[e-gold-list] Re: The Gold Casino Share Price Chart and DGC Industry Stat Charts
The Gold Economy wrote: TGE has also started a new weekly column that will show the latest digital currency statistics charts every Monday morning. Pretty good charts. I can take in the big picture fast. Any chance of having a tally in tons, in text, at the bottom of the graphs so a comparison (in my mind) can be made to cental bank holdings and the worlds known above ground inventories? Those 2 items being normally expressed in tons. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] tons of gold
Jim Davidson wrote: Dear Bob, Those 2 items being normally expressed in tons. Yes, they are. The e-gold inventory is expressed in ounces. Conversion is as follows: 50,742.69 ounces divided by 12 to get pounds troy (12 ounces troy to the pound troy) = 4228.557 pounds troy. I wonder what figures you believe accurately express the central bank holdings for, e.g., the US Treasury or the Federal Reserve? I'm somewhat doubtful of their claims. I don't pay a lot of attention to those figures as the US numbers are quite phony, and other central banks come up with surprise announcements sometimes so that everybody has to make an adjustment to their guesses. If a central bank only has half of what they say they do, then some other entity(s) has the other half. So total known gold amounts are the better thing to track, at least for me. They hardly change except for about a 2% average increase/yr over the long long run. 165,000 ton seems like a good about figure for gold in the world, from what I've read. times 2000 lbs/ton = 330,000,000 lbs times 12 oz/lb = 3,960,000,000 ozs times $400/oz = $1,58400,000,000 Call it $1.6 trillion worth of gold in the world. This number is close to what I've read a number of times. That's a very small number compared to bonds in the world, or equities in the world, or, how about an estimate for derivatives by the BIS (I think it was) which was around $170 trillion, + or - 5 or 10 trillion if I remember right. Compared to estimates of totals of different types of wealth in the world, $1.6 trill ain't nothin. And I'm not considering derivatives as wealth. They're just bombs. They are passing on risk to who? To each other? In which case they don't pass on risk if they are taking it on again from somebody else. To a single entity that can take all the risk and still stay standing? There's no entity in the world big enough for that. Just more fraud. There's going to be some really big downsides to really big gold and silver prices. It ain't going to be pretty. bob A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader. -- Samuel Adams --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] ?
Sidd, At: http://pecunix.com/money.refined...ref.pgpkey -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- is normally display on a separate line. In the bowser view it's not. If I go to 'view source' in my browser, I see that -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- is separated from the key block, or on a line of code above a spaced line. This isn't normal for keys on browser pages that are importable into PGP. textarea cols=44 rows=8 name=pgp wrap=off readonly class=pgp This I've never seen. Anyways, the keys won't import into my PGP program. I forget the code for making a PGP key copyable from a .html page. Nowadays, I just paste a public key into a .txt file and send it to the server. Just another thing to add to your list. Bob -- http://www.construction.com/ Construction.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.construction.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Affordable advertising
Submit your e-gold web site free of charge at http://www.ecurrencylinks.com Affordable banner advertising (from $1/day). Free $9 sign-up bonus for everyone! BOB. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Jim Sinclair
Sunday, November 09, 2003, 9:05:00 PM EST COT Trots Out Trojan For Last Time? Author: Jim Sinclair Inadvertently, I believe, but still detrimental to the Gold Community at large, is the latest Trojan horse to be rolled out of the COT stable. It appeared in a Gold Eagle article by Sol Palha who quotes Forbes as saying, The Journals coverage of tax matters focuses on a provision to allow US multinationals a one year window to repatriate profits from abroad at a reduced tax rate of 5.25% instead of the current 35% rate. The bill will also eliminate a tax exemption for Americans working abroad. The article goes on to interpret this tax loophole as a means of bulling the dollar higher into the 2004 election. After carefully laying the foundation for his follow-up recommendation, Palha advises his clients to sell gold and gold shares. I already answered this issue in detail in last weeks article, Jim Answers Richard Russells Question. However, because I am receiving Emergency communications from terrified Gold Community members, I will again give you the skinny on what this really is and its potential impact on gold. This tax legislation is a purely pork barrel effort designed to benefit select recipients before the 2004 election. (Nothing really new here!). However, this particular effort is being seriously misinterpreted by the writer and is not significantly dollar positive or gold negative in the least. Heres why * The amount of funds that can be affected by this legislation are estimated at $150 billion to $300 billion. * These funds would trade in the inter-bank market for currency. * Money repatriated in a legal tax laundry loophole can be expatriated the next day, zeroing the slight impact the trade might have. * The size of the inter-bank market for currency is estimated by the Saint Louis Federal Reserve at one trillion dollars per day. So what is the big deal about even $300 billion over 365 days? * The writer may not know it, but tax treaties exist between the US and almost every major economy in the world. Under these tax treaties, double taxation is significantly modified by making the taxes paid to one nation deductible from US taxes. Because of this, the effective rate in this type of a situation is far from 35%. So the arithmetic of this legislation is intriguing as it is with any other legislation proposed by this administration. It leads me to believe that some US Fat Cats are getting a gift in this pork barrel tax bill that will allow them to repatriate funds that in fact might not be taxed at all but is needed here in the US. Keep in mind that the Grand Cayman Islands has a Zero tax rate so funds there have been taxed but at the zero rate. My financial detective sense of follow the politically favored money makes this special interest pork barrel tax bill smell like a tax laundering mechanism. One thing this tax bill is NOT is dollar bullish and gold bearish. So forget the nonsense making the rounds in the Gold Community and get ready for the real play in gold thats coming soon to a theatre near you. Beware of the self-styled gold experts with no experience in foreign exchange markets or any other market for that matter. Intellectual knowledge is dangerous when its laid upon the real world of trading. Analytical knowledge is good but those that have it in many cases simply do not understand the mechanics of markets and often get lost because of their inexperience. Generally half- experienced geniuses become half-assed advisors. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: wow ... gold taking off again
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: notice, again - very unusually - an actual move in gold is happening in the overseas markets (Sydney/HK!) (Bob - if this is a 'real move', if it is trading much higher than where it left the scene in NY last time, we'll see that reliable thing again where the NY pit trades it right down to yesterdays ie NY close, before they let it run up again. We don't want no steenking gaps!) The overnite traders are awfully brave to do anything on their own, we'll see what happens... It could be: From Jim Sinclair Sunday, November 09, 2003, 3:00:00 AM EST Gold is appreciating nicely in Asia at this time, raising the probability that it will better $400 this week. There is inviting evidence that the current buyers represent the commercial interests that are identified as COT. The short cover may well have started. Look for closing strength in the US session to confirm that the shorts are running for cover. Clearly, such a development can easily take gold well into the $400s. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Ya, baby!
Jim Davidson wrote: Dear Bob, Hi. Interesting cross post. I wonder if goldmember will accept my posting? Na. But you can signup here: http://www.mobilesilver.com/ Nothing off topic. You can let 'er rip. Easy archives. and it stayed strange, but in a sweet way. Gold got knocked down $4 at the opening but an hour and a half later completely recovered. Went up another 2. Got knocked down 2. Hour and a half later, complete recovery and then some. Went out almost at the days high with a gain of 2 1/2 for the day. I can't remember that type of action. Bullish or what? Silver, at about 3:00 am gets knocked down almost $5. Hour and a half, complete recovery. At the NY open, shoots up almost $6, doing the opposite of gold. Gets knocked down $7. Makes complete recovery in about hour and a half. A little back and forth. Near the close, up 5 and holds for a gain of 10 for the day. Not even a hint of selling at the close. It was close but yesterday and today silver held at the bottom of its triangle by the skin of its teeth. Bullish or what? I can't remember this type multi complete recovery action, in both metals, nor even one, in the same day. Not even when Paul O'Neil was in charge of the Treasury and gold was going up. Must have got his butt fired 'cause he didn't use the ESF. This is cartel fingernails slipping type action. A sad day for Snow. The iron laws of economics are setting in even harder. And the dollar is down a dollar. That's a good sized move. Think I'll go out and have me some wood cooked meat and pasta with wine, lemon and garlic to celebrate. The leftovers in the fridge can just sit there. Ya Baby! Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] e-gold funded ATM cash cards (WMcards)
You can get your own e-currency debit card at www.wmcards.com. Regards, Bob. Sales Team. See also: www.ecurrencylinks.com (free ecurrency directory) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Brand new e-currency directory - www.ecurrencylinks.com
Hi everybody, New online e-currency directory goes live. Free listing. http://www.ecurrencylinks.com Regards, Bob. WMcards.com Sales Team. http://www.wmcards.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Here is another scam letter!
Dear all, Below is another scam letter that was sent in to my inbox. Please be careful and don't reply to the similar messages. Yours, Bob Pavonia Subject: Your e-gold account has been disabled From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear e-gold member, we are sorry to inform you that we had to disable your account. After many unsuccessfull login attempts to your account, we shut it down to prevent any type of security breach to your account and our servers. Please use this link https://www.e-gold.com/ssl/cgi-bin/websrc=cmd?=_l2ej33 to Log In to your account using our SSL security server. Sincerely, Thomas Cooks https://www.e-gold.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] New e-gold ATM card provider
Offshore e-currency ATM card for $89. Currently it can be funded by e-gold and webmoney. More e-currencies will come soon. We offer online card ballance on our web site, notifications to your e-mail if the card balance is changed and, of course, monthly statemens to your e-mail. You can fund you card automatically from our web site. Also the card card can be funded by wire transfers. Card issuing takes only 2-5 business days, no need to wait for months before you will receive a it. More info on our web site at www.wmcards.com. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Any ideas?
Any ideas on why I can't get the confirm page when making an e-gold spend. I had to throw something to Potter for his latest opinion. Now a days I can't get the confirm page like a used to. I'm using Navigator 3.0 (like I used to). I have JavaScript turned on and I accept all cookies. I press the comfirm button. Then I get for a moment a transfer interupted text, then at: https://www.e-gold.com/sci_asp/pmtcommit.asp This form cannot be processed because your online session has timed out, or you have submitted an improper form. This error will also appear if you try to refresh a submitted order with your browser Payment processing was aborted. The system was unable to perform your request at this time, please try again in a few minutes. But, if I go check my e-gold account, I find that the spend was made. Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Maybe they're winning
George Matyjewicz wrote: Hi: Damn, a client just sent me a note about PayPal. Say what you want about them, they may be winning the digital currency battle. From their site... We seek to become the global standard for online payments, offering our list buster service to users in 38 countries including the United States. We have over 17 million registered users, including more than 3 million business accounts. Our account base is growing by an average of 28,000 accounts per day, with virtually no traditional sales or marketing. And yes, I do know all the issues like chargebacks, yada, yada, yada. Still 17 million accounts is quite impressive. George $ list buster ___ George Matyjewicz GAP Enterprises, Ltd. http://www.gapent.com/ Book Author and Doctoral Candidate in Training Moderator of E-Tailer's Digest http://www.etailersdigest.com/ Automated Press Releases http://www.automatedpr.com/ Marketing Your Web http://www.gapent.com/myweb/ Board Member AIB #34 http://www.aib-world.org/ George, Yup. They're on a roll. But they circulate USD. The US is on its (how'd I do, Patrick?) third currency. Which has lost 95% of its value. Why can't it lose the rest? Governments screw up. It's part of their nature. They can't help it. The bigger and more powerful they are, the bigger and more powerful their screwups. Ask those participants in the former USSR, or Argentina, more recently. When it finally happens, it should be quite the duzzy. PayPal will be like the BIS (Bank for International Settlement), all screwed up. And the Fed, too. And a lot of other central banks. Right now in the US, federal and state revenue is plunging, while federal spending is going up. Some states have told businesses and *individuals* that they're not getting their tax return payments. And that they don't know when. Ya ever hear of that one before? GDP is supposed to be a measure of value creation. Government spending is included. The Fed creates currency out of thin air and hands it over to the federal government in return for an IOU, and then the federal government spends it. In the whole scheme of things, once everything is added and subtracted, that's not value creation, despite its positive effect on the GDP number. What happened was that somebody (a lot of bodies) got screwed, stolen from. Their wealth got *consumed* by the federal government. That's not wealth/value creation. Ultimately that's bad for the USD. I expect this type of federal government action to accelerate. Is next year going to produce another fabonacci number for government spending? We have the first one down. Is the next number going to equal the sum of the two before it, like the last one did? There is this huge amount of federal, state, business and individual debt out there, the price to be paid of which doesn't go away, whether defaulted on or not. It doesn't matter that incomes go away. The piper still's godda be paid. The chart is too young to make much of it: http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=pyplsid=0o_symb=pyplx=65y=14 Hey, it's (how'd I do, Patrick?) gotten totally nutty out there. Ten years from now, things should look a lot different. Got metal? Bob The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but, made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law, become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederic Bastiat, The Law (1850) -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] DigiGold v. Systemics - Final Award
Subject: DigiGold v. Systemics - Final Award Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:36:34 -0400 From: IanG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the matter of DigiGold v. Systemics, the Arbitration (AAA) claim brought and filed in May 2001, at EFCE, by DigiGold.net Ltd, the Final Award was delivered this last Wednesday, 28th August 2002 by the Arbitrator. quote rule breaker We have not had much of a chance to analyse and form conclusions on the long document delivered, but the headline is very clear: None of the claims brought by DigiGold was upheld. That is, DigiGold's claims were denied by the Arbitrator. I offer my thanks to all those who supported us in the tough times of the last couple of years. We were lucky to have such a wide body of strong supporters, and also doubly lucky to find ourselves with counsel capable of absorbing and dominating the first test case in the now mature field of Financial Cryptography! quote rule breaker Notes: * Some claims by DigiGold were earlier dismissed early for lack of jurisdiction. * Systemics did not file a counter-claim. * Arbitration has no appeal, hence the title of Final Award. -- iang Too bad there is no 'castpoint for the Gold Money suit where those with the best perceptions and knowledge can get rewarded. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Remember Serpico?
Subject: FC: Famous former NYC cop laments loss of individual liberties Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:23:09 -0400 From: Declan McCullagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- From: Danny Yavuzkurt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Declan McCullagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Frank Serpico publicly criticizes 'anti-terrorism' measures Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 21:20:00 -0400 http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/nation/3612338.htm Very short article; merely a blurb, but I find it interesting that when he spoke out against the losses of freedom we've suffered in the 'fight against terrorism,' he was jeered at by the audience - the same audience that came to hear him read the Declaration of Independence. Does the hypocrisy of the American public know no bounds? How can these people be such sheep? -Danny Posted on Sat, Jul. 06, 2002 Serpico decries anti-terror measures Associated Press CHATHAM, N.Y. - Frank Serpico, the whistle-blowing ex-New York City cop, criticized the government's anti-terrorism measures at a July Fourth reading of the Declaration of Independence. It is my opinion that never before have we, as a nation, stood in greater danger of losing our individual liberties as we are today, he said. We, the people of this great nation, are being punished for the transgressions of our leaders and their consorts. Despite catcalls from the audience, he continued with his statement before moving on to the text of the historic document. When I still have the freedom to speak, I'll always use it, said Serpico, best known for fighting corruption within the police department in the 1960s. [...] - POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ - Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ - -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] minting
Now, Renaissance Minting provides minting services for Ricardian contracts. http://199.233.112.213/ The domain name (renaissanceminting.com) should resolve within another day. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] I figure it's too late
for the US to right itself. See my related February 03, 2002 This ain't pretty post at: http://www.bananagold.com/cgi-bin/columns.cgi?all David L. Littmann is chief economist of Comerica Bank. He sounds to me like he has become disgusted/sickened by what he is seeing. Despite being part of a defacto nationalised industry. Anybody got a freeish market type job for him? He might jump ship. Bob Will Capitalism Prevail Over The Politics Of Dependency? By David L. Littmann from the June 19, 2002 IBD Americans are increasingly reliant on government. For more than a century before Sept. 11, dependence on goverment spending programs, subsidies and trade protection - regardless of war or peace - has captured growing proportions of our population. This trend is still at work. A recent study by the Heritage Foundation found that dependency grew 117% over the past 40 years, by 38% over the past 20 years and by 9% just since George W. Bush took office. An that accounts only for federal dependency. Heritage puts the number of dependents at nearly 71 million today and notes that the growth rate of federal dependency since 1962 has risen three times faster than the US population. Decade Of Growth Strangely, this burgeoning dependency has occurred at a time when four factors should have contributed mightily to greater self-reliance and optimism. The end of the Cold War eased tensions and slashed defense spending. The 1990s featured a superb decade of economic growth and wealth accumulation. Reform after 1996 cut welfare rolls in half, converting former tax-absorbers into dignified taxpayers. And finally, the nation is blessed with an unusually large proportion of Americans in the baby boomer portion of the life cycle (ages 38-56), whose health and productivity should make them more economically independent. Yet, elected officials increasingly adopt policies that weaken wealth-creating economic incentives. It is axiomatic that faster real GDP growth contributes to larger government revenue collections, so one might think this would be a shared political-economic objective in a market economy. Clearly it is not. Despite copious increases in revenue to government coffers at all levels in the wake of three capital gains tax cuts since 1978, no further cuts are under consideration. Despite global evedence of the income - and revenue - enhancing power of broad-based income tax cuts (most recently in Ireland) these policies are off the table, too. Bad Politics Instead, governments are postponing scheduled tax cuts; raising taxes; adding layers of costly new fees and regulatory burdens; implementing price controls (especially in the pharmaceutical industry); and accelerating subsidies and deficit spending for social programs. Until recently, this dichotomy - where bad politics consistently over-whelmed good economics - was glibly explained by election imperatives. Said differently, populist class warfare and social justice themes were successful vote-getters. But, the economy decelerated, the stock market veered south and un-employment rates rose. Budgets at every government level slid sharply from suplus to deficit within 18 months and the outlook for GDP growth in the US and our trading partners has deteriorated. Therefore , politicians should be interested in restoring economic poliies that promote growth incentives. After all, if the long-term political objective is greater tax revenues for new government programs or to expand existing ones, then it would seem both economically and politically illogical to maim the economy. Yet higher taxes and more onerous regulations do just that. They harm incentives to work harder, longer, smarter and more productively. US competitiveness is reduced and our industries and house-holds are rendered more vulnerable to economic shocks. And, as a result, we are made more dependent on largess from the public sector. Failure to cut tax rates and relieve the economy of counter productive regulations thus seems quite illogical. So, is there another agenda? There certainly is. The agenda and the tactics of its deployment come most into focus when considering the time dimension. That dichotomy between bad politics and good economics tends to be resolved once it is understood that politicians typically have a time horizon of 18 to 24 months so that the benefits of their proposals become visible to constituents by Election Day. This is why most observers ascribe to politicians the shallower motivation of income redistribution and class equalization. But what's really at work, both in the short and long terms, is a much deeper threat to our economic future. The only way elected officials can contiue capturing larger proportions of the population in their webs of dependency is by throwing more monkey wrenches into the gears of a dynamic and competitive capitalism. Politicians Vs. Capitalism Sadly, it's no accident that politicians adopt policies antithetical to markets
[e-gold-list] Equities
at BananaGold's BGC: http://www.bananagold.com/ Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] The QQQ
Basically it's the 100 largest stocks on the NASDAQ. It recently went below it's Sept. '01 lows. This is big big news that I doubt the mass media has said anything about. But I don't know. I don't pay too much attention to them. When I do, I find it astounding the mindless Enquirer human interest type stuff they call news. Whether it's ABC, NBC or the front page of the Boston Globe. http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=qqqsid=o_symb=qqqfreq=1time=8x=33y=13 Indirectly bullish for the precious metals. Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The QQQ
Steve Schear wrote: A big time bomb may be brewing over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Both have used account sleight of hand to mask the quality of their assets and risk management techniques. Currently they are shield from SEC enquiry. If they come under real scrutiny then watch out economy. Whadda ya mean? Moody just gave them a clean bill of health the other day. You questioning Moody? :) Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] ... and your time is running out. - Ayn Rand
TALE OF THE FOURTH LIE - Antal E. Fekete http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_02/fekete061402.html I think Antal Fekete's other articles on the site are excellent also. Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Volume and resistance
at BananaGold's BGC: http://www.bananagold.com/ Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Domain for sale and translations.
Alexis Golzman wrote: I intend to sell the goldenraffle.com domain. Those interested in buying it, send me an offer. About translations: I can translate your web pages to Spanish for US$ 0.05 per word. Alexis, Interesting. How many types of Spanish are there in the world, and which one do you translate into? Best, Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] MSB
MSB (Money Survices Businesses) now include: * * * * * Currency Exchange * Stored Value Right on the home page: http://www.msb.gov/ Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] silver trading
If anybody is interested in subscribing to a silver trading service that I can provide, let me know. I'll gear up with short term trading software, real time data feeds for it, etc. Emails. A pass word protected site with screen captures, text, etc. About USD 300 (in today's dollars) worth of e-silver per year. If the purchasing power of silver gets out of hand, I'll lower the subscription cost. This is only a go if there are enough subscriptions to make it worth while. Bob Nugent (Bob's Gold Column at BananaGold.com) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: not as impressive as e-gold!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there have been (in total - not daily!) about a million bucks worth of transactions at 1mdcGrams. Not really as impressive as e-gold's $3 mllion per day! JP! Money is a 1.) store of value 2.) a medium of exchange and 3.) a unit of measure. The market might be saying that the high velocity could mean a money/currency is a good medium of exchange, but not so good a store of value. That there's some good in and out to get the job done (as in medium of exchange) going on, as apposed to the store of value aspect. I think it's too early for the unit of measure aspect to be operating in DGCs. Bob Defense is boring but wins championships in all walks of life. - Austin Passamonte --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: [dgc.chat] Sylvia Berndt rocks!
SnowDog wrote: Dear Sylvia, You rock! You are great. You forget to mention the very high esteem in which you are held by Charles Evans, Steve Foerster, and Ian Grigg (as I recall, off the top of my head). Charles Evans is her husband, so he has to say good things about her. :) I'm not her husband, so I don't have to. :) But I do. Sylvia is the 'Finest Kind'. Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Paul
... I would like to fully legalize competition in currencies. From the Congressman Ron Paul interview at: http://www.planetgold.com/ I never realized this till just recently, trying to get the interview on the site, but you need both Style Sheets and JavaScript turned on in your browser to get the full text affect of the interviews at planetgold.com. In case there are others like me who run around on the Web with nothing turned on in there browsers. Bob -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Defining Inflation
Take the symbol (word) for a cause and use for the cause's affect. Then the populace over time won't think about the cause. Or understand the cause. In this case it's government. Hey, good trick. Bob Subject: Defining Inflation Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:54:14 -0500 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- begin forwarded text Status: U From: Mises Institute [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Defining Inflation Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:04:03 CST http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=908http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=908 Defining Inflation by Frank Shostak [Posted March 8, 2002] On August 16, the U.S. government will debut of a new type of Consumer Price Index (CPI), one which it says will better reflect true inflation. Unlike the existing CPI, the new index will be subject to revisions as more detailed data become available. The regular CPI has long been criticized for overstating the actual rate of inflation. The hope is that, once the Fed is able to use more accurate information concerning general prices, it will be in a better position to use its tools to counter inflation. Is inflation about price rises? The fundamental problem here is a failure to define the problem properly. For example, the definition of human action is not that people are engaged in all sorts of activities, but that they are engaged in purposeful activities--purpose gives rise to an action. Similarly, the essence of inflation is not a general rise in prices but an increase in the supply of money, which in turns sets in motion a general increase in the prices of goods and services. Consider the case of a fixed money supply. Whenever people increase their demand for some goods and services, money will be allocated toward other goods. Thus, the prices of some goods will increase--i.e., more money will be spent on them--while the prices of other goods will fall--i.e., less money will be spent on them. If the demand for money increases against goods and services, there will be a general fall in prices. In order for an economy to experience a general rise in prices, there must be an increase in the money stock. With more money and no change in money demand, people can now allocate a greater amount of money for all goods and services. From this we can conclude that inflation is a general increase in the money supply. As Mises explained in his essay http://www.mises.org/efandi/ch20.aspInflation: An Unworkable Fiscal Policy: Inflation, as this term was always used everywhere and especially in this country, means increasing the quantity of money and bank notes in circulation and the quantity of bank deposits subject to check. But people today use the term inflation to refer to the phenomenon that is an inevitable consequence of inflation, that is the tendency of all prices and wage rates to rise. The result of this deplorable confusion is that there is no term left to signify the cause of this rise in prices and wages. There is no longer any word available to signify the phenomenon that has been, up to now, called inflation. . . . As you cannot talk about something that has no name, you cannot fight it. Those who pretend to fight inflation are in fact only fighting what is the inevitable consequence of inflation, rising prices. Their ventures are doomed to failure because they do not attack the root of the evil. They try to keep prices low while firmly committed to a policy of increasing the quantity of money that must necessarily make them soar. As long as this terminological confusion is not entirely wiped out, there cannot be any question of stopping inflation. When inflation is seen as a general rise in prices, then anything that contributes to price increases is called inflationary. It is no longer the central bank and fractional-reserve banking that are the sources of inflation, but rather various other causes. In this framework, not only does the central bank have nothing to do with inflation, but, on the contrary, the bank is regarded, against all evidence, as an inflation fighter. Thus, a fall in unemployment or a rise in economic activity is seen as a potential inflationary trigger which therefore must be restrained by central-bank policies. Some other triggers, such as rises in commodity prices or workers wages, are also regarded as potential threats and therefore must always be under the watchful eye of the central bank. The popular definition cannot explain why inflation is bad If inflation is just a general rise in prices, then why is it regarded as bad news? What kind of damage does it do? Mainstream economists maintain that inflation, which they label as general price increases, causes speculative buying, which generates waste. Inflation, it is maintained, also erodes the real incomes of pensioners and low-income earners and causes a misallocation of resources
[e-gold-list] ... a dozen of donuts.
at Banana Gold's BGC. http://www.bananagold.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] shipping silver out?
Now, many current actions make more sense. For instance, WB taking his silver out of the country (prior to the possibility of embargo, and taxation, or confiscation). WB I take to mean Warren Buffet. This is a quote from: GOLD CONFISCATION and THE EMERGENCY BANKING BILL of l933 http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_02/smithf022502.html Has anybody else read anything about WB shipping silver out of the country? Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] shipping silver out?
James M. Ray wrote: Now, many current actions make more sense. For instance, WB taking his silver out of the country (prior to the possibility of embargo, and taxation, or confiscation). WB I take to mean Warren Buffet. ... I'm not so sure, Bob. Mr. Buffett is a pretty old man these days, but he didn't have much money back then, if he was alive at all he'd have to be just a kid (I think) so therefore I think it's another WB. Warner Brothers was probably a film studio then, and film uses silver, but I doubt it's that WB either. Jim, It appears he's talking about recently: Now, many current actions make more sense. ... I think he's talking about today's Berkshire Hathaway's Warren Buffet. Warren bought a bunch of silver a couple/few years ago. I think it was for Berkshire Hathaway. I didn't follow it, though. Shares closed Friday: Class A $73,400 sym:brka Class B $2,445 sym:brkb Don't believe me. Check the symbols out for yourself at: http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=brkasid=o_symb=x=32y=17 He never got into that stock spitting thing. :) Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: shipping silver out?
Bob wrote: He never got into that stock spitting thing. :) Bob I meant to spell splitting. :) Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: German? Gold? Price?
Mark S. Ohberg wrote: No twernt the Swiss bank, but the German's turn, plus India was not buying, Which reminds me. Central banks crying wolf won't stop a bull market. if only they would really sell their gold holdings, the aggregate gold holdings of the world's CBs actually haven't changed in the past 20 years. All that selling but, very little has actually been sold in fact it only moves from one set of CBs Canada, Australia, England. to another China, Taiwan, Russia.. Another example of gold moving from the western hemisphere to the eastern. He who has the gold makes the rules. Twenty years from now, the power structure of the world could be quite different. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Pennant formation?
Ken Griffith wrote: Hey Bob, Is gold doing another pennant formation? Ken It's too early to say, Ken. A week or 2, from now, is needed. Gold ran up 6 days in a row. Then it closed down a little bit from the close of the 6th day. Today, in New York, it stayed right around yesterday's close. I expected it to go down more but it didn't. I don't know what's up. The heads of the G7 central banks are meeting in Canada this Friday and Saturday, I read. Maybe people are expecting them to agree to devalue the USD some. I don't know. Ya Ya, we're the ones lowering the USD. Every things ok. We're in control... oh ya, we know what we're doing. Don't worry. We're taking care of things for ya. This will be for your own good. Trust us. Ya know. They might want to make like the FX doesn't have control of the USD. Anyways, when a bunch of bureaubrats like them get together, they can't be up to any good. JP's the expert on flags and pennants. He's the one to ask for what to be looking for if they develope. And if they do develope, IAITC subscribers will be kept informed of their developement. http://www.itsallinthecharts.com/ Hell, I subscribe to IAITC. It can remind me to see something that I've forgotten to see. Sometimes it's just *one* simple overlooked item that can make a huge difference. Hey, IAITC is good ammo. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Yuan
Any of you money changers accept Yuan for a dgc? 3PPay, GoldMoney or e-gold? I have a valuable employee (Senior Piping Superintendent) in China (who wants to stay in that part of the world) who wants to submit a resume. It'd be a lot easier for him if a money changer accepts Yuan. In my opinion, a lot of wealth is going to be moving from the western hemisphere to the eastern hemishpere over the next decade. One of my proxies sym:chn is up about a third recently: http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=chnsid=0o_symb=chnx=54y=11 The western government top heavy economies, plus Japan, are in deep dodo. Their centers of buoyancy are close to their centers of gravity. Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Where does one keep ones wealth in an end-game scenario?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who can answer the question? If the USD starts to collapse on Monday, where's the best place to hold wealth? I wouldn't want it all in one place or form. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Japan to follow Argentina into default?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fascinating stuff Jim Can anyone guess which country will be #3 -- after Japan? One gram to the winner! :) The US. A Fibonacci Expansion of M3? - Robert Gregory http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_02/gregory011102.html The mythical surplus is gone. Current Republican president sounding just like a Democrat (promising more spending anyways). The biggest debtor nation in the world. Massive unfunded liabilities. Military in 141 countries in the world. A central bank reeling from one side of the road to the other. A banking system with reserves down to about 1%. It's currency forming a long term topping pattern. ... ah heck. I quit. I don't have the 8 hours to finish this paragraph. :) Bob A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship. --Alexander Fraser Tyler -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Someone tries to hack my accounts
In order to make me feel comfortable about 1mdc I would request a thorough explanation of: - who is behind 1mdc Me - JP May! :) John Wayne Zidar is not an investor. - what are the 3rd party controls in place (like audits) It's just like e-gold, there are none! :) quote buster - a complete set of addresses, organisation chart etc. of this 'company' (i doubt it's a legally registered company at all) It certainly and proudly is not, you're right! It is a pirate company in the modern mode. The sole trust is reputation. I would never think to see if some government sanctions any business operation owned by JP May, based on his earned reputation since the early days of e-gold's mailing list. It's the person, not whether some government gives it's ok to that person. JP's the Finest Kind, old Grand Banks saying. Bob A copy of an Hettinga post: Finally, in what has become the most famous exchange in the [House Banking and Currency subcommittee 1912 money trust] hearings' thousands of pages of testimony, the two men returned to the question of controlling money and credit. [Samuel] Untermyer [vocal critic of the money trust, committee counsel] said, The basis of banking is credit, is it not? Morgan: Not always. that is an evidence of banking, but it is not the money itself. Money is gold, and nothing else. There was in 1912 a significant difference between actual metal coin and loans represented by paper (banknotes, bonds, bills). When Morgan repeated yet again that money could not be controlled, Untermyer asked whether credit was not based on money -- that is, did not the big New York banks issue loans to certain men and institutions because it is believed that they have the money back of them? Morgan: No sir. It is because people believe in the man. Untermyer: And he might not be worth anything? Morgan, with less than perfect regard for grammar: He might not have anything. I have known a man to come into my office, and I have given him a check for a million dollars when they had not a cent in the world. Untermyer: That is not business? Morgan: Yes, unfortunately, it is. I do not think it is good business, though. Untermyer did not, apparently, think much of this answer, for he repeated his proposition: Is not commercial credit based primarily on money or property? Morgan: No sir; the first thing is character. Untermyer: Before money or property? Morgan: Before money or property or anything else. Money cannot buy it - -- and he elaborated, after a few more questions -- because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom. - -- From _Morgan:_American_Financier_, by Jean Strouse. Random House, New York, 1999 -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gold.com/stats.html lets you observe the e-gold system's activity now!
[e-gold-list] Re: How Penny Per Page Might Work
James M. Ray wrote: Trivia question for (at least) a gram! What's the name of the VERY FIRST currency that was based wholly on e-gold, Flying Rat and (this is the hint...) where is it used? First correct answer gets a gram of e-gold! It's not used now that I know of. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gold.com/stats.html lets you observe the e-gold system's activity now!
[e-gold-list] Re: The US Fed Dances
SnowDog wrote: Q: How would you go about abolishing the Federal Reserve? Almost all USD in circulation are debts to the Federal Reserve. How would you replace this debt-backed currency with an other type? SnowDog SnowDog wrote: Q: How would you go about abolishing the Federal Reserve? Almost all USD in circulation are debts to the Federal Reserve. How would you replace this debt-backed currency with an other type? Read 'Breaking The Banks: Central Banking Problems and Free Banking Solutions' - by Richard Salsman Introduction I. The Importance of Sound Banking II. Standard Measures of Commercial Bank Stability III. The Theory of The Effects of Central Banking On The Financial Condition of The Commercial Banking System IV. The Historical Record of Central Banking In The United States: Weakening The Commercial Banking Industry V. The Theory of The Effects Of Free Banking On The Commercial Banking Industry VI. The Historical Record Of Free Banking In The United States: Strengthening The Commercial Banking Industry VII. Alternative Views Of Banking Instability: Deregulation, Management Incompetence, And Fraud. VIII.The Basic Purposes of Central Banking IX. Money And Banking Reform: The Transition From Central Banking To Free Banking The Federal Reserve Capital Adequacy Regulations Deposit Insurance Regulation Transition to Free Banking 1. Permit Free Banking 2. Allow Unrestricted Mergers and Acquisitions 3. Phase Out Government Deposit Insurance 4. Permit Private Bank Notes 5. Permit Gold-Based Banking 6. Repeal Legal Tender Laws 7. Discontinue Open-Market Operations 8. Close the Discount Window 9. Privatize the Federal Reserve System The Current Central Banking Structure The Transition to Free Banking Conclusion Bibliography p. 143-171 Buy here: http://www.aier.org/fundpubs.html USD 12.00 Salsman used to be a practising New York banker. He's now in business for himself: http://www.intermarketforecasting.com/ bob -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: The US Fed Dances
James Turk wrote: SnowDog wrote Q: How would you go about abolishing the Federal Reserve? It is exactly this question that is addressed in a wonderful new book just published called Crashmaker. I've written a review on Crashmaker for my newsletter, and I've posted this review to my website, From James Turk's review: This book is truly magnificent. Now there's an excellent word to describe the book: magnificent. Nice going James. Spend US$ 100,000 on a US college education to try and find out how the world really works. You probably won't come close at most colleges. Spend US$ 60 on Cra$hmaker and you've got a huge chunk of it. And it doesn't take 4 years to read. Bob -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: The US Fed Dances
eCurrencyCrawler wrote: http://www.bananagold.com/bob.html The article is a bit off the mark seeing as it is not uncommon for interest rates to be extremely low or negative values in a downward economy... Whacky wouldn't be the exact term I would use... I would much rather use, Smart. What would you do to boost the economy? Just curious... ;] ...! Me? I wouldn't do anything to boost it. It should be left entirely on it's own. It's amazing that most didn't learn a thing from the self imposed implosion (an economic event) of the former USSR. Or Japan's 11 year long mess. Bob -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] THOM CALANDRA on gold
http://www2.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid={72F7EB78-4A85-4152-8695-38927719ECA7}symb=NEMsid=3400
bob
--
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A Directory of Web sites and Internet
presences accepting non-fiat monies.
http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt
650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA
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[e-gold-list] Money Honor
Subject: ip: Money Honor Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:45:24 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- begin forwarded text Status: U Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:54:06 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (by way of [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: ip: Money Honor Money Honor by Joseph Sobran http://www.lewrockwell.com/sobran/sobran191.html James Madison observed that liberty is lost more often through gradual encroachments than through sudden revolutions. This is also known as the boiling-frog principle: if the water heats slowly, they say, the frog doesnâ*t notice the fatal increase and fails to jump out in time. I donâ*t know about frogs, but I keep an eye on people, and Iâ*ve concluded that theyâ*ll put up with anything if they can get used to it by slow degrees until theyâ*re convinced itâ*s the way things have always been. Weâ*ve long since passed the point our ancestors would have recognized as the dividing line between liberty and tyranny. The first income tax imposed in this country, during the Civil War, caused outrage and was eventually declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court. The rate was 3 per cent on all income between $600 and $10,000; those tycoons making more than $10,000 paid 5 per cent. The federal government justified this crushing tax on grounds of a pressing national emergency, but it was hated anyway. Americans saw it as an act of tyranny, a dangerous first step toward the loss of all their freedom. Today, if a president could get tax rates down to the 3-to-5 per cent range, he would be a hero to taxpayers. They would probably honor him as the Great Emancipator. Not that any modern president would harbor any such utopian goal as restoring the tax rates of yore. Liberals attack President Bush as irresponsible for seeking to limit the top tax rate to 33 per cent. One reason Americans have such poor historical memories is that they are systematically cut off from their past by their own money. The government has debased its own currency so badly that comparisons with the past are difficult. Today a $10,000 income makes you a poor man. A century ago it would have meant that you were rich. Even when I was a young man, $10,000 was still a very good annual income. By the time I was making that kind of money, it was just enough to live on, but I still paid tax on it at rates that had been designed to soak the rich. A state without justice, St. Augustine said, is nothing but a band of robbers. In this country there is no longer a pretense of justice about it. The governmentâ*s chief function is extorting money from us and giving it to others. It has the power to do with impunity what private persons would go to prison for doing. It is, literally, organized crime. But the frog still doesnâ*t notice the rising temperature. Our ancestors thought diluting the currency was one of the foulest things a government could do. That was what counterfeiters did: robbery of the general population through bogus increases in the money supply. The U.S. Constitution not only charged the federal government with preserving the value of money, but specifically authorized it to punish counterfeiting. Today that selfsame government effectively counterfeits its own money. And it does so on a scale no private counterfeiter could ever match. But do we protest? No. We take inflation for granted, as a normal and inevitable fact of economic life, with no moral or criminal dimension. Once upon a time, a dollar was a dollar: not a piece of paper, but a fixed amount of precious metal. It was hard to fake. The federal government was authorized to coin it, not print it. Paper money, or bills of credit, was suspect; it had to be strictly tied to metal, for the general safety of society. The governmentâ*s honor was staked to the stable value of its money. A government that, over time, reduced the value of its own money to a small fraction of its original value, as ours has done, would be regarded as criminal, tyrannical, and also incompetent. But weâ*re not complaining. We donâ*t even remember that things were ever any different. We canâ*t even imagine a government behaving honorably. The very concept of honor is equally unfamiliar to politicians and to government experts. But Iâ*d like to close on a positive note. So let me record my grateful acknowledgment that this government has never quartered a single soldier in my home. Whatever can be said about the rest of the Constitution, the Third Amendment is alive and well. Joe Sobran is a nationally syndicated columnist. He also writes Washington Watch for The Wanderer, a weekly Catholic newspaper, and edits SOBRAN'S, a monthly newsletter of his essays and columns. Get a free copy of Joe Sobran's lecture, How Tyranny Came to America by subscribing to SOBRAN'S. See www.sobran.com for details. For a free sample of
[e-gold-list] Re: GBC (ad banners redux)
Craig Spencer wrote: Most derivatives are like that. Consider a futures contract, say for pork bellies. Very very few people who trade in pork belly futures have the capacity to execise the rights that give their contract value and take delivery of a few tons of pork bellies. Many don't even have the financial capacity to do so; I would say the opposite. Most pork belly futures contract owners do have the financial capability to take delivery. Say a single contract is worth USD 100,000. And the owner put down 5% to buy it. Where did the other USD 95,000 come from? The broker loaned it to the owner. Ya think the broker just goes around loaning those amounts to anybody? No. The owner of the contract had to put up collateral for the $95,000 loan. As in house(s), buildings, horse(s), boat, stocks, and so on. Most futures contract owners have the ability to take over the lease in a silo or cold storage warehouse and buy the bellies. Or to buy one or more of each of the 500 stocks that make up the SP 500. Practically speaking, futures derivatives work the opposite of e-gold. Almost all owners have the ability (assuming they were not fraudulent with their broker) to excercise points in their derivative contract. I can't think of a derivative that does not work the opposite of e-gold. just like the case of e-gold. In this case the certain circumstances are having suitable cold storage facilities and an exceptionally large amount of cash. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: GBC (ad banners redux)
James M. Ray wrote: Gosh, I'd say just about any comodity plays like that. We're talking about derivatives in general. Presumably, it's planned that 99% or so of the people who trade in pork bellies never will redeem a contract for them, but as long as about 1% of the players CAN, Jim, it doesn't work like that. The brokers aim for 100% of players that *CAN* take delivery of the underlying security. Try opening an account for buying any type of futures contract. Then you'll see. You're a big advocate of getting people to open an e-gold account so they can get a good grasp of what it's about. Go ahead. Take your own advice. Just *try* to open an account to buy a futures contract. It's just a single phone call. it doesn't matter at all, and all contracts tend to settle *without* most owners ever having to worry about what to do with an unexpected truckload of bacon -- So are you saying that when the bacon futures contract settles, it's life ends, the underlying security (the bacon) went pueff? Disappeared into thin air? Or the contracts went pueff? Disappeared into thin air? But the bacon was still there? bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: GBC (ad banners redux)
Viking Coder wrote: The important thing to keep in mind is that the *only* reason you can get *any* coins is because it is possible to redeem (even if this right is almost never exercised). This is *not* a mere semantic distinction. The point being made is that it doesn't matter if you can't redeem e-gold for 1/10 oz. gold coins. Several dealers will give you any manner of coins, nuggets, dust, etc... in exchange for e-gold because they know e-gold can be redeemed for large gold bars. I agree with Craig and Viking. This is a way around not being able to redeem in amounts of less than about 400 ozs. That means the coin/small bar dealers that accept e-gold, GGs, e-Bullon, etc. are the canaries in the coal mine. bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: GBC (ad banners redux)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob wrote: Uh, definitely WRONG. You can open an account with some brokers for only a couple G's. Presently Belly margin is around $2.5K, and that is ALL you need. No need to show/prove the ability to assume the whole contract. I noticed you said some. I wouldn't want to own shares in those some brokerages. I wonder how long they are going to be in business. So are you saying that when the bacon futures contract settles, it's life ends, the underlying security (the bacon) went pueff? Disappeared into thin air? Or the contracts went pueff? Disappeared into thin air? But the bacon was still there? No. When the contract expires, all hell is to pay. You better be out by then, else Guido the Collector will be there with the truck load of bacon and his hand out for the money. I don't think you understand the questions. But, as mentioned before, you don't have to prove that you can/will pay for the whole contract at the time of purchase/sale. Usually, the broker will make sure that you are out well before First Notice Day. Hans. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: GBC (ad banners redux)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boy, do you have the wrong impression of how futures work!!! (From a professional futures trader), Hans. Bob wrote: quote buster I would say the opposite. Most pork belly futures contract owners do have the financial capability to take delivery. Say a single contract is worth USD 100,000. And the owner put down 5% to buy it. Where did the other USD 95,000 come from? The broker loaned it to the owner. Ya think the broker just goes around loaning those amounts to anybody? No. The owner of the contract had to put up collateral for the $95,000 The broker doesn't loan anybody anything! You are right in a lot of cases. I was wrong about that. Technically a loan isn't made. However, if things go wrong for you, you owe. If you don't have the wealth required, you're in deep dodo. They're going after your assets. Financially healthy futures brokers don't open accounts with just anybody. I guess what they're doing now a days is watching your account like a hawk and not hesitating to take control of it. But if they can't bail you out, you owe. I hope you're in the 5% that make it. Quote buster (is this needed anymore?) bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: GBC (ad banners redux)
Craig Spencer wrote: snip No. I only included the under certain circumstances qualifier so that people would not introduce an irrelevancy by objecting that they couldn't redeem a 1oz coin. But then Bob did it anyway! that makes it not-storage/ownership/non-backyness? They are storing gold. But you do not own any of it. What you own is a contractual obligation promising conditional redemption. [What that has to do with backing I leave to you.] e-gold still is not gold but a derivative. Craig, I respect your thinking as you are careful what you think and type. I did see the under certain circumstances. My point was that virtually no e-gold user (about 99%) can meet the stringent redemption requirements. So I don't see how it can be a derivative. A mutual fund is a derivative for me if I buy a single share or 1,000,000 shares. This derivative works the same for all shareholders. The same goes for a huge bunch of other derivatives out there. Buy one, buy a million of 'em. It makes no difference. They work the same for everyone. e-gold doesn't even come close. Now there may be some under certain circumstances derivatives other than these so called GBCs, but I don't know of any. Do you? bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: GBC
Viking Coder wrote: The day e-gold isn't backed by gold is the day most people will stop using e-gold. (Most because there are people that use OSGold) e-gold isn't and has never been backed by gold. It can't be. It's a payment system. What's so hard to understand about this. So what if people are calling e-gold a GBC. The terminology doesn't decide what reality is. It's the payment system that allows gold itself to circulate electronically. Gold is not backed by gold. Gold can't be backed by gold. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: 'visual spend' feature; opinion sought
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://interestingsoftware.com/temp/features.html Thus, say you are doing a spend, for example: on the CONFIRM page of a spend, it would show a photo of the human the gold is coming from and a big arrow pointing to a photo of the human the spend is going to. All comments are much appreciated! None human photos allowed, right? Anything, right? A graphic to relate to an account? (Incidentally the above shows what the account info page on 1mdc-money is going to look like...and that look is super-simple-streamlined. If anyone wants to comment on that too, great!) It's wonderfully clean. bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] in search of new metals
Subject: in search of new metals Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:53:19 -0400 (AST) From: Ian Grigg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sometime last week (the 2nd of August, 2001, to be precise) marked the expiry of a two-year exclusive that Systemics provided to DigiGold.net Ltd for its issuance of metals-based contracts for gold, silver, platinum, and palladium. Agreeing to that exclusive was something that I have not ever regretted, much to the dismay of the other would-be metals issuers. It allowed DigiGold to make their best effort to succeed without having to look over their shoulders all the time. Douglas Jackson, being the negotiating face of DigiGold, argued strongly for an exclusive on issuances denominated in the four precious metals, from 2nd August 1999 for two years, and this was accepted and signed into the agreement, and also memorialised in other evidence. Sad to say, the agreement with DigiGold.net Ltd didn't work out. The documents filed in the Anguilla High Court show that on or about November 2000, Systemics accepted DigiGold.net's termination of the agreement. The exclusive died as part of the agreement. It was never a question as to whether the exclusive died with the agreement itself, but one can imagine the court arguments on this issue. We decided to not really push the point until we could be sure. As of the 2nd of August, we know that the exclusive is expired as well as terminated. We have the dates set in the contract, and the retained emails to back up the full intention of both the parties on the meaning of those dates, so that any other interpretation by the courts or arbitrator would be obscure, indeed. This means that Systemics is now actively in search of issuers of metals. We are not offering an exclusive this time, as that makes less sense than it did two years ago. However, we are advising the people we are talking to to focus their offerings on a particular segment. There really is no point in just invading other people's patches at this stage in the market, as there are so many uncontested patches to gather without competition. An issuer of metal does not have a particularly hard job of it, compared to some other issuances. The contracts have been written, for the most part, by various parties, already; and we are starting to establish a contractual track record with the subsequent revisions by legal experts over the last twelve months. For repositories, there are now several easy choices. It is not necessary to store physical metal, as there are several systems that promise to do it for you; the last twelve months have seen the arisal of half a dozen new gold backed currencies, so much so that they have a new acronym: GBC. The main consideration that arises is to pick a GBC as a repository that gives you the governance equation and a marketing message that are aligned with your business. There is little point in picking a gaming GBC for a savings and investment concept; likewise, there may not be any point in paying percentage points for a top of the line governance system if you are only going to be offering gambling to your punters. Another thing that is very important to the business is having a customer base. The mousetrap strategy -- build it and they will come -- is not going to work any more. It will be too slow, because exponential growth is extraordinarily pathetic in the first few years, when measured in absolute terms. You probably need to have access, somehow, to a significant user base. In other words, you had better have a marketing strategy along with the skills, resources, and good luck to carry it out. One benefit of our current nascent metals world, the so- called gold economy, is the presence of market makers or exchange providers. The loading problem that bedevilled the payment systems experiments of the second half of the 1990s is a thing of the past now. Start to get to know those exchange providers, they are a critical part of the network. The major questions all derive from the marketing equation that one would set. What will users use this new currency for? There should be an application in mind, it is well established that you need to direct your marketing efforts to the activities of the users and not play the money-is-its-own-application card. Systemics provides the payment system, we call it Ricardo. But we don't necessarily provide the application. The most obvious application is retail, as we call it, and for that, we direct people to Intertrader, who have this handy-dandy CashBox product that helps to do the middleware. That product is demonstrable right now with SOX/Ricardo payments, and is now looking for some retail attention. We are hoping to be able to use it for our major exchange providers in the future. Ricardo excels at those applications that require serious non-revocability of the
[e-gold-list] Charts ....
... for studying. The latest at BGC. http://www.bananagold.com/bob.html -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] cliff
A cliff hanger: http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] cliff II
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/81 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: The CRISIS!!!
Ken Griffith wrote: Our two largest former opponents, now competitors, Russia and China, When was China our opponent? Mostly they have a very long history of minding their own business. I know the mass media is trying to make China the next big thing to worry about, since we no longer have an immediate enemy. Ya got to keep the masses worried about something! Russia and most of the rest of the former USSR states/countries couldn't compete their way out of a wet paper bag. bob The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobglobins, all of them imaginary. -- H.L. Mencken --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: If Russia creates a gold-based economy.....
Dale Pond wrote: Russians Anticipate Dollar and Bush Crash by Rachel Douglas Russia is getting ready for the dollar to crash. Preparedness measures have moved from the realm of published warnings, to concrete actions, such as the Central Bank's decision to put the gold chervonets coin into circulation. I just had a CRA$HMAKER flashback. http://www.tradervic.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse- click sniffing trojan viruses? You can find out more about computer security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] Re: The Chevronetz
Julian Morrison wrote:
GoldSpender wrote:
Not all yet know about the crisis coming
in the US,
What crisis?
With both parties in the US saying there's a surplus when
there is none because unfunded liabilities are growing at
over a trillion USD a year, there's bound to be some type
of rockn n rolln (crisis?) at some point, because most, it
appears to me, in the US believe their politicians.
There's going to be some real nice percentage gains to be
made. Not that I know when. But who cares when.
It's all in the charts - JP May
What? Me worry? - Alfred E. Newman ('Mad' magazine)
Now GoldMoney has ads on it's *home* page, too!
http://www.goldmoney.com/
Oh, no! Mr. Bill!. What if e-gold caves in to stay competitive?
What will the spend page purists do?
Bob
---
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Did you know that the new e-gold Secure Random Keypad can
help you to protect your passphrase from both keystroke mouse-
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security at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/home_networks.html
[e-gold-list] You dirty rat - James Cagney
All right. Who knocked me out of the game? Come on. Spill it. :) If this wasn't a margin call, and you don't want to be short anymore, I'll go short if you want to go long. historic? Ya can bet ya butt it is! Show me another round the clock world wide gold market. Even after we have to start paying the vig, it'll still be a mind blower. It's almost certain that you know what price your order will be filled at. Try and find that today anywhere in the world. This is a gold mind, and not just for Bamdex. What's needed here is *liquidity*. One of the reasons Bamdex doesn't have liquidity is that there is no way to *communicate* efficiently that it exists, to those in a position to play. Still, not even a peep out of the indecisive Melbourne office, one way or the other, about spend confirmation page ads. Go head Melbourne. Keep it up. Pretty soon you'll be known as The Gang (GBC) that couldn't shoot straight. The McHales Navy of the GBC industry. The F Troop of the GBC industry. The Stupid Pet Tricks (thank you David Letterman) specialists of the GBC industry. Traders *will* go where the most liquidity is. That's a promise. Bamdex should go with the GBC that can provide the means to develope the most liquidity. And once that's established with a GBC, I can't see a reason for Bamdex to try another GBC. Not with easy switching between GBCs already here. There's Cambist.net, and some others. Who are you others? Claude? Eric? Bamdex should turn into something really really *big*. Ya hear that Melbourne? Hello ... hello ... .. well, there were a few signs of life from Jim and Jay recently. But signs of life in the long run don't cut it. If ya have the auto pilot on, I hope you guys at least have a look out on deck. Bob The matchbot has spoken: Subject: Your contract has been closed Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 06:44:30 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bamdex member number: 3014 Contract: # 9900111 contract: IFGETD USD against e-gold up or down: 'ups' Has now been closed out. (Either you closed it, or, the matching side closed it, or it was automatically closed because either your side or the other side exhausted margin.) Was created at: 2001-07-09 20:41:47 at $ 266.70 USD per ounce (116.62 grams per thousand dollars) And is now out at: at $ 269.20 USD per ounce (115.54 grams per thousand dollars) Profit/Loss: 1.08 grams has been added to your account (Profit/loss is calculated by difference in g.p.t. values.) Your account details will now include one new historic contract entry and one new journal entry. The margin required for this contract is released. Review your account details at Bamdex site: http://www.bamdex.com End. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] It (no, a new it) never ends
JP May innovation that is. The winking dollar monkey: http://www.bananagold.com/bob.html --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Only thirty years ago ... the dollar was a joke; ...
Subject: ip: The Fallible Fed Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:12:14 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- begin forwarded text Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 14:40:44 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (by way of Jan [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: ip: The Fallible Fed The Fallible Fed by William Anderson http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=725FS=The+Fallible+Fed Austrian economists, I believe, understand the Federal Reserve System like no other people because they despise it so much.  In fact, Austrians condemn central banking in general because they recognize that these institutions are set up primarily to fund profligate spending by politicians and to rescue banks from their own bankruptcy. Outside the Austrian School, however, central banks often seem to wear a halo.  Historians praise them, most mainstream economists support them, and politicians quickly discover that they cannot exist without them.  This does not mean that these folks actually understand central banking.  In fact, most economists, having been schooled in either Keynesianism or monetarism or both, have a general idea of what the Fed does, but they are so woefully ignorant in financial matters that their knowledge proves to be less than worthless. People trained in finance, unfortunately, are generally agnostic when it comes to knowing much about economics per se.  Thus, the modern world of economics and finance gives us the worst possible combination: economists who donâ*t understand financial instruments and financial experts who donâ*t comprehend economics.  Out of this witchâ*s brew come modern fiscal and monetary policies that emanate from Washington and nearly every other capital of the world. Martin Mayer, who has distinguished himself in earlier worksâ*and who was one of the few financial journalists who actually understood the roots of the 1975 New York City financial crisisâ*has attempted to shed some light on the Fedâ*and generally succeedsâ*in http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/068484740X/ludwigvonmisesinstThe Fed: The Inside Story of How the World's Most Powerful Financial Institution Drives the Markets (The Free Press, 2001). I agree with Gene Epstein of Barronâ*s, who believes that a reader will learn more from Murray Rothbardâ*s http://www.mises.org/mysteryofbanking/mysteryofbanking.pdfThe Mystery of Banking.  Rothbard was well-known for his everlasting hatred of the Fed (which, I may add, was well-deserved).  Mayer, on the other hand, while not worshipful of our august central bank, cannot quite bring himself to condemn this monstrosity, either.  Unlike so many others, who have written about the Fed in hushed, reverent tones, Mayer does admit that, for all of the hype that politicians and the press give the Federal Reserve System, a lot of them donâ*t know what theyâ*re doing.  If he were absolutely honest, he could include Alan Greenspan himself in that group of the blind who are leading the blind. For someone not trained in finance (like me), The Fed is quite helpful if one wishes to understand just what is going on in the markets and in banking today.  For all of the mysteries and complicated formulas surrounding modern finance, it is really quite simple: Securities must be backed by assets.  Once upon a time, the bedrock asset in the financial system was gold.  Today, it is debt, and, most ominously, it is government debt.  As I explained twenty years ago to an incredulous group of middle-school students who still believed that we were on a gold standard, the backing of money in this country is based upon the ability of the government to go into hock. Furthermore, the Fed was created to back up the system of fractional reserve banking, which Rothbard and other Austrians have correctly defined as being legal fraud.  State authorities prosecute and punish polygamy, but they tremble before the majesty of the bank, which simply commits a form of polygamy with the money of its depositors. If one is a Fed-watcher (which I admit to be from what I wish were a safe distance), then The Fed is important reading.  Mayer seems to mostly understand modern money and bankingâ*even though his analysis is hardly Austrian.  He also allows the reader to see just how the Fed, like an octopus, has been able to slowly but surely extend its arms over the entire financial system, much of the permission to expand given it by Congress in the aftermath of crises generally spawned by the Fed itself.  In addition to Mayerâ*s explanation of the Fed and its actions, his chapter on central banks is important reading for those who donâ*t understand why governments more than three centuries ago began to originate them. When the Fed was formed in 1914 (after being created by Congress the year before), its primary purpose was to serve as a bankerâ*s bank, an
[e-gold-list] OECD and FATF
Subject: ip: Claude Frederic Bastiat Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:15:00 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- begin forwarded text Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 14:41:03 -0500 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (by way of Jan [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: ip: Claude Frederic Bastiat Happy Birthday, Bastiat! By J. Bradley Jansen http://www.aim.org/ On June 29th, as we celebrated Claude Frederic Bastiat's 200th birthday, we were also celebrating economic common sense. Perhaps more than any other economic commentator, Frederic Bastiat was able to reduce economic sophisms to their basic principles and follow them to their logical conclusions. This approach was very effective in educating people of the ill-effects of various proposals. We need more Bastiats today. Born at Bayonne, France, Bastiat was orphaned at age nine and raised by his grandfather and his aunt. He studied languages, literature and music, and lived through a revolutionary time. He was 14 when Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo and then exiled. At 17, Bastiat began to work for his uncle then, at age 19, Bastiat also continued his studies by turning his interests to political economy with the writings of Adam Smith and Jean-Baptiste Say. Bastiat survived the Revolution of 1830 and became involved in local politics the following year. Bastiat rose to prominence in 1844 with the publication of an article on tariffs and trade. Although he died just six years later, Bastiat became a vocal and eloquent critic of protectionism. One of his most famous works was his petition of the candle makers and others to the members of the Chamber of Deputies ( http://www.dallasfed.org/htm/pubs/ei/ei3_1.html). In that fictional petition, the makers of candles and related industries were lobbying the legislature for trade protection from an unfair foreign competitor who was hurting their business, costing French jobs. The petition read in part, We are suffering from the ruinous competition of a foreign rival who apparently works under conditions so far superior to our own for the production of light that he is flooding the domestic market with it at an incredibly low price: for the moment that he appears, our sales cease, all the consumers turn to him, and a branch of French industry whose ramifications are innumerable is all at once reduced to complete stagnation. That foreign rival wreaking havoc on the domestic market was none other than the sun. The petitioners were asking for a law requiring the closing of all shutters, skylights and other openings permitting the light of the unfair foreign competition. As Bastiat explained, The sort of dependence that results from exchange, i.e., from commercial transactions, is a reciprocal dependence. We cannot be dependent upon a foreigner without his being dependent on us. Now, this is what constitutes the very essence of society. To sever natural interrelations is not to make oneself independent, but to isolate oneself completely. His insight into the benefits of free trade still offers us a valuable lesson. Another important essay of his was the essay, What is Seen and What is Not Seen which explained that consumers and citizens should not be duped into only looking at the ostensible benefits of government action and should consider the hidden costs as well. In his The Broken Window essay, he exposes the fallacy that forced redistribution has a net benefit effect for society as a whole. In fact some gain at others' expense, but the net effect is often negative for everyone. Bastiat gave us a wealth of insightful quotations also (some are available at http://www.bomis.com/rings/bastiat/2http://www.bomis.com/rings/bastiat/2). One of my favorites reads, The state is the great fiction by which everybody tries to live at the expense of everybody else. Another favorite is Plunder, which plays such an important role in the affairs of the world, has but two instruments: force and fraud, and two impediments: courage and knowledge. It is a call to arms that we should not cower from pointing out the fallacies in economic debates. Unfortunately, one place where his economic insights did not last seems to be Paris. There, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development and the Financial Action Task Force are in the process of making a mockery of the Rule of Law. Their bureaucrats are not directly accountable to people of the countries they claim to represent, but they claim to represent themselves as policy-making bodies. Even worse, the OECD and FATF bureaucrats are not only trying to make policies for their own member countries. They are also trying to dictate the policies for countries that are not members of the OECD or FATF and have no say in determining the rules of the game. Both the approach and policies of the OECD and FATF regarding tax competition, financial privacy and
[e-gold-list] Re: Banner ads on GoldMoney
James M. Ray wrote: At 04:25 PM -0400 07/11/2001, Bob wrote: Viking Coder wrote: You are certainly right... And IMO, e-gold will do same as GoldMoney. And IMO, they shouldn't. It is the wrong path to follow. Viking Coder Ya, we know what you think they *should* do, but what do you think they *will* do? Maybe someone (Constructiongigs?) will set up a poll. There's probably no way to stop multiple-voting by either side, but it might be interesting to see, especially if the voters could leave short comments. Jim, That's an excellent idea! So. why hasn't GSR already jumped to it? It appears to me that they have the money, time (non-renewable resource) and energy (non- renewable resource) to burn. How I see e-gold now: a leader no more pressuring/forcing it's business customers to use it's competitor's monies. holding back it's business customers twiddling it's thumbs while it's competitors close in It's one thing to catch the ball. It's another thing to take it, run with it, and really go somewhere. Getting stuck in a rut ain't too cool. The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth. Now: http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/81 Ads above and below the chart, plus a pop up window. http://stocks.tradingcharts.com/stocks/charts/nem/d Banner ad plus a pop up http://www.bigcharts.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=nemsid=0o_symb=nemx=32y=13 Banner, big side bar, 4 buttons Traders, speculators and investors have a lot more to think about than what it takes to make a lousy e-gold spend. Where's all the p*ssing, moaning and howling coming from traders, speculators and investors. I've never heard of any. Bob (one ticked off shareholder) -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Banner ads on GoldMoney
James M. Ray wrote: At 06:03 AM -0400 07/12/2001, Bob wrote: (funny, I don't recall copying the e-gold list on that private email!)... Jim, That's an excellent idea! Jim, You are right. It wasn't sent to the list. I didn't notice. I apologize. Would you please PGP your private mails to me? Then I won't make this mistake. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] The end of liberty
Subject: R. A. Hettinga wrote: --- begin forwarded text From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:00:10 EDT Subject: The end of liberty To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Friends: Some of you may have thought some of our fears about the what the statists have planned to end our freedoms were exaggerated. The following is from a UN report last week - unfortunately it shows that the paranoid were right. The U.N. High Level Panel on Financing for Development Recommends Making Orwell's Big Brother Real On June 25, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan provided the report of the High Level Panel on Financing for Development to the General Assembly. He appointed the panel in December of 2000. Annan considers the report a sold piece of work and commends the panel for the energy, imagination and effort that they brought to their task. The recommendations of this report will be considered at Conference on Financing for Development which will take place in Monterrey, Mexico between March 18 and March 22, 2002. The report recommends the creation of an International Tax Organization (ITO) (pages 27-28, 64-66). The ITO would sponsor a mechanism for multilateral sharing of tax information, like that already in place with OECD, so as to curb the scope for evasion of taxes on investment income earned abroad. (page 28). The OECD harmful tax competition would require targeted small low tax countries to routinely provide all financial information on citizens and investors in those countries to the 30 industrialized OECD countries. The OECD initiative imposes absolutely no requirements whatsoever on the country receiving the information to take any steps to protect financial privacy and no requirement that any OECD country show any probable cause that wrongdoing has been committed before being provided the information. Countries that do not comply with this total abrogation of financial privacy would be subject to extraordinarily brutal sanctions. The OECD would not require its own members to comply with these rules. Large countries, like the United States, that provide tax advantages to foreign investors and honor financial privacy of its citizens and investors (at least to some degree) would be exempt from the OECD rules but would not be exempt from the United Nations ITO rules. The proposed U.N. ITO would result in every U.N. member government having routine unqualified access to the financial information of the citizens of all U.N. member states. It would undoubtedly result in governments receiving this information using it not only for tax purposes but for intelligence purposes and to oppress minorities and political opposition. The report states: The taxes that one country can impose are often constrained by the tax rates of others: this is true of sales taxes on easily transportable goods, of income taxes on mobile factors (in practice, capital and highly qualified personnel) and corporate taxes on activities where the company has a choice of location. Countries are increasingly competing not by tariff policy or devaluing their currencies but by offering low tax rates and other tax incentives, in a process sometimes called 'tax degradation'. (page 65) It [the ITO] might engage in negotiations with tax havens to persuade them to desist from harmful tax competition. It could take a lead role in restraining the tax competition designed to attract multinationals - competition that, as noted earlier, often results in the lion's share of the benefits of foreign direct investment accruing to the foreign investor. (page 65) Tax competition is a highly desirable limit on the degree to which governments can tax and a check on the inefficiency and corruption of government. Countries that wish to attract investment from abroad by providing low taxes have every right to do so and neither the U.N. nor the OECD should dictate tax levels to sovereign states. Another task that might fall to an ITO would be the development, negotiation and operation of international arrangement for the taxation of emigrants. At present most emigrants pay taxes only to their host country, an arrangement that exposes source countries to the risk of economic loss when many of their most able citizens emigrate. (page 66) The idea that a government should be able to impose taxes on those that have emigrated from its jurisdiction is repugnant and a violation of fundamental human rights. It rests of the premise that the state retains a right to the fruits of its national's labor and investment income even after they have emigrated. It should be viewed as a violation of Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted by the U.N. General Assembly in 1948 which states in relevant part that [e]veryone has the right to leave any country. The report recommends that a currency transactions tax or carbon (CO2) tax be imposed
[e-gold-list] The Federal Reserve Is All About Stupidity
Subject: ip: The Federal Reserve Is All About Stupidity Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:00:08 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- begin forwarded text From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:46:32 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ip: The Federal Reserve Is All About Stupidity The Federal Reserve Is All About Stupidity By Charley Reese [EMAIL PROTECTED] © 2001 The Orlando Sentinel 7-9-1 In the late 1960s, you could buy four or five heavy bags of groceries at a supermarket for about $17. Today, you can carry $17 worth groceries in a plastic sack hooked around your little finger. Ever wondered why the change? It's simple. Our currency has been devalued. When a nation's currency is devalued, businesses and professions can raise prices and fees to compensate for the loss of value. It's the working men and women who get the shaft. America's money and credit system is deliberately confusing. The people who designed it were logically afraid that if people understood it, they would never put up with it. Let's start with the money in your pocket. You will notice that it is a Federal Reserve Note. It is redeemable in nothing. It is backed up by nothing. Its exchange value, or purchasing power, is determined by the volume in circulation in comparison with the goods and services available at any given time. What makes the scam possible are those 11 little words tucked away in small type. This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private. Without a legal-tender law, people could defend themselves against devaluation by simply switching to gold or silver or even to a more-stable foreign currency, such as the Swiss franc. In the early days of the Republic, there were many different kinds of money in use. The next step in figuring all this out is to realize that the Federal Reserve System is a privately owned central bank. It was made confusing deliberately. There are 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, each one private and owned by the commercial banks. As in George Orwell's Animal Farm, all the Federal Reserve Banks are equal, but the New York Federal Reserve Bank is more equal than the others are. It handles the government bonds, and its president has a permanent seat on the Federal Reserve Board. This board, whose members are appointed by the president, is a quasi-governmental organization. More quasi than governmental, I assure you. So here is how your money is devalued. When Congress wants to spend $50 billion more than it collects in taxes, it goes to the Federal Reserve. The government gives the Federal Reserve $50 billion in government bonds, and the Federal Reserve adds $50 billion to the government's checking account. Seems reasonable. But there is a catch. Where does the Federal Reserve get the $50 billion to put into the government's checking account? It creates it out of nothing, with a keystroke. The bonds and the interest due on them are paid for with taxes, which is to say the sweat and labor of the American people. In the meantime, to stay with our example, $50 billion in new money has been put into the system. In addition to that, the Federal Reserve can manipulate the economy. To put more money into the system, always in the form of debt at interest, it lowers interest rates; to take money out of the system, it raises interest rates. But always the Federal Reserve acts in the interests of banks -- not in the interests of the people or the country. Ignorant reporters have recently elevated the current Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan, to folk-hero status. Nothing is more absurd. Still, as another American hero said, Stupid is as stupid does. --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Banner ads on GoldMoney
Viking Coder wrote: You are certainly right... And IMO, e-gold will do same as GoldMoney. And IMO, they shouldn't. It is the wrong path to follow. Viking Coder Ya, we know what you think they *should* do, but what do you think they *will* do? Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Bamdex
JP, That's an incredibly good personal account page one gets after logging in. Have you had to send out margin calls yet? If so, how do you do it? Bob -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: cheap, but quality webhosting / e-gold accepting
Chris Lord-Van Voorst wrote: Does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks! Bearerinstruments.com: http://www.bearerinstruments.com/search.php3?Cat1=InternetCat2=Web+SitesCat3=HostingCat4= -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Separation of Control -- A Principle of Financial Cryptography
Subject: Separation of Control -- A Principle of Financial Cryptography Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:37:47 -0400 (AST) From: Ian Grigg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Separation of Control -- A Principle of Financial Cryptography As a Financial Cryptographer, I've been thinking a lot lately about the Governance aspects of systems that deal with electronic value. Financial Cryptographers do this. Especially during our occasional conferences where new systems present challenges, sometimes new and sometimes familiar [1]. Imagine a system storing some physical commodity like greenbacks or bricks or somesuch. Then issuing the commodity in digital form. With Ricardian Contracts, or some other technology. Our recent EFCE conference in Edinburgh presented a bunch of these to a skeptical and critical audience [2]. I've written extensively on how to protect the assets of such from internal fraud and so forth [3]. I use a fairly simple management accounting or agency concept that I call my 5 parties model. It's all written up extensively on my site and occasionally appears in published papers [4] and some internal papers [5]. I consult in this area, as do others. One of the things that we do is to advise the issuers of value -- by whatever means they issue -- to separate out their risky components from their non-risk components. For example, the Issuer of value should be separate from any entity that buys and sells value for a spread, and takes a risk on same. This point takes some time to appreciate, although it is well-bedded in accounting and finance principles. An entity that buys and sells takes on a risk in the position, as well as dealing directly with lots of parties who also take on risk. In contrast the core payment system takes on no risk if it is 100% reserved with strong back-to-back contracts. It only deals with users of payments in a highly contained context. The exchange operator -- let's call her Matilda -- should indeed take on risk, as in this way she earns profits, normally by setting a spread. The payment system -- we call him Ivan -- should not take on the risk, as he holds the value in trust, or escrow, or similar, on behalf of users. The payment system is thus a juicy target. Fat, smiling, and somewhat detached from the users, a bit like those western images of a buddha. Meanwhile, the exchange operator is elusive, quick, nimble, aggressive, and as skinny as a wraith, like the ladies in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. It's an analogy, no more, there are some quite nice exchange makers out there, and they are not that skinny and no doubt some unsmiling payment systems as well. Unfortunately for all, our wraith-like Matilda generates the greater degree of suits, as she is in fact taking on the riskier business. It sort of goes with the territory, all those martial arts movies show her getting into bust-up after bust-up. But, she has few assets on hand. So she takes her profits, just today's profits, and moves on when her luck runs out. What happier situation for the attacker to find an exchange operator sitting hand-in-hand with one of those juicy 100% reserved payment systems. From the point of view of the non-aggressive user (let's call him Bob), he should bear in mind that what is happy for the aggressively-minded Alice is unhappy for him. A payment system with a nice pot of reserves and one of those risky exchange operation all mixed into one is likely to attract the worst sorts of attention, and thus endanger those reserves. Don't know when, don't know how. Trouble has a habit of creeping up on these situations. I therefore often advise concerned parties to separate out the payment system from the exchange operator [6]. Further, we anticipate that wise users will look for: * different owners. let the exchange operation go free, let it profit, so that the Ivan the payment system can live happily, smiling, safe forever. * make the payment system as risk-free, and as low profit as possible. * look for separation of control. Be religious about this point, a secret marriage is not a good one. * look for true competitive access to the core float feature (adding more value to the total system). There are logical reasons for restricting access to the core float feature, such as competitive control and admin costs. Only one of those works to Bob's benefit. * look for strong legal and jurisdictional institutional aspects. I.e., the contracts are strong, the courts are behind it, the lawyers are honest, fair and quick, the integrity is evident. * look for fair treatment of users by the all-powerful
[e-gold-list] E. van der Koogh on EFCE
Subject: [Webfunds-users] Presentation for EFCE Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:14:39 +0100 From: E. van der Koogh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have copied both devel and user list because I think it might be interesting to non-developers as well. Sorry for the late posting, my RSI is keeping me from typing a lot :( During EFCE I presented a XML Schema to format Ricardian Contracts. The main purpose was not to push this development, but to get people thinking about what a Ricardian Contract is and what it should look like. When I was working on Webfunds ( a long time ago in a galaxy far far away) we always assumed that XML was the way to go for Ricardian Contracts. After having worked on them I am not so sure anymore. My presentation can be found online at http://www.koogh.com/efce/efce.sdd A healthy discussion started between technical people and lawyers on different requirements of a Ricardian Contracts and how to satify them. I hope to be able to incorperate those ideas into a better proposal for a Ricardian Contract, which would be closer to solve the problem of the requirements. For more information on Ricardian Contracts see http://webfunds.org/guide/ricardian.html The whole conference was a great experience with some great presentations and of course the main event. The serving of 2 subpoenas in the Signet Library.. This is one of the surest signs that Financial Cryptography is getting somewhere. It's potential already warrents a couple of courtcases. It's just too bad that it has to be a battle between some of the pioneers of this area. E-gold against Systemics and E-gold against Charles Evans. I hope that E-gold realizes it's mistake and drops the cases and work together with all of us to get the things done we all set out to do. It's rediculous to think they can win the court case against Charles, which is about him revealing trade secrets. How hard is you give me money I give you gold. If you give me gold I'll give you money?. Even if that's a trade secret they should do a little better to guard them too, they asked me to help them debug some code when I was on a visit there, without having signed NDAs. And I won't mention the silver bar that was used to keep the door open ;) Enough rambling about court cases. EFCE was great fun and very enjoyable and you should definately come next time. I hope I can have my XML Schema for the contracts by then so we can really get some acceptance out there :) Oh yes, the presentation is in StarOffice format, I sure hope MSOffice can read it :P Erwin ___ WebFunds-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.webfunds.org/mailman/listinfo/webfunds-users --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: egold for cash
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric, is the REVERSE possible, can you somehow have people pick up cash at banks when they sell e-gold? Isn't that usually called a bank wire? :) heh - swift wires aren't worth the paper they're not printed on anymore, eh? But for small amounts -- I think there is an incredible opportunity out there for some market maker to pick up the fone and strike a deal with, say, Mailboxes Etc. Mailboxes Etc (or some similar outfit with retail stores everywhere) could be a buyer/seller for small amounts (say 100 to 500 bucks, no more or less) of e-gold. You could walk into a M.E. and get $200 in cash in exchange for e-gold. The Market Maker could carry all the underlying trades and M.E. would just get a coupke percent simply added or subtracted at point of sale on each deal. I've driven by more than one jewelry place with We deal in gold on their store front signs. They're traders. They are candidates for providing walk-ins with fiat for GBCs. Eventually walk-ins should be walking in with their Web enabled hand helds. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: The Bananagold Stats Contest.
SnowDog wrote: When will it be useful for large retailers to accept e-gold? uuuhhh... when ADS are allowed on the E-Gold Spend Page??? Riiight! Where's the problem on the spend confirmation page? William Penn said--if you protect men from folly, you'll get a nation of fools. Ya can't protect everybody from themselves. Some will screw up no matter how simple. Like in the voting booths in the US. e-gold is just holding itself back. Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: The issue that is holding e-gold commerce back. Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:38:09 -0500 From: Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: ConstructionGigs.com To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm talking about THE ABILITY OF EGOLD-USING COMMERCIAL ENTERPIRES, TO ADVERTISE TO THE EGOLD COMMUNITY. We have no way other than hit or miss. You're absolutely right, JP. One of the most important reasons for advertising is simply to let people know that you exist, or what you sell, or what a current special is. It's a means of communicating. That payment page is the choke point. The funnel. http://www.bananagold.com/howitshouldbe.gif Man, would that be valuable to have a banner there for a while, every now and then. 68,459 funded accounts divided by 9111 spends/day equals about 8 days to be exposed to some large percentage of the spenders. You're right JP. Advertising is commercial grease, oil, silicon spray to commerce. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Need to do something about the value of the dollar
Samuel Mc Kee wrote: So there's this gigantic and ever-growing pile of U.S. dollars (in the multitrillions, if we are to believe the protectionists) The reason why the dollar has continued to rise in the face of large deficits is because there is a scarcity of dollars in the world economy. And then you have Bruce saying the opposite. Hey, got to keep the populace confused and alarmed. So that they're clammering for protection. -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Ads on the e-gold site
Viking Coder wrote: Everybody probably already knows my stand on this issue. I'll try to do an objective analysis though. e-gold averages between 5-10,000 spends in any 24 hours period. In the past few months, there has been as few as 2500 and as many as 28,000. A few relevant questions are: How many of these spends take place through the SCI? How many of these spends take place throught the programmer's interface? How many of these spends are made in rapid-fire mode by MMs who are doing the day's round of e-gold exchanges? I don't know. Who cares? What difference does it make. A guy takes out an ad for a price and measures the results. Maybe the results are worth more money the next time. Maybe less. Wouldn't it be bad etiquette to advertise for one company while providing a payment service to another company? I don't understand that question. Anybody using the programmer's interface, or Khurram's new rapid spender, wouldn't ever see the posted ads. Those people would be such a small percentage of e-gold users, it wouldn't make a difference. Anybody who is in 'business-mode' when doing spends probably does not want to be distracted by advertising. You can't please all of the people all of the time. And, if they are really in 'business-mode', the ads shouldn't be a distraction. The standard response is that people can turn off the ads if they want to. How many people will leave the ads turned on? It should actually work the other way around. If e-gold does decide to implement ads, they should be opt-in not opt-out. After all, how many people are happy about opt-out mailing/spam lists? Then we have the slippery slope phenomena. Once the ads are on the spend page, why not put them on them on all the account pages, or all over the site? JP said that advertising is done strictly for revenue, right? The amount of revenue that e-gold could earn from ads would be inconsequential when compared with the revenue they earn from transaction fees. Your forgetting revenue earned from transaction fees can be increased because of increased e-gold accepting business's revenue due to advertising. It seems to me you're consentrating on a small part of the big picture. Things affect other things. Growth rates affect other growth rates. If e-gold accepting business's growth rates are suffering because they are having a problem communicating with an important market, so won't e-gold's growth rates suffer. What's so hard to understand about this? Do you actually think that all GBC companies are going to refuse for ever a growing demand for ad space. What's going to happen after the first GBC starts accepting ads? e-gold's # of users with funded accounts is currently at ~100,000 (96,185 funded gold accounts). This is impressively high compared with what it was last year. Ya, but the new account growth rate has leveled/fallen. Besides, what's your point? That e-gold growth rates that are lower than they can be is a *good* thing? However, this is comprised of people from all over the world with dramatically divergent wants and needs. Currently, small 'cottage-farm' companies populate the landscape because a niche company will only interest a fraction of the relatively small e-gold userbase; even with ads on the spend page. Ah come on man, most of the biggies started out as small niche companies. Sheesh. Anybody who starts up a new venture, online or not, will have to do some form of advertising. This includes their store-front presence; What good is a store front presense if almost nobody knows the store exists (assuming it's a Web site)? either a website and/or a physical location. If a large company decides to accept e-gold, a multi-billion dollar ad campaign won't be required to alert their normal users to such an action. They can use their opt-in mailing lists, make announcements on their website, and utilize the same, very useful, tool that e-gold does - word of mouth. Good personal recommendation are worth tremendously more than any advertising. It could be that an existing large company's incentive to accept e-gold is to bring in *new* business. Somebody recently raised money to start another business, from going to an existing customer base. Get it? I didn't really succeed in doing an objective analysis, but I think I have asked a few questions that weren't asked yet. The Theory of probabilities is at bottom nothing but commmon sense reduced to Calculus. - Pierre Simon de Laplace --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Ads on the e-gold site
Viking Coder wrote: Wouldn't it be bad etiquette to advertise for one company while providing a payment service to another company? I don't understand that question. How would the general merchant feel if his customers are being showed advertising while completing the spend process for his/her site? I don't know how he would *feel*. I think that he would think that it doesn't matter to him. No, I'm concentrating on the fact that I don't like being forced to view ads when I'm paying for a service. Finally it comes out. You just *personally* don't *like* 'em. Why didn't you just say that? If you don't like 'em, don't look at 'em. You shouldn't have a problem if you're in business mode. Ya see? There's another problem in the world. To much *feeling* going on. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Ads on the e-gold site
Samuel Mc Kee wrote: How would the general merchant feel if his customers are being showed advertising while completing the spend process for his/her site? In particular, how would he feel about his shopping cart containing an ad for a direct competitor? Coke could advertise on Pepsi's shopping cart. But what are the odds of this happening? I should think miniscule. If the NRA starts accepting e-gold, should I see an ad for Handgun Control, Inc. on the page where I'm making a donation? How's that going to make a difference? You going to turn around and make a contribution to a gun control .org? Maybe you'll get ticked off and make a second contribution to the NRA. :) Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: free advertising and conflicts
Samuel Mc Kee wrote: In particular, how would he feel about his shopping cart containing an ad for a direct competitor? Coke could advertise on Pepsi's shopping cart. This precisely and exactly happens right now. (1) in a supermarket, the rolling-baskets have ads on them for Pepsi -- even though Coke may be sitting in the basket of a customer! That's not the same thing at all. The rolling-basket is not Coke's domain. A better analogy would be if Coke were actually required to print ads for Pepsi on the Coke can itself. The spend confirmation page, because of the way the SCI works, becomes an integral part of the merchant's shopping cart, so putting ads on it is effectively the same as putting ads on the merchant's web site. I don't know about that. I remember way back on this list, a guy or two complaining that they couldn't customize the e-gold spend page because it ruined the esthetics/continuity of their sites. That it was too obvious that their site visitor had come upon or gone to another site to make the spend. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Bastiat
Subject: In Praise of Bastiat Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 06:41:30 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/retrieve.cgi?id=SB994299301115112922.djm July 5, 2001 Commentary In Praise of an Economic Revolutionary By Bob McTeer, president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else. -- Frederic Bastiat (1801-1850) Claude Frederic Bastiat was born in Bayonne, in the southwest of France, 200 years ago last Friday. This week, I kicked off a conference in nearby Dax, France, celebrating Bastiat's contributions to individual liberty and free markets. The whole world should be celebrating the birthday of this pioneer of free-market capitalism. Frederic Bastiat Bastiat's output was prodigious, especially in the last five years of his life. Through his writing and speeches, and as a member of the French Chamber of Deputies, Bastiat fought valiantly against the protectionism and socialism of his time. He proselytized for free trade, free markets and individual liberty. His weapons were wit and satire; his method was the reductio ad absurdum. More than any other person before or since, he exposed economic fallacies with a clarity, simplicity and humor that left opponents with no place to hide. The most famous example of Bastiat's satire was his petition to the French parliament on behalf of candlemakers and related industries. He was seeking relief from ruinous competition of a foreign rival who works under conditions so far superior to our own for the production of light that he is flooding the domestic market with it at an incredibly low price. The foreign rival was the sun. The relief sought was a law requiring the closing of all blinds to shut out the sunlight and stimulate the domestic candle industry. Despite the publication of Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations decades earlier, Bastiat was still fighting the mercantilist view of exports as good and imports as bad. He pointed out that under this view, the ideal situation would be for a ship loaded with exports to sink at sea. One nation gets the benefit of exporting and no nation has to bear the burden of importing. Bastiat once saw an editorial proposing a Bordeaux stop on the railroad from Paris to Spain to stimulate local business. He wondered, why only Bordeaux? Why not have a stop in every single town along the way -- a neverending series of breaks -- so the prosperity could be enjoyed by all? They could call it a negative railroad. This point is true even today. Trade with Mexico has boomed since the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement and so has truck traffic across the Rio Grande. Luckily we have bridges to facilitate the crossing. But while the bridges were made for crossing, the hundreds of warehouses near the border were not. They're for storing and waiting -- where Mexican truckers are required to hand over their cargo to domestic carriers. Bastiat had his negative railroads. We have negative bridges. Then there's Bastiat's broken-window fallacy. It seems someone broke a window. It's unfortunate, but there's a silver lining. Money spent to repair the window will bring new business to the repairman. He, in turn, will spend his higher income and generate more business for others. The broken window could ultimately create a boom. Wait a minute, Bastiat cautioned. That's based only on what is seen. You must also consider what is not seen -- what does not happen. What is not seen is how the money would have been spent if the window had not been broken. The broken window didn't increase spending; it diverted spending. Obvious? Sure, but we fall for a version of the broken-window fallacy every time we evaluate the impact of a government program without considering what taxpayers would have done with the money instead. Some people even judge monetary policy by what happens, without considering what might have happened. Most economic myths give way to Bastiat's distinction between the seen and the unseen. Related concepts include half truths and whole truths, intended and unintended consequences, the short run and long run and partial effects and total effects. Henry Hazlitt expanded on these themes in his wonderful book, Economics in One Lesson. If you don't have time to read Bastiat's collected works, try Hazlitt's book. Bastiat called attention to the absurdities that come from favoring producers over consumers and sellers over buyers. Producers benefit from scarcity and high prices while consumers benefit from abundance and low prices. Government policies favoring producers, therefore, tend to favor scarcity over abundance. They shrink the pie. Bastiat stressed that because we
[e-gold-list] Re: Cover story in Gold Magazine
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i just saw a copy of _Gold Magazine_ containing an article about online gold currencies. the cover blurb: e-gold: interactive currency of the future? for more info, try this PDF link: http://www.gold.org/Gra/Pr/Gold_website_ad.pdf jay w. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right now at: http://www.gold.org/Gra/Pr/Gold_website_ad.pdf the cover of Gold, issue 4, says: GoldMoney gives e-commerce the green light; in a paragraph about the contents. They might be giving each GBC it's turn. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Defense Fund - Update
Chris Lord-Van Voorst wrote: There are those of us on the e-gold list who don't even know who Charles Evans is. No one has yet to explain why Evans deserves funding in his fight against e-gold. If there's more to the story, I'd like to hear it. Until then, any pleas on Evans' behalf are meaningless, in my opinion... Chris Lord-Van Voorst Chris, People fear frivolous law suites now a days so you probably won't get much history from this list. However, this is a great example of the importance of reputation capital. This list is almost 2 years old now. Both on and off list, Charles and Ian have built impecable reputations. Doug has built a reputation also. Reputations are built by what one says and doesn't say. By what one does and doesn't do. On list and off. A single action can ruin the value built of years of what you say and do. Charles and Ian understand this and take their reputations dead seriously. I have no doubt about those two. I'd put money up for Charles in a heart beat. And I have. And, as a shareholder in GSR, I'm really, really dissapointed in Doug and Barry, and think Doug's CEO butt should be fired. I believe chairman of the board is the appropiate place for Doug's butt. I think these suits (according to a Bob Hettinga post to his list, Ian was served again in Edinburgh, They got Ian Grigg, too.) that Doug has decided to pursue are going to turn out to be a substantial negative for e-gold and the value of my shares. As Khurram Khan a while back on this list pointed out, there is no mystery to starting a private gold backed currency business. Time will tell. Did you miss this post? Subject: [e-gold-list] Termination of services to DigiGold II Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 01:04:50 +0100 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- begin forwarded text Status: U Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:41:04 -0400 From: Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Bearerinstruments.com To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [e-gold-list] Termination of services to DigiGold II Subject: [Webfunds-users] Termination of services to DigiGold II (June 19th) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:21:58 -0400 From: Jeroen C. van Gelderen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Systemics Inc. To: WebFunds Users [EMAIL PROTECTED] L.S., On 21 May 2001 Ian Grigg announced that Systemics Inc. would cease supporting DigiGold on the 25th of May 2001 due to non-payment leading to termination of the contract between both parties. In a subsequent email this shutdown date was pushed forward by one week to give DigiGold users a bit more time to take action. Tuesday 29th of May an injunction was filed against Systemics to prevent us from shutting down the DigiGold Issuance Server. The matter was deferred until the 19th of June. This morning we went to court 9:00 (GMT-4). The judge heard the case in private chambers so we do not have all the details. We know our counsel proposed that the injunction could be sustained if DigiGold were to pay our operational costs. The opposition apparently did not accept this offer. The net-effect is that the judge decided to discharge the injunction and to award Systemics costs. We are still faced with an unfortunate situation: Systemics has operated the DigiGold Issuance Server at it's own expense for the past year. We can no longer afford to do so as this negatively impacts our paying customers. We have therefore decided to take the DigiGold Issuance Server offline. That will happen today (June 19th). For DigiGold users this means that it will no longer possible to make payments in any of the four DigiGold metals. We regret any inconvenience this may cause. Regards, Jeroen -- Jeroen C. van Gelderen - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ WebFunds-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.webfunds.org/mailman/listinfo/webfunds-users --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' Or this one: Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: it never ends!!! Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:54:54 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED
[e-gold-list] Re: Insurance for Unauthorized Access / fone 860-277-0111
Which reminds me. Anybody know if Doug ever got e-gold off of the Windoze operating system? It can be made pretty secure but with a lot of unnecessary work. And, it can be kept pretty secure but with a lot of unnecessary work. Wasting scarce or non-renewable (time, energy) is not too cool. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] IFGETD contract
JP, How often is the price of gold calculated for the IFGETD contract? Once a day? Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: IFGETD contract
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JP, How often is the price of gold calculated for the IFGETD contract? Once a day? Bob, sorry if it isn't clear. It's actually THE PRICE OF E-GOLD. Ah. Yes. I didn't pick up on that distinction. I guess they're ready to change the price of e-gold a number of times a day if they think necessary. A good proxy for the price of gold. It's an USDollar-against-egold contract. (So, Jay could be a cheater by temporarily changing the price to the advantage of his contracts! :) ) The price is checked every single time anything is done on the system. So, you look at your personal details page, the price is checked at that instant. You close a contract, the price is checked at that instant, you look at the live stats page, the price is checked at that instant - and so on. Since there's 2-4 million per day in e-gold transactions (approaching 1% of the level of the NZ Dollar!) it seems a good price-information-source to trade the USD against. Yes. I think it's a very good source. This is an excellent trading capability that you've created here, JP. It's super! Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] ANNOUNCING the world's first bailed metal derivatives exchange
Only the handful of people on this mailing list will know about it, but there it is. Not quite, now. Hip spreads fast::) Subject: [e-gold-list] ANNOUNCING the world's first bailed metal derivatives exchange. Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:01:42 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:57:02 +1000 To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [e-gold-list] ANNOUNCING the world's first bailed metal derivatives exchange. ANNOUNCING the world's first bailed metal derivatives/futures exchange. http://www.bamdex.com In fifteen minutes it is 6/30/2001 -- and that is the 200th birthday of Frederic Bastiat. Bastiat was an very early and very influential LAISSEZ FAIREIST -- sort of a Thomas Paine of France, intelligent, brilliant, witty and 200 years ahead of his time, for sure. The BAILED METALS DERIVATIVE EXCHANGE -- Bamdex -- is the most important web site. Why? Without a futures market, a derivatives market, there is no real trading and no real financial market. Giants like Honna, God of the markets in 16th century Japan who invented futures trading in the East, knew this. Time is the second and critical dimension to price. As much as e-gold (and the concept of a bailed metal) is an incredible breakthrough in the concept of money macroshistorically, the step of making a futures exchange, based on bailed money, is an obivous and indeed fairly easy one. With help from everyone and plenty of tech support from Jay and Jim at e-gold we've managed to patch together the FIRST REAL-MONEY .. bailed metal money .. derivatives exchange, and there's still 7 1/2 minutes until 6/30/2001. You can now hedge on the price of gold USING e-gold ITSELF. Be a member! You can cross a contract with yourself and nothing bad will happen (there are no commissions or fees). Take part in history. Only the handful of people on this mailing list will know about it, but there it is. Dedicated to Frederic Bastiat on his 20th birthday: the Bailed Metals Derivatives Exchange. Bamdex! A members site. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.bamdex.com At last! You can trade the price of gold using e-gold®. Instantaneously, easily. Trading in IFGETDs is now available to e-gold users who are members of bamdex.com. IFGETDs®. . . Indefinite Future, Gold-Expressed, Thousand Dollar contracts The IFGETD® or thousand dollar contract let's you hedge or speculate on movements in the price of gold, using e-gold. Operation is as easy as e-gold itself. . .one click. The margin for one IFGETD contract is only 5 grams, allowing members to control $1000.00 worth of gold. Buy a IFGETD going up if you think the price of e-gold is about to go up. Buy a IFGETD going down if you think the price of e-gold is about to go down. Your position will move up or down with the price of e-gold. If the price of gold rises so that it takes an extra (say) 1.5 grams to get USD$1000.00, your up contract will grow by 1.5 grams. See all contract activity live -- top right of this page. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Twinings
http://www.twinings.com/ Since the supermarkets don't always stock what I want (Lapsang Souchong, mostly), I order Twinings tea from Twinings' Web site. Too bad they don't take gold as their service is good. How many of you are into tea? Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: just FWIW
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.bananagold.com/tasteful.gif Alright, all you 'want ta hold e-gold back spend page purists'. What's the matter with that? SHOW ME THE PROBLEM! :) And Doug is out there sueing willy nilly instead of taking care of business. Of course that's just my opinion. Bob -- http://www.constructiongigs.com/ Use gold as money. It's easy. Create a free e-gold account here: http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=101670 ConstructionGigs.com's PGP public key is here: http://www.constructiongigs.com/assets/DH-DSSkey.txt Fingerprint: 3C4D A63F 3C8B 2D7B 7E1A FFE8 9A2E 4D78 CAD6 66B7 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Gold's price
Bob wrote: http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/81 The chart is not updated with today's data yet, but the price broke down through the up trend line to about 272. Makes sense as yesterdays volume was not high and 'nem' barely budged up in price. Gold's price still needs a rest. By the way, today's price action formed a 2-b end of trend signal. In an up trend, within 1-4 days, the latest low is lower than the previous low. It did it in one day. Not that markets always observe trend signals. Not that the 2-b is saying the trend is now down. Not that the 2-b is saying that the trend is now sideways. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: it never ends!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 7:52 AM -0700 6/26/01, Charles Evans wrote: Please pardon the impersonality of this message. It is going to several recipients. While attending a conference in Scotland, I was served a 15-page civil complaint, initiated by Gold Silver Reserve, this morning. They accuse me, personally, of Misappropriation of Trade Secrets, Tortious Interference with Prospective Economic Advantage, Unfair Business Practices, and Breach of the Duty of Loyalty. I categorically dispute these claims. If this adversely affects your willingness to do business with me, please let me know. Charles Evans Great! Sueing past employees! How is e-gold going to attract talented employees in the future? What affect is this going to have on their current employees? Doug, have you flipped your lid? Are you off your rocker? Do you realize that by sueing Ian and Charles (both highly respected people, partly due to a high degree of quality to their characters) that you have probably guaranteed that you will never, ever get good financial cryptographers to work for you again? Word of this is spreading fast. Do you think you have all the code that you will ever need? Not a chance. You can drive e-gold into the ground but the world won't care. We already have GoldMoney and soon E-Bullion, and more to come. And, it is my opinion that you're not the first founder and CEO, however bright and knowledgable, that should be relieved of his CEO duties. Bob I feel like a BOZO because *I* have never been sued by GSR !!! I'm so out of it. I know man. It's a bummer. But you have got to try to pull yourself out of it. It's not healthy being bummed out for too long. Come on, JP. Get a grip on it. Remember, you're not alone. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: egold is a shit currency for scams and hyips
Viking Coder wrote: The main question again is - Why should e-gold bother? To make money. That's the *point* to being in business. To *increase* gross revenue. To increase shareholders' value. They don't need the money, which is usually the primary reason for hosting advertising. Huh? Where did you ever get an idea like that? Do you believe that e-gold should keep it's growth rates slower than they can be? They can't offer anything other than untargeted ads without violating their user privacy agreements. Untargeted ads is what's needed. They could end up alienating users who don't want to see ads when using a service that they are paying for. They could (and it looks like they already have) alienate serious businesses who want to use e-gold *if* they can communicate with most e-gold users, which they cannot do now. Which has the better net effect for e-gold? I can't objectively say. But the banner ad concept on the spend page is screaming at me: DO IT! The founding of Amazon was brilliant. The founding of e-gold was brilliant. Do they have what it takes to succeed and compete in the long run? That's another whole story. It's not clear to me at all. Is e-gold running scared, looking over it's shoulder at it's competition? Not that I can see. Bob -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Is there Anyway Out for Amazon.com?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simple fact: The only way you can reach people who use e-gold...is on the e-gold mailing list. Which is a sorry state of affairs. Particularly when something can be done about it. It's an absurd situation. What a great example of how to *hold back* e-gold accepting businesses! I feel like we're inside a Civilization game and there's some fucking idiot playing. --Michael T. McNamara Love it! :) Bob -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: ahh! now it's clear
Viking Coder wrote: Does anybody say 'Our service isn't being used enough, we need to start accepting advertising.' I never heard anybody say that. But just because nobody says it does not make it a false statement. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Termination of services to DigiGold II
Subject: [Webfunds-users] Termination of services to DigiGold II (June 19th) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:21:58 -0400 From: Jeroen C. van Gelderen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Systemics Inc. To: WebFunds Users [EMAIL PROTECTED] L.S., On 21 May 2001 Ian Grigg announced that Systemics Inc. would cease supporting DigiGold on the 25th of May 2001 due to non-payment leading to termination of the contract between both parties. In a subsequent email this shutdown date was pushed forward by one week to give DigiGold users a bit more time to take action. Tuesday 29th of May an injunction was filed against Systemics to prevent us from shutting down the DigiGold Issuance Server. The matter was deferred until the 19th of June. This morning we went to court 9:00 (GMT-4). The judge heard the case in private chambers so we do not have all the details. We know our counsel proposed that the injunction could be sustained if DigiGold were to pay our operational costs. The opposition apparently did not accept this offer. The net-effect is that the judge decided to discharge the injunction and to award Systemics costs. We are still faced with an unfortunate situation: Systemics has operated the DigiGold Issuance Server at it's own expense for the past year. We can no longer afford to do so as this negatively impacts our paying customers. We have therefore decided to take the DigiGold Issuance Server offline. That will happen today (June 19th). For DigiGold users this means that it will no longer possible to make payments in any of the four DigiGold metals. We regret any inconvenience this may cause. Regards, Jeroen -- Jeroen C. van Gelderen - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ WebFunds-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.webfunds.org/mailman/listinfo/webfunds-users --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: beginning of end for USA?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: electricity price controls in California??? a second Carter-era on the way? Isn't that something. Price controls among other things caused the shortage of electricity. Their governor is proposing more price controls to solve the problem, not to mention government ownership (communism) of the distribution grid out there. The governor's solutions to the problem is what caused the problem. Californians appear to be going for it. -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] major buyers?
From: http://chat.goldmoney.com/June01.pdf Page 9 According to GATA, three major buyers of gold have just recently emerged. They are, George Soros, the Chinese government and a middle-eastern government. Indeed according to rumors from a Russian economic conference, it seems as though the Chinese may be taking a hard stand against the U.S. by swapping some of its enormous surplus of dollars for gold in an effort to move toward a golden Yuan, which they hope to use to replace the dollar as a reserve currency, at least in Asia. Politically this is said to be very popular with Asian governments that remain extremely angry about how the U.S. abused them during the 1998 Asian crisis. -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] EFCE
Subject: EFCE - everything you ever wanted to know about Financial Cryptography Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:28:55 -0400 From: Ian Grigg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] EFCE 01 is almost upon us. It goes without saying that the answers to all these business questions that are floating around the net -- for the umpteenth time -- are at EFCE. Because we insist on running code demos, we cut to the core of the question. upbeat Got a problem understanding why ecash isn't in widespread use today? You'll see why at EFCE! Is one technology better than another? See them in action. Can't differentiate between opposing views? Make up your mind from RUNNING CODE, not by reading how one journalist argues with another about the relevance of one over-hyped view against another. Don't be mislead by those wordy experts; they have no running code, but you will, at EFCE. Want to know how to enter the business? There are several systems on display at EFCE, of course. One third of all presentations made or advanced deals last year, making EFCE the most concentrated event in the field. What's it used for? Applications, actual, real, running, user applications will be presented. Only at EFCE. /hype Of course, EFCE's not really about hype. We are on a mission to cut through the mystery. Join us and vote on whether we're successful. http://www.efce.net/ this coming friday saturday. -- iang -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: eCurrency Trade Association Inc.
George Matyjewicz wrote: Unfortunately, an association like eCTA doesn't carry much weight unless it is licensed, like the Bar Association, George, We in the US do not have a choice but to deal with licensed lawyers. What? There's a bunch of unlicensed lawyers sitting around out there waiting for business to come their way? We don't have any choice in the matter because of the government. That's why the ABA has weight. It's legally taken choice away from us here in the US. Licenses are just an anti-competition thing. They certainly don't mean you're good at what you do as lawyers, doctors and pipefitters have demonstrated over and over again. Why should anybody pay a government for permission to work? That doesn't make any sense, George. It's rediculous concept. If money changers should be licensed, why shouldn't private money producing companies be required to be license by the government? Why wouldn't you be advocating that next? George __ George Matyjewicz, President/General Manager Standard Transactions (BVI) Limited World Wide Currency for the World http://www.standardreserve.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.bearerinstruments.com A Directory of Web sites and Internet presences accepting non-fiat monies. http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt 650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: eCurrency Trade Association Inc.
George Matyjewicz wrote: Unfortunately, an association like eCTA doesn't carry much weight unless it is licensed, like the Bar Association, We in the US do not have a choice but to deal with licensed lawyers. What? There's a bunch of unlicensed lawyers sitting around out there waiting for business to come their way? We don't have any choice in the matter because of the government. That's why the ABA has weight. It's legally taken choice away from us here in the US. Yes. They are called Paralegals and are legal in many states. And they are called accountants or tax preparers, rather than CPAs. The difference is if you want to deal with the court you need a lawyer, or with investors you need a CPA. Licenses are just an anti-competition thing. They certainly don't mean you're good at what you do as lawyers, doctors and pipefitters have demonstrated over and over again. How else does one evaluate a professional? Most evaluate any *licensed* professional the same way you evaluate any *unlicensed* professional. By paste performance via recommendations. How do you evaluate a professional? Why should anybody pay a government for permission to work? That doesn't make any sense, George. It's rediculous concept. Who is suggesting paying for permission to work? Licensing can be an education issue. CPAs are licensed by the state board of education, not the government. You're saying that a state board of education is not the government? If money changers should be licensed, why shouldn't private money producing companies be required to be license by the government? Who said they should be licensed? From your statement, I'm inferring that's what you meant: Unfortunately, an association like eCTA doesn't carry much weight unless it is licensed,. I can be wrong about my inference. If the association needs to be licensed, do you think licensing of the members is not far behind? It's another tax opportunity for a government. That's all, unless the assoc. requested the licensing. Then it's an anti-competition act on the association's part. I said an association that is not a licensing body is merely a trade association, and has little weight in the business world. Does the Web Consultant's Association mean anything? Not to me, and if they were licensed, that would mean even less. What don't governments require a license to do nowadays? Would you select a Web consultant because he/she was a member of that association? I personally believe the eCTA is a good thing. However, I don't know if it will make the general public feel any better. Let's give a scenario here: assume an exchange agent decides to offer poor service to a customer, or rips off a customer. Will the eCTA black ball that agent? What if it's not true? Will the eCTA run the risk of being sued for defamation of character? If it doesn't protect the public or settle arbitration, What's protecting the public and arbitrating got to do with licensing? You're original statement: Unfortunately, an association like eCTA doesn't carry much weight unless it is licensed, then it is merely a trade association organized for the benefit of it's members. George __ George Matyjewicz, President/General Manager Standard Transactions (BVI) Limited World Wide Currency for the World http://www.standardreserve.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
