Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Jim Brown]

On 8/31/2017 3:26 PM, Jim McDonald wrote:

I have an APC SmartUPS 700, which I bought many years ago from
http://www.refurbups.com/.  The manual says it's certified as Class B.


Thanks Jim. I looked at a half-dozen APC UPS units advertised on that 
site about 2 weeks ago, and studied their specs on the APC website. All 
were Class A. Things change, of course, and I only checked those few units.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] KX2, spy radio

[Mike Morrow]

Chas wrote:

> SSB would have been the equivalent of encryption.

Not even remotely so...SSB technology goes back decades before WWII.

From Wikipedia:

"The first U.S. patent for SSB modulation was applied for on December 1, 1915 
by John Renshaw Carson. The U.S. Navy experimented with SSB over its radio 
circuits before World War I.  SSB first entered commercial service on January 
7, 1927 on the longwave transatlantic public radiotelephone circuit between New 
York and London."

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2, spy radio

[Mike Morrow]

Here's a 1970-era small western world 'clandestine' set called the AVCO 
TAR-224A:

  http://www.cryptomuseum.com/spy/tar224/

It's about three times the bulk of the KX3, which is very small for the era and 
not too large even by today's standards.  It puts out 20 watts A1 or A3 from 2 
to 24 MHz, and is all solid state with auto antenna tuner and Morse key built 
onto the front panel.  (Sounds familiar.)  This 47-year-old set will typically 
cost today more than a new full-house KX3 if you find one for sale!  I have 
one...it's the provenance that attracts.  Technically speaking, only its 
suitability for use in unfavorable environmental conditions gives it any 
advantage over a KX3.

Mike / KK5F

-Original Message-
>From: Stephen Peterson 
>Sent: Aug 31, 2017 8:33 PM
>
>Imagine what the WWII resistance/spies would have given for a KX2!  Fun and
>interesting to look at the equipment they were using.

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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Phil Kane]

On 8/31/2017 10:46 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> What I did as part of my ISP was to remove the batteries from my UPSes
> and replace 7 or 12Ah batteries with 100Ah batteries outside the case.
> 
> That didn't get me to the 10 hours for maximum battery life, but it got
> me to 8 hours.
> 
> Jim's suggestion also lets you size the battery to run all the gear for
> more than a few minutes.

I have 2 APC UPS devices - I moved one's 7 AH battery to an external
container where I have three of them in parallel.  That UPS runs the
cable modem, router, and cordless phone system.   The other one runs my
desktop computer and accessories.  Because of the type of battery in the
machine, I would have to do serious soldering to attach external wires,
which would void the warranty.

My standby power mentor/guru explained to me quite a few years ago that
given a large enough battery source, the limiting factor in most
consumer-grade UPS is the heating of the electronics.  Both of those
UPSes are running at about 15% of "advertised capacity" which, according
to APC's runtime curve, extends the run time by a factor of 10.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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[Elecraft] Submission

[Greg]

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2, spy radio

[Dave Cole]

That and counting change back...

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 08/31/2017 07:56 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:

SSB would have been the equivalent of encryption.

Much like cursive writing today is secret code for us "old" people.

Chas

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Peterson
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:34 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KX2, spy radio

Imagine what the WWII resistance/spies would have given for a KX2!  Fun and
interesting to look at the equipment they were using.
Steve, Ki7L
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Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

What an "antenna tuner" does for you depends upon where you install it. 

There are two places where a low SWR is important: the load the finals in
the rig "see" and the load the transmission line "sees". In most HAM
installations the load the finals see is probably the most critical because
if it is not within specs the transmitter may shut down or the final
amplifier devices may self-destruct. Fortunately, Elecraft rigs have
protection against self destruction by reducing the output power as needed
but having the power reduce automatically is seldom desirable to the
operator. 

Before about the 1960's, the output tuning networks in Ham transmitters were
adjustable to provide a decently-low SWR to the finals with a wide variety
of loads. Back then with vacuum tube amps it was common to "dip the plate
current and adjust the loading for rated plate current at the dip". That
adjusted the output network for a proper match to the finals, but required
adjustment when QSYing. Then "no tune" rigs appeared which met the more
stringent FCC requirements for suppression of spurious emissions but
required a proper load: typically 50 ohms non-reactive.

A lot of antennas did NOT provide a "proper load" to the rig, so the use of
antenna tuners became popular. Many rigs built the antenna tuner into the
rig itself to ensure the final amplifier transistors (or tubes) always saw
an acceptable load. That is the function of all of the built-in ATUs in the
Elecraft rigs. 

That protects the finals in the rig but did nothing to help the load the
transmission line "sees". As the transmission line sees a higher and higher
SWR, its losses increase. That load is determined by the antenna. And, when
it is not practical to adjust the antenna for a good load at all
frequencies, remote antenna tuners have become more common when transmission
line losses are too large. Many, if not most, Hams simply live with the
increased transmission line losses up to the point where their transmission
line fails by being over-stressed with the excessive currents or excessive
voltages produced by the standing waves on the transmission line. This
occurs most commonly in the coaxial lines used by most Hams at QRO powers.  

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Drew AF2Z
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 7:17 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

An antenna current meter is pretty handy. I have a box of parts on my desk
waiting to become one. At least when it shows zero current I'll be able to
figure out pretty quickly that I forgot to connect the antenna, hehhe..

73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 08/31/17 18:09, Bill Frantz wrote:
> Sorry Jim. You are indeed correct about the feedline SWR. While there 
> are other SWRs within the radio, they aren't of much interest.
> 
> However, these radios do report a SWR in the UI, and that is what I 
> was referring to. Since a naive user might look at that figure and 
> say, "The SWR is 2. The antenna must be good.", it is important to 
> know that the tuners can produce a low figure on that meter with 
> nothing connected to the antenna connector.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

It's not a bad design goal if you can plan on only 1 or 2 outages per 
year, if that.  Probably not too bad if the generator kicks in and you 
only abuse the batteries for a few minutes.


My observation was that the big APC units charged at about half the 
discharge rate, so yeah, charging too fast, but the discharge did more 
harm than charging.


I was a 16 year old kid working his first real job in an auto parts 
store just after cars switched from 6v to 12v.  We could order 8 volt 
lead-acid batteries, and I always thought that 6+8 was 14.


73 - Lynn

On 8/31/2017 2:53 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
Second, a local computer guru, AE6KS, has observed that most UPS mfrs 
charge batteries at too fast a rate for good battery life. The objective 
is to have the unit ready to do it all again if power drops, then 
returns, then drops again.  This intentional design goal kills batteries 
pretty quickly.

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Re: [Elecraft] KX2, spy radio

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

SSB would have been the equivalent of encryption.

Much like cursive writing today is secret code for us "old" people.

Chas

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Peterson
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:34 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KX2, spy radio

Imagine what the WWII resistance/spies would have given for a KX2!  Fun and
interesting to look at the equipment they were using.
Steve, Ki7L
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Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

[Drew AF2Z]

An antenna current meter is pretty handy. I have a box of parts on my 
desk waiting to become one. At least when it shows zero current I'll be 
able to figure out pretty quickly that I forgot to connect the antenna, 
hehhe..


73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 08/31/17 18:09, Bill Frantz wrote:
Sorry Jim. You are indeed correct about the feedline SWR. While there 
are other SWRs within the radio, they aren't of much interest.


However, these radios do report a SWR in the UI, and that is what I was 
referring to. Since a naive user might look at that figure and say, "The 
SWR is 2. The antenna must be good.", it is important to know that the 
tuners can produce a low figure on that meter with nothing connected to 
the antenna connector.


73 Bill AE6JV



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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Jim N7US]

And my old, but still functioning with a new battery, APC Back-UPS Office,
500VA/325W UPS is also certified Class B.  It has a "stepped approximation
to a sine wave."

73, Jim N7US

-Original Message-

I forgot to add that the manual says it produces a sine wave.

73,  Jim N7US

-Original Message-

I have an APC SmartUPS 700, which I bought many years ago from
http://www.refurbups.com/.  The manual says it's certified as Class B.


73,  Jim N7US

-Original Message-


On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote:
> I had a couple racks of APC
> SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended 
> holdup to a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF 
> noisy those units are, though.

All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 Class A
(the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, roughly 20 dB
worse than Class B).

73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[john]

I have a couple CyberPower uninterruptable power supplies in my shack and I
have noticed no issues RX or TX.

John KK9A


Randy Farmer w8fn wrote: 
Thu Aug 31 20:09:52 EDT 2017

Hmmm. I had a Cyber Power 1500VA unit for a while on my station, but one 
day I transmitted on 12 meters and something inside the thing made a 
"pop". This was followed by a loud "crack" and the UPS expired then and 
there. I should note I have an extremely difficult RF environment on my 
tiny urban lot (a second floor shack with a SteppIR 3L about 15 feet 
directly over the operating chair). This might have been a one-off 
thing, but if you're going to use one of the Cyber Power devices, check 
it at LOW RF levels on all bands for EMI problems.

73...
Randy, W8FN

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[Elecraft] KX2, spy radio

[Stephen Peterson]

Imagine what the WWII resistance/spies would have given for a KX2!  Fun and
interesting to look at the equipment they were using.
Steve, Ki7L
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Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

[Richard Fjeld]

I snipped as much as I could to shorten this up.   See below.

I think the problem lies in part that early manuals taught antenna theory by 
starting out with a random wire and a simple L tuner as you say, at the antenna 
end of the transmission line.  The purpose was to add inductance or capacitance 
as needed to attempt to resonate the wire.  So, the term “tune the antenna” was 
used. And calling the matching devices  ‘tuners’ doesn’t help correct the 
terminology either.

Rich, n0ce




From: Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 6:36 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

>
> On 8/30/17 at 11:25 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:
>
>> Please don't perpetuate that myth, Bill. Tuners do NOT reduce the SWR
>> unless they're at the antenna end of a transmission line.
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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Randy Farmer]

Hmmm. I had a Cyber Power 1500VA unit for a while on my station, but one 
day I transmitted on 12 meters and something inside the thing made a 
"pop". This was followed by a loud "crack" and the UPS expired then and 
there. I should note I have an extremely difficult RF environment on my 
tiny urban lot (a second floor shack with a SteppIR 3L about 15 feet 
directly over the operating chair). This might have been a one-off 
thing, but if you're going to use one of the Cyber Power devices, check 
it at LOW RF levels on all bands for EMI problems.


73...
Randy, W8FN

On 8/31/2017 4:53 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
Perhaps by accident, I found Cyber Power branded UPS units that 1) 
claim an 8 hour charging rate and 2) FCC Part 15 Class B compliance 
for their pseudo-sinewave units. I have two of them in my shack with a 
160M vertical only 25 ft away, and with good chokes on their wiring, 
can't hear any noise when they're in standby mode. Haven't checked for 
noise when they're inverting.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 auto power reduction

[Fred Jensen]

T amp tells the K3 that it is there and ON, and the K3 changes the 
power.  This happens through that fat cable between the AUX ports.  It 
might be communications on the AUXBUS, or a dedicated signal.  I don't 
know if Elecraft makes that protocol public or not but it wouldn't hurt 
to ask them directly.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/31/2017 3:24 PM, Roger D Johnson wrote:

The KPA-500 (and probably the KPA-1500) will automatically reduce the
power from the K3 to a predetermined level for proper drive and back to
the level from the power control when the amp is off.

Is there a way to invoke this magic with other amplifiers?

73, Roger N1RJ 


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Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

One point to consider,  anytime one inserts a tuner in line at the 
transmitter, additional loss is also introduced. Additionally the SWR 
and related loss on the feedline is not reduced.   Some tuners, 
depending on load and frequency, can introduce as much as 25% power 
loss.   In many cases, a 2:1 SWR at the radio is better than using a 
tuner to show a 1:1 SWR at the radio due to added loss in the tuner and 
the feed line loss remains the same.



73

Bob, K4TAX




On 8/31/2017 5:09 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
Sorry Jim. You are indeed correct about the feedline SWR. While there 
are other SWRs within the radio, they aren't of much interest.


However, these radios do report a SWR in the UI, and that is what I 
was referring to. Since a naive user might look at that figure and 
say, "The SWR is 2. The antenna must be good.", it is important to 
know that the tuners can produce a low figure on that meter with 
nothing connected to the antenna connector.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/30/17 at 11:25 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:

Please don't perpetuate that myth, Bill. Tuners do NOT reduce the SWR 
unless they're at the antenna end of a transmission line. The SWR 
exists on the transmission line, and it is determined ENTIRELY by the 
match between the transmission line and the load.


What tuners at the rig do is get the rig to put power into the tuner 
(and hopefully, onto the transmission line).  If the SWR is high 
without the tuner, it is equally high WITH the tuner. Depending on 
the cable, the frequency, and the SWR, much of the power that the rig 
puts into the tuner gets to the transmission line, but is turned into 
heat by the SWR in the line and doesn't get to the antenna.


A better way to talk and think about this is to say that the tuner 
can match a wide variety of loads to the transmitter sufficiently 
well that the rig can pump the maximum power from its output 
terminals, whether it's feeding a short wet string or a nice long 
wire we've launched into a tree. And if there's no transmission line, 
SWR has no meaning!  So SWR is the wrong way to talk and think about it.


73, Jim K9YC

On 8/30/2017 10:15 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
My experience with the tuners in both the K3 and KX3 are that they 
will reach an acceptable SWR with anything. I always check the 
antenna when they take a long time to reach a match. (I.e. lots of 
clicking.) Most of the time I find I am trying to match an open 
antenna connection.



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---
Bill Frantz    | Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506   | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

[Fred Jensen]

Of all the terms and jargon in ham radio, "Standing Wave Ratio" has to 
be at least in the top 5 misunderstood ones, and maybe even top 3.  It 
didn't even really enter the ham vocabulary until the middle of the last 
century.


Helping a ham trying to use an 11 m vertical-ish wire on 80 m, was 
instructive.  Rig was a KX3 with ATU.  ATU indicated about 1.3:1 SWR, 
but no contacts.  EZNEC4 and TLW revealed the "gozinto" end of the coax 
looked like about 0.4+j ohms


The totally misnamed "Antenna Tuner" matched that to what the radio 
thought was roughly 50 + j0 ohms [L-networks are good at that].  
However, that network, plus I-squared R loss in the connectors, cable, 
and wire were eating almost all the power. Ultimately, center loading 
the wire raised the RR to about 20 ohms, lowered the reactance, and the 
ATU still reported about 1.3:1 SWR.  Only now, there were contacts now 
being made.


My KAT2 will match a 1 foot RG-58 jumper on 15 meters to about 1.5:1 
however I won't make many, if any, Q's.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

/31/2017 3:09 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
However, these radios do report a SWR in the UI, and that is what I 
was referring to. Since a naive user might look at that figure and 
say, "The SWR is 2. The antenna must be good.", it is important to 
know that the tuners can produce a low figure on that meter with 
nothing connected to the antenna connector.


73 Bill AE6JV


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[Elecraft] New Product: Elecraft MH4 Microphone for the K2, K3, and K3S transceivers

[Wayne Burdick]

Our new MH4 microphone is an enhanced replacement for the MH2, which is no 
longer available. The MH4 is available now on our order page.

The MH4 can be used with the K2, K3, and K3S transceivers. It has the same 
sensitive, high-performance element as the MH2, and can be used with the same 
bias and gain settings.

Other than the plug, the MH4 is identical in appearance to our MH3 mic, used 
with the KX2/KX3. It has a slimmer, more modern form-factor than the MH2, along 
with a less bulky coiled cord and a removable bracket that can be used to hang 
the mic in mobile applications. 

The MH4 includes UP/DN buttons, which are already supported by K2/K3/K3S 
firmware. These are convenient for mobile operation, or for situations when you 
can’t reach the radio’s front panel easily. On a K3 or K3S, the UP/DN buttons 
move the VFO or do channel hopping, whichever is in effect. On a K2, they 
alternate between VFO A and B, allowing a quick check of two selected 
frequencies.

73,

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Jim McDonald]

I forgot to add that the manual says it produces a sine wave.

73,  Jim N7US

-Original Message-

I have an APC SmartUPS 700, which I bought many years ago from
http://www.refurbups.com/.  The manual says it's certified as Class B.


73,  Jim N7US

-Original Message-


On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote:
> I had a couple racks of APC
> SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended 
> holdup to a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF 
> noisy those units are, though.

All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 Class A
(the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, roughly 20 dB
worse than Class B).

73, Jim K9YC

j...@n7us.net


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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Jim McDonald]

I have an APC SmartUPS 700, which I bought many years ago from 
http://www.refurbups.com/.  The manual says it's certified as Class B.


73,  Jim N7US

-Original Message-


On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote:
> I had a couple racks of APC
> SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended 
> holdup to a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF 
> noisy those units are, though.

All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 Class A
(the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, roughly 20 dB
worse than Class B).

73, Jim K9YC

j...@n7us.net

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[Elecraft] K3 auto power reduction

[Roger D Johnson]

The KPA-500 (and probably the KPA-1500) will automatically reduce the
power from the K3 to a predetermined level for proper drive and back to
the level from the power control when the amp is off.

Is there a way to invoke this magic with other amplifiers?

73, Roger N1RJ


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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Bill Frantz]

I started with a magnifier on an arm with a circular florescent 
lamp. I still use this device for anything which needs a bit of 
magnification including inspecting thru-hole boards and fixing 
knitting mistakes. I assembled a number of kits with SMT parts 
using this magnifier.


I then got a cheap head-mounted magnifier with a built in LED 
light. It gives more magnification, but I haven't used it in any 
important project yet. It has the advantage of being portable, 
so it can go to field day to makes repairs.


Then I came across a Bausch and Lomb zoom binocular microscope 
with a ring light for $120 at an electronics flea market. After 
checking it out, I quickly paid the seller. It is excellent for 
inspecting SMT parts for good solder connections.


All of these devices can help with construction projects.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/31/17 at 11:00 AM, w6...@me.com (James Bennett) wrote:

Guys - I’m about to hit the magic “70” mark and have been 
using +250 readers for quite a while. I’ve also been a stamp 
collector since age eight. Bad eyes and stamp collectinig 
don’t go together very well! The readers are fine for reading 
(du) but when it comes to really small, close-up 
examination of stamps, I got out my checkbook several years ago 
and purchased a fairly inexpensive (~$350) stereo microscope. 
Couple years ago I took the plunge and built my first SMT-based 
QRP rig. In addition to some really small resistors and 
capacitors, it also had a couple of the 64 and 128 pin IC’s. 
Using that microscope made it a breeze. I’ve since built 
several SMT-based kits and find it quite easy with a microscope 
to see what one is doing. Now, unstable hands are quite another 
thing… :-(

---
Bill Frantz| If the site is supported by  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | ads, you are the product.| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

[Bill Frantz]

Sorry Jim. You are indeed correct about the feedline SWR. While 
there are other SWRs within the radio, they aren't of much interest.


However, these radios do report a SWR in the UI, and that is 
what I was referring to. Since a naive user might look at that 
figure and say, "The SWR is 2. The antenna must be good.", it is 
important to know that the tuners can produce a low figure on 
that meter with nothing connected to the antenna connector.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/30/17 at 11:25 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:

Please don't perpetuate that myth, Bill.  Tuners do NOT reduce 
the SWR unless they're at the antenna end of a transmission 
line. The SWR exists on the transmission line, and it is 
determined ENTIRELY by the match between the transmission line 
and the load.


What tuners at the rig do is get the rig to put power into the 
tuner (and hopefully, onto the transmission line).  If the SWR 
is high without the tuner, it is equally high WITH the tuner. 
Depending on the cable, the frequency, and the SWR, much of the 
power that the rig puts into the tuner gets to the transmission 
line, but is turned into heat by the SWR in the line and 
doesn't get to the antenna.


A better way to talk and think about this is to say that the 
tuner can match a wide variety of loads to the transmitter 
sufficiently well that the rig can pump the maximum power from 
its output terminals, whether it's feeding a short wet string 
or a nice long wire we've launched into a tree. And if there's 
no transmission line, SWR has no meaning!  So SWR is the wrong 
way to talk and think about it.


73, Jim K9YC

On 8/30/2017 10:15 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
My experience with the tuners in both the K3 and KX3 are that 
they will reach an acceptable SWR with anything. I always 
check the antenna when they take a long time to reach a match. 
(I.e. lots of clicking.) Most of the time I find I am trying 
to match an open antenna connection.



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---
Bill Frantz| Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506   | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Jim Brown]

On 8/31/2017 11:35 AM, Tox wrote:

I had a couple racks of APC
SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended holdup to
a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF noisy those
units are, though.


All of the APC units for which I've seen spec sheets are FCC Part 15 
Class A (the industrial spec, ILLEGAL to sell for residential use, 
roughly 20 dB worse than Class B).


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Jim Brown]

Good observations, Lynn.  A few more. First, I failed to observe that my 
100Ah LiFePO4 battery runs ONLY my K3s. A big lead-acid from Costco runs 
other 12V gear and LED lighting. I do NOT try to provide UPS for power 
amps.  If I need them, I'll fire up the big 240V generator.


Second, a local computer guru, AE6KS, has observed that most UPS mfrs 
charge batteries at too fast a rate for good battery life. The objective 
is to have the unit ready to do it all again if power drops, then 
returns, then drops again.  This intentional design goal kills batteries 
pretty quickly.


Perhaps by accident, I found Cyber Power branded UPS units that 1) claim 
an 8 hour charging rate and 2) FCC Part 15 Class B compliance for their 
pseudo-sinewave units. I have two of them in my shack with a 160M 
vertical only 25 ft away, and with good chokes on their wiring, can't 
hear any noise when they're in standby mode.  Haven't checked for noise 
when they're inverting.


I use one to keep an ancient tower computer running, and the second one 
to backup the 120V accessories -- rotator controllers and SteppIR 
controller -- and the laptop PSU is plugged in there.


73, Jim K9YC

On 8/31/2017 10:46 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
Jim's suggestion also lets you size the battery to run all the gear 
for more than a few minutes.



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Re: [Elecraft] Drone antenna launch Field portable! Changed topic.

[Terry Schieler]

I have been using a Blade CX2 RC helicopter to fly antenna wires up above tree 
tops for quite a few years now.  I had added an LED nav light kit to the CX2 
(red, green plus white landing light) and it runs off a simple on/off toggle on 
the transmitter.  I installed a small servo on the belly of the chopper that 
uses the servo arm to pull a piano-wire pin out of a U-shaped block of balsa 
wood.  The fish line antenna leader is hooked over the piano wire.  I installed 
a "Y" adapter to the navigation light circuit on the chopper and used it to 
fully activate the add-on (parallel) servo, which released the antenna lead-in 
line when it was properly hovering above the target tree.  So, when I flipped 
the nav light toggle to ON, the hook wire pulled back and released the fish 
line.  Took some experimenting with weights on the leader line to plow through 
some of the dense branches, but finally got it pretty consistent.  This started 
years before the word "drone" was common in R/C.  

Plain old radio-controlled helicopter (remember those?)

Terry, WØFM

-Original Message-
From: Richard Thorne [mailto:rtho...@rthorne.net] 
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 8:11 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Drone antenna launch Field portable! Changed topic.

John,

Do use a separate receiver in order to activate the release or is there an 
extra slot on the drone receiver?

I'm assuming your using a bind - n - fly drone.  If it's home brew with your 
own receiver then it probably has a spare slot that you can program a switch to?

Rich - N5ZC


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Re: [Elecraft] Wattage Draw - K3S/100 vs KPA500/KAT500 - for UPS

[Bob]

Well maybe more shacks should have that capability. It is not expensive as here:

https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B9MDBU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8=1504119777=8-3=power+meter

Certainly not lab grade but good as even just a shack line monitor or bench 
tool.

Another useful application, and I always have it on to monitor the output of the 
backup generator.  I can see output voltage and line freq.  Seeing within a few 
cycles of 60 lets me know that engine speed is being regulated correctly.


Disclaimer:  Inadequate for future KPA1500 owners.

73,
Bob
K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR


On 8/30/2017 1:56 PM, Mike Maloney wrote:

Oh my!  The KPA500 is more efficient than you give it credit.   Since few have 
instruments to measure ac input parameters, will volunteer actual measurement 
figures.At 650W output into 50 ohm load, highest VA recorded was at 14.1 MHz at 
1166.  Watts 974 with a pf of 0.83 or 83%.   AC input amps 10.3.   Awesome!
73,Mike  AC5P

 On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 7:28 AM, Don Wilhelm 
 wrote:
  


  Tom,

That 3000 watts I mentioned is for everything in the station.
The KPA500 alone needs 120 volts at about 13 amps, maybe peaking to
something greater.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/30/2017 8:16 AM, KQ5S-Tom wrote:

3000W at 120V is 25 amps.  He had better have a dedicate circuit.  I believe if 
I had to run a dedicated circuit I would run a 220 circuit for the amp and put 
everything else on the UPS.

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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Wes Stewart]

Coffee.

In the early 1980's I was working on a new PA design for Phoenix Missile.  The 
original design used relatively narrow band klystons, and we needed more BW for, 
well, never mind.  So the new design used a three-stage IMPATT diode amplifier 
(injection-locked oscillator in reality). A single diode driving a three-diode 
combiner driving a 16-diode combiner.  The IMPATTs needed to be pretty well 
matched, a real problem with the state of the art at the time.


So before we characterized each one in a test fixture, we serialized them.  Mind 
you these were microwave packages with a ceramic pill mounted on a 1/8" diameter 
gold-plated copper flange with a 3-48 stud on the bottom.  We just used a very 
fine probe to scratch the 10 digit serial number on the flange.  I could do 
about 30 diodes first thing in the morning.  After that and a cup or two of 
coffee I was done for the day.


Wes  N7WS


 On 8/31/2017 11:21 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
There is one infirmity that has not yet been mentioned that degrades one's 
ability to work with SMT devices ... allergies.  One sneeze and your project 
is over.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County


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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Clay Autery]

LOL!!  Well, yeah, if you have all the parts out in a pile...  I have
organizers I use so that I never have more out on the work surface than
absolutely required.  And I don't even have allergies...  but I have had
a sneeze scatter little parts before.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 8/31/2017 1:21 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> There is one infirmity that has not yet been mentioned that degrades
> one's ability to work with SMT devices ... allergies.  One sneeze and
> your project is over.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S and P3 for sale

[Jeremiah Peschka]

I'm lowering the price to $3700 and will pay for shipping within the
continental United States.

Either email at jeremiah.pesc...@gmail.com or you can call/text to
+1.614.388.8264

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:14 AM Jeremiah Peschka 
wrote:

> K3S and P3 for sale. Factory assembled. Originally purchased on 6/10/15
> for $5,111.
>
> Total package: $4,000 - shipping not included.
>
> Contact Jeremiah, KG7TXV, at jeremiah.pesc...@gmail.com
>
> More details follow:
>
> K3S serial number: 10017
> P3 serial number: 3859
>
> Includes the following (factory installed) options:
>
> - 100W upgrade for K3/K3S
> - ATU for K3/K3S
> - Standard 5 ppm Oscillator
> - 2.7 kHz Elecraft Filter
> - 2.1 kHz, 8 pole roofing filter
> - K3 250 Hz, 8 Pole Filter
> - K3 500 Hz, 5 Pole Filter
> - FM-bandwidth,8-pole roofing filter
> - K144XV REFLOCK
> - 2M Module for K3/10
> - P3-F Panadapter for the K3
> - SS30DV Sw. Pwr Supply, 14.1V, 25A
>
> K3 Book also included.
>
> Due to timing and life changes, this unit has only seen about 4 hours of
> use, none of that is transmitting.
>
> --
>
> Jeremiah Peschka
>
-- 

Jeremiah Peschka
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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Tox]

That said, for my own use, I've got a 100Ah LFP from Blackwood Innovations
for my ham hear; BioEnno has units all the way up to 300Ah for the
deep-of-pocker.

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Tox  wrote:

> There are also UPSes meant for extended runtimes that are a little less
> brutal on the batteries. One Upon a Time, I had a couple racks of APC
> SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended holdup to
> a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF noisy those
> units are, though.
>
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <
> kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm going to add that nearly every UPS made is meant to bridge the time
>> between when the power goes out, and the (automatic) generator starts.
>>
>> If you don't have a generator, the UPS signals the computer(s) so that
>> they can shut down gracefully and turn the UPS off.
>>
>> The (typically AGM lead-acid) batteries are sized for maybe 15 minutes,
>> which is way too fast.  Drawing a lead-acid battery flat in 15 minutes will
>> kill it in only a few cycles.
>>
>> What I did as part of my ISP was to remove the batteries from my UPSes
>> and replace 7 or 12Ah batteries with 100Ah batteries outside the case.
>>
>> That didn't get me to the 10 hours for maximum battery life, but it got
>> me to 8 hours.
>>
>> Jim's suggestion also lets you size the battery to run all the gear for
>> more than a few minutes.
>>
>> 73 -- Lynn
>>
>> On 8/30/2017 8:55 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>
>>> A FAR better way to provide UPS for radio gear is a 12V deep discharge
>>> lead acid battery or 14.4V LiFePO4 that is float charged by a suitable
>>> power supply. And as has been discussed several times, LiFePO4 batteries
>>> have the major advantage that their operating voltage stays above 13V for
>>> most of their discharge curve, while lead-acid batteries are below 12V for
>>> most of their discharge curve. This system is as quiet as the power supply
>>> used to float-charge the battery.
>>>
>>> With either battery type, care must be taken to not overcharge the
>>> battery.
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Scott Small
>
>
>
>


-- 
Scott Small
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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Tox]

There are also UPSes meant for extended runtimes that are a little less
brutal on the batteries. One Upon a Time, I had a couple racks of APC
SmartUPS 2000 units with daisychained batteries to give extended holdup to
a couple of racks of telecom and server hw. No clue how RF noisy those
units are, though.

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <
kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com> wrote:

> I'm going to add that nearly every UPS made is meant to bridge the time
> between when the power goes out, and the (automatic) generator starts.
>
> If you don't have a generator, the UPS signals the computer(s) so that
> they can shut down gracefully and turn the UPS off.
>
> The (typically AGM lead-acid) batteries are sized for maybe 15 minutes,
> which is way too fast.  Drawing a lead-acid battery flat in 15 minutes will
> kill it in only a few cycles.
>
> What I did as part of my ISP was to remove the batteries from my UPSes and
> replace 7 or 12Ah batteries with 100Ah batteries outside the case.
>
> That didn't get me to the 10 hours for maximum battery life, but it got me
> to 8 hours.
>
> Jim's suggestion also lets you size the battery to run all the gear for
> more than a few minutes.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 8/30/2017 8:55 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
>> A FAR better way to provide UPS for radio gear is a 12V deep discharge
>> lead acid battery or 14.4V LiFePO4 that is float charged by a suitable
>> power supply. And as has been discussed several times, LiFePO4 batteries
>> have the major advantage that their operating voltage stays above 13V for
>> most of their discharge curve, while lead-acid batteries are below 12V for
>> most of their discharge curve. This system is as quiet as the power supply
>> used to float-charge the battery.
>>
>> With either battery type, care must be taken to not overcharge the
>> battery.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
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-- 
Scott Small
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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Fred Jensen]

There is one infirmity that has not yet been mentioned that degrades 
one's ability to work with SMT devices ... allergies.  One sneeze and 
your project is over.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/31/2017 11:00 AM, James Bennett wrote:

Guys - I’m about to hit the magic “70” mark and have been using +250 readers 
for quite a while. I’ve also been a stamp collector since age eight. Bad eyes 
and stamp collectinig don’t go together very well! The readers are fine for 
reading (du) but when it comes to really small, close-up examination of 
stamps, I got out my checkbook several years ago and purchased a fairly 
inexpensive (~$350) stereo microscope. Couple years ago I took the plunge and 
built my first SMT-based QRP rig. In addition to some really small resistors 
and capacitors, it also had a couple of the 64 and 128 pin IC’s. Using that 
microscope made it a breeze. I’ve since built several SMT-based kits and find 
it quite easy with a microscope to see what one is doing. Now, unstable hands 
are quite another thing… :-(

So, if Elecraft ever starts offering SMT kits, one of this units is the only 
way to go.

Jim / W6JHB
Folsom, CA



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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[roney]

Luckily to have mine K1, bought this year.
I intended to buy another one by the end of this year.
Now I have to safely keep it as a jewel!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/roney/34754819981/
Great little rig...

73 de PY1ZB

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 3:00 PM, James Bennett  wrote:

> Guys - I’m about to hit the magic “70” mark and have been using +250
> readers for quite a while. I’ve also been a stamp collector since age
> eight. Bad eyes and stamp collectinig don’t go together very well! The
> readers are fine for reading (du) but when it comes to really small,
> close-up examination of stamps, I got out my checkbook several years ago
> and purchased a fairly inexpensive (~$350) stereo microscope. Couple years
> ago I took the plunge and built my first SMT-based QRP rig. In addition to
> some really small resistors and capacitors, it also had a couple of the 64
> and 128 pin IC’s. Using that microscope made it a breeze. I’ve since built
> several SMT-based kits and find it quite easy with a microscope to see what
> one is doing. Now, unstable hands are quite another thing… :-(
>
> So, if Elecraft ever starts offering SMT kits, one of this units is the
> only way to go.
>
> Jim / W6JHB
> Folsom, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:50 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> >
> > Jim has a point here, of course.  I'm only 53, but my once
> > "aviator-quality" vision now requires quite a bit of augmentation to do
> > close work like SMT...
> >
> > But I plan to fight it EVERY step of the way  More magnification,
> > more light, hell...  I'll use robot hands if I need to.  I like building!
> >
> > __
> > Clay Autery, KY5G
> >
> > On 8/30/2017 11:00 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >> On 8/30/2017 7:30 PM, N4OI - Ken wrote:
> >>> I do not understand the general fear of working with SMT components.
> >>
> >> As you get older, you will. Eyes, steadiness of hand, eye-hand
> >> coordination, all can make working with SMT a challenge. Mine will be
> >> 76 years old in a few months. Several years ago, I learned just enough
> >> to do relatively simple SMT work with fairly large SMT components in a
> >> band pass filter kit. I couldn't even SEE the smaller SMT components
> >> in that kit, and called in reinforcements.
> >>
> >> 73, Jim K9YC
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[James Bennett]

Guys - I’m about to hit the magic “70” mark and have been using +250 readers 
for quite a while. I’ve also been a stamp collector since age eight. Bad eyes 
and stamp collectinig don’t go together very well! The readers are fine for 
reading (du) but when it comes to really small, close-up examination of 
stamps, I got out my checkbook several years ago and purchased a fairly 
inexpensive (~$350) stereo microscope. Couple years ago I took the plunge and 
built my first SMT-based QRP rig. In addition to some really small resistors 
and capacitors, it also had a couple of the 64 and 128 pin IC’s. Using that 
microscope made it a breeze. I’ve since built several SMT-based kits and find 
it quite easy with a microscope to see what one is doing. Now, unstable hands 
are quite another thing… :-(

So, if Elecraft ever starts offering SMT kits, one of this units is the only 
way to go.

Jim / W6JHB
Folsom, CA






> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:50 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> Jim has a point here, of course.  I'm only 53, but my once
> "aviator-quality" vision now requires quite a bit of augmentation to do
> close work like SMT...
> 
> But I plan to fight it EVERY step of the way  More magnification,
> more light, hell...  I'll use robot hands if I need to.  I like building!
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> 
> On 8/30/2017 11:00 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 8/30/2017 7:30 PM, N4OI - Ken wrote:
>>> I do not understand the general fear of working with SMT components.
>> 
>> As you get older, you will. Eyes, steadiness of hand, eye-hand
>> coordination, all can make working with SMT a challenge. Mine will be
>> 76 years old in a few months. Several years ago, I learned just enough
>> to do relatively simple SMT work with fairly large SMT components in a
>> band pass filter kit. I couldn't even SEE the smaller SMT components
>> in that kit, and called in reinforcements.
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Walter Underwood]

They could call it the K1x, just to keep things confusing.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:47 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> Now THAT is intriguing to me...
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
> 
>> But how small would the K1 be if made with SMT's and a few toroids.  Ooohhh..
>> 
>> 73, Byron N6NUL
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Clay Autery]

Jim has a point here, of course.  I'm only 53, but my once
"aviator-quality" vision now requires quite a bit of augmentation to do
close work like SMT...

But I plan to fight it EVERY step of the way  More magnification,
more light, hell...  I'll use robot hands if I need to.  I like building!

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 8/30/2017 11:00 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 8/30/2017 7:30 PM, N4OI - Ken wrote:
>> I do not understand the general fear of working with SMT components.
>
> As you get older, you will. Eyes, steadiness of hand, eye-hand
> coordination, all can make working with SMT a challenge. Mine will be
> 76 years old in a few months. Several years ago, I learned just enough
> to do relatively simple SMT work with fairly large SMT components in a
> band pass filter kit. I couldn't even SEE the smaller SMT components
> in that kit, and called in reinforcements.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Clay Autery]

Now THAT is intriguing to me...

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

> But how small would the K1 be if made with SMT's and a few toroids.  Ooohhh..
>
> 73, Byron N6NUL
>
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Re: [Elecraft] UPS Can Be a Noise Source

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

I'm going to add that nearly every UPS made is meant to bridge the time 
between when the power goes out, and the (automatic) generator starts.


If you don't have a generator, the UPS signals the computer(s) so that 
they can shut down gracefully and turn the UPS off.


The (typically AGM lead-acid) batteries are sized for maybe 15 minutes, 
which is way too fast.  Drawing a lead-acid battery flat in 15 minutes 
will kill it in only a few cycles.


What I did as part of my ISP was to remove the batteries from my UPSes 
and replace 7 or 12Ah batteries with 100Ah batteries outside the case.


That didn't get me to the 10 hours for maximum battery life, but it got 
me to 8 hours.


Jim's suggestion also lets you size the battery to run all the gear for 
more than a few minutes.


73 -- Lynn

On 8/30/2017 8:55 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
A FAR better way to provide UPS for radio gear is a 12V deep discharge 
lead acid battery or 14.4V LiFePO4 that is float charged by a suitable 
power supply. And as has been discussed several times, LiFePO4 batteries 
have the major advantage that their operating voltage stays above 13V 
for most of their discharge curve, while lead-acid batteries are below 
12V for most of their discharge curve. This system is as quiet as the 
power supply used to float-charge the battery.


With either battery type, care must be taken to not overcharge the battery.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

[Dave Fugleberg]

Jim, I think that last point is often overloaded and bears repeating. With
rigs like the KX2 or KX3, it's a common practice to connect the radiating
element directly to the rig and put the other end as high as possible. In
that case, 'SWR' is kinda meaningless, as the built in 'ATU' is actually
matching the output to the impedance at the antenna feed point.
The KX2 does this amazingly well, and I'm glad I sprung for that option.
In any other case, I tend to shy away from built in tuners or tuners in the
shack, and instead use a remote automatic coupler at the feed point (I use
the SGC 230 at home).
Good conversation.

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:25 AM Jim Brown  wrote:

> Please don't perpetuate that myth, Bill.  Tuners do NOT reduce the SWR
> unless they're at the antenna end of a transmission line. The SWR exists
> on the transmission line, and it is determined ENTIRELY by the match
> between the transmission line and the load.
>
> What tuners at the rig do is get the rig to put power into the tuner
> (and hopefully, onto the transmission line).  If the SWR is high without
> the tuner, it is equally high WITH the tuner. Depending on the cable,
> the frequency, and the SWR, much of the power that the rig puts into the
> tuner gets to the transmission line, but is turned into heat by the SWR
> in the line and doesn't get to the antenna.
>
> A better way to talk and think about this is to say that the tuner can
> match a wide variety of loads to the transmitter sufficiently well that
> the rig can pump the maximum power from its output terminals, whether
> it's feeding a short wet string or a nice long wire we've launched into
> a tree. And if there's no transmission line, SWR has no meaning!  So SWR
> is the wrong way to talk and think about it.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 8/30/2017 10:15 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> > My experience with the tuners in both the K3 and KX3 are that they
> > will reach an acceptable SWR with anything. I always check the antenna
> > when they take a long time to reach a match. (I.e. lots of clicking.)
> > Most of the time I find I am trying to match an open antenna connection.
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Walter Underwood]

Mike, are you AB7RU? I was looking for resources near you. I don’t see any 10 m 
repeaters in eastern Washington or in Idaho, so that is out.

You might listen for the daily 10-10 SSB nets.

http://www.ten-ten.org/index.php/activity/daily-nets 


There are also some 10 m beacons.

http://www.ten-ten.org/index.php/resources/ten-meter-beacons 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Mike Parkes  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> Thank you very much for sharing all that. I like your dipole approach
> there, getting at least one end up in the air at the roof level of that
> condo. I could possibly do something like that, slingshot a line to the
> rooftop of this apt bldg somehow ... Maybe with some kind of batman grapple
> hook thing on the end that can snag on something hi. My big concern here is
> how close the power lines are. Anyway. I am still mulling it over and
> continue to work with the buddistick (or the metal downspout on this bldg
> which tunes up surprisingly well on all bands).
> 
> Mostly I am just trying to keep the faith right now that something will
> work out here. There is a lot of background noise here...tuning across the
> bands I hear one weird "signal" after the other, swooshing in and out as i
> tune the bands, which must be the horrid interference thrown out from all
> the WiFi routers around here... 60 cycle noise, buzzes, pops, I mean it is
> a real cacophony of sounds. There must be all kinds of intermodulation
> sorts of interference, the rfi mixing with the kx3's receiver. The NB and
> NR of the kx3 actually does a good job knocking a lot of that back. So far
> not one contact though. Trying *not* to see my investment as a rather
> expensive mini boat anchor.
> 
> I think I will buy some China HT and at least get on 2 meters (not sure I
> am ready to spend the $260 on a 2 meter module for the kx3 just yet,
> although I will probably add it at some point anyway.)
> 
> I wish there was some way to at least scare up some local 10 meter (line of
> sight) activity here so that I could at determine if this radio is
> transmitting okay. Some local HF qso's would be great... But I am not a
> part of a local ham club or anything here to try and set up a sked with
> anyone. Anyway... I appreciate your thoughts there, I am still trying to
> figure out what I really hope to get out of ham radio. So far it is QSOs on
> this Elecraft mailing list :) which is a great group here... This band is
> always open as long as the internet works. :) 73s, mike.
> 
> On Aug 13, 2017 7:18 PM, "Bob McGraw K4TAX"  wrote:
> 
>> Mike:
>> 
>> Glad to share my thoughts and experiences.
>> 
>> As to using a dipole, feed it in the center with coax RG-58, RG-8X.  And
>> the dipole does not have to be in a straight line.  On the balcony or
>> patio, a single center support and droop the ends down in an inverted V
>> style.   Or stretch it out as straight as you can between two supports  and
>> droop the ends if it is longer than the two supports are spaced.
>> 
>> I used both of these combinations when we lived in a condo in South FL.
>> With one of my antennas I had it vertical by dropping a Dacron  fishing
>> line from the roof of a 3 story building down to our balcony on the 2nd
>> floor.  I moved it away, sideways from the balcony so as not to attract the
>> attention the upstairs neighbor.  Connected the end of my 20 M dipole and
>> hauled it up such that the feed point was about at the ceiling level of our
>> balcony or the floor level of the upstairs neighbor. The other end made it
>> just about to the ground.  A nice fishing weight attached to the lower end
>> kept thing taught.  I used some #30 Teflon covered wire which was white.
>> Looked more like a spider web and couldn't be seen from 15 ft or so against
>> the white building.  I just tied a knot in the end and attached the
>> Dacron.  The center insulator was a piece of plastic  from a milk jug, and
>> the #30 wire was not stripped but just tied with a couple of 1" or so
>> pigtails.  Strip the ends and attach the coax.  Found some white marine
>> RG58 for the feed line.  It was in place for about 6 years.  No one noticed
>> or said anything.  Worked great.  Fortunately our condo was only 30 units
>> most of which were seasonal occupancy.  Thus empty most of the year.  Only
>> about 12 to 15 full time residents.
>> 
>> Just be creative.   The site I refer to is that of DJ0IP.   He designs
>> antennas for portable operation, back pack operation and such.  Thus small,
>> compact and lightweight.  He also has great information on
>> balunsgood onesand bad ones.Correct applications and
>> incorrect applications.
>> 
>> Yes, digital modes are very conducive to low power and noise conditions.
>> The new FT8 mode which is 

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Mike Parkes]

Bob,
Thank you very much for sharing all that. I like your dipole approach
there, getting at least one end up in the air at the roof level of that
condo. I could possibly do something like that, slingshot a line to the
rooftop of this apt bldg somehow ... Maybe with some kind of batman grapple
hook thing on the end that can snag on something hi. My big concern here is
how close the power lines are. Anyway. I am still mulling it over and
continue to work with the buddistick (or the metal downspout on this bldg
which tunes up surprisingly well on all bands).

Mostly I am just trying to keep the faith right now that something will
work out here. There is a lot of background noise here...tuning across the
bands I hear one weird "signal" after the other, swooshing in and out as i
tune the bands, which must be the horrid interference thrown out from all
the WiFi routers around here... 60 cycle noise, buzzes, pops, I mean it is
a real cacophony of sounds. There must be all kinds of intermodulation
sorts of interference, the rfi mixing with the kx3's receiver. The NB and
NR of the kx3 actually does a good job knocking a lot of that back. So far
not one contact though. Trying *not* to see my investment as a rather
expensive mini boat anchor.

I think I will buy some China HT and at least get on 2 meters (not sure I
am ready to spend the $260 on a 2 meter module for the kx3 just yet,
although I will probably add it at some point anyway.)

I wish there was some way to at least scare up some local 10 meter (line of
sight) activity here so that I could at determine if this radio is
transmitting okay. Some local HF qso's would be great... But I am not a
part of a local ham club or anything here to try and set up a sked with
anyone. Anyway... I appreciate your thoughts there, I am still trying to
figure out what I really hope to get out of ham radio. So far it is QSOs on
this Elecraft mailing list :) which is a great group here... This band is
always open as long as the internet works. :) 73s, mike.

On Aug 13, 2017 7:18 PM, "Bob McGraw K4TAX"  wrote:

> Mike:
>
> Glad to share my thoughts and experiences.
>
> As to using a dipole, feed it in the center with coax RG-58, RG-8X.  And
> the dipole does not have to be in a straight line.  On the balcony or
> patio, a single center support and droop the ends down in an inverted V
> style.   Or stretch it out as straight as you can between two supports  and
> droop the ends if it is longer than the two supports are spaced.
>
> I used both of these combinations when we lived in a condo in South FL.
> With one of my antennas I had it vertical by dropping a Dacron  fishing
> line from the roof of a 3 story building down to our balcony on the 2nd
> floor.  I moved it away, sideways from the balcony so as not to attract the
> attention the upstairs neighbor.  Connected the end of my 20 M dipole and
> hauled it up such that the feed point was about at the ceiling level of our
> balcony or the floor level of the upstairs neighbor. The other end made it
> just about to the ground.  A nice fishing weight attached to the lower end
> kept thing taught.  I used some #30 Teflon covered wire which was white.
> Looked more like a spider web and couldn't be seen from 15 ft or so against
> the white building.  I just tied a knot in the end and attached the
> Dacron.  The center insulator was a piece of plastic  from a milk jug, and
> the #30 wire was not stripped but just tied with a couple of 1" or so
> pigtails.  Strip the ends and attach the coax.  Found some white marine
> RG58 for the feed line.  It was in place for about 6 years.  No one noticed
> or said anything.  Worked great.  Fortunately our condo was only 30 units
> most of which were seasonal occupancy.  Thus empty most of the year.  Only
> about 12 to 15 full time residents.
>
> Just be creative.   The site I refer to is that of DJ0IP.   He designs
> antennas for portable operation, back pack operation and such.  Thus small,
> compact and lightweight.  He also has great information on
> balunsgood onesand bad ones.Correct applications and
> incorrect applications.
>
> Yes, digital modes are very conducive to low power and noise conditions.
> The new FT8 mode which is included in the WSJT-X latest version is fast and
> good.   Not a rag chew mode by any means, but one can make contacts with
> the simple exchange of calls, grid squares, signal reports, 73 and log
> it.   Lots of activity on that mode.  Much faster, actually 4 times,  than
> JT-65 which is more like watching paint dry.   I've been active on 6M the
> past 2 weeks on FT-8 mode  and this weekend with the Perseid meteor shower
> using MSK144.
>
> If you are trying to work the lower frequencies, below 7 MHz, you will
> really need a much larger antenna.  Not saying it can't be done but more
> antenna and more power is generally required.For a while I use my
> mobile HF Hustler antenna and a pair of vice grip pliers to clamp 

[Elecraft] Elecraft K3 / KX3 with Rigblaster Advantage?

[Bert Rollen]

Hi all,

I am reconfiguring a few radios and wanting to use an *existing* sound-card 
interface -

So, anyone using the Rigblaster Advantage with their K3 w/serial port or KX3 (I 
have both)?

(I did not see much at all on archives regarding use of the RB Advantage unit)


  *   Thus, I am looking for insight on performance, set-up tips, & potential 
problems, etc.

Here is what I have - 
http://www.westmountainradio.com/product_info.php?products_id=rb_adv

The kind folks at Elecraft have advised that CAT control should work, but to 
continue using my KUSB during K3 firmware updates (which I agree)

I am primarily interested in setting it up for the K3, but at some point may 
play with the KX3 as well.


Thanks, Bert - K4AR
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

I prefer to use the end fed wire in an inverted "L" configuration with the 
vertical leg running down a FG pole to the radio.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Barthold Lichtenbelt via Elecraft 
 To: 'Walter Underwood' ; 'Reflector Elecraft' 
 
 Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 7:28 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?
   
Walter,

This was a super informative writeup, thank you! 

I have one question for you. If you throw a 26-29 foot wire in a tree, but it 
is impractical to sit right at the end of the wire (too many branches in the 
way, or whatever) to operate, how would you extend it? For example, operate 
from a table 20 feet away.

Thanks!
Barthold
AD0RM

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:10 AM
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In July, five SOTA operators put up seven different antennas on a summit and 
compared their performance with WSPR. Six of the antennas were mostly within 3 
dB of each other. The EARCHI antenna (end-fed with transformer) was  between 6 
and 15 dB worse than the others. So in one experiment, the 9:1 transformer did 
not help.

http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
 


When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no transmission 
line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the transmission line. It is 
putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna.

The 26-29 foot length is chosen to avoid very high or very low impedances in 
the ham bands down to 40 m Especially, it is not a 1/2 wave on any band. That 
makes it easier to match. If you want to work 80 m, use a 53 foot wire.

The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot better 
than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially important 
because it is capacitively coupled to the ground. Ground resistance swamps any 
resonance.

I first heard about this antenna on this list. It was recommended by Wayne, 
N6KR. It is documented on page 9 of the instructions for the KXAT1 antenna 
tuner, “...for backpacking use on 40/30/20 meters, a wire length of 24-28 feet 
will generally provide good results. […] Ground system: Use a at least one 
ground radial, cut to at least 1/8th wavelength on the lowest band used (16' on 
40 meters). When possible, use two or more radials, with one cut to 1/4 
wavelength on each band."

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf 


There is similar advice on page 10 of the KX2 manual.

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner%27s%20man.pdf 


Finally, stop trying to think about “balanced” and “unbalanced” because those 
words are used in bizarre, inconsistent ways. Voltage, whether DC or RF, is 
always between two terminals. With a center-fed dipole, the two terminals are 
the elements. With this setup, the two terminals are the wire in the air and 
the wire on the ground.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 5:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> 
> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers. 
> 
> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using a 
> BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.  
> 
> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about 
> these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and the 
> wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments with 
> end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great 
> successes. 
> 
> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my 
> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't 
> recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my 
> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.    Why does 
> this work?  :)
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood  > wrote:
> You can get a quick look at band conditions at 
> http://bandconditions.com  
> >
> 
> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if 
> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
> 
> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly to 
> 

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Barthold Lichtenbelt via Elecraft]

Walter,

This was a super informative writeup, thank you! 

I have one question for you. If you throw a 26-29 foot wire in a tree, but it 
is impractical to sit right at the end of the wire (too many branches in the 
way, or whatever) to operate, how would you extend it? For example, operate 
from a table 20 feet away.

Thanks!
Barthold
AD0RM

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:10 AM
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In July, five SOTA operators put up seven different antennas on a summit and 
compared their performance with WSPR. Six of the antennas were mostly within 3 
dB of each other. The EARCHI antenna (end-fed with transformer) was  between 6 
and 15 dB worse than the others. So in one experiment, the 9:1 transformer did 
not help.

http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
 


When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no transmission 
line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the transmission line. It is 
putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna.

The 26-29 foot length is chosen to avoid very high or very low impedances in 
the ham bands down to 40 m Especially, it is not a 1/2 wave on any band. That 
makes it easier to match. If you want to work 80 m, use a 53 foot wire.

The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot better 
than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially important 
because it is capacitively coupled to the ground. Ground resistance swamps any 
resonance.

I first heard about this antenna on this list. It was recommended by Wayne, 
N6KR. It is documented on page 9 of the instructions for the KXAT1 antenna 
tuner, “...for backpacking use on 40/30/20 meters, a wire length of 24-28 feet 
will generally provide good results. […] Ground system: Use a at least one 
ground radial, cut to at least 1/8th wavelength on the lowest band used (16' on 
40 meters). When possible, use two or more radials, with one cut to 1/4 
wavelength on each band."

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf 


There is similar advice on page 10 of the KX2 manual.

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner%27s%20man.pdf 


Finally, stop trying to think about “balanced” and “unbalanced” because those 
words are used in bizarre, inconsistent ways. Voltage, whether DC or RF, is 
always between two terminals. With a center-fed dipole, the two terminals are 
the elements. With this setup, the two terminals are the wire in the air and 
the wire on the ground.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 5:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> 
> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers. 
> 
> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using a 
> BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.  
> 
> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about 
> these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and the 
> wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments with 
> end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great 
> successes. 
> 
> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my 
> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't 
> recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my 
> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.Why does 
> this work?   :)
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood  > wrote:
> You can get a quick look at band conditions at 
> http://bandconditions.com  
> >
> 
> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if 
> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
> 
> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly to 
> the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29 feet 
> long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16 foot 
> wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the ATU tune 
> it and see you can hear.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my 
> blog)
> 
> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, 

Re: [Elecraft] Drone antenna launch Field portable! Changed topic.

[Richard Thorne]

John,

Just re-read your email, does the Phantom have an extra receiver slot?

I have a Chroma that's a few years old which would have plenty of lift 
for a wire antenna, I need to check to see if it has an extra receiver slot.


Rich - N5ZC

On 8/31/2017 8:11 AM, Richard Thorne wrote:

John,

Do use a separate receiver in order to activate the release or is 
there an extra slot on the drone receiver?


I'm assuming your using a bind - n - fly drone.  If it's home brew 
with your own receiver then it probably has a spare slot that you can 
program a switch to?


Rich - N5ZC

On 8/31/2017 7:54 AM, John AE5X wrote:

Here's what I use on my Phantom:

https://www.hobbyzone.com/radio-related/servo-related/accessories/efla405.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw557NBRC9ARIsAHJvVVPLFAokgDV7508h4v3RDV4nAUJpM3DmTknCizN8TLtUUmg0Xb9JSzIaAkHzEALw_wcB 



I'll make a video of it in antenna-installation action once we dry 
out a bit more from Harvey. Cheap and works quite well, tree height 
is not an issue.


John AE5X
http://ae5x.blogspot.com/


Jo Gaines Ends All The Rumors
mygreatdesigns.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/59a807517522d7517b6cst01vuc
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Re: [Elecraft] Drone antenna launch Field portable! Changed topic.

[Richard Thorne]

John,

Do use a separate receiver in order to activate the release or is there 
an extra slot on the drone receiver?


I'm assuming your using a bind - n - fly drone.  If it's home brew with 
your own receiver then it probably has a spare slot that you can program 
a switch to?


Rich - N5ZC

On 8/31/2017 7:54 AM, John AE5X wrote:

Here's what I use on my Phantom:

https://www.hobbyzone.com/radio-related/servo-related/accessories/efla405.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw557NBRC9ARIsAHJvVVPLFAokgDV7508h4v3RDV4nAUJpM3DmTknCizN8TLtUUmg0Xb9JSzIaAkHzEALw_wcB

I'll make a video of it in antenna-installation action once we dry out a bit 
more from Harvey. Cheap and works quite well, tree height is not an issue.

John AE5X
http://ae5x.blogspot.com/
  
  



Jo Gaines Ends All The Rumors
mygreatdesigns.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/59a807517522d7517b6cst01vuc
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[Elecraft] Drone antenna launch Field portable! Changed topic.

[John AE5X]

Here's what I use on my Phantom:

https://www.hobbyzone.com/radio-related/servo-related/accessories/efla405.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw557NBRC9ARIsAHJvVVPLFAokgDV7508h4v3RDV4nAUJpM3DmTknCizN8TLtUUmg0Xb9JSzIaAkHzEALw_wcB

I'll make a video of it in antenna-installation action once we dry out a bit 
more from Harvey. Cheap and works quite well, tree height is not an issue.

John AE5X
http://ae5x.blogspot.com/
 
 


Jo Gaines Ends All The Rumors
mygreatdesigns.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/59a807517522d7517b6cst01vuc
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[Elecraft] FS K3

[Paul VanOveren]

K3, #758
100 Watt Module
ATU  Automatic Antenna Tuner, provides 2nd Antenna input
Second Receiver, Identical to Primary Receiver
Digital I/O board, provides separate receive antenna input
DVR, Digital Voice Recorder
USB Upgraded boards.
2   5 pole 2.7 SSB Filters
2.  matching 5 pole 500 MHZ  CW  filters.
2,  matching 8 pole 250 MHZ  CW  filters.
All cables, manuals, and Fred Cady book.
Cosmetically  9/10
Non smoking environment
Shipping to CONUS only
$2400.00

NF8J
Paul VanOveren
Grand Rapids, MI  49321
616   541-3378
pauln...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Don Wilhelm]

Joseph,

Contact sales about the KAT1.  I have had official information that 
options will be available until the current supplies run out.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/30/2017 9:04 PM, Joseph M. Durnal wrote:


I'm going to try and finish it sooner than later.

Any chance that KAT1 is still available?


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Re: [Elecraft] K1 Discontinued

[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Agree Skip...
My son Jakub (15) is using his K1 mostly on receiving and learning CW and
what is funny > time to time he is able to hear DX sigs better then on my
K3... :) He is really proud to have his K1 because of that, hi.
73 - Petr, OK1RP



-
http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Dusting off the old K3 & Considering a KAT3A

[Jim Brown]

Please don't perpetuate that myth, Bill.  Tuners do NOT reduce the SWR 
unless they're at the antenna end of a transmission line. The SWR exists 
on the transmission line, and it is determined ENTIRELY by the match 
between the transmission line and the load.


What tuners at the rig do is get the rig to put power into the tuner 
(and hopefully, onto the transmission line).  If the SWR is high without 
the tuner, it is equally high WITH the tuner. Depending on the cable, 
the frequency, and the SWR, much of the power that the rig puts into the 
tuner gets to the transmission line, but is turned into heat by the SWR 
in the line and doesn't get to the antenna.


A better way to talk and think about this is to say that the tuner can 
match a wide variety of loads to the transmitter sufficiently well that 
the rig can pump the maximum power from its output terminals, whether 
it's feeding a short wet string or a nice long wire we've launched into 
a tree. And if there's no transmission line, SWR has no meaning!  So SWR 
is the wrong way to talk and think about it.


73, Jim K9YC

On 8/30/2017 10:15 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
My experience with the tuners in both the K3 and KX3 are that they 
will reach an acceptable SWR with anything. I always check the antenna 
when they take a long time to reach a match. (I.e. lots of clicking.) 
Most of the time I find I am trying to match an open antenna connection. 



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