Re: [Elecraft] OT KX3 wannabe in photo of Qct QST

[Phil Wheeler]

And you have to wonder how much noise that 
generator produces when receiving.


Phil W7OX

On 9/16/16 7:11 PM, Joe Lynch wrote:

The Honda generator provides the electromagnetic energy to energize the 
MFJ-1788.

 On Friday, September 16, 2016 9:48 PM, Mike Morrow  
wrote:
  


  It looks nothing like an "ancient Yaesu"...because is a Kenwood TS-830S, 
introduced in 1980.  To this day it's one of the best hybrid-design ham transceivers ever 
made.  It has two S2001A (equivalent to 6146B) tubes in the PA for 220 W PEP SSB, 180 W 
CW.  Ham bands (including WARC) only.  Gotta love a rig with PA PLATE and LOAD controls.

Still...what QST editor confused the TS-830S with a KX3, or any other all-solid 
state rig made since 1983?  My guess is some youngster who doesn't know that 
rigs like this with vacuum tubes ever existed. :-)

Mike / KK5F


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Re: [Elecraft] OT KX3 wannabe in photo of Qct QST

[Kevin]

Ditto.

On 9/16/2016 8:46 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:

It looks nothing like an "ancient Yaesu"...because is a Kenwood TS-830S, 
introduced in 1980.  To this day it's one of the best hybrid-design ham transceivers ever 
made.  It has two S2001A (equivalent to 6146B) tubes in the PA for 220 W PEP SSB, 180 W 
CW.  Ham bands (including WARC) only.  Gotta love a rig with PA PLATE and LOAD controls.

Still...what QST editor confused the TS-830S with a KX3, or any other all-solid 
state rig made since 1983?  My guess is some youngster who doesn't know that 
rigs like this with vacuum tubes ever existed. :-)

Mike / KK5F




--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] OT KX3 wannabe in photo of Qct QST

[Joe Lynch]

The Honda generator provides the electromagnetic energy to energize the 
MFJ-1788. 

On Friday, September 16, 2016 9:48 PM, Mike Morrow  
wrote:
 

 It looks nothing like an "ancient Yaesu"...because is a Kenwood TS-830S, 
introduced in 1980.  To this day it's one of the best hybrid-design ham 
transceivers ever made.  It has two S2001A (equivalent to 6146B) tubes in the 
PA for 220 W PEP SSB, 180 W CW.  Ham bands (including WARC) only.  Gotta love a 
rig with PA PLATE and LOAD controls.

Still...what QST editor confused the TS-830S with a KX3, or any other all-solid 
state rig made since 1983?  My guess is some youngster who doesn't know that 
rigs like this with vacuum tubes ever existed. :-)

Mike / KK5F

> ...From the photo it looks like an ancient Yaesu.
> ...
> Joe N9JR

>> Perhaps it was a very early pre-production model, before they had finished 
>> miniaturizing it sufficiently :-)
>> 
>> Dave
>> AA7EE

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Re: [Elecraft] OT KX3 wannabe in photo of Qct QST

[Phil Wheeler]

Good rig ID, Mike. Yes the TS-830S was a fine rig. 
And it looks like his mic is the MC-60A.


You have to wonder about the wisdom of running 
even 100 Watts into the MFJ loop while sitting 
that close to it.


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/16/16 6:46 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:

It looks nothing like an "ancient Yaesu"...because is a Kenwood TS-830S, 
introduced in 1980.  To this day it's one of the best hybrid-design ham transceivers ever 
made.  It has two S2001A (equivalent to 6146B) tubes in the PA for 220 W PEP SSB, 180 W 
CW.  Ham bands (including WARC) only.  Gotta love a rig with PA PLATE and LOAD controls.

Still...what QST editor confused the TS-830S with a KX3, or any other all-solid 
state rig made since 1983?  My guess is some youngster who doesn't know that 
rigs like this with vacuum tubes ever existed. :-)

Mike / KK5F


...From the photo it looks like an ancient Yaesu.
...
Joe N9JR

Perhaps it was a very early pre-production model, before they had finished 
miniaturizing it sufficiently :-)

Dave
AA7EE


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Re: [Elecraft] OT KX3 wannabe in photo of Qct QST

[Mike Morrow]

It looks nothing like an "ancient Yaesu"...because is a Kenwood TS-830S, 
introduced in 1980.  To this day it's one of the best hybrid-design ham 
transceivers ever made.  It has two S2001A (equivalent to 6146B) tubes in the 
PA for 220 W PEP SSB, 180 W CW.  Ham bands (including WARC) only.  Gotta love a 
rig with PA PLATE and LOAD controls.

Still...what QST editor confused the TS-830S with a KX3, or any other all-solid 
state rig made since 1983?  My guess is some youngster who doesn't know that 
rigs like this with vacuum tubes ever existed. :-)

Mike / KK5F

> ...From the photo it looks like an ancient Yaesu.
> ...
> Joe N9JR

>> Perhaps it was a very early pre-production model, before they had finished 
>> miniaturizing it sufficiently :-)
>> 
>> Dave
>> AA7EE

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Consider a baritone against a soprano on the same settings.  I think
> we need to hear from Jim on how they adjust the mixer settings for
> each person, news or music

The way EQ settings are adjusted in a recording studio or FM broadcast
(where one is concerned with 20 Hz to 15 or 20 KHz) has *no bearing* in
*communications* service.  As Jim and others have already pointed out,
Ma Bell learned nearly 90 years ago that 300 Hz to 2700 Hz works just
as well for the baritone (or basso profundo) as the soprano (or even
coloratura).  Even news/talk does minimal vocal equalization leaving
that to the preemphasis/deemphasis built into the transmission system.

When it comes to communications, the fundamental tone of the voice is
not [so] important ... what is important is overtone structure and
that is transmitted better in the 300 - 2700 Hz range than a 100 (or
50) Hz to 2200 Hz range for a baritone/basso profundo as the power
is concentrated in the frequency range critical for intelligibility.

With either the baritone or soprano, the speaking voice has very little
useful *power* above 3 KHz.  In RF systems (and old unequalized phone
circuits), there is more broadband noise than actual voice energy above
3 KHz so a 3 KHz roll-off improves intelligibility and reduces "listing
fatigue".


73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/16/2016 8:27 PM, Mel Farrer wrote:

Joe and all,
Isn't this where the rubber hits the road?  That is while your EQ settings are 
OK  It does not address the audio spectrum generated by the speaker.

Consider a baritone against a soprano on the same settings.  I think we need to 
hear from Jim on how they adjust the mixer settings for each person, news or 
music
Thanks.

Mel, K6KBE


  From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality


EQ settings here:

SSB: -16, -16, -6, 0, 0, +3,  +5,  -6

CW:  -16,  -3,  0, 0, 0, -6, -10, -12

SSB setting are designed to roll off low frequency QRM,
provide some "presence" in the 1200-2800 Hz range essential
for intelligibility and roll off high frequency hiss, noise
and QRM.

Those who like "full range" audio (ESSB QRM generators) will
be appalled at the low frequency cut but it makes a big
improvement in intelligibility in most conditions.  Audio at
100 Hz and below is absolutely not needed for communication.

CW Settings are designed to roll off outside my CW listening
range.  My "pitch" is 460 Hz so I keep 200 - 800 Hz flat and
cut above/below a 600-700 Hz passband.  If one is using a
higher "pitch" it would be worthwhile changing the 1600 Hz
band from -6 to 0.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/16/2016 5:14 PM, Rich wrote:

Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?

Rich

K3RWN


On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:

When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5
speaker to
go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to
the
second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the
FT1000D and
the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I
felt
I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made
him
turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell
which
was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make
changes to
a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The
beauty of
the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the
sound to
personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Don Wilhelm]

I was not going to "chime in" on this thread because that "horse" has 
been thoroughly beat to death in the past.


Let's face it, a small speaker like that used in the K3/K3S is not going 
to produce astounding bass and since it faces upwards away from your 
ears, the high frequency sounds are going to get lost.

I believe it does exceptionally well for its size and quality.

If you want good quality speaker audio from your K3/K3S, you are going 
to have to use external speakers - pick your quality there too.  I use a 
pair of old Radio Shack Optimus speakers that I picked up for cheap at a 
2nd hand store.  The 4 inch drivers sound great with my K3, but being 4 
inch drivers they are not expected to produce 'resounding bass', but 
that is not required for communications.  The internal speaker sounds 
worse by comparison, but is usable if the external speakers are not 
available.


So, if you are comparing the audio between two radios, don't rely on the 
internal speakers.  Connect each one to good quality speakers - that way 
you are comparing the radio's audio, and not the quality of the internal 
speakers.  Some radios produce better quality audio from their internal 
speakers than others - for instance the KX3 internal speaker is far 
inferior to the internal speaker used in the KX2.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/16/2016 8:27 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

Joe and all,
Isn't this where the rubber hits the road?  That is while your EQ settings are 
OK  It does not address the audio spectrum generated by the speaker.

Consider a baritone against a soprano on the same settings.  I think we need to 
hear from Jim on how they adjust the mixer settings for each person, news or 
music
Thanks.




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Re: [Elecraft] OT KX3 wannabe in photo of Qct QST

[Joe Reed]

That was mighty lame.  From the photo it looks like an ancient Yaesu.  Hence 
the need for the Honda generator.  

But hey, he got his 15 minutes of fame, along with unending mockery.  Perhaps a 
bit of grog with his "sustenance"?

What I find more annoying is the ARRL didn't vet the photo first before 
publishing. I thought hams used to work there. Oh well perhaps this is the new 
paradigm for ham radio journalism.

Joe N9JR

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 16, 2016, at 5:53 PM, Dave Richards  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps it was a very early pre-production model, before they had finished 
> miniaturizing it sufficiently :-)
> 
> Dave
> AA7EE
> 
>> On 9/16/2016 12:44 PM, Bob N3MNT wrote:
>> In text for "A Radio by the Barbie" on page 20 of OCT QST the radio is listed
>> as a KX3, however radio in photo is definitely not a KX3.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Joe and all,
Isn't this where the rubber hits the road?  That is while your EQ settings are 
OK  It does not address the audio spectrum generated by the speaker.  

Consider a baritone against a soprano on the same settings.  I think we need to 
hear from Jim on how they adjust the mixer settings for each person, news or 
music
Thanks.  

Mel, K6KBE


  From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality
   

EQ settings here:

SSB: -16, -16, -6, 0, 0, +3,  +5,  -6

CW:  -16,  -3,  0, 0, 0, -6, -10, -12

SSB setting are designed to roll off low frequency QRM,
provide some "presence" in the 1200-2800 Hz range essential
for intelligibility and roll off high frequency hiss, noise
and QRM.

Those who like "full range" audio (ESSB QRM generators) will
be appalled at the low frequency cut but it makes a big
improvement in intelligibility in most conditions.  Audio at
100 Hz and below is absolutely not needed for communication.

CW Settings are designed to roll off outside my CW listening
range.  My "pitch" is 460 Hz so I keep 200 - 800 Hz flat and
cut above/below a 600-700 Hz passband.  If one is using a
higher "pitch" it would be worthwhile changing the 1600 Hz
band from -6 to 0.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

On 9/16/2016 5:14 PM, Rich wrote:
> Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?
>
> Rich
>
> K3RWN
>
>
> On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:
>> When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5
>> speaker to
>> go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
>> sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to
>> the
>> second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the
>> FT1000D and
>> the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I
>> felt
>> I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made
>> him
>> turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
>> point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell
>> which
>> was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make
>> changes to
>> a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The
>> beauty of
>> the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the
>> sound to
>> personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC
>>
>> __
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>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

EQ settings here:

SSB: -16, -16, -6, 0, 0, +3,  +5,  -6

CW:  -16,  -3,  0, 0, 0, -6, -10, -12

SSB setting are designed to roll off low frequency QRM,
provide some "presence" in the 1200-2800 Hz range essential
for intelligibility and roll off high frequency hiss, noise
and QRM.

Those who like "full range" audio (ESSB QRM generators) will
be appalled at the low frequency cut but it makes a big
improvement in intelligibility in most conditions.  Audio at
100 Hz and below is absolutely not needed for communication.

CW Settings are designed to roll off outside my CW listening
range.  My "pitch" is 460 Hz so I keep 200 - 800 Hz flat and
cut above/below a 600-700 Hz passband.  If one is using a
higher "pitch" it would be worthwhile changing the 1600 Hz
band from -6 to 0.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV

On 9/16/2016 5:14 PM, Rich wrote:

Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?

Rich

K3RWN


On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:

When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5
speaker to
go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to
the
second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the
FT1000D and
the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I
felt
I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made
him
turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell
which
was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make
changes to
a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The
beauty of
the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the
sound to
personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jim Brown]

Hi Bill,

One thing we learned many years ago in pro audio is that in general, 
it's a bad idea to use "boost" EQ, especially to boost a lot of bands, 
and to boost them a lot. The reason is "headroom" -- when you're 
boosting a lot, you're more likely to hit digital clip on audio peaks.


I suggest that you subtract 10 dB from each band. The only band where 
you'll change the shape of the curve is the top one. And if you're doing 
the cut in that band to minimize noise internal to the K3, simply 
increase the RF gain a bit (or turn off the ATTEN and reduce the RF gain).


73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,9/16/2016 4:50 PM, Bill wrote:

*

*Menu settings used at W2BLC for armchair copy on 160/75/40 meters:*

*

The following are the settings I am using on 40, 75, 160 for armchair 
copy (meaning very reduced hiss and no ANF warbling). My RX audio goes 
through amplified Behringer studio speakers with bass/treble adjustments.


The speaker adjustments:  bass at 3 o'clock and the treble at 11 o'clock

K3 settings (Config Menu):
AGC DLY - NORM
AGC HLD - 0
AGC PLS - NORM
AGC SLP - 4 to 6 (low setting reduces artifacts from the Automatic 
Notch Filter)

AGC THR - 12
AGC F -   120
AGC S -   20
Shift -  1.25
Width -2.7
RF Gain -90 (sometimes less)
ATT -   ON
RX EQ 1-2
 20
 3+9
 4+12
 5+11
 6+14
 7+7
 8-16


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/16/2016 3:37 PM, Augie "Gus" Hansen wrote:
AM 6 kHz or so eq'd circuit. 


In the OLD days when AM was still the "big dog" and FM was a license to 
lose money, the station I worked for had a telephone link to the 
transmitter equalized to 10 kHz.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Bill]

*

*Menu settings used at W2BLC for armchair copy on 160/75/40 meters:*

*

The following are the settings I am using on 40, 75, 160 for armchair 
copy (meaning very reduced hiss and no ANF warbling). My RX audio goes 
through amplified Behringer studio speakers with bass/treble adjustments.


The speaker adjustments:  bass at 3 o'clock and the treble at 11 o'clock

K3 settings (Config Menu):
AGC DLY - NORM
AGC HLD - 0
AGC PLS - NORM
AGC SLP - 4 to 6 (low setting reduces artifacts from the Automatic 
Notch Filter)

AGC THR - 12
AGC F -   120
AGC S -   20
Shift -  1.25
Width -2.7
RF Gain -90 (sometimes less)
ATT -   ON
RX EQ 1-2
 20
 3+9
 4+12
 5+11
 6+14
 7+7
 8-16

Be sure to read the "Noisy K3" section on http://www.w3fpr.com/ - 
excellent information!


The disclaimer:  Your mileage for the above settings may vary - 
depending upon speaker selection, personal preferences, and your hearing 
acuity.


Note:  I made all of my settings by hand, using the K3 menus. I did NOT 
use K3 EZ as that program will sometimes upset the AGC settings.


Bill W2BLC

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Re: [Elecraft] Regarding K3 12v RCA rear socket - many thanks

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

On Friday, September 16, 2016, Robin Moseley  wrote:

> RCA sockets are designed to grip the centre pin at 4mm inserion..   the
> standard pin length is 8.5mm


Hmm. Then how do you account for

http://www.farnell.com/cad/436556.pdf?_ga=1.267275786.520606856.1474066281

pin 10.1 mm beyond the shell.

http://www.farnell.com/cad/2124889.pdf?_ga=1.29765179.520606856.1474066281

pin 9.6 mm beyond the shell

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/switchcraft-inc/3558-2/SC1136-ND/109664

pin 9.5 mm beyond the shell.

http://www.farnell.com/cad/42767.pdf?_ga=1.258830222.520606856.1474066281

pin 7.0 mm beyond the shell

http://www.farnell.com/cad/302013.pdf?_ga=1.90728094.520606856.1474066281

pin 7.5 mm beyond the shell.

http://www.keyelco.com/product-pdf.cfm?p=3113

pin 6.3 mm beyond the shell.


Standards?  What standards?

I quit having trouble when I started making my own cords with the 10 mm
pins. I use the kind with a wrap around solder connection to the shield
inside the cover. I also use teflon jacketed shielded coax of one size or
another. Very permanent. Very shielded. Never melts when soldering.

Bad cords and connectors are responsible for so much trouble

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Kevin]

I rest my case.

I think if you blindfold someone and tell them their listening to a 
K3(s) they'd come back with the same "it sounds like %$@!" answer even 
if it was another manu's rig they were listening to. It's a self 
sustaining urban legend now.



On 9/16/2016 2:18 PM, Greg wrote:

When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5 speaker to
go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to the
second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the FT1000D and
the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I felt
I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made him
turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell which
was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make changes to
a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The beauty of
the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the sound to
personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC

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--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] OT KX3 wannabe in photo of Qct QST

[Dave Richards]

Perhaps it was a very early pre-production model, before they had 
finished miniaturizing it sufficiently :-)


Dave
AA7EE

On 9/16/2016 12:44 PM, Bob N3MNT wrote:

In text for "A Radio by the Barbie" on page 20 of OCT QST the radio is listed
as a KX3, however radio in photo is definitely not a KX3.


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Control Problem

[Eric J]

Thanks, Don. That fixed it. I remember the KIO2 manual (I think) saying to 
check that after making the Control Board mod, but the mod had been done 10 
years ago (by you. hi), and I guess I decided to follow my nose down a wrong 
turn instead of asking for directions.

This K2 is used mostly for digital modes and the other for CW only. I bought it 
on ebay about 10 years ago and it was such a mess I sent it to you to get it 
working and install all the mods. It's been a flawless performer since then. I 
sent your letter describing what you had to do to it to the ebay seller and he 
sent me a $100 check to compensate me!

Thanks again. I'm relieved that it was something simple. Even more relieved to 
have unprecedented support such as yours.

Eric KE6US

On 9/16/2016 3:22 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Eric,

Yes, you can swap the Control Boards between the 2 K2s for that test.
Just don't get them mixed up and do not change any of the menu or calibration 
settings in the process.
The EEPROM values are for the K2 that it was aligned with!

It may be easier than that - Has this K2 lost its sidetone too?  If so, that is 
the problem (unless your firmware is 2.04r).  Go to the STL menu and tap 
DISPLAY until you hear sidetone - the sidetone source must be U8-4.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/16/2016 5:46 PM, Eric J wrote:
K2 s/n 567 has gone deaf to I/O access. It's current for mods. Everything else 
in the radio seems to work fine. VFOs tune, all switch functions appear to 
work, Port is ON, etc. If I connect it to the EC2-mounted KPA100, operating the 
power output knob causes the Low/High Power LEDs to indicate properly. I'm 
guessing that just means the AUX Bus is working, but my problem is probably 
with RXD.

The KIO2 is OK. I swapped it out with the one in my other K2 s/n 6911 and both 
work fine in that rig.


Both K2's are connected to a PC via separate USB converter cables. The 
converters both work and the special USB-K2 cables work with either K2. They 
have been in almost daily use for several months, and worked fine.

I put a scope on Pin 3 of the KIO2 connector and issued a Get command to read a 
VFO, then traced the resulting characters all the way to MCU pin 26. A Set 
command also could be traced from pin 26 back. Lots more characters were 
generated for Set than for Get, so that all looks OK.

I'm stuck as I don't know anything at all about what's happening from the MCU, 
or how to test it, but it looks like it's getting what it needs from the PC. Is 
it the MCU (v. 2.04) itself that is at fault?

I'm nervous about swapping the control board from s/n 6911 even though the 
older K2 board is current on mods. If it's safe to do, I'll try it.

Any help appreciated. This is the first failure of either K2 so no complaints 
from me.

Eric KE6US


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.


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Re: [Elecraft] Regarding K3 12v RCA rear socket - many thanks

[Robin Moseley]

RCA sockets are designed to grip the centre pin at 4mm inserion..   the 
standard pin length is 8.5mm 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Augie "Gus" Hansen]

Hi Jim,



...
It's all very simple physics. Look at the size of the loudspeaker. Its 
low frequency output is limited by its size as a fraction of a 
wavelength. The K3 and K3S are designed as compact, light weight 
radios. The speaker used is quite good for its size. If you want big 
bass, you need a big loudspeaker (or at least one a lot bigger than 
the little guy in the K3 and K3S).  BUT -- ham radio is NOT about high 
fidelity, it's about COMMUNICATIONS quality sound.


Having the sub receiver doubles my listening pleasure. I use a pair of 
old RS Minimus-7 speakers with my original K3, and am using a pair of 
Jensen Powered Speakers (JPS 45) with my K3S. Getting excellent sound 
from both systems.


Nearly a century ago, Bell Labs learned through a lot of research that 
all it takes for communications is smooth (flat) response between 
about 500 Hz and 3 kHz, and the telephone system was designed around 
that bandwidth.


As a former Bell head (BTL in Denver) working on PBX systems in the 
1970s I was exposed to the training for many telephone products. The 
plain old telephone service, POTS, was designed for a 3000 Hz bandwidth 
(300-3300).


In the 1960s while earning my EE degree I worked in the broadcast 
business. Our main studio to transmitter link was an equalized line, but 
the backup circuit was a POTS line. Fortunately we didn't need to press 
it into service often, but on those occasions it sure sounded crappy by 
comparison to the usual AM 6 kHz or so eq'd circuit. And much more so 
when we added an FM station to the mix.


73,
Gus Hansen
KB0YH

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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Control Problem

[Don Wilhelm]

Eric,

Yes, you can swap the Control Boards between the 2 K2s for that test.
Just don't get them mixed up and do not change any of the menu or 
calibration settings in the process.

The EEPROM values are for the K2 that it was aligned with!

It may be easier than that - Has this K2 lost its sidetone too?  If so, 
that is the problem (unless your firmware is 2.04r).  Go to the STL menu 
and tap DISPLAY until you hear sidetone - the sidetone source must be U8-4.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/16/2016 5:46 PM, Eric J wrote:

K2 s/n 567 has gone deaf to I/O access. It's current for mods. Everything else 
in the radio seems to work fine. VFOs tune, all switch functions appear to 
work, Port is ON, etc. If I connect it to the EC2-mounted KPA100, operating the 
power output knob causes the Low/High Power LEDs to indicate properly. I'm 
guessing that just means the AUX Bus is working, but my problem is probably 
with RXD.

The KIO2 is OK. I swapped it out with the one in my other K2 s/n 6911 and both 
work fine in that rig.


Both K2's are connected to a PC via separate USB converter cables. The 
converters both work and the special USB-K2 cables work with either K2. They 
have been in almost daily use for several months, and worked fine.

I put a scope on Pin 3 of the KIO2 connector and issued a Get command to read a 
VFO, then traced the resulting characters all the way to MCU pin 26. A Set 
command also could be traced from pin 26 back. Lots more characters were 
generated for Set than for Get, so that all looks OK.

I'm stuck as I don't know anything at all about what's happening from the MCU, 
or how to test it, but it looks like it's getting what it needs from the PC. Is 
it the MCU (v. 2.04) itself that is at fault?

I'm nervous about swapping the control board from s/n 6911 even though the 
older K2 board is current on mods. If it's safe to do, I'll try it.

Any help appreciated. This is the first failure of either K2 so no complaints 
from me.

Eric KE6US


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Walter Underwood]

It would still be nice to see some examples.

A while back, a bunch of people posted their TX EQ settings. Some were 
outliers, but a few were very similar. It was clear that about a third of those 
posted had come to pretty much the same settings.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 16, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Mark E. Musick  wrote:
> 
> Remember RX EQ settings are by mode. One for CW and one for SSB.
> Also, has already been mentioned, the settings that suit your taste for
> audio quality may not suit anyone else.
> 
> Mark, WB9CIF
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rich
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:15 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality
> 
> Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?
> 
> Rich
> 
> K3RWN
> 
> 
> On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:
>> When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5 
>> speaker to go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he 
>> thought the K3 sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I 
>> hooked the K3 up to the second input on the SP5 and switched back and 
>> forth between the FT1000D and the K3, making equalizer adjustments to 
>> the K3 as I did so.  Finally I felt I had the K3 sounding like a 
>> FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made him turn around so he could 
>> not see which radio he was listening to...At that point when I 
>> switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell which was 
>> which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make changes 
>> to a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The 
>> beauty of the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and 
>> adjusting the sound to personal taste is only one feature!  73, 
>> Greg-N4CC
>> 
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>> rwnewbo...@comcast.net
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Additional Elecraft talk in November in Southern California

[David Christ]

Pity it isn’t available to those of us in more rural areas.  Wish it could be 
filmed an put on Utube.

David K0LUM   Iowa


> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On Fri,9/16/2016 12:30 PM, David Shoaf wrote:
>> Looking forward to November, we'll also be in Southern California at the
>> SoCal DX Club meeting    November 10th.
>> 
>> The topic is, "Emerging Remote Architectures for Ham Radio".
> 
> I heard David give this excellent talk to the Santa Cruz club a few months 
> ago. Really good, and not "Elecraft centric," not limited to only one kind of 
> remote system, it describes them all.  Highly recommended.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Regarding K3 12v RCA rear socket - many thanks

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

There also is an issue that caused me a lot of grief until I  figured it
out: some pins on RCA plugs are not long enough to contact the tongues on
some RCA jacks. This could be an issue with the shoulders of the jacks or
the shape of the shell of the plug. But the result is that the pin just
barely, barely makes contact with the tongue, which is a recipe for all
kinds of undesired behavior.

I bought a little bag of simple RCA plugs with a longer pin and I now make
all my RCA pinned cords myself. All the ready-made off the shelf cords have
short pins.

73, Guy K2AV

On Friday, September 16, 2016,  wrote:

> To those who replied to my plea...
> Many thanks for your input.
> Delving further into the rig it seems that when you put an RCA plug into
> the socket it bends the centre tab down to complete a circuit and gives the
> 12vhaving checked the volts etc there is 12v (fuse is fine) at the base
> of the RCA but putting a plug in doesn't fully complete the circuit hence
> no volts going out. That is the derivation of  'switched socket' on rear of
> rig
> Looks like some minor surgery (bending of tab) to be performed tomorrow!!!
> Much obliged to all - you know who you are!!
> Thanks, Peter G4URT
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/16/2016 7:20 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

High frequencies propagate in a straight line from a speaker, so a speaker 
facing upward loses 'presence'. Also the K3 speaker is a small speaker in a 
small box. An external speaker, facing the operator, will help a great deal.


This is exactly right.

Someone else wrote:

The reason behind is the artifacts from K3 DSP.


False. ALL audio goes through DSP. If it sounds good on headphones or an 
external speaker, bad sound is NOT the result of DSP -- unless it's been 
badly adjusted, like pushing up the low end or pushing up highs. But 
that's a USER problem, not a problem with the radio.


It's all very simple physics. Look at the size of the loudspeaker. Its 
low frequency output is limited by its size as a fraction of a 
wavelength. The K3 and K3S are designed as compact, light weight radios. 
The speaker used is quite good for its size. If you want big bass, you 
need a big loudspeaker (or at least one a lot bigger than the little guy 
in the K3 and K3S).  BUT -- ham radio is NOT about high fidelity, it's 
about COMMUNICATIONS quality sound. Nearly a century ago, Bell Labs 
learned through a lot of research that all it takes for communications 
is smooth (flat) response between about 500 Hz and 3 kHz, and the 
telephone system was designed around that bandwidth.


Most hams I know use headphones for serious operation, and use the 
speaker only for monitoring while doing something else in the shack, or 
for tuning in digital modes like RTTY, or listening for meteor pings 
with WSJT modes. If you want better sound through a speaker, buy a 
decent front-facing speaker and plug it into the rear panel jack.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] How low (V) can the K3 go?

[Chris Kimball]

Just to complete the picture, I was away from the test for a bit and came
back to find the K3 turned off.  It came right back when a reasonable
voltage was applied.  Very likely, the voltage got too low at one point in
the transmission and sent the internal computer down.  When it's down,
you're done!






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Re: [Elecraft] Additional Elecraft talk in November in Southern California

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/16/2016 12:30 PM, David Shoaf wrote:

Looking forward to November, we'll also be in Southern California at the
SoCal DX Club meeting    November 10th.

The topic is, "Emerging Remote Architectures for Ham Radio".


I heard David give this excellent talk to the Santa Cruz club a few 
months ago. Really good, and not "Elecraft centric," not limited to only 
one kind of remote system, it describes them all.  Highly recommended.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Mark E. Musick]

Remember RX EQ settings are by mode. One for CW and one for SSB.
Also, has already been mentioned, the settings that suit your taste for
audio quality may not suit anyone else.

Mark, WB9CIF

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:15 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?

Rich

K3RWN


On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:
> When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5 
> speaker to go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he 
> thought the K3 sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I 
> hooked the K3 up to the second input on the SP5 and switched back and 
> forth between the FT1000D and the K3, making equalizer adjustments to 
> the K3 as I did so.  Finally I felt I had the K3 sounding like a 
> FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made him turn around so he could 
> not see which radio he was listening to...At that point when I 
> switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell which was 
> which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make changes 
> to a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The 
> beauty of the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and 
> adjusting the sound to personal taste is only one feature!  73, 
> Greg-N4CC
>
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[Elecraft] K2 Control Problem

[Eric J]

K2 s/n 567 has gone deaf to I/O access. It's current for mods. Everything else 
in the radio seems to work fine. VFOs tune, all switch functions appear to 
work, Port is ON, etc. If I connect it to the EC2-mounted KPA100, operating the 
power output knob causes the Low/High Power LEDs to indicate properly. I'm 
guessing that just means the AUX Bus is working, but my problem is probably 
with RXD.

The KIO2 is OK. I swapped it out with the one in my other K2 s/n 6911 and both 
work fine in that rig.


Both K2's are connected to a PC via separate USB converter cables. The 
converters both work and the special USB-K2 cables work with either K2. They 
have been in almost daily use for several months, and worked fine.

I put a scope on Pin 3 of the KIO2 connector and issued a Get command to read a 
VFO, then traced the resulting characters all the way to MCU pin 26. A Set 
command also could be traced from pin 26 back. Lots more characters were 
generated for Set than for Get, so that all looks OK.

I'm stuck as I don't know anything at all about what's happening from the MCU, 
or how to test it, but it looks like it's getting what it needs from the PC. Is 
it the MCU (v. 2.04) itself that is at fault?

I'm nervous about swapping the control board from s/n 6911 even though the 
older K2 board is current on mods. If it's safe to do, I'll try it.

Any help appreciated. This is the first failure of either K2 so no complaints 
from me.

Eric KE6US


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Rich]

Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?

Rich

K3RWN


On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:

When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5 speaker to
go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to the
second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the FT1000D and
the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I felt
I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made him
turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell which
was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make changes to
a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The beauty of
the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the sound to
personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC

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[Elecraft] OT KX3 wannabe in photo of Qct QST

[Bob N3MNT]

In text for "A Radio by the Barbie" on page 20 of OCT QST the radio is listed
as a KX3, however radio in photo is definitely not a KX3.  



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Re: [Elecraft] Additional Elecraft talk in November in Southern California

[David Shoaf]

Looking forward to November, we'll also be in Southern California at the 
SoCal DX Club meeting    November 10th.  

The topic is, "Emerging Remote Architectures for Ham Radio".  

Cheers,

David

- 
David Shoaf 
K3/KX3 International Distributor and Customer Support 
+1-831-763-4211 x121 
KG6IRW 
- 



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Greg]

When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5 speaker to
go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to the
second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the FT1000D and
the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I felt
I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made him
turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell which
was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make changes to
a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The beauty of
the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the sound to
personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC

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[Elecraft] FS: KX3/PX3

[Tim Cook]

Radio and camping is turning out to be not as much fun as I remember so I'm
selling the KX3/PX3 I bought for that purpose.

 

KX3 serial number 76XX (factory assembled)

ATU

Bandpass filter

KXPD3 Paddle

Charger/clock

MH3 Mic

BNC-BP binding post

Manual and power cord

 

PX3 serial 15XX (factory assembled)

Cables

Manual and power cord

 

USB programming cable that works with both the PX3 and KX3

 

 

All in excellent physical condition. Latest firmware in both  

 

The KX3 has one issue (the amp keying transistor is bad), Elecraft says $100
for them to fix it, maybe someone with the skills and equipment can replace
it themselves) All other aspects of the KX3 work perfect. If you don't use
an amp then you'll never know it has the issue.

 

Considering the issue with the KX3 I will sell the entire package for $1295
shipped and insured in the US. PayPal preferred, I pay the fee.

 

Please email direct to n...@woh.rr.com   with any
questions. I prefer to sell as a package, may consider splitting them up if
no one shows interest in the package after a reasonable amount of time

 

Thanks 

Tim

NZ8J

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Edward R Cole]

PS:  I have just gotten new hearing aids that have bluetooth 
capability.  Soon will try using the audio appliance to interface 
with headphone output of the K3, which will eliminate all speakers 
(if it works well).  It works well when used with my iphone, so 
likely will be nice for working weak-signals with the radio (my 
biggest challenge is hearing in white-noise).


But for casual haming with armchair signals the big old ten inch 
National speaker sounds real nice with the K3.

http://www.kl7uw.com/Shack2011_1.jpg  speaker at left side of photo

I use the COMspkr from West Mountain with my KX3 in the shack and 
will use the KX3 mobile with the Sync in my truck.


And note in this 1958 photo of my Novice station the speaker (and 
also the headphones) next to the typewriter!

http://www.kl7uw.com/1958%20HamStation.jpg


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Fred Jensen]

A recurring theme on this list, Alan.  My hearing is sufficiently 
challenged that the only audio my K3 ever produces go into headphones, 
which are hugely improved over the "cans" on the mid-20th Century.  I 
have found that the internal speakers in many of today's transceivers 
leave a lot to be desired.  I find the K3 internal speaker to be in the 
lower part of the "audio quality" spectrum.  That said,


You can lay your headphones on the desk and still copy CW [old RO's 
trick for weak signals in noise].  You will also hear voice and it will 
be intelligible, but it doesn't sound good.  Mark this as one end of the 
quality spectrum


A number of years ago, I inherited a Hallicrafters SX-28 with the bass 
reflex speaker cabinet.  The cabinet is about belt-high, and about 50 cm 
wide and deep [receiver will fit nicely on top].  The speaker is about 
30-35 cm in diameter, and has a very large, strong magnet.  Internally, 
it has a baffle that directs the energy from the rear of the speaker 
back, around, and eventually out the bottom front ... a fairly long 
path.  The SX-28 uses two 6V6's in push-pull for 8 watts undistorted 
audio out.  It sounds fantastic!  Mark that as the other end of the 
quality spectrum.


I formed a theory long ago that speakers are like antennas.  A small 
antenna [relative to wavelength] will radiate, but not well.  Likewise, 
a small speaker will speak, but it does so best at higher frequencies. 
If you want balanced audio, you need apparatus that "radiates" well at 
longer wavelengths.  Electronic equalization can do a lot, but in the 
end, it's the "antenna" that makes the final difference.  My K3 has much 
less empty volume inside that my TS-950 did.  The 950 sounded better. 
My K2 has less empty volume than my K3, and predictably, sounds worse


I forwarded my theory to Stockholm ... just waiting now for the Nobel 
Committee to send me travel instructions.


73,

Fred K6DGW
Sparks NV
Washoe County DM09dn

On 9/16/2016 4:04 AM, Alan. G4GNX wrote:


I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in
speaker. Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my
comments are made as an enquiry based on observed facts.

We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints
that the audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality,
even when signals are 5/9 and virtually no RF noise. I suspect that
part of the reason is that the K3 is setup to someone’s personal
preference, or not really setup at all! We made a comparison last
week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an external speaker
and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse that it
was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was
still superior.

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[Elecraft] Regarding K3 12v RCA rear socket - many thanks

[g4urt]

To those who replied to my plea...
Many thanks for your input.
Delving further into the rig it seems that when you put an RCA plug into the 
socket it bends the centre tab down to complete a circuit and gives the 
12vhaving checked the volts etc there is 12v (fuse is fine) at the base of 
the RCA but putting a plug in doesn't fully complete the circuit hence no volts 
going out. That is the derivation of  'switched socket' on rear of rig
Looks like some minor surgery (bending of tab) to be performed tomorrow!!!
Much obliged to all - you know who you are!!
Thanks, Peter G4URT
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[Elecraft] XG3 version 1.18 Production Firmware Released

[n6hz]

Elecraft XG3 Firmware 1.18 is now available for download using the XG3
Utility.  

Version 1.18 simply fixes a bug that caused the start frequency of a
programmed sweep to increment by the sweep step size on the second sweep. 
(thank you Mark Crouch AC4D for finding it).  No other features were added
at this time. 


73, 

Paul




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[Elecraft] KXPD2 paddle problem

[Converse, Robert]

A few weeks ago there was some discussion regarding the contact posts coming 
loose on the KXPD2 paddles.  I keep experiencing this problem, and can't keep 
the philips screws on the posts tight for long enough to get through a QSO.

I'm reluctant to overtighten the screws or use Loc-tite, and wonder if anyone 
has a fix for this problem.  I would prefer to avoid loss of use of the paddles 
for the two-week round trip time to the factory and back to Maryland.

Bob, WO3E



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 12v RCA rear socket.

[Don Wilhelm]

Peter,

There is no 'setup' for the AUX 12V output - I think yours is broken.
If you want to make some measurements, take a look at the lower right 
corner of RF Board schematic sheet 3.  The RFC and resettable fuse are 
thru-hole components, so troubleshooting should be easy.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/16/2016 12:08 PM, g4...@btinternet.com wrote:

Hi,
I've just hooked up my new hupRF K3 IF buffer to the 12v RCA socket at the rear 
of the K3 expecting to see some volts. The buffer requires 12v at 10ma to drive 
it. Nothing. Zilch. I've perused the instructions and Freds book but cannot see 
if I have to enable this function. Its either that or the socket is defunct. I 
put the K3 together about 4 years but have never had the need to use the 12v 
RCA output before.



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Re: [Elecraft] How low (V) can the K3 go?

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

The manufacturer has clearly, often, repeatedly stated, and keeps posted
their specification that the K3/K3S is designed for 11 to 15 volts.

Optimum THD is at the high end of that range. I have my supplies set at
14.4 VDC for this reason. This is also the bulk charge voltage for my "12"
volt batteries which proves handy at times.

Your operation at nine point something is simply out of bounds. Batteries
with 9 volts in their routine sustainable discharge curve are inappropriate
for the K3/K3S.

Operating any data mode away from the point of best linearity is poor
practice other than for continuation of communication in emergencies. For
normal operation, especially data, if you aren't operating at 14.4 then fix
it so you are. Stay there.

Discharging lead-based batteries below 11 volts will shorten life. Each
time you let batteries drop below 11 volts the length of time decreases
that you can operate below 11 volts following a recharge.

If you are into emergency preparedness, you save the south of 11 volt
operation for actual emergencies where you don't have a choice. Remember
that when you go south of 11 you are using up the battery's useful life.
The manufacturer is telling you that the K3/K3S is not designed for south
of 11.  South of 11 is a foul ball.

Personally I manage the huge T105's in my RV to stay above 11.5 VDC in
camps without power hookup. They are expensive, very heavy, and a real pain
in the *ss to change out.

73, Guy K2AV

On Friday, September 16, 2016, Chris Kimball  wrote:

>
> I'm running a test on my K3 with Olivia 8/500 data mode at 40 W output. The
> duty cycle is 1/3 transmit (4 min) and 2/3 receive.  A "LOW BAT" warning
> and
> beep occur occasionally during transmit, however, the ALC remains at about
> 4
> bars solid, one flickering.  The voltage during receive is more than 11 V,
> but during transmit it drops into the 9.x range sporadically.
>
> The test is into a dummy load and I have no way to judge the signal
> quality.
>
> When, at this power level, should I stop the test?  What's the best
> indication that the voltage is too low for a clean and usable signal?
>
> Chris
> NQ8Z
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] How low (V) can the K3 go?

[Wayne Burdick]

The K3 will actually continue to operate well below 11 V, which is rare for any 
desktop transceiver. It will automatically reduce maximum allowed transmit 
power output, to some degree, based on the supply voltage. This allows use from 
a depleted 12-V car battery, for example. Our objective is to keep you on the 
air even in less-than-ideal conditions.

But as you noted, higher supply voltages result in improved IMD performance. 
Low voltages should only be used when there's no other choice.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Sep 16, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Matt Zilmer  wrote:

> The K3 / K3S is rated to meet its specs with a power source between 11 and 
> 15V.  The problem with operating at low voltages is that the TX IMD 
> increases.  Distortion of any type is one of the enemies of data modes.  
> Well, really, ALL modes.
> 
> I wouldn't operate the K3 / K3S much below 11.5V, personally.  A solution for 
> battery operation when the source voltage is too low is a battery booster 
> such as the N8XJK : 
> http://stores.tgelectronics.org/the-new-n8xjk-boost-regulator/. These devices 
> have a setting to go into an alarm state if the source voltage is too low (I 
> set mine to 10.5V), and you can set the output for up to 15VDC even with a 
> source voltage as low as 9 VDC.  This will all work with a power supply as 
> well.  You may want to beef up your supply cabling if you're seeing such a 
> large voltage drop from source to K3.
> 
> If you're using a battery, read the specs to determine the lowest safe 
> operating voltage.  Running a battery discharging below this minimum voltage 
> will shorten its life (called overdischarge).
> 
> 73!
> 
> matt W6NIA
> 
> 
> On 9/16/2016 8:54 AM, Chris Kimball wrote:
>> I'm running a test on my K3 with Olivia 8/500 data mode at 40 W output. The
>> duty cycle is 1/3 transmit (4 min) and 2/3 receive.  A "LOW BAT" warning and
>> beep occur occasionally during transmit, however, the ALC remains at about 4
>> bars solid, one flickering.  The voltage during receive is more than 11 V,
>> but during transmit it drops into the 9.x range sporadically.
>> 
>> The test is into a dummy load and I have no way to judge the signal quality.
>> 
>> When, at this power level, should I stop the test?  What's the best
>> indication that the voltage is too low for a clean and usable signal?
>> 
>> Chris
>> NQ8Z
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/How-low-V-can-the-K3-go-tp7622535.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
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> 
> -- 
> Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
> www.elecraft.com
> Office: 831-763-4211 x125
> Mobile: 909-730-6552
> [Shiraz]
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

As Kevin notes it's a long-standing complaint. Actually, it goes back to about 
1999 when the first grumbles about the upward-facing speaker on the original 
Elecraft K2 were posted. 

It's especially true in a "live" room where the audio is reflected from various 
surfaces or where a shelf is close to the top of the rig that muffles the 
audio. 

One excellent solution is to fold some stiff paper in a "U" with one surface 
slanted at 45 degrees. Place it on top of the K3 with the open side facing you, 
so the sound bounces off of the paper and toward you. The difference is 
dramatic. You can simply hold any firm flat surface - a book for example - and 
demonstrate the effect. Black paper will blend in and be almost invisible. A 
few bits of tape will hold it in pace. 

A little more "techie" solution is to add an Elecraft SP3 loudspeaker to your 
setup. It's larger, forward-facing speaker is a significant improvement and the 
cabinet matches the K3 so it can sit alongside or anywhere convenient. 

73, Ron AC7AC



On 9/16/2016 6:04 AM, Alan. G4GNX wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
> Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
> enquiry based on observed facts.
>
> We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints that the 
> audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality, even when signals 
> are 5/9 and virtually no RF noise.
> I suspect that part of the reason is that the K3 is setup to someone’s 
> personal preference, or not really setup at all!
> We made a comparison last week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an 
> external speaker and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse 
> that it was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was 
> still superior.
>
> I have never really had an issue with audio on my personal K3, but then I’m 
> into clear communication and over the years I’ve trained my ears to listen in 
> the noise and pick out voices, whilst ignoring the mush, much the same as in 
> a crowded room when attempting a conversation with one or two individuals.
>
> I do know what good hi-fi sound is but do not necessarily look for that in a 
> communications device, so are some members being over-pedantic?
>
> Another Radio Ham reported that he had by accident parked his new K3S under a 
> shelf which ‘threw’ the sound forward and he found that it was greatly 
> enhanced. I wonder if fitting some sort of hood, in keeping with the K3’s 
> style, would be worth trying, or maybe replacing the internal speaker with a 
> better device. I don’t really want to start campaigning to purchase an 
> external speaker for the K3 because it’s another ‘lump’ that needs to be 
> carted around to club meetings and events.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
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AC0H
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SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Richard Fjeld]

I usually use a Yamaha CM500 headset which I like very much.

For an external speaker, early into the hobby I made a nice walnut frame 
with grill cloth to house an old speaker from a Muntz TV, if you 
remember those. It became a keepsake.

Dick, n0ce


On 9/16/2016 8:49 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
> I have yet to use any internal SS radio's speaker except for an occasional 
> test or possibly a portable set-up.
> They may as well leave it out as far as I'm concerned.  NONE of them come 
> anywhere close to the sound quality I get from simple outboard speakers.
> (Note, this does NOT include the over-priced, cheap speaker in a metal box 
> often sold as a matching "accessory" by the big-three.)
> Personally, I find the recovered audio from my K3s, feeding two little 
> computer speakers to be the best of any modern radio I have ever used.
> That said, it's hard to beat the audio from an old boatanchor radio with 
> push-pull 6V6's driving a big 12" speaker cabinet.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] How low (V) can the K3 go?

[Matt Zilmer]

The K3 / K3S is rated to meet its specs with a power source between 11 
and 15V.  The problem with operating at low voltages is that the TX IMD 
increases.  Distortion of any type is one of the enemies of data modes.  
Well, really, ALL modes.


I wouldn't operate the K3 / K3S much below 11.5V, personally.  A 
solution for battery operation when the source voltage is too low is a 
battery booster such as the N8XJK : 
http://stores.tgelectronics.org/the-new-n8xjk-boost-regulator/. These 
devices have a setting to go into an alarm state if the source voltage 
is too low (I set mine to 10.5V), and you can set the output for up to 
15VDC even with a source voltage as low as 9 VDC.  This will all work 
with a power supply as well.  You may want to beef up your supply 
cabling if you're seeing such a large voltage drop from source to K3.


If you're using a battery, read the specs to determine the lowest safe 
operating voltage.  Running a battery discharging below this minimum 
voltage will shorten its life (called overdischarge).


73!

matt W6NIA


On 9/16/2016 8:54 AM, Chris Kimball wrote:

I'm running a test on my K3 with Olivia 8/500 data mode at 40 W output. The
duty cycle is 1/3 transmit (4 min) and 2/3 receive.  A "LOW BAT" warning and
beep occur occasionally during transmit, however, the ALC remains at about 4
bars solid, one flickering.  The voltage during receive is more than 11 V,
but during transmit it drops into the 9.x range sporadically.

The test is into a dummy load and I have no way to judge the signal quality.

When, at this power level, should I stop the test?  What's the best
indication that the voltage is too low for a clean and usable signal?

Chris
NQ8Z



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Mobile: 909-730-6552
[Shiraz]

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[Elecraft] K3 12v RCA rear socket.

[g4urt]

Hi,
I've just hooked up my new hupRF K3 IF buffer to the 12v RCA socket at the rear 
of the K3 expecting to see some volts. The buffer requires 12v at 10ma to drive 
it. Nothing. Zilch. I've perused the instructions and Freds book but cannot see 
if I have to enable this function. Its either that or the socket is defunct. I 
put the K3 together about 4 years but have never had the need to use the 12v 
RCA output before.
Anyone out there got a clue of what could have gone wrong? Apart from this all 
is working well with the rig.
Cheers, Peter G4URT
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Matthew Lawson]

My K3 has had weak audio on the external speaker, have to crank volume knob
up almost all the way up. Seems like there is no amplification. Need to
check into it.

*Matthew Lawson*
*KC7EQO*
*442.100 + 100 Hz PL Blyn Mt Repeater*


*http://www.qrz.com/db/KC7EQO/R *


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 8:35 AM, Nate Bargmann  wrote:

> * On 2016 16 Sep 09:17 -0500, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
> > High frequencies propagate in a straight line from a speaker, so a
> > speaker facing upward loses 'presence'. Also the K3 speaker is a small
> > speaker in a small box. An external speaker, facing the operator, will
> > help a great deal.
>
> I don't use the internal speaker on the K3 as it sits under a shelf and
> with the radio sloping rearward, that is probably a recipe in
> frustration.  I have a pair of Radio Shack Minimus 3.5 speakers (now
> probably getting close to 25 years old and not amplified) connected to
> the K3 and facing me positioned on either side and to the rear of the
> computer monitor that sits on the shelf directly above the K3.  The
> audio is pleasant to me with the K3's volume control rarely advanced
> above the 9:30 or so position.
>
> 73, Nate, N0NB
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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[Elecraft] How low (V) can the K3 go?

[Chris Kimball]

I'm running a test on my K3 with Olivia 8/500 data mode at 40 W output. The
duty cycle is 1/3 transmit (4 min) and 2/3 receive.  A "LOW BAT" warning and
beep occur occasionally during transmit, however, the ALC remains at about 4
bars solid, one flickering.  The voltage during receive is more than 11 V,
but during transmit it drops into the 9.x range sporadically. 

The test is into a dummy load and I have no way to judge the signal quality.

When, at this power level, should I stop the test?  What's the best
indication that the voltage is too low for a clean and usable signal?

Chris
NQ8Z



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2016 16 Sep 09:17 -0500, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
> High frequencies propagate in a straight line from a speaker, so a
> speaker facing upward loses 'presence'. Also the K3 speaker is a small
> speaker in a small box. An external speaker, facing the operator, will
> help a great deal.

I don't use the internal speaker on the K3 as it sits under a shelf and
with the radio sloping rearward, that is probably a recipe in
frustration.  I have a pair of Radio Shack Minimus 3.5 speakers (now
probably getting close to 25 years old and not amplified) connected to
the K3 and facing me positioned on either side and to the rear of the
computer monitor that sits on the shelf directly above the K3.  The
audio is pleasant to me with the K3's volume control rarely advanced
above the 9:30 or so position.

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[David Cutter]

I stand a stiff cardboard box (for my Kent paddle) behind the speaker and 
that throws the sound toward me. The K3 speaker in an external box would be 
very good. I have Pyle battery powered speakers which are also excellent and 
very small as advised on the list some while ago.

David
G3UNA


High frequencies propagate in a straight line from a speaker, so a speaker 
facing upward loses 'presence'. Also the K3 speaker is a small speaker in 
a small box. An external speaker, facing the operator, will help a great 
deal.


Vic 4X6GP 


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[Elecraft] New member intro

[k...@gmx.com]

Hi,
Thank you for allowing me to join this listserv list.

I'm about midway toward building KPA500 kit.  Goal is to use it for NVIS 
comms.
Yaesu 1200 --- KPA-500 --- MFJ915 Line Isolator --- MFJ998R Rmt 
Autotuner --- MFJ915 Balun --- Ladder Line --- Random Length Dipole with 
LadderLoc at 32 ft.  This arrangement works great "barefoot," and I look 
forward to incorporating the KPA-500. My worst SWR on any frequency is 
1.3; and it's at 12M (which I won't need anyway).


Building the KPA-500 is interesting and gives me great respect and 
admiration for the micro-surgery professions. Glad I have a good 
magnifying glass handy. I highly recommend that all medical students who 
intend to pursue vascular or neuro-surgery be required to build a 
KPA-500 as a prerequisite.  :)


Thanks, for all your hard work, and I hope to become useful to this 
listserv list.


Jack
K5AJ
Windcrest, TX






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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Vic Rosenthal]

High frequencies propagate in a straight line from a speaker, so a speaker 
facing upward loses 'presence'. Also the K3 speaker is a small speaker in a 
small box. An external speaker, facing the operator, will help a great deal.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 16 Sep 2016, at 14:04, Alan. G4GNX  wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> 
> I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
> Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
> enquiry based on observed facts.
> 
> We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints that the 
> audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality, even when signals 
> are 5/9 and virtually no RF noise.
> I suspect that part of the reason is that the K3 is setup to someone’s 
> personal preference, or not really setup at all!
> We made a comparison last week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an 
> external speaker and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse 
> that it was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was 
> still superior.
> 
> I have never really had an issue with audio on my personal K3, but then I’m 
> into clear communication and over the years I’ve trained my ears to listen in 
> the noise and pick out voices, whilst ignoring the mush, much the same as in 
> a crowded room when attempting a conversation with one or two individuals.
> 
> I do know what good hi-fi sound is but do not necessarily look for that in a 
> communications device, so are some members being over-pedantic?
> 
> Another Radio Ham reported that he had by accident parked his new K3S under a 
> shelf which ‘threw’ the sound forward and he found that it was greatly 
> enhanced. I wonder if fitting some sort of hood, in keeping with the K3’s 
> style, would be worth trying, or maybe replacing the internal speaker with a 
> better device. I don’t really want to start campaigning to purchase an 
> external speaker for the K3 because it’s another ‘lump’ that needs to be 
> carted around to club meetings and events.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Alan. G4GNX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

I have yet to use any internal SS radio's speaker except for an occasional test 
or possibly a portable set-up.  
They may as well leave it out as far as I'm concerned.  NONE of them come 
anywhere close to the sound quality I get from simple outboard speakers.
(Note, this does NOT include the over-priced, cheap speaker in a metal box 
often sold as a matching "accessory" by the big-three.)
Personally, I find the recovered audio from my K3s, feeding two little computer 
speakers to be the best of any modern radio I have ever used.
That said, it's hard to beat the audio from an old boatanchor radio with 
push-pull 6V6's driving a big 12" speaker cabinet.

73, Charlie k3ICH



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry 
Moore
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:16 AM
To: 'Kevin' ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

In my case the issue was low frequency harmonics in the case/assembly causing 
the audio to distort. Removing the speaker from the case resulted in very 
excellent audio from the built in speaker. I re-installed it and use an 
external speaker now (on the rare occasion I need/want external sound). 
It's largely a non-issue as I was surprised to find I operate most often with 
headphones so I can hear better.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Bill]

First - my K3 never leaves my desk. Hence, no issues with external speakers.

It took me several months of adjusting the EQ and AGC (many settings 
available to the user to suit their desires) to get the sound I desired 
from my Behringer MS40 speakers. Armchair surround copy! Best sounding 
rig I ever had - and up until about ten years ago, I had nearly all of 
them since the 60s.


The beauty of the K3 being the availability of the many menu settings to 
adjust the rig to whatever you want.


Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jerry Moore]

In my case the issue was low frequency harmonics in the case/assembly causing 
the audio to distort. Removing the speaker from the case resulted in very 
excellent audio from the built in speaker. I re-installed it and use an 
external speaker now (on the rare occasion I need/want external sound). 
It's largely a non-issue as I was surprised to find I operate most often with 
headphones so I can hear better.


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:57 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

This has been a complaint for the last nine years and 99% of the time the fault 
lies between the chair and the radio. Did anybody do a proper audio setup on 
the rig when it arrived or did it just get tossed on the desk and turned on? 
You need to go to W3FPR's website and take a look at the audio settings Don 
worked up on the original K3.

The K3(s) is a highly configurable radio.

To be fair stick an outboard speaker on the K3 and tweek the audio settings. 
Then again some people don't want to mess with radio settings. 
The "appliance operators" expect perfect this and perfect that and don't want 
to lift a finger to get it.


On 9/16/2016 6:04 AM, Alan. G4GNX wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
> Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
> enquiry based on observed facts.
>
> We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints that the 
> audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality, even when signals 
> are 5/9 and virtually no RF noise.
> I suspect that part of the reason is that the K3 is setup to someone’s 
> personal preference, or not really setup at all!
> We made a comparison last week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an 
> external speaker and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse 
> that it was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was 
> still superior.
>
> I have never really had an issue with audio on my personal K3, but then I’m 
> into clear communication and over the years I’ve trained my ears to listen in 
> the noise and pick out voices, whilst ignoring the mush, much the same as in 
> a crowded room when attempting a conversation with one or two individuals.
>
> I do know what good hi-fi sound is but do not necessarily look for that in a 
> communications device, so are some members being over-pedantic?
>
> Another Radio Ham reported that he had by accident parked his new K3S under a 
> shelf which ‘threw’ the sound forward and he found that it was greatly 
> enhanced. I wonder if fitting some sort of hood, in keeping with the K3’s 
> style, would be worth trying, or maybe replacing the internal speaker with a 
> better device. I don’t really want to start campaigning to purchase an 
> external speaker for the K3 because it’s another ‘lump’ that needs to be 
> carted around to club meetings and events.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
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--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2016 16 Sep 07:33 -0500, Johnny Siu via Elecraft wrote:
> My comments are restricted to voice mode.  Alan's comments are related
> to comparison with Icom DSP radios.  K3's audio in voice mode (no
> matter how you set / adjust the RX EQ) is far inferior than Icom.

I don't own an Icom and likely never will so I can't compare.  I do have
some Yaesu radios and a Kenwood TS-520 to compare and coming back to the
K3 is relaxing to me.

> The reason behind is the artifacts from K3 DSP.  I am of the opinion
> that the audio (not internal speaker) from KX3 is more comparable to
> Icom.

Is this with the later DSP board or the original?  My K3 came with the
later version DSP and I don't notice artifacts nor is the K3 audio
"tiring".

> While I am not young and over 50, I can still hear up to
> 12KHz.  Perhaps, this is the reason why I am very sensitive to DSP
> artifacts.

I'm very similar but one thing I did right away is to set the RX EQ to
roll off all frequencies above 4 kHz or so as much as possible for SSB
(for CW my settings are even more aggressive).  I don't use the K3 for
AM broadcast listening so anything above those frequencies is useless
for SSB audio and attenuated to the greatest extent possible.  It's also
likely that I would have no idea of what artifacts would sound like
either.  ;-)

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jerry Moore]

I went round and round with my K3S sound to no avail. I finally realized 2 
important facts.
1. When operating I wear headphones.
2. If I want speaker sound it's better to have it directed towards me.

So for using the built in speaker a hood or reflector may work, however, I've 
personally found a separate external speaker gives the best possible sound 
(especially after the built in EQ is adjusted for the mode I'm working).
Just my 2c

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Alan. 
G4GNX
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:04 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

Hi all.

I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
enquiry based on observed facts.

We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints that the 
audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality, even when signals are 
5/9 and virtually no RF noise.
I suspect that part of the reason is that the K3 is setup to someone’s personal 
preference, or not really setup at all!
We made a comparison last week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an 
external speaker and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse 
that it was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was still 
superior.

I have never really had an issue with audio on my personal K3, but then I’m 
into clear communication and over the years I’ve trained my ears to listen in 
the noise and pick out voices, whilst ignoring the mush, much the same as in a 
crowded room when attempting a conversation with one or two individuals.

I do know what good hi-fi sound is but do not necessarily look for that in a 
communications device, so are some members being over-pedantic?

Another Radio Ham reported that he had by accident parked his new K3S under a 
shelf which ‘threw’ the sound forward and he found that it was greatly 
enhanced. I wonder if fitting some sort of hood, in keeping with the K3’s 
style, would be worth trying, or maybe replacing the internal speaker with a 
better device. I don’t really want to start campaigning to purchase an external 
speaker for the K3 because it’s another ‘lump’ that needs to be carted around 
to club meetings and events.

Thoughts?

73,

Alan. G4GNX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Edward R Cole]

I only listened to the internal K3 speaker for a few days when it was 
brand new...sounded harsh.  Use of headphones K3 sounds great and 
have been using a ten-inch National Speaker built in the 1950's since 
then whose ambience I really appreciate.


I never haul my K3 out to portable locations so quite happen in the 
shack in this configuration.  Just as in Hi Fi preferences, its 
personal taste.  If you don't care for the sound of the small 
internal speaker hook something else up.



73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Clay Autery]

I would be interested to see the testing procedure and results that confirm 
your statement RE: DSP artifacts.

Not sure why you would be concerned about audio anywhere near 12 kHz.


Sent from my cell phone... pardon the likely typos!  ;)

 Original message 
From: Johnny Siu via Elecraft  
Date:09/16/2016  07:29  (GMT-06:00) 
To: Kevin ,elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality 

I must say that I respectfully disagree '99% of the time the fault lies between 
the chair and the radio'.
My comments are restricted to voice mode.  Alan's comments are related to 
comparison with Icom DSP radios.  K3's audio in voice mode (no matter how you 
set / adjust the RX EQ) is far inferior than Icom.
The reason behind is the artifacts from K3 DSP.  I am of the opinion that the 
audio (not internal speaker) from KX3 is more comparable to Icom.
While I am not young and over 50, I can still hear up to 12KHz.  Perhaps, this 
is the reason why I am very sensitive to DSP artifacts.
73
Johnny VR2XMC

  寄件人︰ Kevin 
收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
傳送日期︰ 2016年09月16日 (週五) 7:57 PM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality
   
This has been a complaint for the last nine years and 99% of the time 
the fault lies between the chair and the radio. Did anybody do a proper 
audio setup on the rig when it arrived or did it just get tossed on the 
desk and turned on? You need to go to W3FPR's website and take a look at 
the audio settings Don worked up on the original K3.

The K3(s) is a highly configurable radio.

To be fair stick an outboard speaker on the K3 and tweek the audio 
settings. Then again some people don't want to mess with radio settings. 
The "appliance operators" expect perfect this and perfect that and don't 
want to lift a finger to get it.


On 9/16/2016 6:04 AM, Alan. G4GNX wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
> Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
> enquiry based on observed facts.
>
> We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints that the 
> audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality, even when signals 
> are 5/9 and virtually no RF noise. I suspect that part of the reason is that 
> the K3 is setup to someone’s personal preference, or not really setup at all!
> We made a comparison last week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an 
> external speaker and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse 
> that it was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was 
> still superior.
>
> I have never really had an issue with audio on my personal K3, but then I’m 
> into clear communication and over the years I’ve trained my ears to listen in 
> the noise and pick out voices, whilst ignoring the mush, much the same as in 
> a crowded room when attempting a conversation with one or two individuals.
>
> I do know what good hi-fi sound is but do not necessarily look for that in a 
> communications device, so are some members being over-pedantic?
>
> Another Radio Ham reported that he had by accident parked his new K3S under a 
> shelf which ‘threw’ the sound forward and he found that it was greatly 
> enhanced. I wonder if fitting some sort of hood, in keeping with the K3’s 
> style, would be worth trying, or maybe replacing the internal speaker with a 
> better device. I don’t really want to start campaigning to purchase an 
> external speaker for the K3 because it’s another ‘lump’ that needs to be 
> carted around to club meetings and events.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX

   
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[Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Johnny Siu via Elecraft]

I must say that I respectfully disagree '99% of the time the fault lies between 
the chair and the radio'.
My comments are restricted to voice mode.  Alan's comments are related to 
comparison with Icom DSP radios.  K3's audio in voice mode (no matter how you 
set / adjust the RX EQ) is far inferior than Icom.
The reason behind is the artifacts from K3 DSP.  I am of the opinion that the 
audio (not internal speaker) from KX3 is more comparable to Icom.
While I am not young and over 50, I can still hear up to 12KHz.  Perhaps, this 
is the reason why I am very sensitive to DSP artifacts.
73
Johnny VR2XMC

  寄件人︰ Kevin 
 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 傳送日期︰ 2016年09月16日 (週五) 7:57 PM
 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality
   
This has been a complaint for the last nine years and 99% of the time 
the fault lies between the chair and the radio. Did anybody do a proper 
audio setup on the rig when it arrived or did it just get tossed on the 
desk and turned on? You need to go to W3FPR's website and take a look at 
the audio settings Don worked up on the original K3.

The K3(s) is a highly configurable radio.

To be fair stick an outboard speaker on the K3 and tweek the audio 
settings. Then again some people don't want to mess with radio settings. 
The "appliance operators" expect perfect this and perfect that and don't 
want to lift a finger to get it.


On 9/16/2016 6:04 AM, Alan. G4GNX wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
> Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
> enquiry based on observed facts.
>
> We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints that the 
> audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality, even when signals 
> are 5/9 and virtually no RF noise. I suspect that part of the reason is that 
> the K3 is setup to someone’s personal preference, or not really setup at all!
> We made a comparison last week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an 
> external speaker and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse 
> that it was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was 
> still superior.
>
> I have never really had an issue with audio on my personal K3, but then I’m 
> into clear communication and over the years I’ve trained my ears to listen in 
> the noise and pick out voices, whilst ignoring the mush, much the same as in 
> a crowded room when attempting a conversation with one or two individuals.
>
> I do know what good hi-fi sound is but do not necessarily look for that in a 
> communications device, so are some members being over-pedantic?
>
> Another Radio Ham reported that he had by accident parked his new K3S under a 
> shelf which ‘threw’ the sound forward and he found that it was greatly 
> enhanced. I wonder if fitting some sort of hood, in keeping with the K3’s 
> style, would be worth trying, or maybe replacing the internal speaker with a 
> better device. I don’t really want to start campaigning to purchase an 
> external speaker for the K3 because it’s another ‘lump’ that needs to be 
> carted around to club meetings and events.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX

   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[ac5p]

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Don Wilhelm]

Alan,

Have you considered replacing the speaker in that K3?

On 9/16/2016 7:04 AM, Alan. G4GNX wrote:

Hi all.

I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
enquiry based on observed facts.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Kevin]

This has been a complaint for the last nine years and 99% of the time 
the fault lies between the chair and the radio. Did anybody do a proper 
audio setup on the rig when it arrived or did it just get tossed on the 
desk and turned on? You need to go to W3FPR's website and take a look at 
the audio settings Don worked up on the original K3.


The K3(s) is a highly configurable radio.

To be fair stick an outboard speaker on the K3 and tweek the audio 
settings. Then again some people don't want to mess with radio settings. 
The "appliance operators" expect perfect this and perfect that and don't 
want to lift a finger to get it.



On 9/16/2016 6:04 AM, Alan. G4GNX wrote:

Hi all.

I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
enquiry based on observed facts.

We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints that the 
audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality, even when signals are 
5/9 and virtually no RF noise.
I suspect that part of the reason is that the K3 is setup to someone’s personal 
preference, or not really setup at all!
We made a comparison last week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an 
external speaker and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse 
that it was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was still 
superior.

I have never really had an issue with audio on my personal K3, but then I’m 
into clear communication and over the years I’ve trained my ears to listen in 
the noise and pick out voices, whilst ignoring the mush, much the same as in a 
crowded room when attempting a conversation with one or two individuals.

I do know what good hi-fi sound is but do not necessarily look for that in a 
communications device, so are some members being over-pedantic?

Another Radio Ham reported that he had by accident parked his new K3S under a 
shelf which ‘threw’ the sound forward and he found that it was greatly 
enhanced. I wonder if fitting some sort of hood, in keeping with the K3’s 
style, would be worth trying, or maybe replacing the internal speaker with a 
better device. I don’t really want to start campaigning to purchase an external 
speaker for the K3 because it’s another ‘lump’ that needs to be carted around 
to club meetings and events.

Thoughts?

73,

Alan. G4GNX
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--
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AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
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NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Bill]

Check out the RX EQ settings. You can do a lot with them.

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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[Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Alan. G4GNX]

Hi all.

I wonder if I can get some feedback about K3 audio from the built in speaker. 
Please note that this is not a K3 bashing session, my comments are made as an 
enquiry based on observed facts.

We have a K3 at the local Ham Radio club and we often get complaints that the 
audio from the internal speaker is not very good quality, even when signals are 
5/9 and virtually no RF noise.
I suspect that part of the reason is that the K3 is setup to someone’s personal 
preference, or not really setup at all!
We made a comparison last week against a new Icom IC7300 which  also had an 
external speaker and the IC7300 ‘won’ hands down. At first I made an excuse 
that it was the external speaker, but we unplugged it and the IC7300 was still 
superior.

I have never really had an issue with audio on my personal K3, but then I’m 
into clear communication and over the years I’ve trained my ears to listen in 
the noise and pick out voices, whilst ignoring the mush, much the same as in a 
crowded room when attempting a conversation with one or two individuals.

I do know what good hi-fi sound is but do not necessarily look for that in a 
communications device, so are some members being over-pedantic?

Another Radio Ham reported that he had by accident parked his new K3S under a 
shelf which ‘threw’ the sound forward and he found that it was greatly 
enhanced. I wonder if fitting some sort of hood, in keeping with the K3’s 
style, would be worth trying, or maybe replacing the internal speaker with a 
better device. I don’t really want to start campaigning to purchase an external 
speaker for the K3 because it’s another ‘lump’ that needs to be carted around 
to club meetings and events.

Thoughts?

73,

Alan. G4GNX
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