Re: [DNG] Ascii install in VM
On Fri, Mar 09, 2018 at 02:21:15PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: [cut] > > There is no way to force a package in an existing ASCII > > installation, besides forking, rebuilding > > If, for a distribution, rebuilding a package with a single-word diff, is an > issue, then it's a far bigger problem than bad deps of wicd. > Yes, we know, everything is easy and straightforward, especially when somebody else should take care of it while you are busy with other more important business :) Anyway, there is an amended wicd package in ascii-proposed (1.7.4+tb2-4+devuan1) with a hard dep on net-tools. The package should be in pkgmaster.devuan.org in a few minutes. Please test it and report any regression. It's quite hilarious that I ended up maintaining both wicd and network-manager for Devuan, given that I wrote setnet exclusively because I did not want to have anything to do with wicd and network-manager (and I haven't used either in the last 8+ years)... :P HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Ascii install in VM
On Fri, Mar 09, 2018 at 09:25:52AM +, KatolaZ wrote: > On Thu, Mar 08, 2018 at 11:42:06PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > > this simply re-establishes the same default as in Jessie. Which is a regression from Debian, IMO. net-tools have been deprecated for so long, that I believe they should have been removed from the default install at least a decade ago, instead of letting people dig themselves deeper into the hole and try to use it. > This does not solve the bug in wicd, which is due to the maintainer > believing that net-tools would have remained Priority: important Well, debates about the priority of net-tools are irrelevant to this bug. Papering it over in _some_ cases don't help fixing it. > > > Actually, the Debian source package still has the correct Priority: > > > important, while the binary strangely has Priority: optional ...o_O It > > > must have been a last-minute override in Stretch. > > > > It's only the override file what matters, the field in binary (not source) > > packages affects only the initial value; all updates currently need to be > > done by hand. That's an artefact of the way DAK works. > > This is why I see dak as a quite big overcomplication. I agree here; there's no real gain in being able to change priority without a sourceful upload. DAK conflates two pieces of information: "is package X allowed in the archive (or does it need to go to NEW)?" and "what's the priority field". It'd be nice to disentangle the two, but no one volunteers to do so, and I for one have my hands in too many pies already to do an adequate job for what I committed myself to doing, thus there's no way I go fixing this... > Debian is making a lot of fuss around "reproducible builds", and then > almost any property of the package you have just reproducibly built can > have been mangled with by dak just before entering the repo, effectively > making your package function *differently* from the stock package you get > from Debian's repos... Uhm, nope. On stretch: apt download wicd dpkg-deb -I net-tools_1.60+git20161116.90da8a0-1_amd64.deb Priority: important The .deb is unmodified from what was built. The override affects only apt's list; the package is bit-to-bit identical with what you'd get by building it with the same build-dep versions (although I'm not sure if reproducible toolchain was in place for stretch). The package functions the same once installed, it just doesn't get installed by default. > > > Please test the "new" package. I guess we will include the > > > ascii-proposed version in ascii straight away. > > > > Without even looking, I can tell you it won't work: priority:Important > > packages don't get included on existing installs (neither on upgrades nor > > when you install wicd on a machine that used no or another way to set up > > wifi). net-tools will be also absent on minimal installs. > > It will work on new installations, and re-establishes the same default > as in Jessie. Only within straightforward use cases. I can tell you about a certain piece of software that is also advertised to work adequately in straightforward use cases, but I guess its name is a swear word here. :) > There is no way to force a package in an existing ASCII > installation, besides forking, rebuilding If, for a distribution, rebuilding a package with a single-word diff, is an issue, then it's a far bigger problem than bad deps of wicd. > and maintaining wicd as well. As I understand, Devuan would need to keep rebuilding wicd for the lifetime of stretch/ascii in case of security and point release updates -- but those are pretty rare, and expected number of such updates for a package that's not imagemagick or libxml is very close to 0. There's no extra burden as you already need to set up some kind of notification for every package you modified. > Do you volunteer to do that? That would be helpful. Alas, I don't use stretch/ascii on any keyboard-attached machines, thus I'm not a good person to handle old versions of wicd. I also don't know Devuan's workflow enough. Molesting wicd's maintainer about a stable update, so it's fixed in both stretch and ascii, could be a good idea, though. > > This is #881225 by the way, fixed in buster but not stretch. > > Great, but ASCII merges stretch, not Buster, you know At least you know it's not an issue for Beowulf. :) Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ A dumb species has no way to open a tuna can. ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ A smart species invents a can opener. ⠈⠳⣄ A master species delegates. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Ascii install in VM
On Thu, Mar 08, 2018 at 11:42:06PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: [cut] > > > > Just an update on this: there will soon be a "new" net-tools in > > ascii-proposed (version 1.60+git20161116.90da8a0-1+devuan1), with the > > correct Priority: important. > > Uhm, why? This doesn't solve the bug — priority affects only defaults. > If package foo requires bar to function, it needs Depends: bar (or an > equivalent, such as bar being Essential: yes). > Hi Adam, this simply re-establishes the same default as in Jessie. This does not solve the bug in wicd, which is due to the maintainer believing that net-tools would have remained Priority: important (hence installed uder almost all circumstances except possibly for the minimal install, where wicd does not belong anyway), while it was shifted to Piority: optional just before stretch entereed freeze. > > Actually, the Debian source package still has the correct Priority: > > important, while the binary strangely has Priority: optional ...o_O It > > must have been a last-minute override in Stretch. > > It's only the override file what matters, the field in binary (not source) > packages affects only the initial value; all updates currently need to be > done by hand. That's an artefact of the way DAK works. This is why I see dak as a quite big overcomplication. Debian is making a lot of fuss around "reproducible builds", and then almost any property of the package you have just reproducibly built can have been mangled with by dak just before entering the repo, effectively making your package function *differently* from the stock package you get from Debian's repos... This is just *sick*, IMHO. > > > Please test the "new" package. I guess we will include the > > ascii-proposed version in ascii straight away. > > Without even looking, I can tell you it won't work: priority:Important > packages don't get included on existing installs (neither on upgrades nor > when you install wicd on a machine that used no or another way to set up > wifi). net-tools will be also absent on minimal installs. > It will work on new installations, and re-establishes the same default as in Jessie. There is no way to force a package in an existing ASCII installation, besides forking, rebuilding and maintaining wicd as well. Do you volunteer to do that? That would be helpful. > This is #881225 by the way, fixed in buster but not stretch. > > Great, but ASCII merges stretch, not Buster, you know HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Ascii install in VM
On Thu, Mar 08, 2018 at 10:18:14AM +, KatolaZ wrote: > On Sun, Mar 04, 2018 at 10:03:20PM +, KatolaZ wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 04, 2018 at 05:34:44PM +, Rowland Penny wrote: > > > If Devuan wants to continue using wicd, I think it is going to have to > > > install net-tools as part of the install. > > > > thanks. Bottom line is: we should Recommends: net-tools every time a > > task Recommends: wicd. This has been reported by a couple more > > users. The issue has arisen since net-tools is not any more Priority: > > standard in Stretch, so it won't get installed in the base system. We > > could indeed just fork the package and increase its priority, solving > > the problem once and for all. We'll discuss that and go for the most > > reasonable alternative ;) > > Just an update on this: there will soon be a "new" net-tools in > ascii-proposed (version 1.60+git20161116.90da8a0-1+devuan1), with the > correct Priority: important. Uhm, why? This doesn't solve the bug — priority affects only defaults. If package foo requires bar to function, it needs Depends: bar (or an equivalent, such as bar being Essential: yes). > Actually, the Debian source package still has the correct Priority: > important, while the binary strangely has Priority: optional ...o_O It > must have been a last-minute override in Stretch. It's only the override file what matters, the field in binary (not source) packages affects only the initial value; all updates currently need to be done by hand. That's an artefact of the way DAK works. > Please test the "new" package. I guess we will include the > ascii-proposed version in ascii straight away. Without even looking, I can tell you it won't work: priority:Important packages don't get included on existing installs (neither on upgrades nor when you install wicd on a machine that used no or another way to set up wifi). net-tools will be also absent on minimal installs. This is #881225 by the way, fixed in buster but not stretch. Meow! -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ A dumb species has no way to open a tuna can. ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ A smart species invents a can opener. ⠈⠳⣄ A master species delegates. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Ascii install in VM
On Sun, Mar 04, 2018 at 10:03:20PM +, KatolaZ wrote: > On Sun, Mar 04, 2018 at 05:34:44PM +, Rowland Penny wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > Thinking laterally, I removed 'wicd wicd-gtk wicd-daemon python-wicd > > wpasupplicant' and rebooted. I now had my fixed IP. Re-installed the > > packages I had removed and rebooted again, wicd now worked correctly. > > > > If Devuan wants to continue using wicd, I think it is going to have to > > install net-tools as part of the install. > > > > Rowland > > Hi Rowland, > > thanks. Bottom line is: we should Recommends: net-tools every time a > task Recommends: wicd. This has been reported by a couple more > users. The issue has arisen since net-tools is not any more Priority: > standard in Stretch, so it won't get installed in the base system. We > could indeed just fork the package and increase its priority, solving > the problem once and for all. We'll discuss that and go for the most > reasonable alternative ;) > Just an update on this: there will soon be a "new" net-tools in ascii-proposed (version 1.60+git20161116.90da8a0-1+devuan1), with the correct Priority: important. The package is unmodified from Debian, just rebuilt. Actually, the Debian source package still has the correct Priority: important, while the binary strangely has Priority: optional ...o_O It must have been a last-minute override in Stretch. Please test the "new" package. I guess we will include the ascii-proposed version in ascii straight away. My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Ascii install in VM
I have to do ifdown ifup every time I start my VM On 05/03/18 06:34, Rowland Penny wrote: I installed Ascii in VM with a fixed IP and the install went without any problems or errors, but when it rebooted, there was no network. I checked and the ipaddress was set to '192.168.0.36/24' and there wasn't a netmask setting. Removed the '/24' and added 'netmask 255.255.255.0' Restarted wicd, but still no network, so checked the wicd log and found this: 2018/03/04 16:24:39 :: Running command ['ifconfig', 'eth0' failed: [Errno 2] No such file or directory Bit of a chicken and egg situation here ;-) No network because net-tools isn't installed and I need network to install net-tools Thinking laterally, I removed 'wicd wicd-gtk wicd-daemon python-wicd wpasupplicant' and rebooted. I now had my fixed IP. Re-installed the packages I had removed and rebooted again, wicd now worked correctly. If Devuan wants to continue using wicd, I think it is going to have to install net-tools as part of the install. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Ascii install in VM
On Sun, Mar 04, 2018 at 05:34:44PM +, Rowland Penny wrote: [cut] > > Thinking laterally, I removed 'wicd wicd-gtk wicd-daemon python-wicd > wpasupplicant' and rebooted. I now had my fixed IP. Re-installed the > packages I had removed and rebooted again, wicd now worked correctly. > > If Devuan wants to continue using wicd, I think it is going to have to > install net-tools as part of the install. > > Rowland Hi Rowland, thanks. Bottom line is: we should Recommends: net-tools every time a task Recommends: wicd. This has been reported by a couple more users. The issue has arisen since net-tools is not any more Priority: standard in Stretch, so it won't get installed in the base system. We could indeed just fork the package and increase its priority, solving the problem once and for all. We'll discuss that and go for the most reasonable alternative ;) My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
