Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
Vic K2VCO wrote: On 8/12/2012 1:25 PM, stan levandowski wrote: For those Listers who don't know what Ultimatic keying is all about - and are afraid to ask - here is a description by Chuck Olson WB9KZY and some references also: http://wb9kzy.com/ultimat.txt 73, Stan WB2LQF In a few words: when you squeeze the key, Ultimatic doesn't send alternating dots and dashes - it interrupts whichever ones you were already sending, to send the opposite character instead. The Ultimatic logic is last paddle pressed, always wins. The Ultimatic system is more forgiving of small timing errors because it doesn't ever store a trailing character from the opposite paddle. In most implementations, Ultimatic allows plenty of time to release either paddle (if that's what you need to do) before it takes a fresh look at both paddles. Ultimatic is favored by two very different groups of people: 1. People who can read Morse faster than their fingers will send it, so they are *always* sending at their personal upper limit. 2. Extreme High Speed operators, who are sending at *their* upper limit, too... but for very different reasons. You guys got me interested, and I have a keyer that supports it, so I tried it. Couldn't send C's or K's. Both of which are in my call! Well, yeah... Ultimatic has got to feel different from the system you're already used to. (If it wasn't different, it would be the same :-) But the main point is that both the K3 and the KX3 offer an extremely limited set of menu options for the built-in CW keyer - which also is the ONLY way to send RTTY or PSK from the paddles. When the $6 K12 keyer chip offers a wider range of options than the K3 and the KX3 do, something is out of balance in the feature list. It is surely time for those additional options (including bug and Ultimatic) to be made available inside the box. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
Yes please, I've been waiting for this for a few years now! 73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108) -- I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. -Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642) On 11 Aug 2012, at 16:32, emann...@csc.uvic.ca wrote: I third the motion! I have been building external boxes to provide Ultimatic keying mode for about 25 years. It would be VERY nice to have it internal to the K3/KX3... Eric VA7DZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
I too support the request to add Ultimatic to Elecraft rigs. I don't have the fine motor control of my fingers required to make use of iambic features. I treat the dual paddles the same as a single paddle for the most part. However, the dual paddle feels better than a single paddle, probably because pressing one of the paddles gets a result after a movement of one gap space, while a single paddle means the paddle travels two gap spacings within a character. Given my way of using dual paddles, the keyer logic just needs to be as forgiving as possible in handling the inconsistencies in my finger motions. Years ago when I built the external keyer with Ultimatic mode, I tried it and felt that it made my keying more consistent. At this time I have almost zero time for ham radio, and haven't plugged in the external keyer after returning from FD. When I get time, I should test my maximum sending speed with vs without Ultimatic. I do know that just using the K3's keyer, I start making excessive errors if I try to send faster than about 25 wpm. Perhaps Ultimatic will let me go faster. 73, Erik K7TV Yes please, I've been waiting for this for a few years now! 73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108) -- I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. -Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642) On 11 Aug 2012, at 16:32, emann...@csc.uvic.ca wrote: I third the motion! I have been building external boxes to provide Ultimatic keying mode for about 25 years. It would be VERY nice to have it internal to the K3/KX3... Eric VA7DZ __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
Me too! Gary KJ7RT Sent from my iPad On Aug 12, 2012, at 10:55, Erik Basilier ebasil...@cox.net wrote: I too support the request to add Ultimatic to Elecraft rigs. I don't have the fine motor control of my fingers required to make use of iambic features. I treat the dual paddles the same as a single paddle for the most part. However, the dual paddle feels better than a single paddle, probably because pressing one of the paddles gets a result after a movement of one gap space, while a single paddle means the paddle travels two gap spacings within a character. Given my way of using dual paddles, the keyer logic just needs to be as forgiving as possible in handling the inconsistencies in my finger motions. Years ago when I built the external keyer with Ultimatic mode, I tried it and felt that it made my keying more consistent. At this time I have almost zero time for ham radio, and haven't plugged in the external keyer after returning from FD. When I get time, I should test my maximum sending speed with vs without Ultimatic. I do know that just using the K3's keyer, I start making excessive errors if I try to send faster than about 25 wpm. Perhaps Ultimatic will let me go faster. 73, Erik K7TV Yes please, I've been waiting for this for a few years now! 73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108) -- I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. -Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642) On 11 Aug 2012, at 16:32, emann...@csc.uvic.ca wrote: I third the motion! I have been building external boxes to provide Ultimatic keying mode for about 25 years. It would be VERY nice to have it internal to the K3/KX3... Eric VA7DZ __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
For those Listers who don't know what Ultimatic keying is all about - and are afraid to ask - here is a description by Chuck Olson WB9KZY and some references also: http://wb9kzy.com/ultimat.txt 73, Stan WB2LQF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
To elaborate a little bit further: 1. For those of us that lack iambic skills, there are rational reasons for us to use dual paddles, although simple-minded logic would suggest that we stick with single paddles. Not only is the paddle travel excessive when moving a single paddle from dot to dash, but there is also the annoying detent in the middle. 2. Given that the non-iambic operator uses dual paddles, the dual paddles open up ways to screw up that don't exist with a single paddle. Ultimatic is clearly designed to mitigate the risk of such mishaps. That is not to say that Ultimatic is the only possible logic that meets that goal, but it is at least established. 3. How many operators can truly say that they make use of iambic features? Could a poll be conducted? I think to learn iambic, one would have to start using it at very slow speeds to begin with, and unless one did this at the start of one's ham career, who goes back to slow speeds just to learn iambic? Silent majority? 73, Erik K7TV Me too! Gary KJ7RT Sent from my iPad On Aug 12, 2012, at 10:55, Erik Basilier ebasil...@cox.net wrote: I too support the request to add Ultimatic to Elecraft rigs. I don't have the fine motor control of my fingers required to make use of iambic features. I treat the dual paddles the same as a single paddle for the most part. However, the dual paddle feels better than a single paddle, probably because pressing one of the paddles gets a result after a movement of one gap space, while a single paddle means the paddle travels two gap spacings within a character. Given my way of using dual paddles, the keyer logic just needs to be as forgiving as possible in handling the inconsistencies in my finger motions. Years ago when I built the external keyer with Ultimatic mode, I tried it and felt that it made my keying more consistent. At this time I have almost zero time for ham radio, and haven't plugged in the external keyer after returning from FD. When I get time, I should test my maximum sending speed with vs without Ultimatic. I do know that just using the K3's keyer, I start making excessive errors if I try to send faster than about 25 wpm. Perhaps Ultimatic will let me go faster. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
I believe this was done several years ago on this list during a previous Ultimatic thread. Unfortunately, keyer modes are right up with religions for many folks ... I recall the discourse was spirited. I do not recall the ultimate outcome, if there was one, but I do remember the spirit! 73, Fred K6DGW [keyer mode = SIA ... Slap It Around.] - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org On 8/12/2012 1:27 PM, Erik Basilier wrote: 3. How many operators can truly say that they make use of iambic features? Could a poll be conducted? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
To answer your question, after 20 years of using a straight key and bug, I built a discrete-component CMOS iambic keyer in the 1970's. I did start out slow but speed came quickly, IIRC, as my fingers learned the correct pattern of movements for each character. But I had to do the same thing when I learned to use a bug in the 1950's. Knowing Morse doesn't mean one's body knows how to operate a particular key to generate it. That takes practice. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the iambic keyer built into the K2 and K3 was as comfortable to use as my old homebrew keyer. Unfortunately, I found that I could -not- use a bug and the iambic keyer (in iambic mode) interchangeably. My muscle memory was too strong and I found myself squeezing the bug paddle. Also my timing on the bug was lousy since the keyer did all the timing and spacing for me. So, after about 25 years on the iambic keyer, my bug won out after another re-training period -- at least as long as I enjoy sending CW with it. However, I have gone back to the iambic keyer from time to time to load CW memories, etc., and iambic fingering comes back in a few seconds. But I enjoy learning physical skills like that. It's part of the fun of Ham radio for me. Otherwise I'd not have bothered switching to an iambic keyer and then back to the bug. I don't think I'm part of a silent majority. Most likely I'm part of a substantial minority - either on an iambic keyer or on a bug. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- 3. How many operators can truly say that they make use of iambic features? Could a poll be conducted? I think to learn iambic, one would have to start using it at very slow speeds to begin with, and unless one did this at the start of one's ham career, who goes back to slow speeds just to learn iambic? Silent majority? 73, Erik K7TV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
Hi Brian, Yes, if you use a single paddle, the logic in the keyer doesn't affect you, but I wouldn't call that using iambic. Given that there are so many dual paddles on the market, and so few singles, I have to believe that most hams that use an electronic keyer are currently using dual paddles with iambic keyer logic. My theory is that this can be shown to have a small but statistically negative effect on the average quality of sending, and thus on operator satisfaction, and on the popularity of cw ragchewing. The cause of ham radio would therefore be advanced if the elite iambic features were not compulsory. Unless of course most of those operators have learnt squeeze keying, and you and I are in the minority. I think to be meaningful, a poll should probably not be conducted by messages here, but on some website that has a polling feature. Congrat's on your doing 45 wpm with a single paddle. Maybe I am just too lazy, and spending-averse, and too squeemish about the larger paddle movement, to get a single paddle and be able to go faster that way. 73, Erik K7TV Hi Eric, I use iambic --- sort of. I came through the ranks of bug and single lever keyers where you had to supply your own timing. Hence transitioning to iambic on a single level paddle was easy. Just keep doing what one always did. No real benefit of a dual paddle. Once I get much above 45 wpm, it's time to use the keyboard. Same thing with a CW keyboard. Typing was taught in high school by rhythm and thus typing the next character at the right time was easy. With one key rollover, one can just about forget the need for a buffer. I really pity the person who is trying to learn to use a dual lever paddle from scratch with any type of keying logic. My perception is that squeezing timing is much more unnatural and difficult to achieve than back and forth slapping. Of course, the rest of the CW world has mastered it, so it's obviously not impossible. I think your survey needs to include how many really CW ragchew. That number has got to be small. All of this stuff becomes unnecessary if one just engages in 599 73 QSO's. 73 de Brian/K3KO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
You guys got me interested, and I have a keyer that supports it, so I tried it. Couldn't send C's or K's. Both of which are in my call! On 8/12/2012 1:25 PM, stan levandowski wrote: For those Listers who don't know what Ultimatic keying is all about - and are afraid to ask - here is a description by Chuck Olson WB9KZY and some references also: http://wb9kzy.com/ultimat.txt 73, Stan WB2LQF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
On 08/12/2012 03:27 PM, Erik Basilier wrote: 3. How many operators can truly say that they make use of iambic features? I do too. I went from straight key to Iambic back in the 70s, or so. I used a HB copy of the Heathkit HD-1410 Iambic keyer and a HB Iambic Key. I decided that I would not chase the various rig internal keyers and standardize on a keyer and key. Mine are Idiom Press K3 and CMOS-4 (VØ Logikey K1, K3 timing w/dot and dash memory) and Vibroplex Iambic key. My suggestion is to find what you like in an external keyer and use it for home use. And make compromises when going portable or ultra portable. I do use the internal K2 keyer (B), sometimes, when going portable. It may be much to ask a rig manufacture to implement the feel of every keyer and key permutation implemented through the years. I bring my key and keyer to Field Day. If it was more then once a year, I would make a key/keyer go-box! John KN5L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
Ron, thanks for your comments, and I recognize that there must be a sizable minority of operators that are fully competent with iambic. And, when iambic is mastered it can probably produce faster code than either a single paddle or a double paddle used by a non-iambic operator. What I don't believe is that if you put a dual paddle with iambic logic in the hands of an established operator, he will gradually slip into making use of the iambic features. Yet, that seems to be the assumption of manufacturers. I can think of 3 dual paddles available from Elecraft, but no single paddle option. Two of the Elecraft paddles are for portable rigs. My experience with portable operation is that the sitting position is usually uncomfortable, the hands may be cold and shaking (due to cold or exertion), and motor skills are way below the level at the shack. In such a situation, my mistakes with a dual paddle go way up, and either Ultimatic or a single paddle would help a lot. Before my KX1 I used a single lever made from flexing PC board with my portable radios. It didn't go fast, but was very reliable after I soldered little pieces of sterling silver to the contact points. Somehow I am guessing that the tendency of manufacturers toward dual paddles and complicated keying logic has something to do with the desire to appear to deliver the most for the money. Beginners may be swayed by that. Some manufacturers seem to really promote more is more as in pounds of radio and number of knobs. Others, particularly when selling qrp rigs may promote less is more. For the thinking ham, neither slogan makes sense. Elecraft provides lots features where more certainly is more, but saves us from backbreaking radio weights and impractical numbers of controls. When it comes to keying, the more is more seems to have won out without real justification. BTW many years ago like you I built a keyer from discrete CMOS (published in 73 mag). I don't remember what the keying logic was, but since dual paddles were used, I am guessing that the whole project was motivated by the new iambic ideas. I never learnt to use it at all (let alone the iambic features) until I reversed the paddles to get the dits on the thumb. I can relate to the pleasure of learning a physical skill like that (used to play classical guitar), but feel that the movements with iambic are just too small and delicate. Maybe I just need to set bigger spacing an use more forceful movements to feel what is going on, but I seem to have a preference for very small contact spacings. Interesting to hear about your need for time to adjust between different sets of muscle memories. I experience something similar in copying morse. I can copy quite fast, but it takes a few moments to load the decoder into my brain. One time I was filling up at a gas station and another customer saw my mobile antenna and asked what I was doing. When I said I was a ham, he started voicing di-dah's at me and I couldn't copy at all. In addition to the general boot-up time, I just wasn't programmed for that. 73, Erik K7TV To answer your question, after 20 years of using a straight key and bug, I built a discrete-component CMOS iambic keyer in the 1970's. I did start out slow but speed came quickly, IIRC, as my fingers learned the correct pattern of movements for each character. But I had to do the same thing when I learned to use a bug in the 1950's. Knowing Morse doesn't mean one's body knows how to operate a particular key to generate it. That takes practice. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the iambic keyer built into the K2 and K3 was as comfortable to use as my old homebrew keyer. Unfortunately, I found that I could -not- use a bug and the iambic keyer (in iambic mode) interchangeably. My muscle memory was too strong and I found myself squeezing the bug paddle. Also my timing on the bug was lousy since the keyer did all the timing and spacing for me. So, after about 25 years on the iambic keyer, my bug won out after another re-training period -- at least as long as I enjoy sending CW with it. However, I have gone back to the iambic keyer from time to time to load CW memories, etc., and iambic fingering comes back in a few seconds. But I enjoy learning physical skills like that. It's part of the fun of Ham radio for me. Otherwise I'd not have bothered switching to an iambic keyer and then back to the bug. I don't think I'm part of a silent majority. Most likely I'm part of a substantial minority - either on an iambic keyer or on a bug. 73, Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
I learned to type that way in High School too but what really taught me to keep a steady pace was pounding away on an old Model 15 RTTY keyboard in the Army. As each key was pressed the keyboard locked while the mechanical encoder cycled before another key could be pressed. Fortunately it was pretty noisy so one learned to hear the mechanism cycle and knew just when the next key could be pressed. Tapping one foot worked well too :-) 99.99% of my operating is CW rag chewing. We may be a diminishing breed, but there are still plenty of us out there to provide some really nice hours on the bands. That got me nostalgic for the old Model 15 rattle so I looked and, sure 'nough, someone has one running on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWa6u5_Itvs The trick is to keep that rhythm for maximum inputting speed on the keyboard. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Same thing with a CW keyboard. Typing was taught in high school by rhythm and thus typing the next character at the right time was easy. With one key rollover, one can just about forget the need for a buffer. I really pity the person who is trying to learn to use a dual lever paddle from scratch with any type of keying logic. My perception is that squeezing timing is much more unnatural and difficult to achieve than back and forth slapping. Of course, the rest of the CW world has mastered it, so it's obviously not impossible. I think your survey needs to include how many really CW ragchew. That number has got to be small. All of this stuff becomes unnecessary if one just engages in 599 73 QSO's. 73 de Brian/K3KO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
My former TS-870 had a built-in Logikey and I could actually send with it. The same can't be said for the K3 internal keyer. I can barely program the memories without a few tries. As to holding a QSO forget it. I've been sending the numeral 7 in my call since 1958 and it still comes out M S with the K3. :-) --- On Sun, 8/12/12, John Oppenheimer j...@kn5l.net wrote: Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 3:34 PM On 08/12/2012 03:27 PM, Erik Basilier wrote: 3. How many operators can truly say that they make use of iambic features? I do too. I went from straight key to Iambic back in the 70s, or so. I used a HB copy of the Heathkit HD-1410 Iambic keyer and a HB Iambic Key. I decided that I would not chase the various rig internal keyers and standardize on a keyer and key. Mine are Idiom Press K3 and CMOS-4 (VØ Logikey K1, K3 timing w/dot and dash memory) and Vibroplex Iambic key. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
Ron, In 1971 in Germany in the Army Signal Corps, we convinced our COL to upgrade us to a 90 WPM RTTY machine so we wouldn't get stalled by the sluggish nature of the 60WPM. To this day, I wonder how I typed that fast as I sure suck today! Noisy is was!!! 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 5:02 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying I learned to type that way in High School too but what really taught me to keep a steady pace was pounding away on an old Model 15 RTTY keyboard in the Army. As each key was pressed the keyboard locked while the mechanical encoder cycled before another key could be pressed. Fortunately it was pretty noisy so one learned to hear the mechanism cycle and knew just when the next key could be pressed. Tapping one foot worked well too :-) 99.99% of my operating is CW rag chewing. We may be a diminishing breed, but there are still plenty of us out there to provide some really nice hours on the bands. That got me nostalgic for the old Model 15 rattle so I looked and, sure 'nough, someone has one running on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWa6u5_Itvs The trick is to keep that rhythm for maximum inputting speed on the keyboard. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Same thing with a CW keyboard. Typing was taught in high school by rhythm and thus typing the next character at the right time was easy. With one key rollover, one can just about forget the need for a buffer. I really pity the person who is trying to learn to use a dual lever paddle from scratch with any type of keying logic. My perception is that squeezing timing is much more unnatural and difficult to achieve than back and forth slapping. Of course, the rest of the CW world has mastered it, so it's obviously not impossible. I think your survey needs to include how many really CW ragchew. That number has got to be small. All of this stuff becomes unnecessary if one just engages in 599 73 QSO's. 73 de Brian/K3KO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
On 8/12/2012 3:44 PM, Bill K9YEQ wrote: In 1971 in Germany in the Army Signal Corps, we convinced our COL to upgrade us to a 90 WPM RTTY machine so we wouldn't get stalled by the sluggish nature of the 60WPM. To this day, I wonder how I typed that fast as I sure suck today! Noisy is was!!! Copying CW direct to TTY tape was hugely easy for that reason. As long as he wasn't sending at 60 WPM [like I have ever been able to make record copy at that speed :-)], you just pressed the keys, with a lot of travel, and it went from ears to fingers with no intermediate stops. It was much the same on the Underwood open-frame mills -- long key travel, you really knew you were pressing the key, and it became something of a finger dance. Today's computer keyboards are much harder for me for record copy, I don't really get the physical sense of pressing the keys, and I tend to wear them out ... pounding far more than I need to. My laptop is the worst. Regarding Ultimatic, I've tried it, never practiced, basically didn't like it all that much. My K3 and Winkey USB are both iambic, too old, don't use it. But, to each his own. The K3 keyer is all firmware, ultimatic could probably be added as an option if enough address space is available. Time is probably the big issue for Wayne/Eric and Company, no one could wait quietly for the K3, then KPA500, KX3, and now KAT500, I'll bet their engineering agendas are very full. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
On an even more obscure note, in the summer of 1965 or 1966 (can't remember which) as a recently-minted Conditional class licensee I was spending a lot of time on 40 meter CW during the day. High school was out for the summer and I was busy building electronic keyers and learning to use them. I ran across a W4, down in Alabama I think, who was a regular 40 QRQ guy. He had developed what he called the Squeeze Keyer. It used a bunch of 12AU7s and had a similar philosophy to the Ultimatic. His version used what he called single dot injection and closing the dot paddle while the dash paddle was held closed would inject a single dot in the stream of dashes. Other than for this condition, the dash paddle always had priority over the dot paddle. Using this technique, any letter in the alphabet except X could be generated with a single properly timed squeeze of the paddles. He wouldn't publish the design, so when he went SK it presumably died with him. Sometime in the early '70s I designed and built a keyer that did the same thing using 74xx TTL chips. It worked great, but I was about the only one who could send on it. Does anybody else remember the Squeeze Keyer? 73... Randy, W8FN On 08/12/2012 17:00, Erik Basilier wrote: Ron, thanks for your comments, and I recognize that there must be a sizable minority of operators that are fully competent with iambic. And, when iambic is mastered it can probably produce faster code than either a single paddle or a double paddle used by a non-iambic operator. What I don't believe is that if you put a dual paddle with iambic logic in the hands of an established operator, he will gradually slip into making use of the iambic features. Yet, that seems to be the assumption of manufacturers. I can think of 3 dual paddles available from Elecraft, but no single paddle option. Two of the Elecraft paddles are for portable rigs. My experience with portable operation is that the sitting position is usually uncomfortable, the hands may be cold and shaking (due to cold or exertion), and motor skills are way below the level at the shack. In such a situation, my mistakes with a dual paddle go way up, and either Ultimatic or a single paddle would help a lot. Before my KX1 I used a single lever made from flexing PC board with my portable radios. It didn't go fast, but was very reliable after I soldered little pieces of sterling silver to the contact points. Somehow I am guessing that the tendency of manufacturers toward dual paddles and complicated keying logic has something to do with the desire to appear to deliver the most for the money. Beginners may be swayed by that. Some manufacturers seem to really promote more is more as in pounds of radio and number of knobs. Others, particularly when selling qrp rigs may promote less is more. For the thinking ham, neither slogan makes sense. Elecraft provides lots features where more certainly is more, but saves us from backbreaking radio weights and impractical numbers of controls. When it comes to keying, the more is more seems to have won out without real justification. BTW many years ago like you I built a keyer from discrete CMOS (published in 73 mag). I don't remember what the keying logic was, but since dual paddles were used, I am guessing that the whole project was motivated by the new iambic ideas. I never learnt to use it at all (let alone the iambic features) until I reversed the paddles to get the dits on the thumb. I can relate to the pleasure of learning a physical skill like that (used to play classical guitar), but feel that the movements with iambic are just too small and delicate. Maybe I just need to set bigger spacing an use more forceful movements to feel what is going on, but I seem to have a preference for very small contact spacings. Interesting to hear about your need for time to adjust between different sets of muscle memories. I experience something similar in copying morse. I can copy quite fast, but it takes a few moments to load the decoder into my brain. One time I was filling up at a gas station and another customer saw my mobile antenna and asked what I was doing. When I said I was a ham, he started voicing di-dah's at me and I couldn't copy at all. In addition to the general boot-up time, I just wasn't programmed for that. 73, Erik K7TV To answer your question, after 20 years of using a straight key and bug, I built a discrete-component CMOS iambic keyer in the 1970's. I did start out slow but speed came quickly, IIRC, as my fingers learned the correct pattern of movements for each character. But I had to do the same thing when I learned to use a bug in the 1950's. Knowing Morse doesn't mean one's body knows how to operate a particular key to generate it. That takes practice. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the iambic keyer built into the K2 and K3 was as comfortable to use as my
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
On Aug 12, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Randy Farmer w...@tx.rr.com wrote: Does anybody else remember the Squeeze Keyer? Yep! Basically, a POO Keyer with single dot insertion. Bud, W2RU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
Hi Randy, Sounds suspiciously like the 9TO Mark II which appeared in the June 1967 issue of QST, was called Dot Insertion It was my 1st keyer and I still have it!! You can get the article on line at the ARRL if you want to check it out. I think it is an Ultimatic type but relieves some of the timing issue with slapping in dots. Also helped keep the shack warm in the winter, had 4 or 5 12AU7s and 2 regulator tubes (hollow state zeners). 73, Bob K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) K2TKR On 8/12/2012 9:25 PM, Randy Farmer wrote: On an even more obscure note, in the summer of 1965 or 1966 (can't remember which) as a recently-minted Conditional class licensee I was spending a lot of time on 40 meter CW during the day. High school was out for the summer and I was busy building electronic keyers and learning to use them. I ran across a W4, down in Alabama I think, who was a regular 40 QRQ guy. He had developed what he called the Squeeze Keyer. It used a bunch of 12AU7s and had a similar philosophy to the Ultimatic. His version used what he called single dot injection and closing the dot paddle while the dash paddle was held closed would inject a single dot in the stream of dashes. Other than for this condition, the dash paddle always had priority over the dot paddle. Using this technique, any letter in the alphabet except X could be generated with a single properly timed squeeze of the paddles. He wouldn't publish the design, so when he went SK it presumably died with him. Sometime in the early '70s I designed and built a keyer that did the same thing using 74xx TTL chips. It worked great, but I was about the only one who could send on it. Does anybody else remember the Squeeze Keyer? 73... Randy, W8FN On 08/12/2012 17:00, Erik Basilier wrote: Ron, thanks for your comments, and I recognize that there must be a sizable minority of operators that are fully competent with iambic. And, when iambic is mastered it can probably produce faster code than either a single paddle or a double paddle used by a non-iambic operator. What I don't believe is that if you put a dual paddle with iambic logic in the hands of an established operator, he will gradually slip into making use of the iambic features. Yet, that seems to be the assumption of manufacturers. I can think of 3 dual paddles available from Elecraft, but no single paddle option. Two of the Elecraft paddles are for portable rigs. My experience with portable operation is that the sitting position is usually uncomfortable, the hands may be cold and shaking (due to cold or exertion), and motor skills are way below the level at the shack. In such a situation, my mistakes with a dual paddle go way up, and either Ultimatic or a single paddle would help a lot. Before my KX1 I used a single lever made from flexing PC board with my portable radios. It didn't go fast, but was very reliable after I soldered little pieces of sterling silver to the contact points. Somehow I am guessing that the tendency of manufacturers toward dual paddles and complicated keying logic has something to do with the desire to appear to deliver the most for the money. Beginners may be swayed by that. Some manufacturers seem to really promote more is more as in pounds of radio and number of knobs. Others, particularly when selling qrp rigs may promote less is more. For the thinking ham, neither slogan makes sense. Elecraft provides lots features where more certainly is more, but saves us from backbreaking radio weights and impractical numbers of controls. When it comes to keying, the more is more seems to have won out without real justification. BTW many years ago like you I built a keyer from discrete CMOS (published in 73 mag). I don't remember what the keying logic was, but since dual paddles were used, I am guessing that the whole project was motivated by the new iambic ideas. I never learnt to use it at all (let alone the iambic features) until I reversed the paddles to get the dits on the thumb. I can relate to the pleasure of learning a physical skill like that (used to play classical guitar), but feel that the movements with iambic are just too small and delicate. Maybe I just need to set bigger spacing an use more forceful movements to feel what is going on, but I seem to have a preference for very small contact spacings. Interesting to hear about your need for time to adjust between different sets of muscle memories. I experience something similar in copying morse. I can copy quite fast, but it takes a few moments to load the decoder into my brain. One time I was filling up at a gas station and another customer saw my mobile antenna and asked what I was doing. When I said I was a ham, he started voicing di-dah's at me and I couldn't copy at all. In addition to the general boot-up time, I just wasn't programmed for that. 73, Erik K7TV
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
In the interest of keeping list volume under control (and improving SNR) let's end this thread at this time. For those interested, there is a lot of prior discussion of this topic in the searchable list archives at: http://www.elecraft.com/elist.html 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator _..._ On 8/12/2012 7:14 PM, Bob wrote: Hi Randy, Sounds suspiciously like the 9TO Mark II which appeared in the June 1967 issue of QST, was called Dot Insertion It was my 1st keyer and I still have it! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Ultimatic keying
I third the motion! I have been building external boxes to provide Ultimatic keying mode for about 25 years. It would be VERY nice to have it internal to the K3/KX3... Eric VA7DZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying in KX1/K1?
Thanks to all who offered comments I went with an N0XAS PicoKeyer (hamgadgets.com) - this is pretty much the same keyer as the RockMite upgrade chip, in a small stand-alone board.Easy build, works great and has Ultimatic mode.Still, someday in some future rom upgrade it would be nice to have Ultimatic keying on board in the K* rigs.73,Mike ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying in KX1/K1?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still, someday in some future rom upgrade it would be nice to have Ultimatic keying on board in the K* rigs. If anyone would like to refresh my memory on Ultimatic keyers, I'd be happy to read it. I remember a QST article at least 200 years ago about it, I think it might have been on the cover too. I know about Iambic, I have an Iambic-A keying type [and O+ blood type]. Iambic-B is hard for me, however I don't really know the technical difference between them, I just know that B adds dits I didn't send. Given the amount of traffic on the Elecraft list these days, it would be good [and kind to everyone else who undoubtedly all know the answer] to reply to me direct :-) 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying in KX1/K1?
Fred Jensen wrote: If anyone would like to refresh my memory on Ultimatic keyers, I'd be happy to read it. http://www.ac6rm.net/mailarchive/html/elecraft-list/2005-02/msg00563.html -- GB 73's KA5OAI Sam Morgan ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying in KX1/K1?
Mike, It's my understanding that the MODE is a function of the chip being used. At this time I know of three Ultimatic units. The cube keyer that goes with that mini Palm paddle key (the newer cube), the offerings from Jackson Harbor - I think the PK4 chip (that's used the new Palm), and there's a keyer for about $17 that is constantly for sale on that Auction site (I think it comes up when searching on QRP) Unfortunately, I don't believe the older PK3 chip is plug to plug compatible. That is, you can't take a keyer based on the PK3 Chip and plug in the PK4. I think the circuit board for the basic keyer (not a lot of memories) is pretty small. So you might be able to stick in inside the rig and just wire it to the key jack - or you can install it as a small box at the key end - sort of in-line with your key. I became aware of ultramatic - an old Ten Tec mode - in discussion in the FISTS newsgroup. Like you (and me) many did not like the iambic keyer action but wanted to use a dual paddle. There was a great cheer in the newsgroup when a member reminded them of Ultramatic mode. It was just what they wanted. Good luck and 73, Paul ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic keying in KX1/K1?
The K1EL keyers also support Ultimatic mode. They are small inexpensive PC boards. I use the K12 to provide Ultimatic mode, much easier for me. I too would like to see the KX1 and K1 rigs provide Ultimatic keying. The K2 is not a problem for me - the external keyer works fine, but it would be nice to have Ultimatic 'inside' the K2 and K3 too. 73, Don W3FPR Paul wrote: Mike, It's my understanding that the MODE is a function of the chip being used. At this time I know of three Ultimatic units. The cube keyer that goes with that mini Palm paddle key (the newer cube), the offerings from Jackson Harbor - I think the PK4 chip (that's used the new Palm), and there's a keyer for about $17 that is constantly for sale on that Auction site (I think it comes up when searching on QRP) Unfortunately, I don't believe the older PK3 chip is plug to plug compatible. That is, you can't take a keyer based on the PK3 Chip and plug in the PK4. I think the circuit board for the basic keyer (not a lot of memories) is pretty small. So you might be able to stick in inside the rig and just wire it to the key jack - or you can install it as a small box at the key end - sort of in-line with your key. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Ultimatic keying in KX1/K1?
I hope I'm not reviving an old discussion here, but I searched the reflector archives and didn't find too much on the subject I have discovered that Ultimatic style keying is a lot easier for me and I send a lot better using it rather than iambic A/B. Is there any room in the KX1 or K1 roms for adding this mode in some future release? (Not asking about K2 'cause I don't own one... yet. K3 seems like more radio than I need, but awesome nevertheless.) Thanks, Mike N2HTT ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
In addition to having an Ultimatic keying option, the N0XAS PicoKeyer (www.hamgadgets.com) also has a bug emulator mode. 73, Dan KB6NU - Original Message - From: Ron D'Eau Claire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Elecraft Discussion List' elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying. Rick wrote: I would like to see a squeeze option that would give a steady tone when the paddle contacts are both closed. This would restore keying control to the operator. --- Now we're almost back to something I asked for several years ago; A bug emulator mode in which the dit side makes dits and the dah side simply keys the tx like any self-respecting bug. Push the dah paddle and you get a dah until you let go! I know, it can be done with diodes on the K2. Tie two diodes to the key inputs that connect to the dash contacts. I do it even more accurately with the K2. I plug my bug into it! But the KX1 is just a little clumsy with a key bigger than it is hooked on - and not nearly as portable. So it'd be nice for those of us who like bugs if the KX1's paddles could behave like one. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Ultimatic keying ...
A very long time ago I suggested to Elecraft that an Ultimatic option would be nice, and anyway the iambic mode is a dogs' breakfast to actually use. Iambic keying only exists because of designer laziness; it was the easy way out with flip flop circuitry. The last discrete device Ultimatic-style keyer published in QST was the Versakeyer, and that was back in May 1979. It has an iambic option (never used it) and an auto-space option (OK, but really makes you work on your timing.) The original 1950s Ultimatic keyer used a heap of relays (ugh) although the 11 tube version used only one. I still have my tube Ultimatic; component ageing has stopped it working but one day I'll fix it .. So I use my 1979 Versakeyer most of the time. It will key anything up to plus or minus 300v and is RF proof. But being lazy I never got round to adding the external keyer diodes to my K2, so I just swap between paddles and re-programme brain when going from Omni-V to K2 and back again. But having been obliged by my own laziness to use both modes, often in rapid succession, I have not the slightest doubt that the Ultimatic mode wins fist down on ease of use and convenience. Now if only I could motivate myself to shoe horn a K1EL (12 series) chip into my K2 . Yes, the magic HEXKEY is only hooked to the Versakeyer and not to the K2 ... shame on me, I know ! John G3JAG (try sending that in iambic mode) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
What features does Ultimatic Keying have? And what keyers offer it? 73, Tom N0SS = This from an OHR ad: Ultimatic is a pre-iambic keying mode in which the result of a squeeze is that the keyer will switch to the last lever pressed rather than alternating dits and dahs. Bill K3UJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
The difference between iambic and Ultimatic keying is that when you hold down both paddles, the Ultimatic keyer sends a series of elements corresponding to the last paddle closed instead of sending alternate dits and dashes as an iambic keyer would. For example, the sequence L on, R on would cause an iambic keyer to send di-dah-di-dah. An Ultimatic keyer would, however, send di-dah-dah-dah. If you count the number of paddle movements, you can see where this might be advantageous. There's no advantage when sending a K. The sequence is R on, L on, L off, R off for both iambic and Ultimatic keyers. Take X, however. When using iambic keying, it's R on, R off, L on, L off, R on, R off. With Ultimatic keying, the number of paddle movements is the same as for the iambic - R on, L on, L off, R off. - a savings of two paddle movements. You just hold down the left paddle a little longer for the X then for the K. Another keyer that now supports Ultimatic keying is the N0XAS PicoKeyer (www.hamgadgets.com). It's only $18, and fits in a mini Altoids tin. I have no affiliation with the company; I just think it's a cool little keyer. 73! Dan KB6NU --- President, ARROW Comm. Assn. (www.w8pgw.org) ARRL MI Section Affiliated Club Coordinator CW Geek (FISTS #9342) Read my ham radio blog at www.blurty.com/~kb6nu - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying. What features does Ultimatic Keying have? And what keyers offer it? 73, Tom N0SS = This from an OHR ad: Ultimatic is a pre-iambic keying mode in which the result of a squeeze is that the keyer will switch to the last lever pressed rather than alternating dits and dahs. Bill K3UJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
Another solution for getting Ultimatic keying inside a K2 would be the PK4 keyer from Jackson Harbor Press. It's very small, only 1 x 1.5. Jackson Harbor's contest keyer, the Island Keyer II, also supports Ultimatic. Both of these keyers are available directly from Jackson Harbor Press at: http://home.att.net/~jacksonharbor/ham.htm or from Morse Express at: http://www.mtechnologies.com/jhp/ Jackson Harbor also has an explanation of Ultimatic keying at: http://home.att.net/~jacksonharbor/ultimat.txt I haven't tried either one of these keyers, but I do have the older PK3 (inside my Palm Radio Code Cube) and like it. Unfortunately, it doesn't do Ultimatic. 73, John Pfeifer - KL0WN ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
That's exactly the way I use my keyer..never really got the hang of iambic! (old dogs and new tricks??) I find it to work perfectly well! Doug W6JD - Original Message - From: Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ron D'Eau Claire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Elecraft Discussion List elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying. Ron, AC7AC wrote: (Probably. After 20 years on an Iambic keyer I went back to a Bug because it's more work and more satisfying. So don't ever expect me to be logical, Mr. Spock!) .. Confession time, have yet to master fully this new fangled Iambic Keying thing, so use the twin paddles like a single paddle bug. But the CW is 'mechanical' not like bug produced CW, and a 'friendly' dit daaah dit cannot be sent! 73, Geoff GM4ESD ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
I would like to see a squeeze option that would give a steady tone when the paddle contacts are both closed. This would restore keying control to the operator. I normally use a bug or straight key but use paddles with the KX1 when portable. The bug is more than 5 times as heavy as the rig and does not travel well.73 - Rick - K7MW - Original Message - From: Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying. .. Confession time, have yet to master fully this new fangled Iambic Keying thing, so use the twin paddles like a single paddle bug. But the CW is 'mechanical' not like bug produced CW, and a 'friendly' dit daaah dit cannot be sent! 73, Geoff GM4ESD ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
On Fri, 2005-18-02 at 17:17 -0500, W3FPR - Don Wilhelm wrote: The keying is all done inside the microprocessor chip, so your best solution would be to opt for an external keyer. ... or a single lever paddle! -- 73, Brian VE7NGR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
Fernando: Care to enlighten us with a bit of description of Ultimatic Keying...? I don't use the K2's keyer AS an iambic keyer, even though the feature's available. What features does Ultimatic Keying have? And what keyers offer it? 73, Tom N0SS At 03:45 PM 2/18/05, you wrote: Hello. Is there a way to get the K2 to have Ultimatic Keying ? I presume it has to do with the base firmware. I never developed the fine art of iambic (neither A or B) keying, so I more or less slap the paddle left and right when I'm sending. The HexKey stays put, by the way. From what I've read in another list it might be right for me. Any quick mod that can be done or is anyone looking into it? I have looked at the schematic and found the keyer stuff in the Control Board at J7, stopped their since that's my technical extend. tnx. -- 73 Fernando N2FQ/NNNØJYM San Jose, CA http://pages.sbcglobal.net/n2fq ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
Tom: It's my understanding (though I've never used it) that it responds to a squeeze by repeating the last side closed. Thus, holding the dot side produces a string of dots, dash side dashes. Squeeze dot/dash give a dot followed by a string of dashes, while dash/dot produces a dash followed by a string of dots. There is no iambic element. best wishes, dave belsley, w1euy On Feb 18, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Tom Hammond wrote: Fernando: Care to enlighten us with a bit of description of Ultimatic Keying...? I don't use the K2's keyer AS an iambic keyer, even though the feature's available. What features does Ultimatic Keying have? And what keyers offer it? 73, Tom N0SS At 03:45 PM 2/18/05, you wrote: Hello. Is there a way to get the K2 to have Ultimatic Keying ? I presume it has to do with the base firmware. I never developed the fine art of iambic (neither A or B) keying, so I more or less slap the paddle left and right when I'm sending. The HexKey stays put, by the way. From what I've read in another list it might be right for me. Any quick mod that can be done or is anyone looking into it? I have looked at the schematic and found the keyer stuff in the Control Board at J7, stopped their since that's my technical extend. tnx. -- 73 Fernando N2FQ/NNNØJYM San Jose, CA http://pages.sbcglobal.net/n2fq ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
dave belsley, w1euy It's my understanding (though I've never used it) that it responds to a squeeze by repeating the last side closed. Thus, holding the dot side produces a string of dots, dash side dashes. Squeeze dot/dash give a dot followed by a string of dashes, while dash/dot produces a dash followed by a string of dots. There is no iambic element. --- Interesting! I caught Tom's query and was very interested in the answer myself. I can't see the advantage to normal non-iambic keying though... When I send a C using an iambic keyer, I just squeeze, being sure to hit the dah side first. Two finger movements for one complete 'C' (plus letting go!) But it'd take four if the dashes repeated, the same as if I was using it in non-iambic mode. A Q on the iambic keyer takes two finger movements too. Hit the dah and during the second dash, tap the dit and I get a Q with the dit inserted after the second dah with logic-perfect precision. It sounds like the Ultimatic would require as many finger movements as a standard keyer. Am I missing something? (Probably. After 20 years on an Iambic keyer I went back to a Bug because it's more work and more satisfying. So don't ever expect me to be logical, Mr. Spock!) Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
Thanks to all who responded here and by private email. I have found an external keyer with my needs by K1EL. Just wanted to ask before I get another do dat on the cluttered desktop. I figure that with the resources on this list that perhaps someone might have made a mod or such. Please delete any references I made to iambic A or B. I should have been more specific about my inquiry. . thanks to all. -- 73 Fernando N2FQ/NNNØJYM San Jose, CA http://pages.sbcglobal.net/n2fq ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Ultimatic Keying.
There was a discussion about this just recently in the BrassPounders news group on Yahoo. The attractiveness of Ultimatic is not its effeciency - it is attractive to a number of cw operators because of its ineffeciency! That is, its forgiving coordination requirements. I bought a very nice iambic paddle - but just couldn't control it - all those unintentioned dits or dahs. So I got a single level paddle (vibrokeyer, Kent SP-1, etc.) and that worked okay. But moving an object left/right has a little more fatigue factor than just a squeeze. Someone brought up Ultimatic mode and mentioned the Jackson Harbor Keyer II - which provides Ultimatic. A cheer was raised in the news group. Now those of us who are timing challenged can use the same high quality, and plentiful, selection of iambic paddles. So we only squeeze the paddles, no side-to-side as with a single level paddle. And we get more predicable results. The four sound letters sometimes take more effort than iambic - but look at a P. squeeze and hold the dit, squeeze the dah to insert two dahs, release the dah for another dit. Not so bad. But again - it wasn't an argument about which is better or more efficient. It was just that some of us have struggled with the auto dit/dah of iambic and Ultimatic mode lets us use our iambic paddles but in a more relaxed manner. 73, Paul, K7NHB ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
