Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-05-01 Thread KatolaZ 
On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 04:16:13PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

[cut]

> > 
> > I should have said: the list of bugs related to a package forked by
> > Devuan can be retrieved from bugs.devuan.org. We haven't forked edb,
> > and I think we don't have any reason to do that,
> 
> ..agreed. :o)
> 
> > so you should report
> > the bug upstream (i.e., to Debian) or up-upstream (i.e., to GNU
> > Emacs).
> 
> ..just done: To: 840...@bugs.debian.org, 871...@bugs.debian.org
> with Cc: Devuan Bug Tracking System 
> 
>

Coulnd't find it yet :\ Will double-check the mailbox and the script
that processes it, and let you know.

Thanks

KatolaZ

P.S.: I am pretty sure that we both look and sound much better in
front of a beer ;)

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-05-01 Thread Arnt Karlsen 
On Tue, 1 May 2018 14:04:05 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20180501130405.gk26...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:

> On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 02:45:00PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> [cut]

> > > Now the BTS is broken...except it ain't broken (and the fact that
> > > many users have been able to use it should be a hint). It's just
> > > telling you that it can't retrieve the list of bugs related to
> > > that package. That's because the "feature" is currently
> > > disabled.  
> > 
> > ..why???  This edb bug is
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=840748 and is not
> > yet solved in
> > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=871041 ...
> > 
> > ...and we shouldn't have to waste effort on needlessly creating
> > duplicate bug reports, if we can drop them right home (upstream 
> > in this case) where they belong.
> >   
> 
> The reason is simple: the BTS (debbugs) has been developed by Debian
> for Debian. It is a quite hairy ball of spaghetti stuff, written in
> four different languages by dozens of people over about 25 years, and,
> believe it or not, it is *quite difficult* to customise.

..that, I can believe. :o) 

> If you have a solution for that, any help will be more than welcome. I
> haven't been able to find a way to do that which does not require
> binning debbugs and using something else. Maybe it's the sane thing to
> do. But "using something else" requires time in testing, porting,
> deploying, and maintaining. And we simple haven't had the required
> energy to do that. You know, we are trying to push ascii out in the
> meanwhile...
> 
> > 
> > ..any amprolla style work on separately fetching bugs in progress?
> >  
> 
> That's not at all related to amprolla,

..ok, by "amprolla style" I was thinking "pass on Debian bugs to
Debian" in the same fashion we "fetch Debian packages from Debian
mirrors."

> but you are welcome to work on that nevertheless. And to submit code.

..easy, once somebody wire me e.g. US$130,000 so I can hire a lawyer
and dump my litigation shit load that way.  Meanwhile, I'm stuck in 
that shit load.

> > ..one way could be use a "Fetch bug reports now?" menu option, and 
> > then add a "Fetch Debian Upstream bug reports now?" menu option, 
> > and then a "Fetch Further Upstream bug reports now?" menu option, 
> > rather than try do it all automatically like Debian's reportbug,
> > "dumping them all in one big messy bug soup bowl."
> >  
> 
> Great. The reporository for reportbug (which is a package that has
> been forked byu Devuan) is available at:
> 
>   https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/reportbug
> 
> Patches are welcome. You'll probably find out by yourself how easy is
> to delve into reportbug, and how easy it is to change it.

..this looks easier to do, AFAICT from poking around in my 
reportbug install, e.g. have it check for presence of "/DEVUAN/" 
to decide on who's bug.de**an.org bug reports to check.
Ideas are easy. :o)

> >   
> > > Just hit "y" and continue with your bug report.  
> > 
> > ..willco.
> >   
> > > The list of bugs
> > > related to a package can be retrieved from bugs.devuan.org  
> > 
> > ..https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg=edb
> > now reports: " Devuan bug report logs: package edb
> > There is no record of the edb package, and no bugs have been 
> > filed against it.", possibly because bugs.devuan.org _doesn't_ 
> > check packages that we fetch from Debian, with bugs.debian.org.
> > 
> > ..if it did, it would mention Debian's #840748 and #871041, 
> > _now_ on Tue, 1 May 2018 11:34:58 UTC, _before_ my report.
> >  
> 
> I should have said: the list of bugs related to a package forked by
> Devuan can be retrieved from bugs.devuan.org. We haven't forked edb,
> and I think we don't have any reason to do that,

..agreed. :o)

> so you should report
> the bug upstream (i.e., to Debian) or up-upstream (i.e., to GNU
> Emacs).

..just done: To: 840...@bugs.debian.org, 871...@bugs.debian.org
with Cc: Devuan Bug Tracking System 


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-05-01 Thread KatolaZ 
On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 02:45:00PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

[cut]

> 
> > Is this the normal way you interact with an open-source community, or
> > are you making some special effort to look mean just for Devuan? :\
> 
> ..this in how I repond to people who whine.  Also in courts.
>

wow. Except you are the only one whining here :)

> ..regardless of whether or not I am right or wrong about things being
> broken, I report on things I suspect may be broken, because they appear
> broken to me, and because I belive broken stuff in Devuan needs to be
> fixed, regardless of whether I can do it myself, or of my need for 
> funds to hire a lawyer to do my post-Groklaw litigation, or whatever.
>

double-wow. I am seriously impressed :)

> ..human error is part of the deal, deal with it.
>

good advice for anybody, indeed.

> > > ~$ reportbug edb
> > > *** Welcome to reportbug.  Use ? for help at prompts. ***
> > > Note: bug reports are publicly archived (including the email
> > > address of the submitter). Detected character set: UTF-8
> > > Please change your locale if this is incorrect.
> > > 
> > > Using 'arnt ' as your from address.
> > > Getting status for edb...
> > > A package named "edb" does not appear to be installed; do you want
> > > to search for a similar-looking filename in an installed package
> > > [Y|n|q|?]? n Getting available info for edb... Please enter the
> > > version of the package this report applies to (blank OK)  
> > > > 1.13-3  
> > > Will send report to Devuan (per lsb_release).
> > > Querying Devuan BTS for reports on edb (source)...
> > > Unable to connect to Devuan BTS (error: "NoNetwork()"); continue
> > > [y|N|?]? 
> > >  
> > 
> > Now the BTS is broken...except it ain't broken (and the fact that many
> > users have been able to use it should be a hint). It's just telling
> > you that it can't retrieve the list of bugs related to that
> > package. That's because the "feature" is currently disabled.
> 
> ..why???  This edb bug is
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=840748 and is not yet 
> solved in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=871041 ...
> 
> ...and we shouldn't have to waste effort on needlessly creating
> duplicate bug reports, if we can drop them right home (upstream 
> in this case) where they belong.
> 

The reason is simple: the BTS (debbugs) has been developed by Debian
for Debian. It is a quite hairy ball of spaghetti stuff, written in
four different languages by dozens of people over about 25 years, and,
believe it or not, it is *quite difficult* to customise.

If you have a solution for that, any help will be more than welcome. I
haven't been able to find a way to do that which does not require
binning debbugs and using something else. Maybe it's the sane thing to
do. But "using something else" requires time in testing, porting,
deploying, and maintaining. And we simple haven't had the required
energy to do that. You know, we are trying to push ascii out in the
meanwhile...

> 
> ..any amprolla style work on separately fetching bugs in progress?
>

That's not at all related to amprolla, but you are welcome to work on
that nevertheless. And to submit code.

> ..one way could be use a "Fetch bug reports now?" menu option, and 
> then add a "Fetch Debian Upstream bug reports now?" menu option, 
> and then a "Fetch Further Upstream bug reports now?" menu option, 
> rather than try do it all automatically like Debian's reportbug,
> "dumping them all in one big messy bug soup bowl."
>

Great. The reporository for reportbug (which is a package that has
been forked byu Devuan) is available at:

  https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/reportbug

Patches are welcome. You'll probably find out by yourself how easy is
to delve into reportbug, and how easy it is to change it.

> 
> > Just hit "y" and continue with your bug report.
> 
> ..willco.
> 
> > The list of bugs
> > related to a package can be retrieved from bugs.devuan.org
> 
> ..https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg=edb
> now reports: " Devuan bug report logs: package edb
> There is no record of the edb package, and no bugs have been 
> filed against it.", possibly because bugs.devuan.org _doesn't_ 
> check packages that we fetch from Debian, with bugs.debian.org.
> 
> ..if it did, it would mention Debian's #840748 and #871041, 
> _now_ on Tue, 1 May 2018 11:34:58 UTC, _before_ my report.
>

I should have said: the list of bugs related to a package forked by
Devuan can be retrieved from bugs.devuan.org. We haven't forked edb,
and I think we don't have any reason to do that, so you should report
the bug upstream (i.e., to Debian) or up-upstream (i.e., to GNU
Emacs).

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[

Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-05-01 Thread KatolaZ 
On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 08:40:00AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:

[cut]

> 
> I've been looking into enabling golang autocompletion for emacs on my 
> system.  It's probably trivial to do, but not so trivial to figure out 
> what trivia need to be done from the online emacs documentation.  Not to 
> worry.  I'll figure it out.  But I understand about it maybe taking 20 
> people...
> 

Just install golang-mode, and it should work OOTB. I have added the
following line to .emacs:

  ;; golang-mode stuff
  ;;
  ;; apply gofmt before saving
  (add-hook 'before-save-hook 'gofmt-before-save)
  
which is useful to have everything gofmt-ted when you save.

My2Cents

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-05-01 Thread Arnt Karlsen 
On Tue, 1 May 2018 10:02:34 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20180501090234.gi26...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:

> On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 08:51:31AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> > 
> > On 2018-04-30 18:08, KatolaZ wrote:  
> > > On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 12:51:53AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

..[context cut]...

> > > You started this thread whining about Devuan repos being broken.
> > > Now that we discovered that they are not broken, you found out
> > > (what a news!) that there are packages that depend on systemd.
> > > You can find out by yourself that you can't install any of those
> > > packages if you use only Devuan repos. What's next?
> > > 
> > 
> > ..how about fixing Devuan BTS, instead of whining about me 
> > reporting things that _appear_ broken to me?:  

..[duly cut without loss of context]

> Is this the normal way you interact with an open-source community, or
> are you making some special effort to look mean just for Devuan? :\

..this in how I repond to people who whine.  Also in courts.

..regardless of whether or not I am right or wrong about things being
broken, I report on things I suspect may be broken, because they appear
broken to me, and because I belive broken stuff in Devuan needs to be
fixed, regardless of whether I can do it myself, or of my need for 
funds to hire a lawyer to do my post-Groklaw litigation, or whatever.

..human error is part of the deal, deal with it.

> > ~$ reportbug edb
> > *** Welcome to reportbug.  Use ? for help at prompts. ***
> > Note: bug reports are publicly archived (including the email
> > address of the submitter). Detected character set: UTF-8
> > Please change your locale if this is incorrect.
> > 
> > Using 'arnt ' as your from address.
> > Getting status for edb...
> > A package named "edb" does not appear to be installed; do you want
> > to search for a similar-looking filename in an installed package
> > [Y|n|q|?]? n Getting available info for edb... Please enter the
> > version of the package this report applies to (blank OK)  
> > > 1.13-3  
> > Will send report to Devuan (per lsb_release).
> > Querying Devuan BTS for reports on edb (source)...
> > Unable to connect to Devuan BTS (error: "NoNetwork()"); continue
> > [y|N|?]? 
> >  
> 
> Now the BTS is broken...except it ain't broken (and the fact that many
> users have been able to use it should be a hint). It's just telling
> you that it can't retrieve the list of bugs related to that
> package. That's because the "feature" is currently disabled.

..why???  This edb bug is
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=840748 and is not yet 
solved in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=871041 ...

...and we shouldn't have to waste effort on needlessly creating
duplicate bug reports, if we can drop them right home (upstream 
in this case) where they belong.


..any amprolla style work on separately fetching bugs in progress?

..one way could be use a "Fetch bug reports now?" menu option, and 
then add a "Fetch Debian Upstream bug reports now?" menu option, 
and then a "Fetch Further Upstream bug reports now?" menu option, 
rather than try do it all automatically like Debian's reportbug,
"dumping them all in one big messy bug soup bowl."


> Just hit "y" and continue with your bug report.

..willco.

> The list of bugs
> related to a package can be retrieved from bugs.devuan.org

..https://bugs.devuan.org//cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg=edb
now reports: " Devuan bug report logs: package edb
There is no record of the edb package, and no bugs have been 
filed against it.", possibly because bugs.devuan.org _doesn't_ 
check packages that we fetch from Debian, with bugs.debian.org.

..if it did, it would mention Debian's #840748 and #871041, 
_now_ on Tue, 1 May 2018 11:34:58 UTC, _before_ my report.

> > ..edb is broken too, and breaks emacs25 installs if present.
> > emacs25 installs fine, once you remove edb.
> 
> 
> I'll tell you something incredible: you are not the only Devuan user,
> and not all Emacs users in ASCII want emacs25. edb might break emacs25
> but does not break emacs24. 

..the _installation_ of emacs24, correct.  I never got around to 
actually play around with edb in neither emacs24 nor emacs25, 
and I understand there may be several separate bugs in edb.
And this fact, my experience and my belief all belongs in the 
2 bug reports, not so much in here.

> The breakage here comes from the Debian emacs team, who tried to do
> three things in one go and managed to do less than one.  Your bug
> report should better be submitted there, if you want it to be
> useful. We don't have a team of 20 people in charge of packaging emacs
> and emacs-related stuff, unfortunately...

..is why we report it "Upstream", it may be "Upstream" to Debian too.

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just

Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-05-01 Thread Hendrik Boom 
On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 10:02:34AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 08:51:31AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > 
> > ..how about fixing Devuan BTS, instead of whining about me 
> > reporting things that _appear_ broken to me?:
> 
> Is this the normal way you interact with an open-source community, or
> are you making some special effort to look mean just for Devuan? :\
> 
> > ~$ reportbug edb
> > *** Welcome to reportbug.  Use ? for help at prompts. ***
> > Note: bug reports are publicly archived (including the email address of
> > the submitter). Detected character set: UTF-8
> > Please change your locale if this is incorrect.
> > 
> > Using 'arnt ' as your from address.
> > Getting status for edb...
> > A package named "edb" does not appear to be installed; do you want to
> > search for a similar-looking filename in an installed package
> > [Y|n|q|?]? n Getting available info for edb... Please enter the version
> > of the package this report applies to (blank OK)
> > > 1.13-3
> > Will send report to Devuan (per lsb_release).
> > Querying Devuan BTS for reports on edb (source)...
> > Unable to connect to Devuan BTS (error: "NoNetwork()"); continue
> > [y|N|?]? 
> >
> 
> Now the BTS is broken...except it ain't broken (and the fact that many
> users have been able to use it should be a hint). It's just telling
> you that it can't retrieve the list of bugs related to that
> package. That's because the "feature" is currently disabled. Just hit
> "y" and continue with your bug report. The list of bugs related to a
> package can be retrieved from bugs.devuan.org

To be fair, the error message does suggest that the bug tracking system 
is inaccessible instead of that everything's OK instead of a minor 
disabled feature.
 
> 
> > ..edb is broken too, and breaks emacs25 installs if present.
> > emacs25 installs fine, once you remove edb.
> >
> 
> I'll tell you something incredible: you are not the only Devuan user,
> and not all Emacs users in ASCII want emacs25. edb might break emacs25
> but does not break emacs24. 

Which is why the emacs package is properly dependent on emacs24 instead 
of emacs25.

> 
> The breakage here comes from the Debian emacs team, who tried to do
> three things in one go and managed to do less than one.  Your bug
> report should better be submitted there, if you want it to be
> useful. We don't have a team of 20 people in charge of packaging emacs
> and emacs-related stuff, unfortunately...

I've been looking into enabling golang autocompletion for emacs on my 
system.  It's probably trivial to do, but not so trivial to figure out 
what trivia need to be done from the online emacs documentation.  Not to 
worry.  I'll figure it out.  But I understand about it maybe taking 20 
people...

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-05-01 Thread KatolaZ 
On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 08:51:31AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

[cut]

> 
> 
> ..how about fixing Devuan BTS, instead of whining about me 
> reporting things that _appear_ broken to me?:

Is this the normal way you interact with an open-source community, or
are you making some special effort to look mean just for Devuan? :\

> ~$ reportbug edb
> *** Welcome to reportbug.  Use ? for help at prompts. ***
> Note: bug reports are publicly archived (including the email address of
> the submitter). Detected character set: UTF-8
> Please change your locale if this is incorrect.
> 
> Using 'arnt ' as your from address.
> Getting status for edb...
> A package named "edb" does not appear to be installed; do you want to
> search for a similar-looking filename in an installed package
> [Y|n|q|?]? n Getting available info for edb... Please enter the version
> of the package this report applies to (blank OK)
> > 1.13-3
> Will send report to Devuan (per lsb_release).
> Querying Devuan BTS for reports on edb (source)...
> Unable to connect to Devuan BTS (error: "NoNetwork()"); continue
> [y|N|?]? 
>

Now the BTS is broken...except it ain't broken (and the fact that many
users have been able to use it should be a hint). It's just telling
you that it can't retrieve the list of bugs related to that
package. That's because the "feature" is currently disabled. Just hit
"y" and continue with your bug report. The list of bugs related to a
package can be retrieved from bugs.devuan.org

> ..edb is broken too, and breaks emacs25 installs if present.
> emacs25 installs fine, once you remove edb.
>

I'll tell you something incredible: you are not the only Devuan user,
and not all Emacs users in ASCII want emacs25. edb might break emacs25
but does not break emacs24. 

The breakage here comes from the Debian emacs team, who tried to do
three things in one go and managed to do less than one.  Your bug
report should better be submitted there, if you want it to be
useful. We don't have a team of 20 people in charge of packaging emacs
and emacs-related stuff, unfortunately...

My2Cents

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-05-01 Thread Arnt Karlsen 
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:21:58 -0500, goli...@dyne.org wrote in message 
:

> On 2018-04-30 18:08, KatolaZ wrote:
> > On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 12:51:53AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > 
> > You started this thread whining about Devuan repos being broken. Now
> > that we discovered that they are not broken, you found out (what a
> > news!) that there are packages that depend on systemd. You can find
> > out by yourself that you can't install any of those packages if you
> > use only Devuan repos. What's next?
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > KatolaZ
> > 
> > ___
> >   
> 
> (S)He could contribute to Devuan by forking the offending package(s)
> to remove the systemd dependencies.  If that can't be accomplished,
> the only option is to use Debian I guess.  This kind of lock-in has
> been predicted for years so no surprise.  Way to go Debian!
> 
> golinux


..how about fixing Devuan BTS, instead of whining about me 
reporting things that _appear_ broken to me?:
~$ reportbug edb
*** Welcome to reportbug.  Use ? for help at prompts. ***
Note: bug reports are publicly archived (including the email address of
the submitter). Detected character set: UTF-8
Please change your locale if this is incorrect.

Using 'arnt ' as your from address.
Getting status for edb...
A package named "edb" does not appear to be installed; do you want to
search for a similar-looking filename in an installed package
[Y|n|q|?]? n Getting available info for edb... Please enter the version
of the package this report applies to (blank OK)
> 1.13-3
Will send report to Devuan (per lsb_release).
Querying Devuan BTS for reports on edb (source)...
Unable to connect to Devuan BTS (error: "NoNetwork()"); continue
[y|N|?]? 

..edb is broken too, and breaks emacs25 installs if present.
emacs25 installs fine, once you remove edb.

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread golinux 

On 2018-04-30 18:08, KatolaZ wrote:

On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 12:51:53AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

You started this thread whining about Devuan repos being broken. Now
that we discovered that they are not broken, you found out (what a
news!) that there are packages that depend on systemd. You can find
out by yourself that you can't install any of those packages if you
use only Devuan repos. What's next?

...

KatolaZ

___



(S)He could contribute to Devuan by forking the offending package(s) to 
remove the systemd dependencies.  If that can't be accomplished, the 
only option is to use Debian I guess.  This kind of lock-in has been 
predicted for years so no surprise.  Way to go Debian!


golinux
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread KatolaZ 
On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 12:51:53AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

[cut]

> 
> 
> ..ok?, https://pastebin.com/QFtA9NGT has output of: 
> ~# apt-cache policy $(aptitude -w72 -F '%p '  search '~N' )
> 
>

I really don't understand what's the point :) If a package requires
systemd, you simply can't satisfy the dep using only Devuan
repos. Some of those packages you listed require libsystemd0, which is
not systemd, and is totally harmless if systemd is not pid1. But I am
really tired of explaining this again. Please have a look at a
previous thread here, or on dev1galay, or google for "devuan
libsystemd0".

Some other packages just are in that list for no logical reason at all
(one example for all is file-rc, which does not depend on anything
systemd...)

You started this thread whining about Devuan repos being broken. Now
that we discovered that they are not broken, you found out (what a
news!) that there are packages that depend on systemd. You can find
out by yourself that you can't install any of those packages if you
use only Devuan repos. What's next?

...

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread Arnt Karlsen 
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 20:18:41 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20180430191841.gg26...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:

> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 08:15:58PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:16:14 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
> > <20180430171614.gf26...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:
> >   
> > > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 06:31:45PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > > 
> > > [cut]
> > >   
> > > > 
> > > > ..then all 3 should work perfectly fine in
> > > > my /etc/apt/sources.list. Trying auto.mirror, I was offered
> > > > updateable tzdata (2018d-0+deb9u1) and
> > > > libdatetime-timezone-perl (1:2.09-1+2018d), which I updated,
> > > > and 28 "New", 26 depending on systemd and 2 non-systemd
> > > > depending packages, all of which I rejected. 
> > > 
> > > Can you please post the list of those packages depending on
> > > systemd (with the corresponding version)?  
> > 
> > 
> > ..these 25 depends on systemd "et al":
> > # aptitude -w72 -F '%p %v %V'  search '~N'
> > 389-ds-base
> > 1.3.5.17-2 arctica-greeter
> >  0.99.0.2-2~bpo
> > ayatana-indicator-session  
> > 0.4.1-1~bpo9+1 cloudprint-service
> >  0.14-8 dbus-user-session
> >  1.10.26-0+deb9
> > friendly-recovery   0.2.34
> > iio-sensor-proxy2.0-4
> > kde-config-systemd  1.2.1-3
> > libnss-resolve 
> > 232-25+deb9u3 libnss-systemd
> >  232-25+deb9u3
> > libpam-systemd 
> > 232-25+deb9u3 live-config-systemd
> >  5.20170112+deb
> > local-apt-repository0.4
> > open-infrastructure-system-config  
> > 20161101-lts1- openvpn-systemd-resolved
> >  1.2.3-1 plymouth
> >  0.9.2-4 rasdaemon
> >  0.5.8-1+b1
> > runit-systemd   2.1.2-9.2
> > snapd   2.21-2+b1
> > systemd-container  
> > 232-25+deb9u3 systemd-coredump
> >  232-25+deb9u3
> > systemd-cron1.5.8-1
> > systemd-journal-remote 
> > 232-25+deb9u3 systemd-tests
> >  237-3~bpo9+1
> > systemd-ui  3-4+b1   
> 
> I don't know where aptitude gets this information from, but none of
> those packages are available from pkgmaster.devuan.org or from
> packages.devuan.org.
> 
> Please use `apt-cache policy PKGNAME` to check. For instance:
> 
> apt-cache policy systemd-ui
> systemd-ui:
>Installed: (none)
>Candidate: (none)
>Version table:
> 
> All the packages that depend directly on systemd are automatically
> masked and removed from the Devuan Release files. Unless you are using
> non-Devuan repos, there is no way any of those can be installed in
> your system :)


..ok?, https://pastebin.com/QFtA9NGT has output of: 
~# apt-cache policy $(aptitude -w72 -F '%p '  search '~N' )


..https://pastebin.com/aeSbzP0M has output of: 
date ;aptitude -t experimental update ;date
(before https://pastebin.com/QFtA9NGT )
date ;aptitude -t experimental update ;date
apt-cache policy $(aptitude -w72 -F '%p '  search '~N' )
cat /etc/apt/sources.list

-- 
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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread KatolaZ 
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 08:15:58PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:16:14 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
> <20180430171614.gf26...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:
> 
> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 06:31:45PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > 
> > [cut]
> > 
> > > 
> > > ..then all 3 should work perfectly fine in my /etc/apt/sources.list.
> > > Trying auto.mirror, I was offered updateable tzdata (2018d-0+deb9u1)
> > > and libdatetime-timezone-perl (1:2.09-1+2018d), which I updated,
> > > and 28 "New", 26 depending on systemd and 2 non-systemd depending
> > > packages, all of which I rejected. 
> > >  
> > 
> > Can you please post the list of those packages depending on systemd
> > (with the corresponding version)?
> 
> 
> ..these 25 depends on systemd "et al":
> # aptitude -w72 -F '%p %v %V'  search '~N'
> 389-ds-base 1.3.5.17-2
> arctica-greeter 0.99.0.2-2~bpo
> ayatana-indicator-session   0.4.1-1~bpo9+1
> cloudprint-service  0.14-8
> dbus-user-session   1.10.26-0+deb9
> friendly-recovery   0.2.34
> iio-sensor-proxy2.0-4 
> kde-config-systemd  1.2.1-3   
> libnss-resolve  232-25+deb9u3 
> libnss-systemd  232-25+deb9u3 
> libpam-systemd  232-25+deb9u3 
> live-config-systemd 5.20170112+deb
> local-apt-repository0.4   
> open-infrastructure-system-config   20161101-lts1-
> openvpn-systemd-resolved1.2.3-1   
> plymouth0.9.2-4   
> rasdaemon   0.5.8-1+b1
> runit-systemd   2.1.2-9.2 
> snapd   2.21-2+b1 
> systemd-container   232-25+deb9u3 
> systemd-coredump232-25+deb9u3 
> systemd-cron1.5.8-1   
> systemd-journal-remote  232-25+deb9u3 
> systemd-tests   237-3~bpo9+1  
> systemd-ui  3-4+b1 

I don't know where aptitude gets this information from, but none of
those packages are available from pkgmaster.devuan.org or from
packages.devuan.org.

Please use `apt-cache policy PKGNAME` to check. For instance:

apt-cache policy systemd-ui
systemd-ui:
   Installed: (none)
   Candidate: (none)
   Version table:

All the packages that depend directly on systemd are automatically
masked and removed from the Devuan Release files. Unless you are using
non-Devuan repos, there is no way any of those can be installed in
your system :)

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
[ (@@@)  Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ  ]


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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread Arnt Karlsen 
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 18:16:14 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20180430171614.gf26...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:

> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 06:31:45PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> 
> [cut]
> 
> > 
> > ..then all 3 should work perfectly fine in my /etc/apt/sources.list.
> > Trying auto.mirror, I was offered updateable tzdata (2018d-0+deb9u1)
> > and libdatetime-timezone-perl (1:2.09-1+2018d), which I updated,
> > and 28 "New", 26 depending on systemd and 2 non-systemd depending
> > packages, all of which I rejected. 
> >  
> 
> Can you please post the list of those packages depending on systemd
> (with the corresponding version)?


..these 25 depends on systemd "et al":
# aptitude -w72 -F '%p %v %V'  search '~N'
389-ds-base 1.3.5.17-2
arctica-greeter 0.99.0.2-2~bpo
ayatana-indicator-session   0.4.1-1~bpo9+1
cloudprint-service  0.14-8
dbus-user-session   1.10.26-0+deb9
friendly-recovery   0.2.34
iio-sensor-proxy2.0-4 
kde-config-systemd  1.2.1-3   
libnss-resolve  232-25+deb9u3 
libnss-systemd  232-25+deb9u3 
libpam-systemd  232-25+deb9u3 
live-config-systemd 5.20170112+deb
local-apt-repository0.4   
open-infrastructure-system-config   20161101-lts1-
openvpn-systemd-resolved1.2.3-1   
plymouth0.9.2-4   
rasdaemon   0.5.8-1+b1
runit-systemd   2.1.2-9.2 
snapd   2.21-2+b1 
systemd-container   232-25+deb9u3 
systemd-coredump232-25+deb9u3 
systemd-cron1.5.8-1   
systemd-journal-remote  232-25+deb9u3 
systemd-tests   237-3~bpo9+1  
systemd-ui  3-4+b1 


..depends on lsb-base or systemd-sysv:
mandos  1.7.15-1  

..depends on consolekit-1 or systemd:
mate-power-manager  1.16.2-1+deb9u

..does not depend on systemd:
file-rc 0.8.18

> > 
> > ..going back to pkgmaster, I get these puzzling errors:
> > https://pastebin.com/Jg7jKjuS
> >  
> 
> Please read the errors in the log you have pasted. Those are all
> related to Contents.*.gz files, which are the files used by apt-file
> to tell you which package provides a certain file. Nothing to do with
> packages to be installed. You don't see those errors when you use
> packages.devuan.org simply because the old amprolla does not gerate
> those files at all (that's why apt-file didn't work at all until a few
> months ago, and works only if you use pkgmaster).
> 
> It seems that you have hit a glitch in the re-generation of those
> Contents files though. Parazyd fixed it. Please try again.

..https://pastebin.com/Nv7NXseD :o)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread KatolaZ 
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 06:31:45PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

[cut]

> 
> ..then all 3 should work perfectly fine in my /etc/apt/sources.list.
> Trying auto.mirror, I was offered updateable tzdata (2018d-0+deb9u1)
> and libdatetime-timezone-perl (1:2.09-1+2018d), which I updated, and 
> 28 "New", 26 depending on systemd and 2 non-systemd depending packages,
> all of which I rejected. 
>

Can you please post the list of those packages depending on systemd
(with the corresponding version)?

> 
> ..going back to pkgmaster, I get these puzzling errors:
> https://pastebin.com/Jg7jKjuS
>

Please read the errors in the log you have pasted. Those are all
related to Contents.*.gz files, which are the files used by apt-file
to tell you which package provides a certain file. Nothing to do with
packages to be installed. You don't see those errors when you use
packages.devuan.org simply because the old amprolla does not gerate
those files at all (that's why apt-file didn't work at all until a few
months ago, and works only if you use pkgmaster).

It seems that you have hit a glitch in the re-generation of those
Contents files though. Parazyd fixed it. Please try again.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread Arnt Karlsen 
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 15:49:13 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20180430144913.ge26...@katolaz.homeunix.net>:

> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 04:31:33PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > 
> > ..seeing all this security talk and _no_ "Upgradeable" suggetions 
> > with pkgmaster.devuan.org lines in my /etc/apt/sources.list, I 
> > checked both amprolla type mirrors, https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/ 
> > and https://packages.devuan.org/ ,  and found missing /pool/ and 
> > /indices/ trees down https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ that 
> > are present in https://packages.devuan.org/merged/ and
> > https://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/
> >   
> 
> Sorry but what are you talking about? o_O
> 
> Amprolla is working correctly, and both packages.devuan.org and
> pkgmaster.devuan.org are working perfectly fine :)

..then all 3 should work perfectly fine in my /etc/apt/sources.list.
Trying auto.mirror, I was offered updateable tzdata (2018d-0+deb9u1)
and libdatetime-timezone-perl (1:2.09-1+2018d), which I updated, and 
28 "New", 26 depending on systemd and 2 non-systemd depending packages,
all of which I rejected. 


..going back to pkgmaster, I get these puzzling errors:
https://pastebin.com/Jg7jKjuS

..my /etc/apt/sources.list: https://pastebin.com/ftUKkNYM


> Only components under "/devuan" have a "/pool". Components under
> "/merged" don't (and never did) have a /pool. The provision of
> packages under "/merged" has always been based on http redirects.
> 
> But this is nothing new: this is just how amprolla (old and new) has
> always worked. All the packages that are not forked by Devuan are
> pulled directly from Debian.
> 
> Suggestion: just have a look at:
> 
>   apt-cache show devuan-keyring
> 
> and at:
> 
>   apt-cache show debian-keyring
> 
> Can you spot the difference? :) [*]
> 
> HTH
> 
> KatolaZ
> 
> 
> 
> [*] Hint-Hint: look at the Filename: field
> 


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread KatolaZ 
On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 04:31:33PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> ..seeing all this security talk and _no_ "Upgradeable" suggetions 
> with pkgmaster.devuan.org lines in my /etc/apt/sources.list, I 
> checked both amprolla type mirrors, https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/ 
> and https://packages.devuan.org/ ,  and found missing /pool/ and 
> /indices/ trees down https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ that 
> are present in https://packages.devuan.org/merged/ and
> https://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/
> 

Sorry but what are you talking about? o_O

Amprolla is working correctly, and both packages.devuan.org and
pkgmaster.devuan.org are working perfectly fine :)

Only components under "/devuan" have a "/pool". Components under
"/merged" don't (and never did) have a /pool. The provision of
packages under "/merged" has always been based on http redirects.

But this is nothing new: this is just how amprolla (old and new) has
always worked. All the packages that are not forked by Devuan are
pulled directly from Debian.

Suggestion: just have a look at:

  apt-cache show devuan-keyring

and at:

  apt-cache show debian-keyring

Can you spot the difference? :) [*]

HTH

KatolaZ



[*] Hint-Hint: look at the Filename: field

-- 
[ ~.,_  Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab  ]  
[ "+.  katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it  ]
[   @)   http://kalos.mine.nu ---  Devuan GNU + Linux User  ]
[ @@)  http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia --  GPG: 0B5F062F  ] 
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Re: [DNG] ..pkgmaster.devuan.org is dead? Is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?

2018-04-30 Thread Arnt Karlsen 
On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 16:31:33 +0200, Arnt wrote in message 
<20180430163133.06f78f3d@d44>:

> Hi,
> 
> 
> ..seeing all this security talk and _no_ "Upgradeable" suggetions 
> with pkgmaster.devuan.org lines in my /etc/apt/sources.list, I 
> checked both amprolla type mirrors, https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/ 
> and https://packages.devuan.org/ ,  and found missing /pool/ and 
> /indices/ trees down https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ that 
> are present in https://packages.devuan.org/merged/ and
> https://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/
> 
> 
> ..is the amprolla3 service down, or moved somewhere else?  
> 
> 
> ..just 2 reason pkgmaster.devuan.org ougtta work:
> https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/upgrade-to-ascii
> https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii
> 


..and this I could have put in this thread:
On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 09:47:08 +0100, KatolaZ wrote in message 
<20180421084708.gu2...@katolaz.homeunix.net> with Subject: 
Re: [DNG] which package repository mirror to use?:
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 10:29:23AM +0200, David Kuehling wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > just wondering what sources.list I should use for upgrading devuan
> > ascii.  Depending on where I look I find either
> > 
> >  http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged
> > 
> > or
> > 
> >  http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/
> > 
> > There seem to be slight differences in the packages they hold (maybe
> > just due to latency when mirrors synchronize?)
> > 
> > I'm currently using the latter server.  
> 
> 
> *.mirror.devuan.org, amprolla.devuan.org, and packages.devuan.org are
> based on the original amprolla, which takes about 20 hours to do a
> merge. So these can be late on updates.
> 
> pkgmaster.devuan.org, deb.devuan.org and *.deb.devuan.org are a new
> set of mirrors (14 in total) all based on the second amprolla rewrite
> (amprolla3), which does a full merge in a few minutes and incremental
> ones in a few seconds (every 2 minutes).
> 
> The latter set of mirrors will be the default for ascii. They can also
> be used in jessie, but you need to install a recent devuan-keyring
> package for that. 
> 
> HTH
> 
> KatolaZ
> 




-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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