[e-gold-list] Re: ARE E-GOLD COMMISSION RATES A RIP_OFF?
I am an e-gold virgin, looking at the cost of funding an e-gold account. Typical rates quoted are 7.5% - 5%. Are these really the best rates to be had? It sounds like a lot to pay for a basic transaction? Eurogoldline (http://www.eurogoldline.nl) charge 3% Fidex (http://www.e-fidex.com) redeem for free. Both are 100% reliable. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: ...will e-gold become mainstream?...
Hi All, As a new, curious, list member, I must say that I can relate to Mark's perspective. Given the advantages of e-gold style commerce, don't we owe it to ourselves to get this moving? Whoever gets this going on Internet time does themselves, and the rest of the planet, a huge service... Any of you entrepreneurs listening ?... The problem is simply that nearly every country has different national payment clearing systems, so it is impossible to set up an interface which accepts payments direct from people's bank accounts. Payment systems where the merchant can dip into the customer's account on his own initiative (such as credit cards, or online checks in the USA, or bank account debits in Europe) must always have a sound right of chargeback to protect the customers. And banks understandably don't want to get involved in settling disputes, so they inevitably err on the side of the customer. That, however, makes it very easy for fraudulent customers to place the order, then claim later that they didn't. Therefore the only really safe way for market makers to sell e-gold is the kind of money transfer which is initiated by the customer. If you go to the bank and initiate a wire transfer, you won't be able to go back later and say it was done without your permission. In most countries with decent internet banking (not the USA, where about all you can do is check balances) you can make at least domestic transfers if not international transfers from within internet banking systems. I think this is the way to go for any entrepreneurs out there who want to sell e-gold online in real time. I think it's reasonable to assume that most people who want to use e-gold will already have some form of online access to their bank accounts (is it??) so you need to work with major banks to create an e-gold purchasing interface that takes people directly to their own bank where they can initiate the transfer to the bank's satisfaction. The other approach is a technical system which requires a chip-type credit card, then a card reader connected to the customer's PC. I believe Amex has experimented with this is in the USA, and the system is in regular use at merchants in Europe but it has yet to enter the home. At the moment it seems like a geek toy rather than a serious payment system. The problem is, if it is ever universally adopted, people won't need e-gold any more... offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: List rules (yes, I meant it)
I must also object here jim. It is not uncommon for more then two discussions to be happenning at the same time on the list. Aside from that, it is also not uncommon for people to go back and forth on an issue, the recent debate of Pecunix is an example. The only thing that I see a quota doing is limiting discussion which ironically contradicts the idea of a discussion list. Am I wrong here? Jim, Yes I agree too. I must admit I delete a lot of the posts on this list without even reading them - I have no interest in gold coins or casions for example - but there are also some really interesting threads which will be severely limited by this restriction. I don't think there were too many posts before so I don't really see a need for a limit at all. Did somebody complain? As regards digest versions... I think human nature will make them almost always unreadable, and then there's the issue of doing so much cutting and pasting if you want to reply to something, changing the subject line back to match the thread etc... It's much better just to do what I do and subscribe to the full version using a dedicated free email account. Then when you are travelling or really busy you don't get bothered by any postings from any list, but when you have time you can go through everything... gmx (www.gmx.net) for example is perfect for this because it allows access via both POP3 and webmail. Respectfully, offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Pecunix News
Hi guys I don't know the regulations of the Security Exchange commisions in New Zealand, but here in Canada and to a lesser degree in the USA as well, a public junior company listed on our exchanges would be asked to remove this publicity immediately. What have the SEC in NZ, Canada or USA to do with this share offer? This appears to be a PPO out of Panama. Which is great. As my name suggests, I'm a big offshore fan. But I also think it is absolutely fair to use SEC rules from other countries for *comparitive* purposes - ie, helping people understand the investment you are making. I only have a problem if the SEC themselves start sticking their noses in. Here you show your glaring lack of knowledge. When has stock value ever represented the enterprise value? Ever heard of the PE ratio? Huh??? The total stock value is the total enterprise value. You can't really argue with that one. If I want to buy the enterprise, I have to buy the stock, therefore the stock price is the value. People who believe otherwise are numerous, but they are just the same kind of idiots who invested money in dot com businesses last year. In their consolidated income statement, Pecunix shows 10 million in earnings for year 2. This would give a PE ratio of about 40 - 50 at the figures you quote above. That is a VERY reasonable PE ratio for a high growth industry company. AFAIK Pecunix have not even started business yet so they cannot issue consolidated income statements for year 2. They can only issue a cash flow forecast. As for the PE ratio it sounds outrageous to me, but I was never a fan of this kind of investment. unreasonable figure. Remember, the share price IN NO WAY reflects the value of the company once the shares trade freely on a public exchange. What a load of BS. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Pecunix News
http://biz.yahoo.com/p/y/yhoo.html. Stock prices are NEGOTIABLE - if you want to buy the enterprise you offer to buy the stock for whatever you PERCIEVE is a fair value. If others won't sell to you, they PERCIEVE the value to be higher - it is ALL just smoke and mirrors. Yes, exactly. The median at which people will actually BUY and others will SELL is the market value. Just like with gold, just like with used cars, just like with caviar... you name it. Who cares what people perceive if they don't act on their perceptions. I sure am glad you are not my investment advisor. The feeling is mutual. Anyway this has nothing whatsoever to do with e-gold. Let's quit the discussion here. best, offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Oh, NO! It's happened again! Grrrr
www.aeabank.com is not even an active website! Search on Asia-Europe-Americas Bank of Seattle and you'll get virtually nothing! So who has ever really seen this bank? What about real Mexican or Canadian banks in the ACH? Any suggestions? (Last time I checked you had to have a Mexican address to open a Mexican bank account, but this should be cheaper than a maildrop in the United States (of America).) My apologies, I got the URL slightly wrong as I was going from memory. It should have been http://www.aea-bank.com You can also find their secured credit card for non-US residents at http://www.creditnet.com I'm not aware of Mexican banks participating in ACH but you probably know more than I do. I can open an account for you at Banamex, now part of Citibank, if you wish, no Mexican address required since we provide one and send everything to you by courier. You get a Gold Mastercard and internet banking too. But there is a fee involved and it's more than a US maildrop. As I recall, the Dutch post also handles clearing through ACH ... try http://www.globalcollect.nl Best offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: AEA Bank
'aeabank.com'. I see again (like other US Banks) they require USD$10,000 to open a bank account for a business! (USD$5,000 for an individual.) ... Yes, that is new. A few months ago it was $100 but I guess they got too many timewasters. Let's face it a bank can't service HYIP enthusiasts with $100 in their accounts and make money. Likewise, the monthly fees on US bank accounts dwarf the average Australian bank account keeping fees and shows how reasonable the e-gold agio fee really is! I have emailed them for any special rates they might have. Agreed about e-gold. You will really freak if you look at the fees for their credit card on the site I just posted! But people are prepared to pay this so who am I to complain :) They are the only US bank I know of which actively targets Russians... you can even get their account opening forms in Russian. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Hushmail upgraded
You're lucky, JMR. My machine freezes most of the time I try to get into Hushmail now. And I've tried accessing it with 3 different machines in fact. The new upgrade seems full of bugs. I think they could have planned this upgrade a lot better. I can't believe the slowness is because it's so popular. Anyway, I have got in a few times and agree it looks like it'll be good in time. offshoresurfer - Original Message - From: James M. Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 July 2001 13:41 Subject: [e-gold-list] Hushmail upgraded http://www.hushmail.com Apparently, the good folks at Hushmail have come out with an update for their encrypted e-mail system, and it looks interesting (and popular, their site was SLOW yesterday!). Anyway, they do accept e-gold, but I really hope to help them accept it more-smoothly, since they could in theory fully-automate e-gold upgrades (or at least reduce the need for human intervention and the consequent delay). Polite, well-thought-out emails from users asking for this might help -- I've already told them that they should also put up a tipjar for users who just appreciate the totally 'nymous email accounts made possible by this system. Thanks. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Oh, NO! It's happened again! Grrrr
Take your business offshore, Graham. Who wants American banks? They are *almost* as bad as British banks. If you need USD, GBP, AUD etc accounts email me off list and I can get you very good check clearing rates offshore. offshoresurfer - Original Message - From: Graham Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 July 2001 22:58 Subject: [e-gold-list] Oh, NO! It's happened again! G Guys, Well, I can hardly BELIEVE it... Bank of America have CANCELLED our business corporation bank account AGAIN! Why? NO-BODY knows... What is it with this crazy bank? G How can a LEGITIMATE, HONEST person, with INTEGRITY, have a bank account cancelled? They OBVIOUSLY have a problem at their management level; I'd recommend you all take your business elsewhere, and sell any shares you may hold in this excuse for a bank. I will be publishing a website, detailing their antics over the past year. I'll advise the URL as soon as I have it up. In our business, we have to be aware of crooks, thieves, and... errant banks! Graham Kelly CEO GoldNow Corporation http://www.GoldNow.St Fax +1(312)777-4270 or +1(509)278-2268 UK Phone/Fax +44 (0)709-233-7612 USA Phone +1(817)238-9955 or cellphone +1(817)266-1678 Had a good experience with us? Tell the world! Please vote at my site! If you would like a free e-gold, Standard Reserve, or OSGOLD account, please apply at my site! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Oh, NO! It's happened again! Grrrr
On Fri, Jul 20, 2001 at 11:22:35PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take your business offshore, Graham. Who wants American banks? They are *almost* as bad as British banks. If you need USD, GBP, AUD etc accounts email me off list and I can get you very good check clearing rates offshore. The whole point of Graham using US banks is so US customers can walk in and direct deposit cash to fund their e-gold account. I don't see how an offshore bank can help in this type of transaction. True enough, but I thought clearing USD checks, money orders and wires was fairly central to the strategy and that can be done offshore. I would recommend Asia-Europe-Americas Bank of Seattle, WA (www.aeabank.com) to any non-residents of USA who are seeking to open an account there. I believe AEA maintain a correspondent account with Bank of America. Whether this allows direct cash deposits I don't know, as I'm not familiar with the domestic US credit transfer system. I believe it's possible through ACH??? I find it's generally better to deal with small banks like this where you can develop personal relationships with people who actually make an effort to understand your business, rather than faceless big banks. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: E-Gold New Story 7/10/01
Sure they would get hit by chargebacks, but they know that keeping satisfied customers is cheaper then getting new onces. Who wants to keep the type of customer who does chargebacks? Any reasonable cardholder returns merchandise or whatever directly to merchant and gets a credit processed, which saves everyone a lot of work and bank fees. Anyone who does a chargeback without having been directly defrauded is probably a fraudster themselves. It's a pity card companies don't realise this. In fact, anyone who is of the mentality to defraud a merchant will more than likely end up defrauding the card issuer in the end too. So much for always coming down on the side of the cardholder... Also, if a case arrises that a brick and mortar store wants to see an ID, my guess is that they are more likely to ask for some thing harder then just an account number and password. What is to stop a meatspace store from requiring a show of ID? In order for you to be purchasing from them, you have to be physically present. They can refuse to accept your e-gold just like they can refuse to accept any other type of payment. In the case of age-restricted items (tobacco, alcohol, firearms, etc...) they would require the same ID if I tried to pay with paper cash, e-gold, or a credit card. As an aside, I spent the last few days with a fellow obsessive paranoid privacy freak who printed up his own home-designed Latin American ID card in Spanglish to use when paying by credit card. I was really surprised how little reaction this card got from retail staff in Europe. Wherever we go to eat or shop, he shows it and it is accepted without question. Personally I don't use any payment cards of any sort, just cash, but I would recommend the above strategy to people wishing to use credit cards who are annoyed by ID requirements. It just goes to show how futile these ID demands are. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: E-Gold to Paypal
Hello Eric, Thanks for your detailed reply. First of all may I say you are absolutely entitled to run your business any way you like, including asking for ID, and I am happy to follow your suggestion of using MMs who do not ask for ID. So we are both in agreement, basically. See my other comments below: exploiting e-gold's system. Who can stop them? I do not know. I DO know that the amount of counterfeit checks, reversed payments, and claims of fraud against Gaithmans has dropped to nearly 0% (probably .05) since we began requiring ID and a home phone number to call our clients. Yes, I can believe that. However if you accept, say, wire transfers as a form of payment, or cash paid in over the counter to one of your bank accounts, I would say it is non-repudiable anyway. If I pay by check, I think it is reasonable that someone waits until the check has cleared before providing services. Anyone who sends counterfeit checks etc to someone who does business on that basis must be just an idiot and idiot criminals can't represent such a big threat. What I can suggest is you continue to use the services of MM's that DO NOT require ID. My prediction is that these MM's will continue to have problems with fraud, continue to get hit with counterfeit documents, continue to have the Auction scams pulled on them, and eventually they will go out of business OR start asking for ID. You do see on Omnipay's order template you must provide a e-mail address and phone number, correct? I have always left the phone number section blank, it's not compulsory, and have never had this queried. What amuses me as a Market Maker is the fact that people are offended when I ask for identification. Are you really so afraid to prove who you are? One basic objection is that one can never be sure it will stay in your hands. As you say yourself, you will happily hand over info to law enforcement, but law enforcement often target innocent people. I'm not a criminal but I don't trust law enforcement either - after reading of Parker Bradley's experience, for example. But in principle, I feel I'm entitled to conduct my internet life in anonymity. I don't even have a home telephone (that's the truth) so I wouldn't be able to deal with you anyway. I really think this whole auction scam thing all the MMs keep bringing up is overblown. I have never participated in an online auction in my life, but sending money in advance for goods which don't arrive is a scam as old as the hills. I am quite sure these scammers must use methods other than e-gold to do the same thing, yet we never hear about it. If you send money to someone like that it's on trust, and if you trust someone and it doesn't work out, well it's really your tough luck. There are plenty of alternatives like escrow services or sending goods via cash-on-delivery service, or paying by credit card that offers protection. I don't see why the whole e-gold community has to put up with restrictions on free trade because of a few scammers. Whilst I don't like scammers, I think the victims must share much of the blame in these cases. Euro Gold Line and Omnipay are both very professional and neither demand ID. This is not surprising. But I am curious, without it, how do they complete the Due Diligence that various members of their administration tout on this discussion list? I don't know, not my problem. As far as I'm concerned, due diligence is what these auction scam victims should be concerned with, because they are the ones sending money. If someone or their third party or dog or whatever wants to send me cleared funds to do business, then due diligence is not of concern to me. Probably the above mentioned MMs áre of the same opinion. Regards offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: E-Gold to Paypal
Having a payment be non-repudiable does not stop a main scam being used TODAY: I still think anyone who sends money up front without having any idea about the seller (e-Bay has a perfectly good system of feedback on sellers, they have escrow facilities etc etc) basically only has themselves to blame. It is not something any person with half a brain would do, unless perhaps they are taking a calculated risk because it seems like such a great deal. I am fed up with us legitimate e-gold users who have nothing to do with online auctions having to put up with these idiots being used an excuse for less privacy all the time. I think the only way that e-gold can be safely sold anonymously, is if the buyer pays for it anonymously. I don't understand what you mean here??? Sounds like the perfect system to me, but it's not like the same person buys gold and then sells the same gold again. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: E-Gold to Paypal
Hi, OK, but how does the Exchange Service stop the police from being called by those who get scammed, over and over again, with accusations that YOU are the thief? It's not possible to continue to do business in that kind of environment. I totally agree. I can only imagine that that kind of environment you are referring to must be the USA and that it must be impractical to run a MM business from there. I think even in nanny Western European socialist states, the police would politely tell the victim it's a civil matter, to take more care next time they choose to send money to some unknown character, and duly file it away somewhere while they get on with investigating more important crimes. I mean to send money like that, and then to blame the MM on top of it, these people must be absolute retards. I find it hard to believe that the situation is really so bad. Thankfully, however, the Bush administration seems intent on cutting back some of the intrusive anti-financial-privacy legislation such as automatic reporting. What I mean is, is that as long as the e-gold seller doesn't know the buyer, and the buyer makes a traceable payment to the seller, then the seller has to identify the buyer. There's no way for the buyer to make a payment without a traceable payment, other than walking in with cash in hand. OK, I understand, but on the other hand if the buyer makes a traceable payment to the seller they have ALREADY identified themselves. Maybe the MM does not know who they are, but there is an audit trail back through the banking system which law enforcement can follow if the guy turns out to be a big-time crook. This is effectively what Omnipay, for example, say on their website. They say reporting is not required because they only deal in traceable bank instruments. I think the Big Brother/SS/Money Laundering guys would argue it is MORE important to ask for ID when accepting a non-traceable payment. I would say, to hell with Big Brother. I don't exactly know the solution to this problem, but I'm not an MM - I am a consumer. I know I can pay by check or wire transfer to someone like Thomas Cook or currencies4less.com and once it has cleared I can get a credit instrument from them in another currency. They don't care if the check comes from a third party or whatever. Admittedly they do ask for ID. As an e-gold user I have plenty of choice still - Goldchanger take third party checks, Omnipay send wires in many currencies, Eurogoldline have access to bank accounts worldwide and accept Western Union, and I'm sure there will always be new MMs offering innovative services. While these people are happy to do business then I don't have any problems. I just don't see how these companies can offer those services, while others find the need for intrusive questioning and background checks. Just my two cents worth as it seems trendy to say on this list, and no I don't expect any tips for it :) offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: E-Gold to Paypal
OK, but how does the Exchange Service stop the police from being called by those who get scammed, over and over again, with accusations that YOU are the thief? It's not possible to continue to do business in that kind of environment As a postscript, if I was in that position it would not occur to me to call the police before I had at least called the person I sent the money to (ie the MM) who would presumably have a listed number. This whole auction scammers deal is incomprehensible... or maybe somebody has a hidden agenda. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: E-Gold to Paypal
Just wondered how you would go about deciding which outexchanges were ill gotten gains? Eric said he did verify ID, address, etc., what more would you need to assure yourself that it was clean money? ... One key thing is to only accept money from the person with whom you are conducting the transaction. Accepting a third-party wire from a third-party like Omnipay is probably not a good idea. In this case it probably didn't matter, but in general, you wouldn't know if the money you received, came from the person whose ID you checked. I know you guys have to protect yourself from unreasonable law enforcement, but from the point of view of a humble user, it's not really fair to ask for ID on an out-exchange (third party or not) bearing in mind that e-gold is basically an anonymous payment system and one can legitimately accumulate wealth in it without showing any ID. Personally I just object to people asking for my ID on principle when it is none of their business and will absolutely boycott any MMs who ask for ID for any transactions. While there are MMs not asking for ID I will always use them and if there are no more... well I might as well just use regular banks. Eurogoldline and Omnipay are both very professional and neither demand ID. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Help Please: Using e-gold to pay by credit card
Hi list, I asked this question a few days ago, but no replies. I remember there is a guy out there who will accept e-gold and then make proxy payments by credit card to any site. I really need this service but can't find a link to his site. Can anyone tell me his name and contact details please? Thanks offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Paritate?.....................
Paritate is dead. What is the first thing every account holder is going to do? pull out their money. Even if the situation gets resolved, no one is going to trust Paritate any more. This is one of those things you don't let happen. ONce it happens, the bank is dead. Even if someone bought the bank at this point, they would be buying an empty box. They would really have to do some fast talking to keep even 10% of their accounts in the bank. I understand your point, but a rescue package from another buyer is often an optimum solution for everybody. Just a couple of years ago the Riga Commerce Bank went through similar problems but was bought out by a German bank and now everybody is happy. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Paritate?
Callers to +371 704 1352 hear a short recorded message to the effect that Paritate's operations have been suspended by resolution of the national bank, and more details will be given later. I checked the Latvian national bank's website (www.bank.lv) but there is nothing about it there yet. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: New Kid On The Block
Osopps offers proven investments (see http://www.osopps.com ). There is no mention of High Yield investments. Are you saying that it is impossible to guarantee an investment? It is possible for anybody to guarantee anything. What's at issue is, what's the guarantee worth and where is the substance to back it up? Ultimately, a bank or government guarantee can even be worthless as has been proven many, many times. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Fw: Re: My security measures [Log-in #]
Why make it easy for even relatively unskilled hackers to raid e-gold a/cs? Why waste all the time, effort, money needed to effect such a change for relatively unskilled users who will just find another way to lose control of their account and demand yet more more ineffective security means because it wasn't their fault? You have to decide if you want the unskilled users or not... in other words, do you want a widely accepted payment system with critical mass, or do you want a payment system for transferring money between highly skilled techies? You may be technically correct, but have you ever heard of public relations? If people are your customers, it's worth trying to keep them happy even if they are idiots. I am absolutely not suggesting making payments non repudiable, but I think one or two extra security levels would be worthwhile... even just a separate passphrase for signing payment orders. As someone pointed out a couple of weeks ago, this would make attacks such as e-qold much harder since they would have to replicate the whole log-in procedure, give out correct balances etc and they could only grab the payment passphrase if someone decided to make a payment on their site. Finally I would make the point that a hell of a lot of people around the world use online banking, yet we don't hear in the media every day of accounts being raided. Yet on this list it seems to have become an almost daily occurence with regard to e-gold accounts. Would you care to comment on why this might be? offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Fw: [PT-Refuge] 370 Privacy - Trojan lets cyber-cops plant bogus evidence
forwarded from another list - A week ago there was an article about D.I.R.T. published in the Register as well as on this list. Here is another article by the same author who said that This story contains incomplete and inaccurate data Reg duped in D.I.R.T. debacle Crimebusting Trojan hawked by convicted felon. By Thomas C. Greene, The Register June 6, 2001 7:33 AM PT My recent article on the D.I.R.T. (Data Interception by Remote Transmission) Trojan, with which law-enforcement agents can secretly monitor a suspect's computer and which is marketed by surveillance outfit Codex Data Systems, contained several inaccuracies, all of which can be attributed solely to my own lapse in the skepticism for which The Reg in general, and I personally, are known. The full story, as it happens, is immensely more twisted than I imagined when I wrote my original item. Clearly, The Register's readers deserve better -- and here it is: S.C.A.M. Thanks to several e-mailed hints from readers, I continued doing background research and have now confirmed that the CEO of Codex Data Systems is one Francis Edward Frank Jones, a convicted felon currently on probation for illegal possession of surveillance devices. He was charged with trafficking and conspiracy to traffic in them, but in an agreement he pleaded guilty to simple possession, and the U.S. Government dropped the other two charges. He was sentenced to three-hundred hours' community service and five years' probation with no jail time, on the strength of his argument to the court that he was not responsible for his illegal acts by reason of mental defect. He has also been required to participate in a mental-health program, which, judging by some of his recent behavior, appears to be less than a screaming success. Jones is widely regarded as a scam artist with a long history of security/surveillance snake-oil sales. He has, for example, sold bug-detection services, which we're told are completely fraudulent, involving detection apparatus easily cobbled together from the inventory of Radio Shack. He's reported to have planted a bug which he subsequently 'found' during one such charade. A Legend in His Own Mind He's also a shameless, Boswellian self-promoter with a Web site devoted to himself in his on-line incarnation, SpyKing. Here we're told that SpyKing/Jones is formerly in military and law enforcement service, and a popular talk show guest with 15 appearances on national regional programming and news specials. As for his law-enforcement experience, we've since learned that he managed to get himself fired from the New York City Police Department in 1975, according to a letter by Association of Counter-Intelligence Professionals (ACIP) Executive Director Michael Richardson. But the PR beat goes on: Jones has lectured at M.I.T. (Massachussetts [sic] Institute of Technology) on TEMPEST computer eavesdropping techniques, his Web site claims. Indeed, No other speaker has their thumb on the pulse of changing world trends in immerging [sic] surveillance technologies. The security 'experts' our illiterate subject has conned include hacker trivia master Winn Schwartau and AntiOnline's JP John Vranesevich (no surprises there), and such publications as PC World, E-BusinessWorld, TechWeek, the Wall Street Journal, and, thanks to my carelessness, The Register as well. The D.I.R.T. on the Trojan The truly inexcusable element of my first story was my failure challenge rigorously Codex's claims regarding the amazing power of its D.I.R.T. Trojan. Had I taken the time to learn that SpyKing/Jones was behind this, I would have immediately suspected that it's a lot more talk than technology. But I ran with the piece out of eagerness to work my own agenda, motivated by personal outrage that anyone would be so irresponsible as to sell a Trojan to law-enforcement and governments as a surveillance device. And the reason for that outrage survives even now; D.I.R.T. unquestionably permits police to upload bogus evidence to a suspect's machine and offers no auditing controls by which they might be caught, which was the focus of my original report. That much hasn't changed; D.I.R.T. is absolutely ripe for abuse without accountability, and Jones is utterly damnable for trying to sell it to governments and police organizations. But I was on very shaky ground in reporting its true capabilities. My subsequent investigation indicates that Codex's claim that D.I.R.T. can defeat all known PC firewalls is, quite simply, false. Furthermore, their claim that the software is completely transparent to the target and cannot be detected by current anti-virus software, is misleading, if not completely false. There is no technology in D.I.R.T. responsible for this sort of stealth; the server isn't detected simply because no anti-virus vendor has as yet added it to their signatures catalog. Defeating D.I.R.T. My suggestions in the
[e-gold-list] Re: UK and other countries banking
The investment is VAT free, however, I am told that the service fee of an intermediatory, such as ourselves is subject to VAT. Therefore in those countries that have BTW/VAT/IVA I have dutifully (not happily) collected it on behalf of the government on my fee ONLY. Point me the way, if you feel that this is in error and I will gladly stop collecting it, it would certainly easey my bookeeping, a heck of a lot This is a very complicated area. But you should be able to find a way around it. I won't even begin to try and advise you on where your place of provision of services is, but you need to figure that out and agree it with your tax authorities as it is important. In some circumstances it will be the place you are at, in other circumstances it will be the place your customers are at. However, in principle you shouldn't have to collect VAT from people who are in business in another EU state (as opposed to consumers). I would imagine many of your customers are buying for business purposes - this definitely includes those wanting to invest in high yield scams etc. Provided you have proof they are in business *even if they do not have a VAT registration* then you can zero rate supplies to these people. Another idea would be to incorporate your business in several different jurisdictions. For example, you could incorporate a UK company to handle UK business. You can turn over up to approx GBP 50,000 per year (your fees that is, not the actual gold) before you have to register for VAT in the UK, and if you're not registered you obviously don't have to collect it... If you look at the VAT on GBP 50,000 this will be a big saving which will much more than cover your legal and book-keeping fees in running another company. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Fw: Re: E-Gold-UK exchange?
I can't see a big problem with accepting personal cheques. You just don't give out the gold until the cheque clears (3 days in UK). There are even ways of clearing cheques instantly if you want to pay extra. If you look at it that way, it's a 100% secure method of payment. I think the problem is more that there are no UK based MMs, therefore most MMs will incur international bank charges and mailing delays etc clearing such cheques. Credit cards on the other hand are a different issue as they carry a VERY substantial fraud risk. offshoresurfer - Original Message - From: Viking Coder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 3:37 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: E-Gold-UK exchange? Dealers do not seem to want to accept GB personal cheques or credit cards It is not just GB personal checks or credit cards that MMs don't want. Most would prefer to not have anything to do with any personal checks or credit cards. Since they run their own business, they can pretty much do whatever they prefer. www.goldnow.st GoldNow accepts credit cards. They charge a 15% fee. The extremely high fee is due to the added hassle and risk of fraud. the most convenient payment methods Also the most convenient to steal, fake, and/or cancel payment on; especially over national borders. Is there not a single MM who is based in the UK? Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: DIRT
is sending to me updates (containing latest bugs in various systems and email software-it's a need for trojan injection) every week Am I correct in understanding from this that if we stick to using web based email, we are safe? offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: E-Gold-UK exchange?
in GB. Whenever I receive a dollar commission cheque I find that most of it is swallowed up by transaction fees. Now, after opening PayPal and e-gold accounts I find that it's a devil of a job funding them. Dealers do not seem to want to accept GB personal cheques or credit cards - the most convenient payment methods. Why not just endorse your dollar cheques to one of the market makers and kill two birds with one stone? Goldchanger, for instance, accepts third party dollar cheques. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fw: Re: E-Gold-UK exchange?
I can't see a big problem with accepting personal cheques. You just don't give out the gold until the cheque clears (3 days in UK). Personal Checks can actually be cancelled, and payment taken back, up to 6 months after it has cleared. Don't know the mechanics of such a transaction, but do know it is possible. Yes that's true, but it applies equally to money orders. I used to run a mail order business and have taken tens of thousands of UK personal checks and I never once had anyone try that. Credit and debit cards, on the other hand, gave us chargeback problems all the time. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: America, no longer the land of the free.
Actually, Julian, in real life there are always criminals and sluggards no matter how harsh the punishments against it or how great the incentives not to be. The US legal system throws criminals in jail. They used to have to work in chain gangs. That was slavery. The free market by itself is not enough to make all men moral. But if you want to believe that it is, have at it. The US legal system throws more people in jail than in any other country of the world, yet the US crime rates are some of the highest too. So harsh punishments don't work. I agree with you that there will always be criminals, no matter what. I don't think what Julian said was anything to do with morality. He was not talking about criminals. He was talking about spongers, by which he meant people who live off of others under a system of government which supports that. People who live off welfare without trying to find work, or who spend their time litigating in frivolous lawsuits. The real criminals would not be nearly such a big problem if law enforcement resources were directed against people who actually cause harm to people or loss of property, rather than harassing harmless citizens going about their business who might want to smoke a joint or enjoy a punt at a virtual casino, for example. Or recklessly causing the deaths at the border of good people who wish to participate in the economy as productive, hard working members of society. But I think most people on this list already know that, so I'll end my dissertation :) offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: America, no longer the land of the free.
As to whether harsh punishments work to deter _real_ crimes, e.g. murder, rape, robbery, have a look at Singapore. Everyone I've ever talked to who has been there says you can feel almost perfectly safe anywhere, any time, provided only that you're not chewing gum or smoking a hoota. Can you really put your blind faith in a government which regulates chewing gum to protect you from robberies, without worrying that they might turn on whatever your pleasure is (posting political opinions about other countries on the internet??) next? If you're happy with that fine. As for me, I would rather take my chances on the streets of Mexico City any day. It doesn't take much intelligence to avoid being mugged, but it's a lot more effort to outwit a hostile government. It's all about freedom, where we started this debate. And we all have the freedom to choose under which system of government we want to conduct our lives. Not through democracy, which is basically a sham, but by basing ourselves - physically or virtually - in the jurisdiction(s) of our choice. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: My E-gold Account had password stolen
Cornucopia Club Suite 309-145 Bryan Bldg., 4537 Casino St., Palanan, Makati, Manila, Philippines, This is a maildrop (www.offshoremaildrop.com), and I heard elsewhere that the maildrop operators themselves have done a disappearing act... offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Keyboard Sniffers et al
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/19404.html Trojan lets cyber-cops plant bogus evidence By Thomas C Greene in Washington Posted: 04/06/2001 at 09:36 GMT A new tool of Fascist control, with which law-enforcement agents can secretly monitor the entire range of a suspect's computer activity, has been developed by self-proclaimed 'computer surveillance experts' Codex Data Systems, according to a document sent to Cryptome.org. The source here is a PowerPoint slide show, presumably by Codex PR bunnies, boasting of D.I.R.T.'s amazing capabilities to violate in secret the last vestiges of civil protections from state oppression. Imagine being able to remotely monitor any PC in the world anytime you want, the company taunts. Suppose you could read every keystroke... Access and retrieve any file from the hard drive without having physical access... No more secrets... The company slide show is carefully crafted to generate maximum suspense among Feds and cops straining to find ways around such regrettable obstacles as civil rights. Thus a series of 'scenarios' guaranteed to get the oppressive juices flowing: Scenario: You want to execute an Electronic No-Knock Search Warrant by stealth via the Internet to allow surreptitious remote seizure of digital evidence. What do you use? Scenario: Your undercover online investigator makes contact with a suspected pedophile in a chat room. Suspect sends illegal image(s). You now have probable cause. You want to remotely monitor suspect and seize additional evidence from his computer. What do you use? Scenario: Your investigation has determined that your suspects are using strong encryption to protect themselves. You need to crack encrypted and/or password protected e-mail and stored files. You don't have the time or money for a Brute Force attack. What do you use? The answer to all the above is, of course, D.I.R.T. And just what is D.I.R.T.? Why it's a Trojan, pure and simple, which the Feds can feed to targets surreptitiously. It has a point-and-drool GUI and so functions very much like SubSeven on steroids. It doesn't crack crypto; it simply logs keystrokes, including, obviously, the user's pass phrase. Crude, but effective. It also defeats all known firewalls, killing the running process, replacing the firewall icon, and allowing a stealth FTP connection. The D.I.R.T. client can be embedded in Word documents, Excel documents, PowerPoint presentations, RTF documents, Word Perfect documents, Autorun.bat on CD-ROMS and floppy disks, and, coming soon in a free upgrade, Lotus Suite, JavaScript and ActiveX. Better yet, D.I.R.T. is user friendly and can be operated by investigators with minimal computer skills, we're told. Most grotesquely, it enables the Feds to plant bogus evidence on a suspect's computer. Sending hidden code to the target PC is simple using the D.I.R.T. 'Bug Generator'. Investigators need not have special computer code writing skills. Just point and click. A true tool of Fascism if ever we heard of one. And get this: the company discusses it with pride. Getting around it Protecting yourself from this diabolical program won't be easy. First, you need to monitor your comp's processes. Anything persistent which you don't recognize/can't explain should result in an immediate re-format with files re-loaded from text-only sources. For *nix, see this document. For Windows, see this one. You should run Netstat regularly to monitor all of your active connections. And again, anything persistent which you don't recognize/can't explain should result in an immediate re-format with files re-loaded from text-only sources. A handy progie which will resolve strange IPs is the free version of the Patrick Project DNS utility. Curious domains can then be traced free and easily via SamSpade.org, which has heaps of useful CGI gateways. 9x corner If all this strikes you as too technical, then you must be running Win9x, and that means you'd better play it as safe as possible. This, we're sorry to say, means re-formatting on a regular basis, like once a month. Annoying and troublesome, we'll allow; but it's the only way for the technically challenged to prevail against D.I.R.T. In order to do this successfully, you should ditch every file you don't need during each re-format. Files you do need must first be saved to removable media in plain text with a non-formatting text editor (e.g., Windows Notepad); and you'll need to change your PGP pass phrase (not your key) each time as well. Now set up your '9x box lean and mean, as if you were a gamer. Go to C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSCONFIG.EXE and make a desktop icon for the progie. Activate it, click on the 'STARTUP' tab, kill everything you don't need and re-boot (do NOT kill EXPLORER or SYSTEM TRAY). This will make it easier to keep track of what you have running, and what you should have running, which you can occasionally check with
[e-gold-list] Re: Open Letter to Douglas Jackson: E-gold Weakness
A hacker (who knew the # of one of my e-gold a/cs) planted a Trojan Horse in my computer that reported my password enabling him/her to raid my account. (He didn't know the a/c #s of any of my other e-gold a/cs, so he/she didn't touch them.) [snip] Horsefeathers. The necessary piece of software is called a keyboard sniffer and it is very easy to install on someone's computer without their knowledge, especially if they don't have a firewall installed. Technical guys on this list know more about it than I do, and I'm sure e-gold are well aware of the problem too. Haven't you ever wondered why online banks don't allow people to send money with just one password? I don't see any problem with people knowing my account number per se, but I agree the e-gold system only offers very basic level security. To get into my main online bank account and send money, I need: 1) A customer login number - not the same as my account number 2) A permanent password 3) A password requested at random from a list of 25 on a card. I would fully support a multi-password system like the above for e-gold. It's pretty simple to use when you get used to it. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Open Letter to Douglas Jackson: E-gold Weakness
This whole discussion about security is filled with basic errors. Everyone is confused, except Viking. Just go to a smart card model, if you want high security. It's already working on metalsavings.com, you can use it every day. I am no expert and don't claim to be. But on the basis that not everyone wants to go out and buy a smart card reader, maybe you could shed some light on how and why we are confused? I quite agree that a secret account number, a log-in name different from the account number, and a second password are the same thing. But it's not worth arguing over what you call it. The question is would it increase security? It is a granted here that we are talking about protection from sophisticated trojans, keyboard sniffers etc. I think most of us on this list know that we should have good passphrases and should not enter them on other sites. That's not what I'm worried about. If someone can convince me that that's my only concern, I will be very happy, but Frederick's story appears to confirm my fears. offshoresurfer --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Western Union QuickPay......
Unfortunately the US government seemed rather scared of this system that allowed people to transfer their money easily into a real free market... Specifically, I attended the Shorex Offshore Conference in Monaco in 1997 when Western Union just launched Quickpay and were keen to promote it to the offshore industry. Later they set up offshore banks (including Paritate Bank, Latvia and Swiss American Bank, Antigua) with Quickpay. Subsequently, both these accounts - and Omnipay's I believe - were cancelled by WU, presumably under pressure from Big Brother. offshoresurfer - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 15 May 2001 21:33 Subject: [e-gold-list] Western Union QuickPay.. Awhile ago E-gold used to allow payments into the system via WU Quickpay, which is international costs like $8.50 and allows people to pay you up to $5,000 within 15 minutes.(WU then deposits the money into your bank account(no fees or percentages taken out), but there aren't any risks like with checks (and even money orders) Anyway, now that there are numerous market makers, none of them offer this. This would be an easy way for people to fund their accounts and the market makers could fund them in like 1/2 hour..provided they were online etc. Have any of you market makers tried to get an account and WU denied you? Have any of you not bothered/tried to offer the quickpay option?? Why not? Thanks. Mike I figure Possibly, western union could be trying to rail against things which might take away the need for their over-priced international wire(gold currencies etc.)? Or the market makers just haven't tried to offer this option --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Business Express
Why don't all you MM guys solve this whole problem by stating on your websites if and when ID will be required? I think you have every right to ask for ID to protect yourselves, but you also have to respect that account holders have every right to make anonymous transactions just like when dealing in cash. If you state on your websites clearly upfront that you will require ID for certain transactions, fine. If you take people's money then ask for ID afterwards of course they will be upset and rightly so. If everyone provides open information then the free market can function efficiently. offshoresurfer - Original Message - From: Eric J. Gaither [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 May 2001 18:24 Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Business Express Norman, I am not sure if your situation has been resolved yet, so please tolerate my unsolicited insight. I personally know Dean Gutch of B.E. Dean is a fair and professional businessman. I highly doubt he would risk his business and reputation over $230.48 (wire transfer). It sounds as if he is simply following good established business practices. Most of us Market Makers have been plagued by a recent scam involving individuals who lurk about on the auctions sites claiming to sell goods. When a buyer wins, the crook then directs them to send the money to one of the MM's. The crook then opens a free e-gold account and free e-mail account under the victim's name. This information is then sent to the MM to fund this e-gold account. When the payment arrives, the details match, the account is funded and the buyer loses his money. It sounds like Business Express was simply asking you to verify your identity: that I must fax them my photo ID. I refused that because of privacy reasons and asked them to return me my money instead of funding my e-gold account. Refusing to validate your identity would also make ME question your motives. I have yet to have a *single* client refuse to provide proper ID to claim a payment. IF you were concerned about your privacy in the first place, I would recommend a currency such as Standard Reserve or OSGold, not e-gold. This due to recent actions by the Secret Service and Postal Inspectors who appear to be very interested in the goings on of e-gold as of late. (A major Market Maker was arrested and computer equipment seized a few months ago. It is my understanding he has not been charged...but his equipment has not been returned.) Please understand that the very nature of our business (exchanging *soft money* for *hard money*) means the onus of knowing the endorser is on our shoulders at ALL TIMES. If you scam Business Express, B.E. has no recourse. E-gold, Ltd. and GSR have publicly stated (as well as in their User Agreeme nts) they will not intervene in such cases with out a court order. I can personally testify to the time and expense involved in obtaining such orders. (My last one took FOUR MONTHS and has cost so far $1878.68 USD) I would have asked you to do the same thing B.E. did. If you buy from Gaithmans, we WILL verify your identity. Period. I have lost several thousands of dollars in the past to people who claimed they were privacy oriented, only to find out they were not the people they claimed to be. My Drill Instructor in Boot Camp always said it best: Gaithman..you piece of worm excrement, I turned my back for 30 seconds and you fall asleep STANDING UP in my formation! Trick me once, shame on you! Trick me twice, and I am a bigger worm turd than you for thinking I could trust you! Get down in the FRONT LEANING REST position and let me see you fall asleep THERE! My point...we (MM's) have relaxed our policies in the past just to find ourselves out $$$. I, personally, do not want to be a big worm turd anymore. I am sure Dean would not either, hence, the request for proper identification for funds. I doubt your bank would let you withdraw $230.48 (wire transfer) without proper ID. Dean's and my company simply ask the same for our protection and that of our clients. I understand your concerns for privacy. I understand your frustrations with the response (or lack of) that you received. Please understand we are at war with criminals, thief's, and ID crooks everyday. We MUST know our endorser. It has become the staple of our existence. By the way, if you will not verify your identity to B.E., how do they know you sent the wire in the first place? I can easily obtain a transaction code, payment history, and a few other pertinent details and convince them I am YOU. Would it be fair for them to turn the funds over to me? Please visit Gaithmans Fraud Prevention page to learn how to protect yourself and your hard earned money in today's crime filled world. If your not careful, you may loose your identity altogether
[e-gold-list] Re: Recent scams/Their ISP refuses
I looked at e-qold.com and it appears to redirect to e-glox.com which is hosted on a different ISP. Someone might like to check that out. See below. Best, offshoresurfer Registrar: whois.networksolutions.com Registrant: furlan,giacomo (EGLOX-DOM) via delle betulle 42 bruino, TO 10090 IT Domain Name: E-GLOX.COM Administrative Contact, Billing Contact: furlan, giacomo (XX80089) [EMAIL PROTECTED] furlan,giacomo via delle betulle 42 bruino, TO 10090 IT 011 9087476 123 123 1234 Technical Contact: WorldNIC Name Host (HOST-ORG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Network Solutions, Inc. 505 Huntmar Park Drive Herndon, VA 20170-5142 1-888-642-9675 Record last updated on 17-Apr-2001. Record expires on 07-Apr-2002. Record created on 07-Apr-2001. Database last updated on 28-Apr-2001 05:47:00 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.SECURE-WEBHOSTING.COM 202.186.13.215 NS2.SECURE-WEBHOSTING.COM 202.186.13.228 - Original Message - From: Frank Zuchristian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 April 2001 20:21 Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Recent scams/Their ISP refuses Their ISP refuses to shut them down. We called them from the Netherlands, the server refuses to shut them down. We are dependent for those in the US, ie e-gold/GSR/Omnipay to do something. I think that as the providor refuses to listen that action should be taken against them. We have forwarded it to the authorities, here in the Netherlands, but obviously, as it is cross border, they cannot react that fast. here is the information: Make an offer to get this domain -- or have it appraised to see its value. Registrant: furlan,giacomo (EQOLD-DOM) via delle betulle 42 bruino, TO 10090 IT Domain Name: E-QOLD.COM Administrative Contact, Billing Contact: furlan, giacomo (XX80089) [EMAIL PROTECTED] furlan,giacomo via delle betulle 42 bruino, TO 10090 IT 011 9087476 123 123 1234 Technical Contact: WorldNIC Name Host (HOST-ORG) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Network Solutions, Inc. 505 Huntmar Park Drive Herndon, VA 20170-5142 1-888-642-9675 Record last updated on 08-Apr-2001. Record expires on 08-Apr-2002. Record created on 08-Apr-2001. Database last updated on 28-Apr-2001 00:17:00 EDT. Domain servers in listed order: NS96.WORLDNIC.COM 216.168.225.236 NS95.WORLDNIC.COM 216.168.225.235 Thanks, EuroGoldLine Admin --- C. Cormier - Ormetal Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 28 Apr 2001, at 13:57, Tristan Petersen wrote: Hello all, I would like to suggest to e-gold that they block the IP address of the scammer running the e-qold site, as they are linking to e-gold's server for all links, pictures, etc. This is a complete waste of resources, ban these idiots at once. Or better yet, put spoof pictures in place when you receive a link from them, with the pictures saying something like scammer site, beware! Excellent suggestion, Tristan. The problem is that GSR is very slow reacting to the situation. This site scam site has been up for weeks. Claude http://www.goldcurrencies.ca http://www.ormetal.com == Claude Cormier Public Key http://www.ormetal.com/PGPkey.html == --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] = What, you don't have an e-gold account? Get it here, FREE http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=139538 Need to manage your e-gold account? Compare our rates. Serving Europe, but available WORLDWIDE! http://www.eurogoldline.nl Want a debit card tied to your e-gold? http://www.cashcards.net/rep/23239 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: KvK Chamber of Commerce
Frank, Thank you for your reply. I was not suggesting for one moment that there was anything amiss with your business, but was actually asking a more general question about licensing for Market Makers in various jurisdictions. In most countries (maybe not the Netherlands?) a license from some financial supervisory authority such as the National Bank is required to operate a currency exchange business exchanging say dollars to guilders, and also to buy and sell gold. I was wondering if the same rules applied to e-gold exchange businesses. As an aside, I do agree that the system you describe in Holland sounds pretty effective - based on what you say, and compared my experiences of it 4 or 5 years ago, it has obviously been tightened up a lot in the last few years. I have personally opened bank accounts in the Netherlands and nobody asked me any questions. If the ISP even checks for compliance with the law, maybe that's going a bit too far... I also concur with Julian Morrison that the system basically demands a caveat emptor approach. E-gold don't have any direct control over MMs, and neither is it desirable that they should have. Just as not every business that exchanges dollars has to be approved by the Federal Reserve. I guess what you say about picture IDs etc applies to MMs listed on the official e-gold site, but I know there are many MMs who are not official. The coconutgold.com site for example states: Coconut Gold Offshore is utterly independent of e-gold®, GSR, and related entities. In fact Coconut is probably THE most independent of the market makers. We have absolutely NOTHING to do with e-gold® / GSR and don't even get stock from them. We are utterly independent. And I know Coconut Gold has a first class reputation. Anyway I think it is great that there is a free market, but in a free market people must be able to make informed decisions. E-gold relies very much on people's trust in the system... I mean how many people really check whether the gold exists at JPMorgan or in Dubai or wherever... and I think it's disappointing from that point of view that they have apparently been slow to react to obvious scams like e-qold and flat rate gold. Best, offshoresurfer - Original Message - From: Frank Zuchristian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 April 2001 09:49 Subject: Re: [e-gold-list] Re: KvK Chamber of Commerce Dear offshore surfer, The Kamer van Koophandel (Chamber of Commerce) in the Netherlands is diferrent than in most countries that I have been in. They are not just a collector of fees and forms (though they do that too). They are in fact proactive, we had to make adjustments to both the paperwork and the site to meet their requirements. Furthermore, you cannot get a tax number (see our about us page) without being registered. The banks, in the Netherland, not only will not open a business account with it, but will delve deeper than that, as they are very concerned about any activity that might damage their reuputations. Our ISP is based in the Netherlands, once again, not only did we have to submit the proper registrations, but also, they view the site for compliance with Dutch law. This cost us many meetings, and elapsed time of about a month before we could legitimately open our doors for business. Though painful, at the time, we AGREE with those policies. We have taken this a step further, by placing their logo and a link to their site (it is also in English) at the top of our entry page. We are not required to do so, nor was it suggested that we do. However, we take our responsibility, in the handling of financial transactions or others very seriously. Our about us page gives you all the details, including telephone numbers, which will be answered by us, or overnight by our computer. We have started a private group at Yahoo, for the benefit of our clients. The first posting includes links, that our clients can use to educate themselves on how to spot a possible scam or fraud operation. When we hear of one we post for the benefit of our clients. We also post virus warnings, e-gold related matters and news regarding our srvices (ie additions, changes, bank holdiays). All new clients are invited to join. E-gold requires documentation of MM's, included in that is a picture ID, and they also view the site before adding a potential MM to the list. I think that you will find, these are isolated incidents, regretable as they are, but that MM's on the whole act responsibly and are cognizant of their responsibilities. The MM's are currently forming an Alliance which, hopefully will address some of these concerns. You must understand, that being spread out all over the world, this is a very difficult task. MM's have also put up monies to try to locate and stop scammers, we want them off the net. Hopefully, this has answered your questions, if not please
[e-gold-list] Re: Flatrategold.
Do e-gold MMs require licensing in the way that regular change offices/cambios do? I seem to remember seeing something about this on the e-gold site a while back... AFAIK the Chamber of Commerce thing is just a company registration which anyone can get just by filling in a few forms? offshoresurfer - Original Message - From: Frank Zuchristian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 27 April 2001 10:36 Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Flatrategold. EuroGoldLine , like many of the other MM's also posts their information plainly on their pages. We take it a step further by providing and independent link to verify with the KvK (Chamber of Commerce) which regulates us. Our providor also requires and checks all of this information. Thank you EuroGoldLine Admin --- Vince Callaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For my own curiosity I did a couple of lookups on flatrate gold. Using the tools that I use to validate users I came up with the following: Domain registration: Administrative Contact: Collins, DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2819-112 Street Suite #304E Edmonton, Alberta T6J 4M3 CA 780-988-9077 The phone number is listed to: I Kutzner 4616 106a St NW 901 Edmonton, AB T6H 5J5 The website is hosted by virtualave.net which is a free hosting site. Anyone can go in and signup, no info required. I did a search in canada and there are no listings for DuPree Collins, but there are about 50 D Collins. In contrast it takes about 2 seconds to get my home address and phone number, plus I list my office address on my website with a map. Draw your own conclusions. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] = What, you don't have an e-gold account? Get it here, FREE http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=139538 Need to manage your e-gold account? Compare our rates. Serving Europe, but available WORLDWIDE! http://www.eurogoldline.nl Check out our other site http://www.AAAloha.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
