[Elecraft] FS : KX3 and Accesories KG6VDW

[Jon Moody]

The KX3 has been spoken for.

73
KG6VDW
Jon
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[Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Report

[kevinr]

Good Evening,

    QSB was everywhere.  ESP one moment S5 the next.  S3 to S7 was 
pretty normal.  And the every present hiss with a few whistlers.  But it 
was nice to hear spring is coming to at least a few of us.  40 meters 
was open to at least Kentucky but that was an ESP contact more often 
than not.  Good thing I knew who it was :)



  On 14050 kHz at 2200:

NO8V - John - MI

K6XK - Roy - IA

W0CZ - Ken - ND

K4TO - Dave - KY

W5RG - Bob - FL


  On 7045 kHz at z:

K0DTJ - Brian - CA

K6PJV - Dale - CA

K6XK - Roy - IA

W6JHB - Jim - CA

K4TO - Dave - KY

W0CZ - Ken - ND


Now to enjoy some of this sun.  It's pretty bright out there with all 
the snow.  When it hit the trees this morning they unloaded all of last 
night's new snow.  Where there was a foot of snow there is now about 
four inches.  At this rate there may be some flooding down below.  The 
birds did appreciate getting fed.  The Steller's Jays were actually 
joining the crowd of Gray Jays. Normally they are pretty skittish but 
hunger has a way of changing one's attitudes.  It did get quite noisy 
with them all after the one open part of my deck.


   See you again next week

 73,

    Kevin.  KD5ONS


-



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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation

[Edward R Cole]

I had to take a two-week NASA soldering school when I began work at 
Goldstone Tracking Facility in the Mojave Desert in 1971.  Components 
were all thru-hole back then.  A lot of years have passed since them 
but as I recall we bent the leads after insertion, soldered, and 
trimmed flush.  I forgot the part about making turns around solder 
posts (gold).  I remember all dc wiring was white teflon and we used 
thermal strippers.  All wire looms had the wires run perfectly 
parallel and tied (before tywraps).  Very time stacking process and 
then QA inspected with 6x magnifiers.  Anything "not perfect" had to 
be done again.


I worked on equipment used in the tracking stations.  All had to pass 
same requirements as space-rated stuff (going into space).  We had a 
full machine shop along with Master Mechinist.  I would draw up what 
I needed as an enclosure and he would mill one from a block of 
aluminum.  He showed me how to drill and tap holes.  Also how to make 
waveguide.  After being machined they were sent out for gold plating 
(every one).  They wanted a MTBF in the order of years.


I designed and built a fast shutdown (crowbar) for a TWT to take 
1000v to ground in 30ms.  The TWT were subject to RF arcing in the 
waveguide and you needed to have them shutdown before the arc reached 
the tube (think a photocell detector was used). It ran faultless for 
over 20-years in temps from -10F to +150F.  I worked in the MTF 
(Microwave Test Facility) building prototypes of new equipment.  It 
was fun!  lots of stories


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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[Elecraft] FS : KX3 and Accesories KG6VDW

[Jon Moody]

Greetings fellow Elecrafters,

I have for sale a mint condition KX3 serial number 84xx purchased in 2015
factory assemble.

It includes the following options :

1) KXFL3 - Dual Bandwidth Filter.

2) KXAT3-F – Internal 20 Watt Antenna Tuner.

3) KXBC3 – NiMH Battery holder and Charger.


And includes the following accessories :

1) KX3-PCKT – Complete set of cables for connecting to computers.

2) MH3 – Handheld microphone.

3) XG-50 – Frequency Reference for Setting KX3 Filters


I will also include the following additional accessories :

1) KXUSB Additional cable for a total of 2.

2) Additional cable E980232 Key line out and ACC2 for a total of 2.

3) Misc Accessories such as third party heat sinks (never installed)  never
found that they were needed.


Also includes all original shipping boxes, all original sales receipts and
all original manuals. The documentation is in perfect condition. The KX3
has third party side panels along with the plastic cover. The original
Elecraft side panels are included. The third party side panels and clear
plastic cover have been used since purchasing the KX3 so the KX3 looks like
new with no scratches. The KX3 has only been used as a base station in a
non smoking environment and has never been used outside.


The original purchase price was $1519.65 and current price would be over
$1700 even with the recent sale that is going on. I am asking $1200 and
payment by Pay Pal. I will pay standard shipping anywhere in the US. If you
want it shipped faster than you pay the difference.


This is a GREAT radio and anyone that purchases it will be quite happy with
it. Everything works as expected and it has the latest Elecraft firmware
installed.



73

Jon

KG6VDW
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Re: [Elecraft] NG7M / 2 Videos on FSK RTTY timings generated with EXTFSK/64 on new and older PC's via USB FTDI Com Ports

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - let's end the thread now in the interest of reducing list email 
overload (and argument overload) for others. Please take the it off-list.  

73,

Eric
Mooderator
elecraft.com
_..._



> On Mar 25, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 3/25/2018 4:37 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>> 
>> So I agree Joe, as often as you're spot on, that your data may be a
>> bit dated on this topic. I'm positive I'm not the only one using more
>> than a dual core CPU in the station as most of the software these
>> days (if not the OS) requires better performance. A dual core for ham
>> stations these days is self-flagellation.
> Rick, A dual core system for amateur use may be self-flagellation but I
> receive customer support e-mail on a regular basis from users with that
> level of system or even Celeron and Atom based systems.  The point is
> that those low end systems *are* in regular use and one can't make
> blanket statements that EXTFSK is no problem based on a few scope
> pictures made with a six core, 5 GHz clock CPU.
> 
>> Jitter is a documentable problem, it exists for a variety of reasons (not 
>> always the path used to transfer data), some of which are not resolvable 
>> unless taken to extreme measures. In severe cases, a move
>> to AFSK is an acceptable alternative and easily managed.
> 
> Yes, proper choice of environment (minimizing the number of processes)
> can make less capable CPUs usable.  However, that generally means using
> AFSK instead of EXTFSK as well as being judicious with other issues
> (like software panadapters and limiting spot rates).
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
>> On 3/25/2018 4:37 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
>>> On 3/25/2018 12:15 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>> 
>>> Even today the number/percentage of amateurs using liquid cooled, hex core 
>>> 3 GHz i7
>>> processors like you used for your first "demonstration" is exceedingly
>>> small.  As I have told you multiple times, based on my support work
>>> the average amateur system is something like an 2.4 GHz Core2Duo with
>>> 1 - 4 GB of RAM and typically a single USB Root Hub to serve CAT, CW,
>>> FSK, digital sound card, *and* software panadapter.
>>> 
>>> *NONE* of your demonstrations showed that level of system under *FULL*
>>> load.  Your first demonstration may have been running rig control and
>>> software panadapter but it wasn't processing a cluster feed at contest
>>> rates (your panadapter was clearly visible with only one or two signals
>>> on the band) and your CPU did not exceed roughly 40% utilization. Your
>>> second demonstration did not include rig control, panadapter or cluster
>>> yet by, your own measurements, had more than 10% *per bit* jitter which
>>> is enough according to Chen to reduce SNR by several dB.
>> Joe, I suspect you're selling the ham community short.  While 'thrifty' (ok, 
>> most hams are just plain cheap but it IS a hobby in a world of life issues) 
>> there is a LOT of computing power available in the used market. One can pick 
>> up an I-5/6/7 for a pittance and memory is dirt cheap.
>> I guess I'm on the bleeding edge for once.  A couple years ago I assembled a 
>> system specifically FOR the station; it's wasn't free but it also didn't 
>> break the bank.  It's a 4 GHz (slightly overclocked to 4.3 GHz and air 
>> cooled) I-7 with 32 GB of ram and the C: drive is a 520 GB SSD M3 chip 
>> mounted on the mboard (multiple data paths).
>> NOTHING slows it down (although Windows tries), as intended.  I've only 
>> found one ham program that actually causes load levels to rise but it's 
>> short duration and never maxed out.  It wasn't a repurposed system, it was 
>> created to last a long time.  Not even Photoshop causes a stutter (and that 
>> is a demanding suite of software).
>> It also captures weather data, produces a live wx web page, collects images 
>> from 4 critters cams and puts that on another live video web page, along 
>> with the usual mundane tasks like email and browsing. (What I DO need is 
>> fast Internet but I didn't move to North Idaho for the Internet ;-) )
>> I use 'real' serial ports, not USB for station control and FSK data. It's 
>> all in the details.  I've had poor performance from USB not from path 
>> overload but because it's sensitive to RFI at the worst moments; serial is 
>> more bullet proof.
>> So I agree Joe, as often as you're spot on, that your data may be a bit 
>> dated on this topic.  I'm positive I'm not the only one using more than a 
>> dual core CPU in the station as most of the software these days (if not the 
>> OS) requires better performance.  A dual core for ham stations these days is 
>> self-flagellation.  My only use for one is to play music into the home 
>> theater, Skype with the family gathered or stream web based video on the 
>> large flat screen.  Every tool has a use but the days of dual core for 
>> stations are long over.
>> Jitter is a documentable problem, it exists for a variety of reasons (not 

Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft CW Net Announcement

[Fred Jensen]

Indeed.  Westbound out of Reno NV, the CA state line isn't very far.  
Just before it is the Gold Ranch Casino, a last chance just in case you 
haven't paid all the NV taxes on out-of-staters.  It is where they close 
I-80 WB when the snow gets too heavy for the plows.  Many in-vehicle GPS 
navigation systems will whisper to you about a short cut that isn't ever 
closed.  It leads through the little hamlet of Verdi NV, and then 
meanders off to nowhere.  Periodically a string of vehicles will get 
stuck out in nowhere.  They warn about it on TV but who has TV in their 
truck?


I'll see if I can hear you on 40 from home on my HOA-Stealth antenna.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County


On 3/24/2018 8:20 PM, kevinr wrote:

Good Evening,

There was a knock on my front door.  I looked out the window only to 
find a Washington County Deputy Sheriff in a very dirty uniform.  I 
opened the door and invited him in to wash up but he smiled ruefully 
and refused. So I walked out on the deck and handed him my garden 
hose.  As he washed off some of the mud and clay he started to 
explain.   He had been chasing some miscreant when they came up into 
our labyrinth of dead end roads.  He told me he followed where his GPS 
told him to go. I could not help but chuckle.  GPS can’t tell you 
where to go, it can only tell you where you are.  A compass and an up 
to date map are far more effective tools.


Just by looking at him I could tell which road he had gotten stuck in 
near my house.  The 4WD folks from the area love to go out in groups 
and drive a certain road and get themselves mired up to their axles.  
They travel in groups so they can pull each other out.   He agreed to 
the location and asked me for help.  My F250 was in use and not 
available.  So I called my neighbor.  A third generation native who 
knows the elk by name.  I told him the story, he laughed, and said 
give him ten minutes.  I relayed the information to the deputy and we 
sat on the deck to wait.   When my neighbor showed up I asked him to 
help the deputy find his way around our mountain roads.  He was more 
than willing to help.  The deputy came by a few days later in a much 
cleaner uniform and thanked me.  He told me my neighbor took a few 
hours and showed him which roads were passable and which were not.  
The moral of the story: don’t trust where your GPS tells you to go.


Propagation has been approved by Wayne himself.  Cool.  The solar wind 
does have something to do with it too.  There may be some hiss and 
some odd whistling noises but that is part of the fun.


Please join us tomorrow on:

14050 kHz at 2200z Sunday (3 PM PDT Sunday)
  7045 kHz at z Monday (5 PM PDT Sunday)

73,
Kevin. KD5ONS

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--
This message has been scanned by E.F.A. Project and is believed to be 
clean.





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Re: [Elecraft] NG7M / 2 Videos on FSK RTTY timings generated with EXTFSK/64 on new and older PC's via USB FTDI Com Ports

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 3/25/2018 4:37 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:


So I agree Joe, as often as you're spot on, that your data may be a
bit dated on this topic. I'm positive I'm not the only one using more
than a dual core CPU in the station as most of the software these
days (if not the OS) requires better performance. A dual core for ham
stations these days is self-flagellation.

Rick, A dual core system for amateur use may be self-flagellation but I
receive customer support e-mail on a regular basis from users with that
level of system or even Celeron and Atom based systems.  The point is
that those low end systems *are* in regular use and one can't make
blanket statements that EXTFSK is no problem based on a few scope
pictures made with a six core, 5 GHz clock CPU.

Jitter is a documentable problem, it exists for a variety of reasons 
(not always the path used to transfer data), some of which are not 
resolvable unless taken to extreme measures. In severe cases, a move

to AFSK is an acceptable alternative and easily managed.


Yes, proper choice of environment (minimizing the number of processes)
can make less capable CPUs usable.  However, that generally means using
AFSK instead of EXTFSK as well as being judicious with other issues
(like software panadapters and limiting spot rates).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 3/25/2018 4:37 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:



On 3/25/2018 12:15 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


Even today the number/percentage of amateurs using liquid cooled, hex 
core 3 GHz i7

processors like you used for your first "demonstration" is exceedingly
small.  As I have told you multiple times, based on my support work
the average amateur system is something like an 2.4 GHz Core2Duo with
1 - 4 GB of RAM and typically a single USB Root Hub to serve CAT, CW,
FSK, digital sound card, *and* software panadapter.

*NONE* of your demonstrations showed that level of system under *FULL*
load.  Your first demonstration may have been running rig control and
software panadapter but it wasn't processing a cluster feed at contest
rates (your panadapter was clearly visible with only one or two signals
on the band) and your CPU did not exceed roughly 40% utilization. Your
second demonstration did not include rig control, panadapter or cluster
yet by, your own measurements, had more than 10% *per bit* jitter which
is enough according to Chen to reduce SNR by several dB.


Joe, I suspect you're selling the ham community short.  While 'thrifty' 
(ok, most hams are just plain cheap but it IS a hobby in a world of life 
issues) there is a LOT of computing power available in the used market. 
One can pick up an I-5/6/7 for a pittance and memory is dirt cheap.


I guess I'm on the bleeding edge for once.  A couple years ago I 
assembled a system specifically FOR the station; it's wasn't free but it 
also didn't break the bank.  It's a 4 GHz (slightly overclocked to 4.3 
GHz and air cooled) I-7 with 32 GB of ram and the C: drive is a 520 GB 
SSD M3 chip mounted on the mboard (multiple data paths).


NOTHING slows it down (although Windows tries), as intended.  I've only 
found one ham program that actually causes load levels to rise but it's 
short duration and never maxed out.  It wasn't a repurposed system, it 
was created to last a long time.  Not even Photoshop causes a stutter 
(and that is a demanding suite of software).


It also captures weather data, produces a live wx web page, collects 
images from 4 critters cams and puts that on another live video web 
page, along with the usual mundane tasks like email and browsing. (What 
I DO need is fast Internet but I didn't move to North Idaho for the 
Internet ;-) )


I use 'real' serial ports, not USB for station control and FSK data. 
It's all in the details.  I've had poor performance from USB not from 
path overload but because it's sensitive to RFI at the worst moments; 
serial is more bullet proof.


So I agree Joe, as often as you're spot on, that your data may be a bit 
dated on this topic.  I'm positive I'm not the only one using more than 
a dual core CPU in the station as most of the software these days (if 
not the OS) requires better performance.  A dual core for ham stations 
these days is self-flagellation.  My only use for one is to play music 
into the home theater, Skype with the family gathered or stream web 
based video on the large flat screen.  Every tool has a use but the days 
of dual core for stations are long over.


Jitter is a documentable problem, it exists for a variety of reasons 
(not always the path used to transfer data), some of which are not 
resolvable unless taken to extreme measures.  In severe cases, a move to 
AFSK is an acceptable alternative and easily managed.


Let's move on and end this thread please.

Rick nhc

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Re: [Elecraft] NG7M / 2 Videos on FSK RTTY timings generated with EXTFSK/64 on new and older PC's via USB FTDI Com Ports

[Jim Brown]

On 3/25/2018 1:37 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
Joe, I suspect you're selling the ham community short.  While 
'thrifty' (ok, most hams are just plain cheap but it IS a hobby in a 
world of life issues) there is a LOT of computing power available in 
the used market.  One can pick up an I-5/6/7 for a pittance and memory 
is dirt cheap. 


Hi Rick,

Since Joe is the guy who answers customer support calls for the line of 
products he distributes, I suspect that he may have a much more 
realistic read on the computer power used by hams and how 
"computer-savvy" we are. And I also suspect it's a fairly wide range in 
both.


For years, I got away with 8-10 year old top-quality laptops (retired 
from my small consulting biz) in my ham station, and to run SO2R RTTY, I 
dedicated one to each radio. A few years ago, I bought a modern biz 
laptop with a fast i7, and ever since I've run both radios from it. I 
found that I DID need to add RAM to allow full bandwidth decodes of MSK144.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[N2TK, Tony]

Mark,
Does IPC-610 also cover automotive products?
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mark Goldberg
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:20 PM
To: Elecraft Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

For commercial products, there is IPC-610. That is 400+ pages of
descriptions of how to determine acceptability of and  build electronic
assemblies. It has very clear explanations and lots of pictures and diagrams
of right and wrong ways to do things.

Unfortunately, you may have to pay to get a copy. There are also a whole
series of more specific specification documents for certain operations, but
IPC-610 will have most of what you need to know. At least, it is what I look
at first.

Section 7.3.5.9 allows trimming after soldering if the trimming does not
damage the solder. For certain classes of products, a visual inspection at
10X is required. Reflowing after cutting is also acceptable instead of
inspection. I believe there are special trimmers that minimize shock during
the trimming process.

I attempt to follow IPC-610, although my skills may not be fully up to the
task. At least I know where I fall short.

73,

Mark
W7MLG


On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, Mark Petrovic 
wrote:

> While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly 
> instructions, I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and 
> capacitor leads before soldering.  I'm intrigued by this, and wonder 
> if someone who uses this technique can share their experiences. Do you 
> the solder the component from the top of the board or bottom?  How do 
> you keep the component in place during soldering?  I am assuming the 
> value of this technique is in the resulting lower profile of the
components on the backside of the board.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Mark
> AE6RT
>
> --
> Mark
> __
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> marklgoldb...@gmail.com
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Mark Goldberg]

For commercial products, there is IPC-610. That is 400+ pages of
descriptions of how to determine acceptability of and  build electronic
assemblies. It has very clear explanations and lots of pictures and
diagrams of right and wrong ways to do things.

Unfortunately, you may have to pay to get a copy. There are also a whole
series of more specific specification documents for certain operations, but
IPC-610 will have most of what you need to know. At least, it is what I
look at first.

Section 7.3.5.9 allows trimming after soldering if the trimming does not
damage the solder. For certain classes of products, a visual inspection at
10X is required. Reflowing after cutting is also acceptable instead of
inspection. I believe there are special trimmers that minimize shock during
the trimming process.

I attempt to follow IPC-610, although my skills may not be fully up to the
task. At least I know where I fall short.

73,

Mark
W7MLG


On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, Mark Petrovic 
wrote:

> While reading through my new K2 kit's control board assembly instructions,
> I see that some builders prefer to trim the resistor and capacitor leads
> before soldering.  I'm intrigued by this, and wonder if someone who uses
> this technique can share their experiences. Do you the solder the component
> from the top of the board or bottom?  How do you keep the component in
> place during soldering?  I am assuming the value of this technique is in
> the resulting lower profile of the components on the backside of the board.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Mark
> AE6RT
>
> --
> Mark
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to marklgoldb...@gmail.com
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Charlie T]

I only use "non-GMO enhanced" solder that is free-ranged.

Also, only natural lead & pure tin mined by hand without polluting equipment is 
used with rosin (flux) from contented pine trees that have at least one wild 
endangered species bird nest in it.

73, Charlie k3ICH


 




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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Bill Johnson]

I use a Hakko 936, wrist strap and 700 degrees F. Very small tip and Kester 
.015.  I have used larger including a Radio shack el cheapo and much larger 
solder when I built my K2 #35 in Circa 1999.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc.

From: Mel Farrer 
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:35 PM
To: Bill Johnson 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
before or after soldering?

I do also carefully reflow..  Don't what any popping loose.  Usually with a 
finger on the part.  Wrist strap on of course.

Mel, K6KBE


From: Bill Johnson >
To:
Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
before or after soldering?

I populate, solder, cut, re-solder.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> On 
Behalf Of Nr4c
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:08 PM
To: hawley, charles j jr >
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; JEROME SODUS 
>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
before or after soldering?

And trimming before soldering allows the exposed copper “end” of the lead to be 
coated with solder thus eliminating corrosion to the bare copper.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:05 PM, hawley, charles j jr 
> > wrote:
>
> That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never 
> cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can 
> see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not 
> going to be able to fix it should it ever happen.
>
> Chuck Hawley
> c-haw...@illinois.edu
>
> Amateur Radio, KE9UW
> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles
> 
> From: 
> elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] 
> on behalf of JEROME SODUS
> [jso...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
> before or after soldering?
>
> About Message#15 copied below
>
> Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the 
> soldered connection left undisturbed.
>
> If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a 
> verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened 
> again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.
>
> So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before 
> doing the final soldering.
>
> 73 Jerry KM3K
>
>
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
> From: Bill Johnson >
> To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" 
> >, 'Mark Petrovic'
> >, 
> "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"
> >
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
> techniques: trim before or after soldering?
> Message-ID:
> 
> LOOK.COM>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both 
> sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to 
> hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush 
> cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before 
> soldering.
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

I do also carefully reflow..  Don't what any popping loose.  Usually with a 
finger on the part.  Wrist strap on of course.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Bill Johnson 
 To: 
Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
 Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 2:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
before or after soldering?
   
I populate, solder, cut, re-solder.  

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Nr4c
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:08 PM
To: hawley, charles j jr 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; JEROME SODUS 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
before or after soldering?

And trimming before soldering allows the exposed copper “end” of the lead to be 
coated with solder thus eliminating corrosion to the bare copper. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:05 PM, hawley, charles j jr  
> wrote:
> 
> That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never 
> cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can 
> see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not 
> going to be able to fix it should it ever happen.
> 
> Chuck Hawley
> c-haw...@illinois.edu
> 
> Amateur Radio, KE9UW
> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles
> 
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on behalf of JEROME SODUS 
> [jso...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
> before or after soldering?
> 
> About Message#15 copied below
> 
> Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the 
> soldered connection left undisturbed.
> 
> If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a 
> verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened 
> again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.
> 
> So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before 
> doing the final soldering.
> 
> 73 Jerry KM3K
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
> From: Bill Johnson 
> To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
> , "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"
> 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
> techniques: trim before or after soldering?
> Message-ID:
>  LOOK.COM>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both 
> sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to 
> hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush 
> cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before 
> soldering.
> 

__
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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Bill Johnson]

I populate, solder, cut, re-solder.  

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Nr4c
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:08 PM
To: hawley, charles j jr 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; JEROME SODUS 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
before or after soldering?

And trimming before soldering allows the exposed copper “end” of the lead to be 
coated with solder thus eliminating corrosion to the bare copper. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:05 PM, hawley, charles j jr  
> wrote:
> 
> That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never 
> cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can 
> see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not 
> going to be able to fix it should it ever happen.
> 
> Chuck Hawley
> c-haw...@illinois.edu
> 
> Amateur Radio, KE9UW
> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles
> 
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on behalf of JEROME SODUS 
> [jso...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
> before or after soldering?
> 
> About Message#15 copied below
> 
> Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the 
> soldered connection left undisturbed.
> 
> If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a 
> verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened 
> again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.
> 
> So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before 
> doing the final soldering.
> 
> 73 Jerry KM3K
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
> From: Bill Johnson 
> To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
> , "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"
> 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
> techniques: trim before or after soldering?
> Message-ID:
>  LOOK.COM>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both 
> sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to 
> hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush 
> cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before 
> soldering.
> 

__
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Re: [Elecraft] No audio

[Nr4c]

Mic bias???

Did you plug in the SPEAKER?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:18 PM, Robert  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Since a few days I have a problem with the audio of my K3.
> 
> All normal settings are oke, but still no audio, even not with a
> hand microphone.
> 
> TX is working normal.
> 
> = Mic sel : FP.H - high
> = Mic level : 20
> = CMP level : 20
> 
> I have been searching the reflector to find if someone had this
> problem before also, but so far not found.
> 
> The problem seem to be started, after I installed the subreceiver.
> 
> CW and RTTY tone are oke.
> 
> PD7RB Robert
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Nr4c]

And trimming before soldering allows the exposed copper “end” of the lead to be 
coated with solder thus eliminating corrosion to the bare copper. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 25, 2018, at 2:05 PM, hawley, charles j jr  
> wrote:
> 
> That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never 
> cracked a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can 
> see how it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not 
> going to be able to fix it should it ever happen.
> 
> Chuck Hawley
> c-haw...@illinois.edu
> 
> Amateur Radio, KE9UW
> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles
> 
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
> behalf of JEROME SODUS [jso...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
> before or after soldering?
> 
> About Message#15 copied below
> 
> Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the 
> soldered connection left undisturbed.
> 
> If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a 
> verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened 
> again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.
> 
> So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before 
> doing the final soldering.
> 
> 73 Jerry KM3K
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
> From: Bill Johnson 
> To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
> , "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"
> 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
> techniques: trim before or after soldering?
> Message-ID:
> 
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both 
> sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to 
> hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush 
> cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before 
> soldering.
> 

__
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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[N2TK, Tony]

Jim,
There is actually a way to have your cake and eat it too. Supply the surface
mount parts or parts with leads with gold solder pads or leads. Most space
parts come this way anyways. These meet RoHS. Prior to mounting on the
boards use hot solder pot with SnPb solder to displace the gold (usually a
two pot process). But this causes its own set of problems.
Many space parts suppliers now offer a hot solder dip service with SnPb
(Tin/Lead) solder.
Usually the only place RoHS is mentioned is with Europe. But the space
community gets a dispensation in regards to using lead solder (SnPb). No one
wants to take a chance with whiskers in space. And it is amazing how fast
they can grow without an atmosphere. SnPb also now applies to most things
that fly real high, not just satellites.

It is common practice to use a clear conformal coating over the board. That
slows down the whisker process somewhat, especially if you play with
topology. Try repairing that board. 

Most satellites are designed for a 15 year lifetime. So whiskers are a big
issue. There are exceptions to that with some of the latest commercial
constellations. 
Microsats (10cm cube (1U) to several "U's") have a very short lifetime
(hours to a couple months) usually don't worry about whiskers or radiation
issues, so far.

It is amazing how long a pound of good SnPb solder will last. It is a good
investment.

Sorry for all the bandwidth and straying.
N2TK, Tony


-Original Message-
From: James F. Boehner MD [mailto:jboehne...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 2:10 PM
To: 'N2TK, Tony' ; 'Doug Renwick' ;
'JEROME SODUS' ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or
after soldering?

Tony,

Thanks for the very detailed explanation.  I know we are stressing the
moderators with these somewhat OT postings, but I have learned something
today.

Your note about lead in solder is very apropos.  I know that NASA is not
wanting to have solder "whiskers" in any of their critical space equipment:

https://nepp.nasa.gov/Whisker/background/index.htm 

I usually hunt down tin/lead solder at Hamfests.  When I'm asked why I'm
risking lead exposure when soldering, I quote a line from one of our former
Presidents:  "I don't inhale"!

Thanks for the great discussion!

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:58 PM
To: 'Doug Renwick'; 'James F. Boehner MD'; 'JEROME SODUS';
Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

Hi Jim,
Doug is correct about military and space work. All parts are precut or have
spacers installed prior to board mounting. Between flux, solder/flux and
mechanical means the parts are held in place until the reflow oven. For some
programs, boards are not allowed to be reworked. Some programs allow rework.
There is a very detailed procedure for reworking a board - MIL-PRF-38535 and
MIL-STD-883.

But, our applications and most commercial applications do not see the
stress, temperature range or vibration that some of these mil and space
boards see. So, for most of us bending the leads to hold the part, solder
and cut is fine. You can re-solder after cutting to be sure.  

Years ago at a NASA meeting, they were told you do not need a tool meeting
MIL-STD and MIL-PRF to make a board that meets those specs. So, have the
right solder and right temp on the soldering tool and the right tip and make
a nice flowing shiny solder connection. 
By the way, military space solder is not RoHS compliant. There will be lead
in the solder.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug Renwick
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:05 PM
To: 'James F. Boehner MD' ; 'JEROME SODUS'
; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

Heathkit recommended the "bad practice" saying "solder the leads to the foil
and cut off the excess lead lengths". Reprimanding a technician for doing
this is insane.
Doug

"Political correctness is a weapon used to silence people who tell the
truth" - Ayaan Hirsi Ali 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James F. Boehner MD
via Elecraft
Sent: March-25-18 9:33 AM
To: 'JEROME SODUS'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques:
trimbefore or after soldering?

Jerome,

Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were Heathkit
and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
spreading the leads, soldering, and 

Re: [Elecraft] NG7M / 2 Videos on FSK RTTY timings generated with EXTFSK/64 on new and older PC's via USB FTDI Com Ports

[Rick WA6NHC]

On 3/25/2018 12:15 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


Even today the number/percentage of amateurs using liquid cooled, hex 
core 3 GHz i7

processors like you used for your first "demonstration" is exceedingly
small.  As I have told you multiple times, based on my support work
the average amateur system is something like an 2.4 GHz Core2Duo with
1 - 4 GB of RAM and typically a single USB Root Hub to serve CAT, CW,
FSK, digital sound card, *and* software panadapter.

*NONE* of your demonstrations showed that level of system under *FULL*
load.  Your first demonstration may have been running rig control and
software panadapter but it wasn't processing a cluster feed at contest
rates (your panadapter was clearly visible with only one or two signals
on the band) and your CPU did not exceed roughly 40% utilization. Your
second demonstration did not include rig control, panadapter or cluster
yet by, your own measurements, had more than 10% *per bit* jitter which
is enough according to Chen to reduce SNR by several dB.


Joe, I suspect you're selling the ham community short.  While 'thrifty' 
(ok, most hams are just plain cheap but it IS a hobby in a world of life 
issues) there is a LOT of computing power available in the used market.  
One can pick up an I-5/6/7 for a pittance and memory is dirt cheap.


I guess I'm on the bleeding edge for once.  A couple years ago I 
assembled a system specifically FOR the station; it's wasn't free but it 
also didn't break the bank.  It's a 4 GHz (slightly overclocked to 4.3 
GHz and air cooled) I-7 with 32 GB of ram and the C: drive is a 520 GB 
SSD M3 chip mounted on the mboard (multiple data paths).


NOTHING slows it down (although Windows tries), as intended.  I've only 
found one ham program that actually causes load levels to rise but it's 
short duration and never maxed out.  It wasn't a repurposed system, it 
was created to last a long time.  Not even Photoshop causes a stutter 
(and that is a demanding suite of software).


It also captures weather data, produces a live wx web page, collects 
images from 4 critters cams and puts that on another live video web 
page, along with the usual mundane tasks like email and browsing. (What 
I DO need is fast Internet but I didn't move to North Idaho for the 
Internet ;-) )


I use 'real' serial ports, not USB for station control and FSK data.  
It's all in the details.  I've had poor performance from USB not from 
path overload but because it's sensitive to RFI at the worst moments; 
serial is more bullet proof.


So I agree Joe, as often as you're spot on, that your data may be a bit 
dated on this topic.  I'm positive I'm not the only one using more than 
a dual core CPU in the station as most of the software these days (if 
not the OS) requires better performance.  A dual core for ham stations 
these days is self-flagellation.  My only use for one is to play music 
into the home theater, Skype with the family gathered or stream web 
based video on the large flat screen.  Every tool has a use but the days 
of dual core for stations are long over.


Jitter is a documentable problem, it exists for a variety of reasons 
(not always the path used to transfer data), some of which are not 
resolvable unless taken to extreme measures.  In severe cases, a move to 
AFSK is an acceptable alternative and easily managed.


Let's move on and end this thread please.

Rick nhc

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[Elecraft] OT: Seeking collaborator on 20 m, 5 dBi, 9 foot radius, 2 pound antenna system

[Wayne Burdick]

If like me you’ve spent too much time thinking about this subject already, 
*and* you’re a whiz with Mini-NEC, please contact me off-list.

Wayne
N6KR


http://www.elecraft.c
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Re: [Elecraft] NG7M / 2 Videos on FSK RTTY timings generated with EXTFSK/64 on new and older PC's via USB FTDI Com Ports

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 3/25/2018 1:25 PM, M. George wrote:
Joe, your 2010 data (which you haven't looked up and provided, but I 
assume exists? from 8 years ago) isn't a good comparison to changes 
at the OS, CPU / hardware level between 2010 and 2018. You are very

good at telling everyone the way things are, but not very good at
showing folks the way things are / work with actual experiments and
data / video.

1) I don't need to "look up" that data ... it exists in the RTTY
archives for those who haven't already seen it *and* participated in
discussions of the issues with jitter when using software generated
FSK.

2) The issue of jitter is just as important today as it was eight years
ago as it causes the same loss of signal to noise ratio as Chen takes
very great care to explain to you on the RTTY list.  Even today the
number/percentage of amateurs using liquid cooled, hex core 3 GHz i7
processors like you used for your first "demonstration" is exceedingly
small.  As I have told you multiple times, based on my support work
the average amateur system is something like an 2.4 GHz Core2Duo with
1 - 4 GB of RAM and typically a single USB Root Hub to serve CAT, CW,
FSK, digital sound card, *and* software panadapter.

*NONE* of your demonstrations showed that level of system under *FULL*
load.  Your first demonstration may have been running rig control and
software panadapter but it wasn't processing a cluster feed at contest
rates (your panadapter was clearly visible with only one or two signals
on the band) and your CPU did not exceed roughly 40% utilization.  Your
second demonstration did not include rig control, panadapter or cluster
yet by, your own measurements, had more than 10% *per bit* jitter which
is enough according to Chen to reduce SNR by several dB.


In the 2017 CQWWRTTY contest (using a 5 year old Ivy Bridge i7 Intel
cpu) with my K3S / internal FSK keyed by the same FTDI serial
interface in my video presented this last week, I'm shocked I was
able to work 1285 QSO's and 184 band countries.

You're far enough out on the advanced end of the CPU curve that you can
get away with software FSK and work plenty of strong stations.  JA7UDE
made jitter measurements 
with EXTFSK64 using an Ivy Bridge i7-3770 which showed 75 baud jitter
at +/-40 uSec in a lightly loaded system, increasing to -67/+340 uSec
when the USB system was loaded by data transfer.  Oba also reported
EXTFSK on that same lightly loaded system at +/- 50 uSec (similar to
your lightly loaded liquid cooled system).

Again, jitter is not a significant issue isn't with software FSK on high
spec CPUs with light CPU loading and dedicated USB Root Hubs ... it is
the +/- 4 msec jitter that is typical on slower, dual core systems, a
single USB Root hub and heavy processor/USB loading.

You do a disservice by insisting that jitter is not a problem because
*it doesn't reach a critical level* on your high end computing
platforms.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 3/25/2018 1:25 PM, M. George wrote:

Joe, your 2010 data (which you haven't looked up and provided, but I assume
exists? from 8 years ago) isn't a good comparison to changes at the OS, CPU
/ hardware level between 2010 and 2018.  You are very good at telling
everyone the way things are, but not very good at showing folks the way
things are / work with actual experiments and data / video.

This exercise isn't productive until you actually watch all of my content
and start reproducing my results on a scope etc... If you are not willing
to do that in 2018 with your own equipment and continue to rely on
microHam's numbers from 2010... (or someone else's data) There is no point
to the discussion.  A lot has changed since 2010.  Plus I made it crystal
clear in my video that my main computer setup is much faster than most
other Ham shack computers at the moment (2018). You act like I expected
everyone to have the same setup... which clearly shows that you cherry
picked sections out of the video to confirm your preconceived conclusions
before every clicking on the video links.  You insist on leaving out all
the detail provided in the Video, because it can't be conveyed via a few
paragraphs of text in an email.

As usual, (which is well known), you will get the last word in... Until you
produce something new for 2018, a response from myself isn't productive at
all.  And will not take place.  For now I'll let my video speak to the
experiment and 2018 current state of what I recorded.  As I do other tests
and present other findings, I will be willing to change my
understanding/conjecture/opinion based on data collected and presented.

In the 2017 CQWWRTTY contest (using a 5 year old Ivy Bridge i7 Intel cpu)
with my K3S / internal FSK keyed by the same FTDI serial interface in my
video presented this last week, I'm shocked I was able to work 1285 QSO's
and 184 band countries.  My FSK generated signal on the other end of the
QSO's must have been horrible with this setup (jitter 

Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[David Gilbert]

I've soldered a LOT of components to circuit boards and I've always cut 
the leads prior to soldering.


I insert the component and flip the board over to see which direction 
the runs go from the lead.  I bend the lead in the direction of the run, 
which serves the purpose of holding the component in place while I 
insert more components and do the same to them.  Once I have several 
components installed I trim all the leads and solder them.


For me, this serves more than one purpose.

1.  It holds the part securely in place prior to soldering.
2.  The wire is pressed against the inside edge of the pad, which 
facilitates solder flow at the connection.
3.  I can get the tip of the soldering iron closer to the joint between 
the lead and the pad by putting it opposite the direction the lead was bent.
4.  It results in a MUCH lower profile on the back side of the board ... 
which means less chance of something shorting in tight spaces.
5.  I can more easily determine a bad solder joint.  If the solder 
doesn't wick along the run under the wire I know it didn't take. It's 
easy to end up with rosin between the joint without noticing it when the 
wire goes straight up.


The only downside I've ever had is like the other guy said ... it's a 
total PITA to replace a component that has been soldered like that.


Dave   AB7E




On 3/25/2018 9:18 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

I agree, the stated NASA "method" does amaze me.
First, the K2 is not likely to go a space journey.

Components with pre-cut leads may require 3 hands.  One to hold the 
component, one to hold the soldering iron and another to hold the solder.
I would assume that NASA directive was for wave-soldering boards and 
does not apply to hand soldering.


I personally have a guideline which says "do not ever trim an 
unsoldered lead" - watch as you trim and go back and solder it.


Of course, I am one who inserts multiple components before soldering.

I have never seen a failed solder connection in my work nor had any 
reports of solder joint failure from those I have built the K2, K1, 
KX1 or XVseries transverters.


73,
Don W3FPR


On 3/25/2018 11:33 AM, James F. Boehner MD via Elecraft wrote:

Jerome,

Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were 
Heathkit

and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
spreading the leads, soldering, and then cutting the wires close to the
solder blob, checking for shorts.  I assume that goes for Elecraft 
also, but

I have not built any of their radios as kits, so not sure.

So how did NASA handle the potential difficulties?  Did they have precut
parts?  Did the tech have to place the part in the board and cut the 
leads
first?  If the part was loose, how was it held close to the board, 
owing to
the fact that holding the solder and the iron took two hands? What if 
the
lead length was overestimated and potentially could cause a short?  
Could
the wire be cut and the joint reheated, or did the part have to be 
removed,

recut and reinserted?


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[Elecraft] No audio

[Robert]

Hi,

Since a few days I have a problem with the audio of my K3.

All normal settings are oke, but still no audio, even not with a
hand microphone.

TX is working normal.

= Mic sel : FP.H - high
= Mic level : 20
= CMP level : 20

I have been searching the reflector to find if someone had this
problem before also, but so far not found.

The problem seem to be started, after I installed the subreceiver.

CW and RTTY tone are oke.

PD7RB Robert
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[Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[James F. Boehner MD via Elecraft]

Tony,

Thanks for the very detailed explanation.  I know we are stressing the
moderators with these somewhat OT postings, but I have learned something
today.

Your note about lead in solder is very apropos.  I know that NASA is not
wanting to have solder "whiskers" in any of their critical space equipment:

https://nepp.nasa.gov/Whisker/background/index.htm 

I usually hunt down tin/lead solder at Hamfests.  When I'm asked why I'm
risking lead exposure when soldering, I quote a line from one of our former
Presidents:  "I don't inhale"!

Thanks for the great discussion!

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

-Original Message-
From: N2TK, Tony [mailto:tony@verizon.net] 
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:58 PM
To: 'Doug Renwick'; 'James F. Boehner MD'; 'JEROME SODUS';
Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

Hi Jim,
Doug is correct about military and space work. All parts are precut or have
spacers installed prior to board mounting. Between flux, solder/flux and
mechanical means the parts are held in place until the reflow oven. For some
programs, boards are not allowed to be reworked. Some programs allow rework.
There is a very detailed procedure for reworking a board - MIL-PRF-38535 and
MIL-STD-883.

But, our applications and most commercial applications do not see the
stress, temperature range or vibration that some of these mil and space
boards see. So, for most of us bending the leads to hold the part, solder
and cut is fine. You can re-solder after cutting to be sure.  

Years ago at a NASA meeting, they were told you do not need a tool meeting
MIL-STD and MIL-PRF to make a board that meets those specs. So, have the
right solder and right temp on the soldering tool and the right tip and make
a nice flowing shiny solder connection. 
By the way, military space solder is not RoHS compliant. There will be lead
in the solder.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug Renwick
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:05 PM
To: 'James F. Boehner MD' ; 'JEROME SODUS'
; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

Heathkit recommended the "bad practice" saying "solder the leads to the foil
and cut off the excess lead lengths". Reprimanding a technician for doing
this is insane.
Doug

"Political correctness is a weapon used to silence people who tell the
truth" - Ayaan Hirsi Ali 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James F. Boehner MD
via Elecraft
Sent: March-25-18 9:33 AM
To: 'JEROME SODUS'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques:
trimbefore or after soldering?

Jerome,

Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were Heathkit
and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
spreading the leads, soldering, and then cutting the wires close to the
solder blob, checking for shorts.  I assume that goes for Elecraft also, but
I have not built any of their radios as kits, so not sure.

So how did NASA handle the potential difficulties?  Did they have precut
parts?  Did the tech have to place the part in the board and cut the leads
first?  If the part was loose, how was it held close to the board, owing to
the fact that holding the solder and the iron took two hands?  What if the
lead length was overestimated and potentially could cause a short?  Could
the wire be cut and the joint reheated, or did the part have to be removed,
recut and reinserted?

Just trying to picture the operation.

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of JEROME SODUS
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

About Message#15 copied below

Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the
soldered connection left undisturbed.

If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a
verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened
again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.

So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before
doing the final soldering.

73 Jerry KM3K



Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
From: Bill Johnson 
To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
, "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
techniques: trim 

Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[hawley, charles j jr]

That's probably good advice from NASA. However in 50 years, I've never cracked 
a solder joint by trimming off the excess lead after soldering. I can see how 
it could be imagined to happen and safer for sure if you are not going to be 
able to fix it should it ever happen.

Chuck Hawley
 c-haw...@illinois.edu

 Amateur Radio, KE9UW
 aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of JEROME SODUS [jso...@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 10:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim 
before or after soldering?

About Message#15 copied below

Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the 
soldered connection left undisturbed.

If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a 
verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened again; 
but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.

So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before doing 
the final soldering.

73 Jerry KM3K



Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
From: Bill Johnson 
To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
, "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
techniques: trim before or after soldering?
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both 
sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to 
hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush cut 
wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before soldering.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 building

[hawley, charles j jr]

Sounds great! I've thought about doing that...

Chuck Hawley
 c-haw...@illinois.edu

 Amateur Radio, KE9UW
 aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of tu...@zoominternet.net [tu...@zoominternet.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:45 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K2 building

Building another K2 YEARS after my first (which I sold).
I had forgotten how much work was involved! Having a good
time though and taking my time. Nice to be soldering again
even though my hands are not as steady and my eyes need
magnifying glasses to see those small parts! Just finished
the control and front panel boards.

73 all! Keith N8CEP
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[Elecraft] K2 building

[tuner]

Building another K2 YEARS after my first (which I sold).
I had forgotten how much work was involved! Having a good 
time though and taking my time. Nice to be soldering again 
even though my hands are not as steady and my eyes need 
magnifying glasses to see those small parts! Just finished
the control and front panel boards.

73 all! Keith N8CEP
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[Elecraft] NG7M / 2 Videos on FSK RTTY timings generated with EXTFSK/64 on new and older PC's via USB FTDI Com Ports

[M. George]

Joe, your 2010 data (which you haven't looked up and provided, but I assume
exists? from 8 years ago) isn't a good comparison to changes at the OS, CPU
/ hardware level between 2010 and 2018.  You are very good at telling
everyone the way things are, but not very good at showing folks the way
things are / work with actual experiments and data / video.

This exercise isn't productive until you actually watch all of my content
and start reproducing my results on a scope etc... If you are not willing
to do that in 2018 with your own equipment and continue to rely on
microHam's numbers from 2010... (or someone else's data) There is no point
to the discussion.  A lot has changed since 2010.  Plus I made it crystal
clear in my video that my main computer setup is much faster than most
other Ham shack computers at the moment (2018). You act like I expected
everyone to have the same setup... which clearly shows that you cherry
picked sections out of the video to confirm your preconceived conclusions
before every clicking on the video links.  You insist on leaving out all
the detail provided in the Video, because it can't be conveyed via a few
paragraphs of text in an email.

As usual, (which is well known), you will get the last word in... Until you
produce something new for 2018, a response from myself isn't productive at
all.  And will not take place.  For now I'll let my video speak to the
experiment and 2018 current state of what I recorded.  As I do other tests
and present other findings, I will be willing to change my
understanding/conjecture/opinion based on data collected and presented.

In the 2017 CQWWRTTY contest (using a 5 year old Ivy Bridge i7 Intel cpu)
with my K3S / internal FSK keyed by the same FTDI serial interface in my
video presented this last week, I'm shocked I was able to work 1285 QSO's
and 184 band countries.  My FSK generated signal on the other end of the
QSO's must have been horrible with this setup (jitter all over the place
I'm sure).

Band QSOs Pts  ZN   Cty  SP   Pt/Q
 3.5  62  7486   30   1.2
   7 338 599   27   58   50   1.8
  14 6891519   31   84   50   2.2
  21 194 370   23   34   37   1.9
  28   2   4221   2.0
   Total12852566   91  184  168   2.0

Score : 1,136,738

I look forward to your updated data and visuals / video using data gathered
from 2018.  That will be very interesting indeed.

73 de Max NG7M


>W4TV:
​Unfortunately, your first video is completely unrealistic as the vast
majority of amateurs uses computers significantly less powerful than
your lightly loaded (less than 40% CPU utilization by your own video)
six core, 3+ GHz CPU with the EXTFSK port on a dedicated motherboard
USB port with no loading from multiple (high priority) sound cards
(they are on a different USB Root Hub) and no contest level cluster
spots.

From my customer support support experience, the typical amateur station
is a 2-2.4 GHz Core2Duo (two cores, 4 execution units) with 1 GB RAM and
all USB ports (typically 4) served by a single USB Root Hub.  The system
typically runs a logging program that polls one or two transceivers for
eight parameters every 50 to 100 msec along with one or two 96 or 192
KHz sample rate USB sound cards for a software panadapter (or
equivalent USB I/Q SDR receivers) and another 16 bit, 48 KHz sample
rate USB sound card for digital operation.  In addition, those systems
are connected to a DXCluster node with CW/RTTY Skimmer providing a
net spot flow of > 100 spots per minute.

I've provided jitter data as measured by microHAM in 2010 multiple times
on the RTTY list ... and that data has been verified by JA7UDE (author
of EXTFSK an ETFSK64) who also confirms the added jitter when the USB
system (single USB Root Hub) is loaded with heavy data transfer.  Oba's
results have also been reported on the RTTY list and are available on
his EXTFSK64 page.

73,
​

-- 
M. George
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[Elecraft] Elecraft SSB Net

[John W Webster]

Please consider joining the weekly Elecraft SSB Net on Sundays at 18:00z (UTC).
Frequency is 14.303.5 in the 20m band.

Despite the contest today, we will try to run the net.

Eric, WB9JNZ, the regular net control station sent the following list from last 
week:

Elecraft SSB Net 3-18-2018

WB9JNZ Eric IL K3 4017 Net Control

KJ4ZSI Bud FL K3 4703

AE6JV Bill CA K2 6299

K7JG John WA KX3 3519

W7REK Glenn AZ K3 2843

WM5F Dwight ID KX3 8043

NS7P Phil OR K3 1826

W0CZ Ken ND K3S 11063

K7BRR Bill AZ K3S 10939

W0CZ Ken ND K3S 11063

NC0JW Jim Co KX3 1356

KE7HGE Ken WA KX3 4540 QRP

KL7BR Rick ID KX3 3160



73


John, N6JW
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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[N2TK, Tony]

Hi Jim,
Doug is correct about military and space work. All parts are precut or have
spacers installed prior to board mounting. Between flux, solder/flux and
mechanical means the parts are held in place until the reflow oven. For some
programs, boards are not allowed to be reworked. Some programs allow rework.
There is a very detailed procedure for reworking a board - MIL-PRF-38535 and
MIL-STD-883.

But, our applications and most commercial applications do not see the
stress, temperature range or vibration that some of these mil and space
boards see. So, for most of us bending the leads to hold the part, solder
and cut is fine. You can re-solder after cutting to be sure.  

Years ago at a NASA meeting, they were told you do not need a tool meeting
MIL-STD and MIL-PRF to make a board that meets those specs. So, have the
right solder and right temp on the soldering tool and the right tip and make
a nice flowing shiny solder connection. 
By the way, military space solder is not RoHS compliant. There will be lead
in the solder.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Doug Renwick
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 12:05 PM
To: 'James F. Boehner MD' ; 'JEROME SODUS'
; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

Heathkit recommended the "bad practice" saying "solder the leads to the foil
and cut off the excess lead lengths". Reprimanding a technician for doing
this is insane.
Doug

"Political correctness is a weapon used to silence people who tell the
truth" - Ayaan Hirsi Ali 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James F. Boehner MD
via Elecraft
Sent: March-25-18 9:33 AM
To: 'JEROME SODUS'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques:
trimbefore or after soldering?

Jerome,

Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were Heathkit
and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
spreading the leads, soldering, and then cutting the wires close to the
solder blob, checking for shorts.  I assume that goes for Elecraft also, but
I have not built any of their radios as kits, so not sure.

So how did NASA handle the potential difficulties?  Did they have precut
parts?  Did the tech have to place the part in the board and cut the leads
first?  If the part was loose, how was it held close to the board, owing to
the fact that holding the solder and the iron took two hands?  What if the
lead length was overestimated and potentially could cause a short?  Could
the wire be cut and the joint reheated, or did the part have to be removed,
recut and reinserted?

Just trying to picture the operation.

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of JEROME SODUS
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

About Message#15 copied below

Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the
soldered connection left undisturbed.

If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a
verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened
again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.

So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before
doing the final soldering.

73 Jerry KM3K



Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
From: Bill Johnson 
To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
, "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
techniques: trim before or after soldering?
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both
sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to
hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush
cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before
soldering.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.
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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[David Olean]

I was NASA certified to solder components back in the late 60's. I don't 
remember much except that stripping wires teflon wires required thermal 
wire strippers, and each solder joint used the minimum amount of solder 
and wires were wrapped around terminals for a specified number of 
degrees. The meniscus formed by the solder joint had to be concave.  All 
flux had to be removed with ethyl alcohol. All in an effort to reduce 
weight of the total package and still be reasonably solid to pass the 
shake tests.  I would never use NASA techniques for normal solder jobs.  
There is something to be said about .062 or .125 rolls of solder  and 
big lumps of solder on the joints! :-).


Dave K1WHS (solder blob expert!)


On 3/25/2018 3:33 PM, James F. Boehner MD via Elecraft wrote:

Jerome,

Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were Heathkit
and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
spreading the leads, soldering, and then cutting the wires close to the
solder blob, checking for shorts.  I assume that goes for Elecraft also, but
I have not built any of their radios as kits, so not sure.

So how did NASA handle the potential difficulties?  Did they have precut
parts?  Did the tech have to place the part in the board and cut the leads
first?  If the part was loose, how was it held close to the board, owing to
the fact that holding the solder and the iron took two hands?  What if the
lead length was overestimated and potentially could cause a short?  Could
the wire be cut and the joint reheated, or did the part have to be removed,
recut and reinserted?

Just trying to picture the operation.

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of JEROME SODUS
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

About Message#15 copied below

Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the
soldered connection left undisturbed.

If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a
verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened
again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.

So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before
doing the final soldering.

73 Jerry KM3K



Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
From: Bill Johnson 
To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
, "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
techniques: trim before or after soldering?
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both
sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to
hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush
cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before
soldering.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.
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[Elecraft] XG1

[Robert 'RC' Conley]

Thanks to all
I now have what I needed
73
KC5WA

-- 
The Morse be with youLive Long and Prosper
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Re: [Elecraft] XG1

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Check your email...

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 03/25/2018 08:45 AM, Robert 'RC' Conley wrote:

I need a "manual' for an XG1 signal general.
I know its discontinued. Need to determine
if this one is functional or not.
Thanks
KC5WA


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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 "HI CUR" Warning

[Don Wilhelm]

Chris,

That high SWR indication along with the HI CUR warning usually means 
that there is no antenna or dummy load electrically connected.
Check the cable from the KXAT3 to the BNC jack to be certain it is 
properly seated.


Did you ever connect an old 75 ohm BNC connector to the KX3?  Modern 75 
ohm BNC connectors have the same size center pin as the 50 ohm 
connectors, but older ones may have a larger center pin.
If you used one of those old 75 ohm connectors, you may have enlarged 
the center conductor of the KX3 BNC jack and then later using a 50 ohm 
connector, there will be a break in the continuity.


You may be able to bend the fingers of the female BNC jack inward, but 
if that is not feasible, replace the BNC jack.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/25/2018 10:53 AM, Chris wrote:

Bill,

Thanks for your response. I tried tuning into a 50 ohm dummy load (using known 
good cables), and see the same issue.

Neither the BNC nor the internal cables look damaged in any way.

I'll note I never use an internal battery, so I rarely open the unit.


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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Art Greenberg]

I guess if you're building something that goes into a spacecraft or is life 
support equipment, you want to do everything you can to make the product as 
reliable as possible. In most cases, ham gear, especially hand assembled ham 
gear, doesn't fall into that category.

Mass produced through-hole assembly where the PCB is wave soldered requires the 
parts to be held in place and leads trimmed prior to soldering. I recall a 
"staking" tool that would flatten the component lead very close to the PCB and 
trim off the excess in one operation.

Replacing parts where the components were staked in is a PITA.

-- 
Art Greenberg
WA2LLN
a...@artg.tv

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, at 12:18, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> I agree, the stated NASA "method" does amaze me.
> First, the K2 is not likely to go a space journey.
> 
> Components with pre-cut leads may require 3 hands.  One to hold the 
> component, one to hold the soldering iron and another to hold the solder.
> I would assume that NASA directive was for wave-soldering boards and 
> does not apply to hand soldering.
> 
> I personally have a guideline which says "do not ever trim an unsoldered 
> lead" - watch as you trim and go back and solder it.
> 
> Of course, I am one who inserts multiple components before soldering.
> 
> I have never seen a failed solder connection in my work nor had any 
> reports of solder joint failure from those I have built the K2, K1, KX1 
> or XVseries transverters.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> 
> On 3/25/2018 11:33 AM, James F. Boehner MD via Elecraft wrote:
> > Jerome,
> > 
> > Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
> > were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were Heathkit
> > and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
> > spreading the leads, soldering, and then cutting the wires close to the
> > solder blob, checking for shorts.  I assume that goes for Elecraft also, but
> > I have not built any of their radios as kits, so not sure.
> > 
> > So how did NASA handle the potential difficulties?  Did they have precut
> > parts?  Did the tech have to place the part in the board and cut the leads
> > first?  If the part was loose, how was it held close to the board, owing to
> > the fact that holding the solder and the iron took two hands?  What if the
> > lead length was overestimated and potentially could cause a short?  Could
> > the wire be cut and the joint reheated, or did the part have to be removed,
> > recut and reinserted?
> > 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Don Wilhelm]

I agree, the stated NASA "method" does amaze me.
First, the K2 is not likely to go a space journey.

Components with pre-cut leads may require 3 hands.  One to hold the 
component, one to hold the soldering iron and another to hold the solder.
I would assume that NASA directive was for wave-soldering boards and 
does not apply to hand soldering.


I personally have a guideline which says "do not ever trim an unsoldered 
lead" - watch as you trim and go back and solder it.


Of course, I am one who inserts multiple components before soldering.

I have never seen a failed solder connection in my work nor had any 
reports of solder joint failure from those I have built the K2, K1, KX1 
or XVseries transverters.


73,
Don W3FPR


On 3/25/2018 11:33 AM, James F. Boehner MD via Elecraft wrote:

Jerome,

Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were Heathkit
and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
spreading the leads, soldering, and then cutting the wires close to the
solder blob, checking for shorts.  I assume that goes for Elecraft also, but
I have not built any of their radios as kits, so not sure.

So how did NASA handle the potential difficulties?  Did they have precut
parts?  Did the tech have to place the part in the board and cut the leads
first?  If the part was loose, how was it held close to the board, owing to
the fact that holding the solder and the iron took two hands?  What if the
lead length was overestimated and potentially could cause a short?  Could
the wire be cut and the joint reheated, or did the part have to be removed,
recut and reinserted?


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Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[Doug Renwick]

Heathkit recommended the "bad practice" saying "solder the leads to the foil
and cut off the excess lead lengths". Reprimanding a technician for doing
this is insane.
Doug

"Political correctness is a weapon used to silence people who tell the
truth" - Ayaan Hirsi Ali 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James F. Boehner MD
via Elecraft
Sent: March-25-18 9:33 AM
To: 'JEROME SODUS'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques:
trimbefore or after soldering?

Jerome,

Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were Heathkit
and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
spreading the leads, soldering, and then cutting the wires close to the
solder blob, checking for shorts.  I assume that goes for Elecraft also, but
I have not built any of their radios as kits, so not sure.

So how did NASA handle the potential difficulties?  Did they have precut
parts?  Did the tech have to place the part in the board and cut the leads
first?  If the part was loose, how was it held close to the board, owing to
the fact that holding the solder and the iron took two hands?  What if the
lead length was overestimated and potentially could cause a short?  Could
the wire be cut and the joint reheated, or did the part have to be removed,
recut and reinserted?

Just trying to picture the operation.

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of JEROME SODUS
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

About Message#15 copied below

Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the
soldered connection left undisturbed.

If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a
verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened
again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.

So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before
doing the final soldering.

73 Jerry KM3K



Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
From: Bill Johnson 
To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
, "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
techniques: trim before or after soldering?
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both
sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to
hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush
cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before
soldering.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.
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---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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[Elecraft] XG1

[Robert 'RC' Conley]

I need a "manual' for an XG1 signal general.
I know its discontinued. Need to determine
if this one is functional or not.
Thanks
KC5WA
-- 
The Morse be with youLive Long and Prosper
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[Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim before or after soldering?

[James F. Boehner MD via Elecraft]

Jerome,

Now this is interesting.  This is totally opposite of the way most of us
were taught to solder.  Among the kits I used to put together were Heathkit
and Ramsey, both of whom recommended securing the parts in place by
spreading the leads, soldering, and then cutting the wires close to the
solder blob, checking for shorts.  I assume that goes for Elecraft also, but
I have not built any of their radios as kits, so not sure.

So how did NASA handle the potential difficulties?  Did they have precut
parts?  Did the tech have to place the part in the board and cut the leads
first?  If the part was loose, how was it held close to the board, owing to
the fact that holding the solder and the iron took two hands?  What if the
lead length was overestimated and potentially could cause a short?  Could
the wire be cut and the joint reheated, or did the part have to be removed,
recut and reinserted?

Just trying to picture the operation.

'73 de JIM N2ZZ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of JEROME SODUS
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 11:40 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation techniques: trim
before or after soldering?

About Message#15 copied below

Sorry but cutting wires after soldering is "bad practice"; NASA wanted the
soldered connection left undisturbed.

If I ever saw an assembler or tech doing that "bad practice", they'd get a
verbal warning that first time and a written warning if it ever happened
again; but I had good, conscientious people and never had to do that.

So, tin the wires if needed; position the part and then trim wires before
doing the final soldering.

73 Jerry KM3K



Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:39:47 +
From: Bill Johnson 
To: "ksto...@ac0h.net" , 'Mark Petrovic'
, "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net"

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Resistor and capacitor installation
techniques: trim before or after soldering?
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Follow the instructions and solder as directed. There are components on both
sides as I recall with the majority on the top. The leads need be spread to
hold the components in place on the board. Once done soldering use a flush
cut wirecutter to remove the excess. Not a good idea to trim them before
soldering.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT'er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 "HI CUR" Warning

[Johan Ymerson]

Hi,

Since it is displaying HI CUR it is more likely a short.
I am not familiar with the KX2, but other Elecraft rigs has a spark gap across  
the antenna input. These devices are designed to fail safe, ie short, if 
overloaded. Not sure how to check that on a KX2 though.

/Johan

On Sunday, 25 March 2018 16:53:14 CEST Chris wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> Thanks for your response. I tried tuning into a 50 ohm dummy load (using
> known good cables), and see the same issue.
> 
> Neither the BNC nor the internal cables look damaged in any way.
> 
> I'll note I never use an internal battery, so I rarely open the unit.
> 
> -- Chris (KD2FLH)
> 
> On March 25, 2018 10:18:15 AM EDT, Nr4c  wrote:
> >Check every connection in any system. VSWR of 25.1 is normal for an “no
> >antenna” condition at any connector. Something is disconnected.
> >
> >WIt’s this HI SWR you will get HI CUR warming as radio tries to develop
> >power into the non-existing antenna. And you will not get much power
> >developed.
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >...nr4c. bill
> >
> >> On Mar 25, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Chris  wrote:
> >> 
> >> My KX2 started now only reports 25.4-1 when attempting to tune my
> >
> >antenna. The value does not fluctuate during the tuning process.
> >
> >> During some transmit attempts (SSB, Power set to 3.0W), I received
> >
> >the "HI CUR"message. In general, my reported power output never gets
> >above 0.5W, no matter what power settings are used.
> >
> >> Any help would be appreicated.
> >> 
> >> --Chris (KD2FLH)
> >> __
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 "HI CUR" Warning

[Chris]

Bill,

Thanks for your response. I tried tuning into a 50 ohm dummy load (using known 
good cables), and see the same issue.

Neither the BNC nor the internal cables look damaged in any way.

I'll note I never use an internal battery, so I rarely open the unit.

-- Chris (KD2FLH)

On March 25, 2018 10:18:15 AM EDT, Nr4c  wrote:
>Check every connection in any system. VSWR of 25.1 is normal for an “no
>antenna” condition at any connector. Something is disconnected. 
>
>WIt’s this HI SWR you will get HI CUR warming as radio tries to develop
>power into the non-existing antenna. And you will not get much power
>developed. 
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>...nr4c. bill
>
>
>> On Mar 25, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Chris  wrote:
>> 
>> My KX2 started now only reports 25.4-1 when attempting to tune my
>antenna. The value does not fluctuate during the tuning process.
>> 
>> During some transmit attempts (SSB, Power set to 3.0W), I received
>the "HI CUR"message. In general, my reported power output never gets
>above 0.5W, no matter what power settings are used.
>> 
>> Any help would be appreicated.
>> 
>> --Chris (KD2FLH)
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 "HI CUR" Warning

[rich hurd WC3T]

I recently corrected such a fault on my KX3 by replacing the BNC chassis
connector.  I had tried all other suspects:  cables, faulty connectors,
cheap crap from Fleabay rather than a reputable source, even different
(previously working) antennas;  nothing worked.  My misadventures are
chronicled on the reflector archives somewhere.  :)

Once I replaced the BNC chassis connector, the rig returned to its normal
stellar performance.

Thanks Bill for the tip about 25.4-1. Didn't know that.  It would have
accelerated the troubleshooting process. :)

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 10:18 Nr4c  wrote:

> Check every connection in any system. VSWR of 25.1 is normal for an “no
> antenna” condition at any connector. Something is disconnected.
>
> WIt’s this HI SWR you will get HI CUR warming as radio tries to develop
> power into the non-existing antenna. And you will not get much power
> developed.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
>
>
> > On Mar 25, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Chris  wrote:
> >
> > My KX2 started now only reports 25.4-1 when attempting to tune my
> antenna. The value does not fluctuate during the tuning process.
> >
> > During some transmit attempts (SSB, Power set to 3.0W), I received the
> "HI CUR"message. In general, my reported power output never gets above
> 0.5W, no matter what power settings are used.
> >
> > Any help would be appreicated.
> >
> > --Chris (KD2FLH)
> > __
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
PA Army MARS, Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer
for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] KX2 "HI CUR" Warning

[Nr4c]

Check every connection in any system. VSWR of 25.1 is normal for an “no 
antenna” condition at any connector. Something is disconnected. 

WIt’s this HI SWR you will get HI CUR warming as radio tries to develop power 
into the non-existing antenna. And you will not get much power developed. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 25, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Chris  wrote:
> 
> My KX2 started now only reports 25.4-1 when attempting to tune my antenna. 
> The value does not fluctuate during the tuning process.
> 
> During some transmit attempts (SSB, Power set to 3.0W), I received the "HI 
> CUR"message. In general, my reported power output never gets above 0.5W, no 
> matter what power settings are used.
> 
> Any help would be appreicated.
> 
> --Chris (KD2FLH)
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to n...@widomaker.com

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[Elecraft] KX2 "HI CUR" Warning

[Chris]

My KX2 started now only reports 25.4-1 when attempting to tune my antenna. The 
value does not fluctuate during the tuning process.

During some transmit attempts (SSB, Power set to 3.0W), I received the "HI 
CUR"message. In general, my reported power output never gets above 0.5W, no 
matter what power settings are used.

Any help would be appreicated.

--Chris (KD2FLH)
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