Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Phil Kane]

On 9/6/2017 10:11 AM, Josh wrote:

> AC must be terribly frustrating for the electron. Now I'm sad..

As Tommy the Tinkerer was overheard to say:

"What do you mean, Nikola, "back and forth".and three at a time ???"  :)

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane (retired tinkerer)
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

This thread was closed to due to its excessive number of posts -yesterday-.

Let's give it a rest.  No more 'last remarks', please.

Eric
Moderator
/elecraft.com/

On 9/6/2017 10:11 AM, Josh wrote:

AC must be terribly frustrating for the electron. Now I'm sad..


Sent from my mobile device




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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Dave Cole]

You sent it to the anti universe, then bring it back...  :)

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 09/06/2017 09:58 AM, kev...@coho.net wrote:

But how do you un-ionize an electron?

 Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 9/6/2017 8:35 AM, David Woolley wrote:


But the electrons only get less than a micron back before they get 
sent forward again, and they've only had about 1/120th of a second to 
rest. You are lucky they are not unionised, with those working 
conditions!




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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Josh]

Two hydrogen atoms step into a bar...

Atom1: Hey, you don't look so good. 
Atom2: Yeah, I think I lost my electron. 
Atom1: Oh no! Are you sure?
Atom2: I'm positive!

Sorry for the bandwidth on this lengthy OT. Back to work. 

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> 
> But how do you un-ionize an electron?
> 
> Kevin.  KD5ONS
> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Josh]

AC must be terribly frustrating for the electron. Now I'm sad..


Sent from my mobile device

> On Sep 6, 2017, at 8:35 AM, David Woolley  wrote:
> 
> 
> But the electrons only get less than a micron back before they get sent 
> forward again, and they've only had about 1/120th of a second to rest. You 
> are lucky they are not unionised, with those working conditions!
> 
> -- 
> David Woolley
> K2 06123
> 
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[kev...@coho.net]

But how do you un-ionize an electron?

    Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 9/6/2017 8:35 AM, David Woolley wrote:


But the electrons only get less than a micron back before they get 
sent forward again, and they've only had about 1/120th of a second to 
rest. You are lucky they are not unionised, with those working 
conditions!




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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[David Woolley]

But the electrons only get less than a micron back before they get sent 
forward again, and they've only had about 1/120th of a second to rest. 
You are lucky they are not unionised, with those working conditions!


--
David Woolley
K2 06123


On 04/09/17 19:09, Ken K6MR wrote:

Yes, but those electrons are really tired after all the work they did and need 
to go home to rest and regenerate….

Ken K6MR

From: Fred Jensen



Yes indeed!  For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have
been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and
charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this
... the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!!  They get
away with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.



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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - we closed this thread earlier today.
73,
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 9/5/2017 3:17 PM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:

Maybe you want to contribute this experience to list?




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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Carl Jón Denbow]

Maybe you want to contribute this experience to list?

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
 
c...@n8vz.com
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
 
IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
 
PSK and JT65 Forever!
===

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Mike Rhodes  wrote:
> 
> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but 
> wondering if this is something I should be doing.
> 
> Mike / W8DN
> 
>> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
>> Funny you posted this.
>> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to 
>> trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
>> Always expect the unusual.
>> Mel, K6KBE
>> 
>> 
>>   From: David Robertson 
>>  To: Elecraft 
>>  Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
>>  Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>>Everyone,
>> 
>>  Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
>> power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
>> many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.
>> 
>> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
>> when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
>> and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
>> and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
>> down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
>> be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
>> meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
>> volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
>> 90 volts HV.
>> 
>> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
>> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
>> time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
>> sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
>> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>> 
>> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
>> run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
>> it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
>> 73
>> 
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Clay Autery]

Before I left for college and from the time I was a VERY small boy, I
had a "military surplus collection" which included several packs of
"Lucky's" two of which were still part of the rations packs they
came in.  
Additionally, my collection once contained a PRC-25  < making
this radio related.  

Yes, there are many options at this point.  I have used the APC
(consumer and commercial) parts that both monitor/report line voltage
(some even quality in addition), AND regulate it if need be.
I also have a box full of non-networked monitors/loggers that simply
plug in between service and device.

I hope to have an active monitoring system at some point that observes,
reports, and can take remedial actions, but that's way down the list.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 9/5/2017 2:15 PM, Mike Rhodes wrote:
> "a pack of Lucky's" huh? You must be from my generation or maybe even
> a little before. ;-()
> Haven't heard that name in a LONG time Thanks for the info.
>
> 73 de
> Mike / W8DN
>
> On 9/5/2017 2:31 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
>> I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are
>> rated
>> to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free
>> shipping/no
>> tax.
>> They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US
>> blade plug
>> built-in.
>> The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the
>> size of a
>> pack of Lucky's.
>> The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of
>> 24/7
>> use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
>> perfectly readable.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
>> To: Elecraft 
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>>
>> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious
>> but
>> wondering if this is something I should be doing.
>>
>> Mike / W8DN
>>
>> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
>>> Funny you posted this.
>>> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
>> trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS
>> happen.
>>> Always expect the unusual.
>>> Mel, K6KBE
>>>
>>>
>>>     From: David Robertson 
>>>    To: Elecraft 
>>>    Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
>>>    Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>>>  Everyone,
>>>
>>>    Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as
>>> electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be
>>> concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and
>> equipment.
>>> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham
>>> station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I
>>> powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up
>>> the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high
>>> voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line
>>> voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I
>>> rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In
>>> checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up
>>> for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
>>> 90 volts HV.
>>>
>>> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
>>> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A
>>> short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in
>>> the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line
>>> voltage it was
>>> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>>>
>>> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's
>>> locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience
>>> showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every
>>> once
>> in a while.
>>> 73
>>>
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfa

Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Mike Rhodes]

"a pack of Lucky's" huh? You must be from my generation or maybe even a 
little before. ;-()

Haven't heard that name in a LONG time Thanks for the info.

73 de
Mike / W8DN

On 9/5/2017 2:31 PM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:

I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are rated
to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free shipping/no
tax.
They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US blade plug
built-in.
The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the size of a
pack of Lucky's.
The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of 24/7
use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
perfectly readable.

73, Charlie k3ICH



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
To: Elecraft 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but
wondering if this is something I should be doing.

Mike / W8DN

On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

Funny you posted this.
I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to

trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.

Always expect the unusual.
Mel, K6KBE


From: David Robertson 
   To: Elecraft 
   Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
   Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
 
Everyone,


   Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as
electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be
concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and

equipment.

Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham
station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I
powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up
the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high
voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line
voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I
rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In
checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up
for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
90 volts HV.

I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A
short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in
the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line
voltage it was
118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.

In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's
locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience
showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once

in a while.

73


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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Let's close the thread at this time in the interest of relieving reader 
overload. It is well above our normal posting qty limit in a single day.


73,
Eric
Moderator
/elecraft.com/

On 9/5/2017 11:47 AM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

I built up this NEMA box and put the analog current and voltage meters in it.  
That gave me a good platform to build the peak sensing circuit and alarm.  
Since I also have solar bank on the ham equipment, I used the battery to sound 
the alarm when either the voltage goes high or low like in a brown out.  Of 
course that only does good when I am home.
Mel, K6KBE



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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

I built up this NEMA box and put the analog current and voltage meters in it.  
That gave me a good platform to build the peak sensing circuit and alarm.  
Since I also have solar bank on the ham equipment, I used the battery to sound 
the alarm when either the voltage goes high or low like in a brown out.  Of 
course that only does good when I am home.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: "Charlie T, K3ICH" 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 11:37 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
   
I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are rated
to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free shipping/no
tax.
They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US blade plug
built-in.
The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the size of a
pack of Lucky's.
The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of 24/7
use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
perfectly readable.

73, Charlie k3ICH



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
To: Elecraft 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but
wondering if this is something I should be doing.

Mike / W8DN

On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> Funny you posted this.
> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
> Always expect the unusual.
> Mel, K6KBE
>
>
>        From: David Robertson 
>  To: Elecraft 
>  Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
>  Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>    
> Everyone,
>
>  Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as 
> electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be 
> concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and
equipment.
>
> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham 
> station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I 
> powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up 
> the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high 
> voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line 
> voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I 
> rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In 
> checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up 
> for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
> 90 volts HV.
>
> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then 
> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A 
> short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in 
> the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line 
> voltage it was
> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>
> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's 
> locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience 
> showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once
in a while.
> 73
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Tox]

In the past I'd used the APC SmartUPS discussed previously to handle
voltage stability issues. Used the serial output as a datalogger to track
the grid dips (as low as 90v on 115v mains). This was in the mid-90s; I'd
expect there to be a number of other solutions today.

Scott

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH  wrote:

> I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are rated
> to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free shipping/no
> tax.
> They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US blade
> plug
> built-in.
> The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the size of a
> pack of Lucky's.
> The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of 24/7
> use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
> perfectly readable.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
> To: Elecraft 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>
> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but
> wondering if this is something I should be doing.
>
> Mike / W8DN
>
> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> > Funny you posted this.
> > I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
> trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
> > Always expect the unusual.
> > Mel, K6KBE
> >
> >
> >From: David Robertson 
> >   To: Elecraft 
> >   Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
> >   Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
> >
> > Everyone,
> >
> >   Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as
> > electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be
> > concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and
> equipment.
> >
> > Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham
> > station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I
> > powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up
> > the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high
> > voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line
> > voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I
> > rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In
> > checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up
> > for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
> > 90 volts HV.
> >
> > I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
> > called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A
> > short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in
> > the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line
> > voltage it was
> > 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
> >
> > In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's
> > locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience
> > showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once
> in a while.
> > 73
> >
>
> __
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-- 
Scott Small
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

I've bought some little Chicom plug-in Line Voltage monitors that are rated
to run from 80 to 300 VAC for about $5 each through eBay, free shipping/no
tax.
They are completely self-contained with the two prong standard US blade plug
built-in.
The background illumination is blue LED and they're about 1/3 the size of a
pack of Lucky's.
The only problem I've found with them is that after about 5 years of 24/7
use, the background illumination isn't as bright as a new one, but still
perfectly readable.

73, Charlie k3ICH



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 2:12 PM
To: Elecraft 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious but
wondering if this is something I should be doing.

Mike / W8DN

On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> Funny you posted this.
> I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to
trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
> Always expect the unusual.
> Mel, K6KBE
>
>
>From: David Robertson 
>   To: Elecraft 
>   Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
>   Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
> 
> Everyone,
>
>   Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as 
> electrical power, water and other services over time. Well that can be 
> concerning as many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and
equipment.
>
> Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham 
> station when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I 
> powered it down and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up 
> the linear (KPA500) and at once I got a fault light and had a high 
> voltage alert. I powered down the linear and checked my input line 
> voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my imagination I 
> rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same result. In 
> checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set up 
> for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
> 90 volts HV.
>
> I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then 
> called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A 
> short time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in 
> the local sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line 
> voltage it was
> 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
>
> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's 
> locally run power company has been very reliable but this experience 
> showed me that it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once
in a while.
> 73
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Jeremiah Peschka]

I’m using an APC UPS as both backup power and a line conditioner. I found it on 
Amazon for $170 https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B003Y24DEU/

I also keep a second 865W battery backup unit attached to it, just out of 
paranoia.

Jeremiah Peschka
KG7TXV

On Sep 5, 2017, 11:13 -0700, Mike Rhodes , wrote:
> So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious
> but wondering if this is something I should be doing.
>
> Mike / W8DN
>
> On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:
> > Funny you posted this.
> > I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to 
> > trigger either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
> > Always expect the unusual.
> > Mel, K6KBE
> >
> >
> > From: David Robertson  > To: Elecraft  > Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
> >
> > Everyone,
> >
> > Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
> > power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
> > many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.
> >
> > Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
> > when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
> > and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
> > and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
> > down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
> > be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
> > meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
> > volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
> > 90 volts HV.
> >
> > I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
> > called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
> > time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
> > sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
> > 118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.
> >
> > In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
> > run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
> > it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
> > 73
> >
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Mike Rhodes]

So what are people using to monitor their 120/240 mains? Just curious 
but wondering if this is something I should be doing.


Mike / W8DN

On 9/4/2017 1:32 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

Funny you posted this.
I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to trigger either 
line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
Always expect the unusual.
Mel, K6KBE


   From: David Robertson 
  To: Elecraft 
  Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
  Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

Everyone,


  Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.

Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
90 volts HV.

I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.

In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
73



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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[David Woolley]

This appears to be cross-posted between mailing lists, something I would 
not recommend.  I'm dropping the one to which I am not subscribed.


There are two classes of "12V" equipment:

* equipment designed for lead acid batteries, of which amateur radio 
equipment is typical;


* computer equipment.

The former is actually designed for 13.8V with a wide tolerance, 
although mainly downwards.


The latter is designed for 12.0V with a tolerance of maybe 5%, and 
expectations of rather better.  Depending on what it contains, it may 
actually tolerate a rather wider range.


--
David Woolley
K2 06123

On 05/09/17 01:09, Phil Kane wrote:

That is true for Elecraft equipment but I was referring to "generic" 12V
stuff.  For example, some "12 V" things that I use are external disk
drives, powered USB hubs, radio accessories, and computer peripherals of
all sorts.  Some manuals list this, sometimes we are lucky just to get
an instruction sheet with pictures let alone text.


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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[donovanf]

Electric power systems voltage ratings are specified in ANSI C84.1-2016 


For the USA the standard is 120/240 volts +/- 5 percent 

73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Jim Finan"  
To: "Don Wilhelm" , "Elecraft" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 12:11:12 AM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on 

Even the NEC (US National Electrical Code) is inconsistent. There are 
references to 120/240, 125/250, etc. Even 125v, 115v. Don't recall seeing 110v 
lately but it is a thick book and some sections rarely change. 

73, 

Jim 
AB4AC 

Jim Finan 
Sunny South Florida. 



Original Message 
From: donw...@embarqmail.com 
Sent: September 4, 2017 6:41 PM 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Reply-to: donw...@embarqmail.com 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on 

I was at the Shelby, NC hamfest this weekend, and we had the KPA1500 for 
the Elecraft booth. 
I caught myself several times referring to the line voltage required as 
220 even though I know better. 
My age is showing. 

But I do know that if one is operating the KPA1500 in a commercial 
building with 3 phase service, the voltage is 120/208. 
The KPA1500 power supply is a switcher, and most switchers can tolerate 
a wide variation in input AC voltage. 

73, 
Don W3FPR 

On 9/4/2017 6:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote: 
> On 9/4/2017 2:57 PM, Bert Garcia N8NN wrote: 
>> 220 VAC in the US it typically 240 volts or more. 
> 
> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase 
> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are 
> showing our age. :) 
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Jack Brindle]

Let me answer this one by saying that the designers at Elecraft indeed are 
amateur radio operators, but they are some of the best and most professional 
engineers I have had the pleasure of working with. The same goes for the other 
folks who keep things running.

The proof here is in the pudding. Have you seen any issues with the power 
circuitry in Elecraft products?

Didn’t think so.

Jack, W6FB


> On Sep 4, 2017, at 5:12 PM, Christopher Hoover  wrote:
> 
> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
> Some components are rated at that level.
> 
> I hope you are saying that the derating for the components was based on a 15V 
> max input.If there are 15V rated parts on the input rail, that's not good.
> 
> 73 de AI6KG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Jack Brindle  > wrote:
> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
> Some components are rated at that level.
> 
> You really don’t want to go too high or you lose a lot of power dissipated in 
> linear voltage regulators inside the equipment.
> Of course too low and the transmitters can have issues. Things like the KRC2, 
> W2 and other peripherals should be able to
> work pretty well las low as 8 or 9 volts, but they are most happy at the same 
> level as the transceivers.
> 
> - Jack, W6FB
> 
> 
> 
> > On Sep 4, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Phil Kane  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 9/4/2017 3:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >
> >> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase
> >> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are
> >> showing our age. :)
> >
> > And how many sources refer to it as "115 V" or worse "117 V".
> >
> > That raises the (on topic)  question of what is the acceptable
> > excursion/tolerance  standard for equipment designed to run on "12 V DC"
> > in light of the LiFePO4 battery discussion here recently.
> >
> > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> > Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> >
> > From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> > Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
> > __
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> > 
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Dave Cole]

I believe that is correct.  A lot of folks thing that electrons move all 
over an antenna...  They move about an inch...


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 09/04/2017 07:09 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
OK, I have to ask this question seriously even though this thread has 
become a spoof.


Is it really the same electrons that flow from the municipal generator 
to our rigs and then back to the powerhouse again?  I would have guessed 
that any individual electron motivated by an applied voltage would 
simply have moved an atomic diameter or two to fill in a spot in an 
adjacent depleted valence shell, such that a current flow is actually a 
shuffling of electrons from one positive ion to the next, but that 
individual electrons really don’t move very far.  And then they all 
shuffle back the other way every one sixtieth of a second.  Sort of like 
cars on Route 128 around Boston, as I recall from my days there.  On the 
other hand, maybe the uncertainties in the quantum wave function 
preclude our ever knowing an electron’s position anyway, in which case 
the question is moot, right?


For those who care to respond, be kind.  I am a lawyer, not a 
physicist.  I will return the graciousness if anyone has a question 
about the mediaeval origins of the writ of coram nobis.  Off-line, of 
course.


Ted, KN1CBR

On 09/04/2017 01:26 PM, Bob Steding wrote:

*This means that an electric company can sell a customer the same batch of

electricity thousands of times a day and never get caught, since very few

customers take the time to examine their electricity closely. In fact, the

last year any new electricity was generated was 1937.*

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Fred Jensen > wrote:


Yes indeed!  For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have

been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and

charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this ...

the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!!  They get away

with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW

Sparks NV DM09dn

Washoe County


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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Josh Fiden]

Having been an undergraduate physics student, I can tell you that this 
is a problem that every undergraduate physics student has to solve. The 
answer is that all the free electrons in the conductor move. Since 
there's a lot of free electrons in the cross section of a piece of wire, 
they're not moving very fast. OTOH, 1 amp of current is 6x10^18 
electrons flowing past a given point per second, which is an awful lot 
of electrons. So, they are moving much farther than some atomic 
diameters, but if they want to visit the power company, they're going to 
be disappointed. It's called "drift velocity".


73,
Josh W6XU

On 9/4/2017 7:09 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:

Is it really the same electrons that flow from the municipal generator to our 
rigs and then back to the powerhouse again?  I would have guessed that any 
individual electron motivated by an applied voltage would simply have moved an 
atomic diameter or two to fill in a spot in an adjacent depleted valence shell, 
such that a current flow is actually a shuffling of electrons from one positive 
ion to the next, but that individual electrons really don’t move very far.  And 
then they all shuffle back the other way every one sixtieth of a second.


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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Fred Jensen]

Many many years ago, a colleague on my engineering team showed me an 
article entitled, "Where does the electricity go after it leaves the 
toaster."  I do not remember the name of the journal in which it 
appeared, but it was funny, and I've never forgotten the explanation.


The answer to your question is ... "You pretty much answered it," and 
you sound more like a physicist or EE than a lawyer.  My analogy for 
electric current is those little hanging steel ball thingys on some 
overpaid executives' desks:  Pull the end one out and let it drop and 
the far end one shoots out.  It's almost instantaneous, as it is with 
electrons.  You sure feel it if it bangs you in the nose, but it isn't 
the same ball that started it all.  I think the actual drift rate of an 
individual electron, should something like that actually exist, is very 
slow and not very far.


Electrons are a lot like snowflakes ... notwithstanding the urban legend 
that every one is different, I did a year in the northern interior of 
Alaska and rest assured, "Seen one, you've seen 'em all."  I charge my 
LiFePO4 with a solar panel in the hope that eventually it will be full 
of green electrons as opposed to the brown ones it came with.  I've 
started claiming "green power bonus" in little field outings although 
mathematics can only give me a probability that I've replaced all the 
brown ones.  They're all at the bottom of course, I don't discharge the 
battery that far, so I think I'm good here.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/4/2017 7:09 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:


OK, I have to ask this question seriously even though this thread has 
become a spoof.


Is it really the same electrons that flow from the municipal generator 
to our rigs and then back to the powerhouse again?  I would have 
guessed that any individual electron motivated by an applied voltage 
would simply have moved an atomic diameter or two to fill in a spot in 
an adjacent depleted valence shell, such that a current flow is 
actually a shuffling of electrons from one positive ion to the next, 
but that individual electrons really don’t move very far.  And then 
they all shuffle back the other way every one sixtieth of a second.  
Sort of like cars on Route 128 around Boston, as I recall from my days 
there.  On the other hand, maybe the uncertainties in the quantum wave 
function preclude our ever knowing an electron’s position anyway, in 
which case the question is moot, right?


For those who care to respond, be kind.  I am a lawyer, not a 
physicist.  I will return the graciousness if anyone has a question 
about the mediaeval origins of the writ of coram nobis.  Off-line, of 
course.


Ted, KN1CBR




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[Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Dauer, Edward]

OK, I have to ask this question seriously even though this thread has become a 
spoof.

Is it really the same electrons that flow from the municipal generator to our 
rigs and then back to the powerhouse again?  I would have guessed that any 
individual electron motivated by an applied voltage would simply have moved an 
atomic diameter or two to fill in a spot in an adjacent depleted valence shell, 
such that a current flow is actually a shuffling of electrons from one positive 
ion to the next, but that individual electrons really don’t move very far.  And 
then they all shuffle back the other way every one sixtieth of a second.  Sort 
of like cars on Route 128 around Boston, as I recall from my days there.  On 
the other hand, maybe the uncertainties in the quantum wave function preclude 
our ever knowing an electron’s position anyway, in which case the question is 
moot, right?

For those who care to respond, be kind.  I am a lawyer, not a physicist.  I 
will return the graciousness if anyone has a question about the mediaeval 
origins of the writ of coram nobis.  Off-line, of course.

Ted, KN1CBR



On 09/04/2017 01:26 PM, Bob Steding wrote:
*This means that an electric company can sell a customer the same batch of
electricity thousands of times a day and never get caught, since very few
customers take the time to examine their electricity closely. In fact, the
last year any new electricity was generated was 1937.*

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Fred Jensen 
mailto:k6...@foothill.net>> wrote:
Yes indeed!  For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have
been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and
charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this ...
the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!!  They get away
with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County


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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Don Wilhelm]

ch,

I believe you will find that Elecraft designs are conservative.
To use a 15 volt rated capacitor on a 15 volt rail would be foolish.
You will find those capacitors rated at 25 or 50 volts.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/4/2017 9:05 PM, Christopher Hoover wrote:


I hope you are saying that the derating for the components was based on a
15V max input.If there are 15V rated parts on the input rail, that's
not good.



I just took a glance at the K3S schematics to see if I could tell.  Result
was inconclusive.

Notes:


C3 (10 uF), C8 (10 uF) and C22 (470 uF) on the PA I/O board have no voltage
ratings specified on the drawings.

C85 (10 uF) on the DSP power supply has no voltage rating on the drawing.

C52 is 1000 uF / 10V on a regulated 8V rail.   That wouldn't have gotten
past the design reviews I have been subjected to.   Most of the other caps
on the 8V rail(s) are rated for 25V.

All but the 10 uF parts are likely tants or electrolytics.  10 uF could be
those or ceramic.

C102 (10u, 10V) is ceramic and may be unsufficiently derated.  (See the
recent thread on the loss of LCD segments; known problem to Elecraft
support.)

Very few of the low value caps (which are all are probably MLCCs) have a
voltage specified on the drawings.


I probably missed something as It  is hard to do schematic review with
PDFs, but we're lucky to have those.  Thank you, Elecraft!

-ch



On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Christopher Hoover 
wrote:


I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.

Some components are rated at that level.



I hope you are saying that the derating for the components was based on a
15V max input.If there are 15V rated parts on the input rail, that's
not good.

73 de AI6KG




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Jack Brindle  wrote:


I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
Some components are rated at that level.

You really don’t want to go too high or you lose a lot of power
dissipated in linear voltage regulators inside the equipment.
Of course too low and the transmitters can have issues. Things like the
KRC2, W2 and other peripherals should be able to
work pretty well las low as 8 or 9 volts, but they are most happy at the
same level as the transceivers.

- Jack, W6FB




On Sep 4, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:

On 9/4/2017 3:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:


For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase
distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are
showing our age. :)


And how many sources refer to it as "115 V" or worse "117 V".

That raises the (on topic)  question of what is the acceptable
excursion/tolerance  standard for equipment designed to run on "12 V DC"
in light of the LiFePO4 battery discussion here recently.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Christopher Hoover]

>
> I hope you are saying that the derating for the components was based on a
> 15V max input.If there are 15V rated parts on the input rail, that's
> not good.


I just took a glance at the K3S schematics to see if I could tell.  Result
was inconclusive.

Notes:


C3 (10 uF), C8 (10 uF) and C22 (470 uF) on the PA I/O board have no voltage
ratings specified on the drawings.

C85 (10 uF) on the DSP power supply has no voltage rating on the drawing.

C52 is 1000 uF / 10V on a regulated 8V rail.   That wouldn't have gotten
past the design reviews I have been subjected to.   Most of the other caps
on the 8V rail(s) are rated for 25V.

All but the 10 uF parts are likely tants or electrolytics.  10 uF could be
those or ceramic.

C102 (10u, 10V) is ceramic and may be unsufficiently derated.  (See the
recent thread on the loss of LCD segments; known problem to Elecraft
support.)

Very few of the low value caps (which are all are probably MLCCs) have a
voltage specified on the drawings.


I probably missed something as It  is hard to do schematic review with
PDFs, but we're lucky to have those.  Thank you, Elecraft!

-ch



On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Christopher Hoover 
wrote:

> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
>> Some components are rated at that level.
>
>
> I hope you are saying that the derating for the components was based on a
> 15V max input.If there are 15V rated parts on the input rail, that's
> not good.
>
> 73 de AI6KG
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Jack Brindle  wrote:
>
>> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
>> Some components are rated at that level.
>>
>> You really don’t want to go too high or you lose a lot of power
>> dissipated in linear voltage regulators inside the equipment.
>> Of course too low and the transmitters can have issues. Things like the
>> KRC2, W2 and other peripherals should be able to
>> work pretty well las low as 8 or 9 volts, but they are most happy at the
>> same level as the transceivers.
>>
>> - Jack, W6FB
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 4, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:
>> >
>> > On 9/4/2017 3:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> >
>> >> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase
>> >> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are
>> >> showing our age. :)
>> >
>> > And how many sources refer to it as "115 V" or worse "117 V".
>> >
>> > That raises the (on topic)  question of what is the acceptable
>> > excursion/tolerance  standard for equipment designed to run on "12 V DC"
>> > in light of the LiFePO4 battery discussion here recently.
>> >
>> > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
>> > Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
>> >
>> > From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
>> > Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
>> > __
>> > Elecraft mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> > Message delivered to jackbrin...@me.com
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Christopher Hoover]

>
> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
> Some components are rated at that level.


I hope you are saying that the derating for the components was based on a
15V max input.If there are 15V rated parts on the input rail, that's
not good.

73 de AI6KG




On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Jack Brindle  wrote:

> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
> Some components are rated at that level.
>
> You really don’t want to go too high or you lose a lot of power dissipated
> in linear voltage regulators inside the equipment.
> Of course too low and the transmitters can have issues. Things like the
> KRC2, W2 and other peripherals should be able to
> work pretty well las low as 8 or 9 volts, but they are most happy at the
> same level as the transceivers.
>
> - Jack, W6FB
>
>
>
> > On Sep 4, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:
> >
> > On 9/4/2017 3:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >
> >> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase
> >> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are
> >> showing our age. :)
> >
> > And how many sources refer to it as "115 V" or worse "117 V".
> >
> > That raises the (on topic)  question of what is the acceptable
> > excursion/tolerance  standard for equipment designed to run on "12 V DC"
> > in light of the LiFePO4 battery discussion here recently.
> >
> > 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> > Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> >
> > From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> > Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to jackbrin...@me.com
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Jim Finan]

Even the NEC (US National Electrical Code)  is inconsistent. There are 
references to 120/240, 125/250, etc. Even 125v, 115v. Don't recall seeing 110v 
lately but it is a thick book and some sections rarely change. 

73,

Jim
AB4AC 

Jim Finan 
Sunny South Florida. 



  Original Message  
From: donw...@embarqmail.com
Sent: September 4, 2017 6:41 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Reply-to: donw...@embarqmail.com
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

I was at the Shelby, NC hamfest this weekend, and we had the KPA1500 for 
the Elecraft booth.
I caught myself several times referring to the line voltage required as 
220 even though I know better.
My age is showing.

But I do know that if one is operating the KPA1500 in a commercial 
building with 3 phase service, the voltage is 120/208.
The KPA1500 power supply is a switcher, and most switchers can tolerate 
a wide variation in input AC voltage.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/4/2017 6:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 9/4/2017 2:57 PM, Bert Garcia N8NN wrote:
>> 220 VAC in the US it typically 240 volts or more.
> 
> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase 
> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are 
> showing our age. :)
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Phil Kane]

On 9/4/2017 4:49 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:

> I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
> Some components are rated at that level.

That is true for Elecraft equipment but I was referring to "generic" 12V
stuff.  For example, some "12 V" things that I use are external disk
drives, powered USB hubs, radio accessories, and computer peripherals of
all sorts.  Some manuals list this, sometimes we are lucky just to get
an instruction sheet with pictures let alone text.

So far I've been satisfied with my power board set for a "regulated"
level of 14.1 V for transceivers and "float" level (nominally 13.8 V)
for everything else -- but I was wondering.  Maybe it's my power
engineer training  !!

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Jack Brindle]

I can answer that one. It is in the equipment manuals. 15V max.
Some components are rated at that level.

You really don’t want to go too high or you lose a lot of power dissipated in 
linear voltage regulators inside the equipment.
Of course too low and the transmitters can have issues. Things like the KRC2, 
W2 and other peripherals should be able to
work pretty well las low as 8 or 9 volts, but they are most happy at the same 
level as the transceivers.

- Jack, W6FB



> On Sep 4, 2017, at 4:31 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:
> 
> On 9/4/2017 3:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> 
>> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase
>> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are
>> showing our age. :)
> 
> And how many sources refer to it as "115 V" or worse "117 V".
> 
> That raises the (on topic)  question of what is the acceptable
> excursion/tolerance  standard for equipment designed to run on "12 V DC"
> in light of the LiFePO4 battery discussion here recently.
> 
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> 
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Phil Kane]

On 9/4/2017 3:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase
> distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are
> showing our age. :)

And how many sources refer to it as "115 V" or worse "117 V".

That raises the (on topic)  question of what is the acceptable
excursion/tolerance  standard for equipment designed to run on "12 V DC"
in light of the LiFePO4 battery discussion here recently.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Jim Brown]

On 9/4/2017 3:40 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
But I do know that if one is operating the KPA1500 in a commercial 
building with 3 phase service, the voltage is 120/208.


Not always.  In much of the US, power is distributed as "high-leg Delta" 
(sometimes called "wild leg).  Three-phase customers get 240V Delta, 
single phase customers get 120-240 from a center-tapped transformer fed 
by one of the sides of the Delta. Neutral is established by the center 
tap. This configuration is widely used in cities, and is what serves me 
in the Santa Cruz Mountains.


The KPA1500 power supply is a switcher, and most switchers can 
tolerate a wide variation in input AC voltage. 


And the KPA500 power transformer can be tapped for a fairly wide range 
of supply voltages.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Don Wilhelm]

I was at the Shelby, NC hamfest this weekend, and we had the KPA1500 for 
the Elecraft booth.
I caught myself several times referring to the line voltage required as 
220 even though I know better.

My age is showing.

But I do know that if one is operating the KPA1500 in a commercial 
building with 3 phase service, the voltage is 120/208.
The KPA1500 power supply is a switcher, and most switchers can tolerate 
a wide variation in input AC voltage.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/4/2017 6:29 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 9/4/2017 2:57 PM, Bert Garcia N8NN wrote:

220 VAC in the US it typically 240 volts or more.


For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase 
distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are 
showing our age. :)

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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Jim Brown]

On 9/4/2017 2:57 PM, Bert Garcia N8NN wrote:

220 VAC in the US it typically 240 volts or more.


For several decades, 120/240 VAC became the Standard for single-phase 
distribution in North America. Those of us who call call it "110" are 
showing our age. :)


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Dave Cole]

I once read an article where a group was threatening to serial number 
each electrons-- no wait, that was reloading...  Never mind!


73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 09/04/2017 01:26 PM, Bob Steding wrote:

*This means that an electric company can sell a customer the same batch of
electricity thousands of times a day and never get caught, since very few
customers take the time to examine their electricity closely. In fact, the
last year any new electricity was generated was 1937.*

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:


Yes indeed!  For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have
been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and
charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this ...
the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!!  They get away
with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County


From: David Robertson
   To: ElecraftSent: Monday, September 4,
2017 9:39 AM
   Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me
that
it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
73

-- Dave Robertson KD1NA



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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Bert Garcia N8NN]

220 VAC in the US it typically 240 volts or more.  I recommend a Buck Boost 
Transformer to reduce your voltage to 220.  I use Temco model FT2004 from Tower 
Electric Motor Company, Fremont, CA 94538, tel 510-490-2187, 
www.phaseconverter.com.  Haven't had a problem since I installed it ten years 
ago.

Bert N8NN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mike Maloney
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 5:39 PM
To: Mel Farrer ; David Robertson ; 
Elecraft 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

A line voltage monitor/alarm a very good idea.   Am surprised Dave's KPA500 
power transformer core was not humming away at 60hz over excitation before he 
got it off line?Being retired from a large electric utility substation 
department, I know LTC  (load tap changer) controls can sometimes fail.   For 
those on a very rural line it could be an overheadline regulator gone to max 
steps boost (HV) or buck for low voltage.  Usually these are single phase large 
auto-transformers with a plus or minus 10% in 16 steps each side of neutral 
position.  73 Mike AC5P 

On Monday, September 4, 2017 12:33 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft 
 wrote:
 

 Funny you posted this.
I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to trigger 
either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
Always expect the unusual.
Mel, K6KBE


  From: David Robertson 
 To: Elecraft 
 Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
  
Everyone,

 Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical 
power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as many 
hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.

Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station when I 
notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down and retired 
for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500) and at once I 
got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered down the linear and 
checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To be sure it wasn't my 
imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different meter with the same 
result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274 volts! My linear is set 
up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
90 volts HV.

I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then called 
the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short time later 
they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local sub station had 
"Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.

In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally run 
power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that it is 
not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
73

--
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Mike Maloney]

A line voltage monitor/alarm a very good idea.   Am surprised Dave's KPA500 
power transformer core was not humming away at 60hz over excitation before he 
got it off line?Being retired from a large electric utility substation 
department, I know LTC  (load tap changer) controls can sometimes fail.   For 
those on a very rural line it could be an overheadline regulator gone to max 
steps boost (HV) or buck for low voltage.  Usually these are single phase large 
auto-transformers with a plus or minus 10% in 16 steps each side of neutral 
position.  73
Mike AC5P 

On Monday, September 4, 2017 12:33 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft 
 wrote:
 

 Funny you posted this.
I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to trigger 
either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
Always expect the unusual.
Mel, K6KBE


      From: David Robertson 
 To: Elecraft  
 Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
  
Everyone,

 Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.

Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
90 volts HV.

I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.

In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
73

-- 
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Bill Frantz]

We had the power company lose the neutral connection in the 
service to our house in New Hampshire. This meant that the 110 
equipment on one side of the power system was acting as the 
return for the 110 equipment on the other side. When my cousin 
started using a big shop vac, the power strip on the other side 
of the line started smoking as the surge suppressors tried to 
handle the overvoltage situation. It didn't help that he has 
always been taught that electricity is dangerous and you should 
unplug all appliances, including clocks, whenever you leave the 
house for any amount of time. Now he unplugs the religiously.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 9/4/17 at 10:32 AM, elecraft@mailman.qth.net (Mel Farrer via 
Elecraft) wrote:



Funny you posted this.
I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to trigger 
either line >125 or

250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.

Always expect the unusual.
Mel, K6KBE


From: David Robertson 
To: Elecraft  Sent: Monday, September 
4, 2017 9:39 AM

Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

Everyone,

Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.

Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
90 volts HV.

I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.

In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
73


-
Bill Frantz| The first thing you need when  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Bob Steding]

*This means that an electric company can sell a customer the same batch of
electricity thousands of times a day and never get caught, since very few
customers take the time to examine their electricity closely. In fact, the
last year any new electricity was generated was 1937.*

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:

> Yes indeed!  For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have
> been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and
> charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this ...
> the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!!  They get away
> with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
>>From: David Robertson
>>   To: ElecraftSent: Monday, September 4,
>> 2017 9:39 AM
>>   Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>>
>> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
>> run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me
>> that
>> it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
>> 73
>>
>> -- Dave Robertson KD1NA
>>
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Ken K6MR]

Yes, but those electrons are really tired after all the work they did and need 
to go home to rest and regenerate….

Ken K6MR

From: Fred Jensen<mailto:k6...@foothill.net>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 11:05
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net<mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

Yes indeed!  For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have
been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and
charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this
... the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!!  They get
away with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
>From: David Robertson
>   To: Elecraft
>   Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
>   Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
>
>
> In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
> run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
> it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
> 73
>
> -- Dave Robertson KD1NA

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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Fred Jensen]

Yes indeed!  For many years, unscrupulous electric power companies have 
been capitalizing on the fact that they send electrons to our house and 
charge us for them, we toast the bread with them, and then ... get this 
... the electrons we paid for go back to the power company!!  They get 
away with this because none of us ever inspect our electricity closely.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

   From: David Robertson
  To: Elecraft  
  Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM

  Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on



In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
73

-- Dave Robertson KD1NA


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Re: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Funny you posted this.
I monitor BOTH sides of the 110/220 VAC service and have alarms set to trigger 
either line >125 or >250 VAC. Being in the country THINGS happen.
Always expect the unusual.
Mel, K6KBE


  From: David Robertson 
 To: Elecraft  
 Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 9:39 AM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on
   
Everyone,

 Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.

Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
90 volts HV.

I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.

In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
73

-- 
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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[Elecraft] Items you think you can depend on

[David Robertson]

Everyone,

 Over time we can grow complacent on many service items such as electrical
power, water and other services over time. Well that can be concerning as
many hidden changes can result in damage to your home and equipment.

Late late night I came in to my den and was closing down my ham station
when I notice my fault light on my KPA500 linear was on. I powered it down
and retired for the evening. This morning I powered up the linear (KPA500)
and at once I got a fault light and had a high voltage alert. I powered
down the linear and checked my input line voltage. It was 137 volts RMS! To
be sure it wasn't my imagination I rechecked the voltage with a different
meter with the same result. In checking the 220 volt outlet I measured 274
volts! My linear is set up for 220 volts operation and it was getting over
90 volts HV.

I alerted the neighbors and cut the main breaker to the house. I then
called the power company's service number and reported the problem. A short
time later they called me back and reported that a regulator in the local
sub station had "Stuck" and was reset. In rechecking my line voltage it was
118 volts on the low side and 236 volts on the high side.

In the 12 years we have been at this qth we found that our town's locally
run power company has been very reliable but this experience showed me that
it is not a bad idea to check your line voltage every once in a while.
73

-- 
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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