Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[David Gilbert]

So very true.  I'm about as far removed from being an AM/audiophile type 
of ham as you could imagine, but I've heard guys getting "great audio" 
reports when they sounded like trash with lots of clipping. It's really 
sad, and I tend to err on the conservative side because I'd rather give 
up a bit of "punch" than be one of them.


73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/28/2019 7:46 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
In looking at my P3 and SSB signals on the bands, there are lots and 
lots of really bad signals.   Yet I  most often hear "great signal" 
given as a report.


73

Bob, K4TAX


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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I find a lot of the opposite sideband splatter is originated from 
mis-tuned amplifiers or amplifiers which are driven too hard.   If it 
isn't "linear" it is a splatter generator.    And linear means just 
that, linear.  For an amp to be linear, it must amplify all signal 
levels the same amount.  Most amplifiers begin to show some degree of 
signal compression at the upper power rating limits. Pushing one past 
these limits even the slightest amount, generate significant amounts of 
opposite sideband splatter.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 8/28/2019 4:27 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 8/28/2019 1:50 PM, Wes wrote:

Yes. I regularly see signals from SSB ragchewers with splatter in the 
suppressed sideband only 10-15 dB below signal in the intentional 
sideband. The data in the link I posted was with a P3 on my second K3, 
with the K3 being measured into a dummy load.


I've alerted guys on 6M about this, suggesting they turn down drive to 
their amplifier, and they said they didn't have an amplifier. When I 
asked what rig, it was one of the low-cost do-everything rigs from one 
of the big JA mfrs. When I posted this at the time, W4TV described the 
mechanism (I think I remember that it was a shortcominBefore Elecraft 
rigs took over Field Day, These cheap rigs (and even some much more 
expensive ones) have long been considered the scourge of Field Day.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

We've made great technical strides in receivers.    Transmitters, well 
they are best described still as "out house" technology. Nothing has 
changed of significance in 25+ years.  In looking at my P3 and SSB 
signals on the bands, there are lots and lots of really bad signals.   
Yet I  most often hear "great signal" given as a report.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 8/28/2019 3:50 PM, Wes wrote:

Barry,

With my SDR-IQ looking at the K3S i-f output I can see the other guy's 
signature.  I suppose a P3 does the same.  It's pretty amazing to see 
some of the lousy signals when we have such improved technology.


Wes

On 8/28/2019 1:30 PM, Barry wrote:

Wes,
    You make a very good point. The unwanted sideband will not be 0; 
there will be some "residue" that can be heard if the signal is 
strong enough. And, a lot has to do with the measurement method at 
the receiver.


    Years ago, I was running DSBSC using a Globe DSB-100. I was told 
that my carrier was way down but my unwanted sideband was only 20 db 
down. That was interesting as I made no effort to suppress my 
unwanted sideband. The problem was the method that was used to make 
the measurements and the strength of my signal. So, determining the 
ratio of the two sidebands might be difficult, but it may be the 
correct approach, However, it will require being able to "see" both 
sidebands on an equal basis.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Wes" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 8/28/2019 1:45:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite 
sideband?


Although the manual doesn't say so, according to an ARRL review, the 
K3S is specified to have undesired sideband suppression of >50 dB.  
ARRL claims an optimistic >70 dB.


So if you are extremely strong at the other guy's place, he might 
easily hear an opposite sideband, even though your radio is 
operating correctly.  Ask him what the ratio is.


Wes  N7WS

On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC 
as he

is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 
and the

compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a 
bit

and see what that does for him.

73, Nate, N0NB



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Re: [Elecraft] 8 pole Inrad filters for sale

[Robert Brown via Elecraft]

Tom:

If the 250 is still available, I’ll take it.

Bob Brown, N1CVX

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Michael Walker]

Hi Fred  (Skip)

Sadly, many of those are splattering so wide that you can hear them on the
opposite sideband.  Unfortunately, a report of great audio does not mean
great IMD performance.

Don't take this the wrong way, I am not saying you have bad IMD it just
that you can't relate the 2 has being an indicator.

With a good radio and a good waterfall you can see it plain as day.  There
are a few locals (aka here in ve3 land) that I 'watch' routinely with their
top end Yaesu's (5000's) and they sound awesome, but they have the absolute
worst splatter you have ever seen.One guy on 80M was absolutely
understandable when I listened to him on USB.

Nate, glad you got it figured out.   I'm sure we have all been there (me
included).

73 all, Mike va3mw


On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:43 PM Nate Bargmann  wrote:

> I think I better take a mea culpa on this one.  One reply in a private
> email asked if I was using and amp and whether I was driving it too
> hard.  Well, some mornings this week I have depending on static levels
> and I operated the KS QSO Party this past weekend and ran 100W.  I
> normally run the amp (ALS-600) with the power setting at 70W.
>
> This is probably just a, "D'oh!" moment.  Yes, the K3 was still set for
> 100W.
>
> Incidentally,  My COMP runs about 2-3 bars on voice peaks and the ALC
> meter is in the 5-7 bars range on peaks as well.
>
> It's a PEBCAK3 issue.  ;-)
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Web: https://www.n0nb.us
> Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
> GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Nate Bargmann]

I think I better take a mea culpa on this one.  One reply in a private
email asked if I was using and amp and whether I was driving it too
hard.  Well, some mornings this week I have depending on static levels
and I operated the KS QSO Party this past weekend and ran 100W.  I
normally run the amp (ALS-600) with the power setting at 70W.

This is probably just a, "D'oh!" moment.  Yes, the K3 was still set for
100W.

Incidentally,  My COMP runs about 2-3 bars on voice peaks and the ALC
meter is in the 5-7 bars range on peaks as well.

It's a PEBCAK3 issue.  ;-)

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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Re: [Elecraft] 8 pole Inrad filters for sale

[Tom]

Hi,
BTW they are $80 each.  
73 Tom

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On
Behalf Of Tom
Sent: August 28, 2019 7:42 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] 8 pole Inrad filters for sale

Hi, I have two filters for the Elecraft K3 for sale.
One is the KFL3A-250 and the other is the KFL3A-6K.
$80 US shipped in North America.
Thanks, Tom
va2fsq.com


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[Elecraft] [OT] Uses for old boards

[Bill Frantz]

When I installed the upgrades in my K3, I kept the old boards. I've come up 
with two uses for them.

  * Give them to people who post that they want them. (One Synth board give 
away).
  * Use them to practice surface mount rework. You can even test the reworked 
board.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 8/26/19 at 3:33 PM, pin...@erols.com (Charlie T) wrote:

> ...
> While the K3 concept of buying a newer "upgraded" synthesizer board for 
> example,  rather 
> than a new radio sounds like a great idea which will surely change the 
> performance, I 
> feel it is NOT a feasible solution, as it generates a worthless board that is 
> only good 
> as a pistol target.
> ...
> 
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
---
Bill Frantz|"After all, if the conventional wisdom was working, the
408-356-8506   | rate of systems being compromised would be going down,
www.pwpconsult.com | wouldn't it?" -- Marcus Ranum

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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[Wayne Burdick]

Either would work, especially since you need an ATU to match on 40 and 30 
meters anyway.

The ATU requirement is clearly spelled out in the product info -- hope no one 
missed this :)  Short whips can be very narrow banded.

Wayne
N6KR



> On Aug 28, 2019, at 4:36 PM, MaverickNH  wrote:
> 
> I see note to attach the radials to the transceiver near the antenna jack. If
> using a short coax to mount the antenna on THE Elecraft tripod base, is
> connecting radials to that base preferred or is connecting them to the
> transceiver still advised? I use the Elecraft AX1 radial and a separate
> radial cut for 20m now, connected to the antenna base rather than KX2
> chassis. I'll probably make another 40m radial and mark it to roll for 20m.
> 
> Bret/N4SRN
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Elecraft] 8 pole Inrad filters for sale

[Tom]

Hi, I have two filters for the Elecraft K3 for sale.
One is the KFL3A-250 and the other is the KFL3A-6K.
$80 US shipped in North America.
Thanks, Tom
va2fsq.com


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[Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Andy Durbin]

"The more ALC you have, the more the radio is already shutting down down your 
audio gain and hence the reason it is called Automatic Limiting Control."

Can you please cite any modern rig, preferably with reference to the 
schematics, for which ALC is applied to the audio signal?For the rigs I 
have studied ALC gain is applied somewhere in the Transmit IF, long after the 
modulation is applied.

Can you please provide any reference that defines ALC as Automatic Limiting 
Control?

73,
Andy, k3wyc

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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[Kidder, George]

Yes

On 8/28/2019 7:21 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> [This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to 
> ab...@ilstu.edu]
> 
> Does this also work the same for the KAT500?   I've not tried it.
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:56 PM, HB via Elecraft  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Me too!!
>>
>>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:32 PM, Jay Rutherford  wrote:
>>>
>>> Ordered mine!
>>>
 On Wed, Aug 28, 2019, at 16:40, MaverickNH wrote:
 https://elecraft.com/products/axe1_40-meter-antenna-extender?mc_cid=19e05c5b30_eid=f94cda7417

 Ordered mine already!

 BRET/N4SRN



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[Elecraft] Microham MicroKeyer II for sale

[Tom]

Hi,
I have a MicroKeyer II with the Elecraft K3 cable set for sale.
Used sparingly during the development if Win4K3Suite.
Price: $325 US shipped in North America.
73 Tom
va2fsq.com


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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[MaverickNH]

I see note to attach the radials to the transceiver near the antenna jack. If
using a short coax to mount the antenna on THE Elecraft tripod base, is
connecting radials to that base preferred or is connecting them to the
transceiver still advised? I use the Elecraft AX1 radial and a separate
radial cut for 20m now, connected to the antenna base rather than KX2
chassis. I'll probably make another 40m radial and mark it to roll for 20m.

Bret/N4SRN



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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Does this also work the same for the KAT500?   I've not tried it. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:56 PM, HB via Elecraft  wrote:
> 
> Me too!!
> 
>> On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:32 PM, Jay Rutherford  wrote:
>> 
>> Ordered mine!
>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019, at 16:40, MaverickNH wrote:
>>> https://elecraft.com/products/axe1_40-meter-antenna-extender?mc_cid=19e05c5b30_eid=f94cda7417
>>> 
>>> Ordered mine already!
>>> 
>>> BRET/N4SRN
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[rich hurd WC3T]

Hah.  I bought TWO and I only have one AX1.  Going to try an 80M QSO.  So
there.

(Not really - I only bought one.)

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 18:56 HB via Elecraft 
wrote:

> Me too!!
>
> > On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:32 PM, Jay Rutherford  wrote:
> >
> > Ordered mine!
> >
> >> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019, at 16:40, MaverickNH wrote:
> >>
> https://elecraft.com/products/axe1_40-meter-antenna-extender?mc_cid=19e05c5b30_eid=f94cda7417
> >>
> >> Ordered mine already!
> >>
> >> BRET/N4SRN
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> >> __
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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[HB via Elecraft]

Me too!!

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:32 PM, Jay Rutherford  wrote:
> 
> Ordered mine!
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019, at 16:40, MaverickNH wrote:
>> https://elecraft.com/products/axe1_40-meter-antenna-extender?mc_cid=19e05c5b30_eid=f94cda7417
>> 
>> Ordered mine already!
>> 
>> BRET/N4SRN
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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[Elecraft] For Sale P3 with SVGA and TXMon

[C Allen Baker via Elecraft]

Infrequently used.  Includes cables and manual.  Prepaid shipping in lower 48.  
$850.00

Fotos on request.

73 de Al, W5IZ
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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Kent,

This is a feature of the tuner in the K3/K3S as well.

Wayne


On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:58 PM Kent Olsen  wrote:

> I ordered mine.
>
> Looking at the instructions,  "If you’re using the ATU in a KX2 or KX3,
> note that tapping ATU TUNE a
> second time within 5 seconds may find a better match."
>
> I never knew this.
> Thanks
> 73
> Kent
> N6WT
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:34 PM Jay Rutherford  wrote:
>
> > Ordered mine!
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019, at 16:40, MaverickNH wrote:
> > >
> >
> https://elecraft.com/products/axe1_40-meter-antenna-extender?mc_cid=19e05c5b30_eid=f94cda7417
> > >
> > > Ordered mine already!
> > >
> > > BRET/N4SRN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> > > __
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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[Kent Olsen]

I ordered mine.

Looking at the instructions,  "If you’re using the ATU in a KX2 or KX3,
note that tapping ATU TUNE a
second time within 5 seconds may find a better match."

I never knew this.
Thanks
73
Kent
N6WT


On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:34 PM Jay Rutherford  wrote:

> Ordered mine!
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019, at 16:40, MaverickNH wrote:
> >
> https://elecraft.com/products/axe1_40-meter-antenna-extender?mc_cid=19e05c5b30_eid=f94cda7417
> >
> > Ordered mine already!
> >
> > BRET/N4SRN
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Wes]

It seems like often Jim and I disagree on things, but this time I'm in total 
agreement with him.


About a year after my speech processor paper was published in Ham Radio Magazine 
(http://k6mhe.com/n7ws/S_PROC.pdf) I worked a guy in the PNW, on ten meters. He 
was running a homebrew 2 watt radio and using a copy of my processor.  He was 
delighted with it and the fact that we were talking.  Frankly, it was the first 
time I'd heard one from the other end.  So he wanted to experiment.  He was 
about S2 but perfectly Q5.  When he turned the processor off he was gone. Not a 
peep.  It was amazing. Frankly, I was impressed.  I knew the theory but to see 
it in action was eyeopening.


Wes  N7WS

On 8/28/2019 2:18 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 8/28/2019 1:46 PM, Michael Walker wrote:

I am not a big fan of compression and in today's world there really is no
requirement to have it on.  Ask anyone who has been DXPedition end of a
DXPedition and they will tell you to turn it off as it is actually harder
to understand you.


This is NOT true if compression is well adjusted -- 10 dB of well adjusted 
compression increases talk power by 10 dB, and setting TXEQ to remove speech 
content below 400 Hz helps by another 3 dB. It is the abuse of compression 
that reduces intelligibility. Compression has been universally used in all 
broadcasting modes for at least 60 years, and for at least 40 years, for gain 
reductions of 30 dB or more! The joke among FM broadcast engineers in the '70s 
was "If the meter in the modulation monitor moves, the program director will 
say we're not loud enough!"


73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft] For Sale P3 Monitor with SVGA video and TX Monitor (DCHF2000 1.8-54mhz)

[C Allen Baker via Elecraft]

I am selling my infrequently used P3 as described above with cables.  Asking 
$850.00 which includes prepaid and insured shipment to any of the 48 states.

Contact me by e mail.  Can send fotos.

73 de Al,  W5IZ
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Re: [Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[Jay Rutherford]

Ordered mine!

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019, at 16:40, MaverickNH wrote:
> https://elecraft.com/products/axe1_40-meter-antenna-extender?mc_cid=19e05c5b30_eid=f94cda7417
> 
> Ordered mine already!
> 
> BRET/N4SRN
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Jim Brown]

On 8/28/2019 1:50 PM, Wes wrote:
With my SDR-IQ looking at the K3S i-f output I can see the other guy's 
signature.  I suppose a P3 does the same.  It's pretty amazing to see 
some of the lousy signals when we have such improved technology.


Yes. I regularly see signals from SSB ragchewers with splatter in the 
suppressed sideband only 10-15 dB below signal in the intentional 
sideband. The data in the link I posted was with a P3 on my second K3, 
with the K3 being measured into a dummy load.


I've alerted guys on 6M about this, suggesting they turn down drive to 
their amplifier, and they said they didn't have an amplifier. When I 
asked what rig, it was one of the low-cost do-everything rigs from one 
of the big JA mfrs. When I posted this at the time, W4TV described the 
mechanism (I think I remember that it was a shortcominBefore Elecraft 
rigs took over Field Day, These cheap rigs (and even some much more 
expensive ones) have long been considered the scourge of Field Day.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Fred Jensen]

Yes, I know what the manual says.  However the IMD on my K3 goes up when 
I set the mic gain to flicker bar 7 on voice peaks so I run it with 
almost no ALC.  I also set the TX EQ using the "K9YC Method," and 
regularly get unsolicited "great audio" comments so I'm a fairly happy ham.


I'm not on SSB often, but when I do get on such as NAQP SSB, I'm always 
a bit surprised at how many signals have all the sideband energy crammed 
right up against the suppressed carrier.  Not too many fill up their 
BW.  For those of us with compromised hearing, it makes copy difficult 
... one of the several reasons I don't get on phone very often.  All 
that low frequency energy contributes almost nothing to intelligibility.


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/28/2019 11:05 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Fred,

The ALC level you recommended is the recommended level for digital 
modes such as FT8 where *no ALC* is the standard practice.
Elecraft's recommended for the K3 or K3S ALC level when operating in 
voice modes is *5-7 bars.*


The exact quote from page 30 of the latest K3S manual
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/Manuals%20Downloads/K3S%20Owner's%20man%20A1.pdf

Optionally select TX TEST mode (pg. 13) or set power to zero. This 
will not affect your CMP/ALC bar graph readings.


Set CMP to 0

Hold METER to select CMP/ALC metering

While speaking into the microphone in a normal voice, adjust MIC for a 
peak ALC meter indication of about *5-7 bars* (see below).


Adjust CMP for the desired speech compression level while speaking.The 
CMP scale shows approximate compression level.


73
Frank
W3LPL



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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Jim Brown]

On 8/28/2019 1:46 PM, Michael Walker wrote:

I am not a big fan of compression and in today's world there really is no
requirement to have it on.  Ask anyone who has been DXPedition end of a
DXPedition and they will tell you to turn it off as it is actually harder
to understand you.


This is NOT true if compression is well adjusted -- 10 dB of well 
adjusted compression increases talk power by 10 dB, and setting TXEQ to 
remove speech content below 400 Hz helps by another 3 dB. It is the 
abuse of compression that reduces intelligibility. Compression has been 
universally used in all broadcasting modes for at least 60 years, and 
for at least 40 years, for gain reductions of 30 dB or more! The joke 
among FM broadcast engineers in the '70s was "If the meter in the 
modulation monitor moves, the program director will say we're not loud 
enough!"


73, Jim K9YC




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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Wes]

Barry,

With my SDR-IQ looking at the K3S i-f output I can see the other guy's 
signature.  I suppose a P3 does the same.  It's pretty amazing to see some of 
the lousy signals when we have such improved technology.


Wes

On 8/28/2019 1:30 PM, Barry wrote:

Wes,
    You make a very good point. The unwanted sideband will not be 0; there 
will be some "residue" that can be heard if the signal is strong enough. And, 
a lot has to do with the measurement method at the receiver.


    Years ago, I was running DSBSC using a Globe DSB-100. I was told that my 
carrier was way down but my unwanted sideband was only 20 db down. That was 
interesting as I made no effort to suppress my unwanted sideband. The problem 
was the method that was used to make the measurements and the strength of my 
signal. So, determining the ratio of the two sidebands might be difficult, but 
it may be the correct approach, However, it will require being able to "see" 
both sidebands on an equal basis.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Wes" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 8/28/2019 1:45:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

Although the manual doesn't say so, according to an ARRL review, the K3S is 
specified to have undesired sideband suppression of >50 dB.  ARRL claims an 
optimistic >70 dB.


So if you are extremely strong at the other guy's place, he might easily hear 
an opposite sideband, even though your radio is operating correctly.  Ask him 
what the ratio is.


Wes  N7WS

On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.

73, Nate, N0NB



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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Michael Walker]

I agree with  Jim and what I tell hams every day since I seem to talk to a
bunch of them on the phone.

Do NOT use the settings other tell you, set up the radio by using the
Meters in the radio, in this case the ALC. That is the reason it is on the
radio.

The more ALC you have, the  more the radio is already shutting down down
your audio gain and hence the reason it is called Automatic Limiting
Control.

I am not a big fan of compression and in today's world there really is no
requirement to have it on.  Ask anyone who has been DXPedition end of a
DXPedition and they will tell you to turn it off as it is actually harder
to understand you.

It 'might' look like you have more power out, but it is not really in a
good way.

This is also a good time to review page 28 on "Voice Modes" and follow the
steps the way the Engineers who designed this want you to set up your
radio.  They are pretty smart people.  :)

I hope that helps, Mike va3mw


On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 4:33 PM Barry  wrote:

> Wes,
>  You make a very good point. The unwanted sideband will not be 0;
> there will be some "residue" that can be heard if the signal is strong
> enough. And, a lot has to do with the measurement method at the
> receiver.
>
>  Years ago, I was running DSBSC using a Globe DSB-100. I was told
> that my carrier was way down but my unwanted sideband was only 20 db
> down. That was interesting as I made no effort to suppress my unwanted
> sideband. The problem was the method that was used to make the
> measurements and the strength of my signal. So, determining the ratio of
> the two sidebands might be difficult, but it may be the correct
> approach, However, it will require being able to "see" both sidebands on
> an equal basis.
>
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Wes" 
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: 8/28/2019 1:45:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite
> sideband?
>
> >Although the manual doesn't say so, according to an ARRL review, the K3S
> is specified to have undesired sideband suppression of >50 dB.  ARRL claims
> an optimistic >70 dB.
> >
> >So if you are extremely strong at the other guy's place, he might easily
> hear an opposite sideband, even though your radio is operating correctly.
> Ask him what the ratio is.
> >
> >Wes  N7WS
> >
> >On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> >>I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
> >>is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
> >>I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
> >>compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
> >>energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?
> >>
> >>I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
> >>and see what that does for him.
> >>
> >>73, Nate, N0NB
> >>
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Wes]

What has any of that to do with opposite sideband rejection?

Wes  N7WS

BTW, The HPA kicks in at 12 W.

On 8/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
Numerical readouts for Mic Gain and Comp are pretty meaningless, because the 
output of good mics varies widely from one model to another, how close the mic 
is to the mouth, how loud we talk. The right way to set (and understand) these 
controls is to look at indicated ALC and CMP on the bar graph display while 
transmitting. Both adjustments should be made AFTER setting TXEQ. I have long 
advocated 10 dB of indicated CMP on voice peaks.


It is well known that IMD in the K3 and K3S increases when operating from low 
DC supply voltage. It also increases when the output stage is operating near 
its limit, and when the antenna is not well matched to the output stage. If 
the 100W amp is present, it does not engage until output power is set above 
about 15W, so IMD is also higher when running 12-15W. The increased IMD of the 
100W state can be clearly seen in this set of data.  DC voltage was in the 
range of 12.5V for these measurements. 
http://k9yc.com/P3_Spectrum_Measurements.pdf


Pink noise is widely used by audio professionals because its spectral 
distribution more closely corresponds to music and speech than does white 
noise. For that reason, pink noise is the best test signal for the evaluation 
of speech processing systems (like CMP and peak limiting).


73, Jim K9YC

8/28/2019 10:45 AM, Wes wrote:
Although the manual doesn't say so, according to an ARRL review, the K3S is 
specified to have undesired sideband suppression of >50 dB.  ARRL claims an 
optimistic >70 dB.


So if you are extremely strong at the other guy's place, he might easily hear 
an opposite sideband, even though your radio is operating correctly.  Ask him 
what the ratio is.


Wes  N7WS

On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.


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[Elecraft] AXE1 40m Extension

[MaverickNH]

https://elecraft.com/products/axe1_40-meter-antenna-extender?mc_cid=19e05c5b30_eid=f94cda7417

Ordered mine already!

BRET/N4SRN



--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Barry]

Wes,
You make a very good point. The unwanted sideband will not be 0; 
there will be some "residue" that can be heard if the signal is strong 
enough. And, a lot has to do with the measurement method at the 
receiver.


Years ago, I was running DSBSC using a Globe DSB-100. I was told 
that my carrier was way down but my unwanted sideband was only 20 db 
down. That was interesting as I made no effort to suppress my unwanted 
sideband. The problem was the method that was used to make the 
measurements and the strength of my signal. So, determining the ratio of 
the two sidebands might be difficult, but it may be the correct 
approach, However, it will require being able to "see" both sidebands on 
an equal basis.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Wes" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 8/28/2019 1:45:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite 
sideband?



Although the manual doesn't say so, according to an ARRL review, the K3S is specified 
to have undesired sideband suppression of >50 dB.  ARRL claims an optimistic 
>70 dB.

So if you are extremely strong at the other guy's place, he might easily hear 
an opposite sideband, even though your radio is operating correctly.  Ask him 
what the ratio is.

Wes  N7WS

On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.

73, Nate, N0NB



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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Jim Brown]

Numerical readouts for Mic Gain and Comp are pretty meaningless, because 
the output of good mics varies widely from one model to another, how 
close the mic is to the mouth, how loud we talk. The right way to set 
(and understand) these controls is to look at indicated ALC and CMP on 
the bar graph display while transmitting. Both adjustments should be 
made AFTER setting TXEQ. I have long advocated 10 dB of indicated CMP on 
voice peaks.


It is well known that IMD in the K3 and K3S increases when operating 
from low DC supply voltage. It also increases when the output stage is 
operating near its limit, and when the antenna is not well matched to 
the output stage. If the 100W amp is present, it does not engage until 
output power is set above about 15W, so IMD is also higher when running 
12-15W. The increased IMD of the 100W state can be clearly seen in this 
set of data.  DC voltage was in the range of 12.5V for these 
measurements. http://k9yc.com/P3_Spectrum_Measurements.pdf


Pink noise is widely used by audio professionals because its spectral 
distribution more closely corresponds to music and speech than does 
white noise. For that reason, pink noise is the best test signal for the 
evaluation of speech processing systems (like CMP and peak limiting).


73, Jim K9YC

8/28/2019 10:45 AM, Wes wrote:
Although the manual doesn't say so, according to an ARRL review, the K3S 
is specified to have undesired sideband suppression of >50 dB.  ARRL 
claims an optimistic >70 dB.


So if you are extremely strong at the other guy's place, he might easily 
hear an opposite sideband, even though your radio is operating 
correctly.  Ask him what the ratio is.


Wes  N7WS

On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[donovanf]

Hi Fred, 


The ALC level you recommended is the recommended level for digital modes such 
as FT8 where no ALC is the standard practice. 
Elecraft's recommended for the K3 or K3S ALC level when operating in voice 
modes is 5-7 bars. 


The exact quote from page 30 of the latest K3S manual 
https://ftp.elecraft.com/K3S/Manuals%20Downloads/K3S%20Owner's%20man%20A1.pdf 


Optionally select TX TEST mode (pg. 13) or set power to zero. This will not 
affect your CMP/ALC bar graph readings. 


Set CMP to 0 


Hold METER to select CMP/ALC metering 


While speaking into the microphone in a normal voice, adjust MIC for a peak ALC 
meter indication of about 5-7 bars (see below). 


Adjust CMP for the desired speech compression level while speaking.The CMP 
scale shows approximate compression level. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Fred Jensen"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 5:19:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband? 

Nate: 

You should run your MIC gain such that you see 4 bars of ALC with the 
5th just flickering occasionally on voice peaks. Make this adjustment 
with compression at zero. Then, adjust the compression as desired. I 
generally set it so that voice peaks show 10 dB compression. The first 
4 bars on the ALC display are in fact just a VU meter. ALC action 
begins at the 5th bar. Elecraft transceivers set the power out with a 
closed feedback loop [PWR setting], not the MIC gain. 

Driving the ALC too hard will create IMD which, among other things, will 
show up as energy on the opposite sideband. It all happens in the RF 
chain after the DSP has generated the SSB. 

73, 
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW 
Sparks NV DM09dn 
Washoe County 

On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote: 
> I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he 
> is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB. 
> I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the 
> compression at 11. My thinking was that generating opposite sideband 
> energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP. Am I wrong? 
> 
> I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit 
> and see what that does for him. 
> 
> 73, Nate, N0NB 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] AX1 Loaded Whip Antenna

[krug261 via Elecraft]

Bill,  

What was the length of the radials?

Bob, KA2TQV




On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 2:30 PM, William Shanney via Elecraft 
 wrote:

I ran some comparison tests on 20M with the AX1 against my Buddi Stick 
vertical when I first got it. I found the best performance was with the 
AX1 on a table top tripod on a picnic table with 2 resonant radials. The 
AX1 was about 1 S-unit down compared to the bigger antenna over a 22 
mile ocean path. During these times of low critical frequency short 
paths are dead and the lower radiation angle of the vertical is often 
better than a low dipole/Inv-V.

I find the AX1 most convenient for quick deployments.

Bill, W6QR

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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[David Gilbert]

I don't know about others, but when I got my K3 I did a lot of testing 
into a dummy load using my previous rig with a short piece of wire for 
an antenna to monitor my K3 audio.  I found anything above about 25 for 
mic gain was objectionable, at least to me.


73,
Dave   AB7E



On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.

73, Nate, N0NB



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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Wes]

Although the manual doesn't say so, according to an ARRL review, the K3S is 
specified to have undesired sideband suppression of >50 dB.  ARRL claims an 
optimistic >70 dB.


So if you are extremely strong at the other guy's place, he might easily hear an 
opposite sideband, even though your radio is operating correctly.  Ask him what 
the ratio is.


Wes  N7WS

On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.

73, Nate, N0NB



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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Dave Cole]

I have to say it...  Maybe he things you have an Icom?  :)

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 8/28/19 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.

73, Nate, N0NB


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[Elecraft] Elecraft SP-3

[Ron Genovesi]

 I have an extra Elecraft SP-3 Speaker  new in box for $125 plus shipping 
if anyone is interested. Please contact me off line.

 Ron Genovesi
 n3...@coastside.net





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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Fred Jensen]

Nate:

You should run your MIC gain such that you see 4 bars of ALC with the 
5th just flickering occasionally on voice peaks.  Make this adjustment 
with compression at zero.  Then, adjust the compression as desired.  I 
generally set it so that voice peaks show 10 dB compression.  The first 
4 bars on the ALC display are in fact just a VU meter.  ALC action 
begins at the 5th bar.  Elecraft transceivers set the power out with a 
closed feedback loop [PWR setting], not the MIC gain.


Driving the ALC too hard will create IMD which, among other things, will 
show up as energy on the opposite sideband.  It all happens in the RF 
chain after the DSP has generated the SSB.


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 8/28/2019 9:40 AM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.

73, Nate, N0NB



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Re: [Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Don Wilhelm]

Nate,

One thing is that you have a LOT of compression. That may be causing his 
receiving to show excess energy, maybe even lapping over into the 
opposite sideband.


First set the compression to zero, then either connect a dummy load or 
use TX TEST and adjust the mic gain for 5 to 7 bars on the ALC meter - 
the 7 bars should be seen only on peaks.


After that, you can increase the compression, but I would limit it to 6 
dB for normal operation.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/28/2019 12:40 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

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[Elecraft] WTB: 2M module for KX3

[Kevin Bess]

Really simple... Looking for a 2M module for a KX3. Thought I would try
here before just buying a new one from Elecraft.


73,

Kevin Bess - KK4BFN

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S7 on the Sprint Network.
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[Elecraft] K3--Too much ALC creates energy on opposite sideband?

[Nate Bargmann]

I received a note this morning advising that I should check my ALC as he
is seeing some energy on USB when I check into a 75m voice net on LSB.
I am using an MC-50 microphone and am running the mic gain at 35 and the
compression at 11.  My thinking was that generating opposite sideband
energy would be quite difficult with the K3's DSP.  Am I wrong?

I'll try working with him some morning and back down the mic gain a bit
and see what that does for him.

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819

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[Elecraft] TRADE? KX3/PX3 for KPA500

[rick jones via Elecraft]

This is a long shot but does anyone want to trade a loaded KX3/PX3 kit 
(everything but 2m module) for a KPA500, specifics negotiable of course! 
Figured I'd ask before the pain of selling fees etc.! Thanks for looking! Rick 
N3OHM
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