[Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Let me chime in with an opinion and my reasoning. I have been one of the vocal ones about having a transverter I/F which it appears will not be available on the KX3. Understandable; size considerations make adding that difficult. But since the KX3 will run 5-10w 160-6m, if one wanted to use a transverter with a 28-MHz IF, that is doable. Typically the major transverter mfr's have an option for connection to a transceiver running up to 10w. That usually consists of a 10w 50-ohm flange mounted load with capacitive coupling of a few mw to drive the transverter. Pin diodes are used for TR so the transverter bypasses the load in Rx. DEMI offers this option in their line, and one can order the module to retrofit a transverter having separated Tx and Rx IF connections. For microwave transverters, 144-MHz is a favorite IF and that would interface with a KX3 internal 2m transverter, nicely. I would prefer a full-power 2m transverter for regular use on 2m, and either adapt my mw transverters to handle 5-10w, or perhaps Elecraft could add a mw level bypass around the 10w RF module that would offer best of all worlds. But I agree with Oliver that I would chose the full 5/10w 2m transverter over a mw version and forgo the ATU. I suspect that would satisfy most users, either intending use of the KX3 HF/6m only and wanting an ATU or wanting a 2m transverter and able to accept not having an internal ATU. I suspect there would be few buyers of a mw level 2m transverter. For my particular use, The KX3 will probably get used more on 6m and 2m, as I will be selling all my VHF/UHF transceivers to enable buying a KX3. So I need to replace that capability. The transverters I use with the K3 are narrow band on the CW/SSB end and do not cover the FM end. The KX3 is a nice size to replace my 2m mobile. One can add amplifiers for more power in mobile. I bought a compact 35w linear for my FT-817 that packs well in a suitcase along with a mag-mt 2m whip. - Another reason I would go for the 5/10w 2m transverter is I already own a 20mw 144/28 transverter that I bought for my SDR-IQ and is usable as a mw IF. It gets little use except as a mw IF now, as I share the 28-MHz Rx output of my current transverters with both the SDR-IQ and my K3. I have converted my entire transverter line to 28-MHz IF, 144-1296 MHz. Only transverters higher in microwaves use 144-MHz IF and they are run only when portable or as a rover, so are not used with the K3. -- Message: 21 Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 22:57:55 +0200 From: Oliver Dr?se dro...@necg.de Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question.. To: elecraft_mailman.qth.net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: A6EAE713511A495391CE44AE65155757@dh8bqax60 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hi Wayne, please don't sacrifice performance. The internal 2 m transverter should at least have 5 watts output to be useful for normal 2 m applications, 10 W would be even better but I'm not sure this is doable with the space limits. ;-)) A very low power 2 m transverter (10 mW?) is probably not of much use to those who need the transverter for 2 m portable ops (which is very popular in Europe btw.) and these might be the majority of guys wanting the internal transverter. Yes, there are those guys wanting to use it as a microwave I/F radio (me too) which makes perfect sense but especially in this use-case the antenna-tuner f?r HF is usually not needed ;-)). So therefor I would rather prefer a top notch normal transverter with 5 or 10 W (and the possibility to set power as low as 1 or 10 mW for transverter use) and use a T1 externally if I ever needed an antenna matching unit in parallel with the internal transverter. If you'll provide both an internal high power 2 m transverter module *and* (alternatively) an internal ATU with 2 m low power included I will be a happy camper but can still imagine there are folks who don't want to pay for the low power 2 m part in the ATU so you would need a 3rd option being just the tuner without transverter. Not sure that is a good business choice but that is up to you, of course. ;-)) Just wondering if it is worth all the efforts and time investments. But I guess you can never please all at once. ;-)) Anyway, good luck and have fun with the designing tasks. 73, Olli - DH8BQA - Elecraft K3 #4546 w/ K144XV 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@gmail.com == __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Hi Ed, The KX3 is intended to provide support for at least one (and maybe more) external transverters, including a programmable band display and a keying line. Unlike the K3, there won't be separate transverter IN/ OUT jacks; you'll need to use a transverter with a multiplexed RX/TX connector. Drive power, via the HF-6 m antenna jack, will be adjustable down to a minimum of about 100 mW. Further details are TBD. 73, Wayne N6KR On Aug 27, 2011, at 12:16 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote: Let me chime in with an opinion and my reasoning. I have been one of the vocal ones about having a transverter I/F which it appears will not be available on the KX3. Understandable; size considerations make adding that difficult. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
I just want an Elecraft KXM-3 ...HF/2/70 Mobile rig.10/100W Grin... Gary On 27 August 2011 15:13, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: To each his own, but Mike Morrow wrote: In the 45 years I've been around ham radio, the probability that any HF ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small, with the highest probabilities having been 45 years ago, not today A few years ago a ham in Oregon broke his leg hiking. He used a KX1 to call rescuers. I'm not kidding. VHF/UHF doesn't work at all in many mountainous areas, at least if you're down in a hole between peaks. For that matter, there are wide stretches of the West with no repeaters. NVIS on 40 m with a wire-in-a- tree or a backpacking dipole will often do the job with just a few watts. The clincher is that the end of the world is coming (!). I heard this on a shortwave station, thanks to the KX3's general coverage receive. An emergency HF radio would, in any event, need to be resistent to harm from adverse environmental conditions *while in operation*. Around here the most likely emergency that would cut off communications is an earthquake. Small radios stored in bags are likely to survive and be quite useful. It's buildings that suffer. An emergency HF radio should also *not* be a QRP rig...at least no rig *designated* as an emergency radio. I routinely check into a 40-m net and get good reports during the daytime with a short antenna 15' off the ground and 5 watts. HFpackers often running 10 W or less check into daily nets on 17 m and 20 m and work stations thousands of miles away. If there's a will, there's a way, and QRP will often get through. Even when it doesn't, it's fun trying. An emergency HF radio should also have sufficient battery capacity for more than just a few hours of intermittent operation. Depends on what you mean by intermittent. If my KX3 gives me 10 hours of casual operation at 3 watts from a 2500-mAhr battery, surely I could maintain useful communications during an emergency by being even more judicious with my transmit time. That said, a small, collapsable solar panel would be an excellent addition to the station. It can power the KX3's internal battery charger. On a *short* hike, carrying a 4 AH battery which prudence mandates won't be much of an impediment. I've done that many times, even when I used SWL's small DSW-20, -30, and -40 units. I travel *really* light. On day hikes my entire station weighs about 1.5 to 2 lbs, allowing me to carry two cans of beer rather than one. On a long hike and overnight stay, a 4 AH battery will be mandatory, unless one enjoys the dead weight of the KX3 and antenna after the internal batteries are depleted. 5-10 hours of operation from a charged 2500 mA internal battery is sufficient for all but the most boring business trips or hikes. I'm usually hiking (or businessing) a lot more than hamming. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
I can't argue with the reasoning from either side of the camp here - if I was in the US, but I'm not... I'm in the UK, 30m west of London in the M4 (that’s highway/freeway, think 101) corridor with suburbia all around, houses in the 'country' as close or closer than those in a NY suburb and VHF/UHF is likely to be of more use in an emergency. If I plan to go portable on some trail, that's a good 45 mins to the nearest quiet spot, I'd be planning that and taking something like an 4Ah gel cell and a tent. If I want to hike up a mountain, that's 2 to 3 hrs to something 'not small' and 5 hrs to something equivalent to one of your local small mountain ranges (we don't do 'big' here). I still like the idea of the KX3, I can see uses for it here in both HF and VHF, but in my own mind I was thinking 'great 2M rig with fantastic frontend', to drive a 100W PA for our 2M contests at my alternative QTH - with mains power and a permanent mast. A lot less messing about than disconnecting the K3, XV144 etc and putting it in the car to go the 2 miles to that location (a Scout HQ on higher ground where we have erected a small mast and 2m beam). I can see running SOTA with it as HF and then, yes;, light, minimal kit, ATU etc. would be great, but I don't do SOTA and as I say, for anything worth the climb, it's a good 4 to 5 hrs away. If I want HF, I'll want an ATU as well, so I'll have to remove the 2M - I don't think the intention is to plug and play with these on a regular basis. So to me, although very useful, an internal battery is not an inherent part of the rig, but a good 2m module will be. Guess I may end up buying 2! As Wayne says, each to his own... 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108, KX3 #??? -- The trees that are slow to grow bear the best fruit. -Moliere, actor and playwright (1622-1673) On 27 Aug 2011, at 06:13, Wayne Burdick wrote: To each his own, but Mike Morrow wrote: In the 45 years I've been around ham radio, the probability that any HF ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small, with the highest probabilities having been 45 years ago, not today A few years ago a ham in Oregon broke his leg hiking. He used a KX1 to call rescuers. I'm not kidding. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
We were thinking along the lines of 200-500 mW for the micro transverter, if it's even possible. The regular transverter option could be as high as 5 W. We'll see. Wayne N6KR Now that sounds interesting. I run a bunch of microwave transverters from a 2m IF at 50-100 mW and have found no simple replacement for my old FT-290R IF radio (other than a second FT-290R), used at the low power setting. They are nearing 30 years of age and aren't going to last forever. I don't like the use of a higher power radio turned down due to the danger of inadvertantly transmitting into the transverter at higher power, or of high power transients. Plus the FT-290R draws very little current on receive (~75 mA, no signal, no dial light) which is useful in portable operations. I currently use them on 1296 MHz (ancient Microwave Modules transverter), 2.3/3.4/5.7/24 GHz (homebrew transverters) and 10 GHz (Kuhne/DB6NT MKU10G2 transverter), with the transverters switched by the +6.8V (through a resistor) that the FT-290R puts on the antenna connector in transmit. Elecraft might consider making available a DC control voltage like this available on such a low power transverter (with the equivalent of the K2's 8R HOLD mode to avoid relay chatter in the transverter). It wuld be nice to have a newer option ! 73, Steve VE3SMA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
I believe that there was a miss communication here. When people were were suggesting that the internal battery area in the KX3 be used for a full power 2 meter transmitter, they weren't just asking that that the battery compartment be permanently removed. I believe what some were asking for, was the ability to remove the battery pack and then have access to an additional 'hook' that would ALSO provided the ability to attach a full power 2 meter module. This could allow for both types of operations. For those that do want the internal battery, they could use the standard 'hook' for the 2m module, and remove the ATU from it's intended location, thereby allowing the battery to be installed.. Of course this means a duplicate flex cable that terminates to a 'hook' board where it could sit in the unused battery compartment (and be removed with some ease).. This of course also means that Elecraft has one more option 'board/bracket' to sell you... Another thing I would like to see, and this goes for the K3 as well, is the ability to turn off the Backlight, AND be able to turn off the LED's as well. The LEDs need only to be on for Delta mode (split) etc, and don't need to be seen at all times. For those that do want them on all the time, it would still be nice if we were able to dim them down to the lowest setting (as they do when the backlight is on) In my opinion this would help save energy and LEDs when someone is using their rig portable, or in a 'remote' setup, and wants to leave it on 24/7 as I do when I travel. I would rather not have the LEDs burning needlessly if I'm not there to see them. Especially since their going at full brightness in the 'day' mode. Just my 2 cents, Michael N6MQL On 8/27/2011 9:00 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote: e: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question... -- Michael Aretsky N6MQL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...and Internal Battery Compartment Design
I wrote: ...that any HF ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small... Wayne wrote: A few years ago a ham in Oregon broke his leg hiking. He used a KX1 to call rescuers. I'm not kidding. That was W7AU in 2008. It was an impressive use of the KX1. Another party of hikers put the antenna up for him, he then let them proceed on. Afterwards, it took several hours of calling before getting a reply. All in all, the operation had some rough edges, had the emergency been really threatening! I also have some similar real-life experience. In 1998 on a solitary day-hike in Alabama's Sipsey Wilderness, through mis-step I broke both bones in my left lower leg. Such events are common every year, given the many millons of miles hiked in thousands of remote locations in North America. I just did what most have always done...I crawled for what seemed a *real* long time until I got to a trailhead. I was far more thankful for the water I carried than for the radio. Fortunately some high school kids came by and got me to the nearest hospital. (No muss, no fuss, no rescue squads, no Forest Service paperwork!) VHF/UHF doesn't work at all in many mountainous areas, at least if you're down in a hole between peaks. For that matter, there are wide stretches of the West with no repeaters. I had my FT-50R HT, but no ham repeaters were accessible, nor was there cell coverage. Since my non-compound fractures were not all that serious, I was not tempted to try use of Forest Service or Sheriff's Department repeaters. My point with this story is that these events are not rare. When ham radio helps, it seems always to be more a matter of convenience rather than having any real effect on the *final* outcome. BTW, if I'd have had an HF QRP rig with me, I still would not have attempted to put it into service. That would have been challenging and, more importantly, potentially dangerous. Simple breaks can easily become compound fractures during the activity that would be required. I heard this on a shortwave station, thanks to the KX3's general coverage receive. That capability is just one of the characteristics that make the KX3 such an exciting product. I hope to have mine before the Mayan Apocalypse, which I understand is a state holiday in California. :-) I wrote: An emergency HF radio would, in any event, need to be resistent to harm from adverse environmental conditions *while in operation*. Wayne wrote: Around here the most likely emergency that would cut off communications is an earthquake. Small radios stored in bags are likely to survive and be quite useful. I did not mean to find fault in the hardening of the KX3 against adverse environmental effects. The vast vast majority of all commercial HF ham transceivers ever made do no better, or not as well. I wrote: An emergency HF radio should also *not* be a QRP rig...at least no rig *designated* as an emergency radio. Wayne wrote: ...QRP will often get through. Even when it doesn't, it's fun trying. But that's not the point of emergency service. Power is *always* a blessing in real emergency communications. QRP success requires effort and skill on the part of the receiving party, not the transmitting party (an awkward QRP'er's secret). Though, in an emergency it is the transmitting party that will be the one hurt. I wrote: An emergency HF radio should also have sufficient battery capacity for more than just a few hours of intermittent operation. Wayne wrote: If my KX3 gives me 10 hours of casual operation at 3 watts...surely I could maintain useful communications during an emergency by being even more judicious with my transmit time. Ah, yes. But wouldn't it have been better to have stocked a 4 or 7 AH SLA for external use? Wayne wrote: That said, a small, collapsable solar panel would be an excellent addition to the station. It can power the KX3's internal battery charger. That would be an excellent accessory in the Elecraft product line. But this brings me back to what is, IMHO, *the* most important issue of internal batteries. I asked: What sort of chemical barrier will exist between the battery and the internals of the KX3 to prevent damage in the event of outgassing or leakage of chemical contaminants from the battery? If there won't be an impermeable compartment, that alone says Better keep the chemistry outside the radio! That is the **real** concern about internal batteries in *any* rig. Thanks for your replies, Wayne. I'm not in any way being critical of the most stunningly impressive radio that has ever been proposed for the hiking, camping, and backpacking ham. It may take you all a year to work through the initial order backlog! My order will be there too. 73, Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
This is exactly what I have wanted since the KX1. I own the FT817 and the battery issue is just that... an issue. With 6m SSB and all the low bands in the KX3, it fills all I could ever hope for in a portable, especially with the planned add-ins. Plug in units in the battery compartment could serve as additional add-ins to make greater flexibility for future updates which the user could purchase. I have enjoyed the portable operation of the FT-817 with the options of additional SSB filter and DSP along with the latest NIMH battery technology, but I would abandon this in a moment for the KX3 design when successfully implemented. Having 2 meter FM is not my requirement. I have a TH72d and TS2000 for playing around and the TH72d takes care of my VHF UHF needs as a portable station including APRS and Packet. 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:16 PM To: David Ferrington, M0XDF Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question... On Aug 26, 2011, at 4:01 PM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: ...might even be able to put the 100w PA in place of the battery Unfortunately, no. The KX3's normal low-pass filters are rated at 15 W, as is the ATU. The battery is very important; it makes the KX3 an all-in-one unit that you can quickly deploy in an emergency, take on a short hike, toss into a very small small corner of your suitcase, etc. It's an inherent part of the product. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Is there any feedback from the Beta Tester(s) regarding battery life under operational conditions? Inquiring minds, etc... -- Dave G KK7SS Richland, WA '59 Morris Minor 1000 - working on it.. '65 Sprite - in process :( '76 Midget - co-owned with #4 Son :) '06 Honda Civic Hybrid __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Field testing hasn't officially started yet, other than testing of the four units in use by the design team. But I can give you some estimates. Receive-mode current drain will typically be 130-170 mA depending on supply voltage, backlight level, whether the preamp is on, etc. So a 2500 milliamp-hour internal 8-AA battery pack would provide an average of about 16 hours of continuous use. This is 2 to 3 times what you'd get with other small all-band/all-mode radios that consume ~350-450 mA in receive mode. Transmit current varies with power level, band, supply voltage and other factors, but in general it's about 1 amp at 5 watts and 2 amps at 10 watts. At 10 W, you could probably run for 10-20 hours from a 12V 7AH battery, assuming typical hunt-and-pounce or casual operation. Transceive operating time from an internal battery will be determined by voltage or energy-density limitations of the 8 AA cells being used. You'd probably be transmitting something like 10% of the time (good QRP practice). Assuming a 2500 mA-hr pack, 1 A current drain in TX mode, and 150 mA RX, you might get as many as 10 hours of casual operation. 73, Wayne N6KR On Aug 26, 2011, at 10:13 AM, Dave KK7SS wrote: Is there any feedback from the Beta Tester(s) regarding battery life under operational conditions? Inquiring minds, etc... -- Dave G KK7SS Richland, WA '59 Morris Minor 1000 - working on it.. '65 Sprite - in process :( '76 Midget - co-owned with #4 Son :) '06 Honda Civic Hybrid __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Wayne, Fabulous VBG Sounds perfect for the operating conditions I'm considering - portable, 5W, internal pack, 2M, ATU and ??? Many thanks... (still drooling!) -- Dave G KK7SS Richland, WA '59 Morris Minor 1000 - working on it.. '65 Sprite - in process :( '76 Midget - co-owned with #4 Son :) '06 Honda Civic Hybrid - Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com wrote: Receive-mode current drain will typically be 130-170 mA depending on supply voltage, backlight level, whether the preamp is on, etc. So a 2500 milliamp-hour internal 8-AA battery pack would provide an average of about 16 hours of continuous use. This is 2 to 3 times what you'd get with other small all-band/all-mode radios that consume ~350-450 mA in receive mode. Transmit current varies with power level, band, supply voltage and other factors, but in general it's about 1 amp at 5 watts and 2 amps at 10 watts. At 10 W, you could probably run for 10-20 hours from a 12V 7AH battery, assuming typical hunt-and-pounce or casual operation. Transceive operating time from an internal battery will be determined by voltage or energy-density limitations of the 8 AA cells being used. You'd probably be transmitting something like 10% of the time (good QRP practice). Assuming a 2500 mA-hr pack, 1 A current drain in TX mode, and 150 mA RX, you might get as many as 10 hours of casual operation. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Dave KK7SS wrote: Fabulous VBG Sounds perfect for the operating conditions I'm considering - portable, 5W, internal pack, 2M, ATU and ??? Hi Dave, As I mentioned awhile back, the internal 2-meter option and the internal ATU are probably going to be mutually-exclusive. You could always use an Elecraft T1 miniature wide-range ATU if you needed both at the same time. That said, we're going to experiment with a very low-power-output 2-m transverter that might be small enough to include with the internal ATU. No guarantees. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Hi Wayne, please don't sacrifice performance. The internal 2 m transverter should at least have 5 watts output to be useful for normal 2 m applications, 10 W would be even better but I'm not sure this is doable with the space limits. ;-)) A very low power 2 m transverter (10 mW?) is probably not of much use to those who need the transverter for 2 m portable ops (which is very popular in Europe btw.) and these might be the majority of guys wanting the internal transverter. Yes, there are those guys wanting to use it as a microwave I/F radio (me too) which makes perfect sense but especially in this use-case the antenna-tuner für HF is usually not needed ;-)). So therefor I would rather prefer a top notch normal transverter with 5 or 10 W (and the possibility to set power as low as 1 or 10 mW for transverter use) and use a T1 externally if I ever needed an antenna matching unit in parallel with the internal transverter. If you'll provide both an internal high power 2 m transverter module *and* (alternatively) an internal ATU with 2 m low power included I will be a happy camper but can still imagine there are folks who don't want to pay for the low power 2 m part in the ATU so you would need a 3rd option being just the tuner without transverter. Not sure that is a good business choice but that is up to you, of course. ;-)) Just wondering if it is worth all the efforts and time investments. But I guess you can never please all at once. ;-)) Anyway, good luck and have fun with the designing tasks. 73, Olli - DH8BQA - Elecraft K3 #4546 w/ K144XV As I mentioned awhile back, the internal 2-meter option and the internal ATU are probably going to be mutually-exclusive. You could always use an Elecraft T1 miniature wide-range ATU if you needed both at the same time. That said, we're going to experiment with a very low-power-output 2-m transverter that might be small enough to include with the internal ATU. No guarantees. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
When I lived in the SF Bay area I carried a 2-meter FM HT that I could use to access several repeaters in the area running 100 mW into a 5/8 wave mag-mount on the car. One of my favorite bits of fun with it was that whenever I was on top of Mount Diablo to service a commercial repeater, I'd take a few minutes to listen on the HT. I often worked mobiles in Sacramento, San Francisco, or San Jose, all between 40 and 60 miles away, running 100 mW, and often got full quieting reports! They were always astonished at the simplex signal strength, especially since most were running similar antennas and some were using rubber duckies in their cars. And that was with FM, which is clearly not the best weak-signal mode by a long shot! I would guess that places like 3800 foot Mt. Diablo would be ideal to run a KX3 portable. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- That said, we're going to experiment with a very low-power-output 2-m transverter that might be small enough to include with the internal ATU. No guarantees. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
We were thinking along the lines of 200-500 mW for the micro transverter, if it's even possible. The regular transverter option could be as high as 5 W. We'll see. Wayne N6KR On Aug 26, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Oliver Dröse wrote: Hi Wayne, please don't sacrifice performance. The internal 2 m transverter should at least have 5 watts output to be useful for normal 2 m applications, 10 W would be even better but I'm not sure this is doable with the space limits. ;-)) A very low power 2 m transverter (10 mW?) is probably not of much use to those who need the transverter for 2 m portable ops (which is very popular in Europe btw.) and these might be the majority of guys wanting the internal transverter. Yes, there are those guys wanting to use it as a microwave I/F radio (me too) which makes perfect sense but especially in this use- case the antenna-tuner für HF is usually not needed ;-)). So therefor I would rather prefer a top notch normal transverter with 5 or 10 W (and the possibility to set power as low as 1 or 10 mW for transverter use) and use a T1 externally if I ever needed an antenna matching unit in parallel with the internal transverter. If you'll provide both an internal high power 2 m transverter module *and* (alternatively) an internal ATU with 2 m low power included I will be a happy camper but can still imagine there are folks who don't want to pay for the low power 2 m part in the ATU so you would need a 3rd option being just the tuner without transverter. Not sure that is a good business choice but that is up to you, of course. ;-)) Just wondering if it is worth all the efforts and time investments. But I guess you can never please all at once. ;-)) Anyway, good luck and have fun with the designing tasks. 73, Olli - DH8BQA - Elecraft K3 #4546 w/ K144XV As I mentioned awhile back, the internal 2-meter option and the internal ATU are probably going to be mutually-exclusive. You could always use an Elecraft T1 miniature wide-range ATU if you needed both at the same time. That said, we're going to experiment with a very low-power-output 2-m transverter that might be small enough to include with the internal ATU. No guarantees. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Ah - good news since ATU is paramount to me, but 2m is important too 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108, KX3 #??? -- Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. But I'm not so sure about the universe. -- Albert Einstein. On 26 Aug 2011, at 21:34, Wayne Burdick wrote: Dave KK7SS wrote: Fabulous VBG Sounds perfect for the operating conditions I'm considering - portable, 5W, internal pack, 2M, ATU and ??? Hi Dave, As I mentioned awhile back, the internal 2-meter option and the internal ATU are probably going to be mutually-exclusive. You could always use an Elecraft T1 miniature wide-range ATU if you needed both at the same time. That said, we're going to experiment with a very low-power-output 2-m transverter that might be small enough to include with the internal ATU. No guarantees. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Hard choices all around! I, too, am looking forward to having a single rig that I can use for HF-2m field ops, and would end up giving up the ATU for 2m. 'Course, I'd rather give up the internal batteries and have both 2m and an HF ATU :). Everyone's style is different. On Fri, 26 Aug 2011, Wayne Burdick wrote: Dave KK7SS wrote: Fabulous VBG Sounds perfect for the operating conditions I'm considering - portable, 5W, internal pack, 2M, ATU and ??? Hi Dave, As I mentioned awhile back, the internal 2-meter option and the internal ATU are probably going to be mutually-exclusive. You could always use an Elecraft T1 miniature wide-range ATU if you needed both at the same time. That said, we're going to experiment with a very low-power-output 2-m transverter that might be small enough to include with the internal ATU. No guarantees. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
Jessie Oberreuter wrote: I, too, am looking forward to having a single rig that I can use for HF-2m field ops, and would end up giving up the ATU for 2m. I could easily do without two-meter capability on the KX3. About all I (rarely) use VHF or UHF for is FM mode, and I like to be able to use that independent of what the HF rig is doing. In any event, I'd still need to carry an HT like the extremely small Yaesu VX-3R to have both two-meter, 70-cm, weather, and public service frequencies covered. I'd rather give up the internal batteries and have both 2m and an HF ATU. I see internal batteries in anything like a K1, KX1, or KX3 as having nothing but novelty value. (I removed the KBT1 from my K1 after a year of use.) In something like the unfortunate Yaesu FT-817, it's the height of foolishness. Any real period of operation will require at least an external 4 AH SLA battery. I'd be *very* happy if no internal KX3 space was wasted accomodating internal batteries. Put other options in the vacated space. Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
Well, I have to say, the possibility of putting options in the battery space, making the internal battery an option, appeals to me too. Then a good 2m transverter could go in the battery space and still be room for the ATU, might even be able to put the 100w PA in place of the battery, which seems to make sense, since the internal battery wouldn't last long with a PA 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174, P3 #108, KX3 #??? No one is useless in this world who lightens the burden of it for anyone else. -Charles Dickens, novelist (1812-1870) On 26 Aug 2011, at 23:20, Mike Morrow wrote: Jessie Oberreuter wrote: I, too, am looking forward to having a single rig that I can use for HF-2m field ops, and would end up giving up the ATU for 2m. I could easily do without two-meter capability on the KX3. About all I (rarely) use VHF or UHF for is FM mode, and I like to be able to use that independent of what the HF rig is doing. In any event, I'd still need to carry an HT like the extremely small Yaesu VX-3R to have both two-meter, 70-cm, weather, and public service frequencies covered. I'd rather give up the internal batteries and have both 2m and an HF ATU. I see internal batteries in anything like a K1, KX1, or KX3 as having nothing but novelty value. (I removed the KBT1 from my K1 after a year of use.) In something like the unfortunate Yaesu FT-817, it's the height of foolishness. Any real period of operation will require at least an external 4 AH SLA battery. I'd be *very* happy if no internal KX3 space was wasted accomodating internal batteries. Put other options in the vacated space. Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
On Aug 26, 2011, at 4:01 PM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: ...might even be able to put the 100w PA in place of the battery Unfortunately, no. The KX3's normal low-pass filters are rated at 15 W, as is the ATU. The battery is very important; it makes the KX3 an all-in-one unit that you can quickly deploy in an emergency, take on a short hike, toss into a very small small corner of your suitcase, etc. It's an inherent part of the product. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
No Guarantees?? No Sweat ! Grin I'm sure I'll be able to live with whatever comes out of the think-tank ;) -- Dave G KK7SS Richland, WA '59 Morris Minor 1000 - working on it.. '65 Sprite - in process :( '76 Midget - co-owned with #4 Son :) '06 Honda Civic Hybrid __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question..
Make that the possible-practical tank. The think-tank can contain many things that are great ideas, but are not possible given the limitations of cost to the end-buyer coupled with the profits due to the developers. We have to live in the real world, and that is not the ideal world in all cases. All designs have constraints. I would like to have a 1.5 KW amp in an enclosure of 3 cubic inches - while that is possible IF I can get rid of the heat, it is just not practical at ambient temperatures. 73, Don W3FPR On 8/26/2011 8:08 PM, Dave KK7SS wrote: No Guarantees?? No Sweat !Grin I'm sure I'll be able to live with whatever comes out of the think-tank ;) -- Dave G KK7SS Richland, WA '59 Morris Minor 1000 - working on it.. '65 Sprite - in process :( '76 Midget - co-owned with #4 Son :) '06 Honda Civic Hybrid __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
I take my KX1 on backpacking trips, and see internal batteries in anything like a KX1 or KX3 as indispensable! Internal battery power helps to keep rig setup quick and easy. I like using internal AA lithium batteries in the KX1 because they are light weight and will power the rig for a very long time. Bob NW8L I see internal batteries in anything like a K1, KX1, or KX3 as having nothing but novelty value. (I removed the KBT1 from my K1 after a year of use.) In something like the unfortunate Yaesu FT-817, it's the height of foolishness. Any real period of operation will require at least an external 4 AH SLA battery. I'd be *very* happy if no internal KX3 space was wasted accomodating internal batteries. Put other options in the vacated space. Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
None of the arguments below will change anyone's outlook, but... Wayne wrote: The battery is very important; it makes the KX3 an all-in-one unit that you can quickly deploy in an emergency, ... In the 45 years I've been around ham radio, the probability that any HF ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small, with the highest probabilities having been 45 years ago, not today. VHF or UHF FM use in an emergency is far more likely (but still even that's a very small probability). A module for two-meter FM in place of the battery would be a far better use of limited space, if an emergency-use argument is to have any credence. An emergency HF radio would, in any event, need to be resistent to harm from adverse environmental conditions *while in operation*. I don't think the KX3 will meet that minimally, at least as I've seen it at Dayton and Huntsville. An emergency HF radio should also *not* be a QRP rig...at least no rig *designated* as an emergency radio. An emergency HF radio should also have sufficient battery capacity for more than just a few hours of intermittent operation. ... take on a short hike, ... On a *short* hike, carrying a 4 AH battery which prudence mandates won't be much of an impediment. I've done that many times, even when I used SWL's small DSW-20, -30, and -40 units. On a long hike and overnight stay, a 4 AH battery will be mandatory, unless one enjoys the dead weight of the KX3 and antenna after the internal batteries are depleted. ... toss into a very small small corner of your suitcase, etc. ... If the worry is the requirements for airline transport and TSA vs. a SLA battery, then an *external* 10-AA cell battery pack serves well. At least in my experience it has after I removed the KBT1 from my K1. ... It's an inherent part of the product. It won't be at KK5F. Because the most important issue follows next: What sort of chemical barrier will exist between the battery and the internals of the KX3 to prevent damage in the event of outgassing or leakage of chemical contaminants from the battery? If there won't be an impermeable compartment, that alone says Better keep the chemistry outside the radio! IMHO, of course. But...I'm looking forward to the KX3. It's the most exciting product I've seen in *all* my years in ham radio. My comments are not meant as an attempt to trigger *any* design change from whatever is now planned. At some point, an excellent product has to have its design frozen, regardless of continuing clamor from the unwashed. :-) Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Batttery life question...
To each his own, but Mike Morrow wrote: In the 45 years I've been around ham radio, the probability that any HF ham rig would be used in an emergency has been vanishingly small, with the highest probabilities having been 45 years ago, not today A few years ago a ham in Oregon broke his leg hiking. He used a KX1 to call rescuers. I'm not kidding. VHF/UHF doesn't work at all in many mountainous areas, at least if you're down in a hole between peaks. For that matter, there are wide stretches of the West with no repeaters. NVIS on 40 m with a wire-in-a- tree or a backpacking dipole will often do the job with just a few watts. The clincher is that the end of the world is coming (!). I heard this on a shortwave station, thanks to the KX3's general coverage receive. An emergency HF radio would, in any event, need to be resistent to harm from adverse environmental conditions *while in operation*. Around here the most likely emergency that would cut off communications is an earthquake. Small radios stored in bags are likely to survive and be quite useful. It's buildings that suffer. An emergency HF radio should also *not* be a QRP rig...at least no rig *designated* as an emergency radio. I routinely check into a 40-m net and get good reports during the daytime with a short antenna 15' off the ground and 5 watts. HFpackers often running 10 W or less check into daily nets on 17 m and 20 m and work stations thousands of miles away. If there's a will, there's a way, and QRP will often get through. Even when it doesn't, it's fun trying. An emergency HF radio should also have sufficient battery capacity for more than just a few hours of intermittent operation. Depends on what you mean by intermittent. If my KX3 gives me 10 hours of casual operation at 3 watts from a 2500-mAhr battery, surely I could maintain useful communications during an emergency by being even more judicious with my transmit time. That said, a small, collapsable solar panel would be an excellent addition to the station. It can power the KX3's internal battery charger. On a *short* hike, carrying a 4 AH battery which prudence mandates won't be much of an impediment. I've done that many times, even when I used SWL's small DSW-20, -30, and -40 units. I travel *really* light. On day hikes my entire station weighs about 1.5 to 2 lbs, allowing me to carry two cans of beer rather than one. On a long hike and overnight stay, a 4 AH battery will be mandatory, unless one enjoys the dead weight of the KX3 and antenna after the internal batteries are depleted. 5-10 hours of operation from a charged 2500 mA internal battery is sufficient for all but the most boring business trips or hikes. I'm usually hiking (or businessing) a lot more than hamming. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
