a PDF, so some people > can just download it and move around. Often more convenient. > A lot of ideas which are on my discussion plan with Richard, but major > work was done to actually generate correct pages (again!). > Given that the tool outputs XML and then that XML is translated to HTML, we can use an XSLT transform to create any output format we like. I still think we need to FIX the HTML that is in there. We need to get rid of , , and a few other deprecated tags that can't be addressed by CSS and make it impossible to improve the look of the documentation. The existing documentation is not consistent with the look of our website and so it stands out like a sore thumb. At the same time I think we can make it possible for older browsers to handle it so long as we find a decent set of tags that newer browsers support and that older browsers can use. With this we can parse it into anything we want. :) > My attempts to style CSS failed miserably, I know others had more > success. I don't want to encumber offline versions, there are many pain > points in something apparently simple. > Not your fault. It's the HTML that is generated. > But one is: there are a lot of methods without description... so instead > of thinking of a "classy presentation" we should think also about the > content. > We seriously need to think about BOTH, ideally. :) > Riccardo > Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: On Twitter (was: Re: "Wayland Maker - A Wayland compositor inspired by Window Maker")
Lars, On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 10:35 AM lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de < lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: > Hi Greg, > > Am 25.07.2024 um 15:37 schrieb Gregory Casamento >: > > > >> You have a Twitter feed, but you mostly post US politics stuff. As it >> happens I agree with your sentiments on that, but I am not American and >> it's not my argument. Not my circus, not my monkey, as they say in >> Polish. You might alienate people with the political stuff. > > > Very true. If you have noticed, things are a bit weird here in the states > on that spectrum, but we won't discuss that here. I should keep the > politics out of the mix. I have questions about using X/Twitter in > generate since was bought because it doesn't seem that people are really > listening there anymore. > > >> I suggest >> that you don't and split your presence there into a personal account and >> a GNUstep account. >> > > I have considered doing that, but the account is better known as a source > for GNUstep related information. I will start posting more of that. > > > I know you have this @gnustep Twitter handle: https://x.com/gnustep . Why > not starting using this for GNUstep related tweets? I know, you say, it is > not well known, but this will change soon after you start using it for that > purpose. So you can keep using your @bheron / https://x.com/bheron handle > for your political issues while not interfering with GNUstep related news. > Also, you could announce this change on your @bheron handle to point your > GNUstep-interested followers to the @gnustep handle. > > Just an idea. > > Kind regards, > > Lars > I agree with this. Originally that was my goal, but I have a decent number of followers on X as bheron. I am concerned that if I post on the @gnustep account, I'll be talking in an empty room. :) -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: "Wayland Maker - A Wayland compositor inspired by Window Maker"
Liam, One more thing to absolutely DRIVE the point home here... On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 9:37 AM Gregory Casamento wrote: > > This is utter BS and you know it, Liam. >> >> https://www.apple.com/us/search/cocoa?src=globalnav >> >> Note: the programming API is not there. >> > > You're delusional. Also, it doesn't matter what THEY call it. Whatever > Apple calls it doesn't matter. They referred to it as Cocoa, it's still > under the Cocoa.h header on macOS. And many programmers refer to it as > Cocoa. A rose by any other name... call it "The macOS frameworks" or "The > macOS development environment." Quit the stupidity... PLEASE. > [heron@nomad Frameworks] % cd Cocoa.framework [0] [heron@nomad Cocoa.framework] % ls -ltr [0] total 0 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 26 May 14 09:56 Cocoa.tbd -> Versions/Current/Cocoa.tbd lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 24 May 14 09:56 Headers -> Versions/Current/Headers lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 24 May 14 09:56 Modules -> Versions/Current/Modules drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 128 May 14 10:08 Versions [heron@nomad Cocoa.framework] % pwd [0] /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework [heron@nomad Cocoa.framework] % That's from my Mac running the LATEST version of macOS with the LATEST version of Xcode. Until the name here changes to something other than Cocoa, it is the COCOA framework. This framework is ACTIVELY used and linked against both for ObjC and Swift based macOS projects. Leave the developer stuff to the DEVELOPERS. Pretty please. :) Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: "Wayland Maker - A Wayland compositor inspired by Window Maker"
On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 9:37 AM Gregory Casamento wrote: (SNIP) Sorry, I didn't finish this thought > Hellosystem, while interesting on some levels, is no competitor to GNUstep > because > According to HelloSystem's website they mainly use Python and Qt. The idea behind the project is to LOOK like macOS and not much else. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: "Wayland Maker - A Wayland compositor inspired by Window Maker"
Liam, On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 8:30 AM Liam Proven wrote: > > > On 22/07/2024 4:08 pm, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > Liam, > > > > Really not in the mood this morning, but here goes... > > Fair. I really should not have posted when I was in a negative mood myself. > I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't in the greatest of moods yesterday at all. I apologize if I came off as abrasive. > > As evidence for #3 below, you should be aware that GNUstep currently has > > a wayland capable backend. It is still in development, but it is there. > > Good. Great. > > > > No one in this project is in denial. It only seems so because you > > > > 1) Have contributed ABSOLUTELY NO code. > > I am not a programmer. > I understand. > > 2) Post only when you have something negative to say > > No, I generally come seeking info. > If that's so it's best not to make assertions based on assumptions about where this project is going. We have had a wayland backend for about 3 years. Granted it was never posted under news because it is still being worked on. One thing I can tell you from my own experience is that announcing something too soon can sometimes be detrimental as people will try it and immediately get turned off. > 3) Don't seem to keep abreast of the changes on the project as evidenced > > by the lack of information in some of your posts. > > Could be. If it isn't on this list, I probably don't know about it. > AFAICS there's no "news" or "updates" section on gnustep.org. There is > no official blog, AFAIK. > There are only about 6-8 active developers right now. This is not counting the people at Algoriddim or Keysight who do occasionally submit PRs. It's difficult to know when, also, to put someone else's work up as news as they may not be ready for it to be reviewed. In other words... we are vastly under manned. :) So, it's not really easy to coordinate these things. > You have a Twitter feed, but you mostly post US politics stuff. As it > happens I agree with your sentiments on that, but I am not American and > it's not my argument. Not my circus, not my monkey, as they say in > Polish. You might alienate people with the political stuff. Very true. If you have noticed, things are a bit weird here in the states on that spectrum, but we won't discuss that here. I should keep the politics out of the mix. I have questions about using X/Twitter in generate since was bought because it doesn't seem that people are really listening there anymore. > I suggest > that you don't and split your presence there into a personal account and > a GNUstep account. > I have considered doing that, but the account is better known as a source for GNUstep related information. I will start posting more of that. I saw 2 blog posts in the last month; both seem to have been deleted and > just say > I had one post that was a little bit harsh against a recent client due to their misunderstanding of "Free Software" as the person who ran the company thought that because I was their "liaison" to GNUstep that the work done on GNUstep on their behalf was free. That's why that one was missing. > « > Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist. > » > Similar to X/Twitter... I will start making more posts. I have also been considering making YouTube videos. I already have some... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyhtDLE7yvg_rdaa-rD9H6A Some videos on that channel are by my son. :). But I am generally making more GS related videos on it. > This is already having > > negative repercussions for the project. > > > > > > Can you be specific? > > Yes, in the next line, which you quote. > > > > > For example the 2 most visible projects to offer replacements for > > Apple macOS do not use GNUstep: > > > > https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/ <https://hellosystem.github.io/ > > docs/> > > > > > > Probono realized after doing his live cd that taking GNUstep the rest of > > the way involved ACTUAL work that he was unwilling to do. > > Er, look, you may be right and you may be wrong, but that is not a > productive way to build community. > You mean calling Probono out for what he actually did? Look... I get what you mean. And, most days, I am very positive. A veritable CHEERLEADER for this project because I love it so deeply. By the same token it bothers me when people simply try it and immediately ABANDON it and don't give us any feedback or clue why they did so. This happens to us quite often, so it's difficult for me to hold back my frustration when it happens in
Re: "Wayland Maker - A Wayland compositor inspired by Window Maker"
ments built from these: NEXTSPACE and > GSDE. > There is a third coming known as Gershwin. 3. A Linux software packaging and distribution system built from > these: ".app" application bundles. This is, or at least should have > been, a rival to AppImage, the GNOME Flatpak format, and Canonical's > Snap format. > We don't have a monopoly on the .app extension, but it is well known that we were the first to use it on linux. > At present GNUstep is getting critically dated because Objective-C is > heading towards obsolescence, replaced by Swift. > > https://github.com/swiftlang/swift > This is a link to the language repo, not proof ObjC is being replaced. I had a friend that I worked with about 8 years ago who predicted that all of Cocoa (YESSS COCOA!!!) and UIKit would be replaced by Swift within 1-2 years. Hasn't happened yet, looks like it isn't going to. Keep dreaming. That being said I have been looking into getting the portions in the Swift compiler that are under SWIFT_OBJC_INTEROP to work on GNUstep. So work is being done. > Swift is FOSS and cross-platform. It runs on and targets all Apple > OSes, plus Linux, Android, and Windows, as my colleague wrote: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/30/official_swift_programming_for_windows/ To quote the article "So long as you don't need a GUI" ;) Before better websites or better docs, support for Swift on GNUstep as > well as Obj-C should, IMHO, be a burningly pressing priority for > GNUstep, but it does not seem to be. > You would know if you ASKED. Because it is. I, personally, have been focused on getting the existing code updated. > However, very soon after that, if GNUstep can't target Wayland it will > be history as well. WLmaker could potentially be a lifeline. > > It already does, as mentioned above. It might let GSDE and NEXTSPACE survive at least. > They do contribute back, but plenty is going on to do interesting things in GNUstep. GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: WindowMaker preferences
I believe that their preferences are stored in plist format. If so it should be trivial to write a prefpane to handle settings for WindowMaker. Even if it isn't, writing some kind of adapter should be possible. GC On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 5:16 AM Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi, > > do you think it would make sense to collaborate with WindowMaker if they > want to support (or move to) a preference system more similar to ours? > Not that it is completely different and maybe they were more similar 20 > years ago. But .e.g both use the GNUstep directory (which is the reason > it often existed before). However GNUstep now has every plist namend > "xxx.plist" and not just the filename. > Also minor details in the folders could be matched. > It would integrate things better, but perhaps also more easily e.g. to > update wmaker preferences from a GNUstep panel > > Do you think it would be a good idea to ping them? > > Riccardo > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: Decision and Action List - Web Site and Marketing improvements
Riccardo, On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:49 AM Riccardo Mottola < riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: > Hi, > > I had a clear mind and thought over a couple of things this weekend. I > want to sum up a list of topics that we should discuss and decide so > that action can be taken as well as consequent actions. > > I like evolutionary approaches, so I think the website can be gradually > improved and I will work on that - provided somebody chimes in to write I worry that nothing will change. I know you're busy. I think what's best is if we develop another site in parallel, independent of the existing site. actual parts of it too (e.g. content). Also, no work gets lost.. if we > decide to split the site the contents can always be moved over, while if > you work on a complete new site and it doesn't finish, moving over is > harder. Some stuff could be done in parallel... so I hope the points > below will be for "everybody". > Other premise, I envision GNUstep appealing several audiences, since it > has several parts in it: core framework, porting framework, extra > libraries, applications, developer tools etc > > Some decisions: > > 1) "Core Library" name. Possibly logo? > Also, need clarification. You already said you're against the logo that includes the orca, but I am not sure that matters. It's actually my preferred logo since it was something that was discussed a while back. > 2) Project name > GNUstep. :) If you guys think it should be changed, fine, but I don't think that would work. > 3) "GNUstep name usage" > Sorry, I am not sure that the idea of how the GNUstep name will be used ever came up or is in question. I do believe that WindowMaker is a very large source of confusion. So, for clarification, what are you referring to here? > 4) relation to other Desktop environments and the way we "quote" them > and how they can quote GNUstep > Given that we are EXPLICITLY not a Desktop Environment, we should have links to them. Some Actions: > > 1) Once decided the "Core Library" name, I will make the web site > coherent in all places I find > I already have a couple of people on the discord (namely Ethan and Damian) discussing documentation. You should join. https://discord.gg/M2REKrD5 > 1bis) Same work on the Wiki... that one can be easily done by everyone > 2) If we like to have a specific name or term for "GNUstep project" I > will update the current site to reflect it > 2bis) Same work on the Wiki > TBH, I think the wiki needs to be reduced. Right now it is somewhat redundant as some of the pages on the wiki have the same content as the pages on the main website. The wiki should be reserved for tutorials and other information. > 3) Some people involved might just read this list and comply, otherwise > we should contact them, up to Gregory as leader himself > We should discuss this further. > 4) if we agree on some action, I will update the WebSite > I don't think you should do it alone. 5) update and "describe" the library presentation (after 1) for obvious > reasons shown here: > https://www.gnustep.org/developers/map.html I think that map still makes a lot of sense. Is there a way we can generate some of this information as part of the documentation? > 6) review the developer index. I think the contribution note needs to be > moved and some "text" should be written instead of just pointers. > Imagine this would be the home for developers. It is the index.html > (e.g. developers.gnustep.org <-> www.gnustep.org/developers/ ) > https://www.gnustep.org/developers/index.html > Okay. It is not that inviting. Generally, presentations of the libraries > should go in here if they are not project general. > > 7) Work with Richard on links to "unframe" frames of Reference > documentation and study a way to navigate it within the site. Just a > first step to clean this up. > One thing that might be interesting here is to make it possible for autogsdoc to generate something other than HTML or to make it possible for it to avoid using some of the older tags which are not addressable by CSS. > Stop here but there are more :) What do you think? Let's start to work > and discuss? > > Riccardo > Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: GNUstep web site and marketing thoughts
Riccardo, On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 9:19 AM Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi, > > > Gregory Casamento wrote: > > Action items I believe need to be taken from this discussion... > > > > 1) We need to understand what our role is within the community... I, > > personally, think making GNUstep a framework+Dev Env was the right > > decision, leave the desktop up to interested parties... > > 2) We need to refactor the website to be more developer centric. I DO > > NOT think this involves different domains. I think this involves > > making the website more of a reference site with easily accessible > > documentation and links to supported desktop environments. > >a) This will be done on gnustep.github.io > > <http://gnustep.github.io> since we are no longer using that. > > > > We can always decide to split domains later, I prefer the approach of > keeping e.g. "www.gnustep.org/developers", but there is no limit. > Still we can improve homepage and references to enhance impression. > I think it's too early to decide on what to keep and what not to. > > No ill feelings. Not on my part at least. But you know the > > feeling od > > something which has been discussed over and over and never > > comes out the > > same again? > > > > > > This is usually because no action is taken afterward. We suck at > > "taking homework" if you will from discussions and acting on > > whatever action items arise from the discussion. That will not > > be the case this time. > > > > Well, not only, for certain things consensus wasn't reached. For others > we got really a lot of lost time and energy. > The only practical way to reach a consensus is to do something and see what people think. That's what is going on. It is difficult to reach a consensus since there is no way on this list to take a vote. I think I found certain topics and action points we can tackle whatever > later decision whe do, so i think we should discuss them. For my part, I > promise (slow) action will follow and maybe other chime in. Also, maybe > certain decisions and actions will make following steps easier. > > Writing it up, will come out soon. > I think you just posted it. Riccardo > GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: GNUstep web site and marketing thoughts
Action items I believe need to be taken from this discussion... 1) We need to understand what our role is within the community... I, personally, think making GNUstep a framework+Dev Env was the right decision, leave the desktop up to interested parties... 2) We need to refactor the website to be more developer centric. I DO NOT think this involves different domains. I think this involves making the website more of a reference site with easily accessible documentation and links to supported desktop environments. a) This will be done on gnustep.github.io since we are no longer using that. Yours, GC On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 6:41 AM Gregory Casamento wrote: > Hey, > > I apologize you guys. Many of my replies were not going to the list since > I was accidentally hitting the "reply" instead of "reply all" button on > gmail when I was replying on my phone. Argh!!! > > I am going to attempt to summarize my thoughts on this and what actions we > are taking below... > > On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 6:58 PM Riccardo Mottola < > riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: > >> Hi Damianos, >> >> Damianos Sidiropoulos wrote: >> > I'm sorry if any of this has caused any ill feelings. That was not my >> > intention. >> > I started with that particular premise because that is what the lead >> > developer of the project communicated with me. >> > > Damian, I don't think what you posted upset anyone or caused ill > feelings. We are all adults here and independent criticism is a good thing > and it helps the project grow because it provides a unique perspective. > > I need to address something that, while not mentioned here, Riccardo did > say it in a previous email. When I say that GNUstep should be viewed as a > framework, you seem to apply this to "PORTING" framework. This is not my > intention and to make sure that's not what you were thinking. I want > GNUstep to be a Development Environment compatible with Cocoa, not just a > "porting" framework. That's what Cocotron was and it is now dead. > GNUstep persists for several reasons: > > 0) We love it :) > 1) It's independent of Apple technology... Cocotron was tied to working > with Xcode, when that changed it broke > 2) It's got its OWN development environment Gorm and ProjectCenter as well > as the ability to use XIBs and build from xcodeproj files using libs-xcode > 3) The license... the LGPL has helped us leverage the improvements and > changes made by other organizations... most notably Keysight and > Algoriddim. Their contributions are extremely important. > > And a few other reasons, but mainly it's the people involved who love it > that keep it going. :) > > >> No ill feelings. Not on my part at least. But you know the feeling od >> something which has been discussed over and over and never comes out the >> same again? >> > > This is usually because no action is taken afterward. We suck at "taking > homework" if you will from discussions and acting on whatever action items > arise from the discussion. That will not be the case this time. > > >> > >> > The GNUstep web site also communicates this message on one of the pages >> > >> > https://wwwmain.gnustep.org/information/aboutGNUstep.html >> >> I know... however on the same page it specifies the destkop and >> application stuff. It is confusing and I think, here, a specific term >> for the "Core" could help being clearer. Perhaps we should say. We, >> GNUstep, are a project and produce "GNUSTEP" as "Core" or other name >> like Stairway. Also we give you tools, apps.. but we are not a... xx, >> yy, zz. It would be clearer. >> I had full hands with maintaining the site, but had not the feeling to >> write this, since it should be discussed. The feeling of "don't know how >> to touch it" without displeasing somebody. >> >> Also the domain continues to irk me :) >> > > I need to summarize my feelings here... I think what we need to do is what > we do best. We are all experienced developers. Most of us work on the > frameworks and on the development applications. This is our strength, we > are developers making a development environment. The talk of a "reference > distribution" I think needs to be something that is handled by another > group such as GSDE, Gershin, NEXTSPACE etc. They are all doing an awesome > job at what THEY do best. What we need to do is to put our efforts behind > supporting them... the reason is, if we create our OWN distribution then we > are undermining their efforts AND we are ta
Re: GNUstep web site and marketing thoughts
o make popular apps. > > That's fine.. I think STF will be mostly interested in the "Technology", > that is the frameworks. But who knows... maybe a Libre Laptop with a > GNU/Linux with GNUstep could be. > The proposal mentions a number of open source projects and external entities using GNUstep. It also emphasizes that GNUstep provides a way for developers to leverage their skills on multiple platforms. This is one of the strengths GNUstep has as a development environment. If you learn how to do something on a mac, it's a very short walk to do the same thing on GS or vice versa. This was an important part of the proposal you both reviewed. > > Even the page (which I had to find via search engine) which provided a > > link to download GWorkspace didn't actually provide an app. It is a > > link to the source code and users are expected to compile it. > > https://gnustep.github.io/experience/GWorkspace.html > > Well it provides an App in the form of source coed and not a binary. > There is no easy way to distribute an "app" on 5 different operating > systems and who knows how many architectures and distributions. It is > not macOS on Apple silicon only. Classic opensource: wget, tar xzf > configure, make install :) > Indeed, I can only agree here. It would be nice if the process provided multiple binaries, but given GNUstep's portability source seems most appropriate. > > Between all that and the lack of any desktop ISO for users to download > > and install, I had no reason to believe that GNUstep was anything > > other than an app/platform building framework > > That's where Gershwin, GSDE, NEXTSPACE, etc come in. It would be good if we provided links to all of them so that users can use GNUstep as an environment. The point I am trying to make is that GNUstep should be viewed as a development environment, but that we should support desktops. As demonstrated by this group's lack of action on that front that is not what we excel at. We are good at writing code for tools and the framework... we are not good at building distributions. Building a distro is NO SMALL TASK and so, as I stated above, I think it should be something that we allow others to do and do everything we can to support them. Our website needs to reflect this. > This is another "sore point", at the end it is best to provide source > tarballs and git repositories: for developers and advanced users. > > Indeed. all others should be able to do "apt-get install gworkspace.app" or > "pkg_add gworkspace" or equivalent. (you can actually do that on Debian, > NetBSD and more). > We could provide binary repositories... but thin what average Joe wants > to do, just install the easiest way. > > > > > > This was just the premise I was given. The slides were just my way of > > gathering my thoughts on how the current state of the web site is not > > consistent with that premise. > > I am of course happy to go with whatever messaging the project decides > on. > > The premise was not wrong, only partial. > > I still think you are right that we give a lot of mixed messages or have > difficulty communicating because overloaded terms, missing website > sections, etc etc. > Yes. Thank you. Mixed messages is something we don't want. > > E.g. > - should we define a term, word, group of words to define our > "framework" part? You evidence that need. It would help in rewriting so > many stuff less ambiguous > - should that term have a dedicated logo? > - should we define desktop projects are somehow endorsed, affiliated.. > if they can have say "GNUstep" in a correct way or they might > misrepresent us > - ditto above for distributions > - more and better organized developer documentation. I think we all > agree on the gap, just different ideas on what and how to doù > > Also, I think for "unresolved issues", like desktop, distribution and > similar we should agree on what to say on the website. > > It's a multi-headed hydra.. I hope I did not demoralize you. > Of course it is easier to say "we are X" and do only this and that. > Easier to market :) > > Riccardo > Very respectfully... Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: GNUstep web site and marketing thoughts
Lars, I have informed him about the issues that we have identified and discussed in the past. Do you have any comments on what he has just posted? Also Damien was on the call with us a month or so ago. So while he’s new to the list he’s not new to the project. I think his ideas deserve consideration. Yours, Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 04:40 lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de < lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: > Hi Damianos, > > > at first: Welcome to GNUstep! > > I assume that you’re new to our mailing lists too, so you may not know > that we had similar discussions before, the latest as recent as February of > this year. I think (and hope) that you might be interested in getting > yourself up to date on that topic, get informed about what already has been > discussed. > > Luckily we have an Archive of our list: > > https://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnustep/ > > You’ll find those discussions here: > > https://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnustep/2024-02/msg00013.html > > https://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnustep/2024-02/msg00035.html > > https://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnustep/2024-02/msg00046.html > > https://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnustep/2024-02/msg00048.html > > those links show a threaded view, be sure not to miss the replies! > > Happy reading! > > > Kind regards, > > Lars > > Am 10.07.2024 um 20:18 schrieb Damianos Sidiropoulos < > damianos.bouzo...@gmail.com>: > > Hello everybody. Just to quickly introduce myself, my name is Damian > Szidiropulosz. > > Greg and I have been talking about things and the subject of the web site > came up. As I have some experience in that area, he asked me if I would > take a look at it and perhaps see about working on it. > > As you might imagine before any sort of work can be done, one should > assess what is already in place. I took a look at it and since one can't > really discuss a website without getting into general marketing topics, I > started to compile my own thoughts on the subject in the form of some > slides. > Sometimes when there are visual elements involved I do this over simple > note taking. > > In any event, I shared the slides with Greg and he agreed with many of the > conclusions. He suggested I share it in the mailing list for feedback. The > link is below. Please take a look and share your thoughts. > > > https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1gg42lbgbGf05WUMUIh4UGG_DqIpOKet-H51en3ubOBM/edit?usp=sharing > > Thanks and best regards, > Damian > > >
Re: GNUstep web site and marketing thoughts
Hey guys. Damian has some very good points in this discussion. I believe what we should do is to create a new website on https://gnustep.github.org and see what people think. Yours, GC Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 14:19 Damianos Sidiropoulos < damianos.bouzo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello everybody. Just to quickly introduce myself, my name is Damian > Szidiropulosz. > > Greg and I have been talking about things and the subject of the web site > came up. As I have some experience in that area, he asked me if I would > take a look at it and perhaps see about working on it. > > As you might imagine before any sort of work can be done, one should > assess what is already in place. I took a look at it and since one can't > really discuss a website without getting into general marketing topics, I > started to compile my own thoughts on the subject in the form of some > slides. > Sometimes when there are visual elements involved I do this over simple > note taking. > > In any event, I shared the slides with Greg and he agreed with many of the > conclusions. He suggested I share it in the mailing list for feedback. The > link is below. Please take a look and share your thoughts. > > > https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1gg42lbgbGf05WUMUIh4UGG_DqIpOKet-H51en3ubOBM/edit?usp=sharing > > Thanks and best regards, > Damian >
May be late to tomorrow’s meeting.
I learned earlier today that we are burying my mother in the morning tomorrow (the funeral was last month but getting the mausoleum took a little while). We are placing her and my father’s cremated remains there. I apologize for this as I didn’t know in time to postpone or to cancel. I’ll be there just wait up for me. :) Yours. GC Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Bug fix release to address broken nib loading...
Hey guys, Let us do another release of GUI to address the recent issue with nib loading. While this isn't a show-stopper it might present an issue to some users. GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: GNUstep Bi-Monthly Meeting
Hey guys. I will, of course, be there. I’m looking forward to seeing all of you. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 04:10 Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi Lars, > > lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de wrote: > > Who will participate? I hope, this reminder comes early enough > > the reminder is early, but as as I anticipated privately to some of you, > I will probably not make it. Perhaps just a short drop. > It will be my birthday and that date has been planned a little bit > earlier :) I should be with girlfriend, parents, relatives if not, I > shall call in. But I hope not :) > > I would have actually to discuss some things, after release. Show the > latest fixes that came in in gui, as well as work on GWorkspace which > should come out. > The website should be "live" by Saturday, if not, this shall be a gently > reminder even in my absence. > > Take care, > > Riccardo > >
Fwd: [gnustep/apps-gorm] Release gorm-1_4_0 - gorm-1_4_0
Release of Gorm. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation -- Forwarded message - From: Gregory Casamento Date: Thu, May 30, 2024 at 01:16 Subject: [gnustep/apps-gorm] Release gorm-1_4_0 - gorm-1_4_0 To: gnustep/apps-gorm CC: Gregory Casamento , Your activity < your_activ...@noreply.github.com> gorm-1_4_0 <https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gorm/releases/tag/gorm-1_4_0> Repository: gnustep/apps-gorm <https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gorm> · Tag: gorm-1_4_0 <https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gorm/tree/gorm-1_4_0> · Commit: 427831b <https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gorm/commit/427831b439ea522a2743f0dba3646de53e9ce084> · Released by: gcasa <https://github.com/gcasa> 1 ANNOUNCE -- This is version 1.4.0 of Gorm. 1.1 What is Gorm? Gorm is an acronym for Graphic Object Relationship modeler (or perhaps GNUstep Object Relationship Modeler). Gorm is a clone of the Cocoa (OpenStep/NeXTSTEP) 'Interface Builder' application for GNUstep. 1.2 Noteworthy changes in version '1.4.0' - Fix issue with saving a gorm from a nib file. - Fix issue with saving a gorm file from a xib. - Add XLIF support for language translation. - Add capability to generate XIB file. - Add gormtool command-line tool. Allows some gorm work without the gui - Fixes and some improvements to structure Gorm as framework/app. 1.3 How can I get support for this software? You may wish to use the GNUstep discussion mailing list for general questions and discussion. Look at the GNUstep Web Pages for more information regarding GNUstep resources http://www.gnustep.org/ 1.4 Where can you get it? How can you compile it? You can download sources and rpms (for some machines) from ftp://ftp.gnustep.org/pub/gnustep/dev-apps. 1.5 Where do I send bug reports? Bug reports can be sent to bug-gnus...@gnu.org. 1.6 Obtaining GNU Software Check out the GNUstep web site. (http://www.gnustep.org/), and the GNU web site. (http://www.gnu.org/) — This release has 2 assets: - Source code (zip) - Source code (tar.gz) Visit the release page <https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gorm/releases/tag/gorm-1_4_0> to download them. — You are receiving this because you are watching this repository. View it on GitHub <https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gorm/releases/tag/gorm-1_4_0> or unsubscribe <https://github.com/gnustep/apps-gorm/unsubscribe_via_email/AAAG2JYJI5LFGM76GN3ZNMDZE2YZFANCNFSM4AK3SQ7A> from all notifications for this repository.
Re: Something has recently changed to break the build...
Seconded, I apologize for not being clear. The release should be done, I believe everything is fine. On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 1:08 PM Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi Richard, > > Richard Frith-Macdonald wrote: > > I want to make a release ... is this going to block it? > > Please could you re-check making sure that you are using current code > from the repository and that you have re-run configure > > no, go and release. Issue solved. I was on latest already, but for some > reason, my repository was missing files! > git reset --hard fixed it. > But I was not working on it.. very strange, anyway. A red herring. > Tested clean, configure, make install went fine. No build issues. > > Riccardo > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: Something has recently changed to break the build...
The issue SEEMS to be cleared now in CI on github.com. I am not sure what was causing it. On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 3:10 AM Richard Frith-Macdonald < rich...@frithmacdonald.me.uk> wrote: > > > > On 27 May 2024, at 15:41, Riccardo Mottola > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Gregory Casamento wrote: > >> I was building on github.com <http://github.com>. RFM has fixed it... > It builds fine on my machine, but just for the record... > >> > >> Debian 12, clang 14 > >> > > > > hmm... On old Debian with gcc all works. > > > > However, I think this caused a regresion, a GCC build on NetBSD causes: > > Making all for subproject ObjectiveC2... > > Compiling file blocks_runtime.m ... > > Compiling file NSBlocks.m ... > > NSBlocks.m:6:2: warning: #warning Unable to build NSBlocks for this > runtime. [-Wcpp] > > 6 | #warning Unable to build NSBlocks for this runtime. > > | ^~~ > > Making all for subproject Additions... > > gmake[5]: Nothing to be done for 'internal-subproject-compile'. > > gmake[3]: GNUmakefile: No such file or directory > > gmake[3]: *** No rule to make target 'GNUmakefile'. Stop. > > gmake[2]: *** [/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/rules.make:297: > libgnustep-base.all.library.variables] Error 2 > > gmake[1]: *** [/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/library.make:37: > internal-all] Error 2 > > gmake: *** > [/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/serial-subdirectories.make:53: > internal-all] Error 2 > > > > > > > > something is misconfiguring here. This is a clean build on a clean > computer... > > > > Riccardo > > I want to make a release ... is this going to block it? > Please could you re-check making sure that you are using current code from > the repository and that you have re-run configure -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: Something has recently changed to break the build...
I’m sorry I didn’t make it clear in my original email that this was a failure on GitHub CI. NOT only local machine. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 11:39 Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi, > > Gregory Casamento wrote: > > I was building on github.com <http://github.com>. RFM has fixed it... > > It builds fine on my machine, but just for the record... > > > > Debian 12, clang 14 > > > > hmm... On old Debian with gcc all works. > > However, I think this caused a regresion, a GCC build on NetBSD causes: > Making all for subproject ObjectiveC2... > Compiling file blocks_runtime.m ... > Compiling file NSBlocks.m ... > NSBlocks.m:6:2: warning: #warning Unable to build NSBlocks for this > runtime. [-Wcpp] > 6 | #warning Unable to build NSBlocks for this runtime. >| ^~~ > Making all for subproject Additions... > gmake[5]: Nothing to be done for 'internal-subproject-compile'. > gmake[3]: GNUmakefile: No such file or directory > gmake[3]: *** No rule to make target 'GNUmakefile'. Stop. > gmake[2]: *** [/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/rules.make:297: > libgnustep-base.all.library.variables] Error 2 > gmake[1]: *** [/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/library.make:37: > internal-all] Error 2 > gmake: *** > [/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/serial-subdirectories.make:53: > internal-all] Error 2 > > > > something is misconfiguring here. This is a clean build on a clean > computer... > > Riccardo >
Re: Something has recently changed to break the build...
I was building on github.com. RFM has fixed it... It builds fine on my machine, but just for the record... Debian 12, clang 14 Yours, GC On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 9:04 AM Hugo Melder wrote: > > I re-ran the base test for Ubuntu 22 GCC to test this and it fails. > > > Weird that 'obj/ObjectiveC2.obj/blocks_runtime.m.o’ is marked as needed > when gnustep-base is configured for GCC... > Can you send me the config.log? What is your SDK environment? -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Something has recently changed to break the build...
I am not sure if this is a problem with the runners or a problem with changes to code or CI... I am seeing the following failure: Compiling file GSAvahiNetServiceBrowser.m ... Compiling file GSAvahiClient.m ... Compiling file GSAvahiRunLoopIntegration.m ... gmake[4]: *** No rule to make target 'obj/ObjectiveC2.obj/blocks_runtime.m.o', needed by 'obj/libgnustep-base.so.1.29.0'. Stop. gmake[4]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs Compiling file GSFFIInvocation.m ... gmake[3]: *** [/__w/libs-base/libs-base/build/share/GNUstep/Makefiles/Instance/library.make:286: internal-library-all_] Error 2 gmake[2]: *** [/__w/libs-base/libs-base/build/share/GNUstep/Makefiles/Master/rules.make:297: libgnustep-base.all.library.variables] Error 2 gmake[1]: *** [/__w/libs-base/libs-base/build/share/GNUstep/Makefiles/Master/library.make:37: internal-all] Error 2 make: *** [/__w/libs-base/libs-base/build/share/GNUstep/Makefiles/Master/serial-subdirectories.make:53: internal-all] Error 2 I re-ran the base test for Ubuntu 22 GCC to test this and it fails. I did this after it failed on my branch's draft PR. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Re: using XDPS backend to display NextOpenStep apps remotely
Sweet!!! Please share your progress. I would love to learn more. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 17:27 Ondrej Florian wrote: > Thanks Gregory. > > Communicating between GNUstep and Next is actually not that bad. > I managed to sync pasteboard by using simple TCP client/server and > transferring strings, RTF or TIFF data as appropriate. > > The Previous has NFS server built-in, so working with files is just matter > of transforming local paths to network paths and then executing appropriate > app (using the simple TCP client/server) in Next. > > I mapped Previous into its own windowmaker workspace. > That works reasonably well but it is somewhat limiting for day to day > usage. > > I'll take a look at DSP server as you've suggested and see where it leads > me ;-). > > On 2024-04-28 22:41:53 +0200 Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > I had given this some thought some years ago. Let's go over what you > said > > you need... > > > > 1) running the next emulator headless... > > > > I think this could be accomplished, no problem. You could either use > > Previous or qemu (running the intel version of OPENSTEP). > > > > 2) Communication via DPS... > > > > You don't need XDPS for this. The XDPS backend for GNUstep was an > attempt > > to use the Display Postscript that was going to be integrated into X11, > but > > this never happened because the people on the project determined that > > postscript was better done as a client/app side thing rather than in the > X > > server itself. Here is the discussion... > > > > > https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5/doc/graphics/dps.html#:~:text=Display%20Postscript%20 > > (or%20DPS%20for,code%20from%20client%20to%20server. > > > > One place you can get information is from the following website, he has > > done a fair bit of hacking on PS and DPS... > > > > https://www.wizards.de/~frank/franksprojects.html > > > > Of particular interest is project Akira. It may be possible to connect > to > > the DPS server over a port and communicate with it, but no one has done > > that and I am not sure the remote capability is present either in the > > DGS/DPS backend that X was planning. > > > > 3) Pasteboard bridging... > > > > The pasteboard on the NeXT likely uses the typedstream style of encoding > > that was common on the NeXT machine. This encoding has never been > reverse > > engineered... one possible resource for this is a python program I found > > recently that discovers, in part, the structure of typedstream > archives... > > > > https://github.com/dgelessus/python-typedstream.git > > > > The tool doesn't get the data it just breaks down what data is there > which > > could be instrumental in reverse engineering it. > > > > CONCLUSION... > > > > As you can see there is a fair amount of work here. This is all of the > > information I have discovered over the years on this. If I find anything > > else or dig up any other information that might be useful I will let you > > know. > > > > Yours, GC > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 2:32 PM Ondrej Florian > wrote: > > > >> Hi everyone, > > > >> I am working on integrating the Next emulator > >> (http://previous.alternative-system.com/) > >> into the GSDE (https://github.com/onflapp/gs-desktop). > > > >> I understand the original Next/OpenStep could display apps remotely (I > >> guess that's where NXHost arg comes from). > >> Does anyone know how this actually worked? > >> Could it be possible to use XDPS backed for for that? > > > >> My hope is that I could run the Next emulator "headless" and display > >> the original apps along side GNUstep apps in the same desktop (plus > >> bridging pasteboard etc. ;-). > >> Kind of like how the classic mode worked on OS X. > > > >> Any ideas? > > > >> Many thanks, > >> Ondrej > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: using XDPS backend to display NextOpenStep apps remotely
Hey, I had given this some thought some years ago. Let's go over what you said you need... 1) running the next emulator headless... I think this could be accomplished, no problem. You could either use Previous or qemu (running the intel version of OPENSTEP). 2) Communication via DPS... You don't need XDPS for this. The XDPS backend for GNUstep was an attempt to use the Display Postscript that was going to be integrated into X11, but this never happened because the people on the project determined that postscript was better done as a client/app side thing rather than in the X server itself. Here is the discussion... https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5/doc/graphics/dps.html#:~:text=Display%20Postscript%20 (or%20DPS%20for,code%20from%20client%20to%20server. One place you can get information is from the following website, he has done a fair bit of hacking on PS and DPS... https://www.wizards.de/~frank/franksprojects.html Of particular interest is project Akira. It may be possible to connect to the DPS server over a port and communicate with it, but no one has done that and I am not sure the remote capability is present either in the DGS/DPS backend that X was planning. 3) Pasteboard bridging... The pasteboard on the NeXT likely uses the typedstream style of encoding that was common on the NeXT machine. This encoding has never been reverse engineered... one possible resource for this is a python program I found recently that discovers, in part, the structure of typedstream archives... https://github.com/dgelessus/python-typedstream.git The tool doesn't get the data it just breaks down what data is there which could be instrumental in reverse engineering it. CONCLUSION... As you can see there is a fair amount of work here. This is all of the information I have discovered over the years on this. If I find anything else or dig up any other information that might be useful I will let you know. Yours, GC On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 2:32 PM Ondrej Florian wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I am working on integrating the Next emulator > (http://previous.alternative-system.com/) > into the GSDE (https://github.com/onflapp/gs-desktop). > > I understand the original Next/OpenStep could display apps remotely (I > guess that's where NXHost arg comes from). > Does anyone know how this actually worked? > Could it be possible to use XDPS backed for for that? > > My hope is that I could run the Next emulator "headless" and display > the original apps along side GNUstep apps in the same desktop (plus > bridging pasteboard etc. ;-). > Kind of like how the classic mode worked on OS X. > > Any ideas? > > Many thanks, > Ondrej > > > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
Limited availability from 4/29-5/1
Greetings All, I will have limited availability on the above dates. My mother passed away a couple of days ago and the funeral and burial are on Tuesday and Wednesday next week and I will, likely, be travelling on Monday. I will respond to email, but I beg your forgiveness if my response time suffers. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c https://www.gofundme.com/f/cacao-linux-a-gnustep-reference-implementation
GNUstep Discord
Please join if you like... https://discord.gg/UX3WxBZ2 Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Notes on GNUstep meeting
I came a little after you left, so did Fred. What was discussed after that point was the following: * Also saw Marco's tools that he and his team are using to develop games... VERY VERY VERY impressive. * Also saw his GWorkspace changes, he has renamed GWorkspace to Workspace and we should consider some of his changes * I don't know if he was using GCC to build his stuff or clang. * We also discussed documentation. Is retiring autogsdoc something we may want to consider? * Retiring autogsdoc would have the following advantages * We would not have to maintain something that is outside of the responsibility of the project, a documentation generator can be left to another project to do and there are ones that do it better. * It would allow us to leverage the work done by others on projects that are dedicated to doing this. * We could keep the output of the HTML as fancy or as simple as we wish * It would also have the following disadvantages: * We might need to redo some of the commits in the code so that it can be properly parsed. * I also spoke to Fred about the changes I am making for view-based tables. I believe most of the other things we discussed were the same as what you mentioned in your email. Amazingly I think we continued for about 5 hours more after I arrived. I apologize for arriving late. Yours, GC On Sun, Apr 14, 2024 at 4:41 AM Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi all! > > I note down sone impressions on this meeting, it was almost 2hrs for me. > Even without Fred and Gregory, we had some good discussion. > Josh partiticpated only through texting, so while he out some interesting > points, it was a bit one-way discussion > > * Agreed to delay release to about the end of May, to allow for code > freeze and a thourough testing of all changes that were commited lately. I > Wrote a separate mail about that > * Updates from Hugo about libobcj2 and agreed to do again work on NetBSD > support > * Marco shared a lot of his enthusiasm about GNUstep, shared his screen > and showed off some of his work by screen sharing. A passionate “NeXT style > & theme user” with gcc. Very encouraging, thanks! I am so used to harsh > critique about our look, missing features, instead he showed some extended > usage also of apps and tools! He has local versions of his apps. He > discussed a lot of issues. > - Possible GWorkspace or NSWorkspace issues when copying folder. I > pointed to test the same files on another filesystem or try with the same > filesystem using StepSync, to try to pinpoint the issue. Then we should > definitely look at it. I will try NFS too > - GWorkspace issues with caused crashes of which he has local > patches, I’d like to review them one by one, trying tro reproduce and fix > upstream > - same goes for GNUmail, I want to see the crash fixes, since > GNUMail is quite stable for me > - TGA support needed for him. Should go through ImageMagick, it is > quite broken for me. I’d like to test and see what can be done, fix IM 6 & > 7 if possible. I would not consider it a release blocker, but let’s see > what can go in before and afterwards. > - actual help files written for HelpViewer - if some are of > general usage, they should be distributed! > - new views about Zipper integration with GWorkspace… work that > needs study. > > Riccardo > > — > Written with GNUMail on MacOS > > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Reminder!!! GNUstep meeting 12:30-1:30est
Liam, Noted. I will do that next time. I suppose I made the mistake of thinking that timezones were a universal concept. For reference I believe right now it’s UTC-4 because of the additional silliness of daylight savings time. I am not sure why you felt need for the pointless straw-man argument about Fahrenheit, I got what you were saying. Yours, GC Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 06:13 Liam Proven wrote: > On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 at 08:37, Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > > > Anybody is welcome. Please come!!! > > Error: not in America, do not speak American timezones. I have to > Google it _every single time_. > > Please, for the ROTW, remember to add in UTC or GMT because everyone > knows how far they are away from that. EST is provincial. It's like > fahrenheit. Nobody else in the world uses fahrenheit. I am 56 years > old and schools no longer taught Fahrenheit when I went half a century > ago. > > All those annoying internet memes about "ºF is how people feel" -- > nobody else in the entire planet except you guys. Not even Canadians, > AFAIK. > > _Please_ I implore you try to always remember that. It matters. > > -- > Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven > IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 > Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 >
Re: Reminder!!! GNUstep meeting 12:30-1:30est
Saturday!!! Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 03:36 Gregory Casamento wrote: > Jitsi Meeting - > https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably > > Anybody is welcome. Please come!!! > > > Gregory Casamento > GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant > http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings >
Reminder!!! GNUstep meeting 12:30-1:30est
Jitsi Meeting - https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably Anybody is welcome. Please come!!! Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Failing tests on MSVC in libs-base
I thought the 404 was the error we were trying to correct which is why I placed the file there. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 18:23 Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi, > > Ivan Vučica wrote: > > I saw this: this was recently addressed by replacing probe of > > example.org/silly-url-test because example.org started returning 503 > > or similar for that URL instead of 404. > > > > Incoming PR addressed this on every other platform by replacing > > example.org with another piece of infrastructure we don’t fully > > control, gnustep.github.io, so I merged it. (As I mentioned on that > > PR, worse solution would be if it depended on our infrastructure: DNS, > > Nginx, … on gnustep.org. Then any flake on home.gnustep.org or with > > Gandi for DNS would also start people’s tests failing.) > > > > I don't think this was the correct solution. Gregory added a file to the > websites, but that's not the intent of a 404! > Also, I think it is case-sensitive. > > I don't think the PR was a good one? RIght now we fail on windows (just > checked) and FreeBSD, Linux... so it is a consistent "broken" behaviour, > not just windows. > > Riccardo > >
Failing tests on MSVC in libs-base
Hey, In the MSVC gnustep-2.0 test in libs-base, we are getting the following: base/NSURL/basic.m: 213 <https://mailtrack.io/l/3ba66fe45d10ae3b2daf49c87b7dae97c7f9de7b?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fgnustep%2Flibs-base%2Factions%2Fruns%2F8521029200%2Fjob%2F23367539084%23step%3A15%3A214&u=2790543&signature=c647ded00d893ff5>Failed test: (2024-04-02 22:32:07.070 +) basic.m:63 ... Status of load is 404 for gnustep.github.io/silly-file-name 215 <https://mailtrack.io/l/49544cdddae3b987548c912f59affc425aea5fd1?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fgnustep%2Flibs-base%2Factions%2Fruns%2F8521029200%2Fjob%2F23367539084%23step%3A15%3A216&u=2790543&signature=6d2f6a3ccb5b8315>base/NSURL/test01.m: 216 <https://mailtrack.io/l/81f90882f9137c6915531ad7e9d7adca8c03c242?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fgnustep%2Flibs-base%2Factions%2Fruns%2F8521029200%2Fjob%2F23367539084%23step%3A15%3A217&u=2790543&signature=005bad4e8ec47fc1>Failed file: test01.m aborted without running all tests! 217 <https://mailtrack.io/l/aa8121277085e7c66b09ae11aabb0eac3940cf56?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fgnustep%2Flibs-base%2Factions%2Fruns%2F8521029200%2Fjob%2F23367539084%23step%3A15%3A218&u=2790543&signature=839aed25902e818d>--- Running tests in base/NSURLConnection --- 218 <https://mailtrack.io/l/b631bcf65c749b2809c497ef9623c584b3e29266?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fgnustep%2Flibs-base%2Factions%2Fruns%2F8521029200%2Fjob%2F23367539084%23step%3A15%3A219&u=2790543&signature=48acefee2e857e45>--- Running tests in base/NSURLHandle --- I wondering what is causing this and if we can fix it as it is causing a build failure. Thanks, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org <https://mailtrack.io/l/2a1264f3a0e86cde0ede7e8a29d130fe11297a55?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gnustep.org&u=2790543&signature=4bfed6b66e8bf42f> - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com <https://mailtrack.io/l/eef480fb5b06b94ed1aca5fa76bd08c0cb6a6ee5?url=http%3A%2F%2Fheronsperch.blogspot.com&u=2790543&signature=798f0d157903bb4c> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 <https://mailtrack.io/l/d8bdcf5115edcf3b0dcd890ba46f7f0c53fbcf7a?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2FbePatron%3Fu%3D352392&u=2790543&signature=e72bbac25a5927cc> - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c <https://mailtrack.io/l/ad3f0d83bc7573c17290b293d04dda793ffeb41d?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openhub.net%2Flanguages%2Fobjective_c&u=2790543&signature=b215a69a93db72f8> - OpenHub standings
Re: Questions about tools-scripts
Joseph, On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 11:59 AM Joseph Maloney wrote: > Hello, > First I just want to say thanks to the GNUstep developers for a really > cool project that I have been enjoying using. I wanted to inquire about > tools-scripts. I’ve been working on my own build scripts for a while to > build on Debian amd64/arm64, Arch Linux amd64, Rocky Linux amd64, and > FreeBSD amd64/aarch64. I believe that integrating tools-scripts could work > for me to reduce the amount of code I am generating on my own to do most of > the same things tools-scripts already does. However I’ve just hit a few > issues with some of the scripts not working so I wanted to see if pull > requests were welcome, or if tickets would be preferred in the git repo, or > another bug tracker. One important thing to remember is to invoke the scripts from the directory above, like so: ./tools-scripts/whichever-script-youre-calling otherwise they won't work properly. Both PRs and Tickets/Issues are welcome. For larger changes, you need to submit a copyright request at ass...@gnu.org and copy me. Once you've done that I can add you to the repository. The FSF takes some time to get the PDF to you and to process it and my policy is to allow people to contribute ASAP once they have requested the assignment with the assumption that they will submit it. I have worked on the scripts for a while so that they can provide commonly needed things when building GNUstep. > I made a pull request for tool-scripts to fix an issue with the > clone-all-repos-https script. If this were acceptable I wanted to generate > another PR to fix the clone-essential-repos-https script. After this I was > curious if the project would be interested in support for Arch Linux in the > install-dependencies-linux script? I hope this is the right place to ask > these initial questions. Thank you. > I will look at these PRs and YES support for Arch Linux would absolutely be welcomed and appreciated. I have heard there are people who want Arch support, so adding it would be awesome. Joe Maloney > Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org <https://mailtrack.io/l/71859a83e2188e49da3977973730861d19957b43?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gnustep.org&u=2790543&signature=5ee7888dfe72f39d> - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com <https://mailtrack.io/l/0d979d4e7e088aea5094a6152874a2f1118e01be?url=http%3A%2F%2Fheronsperch.blogspot.com&u=2790543&signature=be94a9fa7470b6b4> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 <https://mailtrack.io/l/8ef0d78367d12e565ae81cfc36b47c95b7f75b40?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2FbePatron%3Fu%3D352392&u=2790543&signature=e0ebda0e6e93beb4> - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c <https://mailtrack.io/l/227f869f15d71897acce22a23effdd05e20ea85f?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openhub.net%2Flanguages%2Fobjective_c&u=2790543&signature=5e45337123715bed> - OpenHub standings
Re: GnustepWeb Wikipedia page
I am not sure what we should do really. The reason for the takedown is "Notability". There are very few websites that use GNUstepWeb, so, while it works they might have a good point. In spite of that I would very much like to keep the page up there. Can someone make a contribution that they think is relevant? On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 3:40 PM David Wetzel wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I got notified that > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstepWeb > > Is flagged for deletion. > > It would be cool if someone would volunteer to enhance the article and > improve our visibility. > > Thanks :) > > David > > Sent from my iPhone > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Gorm build error
You’re trying to build the latest Gorm with older packages. That might be an issue right there. Gorm is heavily dependent on changes in gui. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 22:18 Boris D. wrote: > The issue is still present if I try to build Gorm with the latest > changes in the repo: > > Making all for app Gorm... > Creating Gorm.app/ > Compiling file GormAppDelegate.m ... > Compiling file GormLanguageViewController.m ... > Compiling file main.m ... > Linking app Gorm ... > ../../GormCore/GormCore.framework/libGormCore.so: error: undefined > reference to '__objc_ivar_offset_NSMatrix._selectedCells.^^C' > clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see > invocation) > gmake[5]: *** > [/usr/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Instance/application.make:131: > Gorm.app/./Gorm] Error 1 > gmake[4]: *** > [/usr/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Instance/application.make:145: > internal-app-run-compile-submake] Error 2 > gmake[3]: *** > [/usr/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/rules.make:297: > Gorm.all.app.variables] Error 2 > gmake[2]: *** > [/usr/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/application.make:38: > internal-all] Error 2 > gmake[1]: *** > > [/usr/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/serial-subdirectories.make:53: > internal-all] Error 2 > make: *** > > [/usr/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/serial-subdirectories.make:53: > internal-all] Error 2 > > > On 2024-03-26 11:23, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > I have added some changes to address this.I still need the > > information that I asked for to be fully sure that this will address > > your issue or that you are using a valid configuration. > > > > Please give it a try and let us know. > > > > Thanks, GC > > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 8:05 AM Gregory Casamento > > mailto:greg.casame...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > This appears to be coming from GormResourceEditor which derives from > > GormGenericEditor which derives from NSMatrix. > > > > _selectedCells is a non-private ivar of NSMatrix so it should be > > okay for it to be accessed directly by a subclass. Additionally, > > this builds properly both with clang and GCC on Debian. > > > > I am looking into this. Could you give any additional information > > about which version of the base and gui library you’re using? > > > > Thanks, > > Gregory Casamento > > GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant > > http://www.gnustep.org <http://www.gnustep.org> - > > http://heronsperch.blogspot.com <http://heronsperch.blogspot.com> > > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 > > <https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392> - Become a Patron > > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c > > <https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c> - OpenHub standings > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 03:07 Fred Kiefer > <mailto:fredkie...@gmx.de>> wrote: > > > > Looks like Gorm is using the instance variable directly while it > > should be using the corresponding method. No idea why this is > > the case but it should be easy to fix. > > > > > Am 25.03.2024 um 04:07 schrieb Boris D. > <mailto:bor...@gmx.com>>: > > > > > > Hello, > > > Trying to build the latest release of Gorm > > (gorm-1.3.1.tar.gz) on Ubuntu > > > 22.04 results in the following error: > > > > > > Making all for app Gorm... > > > Creating Gorm.app/ > > > Compiling file Gorm.m ... > > > Compiling file main.m ... > > > Linking app Gorm ... > > > GormCore/./obj/libGormCore.so: error: undefined reference to > > > '__objc_ivar_offset_NSMatrix._selectedCells.^^C' > > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory Casamento > > GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant > > http://www.gnustep.org <http://www.gnustep.org> - > > http://heronsperch.blogspot.com <http://heronsperch.blogspot.com> > > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 > > <https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392> - Become a Patron > > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c > > <https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c> - OpenHub standings >
Re: Gorm build error
I have added some changes to address this.I still need the information that I asked for to be fully sure that this will address your issue or that you are using a valid configuration. Please give it a try and let us know. Thanks, GC On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 8:05 AM Gregory Casamento wrote: > Hey, > > This appears to be coming from GormResourceEditor which derives from > GormGenericEditor which derives from NSMatrix. > > _selectedCells is a non-private ivar of NSMatrix so it should be okay for > it to be accessed directly by a subclass. Additionally, this builds > properly both with clang and GCC on Debian. > > I am looking into this. Could you give any additional information about > which version of the base and gui library you’re using? > > Thanks, > Gregory Casamento > GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant > http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings > > > On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 03:07 Fred Kiefer wrote: > >> Looks like Gorm is using the instance variable directly while it should >> be using the corresponding method. No idea why this is the case but it >> should be easy to fix. >> >> > Am 25.03.2024 um 04:07 schrieb Boris D. : >> > >> > Hello, >> > Trying to build the latest release of Gorm (gorm-1.3.1.tar.gz) on Ubuntu >> > 22.04 results in the following error: >> > >> > Making all for app Gorm... >> > Creating Gorm.app/ >> > Compiling file Gorm.m ... >> > Compiling file main.m ... >> > Linking app Gorm ... >> > GormCore/./obj/libGormCore.so: error: undefined reference to >> > '__objc_ivar_offset_NSMatrix._selectedCells.^^C' >> > >> > Any suggestions? >> > >> > >> >> >> -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Gorm build error
Hey, This appears to be coming from GormResourceEditor which derives from GormGenericEditor which derives from NSMatrix. _selectedCells is a non-private ivar of NSMatrix so it should be okay for it to be accessed directly by a subclass. Additionally, this builds properly both with clang and GCC on Debian. I am looking into this. Could you give any additional information about which version of the base and gui library you’re using? Thanks, Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 03:07 Fred Kiefer wrote: > Looks like Gorm is using the instance variable directly while it should be > using the corresponding method. No idea why this is the case but it should > be easy to fix. > > > Am 25.03.2024 um 04:07 schrieb Boris D. : > > > > Hello, > > Trying to build the latest release of Gorm (gorm-1.3.1.tar.gz) on Ubuntu > > 22.04 results in the following error: > > > > Making all for app Gorm... > > Creating Gorm.app/ > > Compiling file Gorm.m ... > > Compiling file main.m ... > > Linking app Gorm ... > > GormCore/./obj/libGormCore.so: error: undefined reference to > > '__objc_ivar_offset_NSMatrix._selectedCells.^^C' > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > > >
Re: Change of scope for Cacao Linux effort
Thank you for your support! Much appreciated On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 11:22 PM Daniel Boyd wrote: > Donated. Can’t afford much at the moment unfortunately, but definitely a > worthy cause! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 19, 2024, at 20:50, Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > > All, > > After some discussion with some other members of the community I am > shifting the focus of this effort. > > It is better to focus on two major things: > > * compatibility with current APIs in the latest macOS > * a repository that contains official packages that can be overlayed on a > number of different distributions > > Finally doing both of these things will make creating a distribution on > top of Debian Linux or any other rather simple. > > To do this I need your contribution and help. Please do what you can to > help. The go fund me is here: > > https://gofund.me/38b70a99 > > I’m trying to turn this unintentional downtime into a positive thing for > the project. The only thing the money will go to is keeping the lights, > water and the internet working so I can keep cranking out code. :) > > Your contributions are very much appreciated. > > Yours, > Gregory Casamento > GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant > http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com > https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron > https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Change of scope for Cacao Linux effort
All, After some discussion with some other members of the community I am shifting the focus of this effort. It is better to focus on two major things: * compatibility with current APIs in the latest macOS * a repository that contains official packages that can be overlayed on a number of different distributions Finally doing both of these things will make creating a distribution on top of Debian Linux or any other rather simple. To do this I need your contribution and help. Please do what you can to help. The go fund me is here: https://gofund.me/38b70a99 I’m trying to turn this unintentional downtime into a positive thing for the project. The only thing the money will go to is keeping the lights, water and the internet working so I can keep cranking out code. :) Your contributions are very much appreciated. Yours, Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: GNUstep blogs update
Riccardo, Just chiming in here briefly... On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 8:07 AM Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi, > > Svetlana Tkachenko wrote: > > Archive: > > https://web.archive.org/web/20180318120215/http://gnustep.blogspot.com/ > > > > Older posts link is broken, but the ones in sidebar half-work. > > pointing to an archived blog is defying the goal of a blog, IMHO... Agreed... except if there is some specific precious information, in which case we > should salvage it by other means. > We may want to have a section in there for "defunct" or archived blogs. This way the user knows they are no longer active. Riccardo > GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org <https://mailtrack.io/l/cb73cfa008ab1390d5697617398936ee70e7b59a?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gnustep.org&u=2790543&signature=3c203eaf7befab05> - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com <https://mailtrack.io/l/9099e72cbeb97299d51b1d541d47a8fa7cececcd?url=http%3A%2F%2Fheronsperch.blogspot.com&u=2790543&signature=600d21c66ccc3c10> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 <https://mailtrack.io/l/e84234c3fa170e009044d48184ec235ecc3f1164?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2FbePatron%3Fu%3D352392&u=2790543&signature=977972b365347f8b> - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c <https://mailtrack.io/l/d29b7159d63ec2fef845d11ba2d9ed5bed52b6e6?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openhub.net%2Flanguages%2Fobjective_c&u=2790543&signature=09927d9745e8643e> - OpenHub standings
Cacao Linux GoFundMe...
Hey guys. I have set up a gofundme. It's to help create the reference distribution we have been discussing. As many of you are aware Keysight had some layoffs in January and my last day there was January 31st, 2024. In addition to looking for work/new contracts, I am doing this so that I can use this time (between engagements) to accomplish this goal as well as just to keep the lights on. :( If you guys can help, please donate here: https://gofund.me/6efe6d86 <https://mailtrack.io/l/ac739fe4a9e0914df59c5b454361c040c0ea9696?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgofund.me%2F6efe6d86&u=2790543&signature=9d4a40e8a1ece0d6> I was trying to avoid doing this, but given the current market things are pretty rough out there. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / Black Lotus, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org <https://mailtrack.io/l/e38312edbe072fd8a9b26d0b27ad8ea95230fcee?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gnustep.org&u=2790543&signature=7c5635fdf6b5dbe6> - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com <https://mailtrack.io/l/3ec2aa9c3470867ef50b49792af31dec4c0c5c4c?url=http%3A%2F%2Fheronsperch.blogspot.com&u=2790543&signature=a5742acf20f365bc> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 <https://mailtrack.io/l/2c3b7635cce59c170beb91b09ef736f6f44cce9f?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2FbePatron%3Fu%3D352392&u=2790543&signature=35df610d832184a9> - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c <https://mailtrack.io/l/b52f669bcd814fac11914f8cdd8c38ba1084ecad?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openhub.net%2Flanguages%2Fobjective_c&u=2790543&signature=d389d7ae34a093a8> - OpenHub standings
Re: WebSite: Nicola's content
Riccardo, Congratulations on getting this back up on the website. The only concern I have is that this is misleading to many readers and people trying to get into using GNUstep. You may note that the tutorials make NO mention of Gorm at all. Given that Renaissance is NOT very widely used these tutorials are going to give the impression that it is the main way to make a gui project. We need to be careful to make tutorials so that they reflect how to build an application with GNUstep how we currently do it. It might be useful to mark these are historical or to make sure that the user knows that these tutorials do not reflect the current state of the project. Additionally, concerning the discussion about the organization of the website... when coming to the website there is no clear way to download the libraries and applications. To do that you need to drill down through a couple of pages and these are not clearly labeled. When people visit a website, they will immediately look for certain things. We are not making those things apparent on our website. GC On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 7:27 PM Svetlana Tkachenko wrote: > Many thanks Riccardo, this looks awesome to have these tutorials back > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Audio and Midi with GNUstep on Linux
Wow. This looks amazing!! Very cool! Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 09:56 i...@mclarenlabs.com wrote: > We've released the alpha version of our ALSA Sound Kit and McLaren Synth > Kit along with some demonstration programs. The first library enables > Audio and MIDI access on Linux, and the second provides a graph-based audio > processing toolkit. Units like oscillators, envelopes, filters and reverb > are the elements from which notes may be built. > > Our goal was to make experimenting with Audio and MIDI easy and fun using > GNUstep on Linux. > > One of the more interesting demos involves tying audio and MIDI objects > together with StepTalk. An eventual goal is producing a more full-featured > audio/midi toolbox with StepTalk as its scripting language. Take a look > here and try it out some of the demos if interested. > > https://github.com/mclarenlabs/libs-mclaren-alpha > > And read about the software design here > > https://mclarenlabs.github.io/libs-mclaren-alpha/ > > I'm interested in feedback too, especially on how building and installing > goes. > > The project is a little light on visualizualitions and GUI elements, but > the audio machinery is fairly robust, IMO. > > Cheers > Tom > > >
Re: Thoughts about our website
I think the fewer clicks the user needs to do the better. The information should be readily accessible without having to go through layers of pages to find it. While this is intuitive to us since we are all used to the website I think that many people are frustrated as evidenced by reviews we have received in the past. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 20:03 wrote: > Hi dear GNUsteppers, > > > I lately came across a website which impressed me by its usefulness and > simplicity: > > https://www.qemu.org > > > It impressed me with its clearness and to the point information: you can > see everything important at a glance: > > On the top there are the most important links (Download, Support, > Contribute, Docs, Wiki, Blog), followed by a big logo and title as well as > a one sentence description of the project. > > Then follows a section of three Screenshots, which each show a certain > aspect of QEMU in detail. > > And finally there is a section "Latest releases“ at the bottom, showing > the latest available releases. > > > This is all visible at first glance right on the homepage, which is > important today in the times of short attention spans. Of course there are > links to more detailed information on subpages. > > > I propose now that we learn from the concepts and ideas of QEMU’s website. > > > We could, for instance reduce the copy text on the homepage to just: > > > GNUstep is a [free software](-> Link to fsf.org or gnu.org) > implementation of [Apple’s Cocoa Frameworks](-> Link to Cocoa Documentation > at Apple) (formerly [NeXT's OpenStep](-> Link to > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep )) for [Application > Development](-> Link to Developer subpage at gnustep.org). > > GNUstep can be used to create a desktop environment. (Here we could place > a link to a reference implementation) > > GNUstep is not Window Maker and [Window Maker is not GNUstep](-> Link to > https://www.windowmaker.org/docs/wings.html ). > > > Then I would propose to follow the Concept of the QEMU homepage closely: > > show three recent screenshots, ideally with theming running on various > OSes including Windows. Short explanation of what it shows below. > > > All this followed by I recent releases section and at the very bottom the > legal stuff like imprint, link to bug reporter and such stuff. > > > This is just my proposal, I am open for discussion, so let’s discuss this > (also since we are on discuss-gnustep@gnu.org here). The more involvement > the better, I am not saying my ideas are perfect or such, I post those to > get the ball rolling towards a better GNUstep Homepage! > > > Kind regards, > > Lars >
Re: Bi-monthly GNUstep Meeting this Saturday?
Lars, We should have the meeting. I've spoken to Riccardo and he may not be able to make it due to other commitments, but I would still like to have it. Yours, GC On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 5:38 PM lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de < lars.sonchocky-helld...@hamburg.de> wrote: > Hi everybody, > > my calendar says that our bi-monthly GNUstep Video Call is up this > Saturday (10.02.2024) at 18:30 MET / 17:30 GMT / 12:30 ET / 9:30 PT: > > https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably > > Will we hold the meeting this time or will we skip it again? > > > Kind regards, > > Lars > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
GNUstep bi-monthly Meeting Reminder...
The meeting is on the 10th which is this saturday. Here is the link: https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably <https://mailtrack.io/l/d6bfe97de195c12a720014f8cc8f1f87cd89a2ef?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fq%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fmeet.jit.si%2FTheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably%26sa%3DD%26source%3Dcalendar%26usd%3D2%26usg%3DAOvVaw2ONvjmJp88UwdECLoGAHjp&u=2790543&signature=407e28aa5c98bca7> The meeting is open to everyone. Please feel free to attend. It starts at 12:30EST and goes to 2:30PM EST. This is an informal meeting, though we may discuss some important topics. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org <https://mailtrack.io/l/3d2ec38ac5d9e1cafa4405ce1c82e75e6eaf48fa?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gnustep.org&u=2790543&signature=bc1779f788dc2b89> - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com <https://mailtrack.io/l/0dc2a43a697d3a89760e93ba16e8a9d4497d9546?url=http%3A%2F%2Fheronsperch.blogspot.com&u=2790543&signature=88ebc8e33f29e2f1> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 <https://mailtrack.io/l/e8aae707b8e1fd15d3eac311ad4f70c21cc80bfb?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.patreon.com%2FbePatron%3Fu%3D352392&u=2790543&signature=d15f3db9dd00d709> - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c <https://mailtrack.io/l/2431292239776c2c54ae368b59e100f606c27553?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openhub.net%2Flanguages%2Fobjective_c&u=2790543&signature=ab83933f6c126a3c> - OpenHub standings
Re: Installing GNUstep from FreeBSD ports, some more problems...
Edwin, NSCollectionViewLayout.h and its associated layout classes were not in gui-0_30_0. I'm confused as to why it's having an issue building docs. Are you certain you don't have a different version of gnustep-make installed? Yours, GC On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 3:15 PM Edwin Ancaer wrote: > Hello, > > can I bore you some more with my GNUstep on FreeBD adventures? > I noticed my FreeBSD version was out of support, so I freshly installed > FreeBSD 14.0. That made the situation a lot better. The GNUstep ports > worked, but the versions of gnustep-make, gnustep-libs and gnustep-back > were not the latest. GNUstep-base was up-to-date. > > So, i did some updates to get the newest version in the Makefiles of the 3 > ports that were out-of-date. > > Gnustep-Make build with the latest version, GNUstep-Base in FreeBSD 14.0 > is already at 1.29.0 so I started trying to build version 0.30.0. I just > had to update the release number, and do some messing with the MASTERSITES > variable to get the tarball from git, > > But on make install, I got the following error: > > make -C ../Source -f DocMakefile > gmake[4]: Entering directory > '/usr/ports/x11-toolkits/gnustep-gui/work/libs-gui-gui-0_30_0/Source' > cp ../Documentation/Gui.gsdoc . > cp ../Documentation/GuiAdditions.gsdoc . > Making all for doc Gui... > *gmake[5]: *** No rule to make target > '../Headers/AppKit/NSCollectionViewLayout.h', needed by > 'Gui/dependencies'. Stop.* > gmake[4]: *** > [/usr/local/GNUstep/System/Library/Makefiles/Master/rules.make:297: > Gui.all.doc.variables] Error 2 > > (the problem is in the a file Gui/dependencies > NSTreeNode.m \ > ../Headers/AppKit/NSAnimationContext.h \ > ../Headers/AppKit/NSCollectionViewLayout.h \ > ../Headers/AppKit/NSWorkspace.h \ > ../Headers/AppKit/NSButtonCell.h \ > ../Headers/AppKit/NSUserDefaultsController.h \ > mentioning a dependency of NSTreeNode.m on NSCollectionViewLayout.h. > > I have to admit that the file NSCollectionViewLayout.h is not in the > Headers files I downloaded with the ports Makefile > > edwin@ottopedi > /usr/ports/x11-toolkits/gnustep-gui/work/libs-gui-gui-0_30_0/Headers/AppKit]$ > ls -al NSCollection* > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 5025 Dec 29 2022 NSCollectionView.h > -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 1968 Dec 29 2022 NSCollectionViewItem.h > > But I see that same file in Github. Is it possible there is a problem in > creating the tarball file for the release-version of GNUstep libs-gui? > As an extra check I manually downloaded the tarball from > https://github.com/gnustep/libs-gui/releases/download/gui-0_30_0/gnustep-gui-0.30.0.tar.gz, > and there, the file NSCollectionViewLayout.h. is not present either. > > I git clone of the repository, and there, the missing file (along with > some others, was present: > > [edwin@ottopedi ~/GNUstep-Gui-clone/libs-gui/Headers/AppKit]$ ls -al > NSCollection* > -rw-r--r-- 1 edwin edwin 23550 Jan 23 21:07 NSCollectionView.h > -rw-r--r-- 1 edwin edwin 1510 Jan 23 21:07 > NSCollectionViewCompositionalLayout.h > -rw-r--r-- 1 edwin edwin 5146 Jan 23 21:07 NSCollectionViewFlowLayout.h > -rw-r--r-- 1 edwin edwin 2198 Jan 23 21:07 NSCollectionViewGridLayout.h > -rw-r--r-- 1 edwin edwin 1996 Jan 23 21:07 NSCollectionViewItem.h > -rw-r--r-- 1 edwin edwin 9808 Jan 23 21:07 NSCollectionViewLayout.h > -rw-r--r-- 1 edwin edwin 2228 Jan 23 21:07 > NSCollectionViewTransitionLayout.h > > Any help is welcome... > > Edwin Ancaer > > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Images disappear after Display Resolution Change
Would it be possible for you to file a bug for this on GitHub? The proper place is https://github.org/gnustep/libs-gui under the “Issues” tab. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 15:58 Paulo Delgado wrote: > I noticed something similar happened to me on a clean Debian installation > whenever the computer came back from sleep. Images and icons were all gone, > also wallpaper (which gworkspace manages in my installation). > > > PD > > > On Dec 29, 2023, at 1:52 PM, Ondrej Florian wrote: > > > > This also happens (sometimes) when you attach external display. > > It is certainly related to change of display resolution and easily > reproducible by invoking xrandr. > > > > I guess that GNUstep is caching some kind of data that needs to be > invalidated. > > > > > >> On 2023-12-28 14:25:21 +0100 Sebastian Reitenbach < > sebas...@l00-bugdead-prods.de> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 19:52 CET, Tom Sheffler > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I’ve recently installed gs-desktop (from > github.com/onflapp/gs-desktop/ > >>> <http://github.com/onflapp/gs-desktop/>) on Debian 12 into a clean > >>> partition in a System76 laptop. It all works very nicely as a desktop > >>> environment. > >> > >>> I have noticed an annoying problem when I change resolutions - I seem > to do > >>> this often: when I plug in an external monitor I size things one way, > and > >>> when not connected I size the display another way. I’ve investigated > the > >>> problem, and do not have a good fix. I’m hoping that by sharing my > >>> experience here someone might be able to shed some light on the > subject. > >> > >> > >>> Upon resizing the main screen, icons and images disappear. The > commands I > >>> use are > >> > >>>- xrandr —output eDP-1 —mode 1400x1050 > >>>- xrandr —output eDP-1 —mode 1600x900 > >> > >>> After changing resolutions, images and icons in the following apps have > >>> been seen to dissappear > >>> - GWorkspace > >>> - Gorm > >>> - nextspace/Preferences > >>> - gs-desktop/Applications/VolMon > >>> - gs-desktop/Applications/MountUp > >> > >>> The picture below shows two versions of GWorkspace FileViewer. The > one on > >>> top is GWorkspace installed “as-is” and shown after changing the > >>> resolution of the display. The large icons and the small icons are all > >>> gone. They do not reappear after any amount of fiddling with controls > or > >>> themes I attempt. > >> > >>> The bottom FileViewer is a modified copy of GWorkspace that has been > >>> changed to add a new menu item called “Redraw” that does a couple of > >>> things. It deletes image caches in various places and then calls > [NSApp > >>> updateWindows]. This does not immediately fix the images, but after > >>> scolling around the images get refreshed as the caches are rebuilt. > >>> The two “DIFF” files attached in this message show what code > >>> modifications I made to support the “Redraw” menu item. > >> > >>> While clearing the caches helps fix the problem, I don’t really believe > >>> I’m on totally the right track for a permanent fix across applications. > >>> So I’m looking for suggestions or other insights. Or at least that > this > >>> info helps someone else one day. > >> > >>> === > >> > >>> I”ve also investigated an entirely different track, changing the > >>> following line in NSImage.m > >>> _cacheMode = NSImageCacheDefault; > >>> to > >>> _cacheMode = NSImageCacheNever; > >> > >>> and rebuilding. In GWorkspace, this fixes the Large icons, but breaks > the > >>> Small icons. It does, however, also fix the module images in the > >>> Nextspace/Preferences app so that they do not disappear upon resolution > >>> changes. > >> > >>> Thanks, > >>> T > >> > >> just recently, a few weeks ago, I exchanged my desktops Nvidia card, > with 2 > >> monitors (2xHD), with a AMD based graphics car, and a single monitor > UWQHD. > >> I'm on OpenBSD, using latest gnustep releases, and after suspend/resume > >> cycle, I see the same. > >> Haven't had time to dig into it, thought might be because of graphics > GPU > >> driver change, or resolution change etc. > >> But it's only GNUstep applications that loose the images, most notably > >> GWorkspace. > >> > >> Sebastian > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >
Holiday Message
Hello All, I know it’s a day or so late but I wanted to just tell you all how important you all are to this community and how privileged and humbled I am to be a member of it. I hope you all have had and will have a happy holiday season. Yours always, GC Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
libs-xcode now adds includes/libs from workspace (cocoapods compatibility)
Hey guys, I have been trying to fix the case where workspaces have interdependencies. I just committed some changes to libs-xcode to address this. Incidentally, this should address issues when working with cocoapods and carthage, two popular dependency management tools for iOS and macOS (more so for iOS, but still for some macOS projects it is useful). Anyway, it is still in the experimental stages, so... play with it and let me know if you see any issues. One issue I should point out is that cocoapods has a script it executes in the script phase that works on macOS but is not compatible with other systems and that script fails, but it does not fail the build. So, that is an issue on their side (as I see it). Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Documentation updated...
I have updated the documentation for Base, BaseAdditions, Gui, GuiAdditions on the site. You might have clear your cache to see the updates (I did, since they are static and likely cached). To view the documentation go to the site, click on "For Developers" and you should see "Documentation" in the drop down menu. From there you should be able to see the documentation available. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
I completely understand. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 16:10 bruce wrote: > You are misunderstanding my point. I have stock and deep connections at > microsoft. I don't want to mess anything up for anyone. If you were making > your own windows on windows, I don't want to see the code, remark that it > should work this way Low probability of anything ever happening, but > risk nonetheless. For both sides. > > When I left my employer and talked to a lawyer, he said that the ndas > lasts as long as the revenue, and beware, loose lips sink ships. My family > benefits from that revenue. > > btw - I also wait for the walk signal, I've never been oppressed, and have > no problem with the nda. I was well paid, put the kids through school, and > paid all their medical expenses. > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 8:45 PM Gregory Casamento < > greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> How would using any operating system you like let them down? Or even >> using whatever api? I imagine it has something to do with GNUstep having >> some connection with Apple, right? >> >> Look at it this way. GNUstep is trying to free the masses from the >> tyranny of our Jobsian oppressors. Does that help? ;) >> >> Gregory Casamento >> GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant >> http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com >> https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron >> https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 10:18 bruce wrote: >> >>> No, they are fine with Linux . It's more about not letting them down. >>> Family comes first >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023, 6:45 AM Gregory Casamento < >>> greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Bruce, >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 9:34 AM bruce >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd always assumed that gnustep used its own gui across systems. But >>>>> if you're using native controls on windows, my 'nda anxiety' is low. >>>>> Nothing I say about linux gui affects windows. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Assumption is the true enemy of understanding. :) Don't ask me where I >>>> got that quote from, I don't remember. You can either use >>>> GNUstep's own GUI or WinUXTheme (which uses native widgets) on Windows. >>>> The theme uses WinUXTheme.dll on Windows to interface with the native >>>> theming framework. >>>> >>>> You may think I'm overly paranoid about it. I don't work there anymore, >>>>> and I don't use windows anymore, but friends and family still work there, >>>>> so microsoft *is* family. I have to look them in the eye here in a few >>>>> days. >>>>> >>>> >>>> And they would have a problem with you exploring other things within >>>> your chosen profession? Windows does not comprise the entire computing >>>> ecosystem. It may be so on the common user's desktop, but not in the >>>> industry as a whole. Linux rules the server space in spite of what >>>> Microsoft might want you to believe. >>>> >>>> Speaking of which, tomorrow is Yule. After the new year I'll make a >>>>> clean repro and file a bug in github. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Sweet, I am looking forward to that. Also... just so you know, myself >>>> and Riccardo tried using XFCE with GNUstep and found a couple of >>>> interesting issues, but were not able to reproduce the artifacts you saw. >>>> Sometime between now and the end of the year I am going to give helloSystem >>>> a shot and see if I can make any sense of what you saw on there and if so, >>>> maybe we can address some of the issues you're experiencing. >>>> >>>> Yours, GC >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 5:40 PM Gregory Casamento < >>>>> greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Bruce, >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:47 AM bruce >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>&g
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
How would using any operating system you like let them down? Or even using whatever api? I imagine it has something to do with GNUstep having some connection with Apple, right? Look at it this way. GNUstep is trying to free the masses from the tyranny of our Jobsian oppressors. Does that help? ;) Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 10:18 bruce wrote: > No, they are fine with Linux . It's more about not letting them down. > Family comes first > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2023, 6:45 AM Gregory Casamento > wrote: > >> Bruce, >> >> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 9:34 AM bruce >> wrote: >> >>> I'd always assumed that gnustep used its own gui across systems. But if >>> you're using native controls on windows, my 'nda anxiety' is low. Nothing I >>> say about linux gui affects windows. >>> >> >> Assumption is the true enemy of understanding. :) Don't ask me where I >> got that quote from, I don't remember. You can either use >> GNUstep's own GUI or WinUXTheme (which uses native widgets) on Windows. >> The theme uses WinUXTheme.dll on Windows to interface with the native >> theming framework. >> >> You may think I'm overly paranoid about it. I don't work there anymore, >>> and I don't use windows anymore, but friends and family still work there, >>> so microsoft *is* family. I have to look them in the eye here in a few days. >>> >> >> And they would have a problem with you exploring other things within your >> chosen profession? Windows does not comprise the entire computing >> ecosystem. It may be so on the common user's desktop, but not in the >> industry as a whole. Linux rules the server space in spite of what >> Microsoft might want you to believe. >> >> Speaking of which, tomorrow is Yule. After the new year I'll make a clean >>> repro and file a bug in github. >>> >> >> Sweet, I am looking forward to that. Also... just so you know, myself >> and Riccardo tried using XFCE with GNUstep and found a couple of >> interesting issues, but were not able to reproduce the artifacts you saw. >> Sometime between now and the end of the year I am going to give helloSystem >> a shot and see if I can make any sense of what you saw on there and if so, >> maybe we can address some of the issues you're experiencing. >> >> Yours, GC >> >> >> >>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 5:40 PM Gregory Casamento < >>> greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Bruce, >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:47 AM bruce >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Riccardo, I can agree with everything you say. I’ve looked at pictures >>>>> of gnustep running on mac and windows, and it looks sleek and modern, and >>>>> native. >>>>> >>>>> My experience on unix like does not track with that. It looks >>>>> brutalistic. Not native - it never fits in the desktop. What I hear from >>>>> most people that have tried it is “the 90’s are calling, they want their >>>>> desktop back”. I see a big disconnect between the way gnustep looks on >>>>> mac/windows, and the way it looks on linux/freebsd. >>>>> >>>> >>>> This is, unfortunately, true. GNUstep is using native widgets on >>>> Windows, so it is very likely to look better on that platform. I, >>>> personally, don't mind the 90's look, but then again I have a NeXTstation >>>> to my left, so maybe I am not one to provide an unbiased opinion. >>>> >>>> Yes, these are all aesthetic value judgements. But aesthetics matter - >>>>> ask any mac user. I can see if you’re using a business app, ok. But for >>>>> other users, it is often a non-starter. >>>>> >>>>> My experience has been: >>>>> >>>>>- >>>>> >>>>>Wow this is cool >>>>>- >>>>> >>>>>Wow this has got a lot of gui glitches >>>>> >>>>> >>>> WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>- >>>>> >>>>>Wow this
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
Bruce, On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 9:34 AM bruce wrote: > I'd always assumed that gnustep used its own gui across systems. But if > you're using native controls on windows, my 'nda anxiety' is low. Nothing I > say about linux gui affects windows. > Assumption is the true enemy of understanding. :) Don't ask me where I got that quote from, I don't remember. You can either use GNUstep's own GUI or WinUXTheme (which uses native widgets) on Windows. The theme uses WinUXTheme.dll on Windows to interface with the native theming framework. You may think I'm overly paranoid about it. I don't work there anymore, and > I don't use windows anymore, but friends and family still work there, so > microsoft *is* family. I have to look them in the eye here in a few days. > And they would have a problem with you exploring other things within your chosen profession? Windows does not comprise the entire computing ecosystem. It may be so on the common user's desktop, but not in the industry as a whole. Linux rules the server space in spite of what Microsoft might want you to believe. Speaking of which, tomorrow is Yule. After the new year I'll make a clean > repro and file a bug in github. > Sweet, I am looking forward to that. Also... just so you know, myself and Riccardo tried using XFCE with GNUstep and found a couple of interesting issues, but were not able to reproduce the artifacts you saw. Sometime between now and the end of the year I am going to give helloSystem a shot and see if I can make any sense of what you saw on there and if so, maybe we can address some of the issues you're experiencing. Yours, GC > On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 5:40 PM Gregory Casamento < > greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Bruce, >> >> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:47 AM bruce >> wrote: >> >>> Riccardo, I can agree with everything you say. I’ve looked at pictures >>> of gnustep running on mac and windows, and it looks sleek and modern, and >>> native. >>> >>> My experience on unix like does not track with that. It looks >>> brutalistic. Not native - it never fits in the desktop. What I hear from >>> most people that have tried it is “the 90’s are calling, they want their >>> desktop back”. I see a big disconnect between the way gnustep looks on >>> mac/windows, and the way it looks on linux/freebsd. >>> >> >> This is, unfortunately, true. GNUstep is using native widgets on >> Windows, so it is very likely to look better on that platform. I, >> personally, don't mind the 90's look, but then again I have a NeXTstation >> to my left, so maybe I am not one to provide an unbiased opinion. >> >> Yes, these are all aesthetic value judgements. But aesthetics matter - >>> ask any mac user. I can see if you’re using a business app, ok. But for >>> other users, it is often a non-starter. >>> >>> My experience has been: >>> >>>- >>> >>>Wow this is cool >>>- >>> >>>Wow this has got a lot of gui glitches >>> >>> >> WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. >> >> >>> >>>- >>> >>>Wow this looks old >>>- >>> >>>Wow this is hard to use >>> >>> >> WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. >> >> >>> >>>- >>> >>>Install something else >>> >>> >>> But I like the language. I’ve been coding c for 40 years, and objc is >>> awesome. I want to code the version with features like arc. Fortunately, >>> the freebsd repo has that version. But the linux repos don’t. That >>> complicates targeting any app. And I want people to use my app. But >>> computer users see these gui issues, and say the app is buggy. I say it’s >>> not my app, it’s the way it presents on your os. So they use another app. >>> So much for platform agnostic. So much for marketability. >>> >> >> GNUstep is platform agnostic from the sense that it is flexible enough to >> be made to blend in should the developer wish to make that happen. The >> community can't take all of the responsibility for making YOUR app fit in >> everywhere. Also, it is difficult when we are only a few people working on >> a large project such as this. The point is... help us, I know you have >> told me privately why you feel as though you can't contribute directly, but >> writing bug reports or even feature requests on github is something you CAN >>
Going to update the documentation on the website...
I think the documentation needs to be refreshed. If one of you is going to do this let me know. Otherwise, I would like to go ahead and do this if needed. Just let me know... Also, I think we should do this for every single release. Our documentation on the site is a bit out of date. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
ow some might get the wrong impression about what GNUstep > is and can do based on the NeXTSTEP look and feel. > > > > The theme I am designing is based entirely on vector drawing, to take > full advantage of modern high dpi displays, and show off what a fully > native GNUstep environment is actually capable of being. That’s a lot of > work, but it’s work that is being done. > > > >> Additionally, Mr. Cardoza, who wrote earlier in this list. Thought as > you do about the theming stuff and I helped him with understanding what > could be done by pointing him to the code. He contributed code to handle > the menu padding (PRECISELY THE ISSUE YOU POINTED OUT) to GSTheme about two > months ago. > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings [image: Mailtrack] <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> Sender notified by Mailtrack <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> 12/20/23, 08:07:09 AM
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
Albert,
Also, as an aside... I work for Eggplant/Keysight now and I helped
Algorridim get their dJay software working on their platform. So, yes,
those are 100% legitimate references.
GC
On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 4:07 PM Gregory Casamento
wrote:
> Albert,
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 12:23 PM Albert Palacios
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have tried to develop a 'modern' looking theme for GNUstep, but I
>> always end up 'overwriting' base functions in ridiculous ways and finding
>> obstacles that discourage me.
>>
>
> This is our fault because our documentation has been woefully out of date
> due to issues with autogsdoc (our tool for documentation generation).
> Also, the documentation is kind of in an obscure place, so it's no wonder
> you missed it. For future reference it is here...
>
> https://gnustep.github.io/developers/documentation.html
>
> That documentation is a bit old, but it is better than what you have now.
> ;) Which is nothing at all.
>
>
>> Especially because I think that when changes are made to the original
>> code, the theme will fail.
>>
>
> Overriding or category-smashing the code is the absolute worst way. We
> have created a class called GSTheme to which all GUI objects delegate their
> drawing functions. This class can be loaded at runtime so as to allow the
> GUI to assume a different theme. Since it is done using a bundle and the
> way it is done is by delegating to the GSTheme class it doesn't break the
> existing code.
>
>
>> The themes only work if they are pixel-based and do not change the
>> spacing or positioning of the elements, meaning you have a 90s application
>> with condensed elements and background textures, whereas now the trend is
>> towards spaced elements, flat colors, rounded contours, and transparencies
>> (yes, I know that for transparency you need a suitable compositor...).
>>
>>
> Not true. The Windows theme and native GTK theme are both code-based
> which use the native widgets of the OS. As are several other themes that
> are available. They are not restricted to just pixel-based themes.
>
> Additionally, Mr. Cardoza, who wrote earlier in this list. Thought as you
> do about the theming stuff and I helped him with understanding what could
> be done by pointing him to the code. He contributed code to handle the
> menu padding (PRECISELY THE ISSUE YOU POINTED OUT) to GSTheme about two
> months ago.
>
>
>> For example, I have never managed to add more 'padding' to the menus. The
>> photo of Agora Desktop a bit further up is completely unrealistic with the
>> current GNUStep code. The only way to change the menu items padding
>> is overwriting the original functions:
>>
>> #import "GV+NSMenuItemCell.h"
>> #import "GVTheme.h"
>>
>> @interface NSMenuItemCell (GVThemePrivate)
>> - (NSSize)_sizeKeyEquivalentText:(NSString *)text;
>> - (NSString *)_keyEquivalentString;
>> @end
>>
>> @implementation NSMenuItemCell (GVTheme)
>>
>> - (void) calcSize
>> { // … original code ...
>> // Change width
>> _titleWidth = _titleWidth + 50;
>>
>> // TODO How to change height ???
>> }
>>
>> @end
>>
>>
> This is an example of what I mentioned earlier (category smashing). You
> don't need to do this. You should be able to find what you need in the
> GSTheme class.
>
>
>> You can look at the code I've worked with here, although it's probably
>> completely wrong due to lack of documentation.
>>
>> https://github.com/optimisme/GNUStep-Theme
>>
>> This is not an attack, I really would like to contribute, at least to
>> modernize the appearance of GNUStep and/or improve the website (which is
>> another huge disaster).
>>
>
> Nor it is being taken as one. Just don't interpret frank responses as any
> sort of an attack on you. None is meant. I agree that the website needs
> some updating.
>
> But seeing your attitude, the main developers, who always vehemently
>> defend your opinions, I think it's not really worth it.
>>
>
> See this is the kind of thing I hate. Someone comes with a stupid
> suggestion like
>
> 1) It's ugly
> 2) Use GTK
> 3) Abandon all of your work and just re-write it...
> 4) You guys suck
>
> ... and when we give them sane feedback it is seen as "vehemently defend
> your opinions" when all we are trying to do is give friendly feedback and
> guidance to people who are not doing things properly. Again, that is our
> fault, since we don't
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
is what it is. GSTheme draws it when no other theme is available. * GNUstep IS customizable, but it is not well documented... so the reason you don't see a lot of themes is because as you demonstrated no one knows how to write them. * The reason you get the responses you do is because the people in the project have a much different experience than you do because we know the project better. This needs to change. A few things need to be done: * The website needs to be improved. * Documentation needs to be more readily available to users. * GNUstep needs to make a desktop distribution. (this is something we are working on) It would be less ridiculous if you stopped saying that GNUStep is beautiful > and customizable, because it's not. If it were, there would be more updated > themes and applications. Maybe even a desktop. > It is customizable, as pointed out above and on that second thing... well, you can blame ME personally for that last one I suppose. It was me who years ago decided to make GNUstep an API ONLY and NOT as desktop. This was so that we could focus on being as cross-platform as possible. Arguably we have done that. GNUstep is used by many different projects and companies (Keysight [ https://eggplant.io ], Algoriddim [ https://algoriddim.com ], etc). We are only now circling back to the idea that we need to create a reference distribution so that it will help people understand what GNUstep is truly capable of. Look, in the end, the project is yours, and I suppose it has been > profitable for you. Why argue, it's not worth it. > No one is arguing with you. This is called a discussion which is an exchange of ideas. A difference of opinion or correcting you where you are wrong does not imply an argument. If you feel as though anything I have said to you or anyone else has said to you or Bruce is wrong or confrontational or argumentative I ask that you please point it out. I will say the same thing to you that I said REPEATEDLY to Bruce: SUBMIT BUGS... IF YOU FIND SOMETHING WRONG... SUBMIT BUGS TELL US WHAT WE ARE MESSING UP ON!!! People will be GLAD to engage with you if you do this. Try it, you might learn something. :) Yours, GC > Albert > > > > El 19 des. 2023, a les 16:46, bruce va > escriure: > > Riccardo, I can agree with everything you say. I’ve looked at pictures of > gnustep running on mac and windows, and it looks sleek and modern, and > native. > > My experience on unix like does not track with that. It looks brutalistic. > Not native - it never fits in the desktop. What I hear from most people > that have tried it is “the 90’s are calling, they want their desktop back”. > I see a big disconnect between the way gnustep looks on mac/windows, and > the way it looks on linux/freebsd. > > Yes, these are all aesthetic value judgements. But aesthetics matter - ask > any mac user. I can see if you’re using a business app, ok. But for other > users, it is often a non-starter. > > My experience has been: > • Wow this is cool > • Wow this has got a lot of gui glitches > • Wow this looks old > • Wow this is hard to use > • Install something else > > But I like the language. I’ve been coding c for 40 years, and objc is > awesome. I want to code the version with features like arc. Fortunately, > the freebsd repo has that version. But the linux repos don’t. That > complicates targeting any app. And I want people to use my app. But > computer users see these gui issues, and say the app is buggy. I say it’s > not my app, it’s the way it presents on your os. So they use another app. > So much for platform agnostic. So much for marketability. > > > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 3:00 PM Riccardo Mottola < > riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: > Hi, > > bruce wrote: > > I've tried using libobjc2 with the other runtimes from the linux repo. I > > couldn't get it to work, but it sounds like other people have under > > certain circumstances. > > Building libobjc2 can be from easy, "just works" to a nightmare, > depending on a platform. > > Best, of course, is if it comes ready for your OS. > > > Hm, I'll give that a try,. > > But to build a product, I want to know that my users can install it > > without all the monkey business. Otherwise it becomes a support > nightmare. > > GCC almost always "just works" if the operating system provides it. If > you don't need Obj-C2 features for your app, it is usually a very easy > path and that's why I love it. Except FreeBSD, where you mention > working. THhere the situation is complicated, because GCC provided has > its obj-c runtime removed, supposing you to use libobjc2, which won't > work. SO I abandoned that path, but compiled libobjc2 from sources. > > Riccardo > > > -- > > Bruce Davidson > > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings [image: Mailtrack] <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> Sender notified by Mailtrack <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> 12/19/23, 03:38:45 PM
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
Bruce, On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:47 AM bruce wrote: > Riccardo, I can agree with everything you say. I’ve looked at pictures of > gnustep running on mac and windows, and it looks sleek and modern, and > native. > > My experience on unix like does not track with that. It looks brutalistic. > Not native - it never fits in the desktop. What I hear from most people > that have tried it is “the 90’s are calling, they want their desktop back”. > I see a big disconnect between the way gnustep looks on mac/windows, and > the way it looks on linux/freebsd. > This is, unfortunately, true. GNUstep is using native widgets on Windows, so it is very likely to look better on that platform. I, personally, don't mind the 90's look, but then again I have a NeXTstation to my left, so maybe I am not one to provide an unbiased opinion. Yes, these are all aesthetic value judgements. But aesthetics matter - ask > any mac user. I can see if you’re using a business app, ok. But for other > users, it is often a non-starter. > > My experience has been: > >- > >Wow this is cool >- > >Wow this has got a lot of gui glitches > > WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. > >- > >Wow this looks old >- > >Wow this is hard to use > > WRITE BUG REPORTS!!! I'm hoping that is sinking in. > >- > >Install something else > > > But I like the language. I’ve been coding c for 40 years, and objc is > awesome. I want to code the version with features like arc. Fortunately, > the freebsd repo has that version. But the linux repos don’t. That > complicates targeting any app. And I want people to use my app. But > computer users see these gui issues, and say the app is buggy. I say it’s > not my app, it’s the way it presents on your os. So they use another app. > So much for platform agnostic. So much for marketability. > GNUstep is platform agnostic from the sense that it is flexible enough to be made to blend in should the developer wish to make that happen. The community can't take all of the responsibility for making YOUR app fit in everywhere. Also, it is difficult when we are only a few people working on a large project such as this. The point is... help us, I know you have told me privately why you feel as though you can't contribute directly, but writing bug reports or even feature requests on github is something you CAN do. You can help us get there by simply reporting any issues you're seeing in the places I have asked you to do so. GC > > > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 3:00 PM Riccardo Mottola < > riccardo.mott...@libero.it> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> bruce wrote: >> > I've tried using libobjc2 with the other runtimes from the linux repo. I >> > couldn't get it to work, but it sounds like other people have under >> > certain circumstances. >> >> Building libobjc2 can be from easy, "just works" to a nightmare, >> depending on a platform. >> >> Best, of course, is if it comes ready for your OS. >> >> > Hm, I'll give that a try,. >> > But to build a product, I want to know that my users can install it >> > without all the monkey business. Otherwise it becomes a support >> nightmare. >> >> GCC almost always "just works" if the operating system provides it. If >> you don't need Obj-C2 features for your app, it is usually a very easy >> path and that's why I love it. Except FreeBSD, where you mention >> working. THhere the situation is complicated, because GCC provided has >> its obj-c runtime removed, supposing you to use libobjc2, which won't >> work. SO I abandoned that path, but compiled libobjc2 from sources. >> >> Riccardo >> > > > -- > > Bruce Davidson > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings [image: Mailtrack] <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> Sender notified by Mailtrack <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality11&;> 12/19/23, 12:35:33 PM
Cool News!!! I fixed a long standing bug in Gorm!!! XIB <-> Gorm conversion works!!!
Hey guys, I hadn't had time to sit and go over some of the issues that had been bothering me in Gorm over the last year. This weekend I resolved to find one of the bugs that had been irking me for a while... Gorm has been able to load XIB files for a while now. I recently added the ability for Gorm to SAVE XIB files from the application. One thing that bugged me though (no pun intended) is that when you load a XIB and save it as a gorm file the resulting gorm file would not load successfully. I realized that the issue was not in the saving of the gorm but in the loading of the XIB. As it turns out the loader was incorrectly using GSNibItem (a stand-in object used in gorm files) as a proxy for NSCustomObject. This is ENTIRELY incorrect and, it seems as though I had started to correct the issue way back but got distracted by work and never finished it. (story of my life) So, once I found that issue I set about correcting the problem so that it is now possible for Gorm to load a XIB and save it to a Gorm file and vice-versa. I have tested this with Xcode and the resulting XIB files work perfectly. The .gorm files work as well. It wasn't a simple fix, but it was VERY cathartic to finish this and that's why I wanted to share it with you guys. I am privileged to be a part of this community and I wanted to say how much I appreciate every single one of you. You are all excellent developers and great people. Yours very sincerely, -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
Bruce, On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 8:43 AM bruce wrote: > That's the version of Obj-C. Linux is stuck on 1.9. Obj-c 2.0 released in > 2006, as I'm sure you are aware. > I am using 2.x on my Debian Linux 12 install here, but then again I am building from source. I can use this build https://github.com/plaurent/gnustep-build to create > 2.1 on Linux. The FeeBSD is stuck at 2.0, as they no longer have a > maintainer of their gnustep port. > Understood, as you mentioned before. I am not sure what to do to remedy that situation. GC On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 1:15 PM Gregory Casamento > wrote: > >> Bruce, >> >> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 7:57 AM bruce >> wrote: >> >>> Something clicked (about 3 this morning) about version 1.9. I’ve assumed >>> this was the version in the Linux repos due to their typical bureaucracy. >>> But more research tells me that 2.1 cannot compile using gcc. I never >>> choose gcc myself. But the linux repo maintenance tools such as Launchpad >>> depend on it. So they are stuck on 1.9, which is generally referred to as >>> obsolete. It’s a reason people tell me they don’t use gnustep. So I >>> installed Ubuntu on my backup this morning, and instead of building >>> gnustep, I installed 1.9, and the artifact issue goes away. >>> >>> >> Where are you getting these version numbers from? The current releases >> of gnustep libraries are as follows: >> >> gnustep-base: 1.28.0 >> gnustep-gui: 0.30.0 >> gnustep-back: 0.30.0 >> gnustep-make: 2.9.1 >> >> I don't know what 1.9 and 2.1 are referring to. If you could clarify >> that would be immensely helpful. >> >> Now I see the problem. 1.9 works, but few people use it. I’m not going to >>> base a new project on something that is old and deprecated past >>> obsolescence. FreeBSD uses a port of 2.0. >>> >>> My renewed interest in gnustep is due to a conversation with @gcasa on >>> github. He was complaining that helloSystem didn’t consult with the gnustep >>> project. He has a point, helloSystem is a reworking of the osx style >>> desktop on freebsd. But I chimed in, and told him I didn’t think gnustep >>> was viable. He took that personally, and it was the passion of his response >>> that convinced me that gnustep was not dead. And I decided to either prove >>> he was right or wrong. Unfortunately, I still think he’s wrong. >>> >> >> It isn't, but you're going about this entirely the wrong way. I still >> KNOW that you're wrong. Again, you haven't consulted anyone, asked for ANY >> help on anything. Made assumptions and gone off in the wrong direction. >> So you have proved NOTHING. Given GNUstep's use, as I have pointed out, >> both commercially and many other places absolutely proves you incorrect. >> >> Originally, I looked at ObjFw. It uses Gtk or Qt for gui. But now I >>> understand this: >>> >>> >> Again, if you're looking for the ability to build macOS apps, ObjFw is >> NOT the way. >> >> >>> ‘It supports all modern Objective-C features when using Clang, but is >>> also compatible with GCC ≥ 4.6 to allow maximum portability.’ >>> >> >> As is GNUstep. We are a GNU project (it's in the name) we still support >> GCC. Your failure to build with GCC is also something you never talked to >> anyone about. You simply jumped to the conclusion that because you ran >> into an issue on your system, it MUST not work. Please check on GitHub we >> have CI running for every commit. It works fine with clang and gcc. Clang >> is recommended since it fully supports ObjC2.0. This is a compiler thing, >> not a framework thing. >> >> The main issue I have with ObjFw is lack of documentation. I have >>> complained about this with gnustep as well, but then I found old O’Reilly >>> books at the local thrift store that finally explained how that era of >>> Cocoa worked, and I was able to move forward on gnustep. Until I started >>> looking at more complex gui constructs, which is where it breaks down on >>> Linux/FreeBSD. >>> >>> I’m back to the thought that gnustep is dead. Maybe not on the Mac or >>> Windows. But on Linux/FreeBSD gnustep is effectively dead. And I’m back to >>> csharp. >>> >> >> Good for you, you're welcome to your own opinion even though it is wrong. >> >> As I mentioned in my previous email. All you have done here is come onto >> our forum with the SAME statements you
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
or Windows. The same >> with other desktop oriented apps, such as a shortcut editor. I haven’t used >> a Mac or Windows in 12 years since I left Microsoft. >> >> I agree that abandoning Cocoa seems wrong. But these bugs have been there >> for a decade without getting fixed, and what I’m starting to think is that >> this is just a linux issue. Until recently I had expected to hear that >> gnustep was dead. The web site is half dead links, it was offline for a >> while, and freshports shows that there is no longer a maintainer for >> FreeBSD. The version on the Linux repos is considered dead because it’s the >> old 1.9, so you have to build it manually to get the current version. Maybe >> it only makes sense for Linux devs to use gtk. Or maybe they just continue >> not using gnustep and I’m just the odd one out. >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 10:07 PM Daniel Boyd >> wrote: >> >>> Bruce, >>> >>> Have you tried >>> defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSMenuInterfaceStyle >>> NSWindows95InterfaceStyle >>> >>> That will put the menus at the top of each window. >>> >>> Abandoning cocoa doesn’t make much sense. What I think is absolutely a >>> good idea would be someone adopting the gtk theme and giving it some love. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 16, 2023, at 15:28, bruce wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Here are some examples >>> >>> >>> Notice how the scroll bar splits as well. It also happens in prepackaged >>> binary SystemPreferences.app: >>> >>> >>> You can also see how the menu collides with a linux style global menu. >>> This is on helloSystem. On GhostBSD-xfce, the scroll list artifacts are >>> less pronounced, looking more like heavy underlines, but the menu collision >>> still happens. Menu theme doesn’t align with the desktop. It’s jarring. >>> What is more jarring is the ‘blip’ I get, a small rectangle that pops up >>> momentarily, suspiciously the same size as the big icon, and then >>> disappears when the main window appears. Xfce is the only desktop >>> environment this ‘blip’ does not happen on. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 8:10 PM Gregory Casamento < >>> greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Bruce, >>>> >>>> I admit I looked at the mailing list and did see where you have made >>>> comments both recently and a couple of years back regarding certain things >>>> of interest. My apologies that you didn't get the response that you felt >>>> you needed on some of these issues... >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 2:34 PM bruce >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Gregory, respectfully, I’ve been trying gnustep for the last decade, >>>>> waiting for it to be ready, and getting frustrated. During that time I’ve >>>>> had 5 different computers, and used about 10 linux distros, and the place >>>>> I >>>>> find gnustep working tolerably is on freebsd-xfce. Not too many artifacts, >>>>> themes are working, but it still doesn’t integrate to the desktop - that’s >>>>> a design issue , and I’m not asking you to change that, just consider an >>>>> alternative. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I use GNUstep on Debian Linux at home (I have since Debian 9) and >>>> Ubuntu 16-22 at work as well as Windows at work. All are tolerable work >>>> environments. I use the Ubuntu and Windows instances mostly for >>>> Keysight. On the windows side we use the Windows theme and it has never >>>> been a problem for any of the clients that Keysight has using the Eggplant >>>> software. Windows makes up approximately 90+% of their user-base. >>>> >>>> The artifact problems I refer to have been there all along, and I’ve >>>>> talked on several forums to other users that run into them too. If no one >>>>> on the project has ever noticed these issues, I don’t know what to say. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I am familiar with some of the issues you mention. There are ways to >>>> get around them. If you would like to discuss that I suggest you ask about >>>> which ones specifically. I may go back and answer some of your previous >>>> emails. >>>> >>>> I bring up the archaic menu and there are 2 camps - one says use >>>&g
Re: Consider GtkCore as UI
07 PM Daniel Boyd > wrote: > >> Bruce, >> >> Have you tried >> defaults write NSGlobalDomain NSMenuInterfaceStyle >> NSWindows95InterfaceStyle >> >> That will put the menus at the top of each window. >> >> Abandoning cocoa doesn’t make much sense. What I think is absolutely a >> good idea would be someone adopting the gtk theme and giving it some love. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 16, 2023, at 15:28, bruce wrote: >> >> >> >> Here are some examples >> >> >> Notice how the scroll bar splits as well. It also happens in prepackaged >> binary SystemPreferences.app: >> >> >> You can also see how the menu collides with a linux style global menu. >> This is on helloSystem. On GhostBSD-xfce, the scroll list artifacts are >> less pronounced, looking more like heavy underlines, but the menu collision >> still happens. Menu theme doesn’t align with the desktop. It’s jarring. >> What is more jarring is the ‘blip’ I get, a small rectangle that pops up >> momentarily, suspiciously the same size as the big icon, and then >> disappears when the main window appears. Xfce is the only desktop >> environment this ‘blip’ does not happen on. >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 8:10 PM Gregory Casamento < >> greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Bruce, >>> >>> I admit I looked at the mailing list and did see where you have made >>> comments both recently and a couple of years back regarding certain things >>> of interest. My apologies that you didn't get the response that you felt >>> you needed on some of these issues... >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2023 at 2:34 PM bruce >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Gregory, respectfully, I’ve been trying gnustep for the last decade, >>>> waiting for it to be ready, and getting frustrated. During that time I’ve >>>> had 5 different computers, and used about 10 linux distros, and the place I >>>> find gnustep working tolerably is on freebsd-xfce. Not too many artifacts, >>>> themes are working, but it still doesn’t integrate to the desktop - that’s >>>> a design issue , and I’m not asking you to change that, just consider an >>>> alternative. >>>> >>> >>> I use GNUstep on Debian Linux at home (I have since Debian 9) and Ubuntu >>> 16-22 at work as well as Windows at work. All are tolerable work >>> environments. I use the Ubuntu and Windows instances mostly for >>> Keysight. On the windows side we use the Windows theme and it has never >>> been a problem for any of the clients that Keysight has using the Eggplant >>> software. Windows makes up approximately 90+% of their user-base. >>> >>> The artifact problems I refer to have been there all along, and I’ve >>>> talked on several forums to other users that run into them too. If no one >>>> on the project has ever noticed these issues, I don’t know what to say. >>>> >>> >>> I am familiar with some of the issues you mention. There are ways to >>> get around them. If you would like to discuss that I suggest you ask about >>> which ones specifically. I may go back and answer some of your previous >>> emails. >>> >>> I bring up the archaic menu and there are 2 camps - one says use >>>> WindowMaker, and the other longs for something more modern - so i’m >>>> suggesting that you can kill 2 birds with one stone by using >>>> CoreGTK.framework >>>> >>> >>> Well. Here is the thing. You may be under the misconception that >>> GNUstep is intended as a Desktop Environment. It isn't or, at least, it >>> hasn't been. GNUstep's major focus over these many years has been to be >>> as cross-platform as humanly possible. Arguably it has achieved that... >>> GNUstep currently runs on any POSIX-compliant OS, as well as Windows on >>> both MSYS2 and MSVC. >>> >>> The issue is that the project has left worrying about the "Desktop" to >>> other projects... (examples of this are Etoile -- defunct, GSDE, NEXTSPACE, >>> etc). As such GNUstep is perceived as being "reluctant" to change the >>> default theme from the one many people claim is "Ugly". I find that ironic >>> given that many OSs modeled their look AFTER NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP (Windows 95 >>> being the most prominent of these, as well as AmigaOS 2+). >>> >>> One of the things that has
Re: The 'tools-buildtool' repository
Please do. :). And you’re correct. The tool was moved into the libs-Xcode directory so that everything lives in one place. Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 15:55 Milo Banks wrote: > I see that the 'tools-buildtool' repository is mentioned in the > 'tools-scripts' script 'clone-essential-repos-https.' It doesn't seem to > exist anymore, and I was wondering what it was. From what little I can find > online, it appears to be a way to build '.xcodeproj' projects. I assume > that functionality got merged into 'libs-xcode' (as per it's README stating > it was capable of building projects), but I wanted to double check. If it > is indeed no longer in use I can submit a patch to 'tools-scripts' to > remove it. > > Cheers! > > (This is my first time using a mailing list; if I did it wrong, please > correct me) >
GNUstep BiMonthly - Sorry I wasn't able to make it...
Hey guys, I ended up in the hospital on friday and part of saturday due to high blood sugar. I apologize for not being able to make it to the meeting. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: Worrying news? "Apple’s Objective-C ‘appears to be reaching its end of life’ – or so says JetBrains survey "
Liam, I saw this. The tiobe index seems to disagree. It’s also important to remember that jetbrains recently had to take down their AppCode application (which sucked) since it didn’t sell. Jetbrains is the creator of the kotlin language so they have a vested interest in their android customers. I would take their “index” with a grain of salt to say the least. While it is certain that Apple won’t be investing into thing beyond ObjC 2.0, it is foolhardy to think that ObjC is going away anytime soon since there is an enormous installed base of stable code, not the least of which is Foundation and AppKit themselves. Also consider CocoaPods. So, no, not worried about it. Also… look at Java and COBOL. For years people have declared the end of both languages. Java is still popular, though not in vogue and COBOL while not one of the “cool kids” has literally billions of lines of code being maintained and new code being written every year. This (admittedly biased as it is by the CTO of MicroFocus) article gives some reasons why…. https://techbeacon.com/app-dev-testing/why-your-cobol-code-isnt-going-anywhere?amp Plus… Apple already has a mechanism for automatically allowing objc and swift to work together. Take a look at the frameworks in Xcode and you’ll notice some files called *.apinotes. These are YAML files that are used by the compiler to allow easy integration into swift projects. So, essentially, if Apple writes an ObjC version of a framework they get the swift version for absolutely free (minus the cost of writing the YAML file). If they write a swift only version they don’t get that benefit. So, yeah, in conclusion… Yes, ObjC is NOT on the rise, but reports of its demise have been greatly exaggerated! ;) Yours, GC PS. That being said, Apple dumping ObjC might spell a boom for us as all of the people who have installed codebases would suddenly need support for it either on macOS (on which we don’t currently work) or on other platforms. Something to think about… PPS. All of the above being said. I admit I wouldn’t be terribly shocked to hear from Apple that “we have dropped support for the legacy objc language to provide you with the best support for our new swift language to make it the ‘greatest developer experience in the world’” or some grotesque BS like that. Lol On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 06:05 Liam Proven wrote: > > https://devclass.com/2023/11/21/apples-objective-c-appears-to-be-reaching-its-end-of-life-or-so-says-jetbrains-survey/ > > Disclaimer: this is by a colleague of mine but I have seen other such > stories from the same survey. > > -- > Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven > IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 > Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 > >
Re: Sovereign Tech Fund application?
Hey guys, I agree it is very interesting. I am not sure how to approach this. I did see that GNOME got funding, so it is possible we might be able to. Yours, GC On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:01 AM H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: > Paul, > > This looks interesting! > > I know about the SPRIND program from consulting a startup but wasn't aware > that there is a special open source subprogram. > > And from a first glance it appears as if they are supporting base > technologies (not applications) so that GNUstep could indeed fit well. > > One factor is the influence on society so that it appears to me that the > technology must help to prevent dependence on an oligopoly of big > companies... > "The two factors most important for our evaluation and discussion are the > relevance and undersupply of a project," > > Well, "undersupply" could become an issue as there are several FOSS > alternatives to GNUstep (even if we consider GNUstep as superior) > > "we look at how well the planning for the project is laid out. Are the > activities well-structured, appropriate and feasible? Another criterion is > the people or team behind the project – does the application state clearly > that the teams or organizations proposed here are suitable to implement the > activities requested? Is there a community behind the technology?" > > The intersting thing is that although it is a German funds it is not > regionally limited. And there are essentially no limitations of the legal > form (company, society, informal work group etc.). > > What is important is to clearly define who will work for the project and > estimates of the work packages and 8 hours working days. > > Generally I interpret that in this way: > - it needs a well defined project and a convincing plan > - Greg or FSF (?) could apply > - there could be funding for a handful of full-time developers (freelance > mode) > - project plan requires at least (yes, not max.) 150.000€ funding > > BR, > Nikolaus > > > Am 11.11.2023 um 15:20 schrieb wml...@rumbero.org: > > Hello everybody, > > thanks to a notice on Hacker News at > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38211405 about public funding for > GNOME i found out about the German "Sovereign Tech Fund" at > https://sovereigntechfund.de/en/. > > Apparently this is a very laudable initiative to fund OSI-approved or FSF > Free/Libre license based projects. This obviously applies to GNUstep even > more than to to GNOME due to its added cross-platform advantage. > > In my humble opinion, the only thing that still hinders GNUstep from fully > thriving is the lack of developer time to properly polish both the > underlying framework and the associated software relying on it. It would > thus be great if the Sovereign Tech Fund would be a viable option to > finance dedicated developers to allow for full time focussing on GNUstep > completion and polishing. > > Please have a look at https://sovereigntechfund.de/en/applications/ in > order to verify if this might be helpful for the GNUstep project. > > Regards, > > Paul > > > > -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Re: A recent article of mine mentioned GNUstep
I loved this article. Thank you so much. On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 10:23 Liam Proven wrote: > I hope I am now closer to preferred terminology. ;-) > > > Window Maker Live: When less is more, but more is also ... more? > > https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/25/window_maker_096_live/ > > New version of Debian-based live distro boasts added GNUstep, too > > > > -- > Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven > IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884 > Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 > >
Re: website & ftp downloads update
Riccardo, See below… On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 10:16 Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi Marco, > > Marco Cawthorne wrote: > > I was wondering about the download links on the page. They still use > > the ftp:// protocol which has regrettably been phased out by every > > major browser. > > well, ftp support is intentional, since it is traditional. Every major > browser... you mean every chrome-clone, since Chrome dropped support for > it? If Google is too ignorant to distinguish between a hyper-text > (transfer protocol) and a file... I don't know... > But I guess it is evil that spreads like URL part and protocol hiding, > https enforcement for pages that don't need it at all, etc, etc. Getting upset about the general trends when we can’t control them isn’t going to change how we are perceived when people try to access the page. When you consider the following statistics: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share It seems pretty silly not to try to make it easier for people with Chrome based browsers to download the packages when Chrome based browsers account for a large portion of what people use all over the world. > > > There are http links to those, so I was wondering if they should be > > changed to make them more accessible. I remember the old wiki used > > them too. > > Yes, good point, I didn't notice since I use browser(s) which support > it. I just noticed that Firefox followed the bad practice.. they really > are a google-follower today, how sad. > I agree that it is unfortunate. It seems unnecessary to remove it as it is tried and true. While you could generate both links, as you said, via PHP then we should consider that. > I think best would be to provide both links like other sites do. Before > with the php page both links could be generated, I made it now static. > Agreed. We should provide both and use whichever one is available on the browser the user is using. This can be made easier by removing some of the things for the page, > like "required"... I find it is useless, since it depends on what > installation you perform and what programs. The same goes for > stable/unstable version. True. I was looking at that as well. I personally often just copy the link and then use wget in a terminal of > a machine, so not downloading from the browser itself. > > Does it even make sense to show the version number? Maybe it is easier > to do something like: > GNUstep Make || Makefile Package > > it is easier also to update. No need to explicitly say the version > number in each link. Agreed. I generally want to simplify the download/source pages even more, this > was more a stopgap thing since we were missing files and had > inconsistent links. > > sources.html and downloads.html should somehow merge in one single page, > in my opinion. > > Riccardo > > > > >
Re: website & ftp downloads update
Marco, Forgive the top post, but you have a point. I think we should make the downloads page use http rather than ftp for downloads giving that the vast majority of browsers have dropped the ftp protocol. GC On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 18:36 Marco Cawthorne wrote: > On 2023-10-19 09:14:32 -0700 Riccardo Mottola > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > after discussing at the last meeting that it is fine to let the > > dynamic > > download page go and centralize all download links in one place. > > > > Did so. > > > > I took the time then to check all package versions and upload the > > missing tarballs on our ftp site, so that e.g. debian finds them and > > packagers are happy again. As I went I also checked all latest release > > present. > > > > We had a strange mix of links without files or old links. > > > > https://home.gnustep.org/resources/downloads.html > > > > Of course, lots more to do, but this will help quite a bit to prevent > > confusion. > > > > Riccardo > > > > Thank you! > > Just a minor thought: > I was wondering about the download links on the page. They still use > the ftp:// protocol which has regrettably been phased out by every > major browser. > > There are http links to those, so I was wondering if they should be > changed to make them more accessible. I remember the old wiki used > them too. > > -- Marco > > >
Brutal review…
This guy is misled about a lot of things but his experience reflects the experience a lot of people have. Let’s try to improve this. This literally upset me. https://www.youtube.com/live/z0unnqzaoLQ?si=J3FKCK7gGOyEmUCo Yours, GC
GNUstep bi-monthly meeting REMINDER
Hey all, The bi-monthly meeting is this coming saturday from 12:30 - 1:30 EST (please convert to your local time). The link is below. If you were on the invitation list, please don't worry you can still attend as all are welcome. Click the following link to join the meeting from your computer: https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://meet.jit.si/TheatricalNecessitiesFormulateNotably&sa=D&source=calendar&usd=2&usg=AOvVaw2ONvjmJp88UwdECLoGAHjp> The function of this meeting is to get to know one another. It is also a semi-official meeting as some things discussed there are taken into consideration by the core team. Please feel free to attend. Yours, GC -- Gregory Casamento GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
Protected branches
Hey guys. I’m wondering. Should we start using protected branches in github? This would prevent accidental (or malicious) pushing on the master/main branch without proper approvals. Is this something we should put in place? We have been operating just fine without it, but I thought I would open the topic for discussion. The reason I bring it up is because it is a technique I have used with git in the past at previous positions as well as now with Keysight. This feature is not specific to GitHub as it also exists on gitlab and other platforms. Any thoughts? Yours, GC
Re: Location and weather data.
The closest thing I can think of is PictureFrame… https://www.nongnu.org/gap/pictureframe/index.html It does show some weather data. GC On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 20:35 Marco Cawthorne wrote: > On 2023-09-28 15:27:18 -0700 Paulo Delgado > wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > I'm learning ObjC/GNUstep and decided to write a weather app as my > > starter > > project (https://github.com/paulodelgado/Weather.app). Initially I > > was > > pulling data from "WeatherApi.com" but I realized this wont be > > sustainable as > > because of the pricing limitations of each access token. > > > > I went out to see how other open source apps gather weather data and > > in doing > > so I checked out the GNOME weather app and found out there's a > > library called > > "libgweather" (https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libgweather). > > > > Is there something similar in GNUstep? If not, would it be a good > > idea to > > write a clone of this library specifically for use of other GNUstep > > apps? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Paulo Delgado > > > > > > Hello Paulo, there's been apps that have queried weather sources such > as NOAA's National Weather Service without an API in the past. For > example, wmweather asks you to provide the weather station identifier > (such as EDDB, for Berlin) and you can get a METAR report via plain > text here: > > https://tgftp.nws.noaa.gov/data/observations/metar/decoded/EDDB.TXT > > That should be trivial to parse to not need a dedicated library, > if you're aiming for minimalism anyway. However a dedicated library > that uses that info, localizes it and exposes a very Cocoa-like API > does sound like a useful project! > > -- Marco > > >
Re: Copyright assignment- reminder
Austin, No I didn’t see it in my inbox. I also checked my spam. Please email it again and, if you can copy my other email address as well as this one. It is gnustep...@gmail.com. Thanks. GC On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 21:43 wrote: > I think you should probably keep the requirement if it saves a headache > later. Did you ever receive mine on September 5th? > > > On Sep 26, 2023, at 5:53 PM, Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > I have considered dropping the requirement entirely or keeping a record > locally by sending it out myself, but I am not sure what the best way to > handle it is. The FSF is way too laggy when it comes to handling this. > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 18:51 Gregory Casamento > wrote: > >> Hey Frederik, >> >> That’s one of the reasons I let people contribute if they have even >> requested it. >> >> Austin, it would be ok to write again just this time CC me, please. :) >> I usually tell people to do that since I like to have some sort of >> correspondence as a record. >> >> Yours, GC >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 15:35 Frederik Seiffert >> wrote: >> >>> FYI as a point of reference: for me it took 4 years for the FSF to >>> process my assignment. >>> >>> >>> Am 26.09.2023 um 16:18 schrieb dr_c...@me.com: >>> >>> Should I try sending form a different email address? Because I still >>> haven't gotten anything back. Maybe my address is blocked? Is it bothersome >>> for me to write again? >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2023, at 10:02 PM, Gregory Casamento < >>> greg.casame...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> All, >>> >>> For less than trivial changes to GNUstep we still need to collect >>> copyright disclaimers from contributors. Each maintainer is responsible >>> for collecting these as needed. >>> >>> The procedure is simple, just write to ass...@gnu.org and request a >>> form for the GNUstep project for current and future changes. >>> >>> I am typically very open about this. I keep records on who has an >>> assignment on file and who doesn’t. As long as you have requested a form >>> with the intention of completing it in a timely manner you are free to >>> contribute. >>> >>> Please CC me on any emails sent requesting an assignment form. >>> >>> Yours, GC >>> >>> >>> >>> >
Re: Copyright assignment- reminder
I have considered dropping the requirement entirely or keeping a record locally by sending it out myself, but I am not sure what the best way to handle it is. The FSF is way too laggy when it comes to handling this. On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 18:51 Gregory Casamento wrote: > Hey Frederik, > > That’s one of the reasons I let people contribute if they have even > requested it. > > Austin, it would be ok to write again just this time CC me, please. :) > I usually tell people to do that since I like to have some sort of > correspondence as a record. > > Yours, GC > > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 15:35 Frederik Seiffert > wrote: > >> FYI as a point of reference: for me it took 4 years for the FSF to >> process my assignment. >> >> >> Am 26.09.2023 um 16:18 schrieb dr_c...@me.com: >> >> Should I try sending form a different email address? Because I still >> haven't gotten anything back. Maybe my address is blocked? Is it bothersome >> for me to write again? >> >> On Sep 25, 2023, at 10:02 PM, Gregory Casamento >> wrote: >> >> All, >> >> For less than trivial changes to GNUstep we still need to collect >> copyright disclaimers from contributors. Each maintainer is responsible >> for collecting these as needed. >> >> The procedure is simple, just write to ass...@gnu.org and request a form >> for the GNUstep project for current and future changes. >> >> I am typically very open about this. I keep records on who has an >> assignment on file and who doesn’t. As long as you have requested a form >> with the intention of completing it in a timely manner you are free to >> contribute. >> >> Please CC me on any emails sent requesting an assignment form. >> >> Yours, GC >> >> >> >>
Re: Copyright assignment- reminder
Hey Frederik, That’s one of the reasons I let people contribute if they have even requested it. Austin, it would be ok to write again just this time CC me, please. :) I usually tell people to do that since I like to have some sort of correspondence as a record. Yours, GC On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 15:35 Frederik Seiffert wrote: > FYI as a point of reference: for me it took 4 years for the FSF to process > my assignment. > > > Am 26.09.2023 um 16:18 schrieb dr_c...@me.com: > > Should I try sending form a different email address? Because I still > haven't gotten anything back. Maybe my address is blocked? Is it bothersome > for me to write again? > > On Sep 25, 2023, at 10:02 PM, Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > All, > > For less than trivial changes to GNUstep we still need to collect > copyright disclaimers from contributors. Each maintainer is responsible > for collecting these as needed. > > The procedure is simple, just write to ass...@gnu.org and request a form > for the GNUstep project for current and future changes. > > I am typically very open about this. I keep records on who has an > assignment on file and who doesn’t. As long as you have requested a form > with the intention of completing it in a timely manner you are free to > contribute. > > Please CC me on any emails sent requesting an assignment form. > > Yours, GC > > > >
