Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[hal]

chill...@use.startmail.com wrote on 01/04/2016 05:29 AM:
> # Devuan News Issue LX

> 
> In case you wondered, yes Devuan is alive and kicking. Devuan Weekly News 
> hasn't released a 
> single issue since last June. We're very sorry about that. Did you miss it? 
> [Tell us!][feedback]


Definitely appreciate the work being put into this. It's hard to keep up with 
the traffic on the list so having an overview like this is certainly helpful. 
Thanks!
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX (Errata)

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 16:53:00 +, hellekin wrote in message 
<568aa36c.9010...@dyne.org>:

> On 01/04/2016 03:07 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> >>
> >> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-news/wikis/past-issues/volume-03/issue-060
> >>
> >> tips about UUID's][2], Arnt Karlsen talked about the [purpose of
> > 
> > ..er, I did not, I asked the (I believe timely) question
> > "..where did the "/media tradition" come from anyway? "
> > and thenafter it was Stephanie Daugherty who _answered_ 
> > my question by talking about said purpose.
> >
> 
> Thank you for this correction, Arnt.  It's been corrected on the Web
> version.

...with the "overstruck(Arnt Karlson) Stephanie Daugherty" 
revenge. ;o)  Try "Stephanie Daugherty" the way you should 
have in the first place. ;o)


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Haines Brown]

On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 02:43:57PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:
> ...
> We are discovering day after day that "init freedom" is about
> the emerged part of the iceberg. Debian still pretends to offer init
> freedom. What is under the sea level is a whole monolithic operating
> system absorbing all critical Linux subsystems like a black hole.
> Therefore escaping this monster means much more than init freedom,
> it is something like keeping a free Linux/Gnu OS.

Didier, as a lurker, can I ask what elements besides systemd and udev do
you think define this black hole? Is there a consensus over this?

Haines Brown
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Didier Kryn]

Le 04/01/2016 12:29, chill...@use.startmail.com a écrit :

# Devuan News Issue LX

__Volume 03, Week 1, Devuan Week 60__

Released 12016/1/04

https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-news/wikis/past-issues/volume-03/issue-060

## Editorial

Happy new year from the Devuan news team!

In case you wondered, yes Devuan is alive and kicking. Devuan Weekly News 
hasn't released a single issue since last June.
We're very sorry about that. Did you miss it? [Tell us!][feedback]


Happy New year to the team of Devuan Weekly News. Yes we missed 
you. Wondered if you were discouraged by the huge amount of off-topic 
threads...



Aside from the growing strength of the community, we have seen significant 
progress towards init freedom in Devuan and the approaching beta release. 
Important init freedom issues have been solved, and security issues will soon 
come into focus with an eye on the beta release for critical security updates. 
We are calling for volunteers on this, so feel free to discuss this on the 
mailing list.



We are discovering day after day that "init freedom" is about the 
emerged part of the iceberg. Debian still pretends to offer init 
freedom. What is under the sea level is a whole monolithic operating 
system absorbing all critical Linux subsystems like a black hole. 
Therefore escaping this monster means much more than init freedom, it is 
something like keeping a free Linux/Gnu OS.


It makes more sense every day that RedHat and Debian should rename 
their OS Systemd/Linux in place of Gnu/Linux. It should make sense to 
them as well, but I'm afraid they deny the reality.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Simon Wise]

On 05/01/16 00:43, Didier Kryn wrote:

Le 04/01/2016 12:29, chill...@use.startmail.com a écrit :



Aside from the growing strength of the community, we have seen significant
progress towards init freedom in Devuan and the approaching beta release.
Important init freedom issues have been solved, and security issues will soon
come into focus with an eye on the beta release for critical security updates.
We are calling for volunteers on this, so feel free to discuss this on the
mailing list.



We are discovering day after day that "init freedom" is about the emerged part
of the iceberg. Debian still pretends to offer init freedom. What is under the
sea level is a whole monolithic operating system absorbing all critical Linux
subsystems like a black hole. Therefore escaping this monster means much more
than init freedom, it is something like keeping a free Linux/Gnu OS.

It makes more sense every day that RedHat and Debian should rename their OS
Systemd/Linux in place of Gnu/Linux. It should make sense to them as well, but
I'm afraid they deny the reality.


There was a very aggressive push to drop the GNU from the GNU/linux name some 
time ago, it was fairly successful. But of course android/linux is just as much 
linux as any other system with linux as the kernel (and because of that I can 
compile a suitable busybox, put it in the right context and get a really useful 
tablet). Though certainly it is no *nix. Many other routers, fridges, cars or 
desktop computers are linux. It is the GNU part that makes one or other of them 
a *nix, it is that part that is being steadily undone alongside the introduction 
of systemd. Much more so than OSX (the last time I looked anyway) where its 
toolchain underneath the GUI is still very unix.


Apple and Google have the resources to make a decent effort at a big, unified, 
locked-down, we-know-what-you-need-just-shut-up-and-consume, GUI dominated 
system. If I wanted a unix like that I'd use OSX and drop in some of the tools 
that Apple leave out by default, they do fashion and consistent GUI behaviour 
much better.



Simon

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 11:29:34 -, chill...@use.startmail.com wrote in
message <7ece505dfe773438d59e85b68f9a7b45.startm...@www.startmail.com>:

> # Devuan News Issue LX
> 
> __Volume 03, Week 1, Devuan Week 60__
> 
> Released 12016/1/04
> 
> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-news/wikis/past-issues/volume-03/issue-060
> 
> ## Editorial

...

> ### [A discussion about mount-points] [1]
> 
> Steve Litt asked about the preferred behaviour for an auto-mounter
> program he is writing in relation to his Python presentation at
> GoLUG, and the discussion that followed turns out to be instructive
> for managing mount points. Teodoro Santoni's comments provide [useful
> tips about UUID's][2], Arnt Karlsen talked about the [purpose of

..er, I did not, I asked the (I believe timely) question
"..where did the "/media tradition" come from anyway? "
and thenafter it was Stephanie Daugherty who _answered_ 
my question by talking about said purpose.

> the /media directory][3] and Adam Borowski expanded on this by
> explaining the [security implications behind the mount point
> structures][4].

...

> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151225.174135.dd74c0ab.en.html
> "Steve Litt asks about prefered auto mounter behaviour" [2]:
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151225.235048.e944f0dd.en.html
> "Teodoro Santoni talked about labels and UUID's" [3]:
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151225.213258.2828fd28.en.html
> "Arnt Karlsen talked about the purpose of the /media directory" [4]:
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151226.054012.e204f2e8.en.html
> "Adam Borowski explained the security implications of /media
> and /mnt" [5]:


-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Didier Kryn]

Le 04/01/2016 15:29, Haines Brown a écrit :

On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 02:43:57PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:

...
 We are discovering day after day that "init freedom" is about
the emerged part of the iceberg. Debian still pretends to offer init
freedom. What is under the sea level is a whole monolithic operating
system absorbing all critical Linux subsystems like a black hole.
Therefore escaping this monster means much more than init freedom,
it is something like keeping a free Linux/Gnu OS.

Didier, as a lurker, can I ask what elements besides systemd and udev do
you think define this black hole? Is there a consensus over this?


From the beginning, there is also syslog, some integration of the 
display-manager to have the xwindow server running under user's account. 
udev and dbus are being absorbed, which was not announced initially 
There are other things I have read on this list, but I don't remember 
them... It's much more than an init program.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Nate Bargmann]

SD now includes a replacement for running ntp/ntpdate to synchronize
time so that is being absorbed.  It's probably a wash and low on most
desktop users list, but one more example of SD becoming your complete
middleware system!

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Svante Signell]

On Mon, 2016-01-04 at 09:29 -0500, Haines Brown wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 02:43:57PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:
> > ...
> > We are discovering day after day that "init freedom" is about
> > the emerged part of the iceberg. Debian still pretends to offer init
> > freedom. What is under the sea level is a whole monolithic operating
> > system absorbing all critical Linux subsystems like a black hole.
> > Therefore escaping this monster means much more than init freedom,
> > it is something like keeping a free Linux/Gnu OS.
> 
> Didier, as a lurker, can I ask what elements besides systemd and udev do
> you think define this black hole? Is there a consensus over this?

Now they are also pushing hard for the RH invention UsrMerge, see 
https://packages.debian.org/sid/main/usrmerge and the discussion on debian-
devel.

In my opinion the change should be the other way around (as GNU/Hurd tried to do
a few years ago): ln -s /usr /, i.e. files in /usr/bin/ and /usr/sbin/ should be
moved to /bin/ and /sbin/, respectively. Same for /usr/lib to /lib etc. (of
course successively).
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Rainer Weikusat]

Nate Bargmann  writes:
> SD now includes a replacement for running ntp/ntpdate to synchronize
> time so that is being absorbed.

According to information 'from the internet', that's an SNTP client and

While a full featured NTP server or -client reaches a very high
level of accuracy and avoids abrupt timesteps as much as
possible by using different mathematical and statistical methods
and smooth clock speed adjustments, SNTP can only be recommended
for simple applications, where the requirements for accuracy and
reliability are not too demanding.

By disregarding drift values and using simplified ways of system
clock adjustment methods (often simple time stepping), SNTP
archieves only a low quality time synchronization when compared
with a full NTP implementation.

https://www.meinbergglobal.com/english/faq/faq_37.htm

This then (finally!) achieves something certain people have been pushing
for for a long time, namely, it renders the 'wallclock' useless for
sychronizing operations of distributed systems by turning it into a PRNG
(which may randomly jump backward and forward according to the whims of
the SNTP implementation).
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX (Errata)

[hellekin]

On 01/04/2016 03:07 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>>
>> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-news/wikis/past-issues/volume-03/issue-060
>>
>> tips about UUID's][2], Arnt Karlsen talked about the [purpose of
> 
> ..er, I did not, I asked the (I believe timely) question
> "..where did the "/media tradition" come from anyway? "
> and thenafter it was Stephanie Daugherty who _answered_ 
> my question by talking about said purpose.
>

Thank you for this correction, Arnt.  It's been corrected on the Web
version.

==
hk

--
 _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
(_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/
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Re: [DNG] Devuan Weekly News LX

[Mitt Green]

Simon Wise wrote:

>There was a very aggressive push to drop the GNU from the GNU/linux name some
>time ago, it was fairly successful. But of course android/linux is just as much
>linux as any other system with linux as the kernel (and because of that I can
>compile a suitable busybox, put it in the right context and get a really useful
>tablet). Though certainly it is no *nix. Many other routers, fridges, cars or
>desktop computers are linux. It is the GNU part that makes one or other of them
>a *nix, it is that part that is being steadily undone alongside the 
>introduction
>of systemd. Much more so than OSX (the last time I looked anyway) where its
>toolchain underneath the GUI is still very unix.

Hehe,

>Android (operating system)
>Developer: Google
>Written in: C, C++, Java
>OS family: Unix-like

There's certainly something Unix-ish in Android apart from the kernel; 'tis a 
Unix filesystem,
a shell (mksh) and Unix programmes (what in GNU people call coreutils).

OSX is still Unix, and we can compile (pretty much) everything we use now on 
GNU/Linux
on OSX. Think of OpenDarwin with Xfce, or pkgsrc on OSX. What it moves away 
from Unix
is the UI. But the same we can say about Unity, GNOME, Cinnamon and KDE.


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