Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Dave B via Elecraft]

Really?

Remote operating (as in remote from civilization) is a common usage for
a lot of Elecrafters, so it's highly relevant.

There are subjects way more off topic that run on this list, often for
days/weeks.  You don't moderate them it seems.

73

Dave G0WBX.


On 17/06/17 15:34, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync
> Message-ID: <f6ff3d12-1183-af7d-dcdc-b6f2626d1...@elecraft.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Let's wind this down now and end the thread.
>
> Lots of good info, but its way exceeding the OT posting limit of 5-10.   
> PLEASE 
> self-moderate on threads as they get longer and take extended discussions 
> off-list to direct email after 5-10 posts to relieve email overload for 
> others.
>
> 73,
> Eric
> Mooderator etc.
> /elecraft.com/

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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Dave B via Elecraft]

Because some modes start a transmission on a UTC minute boundary, +- a
second(ish)

The RX software records for a fixed length of time, then examines the
recording to extract the data.

If a transmission starts late or early by too much, the data wont be
decoded.

73.

Dave G0WBX.


On 17/06/17 15:34, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> Subject: [Elecraft]  Remote Operating Time Sync
> Message-ID: <34bc96f6211f96522da09cad75bfcc41.squir...@www11.qth.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>
> Why is accurate time important with these modes?
>
> John KK9A

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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Edward R Cole]

Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 10:36:00 -0400
From: "j...@kk9a.com" <j...@kk9a.com>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft]  Remote Operating Time Sync
Message-ID: <34bc96f6211f96522da09cad75bfcc41.squir...@www11.qth.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8

Why is accurate time important with these modes?

John KK9A
--
I know Eric moderated this topic so I will be brief, but all comments 
so far danced around the reason you need accurate time for WSJT modes.
These are synchronous digital modes to both stations computers need 
to know when the start of the message begins.


I use a simple cheap GPS with USB dongle plugged directly into my 
computer and run BktTimeSync by IZ2BKT.  You can choose either NTP 
time servers or take the time from the GPS without needing internet connection.


Write me off list for details.


73, Ed - KL7UW
  http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
  dubus...@gmail.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Let's wind this down now and end the thread.

Lots of good info, but its way exceeding the OT posting limit of 5-10.   PLEASE 
self-moderate on threads as they get longer and take extended discussions 
off-list to direct email after 5-10 posts to relieve email overload for others.


73,
Eric
Mooderator etc.
/elecraft.com/


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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[James Bennett]

Excellent While the ARRL Arduino project may also work, I’m a lot more 
familiar with the RPi, as I have a model 3 running here at home for my data 
QSOs with the KX3. As I mentioned in my original post, the need is for 
something I can take with me out in the field, so I’d also need to scrounge up 
a way to power the RPi from either 220vac (standard in the Philippines) or a 
13.8vdc supply (standard on my high sierra camping trips!). When I get some 
time I’ll look at that web site in more detail - a cursory glance looked great.

Tnx, Jim

Jim Bennett / W6JHB
Folsom, CA






> On Jun 15, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> Personally, I think you'd be better served using Raspberry Pi approach. 
> See the website I put down in my other post...  Nah, here it is
> again...  Do yourself a favor and read this guy's site...
> 
> http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> 
> On 6/15/2017 3:51 PM, James Bennett wrote:
>> So, I’m thinking my best bet would be to go with some sort of GPS/NTP 
>> arrangement. To that end, I’ve ordered a copy of the ARRL Arduino book one 
>> of you pointed out to me.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,6/16/2017 7:36 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

Why is accurate time important with these modes?


It's not important with all of them, but some, like JT65 and JT9, that 
use very strong error correction use algorithms that are somehow linked 
to start times. Other modes like MSK144 designed for meteor scatter 
don't care about time, but instead are looking for the data repeated at 
very short intervals so that you can get it in a very brief reflection.


It's worth the time to read through K1JT's excellent help file for 
WSJT-X, which describes the various modes.


73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[j...@kk9a.com]

Why is accurate time important with these modes?

John KK9A


On Thu,6/15/2017 11:59 AM, Matthew George wrote:
>   The jt modes will be fine even if you are a second or two off.

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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Clay Autery]

Give in to the dark side...  you know it will feel so good to KNOW your
frequency is accurate to sub-sub-sub Hertz level, your time reference is
sub-nanosecond, and every clock in your life are all the same within a
microsecond.

LOL!!!

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On 6/16/2017 5:25 AM, Dave B via Elecraft wrote:
> Lastly, don't get overly concerned about it all, else you'll be signing
> up for the Time Nuts mailing list!  
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Dave B via Elecraft]

Jim.

As you have experience with a Pi, with the addition of a GPS RX, you can
make yourself a very good GPSD NTP server using that.  Then, just hook
that to the PC(s) that need time sync, by LAN or portable WiFi access point.

http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.htmlhas all you need to
know.   Thanks to Dave GM8ARV

73.

Dave G0WBX


On 16/06/17 00:48, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync
> Message-ID: <2f7465e1-5e3a-4733-8201-b016cdb1d...@me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Folks, thanks for the ideas! Tethering to my iPhone would work IF there was 
> cell service. In many parts of Mindanao where we may go, the cell service is 
> either spotty or nonexistent, so I would not want to rely on that. Also, 
> WWV/WWVB/WWVH reception is not guaranteed. When I was there in April, I heard 
> absolutely ZERO signals on CW on any of the ham bands - very strange! But 
> when I moved to the JT-x frequencies, I got signals. So, I?m thinking my best 
> bet would be to go with some sort of GPS/NTP arrangement. To that end, I?ve 
> ordered a copy of the ARRL Arduino book one of you pointed out to me. Worth a 
> shot. I haven?t used one of the Arduino units yet, but my WSJT-X operating 
> here at home in Folsom is 100% powered by a Raspberry Pi 3, so I am familar 
> with using the little micro?s. 
>
> Sounds like a fun indoor construction project for the upcoming ugly-hot 
> summer months in northern CA!
>
> 73, Jim / W6JHB
>
> Jim Bennett
> Folsom, CA

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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Dave B via Elecraft]

Hi.

WSJT-X is not that critical, you only need to be within a second (or two
at most) of UTC, & you can easily get well within +- 1 second with mk 1
finger and a call to the speaking clock, or listening to a broadcast
time signal.  Modern PC's don't drift that significantly over a few
hours (unless they have other problems) so that should be more than good
enough.


NTP sync'ing via mobile internet though possible, is often less than
great if it does work, some carriers block the use of that sort of
thing  But if there is no other choice, needs must.  But, rather than
use one specific time source (time.apple.com)   Try using  
pool.ntp.org   or  north-america.pool.ntp.org   if you are in the US
etc.   (http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/ Has lots of good information.)

That's a collection of independent time servers and the load is shared
between them, so they don’t get saturated like services like Apple (or
Microsoft) often suffer, providing a poor service as a result.   You may
find your mobile carrier has a NTP server you could use, but finding out
about it might be a struggle.

The phone's own time is fairly rigidly controlled, so just watching the
clock on that counting up to a minute, while finger is poised to accept
the next minutes time into the PC is also plenty good enough for the JT
modes.

Other solutions, depending on the accuracy wanted, revolve around the
use of a GPS receiver connected to the computer, and some time syncing
software that can use that.  There are many such programs for MS and
Linux, I don't know about Apple stuff, but Mac's run a highly customised
version of BSD, and there are similar programs for that OS, so...  
(Note, that they are not for the feint of heart to get installed
correctly due to the permissions needed.)

Any of those, you should get within a few ms of UTC easily.  Using a
specialist "timing" GPS receivers, and software that can use the PPS
signal (NTPD for example on 'nix, and Meinberg on Windows) to
continually monitor and correct the computers time, then you can get
within single figure microseconds of UTC (Using a real serial or
parallel port, not USB based.)  But that’s mega overkill for any of the
JT modes, but does have it's uses in propagation research and monitoring.

Lastly, don't get overly concerned about it all, else you'll be signing
up for the Time Nuts mailing list!  
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

73.
Dave G0WBX.


On 16/06/17 00:48, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync
> Message-ID: <9a61e777-f744-4ba2-8007-b43c95c62...@wunderwood.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Can you get internet by tethering to your phone? If so, the computer should 
> sync with NTP pretty quickly, then hold to within a second while you are 
> operating.
>
> You might be able to force a sync by opening the Date & Time control panel in 
> System Preferences. MacOS uses NTP by default. If that doesn?t work, I?d 
> unlock the panel, uncheck ?Set date and time automatically?, then recheck it.
>
> If you are of the shell persuasion, this will do the trick.
>
> sudo ntpdate -u time.apple.com
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj

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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Clay Autery]

Interesting, but don't see a way to feed/sync time with either a
computer or the radio...

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(318) 518-1389

On 6/15/2017 4:22 PM, Peter Pauly wrote:
> I bought this for getting the time from GPS satelites while operating
> remote...it's only about an inch wide and has a time display:
>
> https://www.tindie.com/products/PhoenixCNC/olediuno-gps-cube/
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Clay Autery]

Personally, I think you'd be better served using Raspberry Pi approach. 
See the website I put down in my other post...  Nah, here it is
again...  Do yourself a favor and read this guy's site...

http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/15/2017 3:51 PM, James Bennett wrote:
> So, I’m thinking my best bet would be to go with some sort of GPS/NTP 
> arrangement. To that end, I’ve ordered a copy of the ARRL Arduino book one of 
> you pointed out to me.

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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Clay Autery]

Yep...  Build yourself a tiny little Stratun-1 NTP server using
Raspberry Pi and a GPS receiver...

Ideas:  http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Raspberry-Pi-NTP.html

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/15/2017 2:12 PM, Marvin Wheeler wrote:
> Jim:
>
>  
>
> I would suggest a device that syncs with the gps system. I think it would be
> far more reliable to receive a signal than one from WWV with propagation the
> way it is.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[M. George]

I should have mentioned that there is an obvious way to sync your clock for
JT mode operation... per the spec:

The JT65 protocol states that a transmission will begin at precisely 1
second into a new minute and end 46.811 seconds later.

So if you have no time source and if you can't hear WWV and you have no
internet... just sync up with the other signals you hear.  Get your clock
setting routine ready to roll for 1 second past the current minute and wait
for the beginning of a melee of signals / JT transmit cycle.  It might take
you a few tries, but you will be good to go.  It certainly doesn't need to
be perfect or in the millisecond time frame.  Use your ear and sync your
clock to one second past the current minute.

On another topic... for a couple years now I have hosted and run a Stratum
1 ntp time server (as many others around the globe have, this is nothing
new).  If you want to point to a dedicated stratum 1 NTP server that is GPS
synchronized (and runs in the low nano (yes it's in the low nano range)
second accuracy range), point your NTP configuration / Windows time sync
configuration to: time.nc7j.com  (via NTP over the internet, the best you
will do is usually mid micro second accuracy if you have a fairly low ping
time to the source... I'm in Syracuse Utah with my host IP out of Salt Lake
City for this ntp server)

You can see the status of my NTP server here: http://www.pool.ntp.org/
scores/time.nc7j.com

If you are in the US, you will get a much more accurate consistent sync
from time.nc7j.com than you would from other pooled sources.

Max NG7M

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Matthew George  wrote:

> Tune in to wwv and synchronize your clock.  The jt modes will be fine even
> if you are a second or two off.  Or get a gps and synch to the gps clock
> via nema.  Use google and search on all your options.  You could setup nptd
> on your mac and use a pps signal from a gps too.  Max Ng7m
>
> --
> Matthew George
> 801-560-8754
>
> > On Jun 15, 2017, at 12:46 PM, James Bennett  wrote:
> >
> > I have a MacBook Pro Retina Display running Sierra 10.12.5 that I use
> with my KX3 when operating portable. Part of my operating is done with
> WSJT-X, for JT65 and JT9 modes. This software is very time sync critical -
> the computer clock needs to be within +- one second accuracy. Here at home
> on my wireless network connected to our cable company, works great.
> >
> > However, a recent trip to the southern Philippines as DU8/W6JHB with
> this equipment was an eye-opener. I completely forgot that the laptop clock
> would not keep that sort of accuracy without having Internet access. I saw
> many signals, but WSJT-X decoded nothing at first. Luckily I realized what
> was happening and was able to access and connect to the WiFi network at the
> resort we were staying at. This connection provided the accuracy the
> software needed and all was good.
> >
> > But - when we return on our next "vacation" we may not have the luxury
> of a resort having WiFi for it's guests. So, I'm looking for some sort of
> device that I can use to keep the laptop clock accurate. Internet access
> would be a bonus, but of most importance is that internal clock.
> >
> > Any suggestions? By the way, a mega-buck device is pretty much out of
> the question. Just ask my wife... :-)
> >
> > 73, Jim
> >
> > Jim Bennett / W6JHB
> > Folsom, CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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-- 
M. George
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[M. George]

Jim, it's all a matter of how long the JT software on the receive side /
transmit side is written implemented.  It's simply a window where your
software is listening, there is nothing going on then then when to start
listening and when to stop listening / when to start transmitting and when
to stop transmitting.. The point I was trying to make was that in a pinch,
you should be able to use WWB and manually synch your clock within a
second.  All is not lost if you don't have a NTP implementation with
internet access.  Getting your clock with-in 1 second of WWB is not rocket
science if you can hear the signal, and there are other HF transmitted time
sources than WWB for other parts of the world.  Plus most OS
implementations of NTP will only sync your clock on a weekly basis and
depending on how bad your PC clock is in parts per million PPM, a week of
no synch could have you off by many seconds if not by a minutes.  Google
would be a good place to start if you are looking of manual ways to sync
your clock...  The Elecraft reflector is not the first place I would start,
but it is a way to generate a bunch of email messages and get a bunch of
opinions, there is no question about that. :)

The JT modes are so unbelievably slow and painful, you can multitask and
watch a baseball game at the same time you are working stations every 5
minutes (JT mode  water boarding at 5 minutes per Q in the best scenario).
You could do a SO8R setup and still have time to drink a cup a coffee while
you are keeping track of everytihng. ;)  With all time you have between TX
and RX, someone might want to look (google it up?) at the spec and see what
the published window is suppose to be.  And yes, of course if one station
is 2 seconds fast and another station is 2 seconds slow, you might have a
problem because the software on both ends misses the start or finish where
each station's clock is off in opposite directions.  I'm sure there are
whole JT mode related groups where you can spend hours and hours talking
about how accurate your clock should be.  It's a total yawner mode, but
hey, it's still fun at times.. I'll admit to that.  ;)

Max NG7M


On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Jim Brown 
wrote:

> On Thu,6/15/2017 11:59 AM, Matthew George wrote:
>
>>   The jt modes will be fine even if you are a second or two off.
>>
>
> Two seconds is stretching it. I've seen very strong JT65 signals that
> don't decode with a time error of 1.7 sec!
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
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-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Peter Pauly]

I bought this for getting the time from GPS satelites while operating
remote...it's only about an inch wide and has a time display:

https://www.tindie.com/products/PhoenixCNC/olediuno-gps-cube/

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Josh  wrote:

> I just set this up at K6QXY's place and it worked great. Accuracy is much
> better than what's required for JT65. We got a GlobalSat BR-355-S4 USB GPS
> receiver ($30) and a $20 software package from visualgps.net for Windows.
> I don't know of a MacOS version, but haven't looked.
>
> I expected to have to mount the "puck" receiver outside, but it saw many
> satellites and worked fine just sitting on a table indoors.
>
> 73,
> Josh W6XU
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
> > On Jun 15, 2017, at 1:51 PM, James Bennett  wrote:
> >
> > Folks, thanks for the ideas! Tethering to my iPhone would work IF there
> was cell service. In many parts of Mindanao where we may go, the cell
> service is either spotty or nonexistent, so I would not want to rely on
> that. Also, WWV/WWVB/WWVH reception is not guaranteed. When I was there in
> April, I heard absolutely ZERO signals on CW on any of the ham bands - very
> strange! But when I moved to the JT-x frequencies, I got signals. So, I’m
> thinking my best bet would be to go with some sort of GPS/NTP arrangement.
> To that end, I’ve ordered a copy of the ARRL Arduino book one of you
> pointed out to me. Worth a shot. I haven’t used one of the Arduino units
> yet, but my WSJT-X operating here at home in Folsom is 100% powered by a
> Raspberry Pi 3, so I am familar with using the little micro’s.
> >
> > Sounds like a fun indoor construction project for the upcoming ugly-hot
> summer months in northern CA!
> >
> > 73, Jim / W6JHB
> >
> > Jim Bennett
> > Folsom, CA
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Josh]

I just set this up at K6QXY's place and it worked great. Accuracy is much 
better than what's required for JT65. We got a GlobalSat BR-355-S4 USB GPS 
receiver ($30) and a $20 software package from visualgps.net for Windows. I 
don't know of a MacOS version, but haven't looked. 

I expected to have to mount the "puck" receiver outside, but it saw many 
satellites and worked fine just sitting on a table indoors. 

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Jun 15, 2017, at 1:51 PM, James Bennett  wrote:
> 
> Folks, thanks for the ideas! Tethering to my iPhone would work IF there was 
> cell service. In many parts of Mindanao where we may go, the cell service is 
> either spotty or nonexistent, so I would not want to rely on that. Also, 
> WWV/WWVB/WWVH reception is not guaranteed. When I was there in April, I heard 
> absolutely ZERO signals on CW on any of the ham bands - very strange! But 
> when I moved to the JT-x frequencies, I got signals. So, I’m thinking my best 
> bet would be to go with some sort of GPS/NTP arrangement. To that end, I’ve 
> ordered a copy of the ARRL Arduino book one of you pointed out to me. Worth a 
> shot. I haven’t used one of the Arduino units yet, but my WSJT-X operating 
> here at home in Folsom is 100% powered by a Raspberry Pi 3, so I am familar 
> with using the little micro’s. 
> 
> Sounds like a fun indoor construction project for the upcoming ugly-hot 
> summer months in northern CA!
> 
> 73, Jim / W6JHB
> 
> Jim Bennett
> Folsom, CA
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[James Bennett]

Folks, thanks for the ideas! Tethering to my iPhone would work IF there was 
cell service. In many parts of Mindanao where we may go, the cell service is 
either spotty or nonexistent, so I would not want to rely on that. Also, 
WWV/WWVB/WWVH reception is not guaranteed. When I was there in April, I heard 
absolutely ZERO signals on CW on any of the ham bands - very strange! But when 
I moved to the JT-x frequencies, I got signals. So, I’m thinking my best bet 
would be to go with some sort of GPS/NTP arrangement. To that end, I’ve ordered 
a copy of the ARRL Arduino book one of you pointed out to me. Worth a shot. I 
haven’t used one of the Arduino units yet, but my WSJT-X operating here at home 
in Folsom is 100% powered by a Raspberry Pi 3, so I am familar with using the 
little micro’s. 

Sounds like a fun indoor construction project for the upcoming ugly-hot summer 
months in northern CA!

73, Jim / W6JHB

Jim Bennett
Folsom, CA



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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Rick WA6NHC]

Makes sense.  Originally written for EME, that transit time is about 2.7 
seconds if my math is close... 2*250K miles/(186k/s)... plus some 
processing moments, a few ms for amp relays.  A larger window would be 
problematic.


Rick wa6nhc/7


On 6/15/2017 12:28 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Thu,6/15/2017 11:59 AM, Matthew George wrote:

  The jt modes will be fine even if you are a second or two off.


Two seconds is stretching it. I've seen very strong JT65 signals that 
don't decode with a time error of 1.7 sec!


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Kevin - K4VD]

I have found myself in this situation. WSJT-X shows absolute time
differences between your clock and remote stations. I takes me a little
fiddling but I found I can adjust my computer clock manually to get the
WSJT-X reported time differences down to less than a second. No Internet or
external devices needed.

Not sure about Apple products. In Windows 10 you need to go to additional
date, time, & regional settings to get to where you can adjust the seconds.

I hope there's a helpful clue in this.

73,
Kev K4VD

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Matthew George 
wrote:

> Tune in to wwv and synchronize your clock.  The jt modes will be fine even
> if you are a second or two off.  Or get a gps and synch to the gps clock
> via nema.  Use google and search on all your options.  You could setup nptd
> on your mac and use a pps signal from a gps too.  Max Ng7m
>
> --
> Matthew George
> 801-560-8754
>
> > On Jun 15, 2017, at 12:46 PM, James Bennett  wrote:
> >
> > I have a MacBook Pro Retina Display running Sierra 10.12.5 that I use
> with my KX3 when operating portable. Part of my operating is done with
> WSJT-X, for JT65 and JT9 modes. This software is very time sync critical -
> the computer clock needs to be within +- one second accuracy. Here at home
> on my wireless network connected to our cable company, works great.
> >
> > However, a recent trip to the southern Philippines as DU8/W6JHB with
> this equipment was an eye-opener. I completely forgot that the laptop clock
> would not keep that sort of accuracy without having Internet access. I saw
> many signals, but WSJT-X decoded nothing at first. Luckily I realized what
> was happening and was able to access and connect to the WiFi network at the
> resort we were staying at. This connection provided the accuracy the
> software needed and all was good.
> >
> > But - when we return on our next "vacation" we may not have the luxury
> of a resort having WiFi for it's guests. So, I'm looking for some sort of
> device that I can use to keep the laptop clock accurate. Internet access
> would be a bonus, but of most importance is that internal clock.
> >
> > Any suggestions? By the way, a mega-buck device is pretty much out of
> the question. Just ask my wife... :-)
> >
> > 73, Jim
> >
> > Jim Bennett / W6JHB
> > Folsom, CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,6/15/2017 11:59 AM, Matthew George wrote:

  The jt modes will be fine even if you are a second or two off.


Two seconds is stretching it. I've seen very strong JT65 signals that 
don't decode with a time error of 1.7 sec!


73, Jim K9YC

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[Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Marvin Wheeler]

Jim:

 

I would suggest a device that syncs with the gps system. I think it would be
far more reliable to receive a signal than one from WWV with propagation the
way it is.



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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Matthew George]

Tune in to wwv and synchronize your clock.  The jt modes will be fine even if 
you are a second or two off.  Or get a gps and synch to the gps clock via nema. 
 Use google and search on all your options.  You could setup nptd on your mac 
and use a pps signal from a gps too.  Max Ng7m 

--
Matthew George
801-560-8754

> On Jun 15, 2017, at 12:46 PM, James Bennett  wrote:
> 
> I have a MacBook Pro Retina Display running Sierra 10.12.5 that I use with my 
> KX3 when operating portable. Part of my operating is done with WSJT-X, for 
> JT65 and JT9 modes. This software is very time sync critical - the computer 
> clock needs to be within +- one second accuracy. Here at home on my wireless 
> network connected to our cable company, works great.
> 
> However, a recent trip to the southern Philippines as DU8/W6JHB with this 
> equipment was an eye-opener. I completely forgot that the laptop clock would 
> not keep that sort of accuracy without having Internet access. I saw many 
> signals, but WSJT-X decoded nothing at first. Luckily I realized what was 
> happening and was able to access and connect to the WiFi network at the 
> resort we were staying at. This connection provided the accuracy the software 
> needed and all was good.
> 
> But - when we return on our next "vacation" we may not have the luxury of a 
> resort having WiFi for it's guests. So, I'm looking for some sort of device 
> that I can use to keep the laptop clock accurate. Internet access would be a 
> bonus, but of most importance is that internal clock.
> 
> Any suggestions? By the way, a mega-buck device is pretty much out of the 
> question. Just ask my wife... :-)
> 
> 73, Jim
> 
> Jim Bennett / W6JHB
> Folsom, CA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[Walter Underwood]

Can you get internet by tethering to your phone? If so, the computer should 
sync with NTP pretty quickly, then hold to within a second while you are 
operating.

You might be able to force a sync by opening the Date & Time control panel in 
System Preferences. MacOS uses NTP by default. If that doesn’t work, I’d unlock 
the panel, uncheck “Set date and time automatically”, then recheck it.

If you are of the shell persuasion, this will do the trick.

sudo ntpdate -u time.apple.com

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jun 15, 2017, at 11:46 AM, James Bennett  wrote:
> 
> I have a MacBook Pro Retina Display running Sierra 10.12.5 that I use with my 
> KX3 when operating portable. Part of my operating is done with WSJT-X, for 
> JT65 and JT9 modes. This software is very time sync critical - the computer 
> clock needs to be within +- one second accuracy. Here at home on my wireless 
> network connected to our cable company, works great.
> 
> However, a recent trip to the southern Philippines as DU8/W6JHB with this 
> equipment was an eye-opener. I completely forgot that the laptop clock would 
> not keep that sort of accuracy without having Internet access. I saw many 
> signals, but WSJT-X decoded nothing at first. Luckily I realized what was 
> happening and was able to access and connect to the WiFi network at the 
> resort we were staying at. This connection provided the accuracy the software 
> needed and all was good.
> 
> But - when we return on our next "vacation" we may not have the luxury of a 
> resort having WiFi for it's guests. So, I'm looking for some sort of device 
> that I can use to keep the laptop clock accurate. Internet access would be a 
> bonus, but of most importance is that internal clock.
> 
> Any suggestions? By the way, a mega-buck device is pretty much out of the 
> question. Just ask my wife... :-)
> 
> 73, Jim
> 
> Jim Bennett / W6JHB
> Folsom, CA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] Remote Operating Time Sync

[James Bennett]

I have a MacBook Pro Retina Display running Sierra 10.12.5 that I use with my 
KX3 when operating portable. Part of my operating is done with WSJT-X, for JT65 
and JT9 modes. This software is very time sync critical - the computer clock 
needs to be within +- one second accuracy. Here at home on my wireless network 
connected to our cable company, works great.
 
However, a recent trip to the southern Philippines as DU8/W6JHB with this 
equipment was an eye-opener. I completely forgot that the laptop clock would 
not keep that sort of accuracy without having Internet access. I saw many 
signals, but WSJT-X decoded nothing at first. Luckily I realized what was 
happening and was able to access and connect to the WiFi network at the resort 
we were staying at. This connection provided the accuracy the software needed 
and all was good.
 
But - when we return on our next "vacation" we may not have the luxury of a 
resort having WiFi for it's guests. So, I'm looking for some sort of device 
that I can use to keep the laptop clock accurate. Internet access would be a 
bonus, but of most importance is that internal clock.
 
Any suggestions? By the way, a mega-buck device is pretty much out of the 
question. Just ask my wife... :-)

73, Jim

Jim Bennett / W6JHB
Folsom, CA






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