Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
end of thread. Eric List Moderator www.elecraft.com _..._ On Jun 20, 2012, at 7:48 PM, wrote: > Someone should tell the guys on 3.885 using "hollow state" technology such as > "kingpin AM dude" KC8ZUL > > See the following starting at 8:06 minutes in http://youtu.be/eEuNUE9hnM0 > Be sure to catch the glow at 20:25 > > Tony Estep wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:39 AM, nr4c wrote: >> >>> hams wanting to sound like the announcer on the big time radio >>> station...We'd need a different >>> license to sound that way. >>> >> === >> As Riley Hollingsworth (at that time the FCC ham-enforcement official) said >> at a Dayton presentation: "If you want to be a broadcaster, apply for a >> broadcast license." >> >> Tony KT0NY >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
Someone should tell the guys on 3.885 using "hollow state" technology such as "kingpin AM dude" KC8ZUL See the following starting at 8:06 minutes in http://youtu.be/eEuNUE9hnM0 Be sure to catch the glow at 20:25 Tony Estep wrote: > On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:39 AM, nr4c wrote: > > > hams wanting to sound like the announcer on the big time radio > > station...We'd need a different > > license to sound that way. > > > === > As Riley Hollingsworth (at that time the FCC ham-enforcement official) said > at a Dayton presentation: "If you want to be a broadcaster, apply for a > broadcast license." > > Tony KT0NY > > > > -- > http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 8:39 AM, nr4c wrote: > hams wanting to sound like the announcer on the big time radio > station...We'd need a different > license to sound that way. > === As Riley Hollingsworth (at that time the FCC ham-enforcement official) said at a Dayton presentation: "If you want to be a broadcaster, apply for a broadcast license." Tony KT0NY -- http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
George Carlin was a master of using the "proximity" effect of a microphone (SM-58, etc) to accent his punch lines. Terry, W0FM -Original Message- From: Scott Manthe [mailto:scott.man...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:59 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40 Those are good recommendations, Joe. I agree with working close on studio mics. The proximity effect was my good friend during my broadcast career. I've got a good voice, but working close to the mic made me sound like one of the "big voiced" guys. 73, Scott, N9AA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
I don't understand something. Every time on this list someone asks about a bit of fidelity in their audio, the naysayers jump in with all the usual tired counter arguments, usually punctuated by the infamous WWCD (what would Collins do). Why not just give it a bit of a break for a change. Huh? Please, oh please? Grant/NQ5T Sent from my iPad On Jun 20, 2012, at 9:38 AM, "Bob Stevens" wrote: > I agree with Bill; I ran a Collins S-line for 35 years before entering the > 21st century this year with a K3, and people talked about Collins sounding > so good-Art Collins was (is) not trying to sound like a broadcast station > but wanted to be able to communicate effectively-that's the real purpose of > our stations. Just my 2 cents worth, 73, Bob K9ING > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of nr4c > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:39 AM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40 > > I really think this thread has been about hams wanting to sound like the > announcer on the big time radio station with a million dollar transmitter > and a studio. That kind of sound is not really in the realm of amateur > communications, nor the budget. We'd need a different license to sound that > way. > > > My $0.02 worth > > ...bill nr4c > > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:16:29 -0700, eric manning wrote: >> Rich said: >> >> intelligibility is concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? >> >> I think so. If my failing memory serves, early Bell Labs work found >> that >> 300 - 3000 Hz was the minimum- width audio band which preserved >> intelligibility and allowed the speaker to be recognized. >> That became the basis of the A/D converters which in turn fed the >> T-series [T-1, T-2 etc] of digital transmission systems for the >> telephone network. >> On the other hand, much of this thread seems to be about speech >> fidelity [Does it sound Great?] as opposed to intelligibility [Can I >> copy it?] >> >> Eric >> VA7DZ >> >> -- >> >> "Democracy depends on well-informed voters; absent that, it is all mud >> flowing down hill." >> --Charles Harpole > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
I agree with Bill; I ran a Collins S-line for 35 years before entering the 21st century this year with a K3, and people talked about Collins sounding so good-Art Collins was (is) not trying to sound like a broadcast station but wanted to be able to communicate effectively-that's the real purpose of our stations. Just my 2 cents worth, 73, Bob K9ING -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of nr4c Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:39 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40 I really think this thread has been about hams wanting to sound like the announcer on the big time radio station with a million dollar transmitter and a studio. That kind of sound is not really in the realm of amateur communications, nor the budget. We'd need a different license to sound that way. My $0.02 worth ...bill nr4c On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:16:29 -0700, eric manning wrote: > Rich said: > > intelligibility is concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? > > I think so. If my failing memory serves, early Bell Labs work found > that > 300 - 3000 Hz was the minimum- width audio band which preserved > intelligibility and allowed the speaker to be recognized. > That became the basis of the A/D converters which in turn fed the > T-series [T-1, T-2 etc] of digital transmission systems for the > telephone network. > On the other hand, much of this thread seems to be about speech > fidelity [Does it sound Great?] as opposed to intelligibility [Can I > copy it?] > > Eric > VA7DZ > > -- > > "Democracy depends on well-informed voters; absent that, it is all mud > flowing down hill." > --Charles Harpole __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
I really think this thread has been about hams wanting to sound like the announcer on the big time radio station with a million dollar transmitter and a studio. That kind of sound is not really in the realm of amateur communications, nor the budget. We'd need a different license to sound that way. My $0.02 worth ...bill nr4c On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:16:29 -0700, eric manning wrote: > Rich said: > > intelligibility is concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? > > I think so. If my failing memory serves, early Bell Labs work found > that > 300 - 3000 Hz was the minimum- width audio band which preserved > intelligibility > and allowed the speaker to be recognized. > That became the basis of the A/D converters which in turn fed the > T-series [T-1, T-2 etc] of digital transmission systems for the > telephone network. > On the other hand, much of this thread seems to be about speech > fidelity > [Does it sound Great?] as opposed to intelligibility [Can I copy it?] > > Eric > VA7DZ > > -- > > "Democracy depends on well-informed voters; > absent that, it is all mud flowing down hill." > --Charles Harpole __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
Rich said: intelligibility is concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? I think so. If my failing memory serves, early Bell Labs work found that 300 - 3000 Hz was the minimum- width audio band which preserved intelligibility and allowed the speaker to be recognized. That became the basis of the A/D converters which in turn fed the T-series [T-1, T-2 etc] of digital transmission systems for the telephone network. On the other hand, much of this thread seems to be about speech fidelity [Does it sound Great?] as opposed to intelligibility [Can I copy it?] Eric VA7DZ -- "Democracy depends on well-informed voters; absent that, it is all mud flowing down hill." --Charles Harpole -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
Can I add my "AMEN" to the thoughts below? I also use a CM500 after dialing in some EQ and processing and, especially, TX GATE for my rather noisy operating environment (its either the garage next to the laundry or no shack, so I make do!) Although I do find it fun to test the AM capability of my receivers listening to ESSB guys. Some have enough energy past the carrier frequency that you can demodulate their signals in AM... All that bass creates a phantom carrier. These guys were ahead of their time in the unintended implementation of MDCL technology (Modulation Dependent Carrier Level, a way of saving electricity at AM stations newly blessed by the FCC for broadcasters). My station on air sound may not be very "manly", as an ESSB guy once told me on the air, but in most cases, the other guy tends to copy me well... And that is what this game is all about, right? -lu-w4lt- K3/P3/K1 == Message: 18 Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:39:50 -0700 From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Message-ID: <4fe0d586.3050...@audiosystemsgroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Second, while I don't know the specifics of the Heil mics, I'd guess that there's a strong presence peak around 3 kHz to compensate the rolloff produced by crystal filters in both the TX and the RX. This is also good engineering practice, but taken too far can be too bright. The easy solution in the K3 is to use some cut on the highest (and perhaps next to highest) filters. Third, a little proximity effect goes a long way, and proximity effect is VERY sensitive to distance. Proximity effect also increases breath pops and handling noise. When you work a mic TOO close, proximity effect will cause the lows to get louder and softer with very small changes in distance from your mouth. I use a Yamaha CM500, and keep it a few inches above and to the side of my mouth so that breath pops don't hit it (and so that I can swig coffee). I have the TXEQ and compression adjusted for competitive contesting and DX audio, and I get reports of great audio. Like Joe and Scott, I'm a retired broadcast and pro audio engineer, and I own several dozen pro mics, but I use the $40 Yamaha in my ham station. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
Thanks all for your Help! Joe's tips here were what did the trick! I finally got an audio report that stated I had plenty of lows and could actually use a little more high to round it off! I can work with that! Thanks again! 73! AC8JD -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/more-Bass-in-K3-with-PR-40-tp7557805p7557852.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
FWIW: I set my TX EQ, mic gain, and compression like Jim told me to and I use my Heil with the iC element just as he describes because he told me that too. I don't operate a lot of SSB, but in contests, I will get several unsolicited "great audio" comments over a few hours, every time, guaranteed. My wife tells me I have an "ordinary" male voice so the reports must be due to the radio. :-) 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org On 6/19/2012 12:39 PM, Jim Brown wrote: >I use a Yamaha CM500, and keep it a > few inches above and to the side of my mouth so that breath pops don't > hit it (and so that I can swig coffee). I have the TXEQ and compression > adjusted for competitive contesting and DX audio, and I get reports of > great audio. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
Yes - that would be 50 - 400 Hz for the lower end. -- IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
On 6/19/2012 8:59 AM, Scott Manthe wrote: > Those are good recommendations, Joe. A couple of other points. First, there's virtually no speech energy below 200 Hz -- anything the mic picks up in that range is hum, noise, and breath pops -- so it is good engineering practice to roll off (that is full cut) of the 50 Hz and 100 Hz band. Second, while I don't know the specifics of the Heil mics, I'd guess that there's a strong presence peak around 3 kHz to compensate the rolloff produced by crystal filters in both the TX and the RX. This is also good engineering practice, but taken too far can be too bright. The easy solution in the K3 is to use some cut on the highest (and perhaps next to highest) filters. Third, a little proximity effect goes a long way, and proximity effect is VERY sensitive to distance. Proximity effect also increases breath pops and handling noise. When you work a mic TOO close, proximity effect will cause the lows to get louder and softer with very small changes in distance from your mouth. I use a Yamaha CM500, and keep it a few inches above and to the side of my mouth so that breath pops don't hit it (and so that I can swig coffee). I have the TXEQ and compression adjusted for competitive contesting and DX audio, and I get reports of great audio. Like Joe and Scott, I'm a retired broadcast and pro audio engineer, and I own several dozen pro mics, but I use the $40 Yamaha in my ham station. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
There's a reason those low frequency ranges in the Human voice are called the "drone". They carry virtually no information but are simply a background sound. The problem is that the human vocal apparatus cannot modulate such low frequencies effectively. They work on the higher-frequency harmonics of the drone to produce what we call "speech". And, yet, those lower frequencies hog most of the audio energy in such voices and, when transmitted, hog most of the RF power. That's why female voices tend to carry better through the air or on the air. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- > I believe the vocal range for standard bass voices starts at about 87 > Hz, "super" basses might get as low as 65 Hz (C2). Perhaps the key > point is that intelligibility is concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? The lowest fundamental on record was 81 Hz IIRC ... most are closer to ans slightly above 100 HZ - particularly when the test subject is not making a conscious effort to breathe from the diaphragm/use a "trained" voice. From the very beginning of voice communications AT&T determined that 300-2700 Hz was more than adequate for "communications audio" - also known as "toll grade audio". Intelligibility is most important in the 1200-2400 Hz range - there is no energy in the human voice between roughly 800 and 1200 Hz. That's the reason I recommend +3dB at 1600 and +5dB at 2400 Hz (a 6dB/octave rising characteristic across the important spectrum). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/19/2012 1:06 PM, Rich wrote: > I'm not disagreeing with the recommendations at all, but it seems that > the rationale may be a bit off for some? I believe the vocal range > for standard bass voices starts at about 87 Hz, "super" basses might > get as low as 65 Hz (C2). Perhaps the key point is that > intelligibility is concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? > > Interesting to listen to recordings of low bass notes with "standard" > microphones and then with mics that are sensitive to 50 Hz, and then > listen to background noise and A/C noise. > > Rich > NU6T > > > On 6/19/2012 8:54 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and >>> adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good >>> balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. >>> With a little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent >>> sounding signal out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the "TEST" >>> feature or a dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. >> Most quality microphones sound best with a roll off at 50 (-16) and >> 100 (-6 to -9) and a slight peaking at 1600 (+3) and 2400 (+5) bands. >> If the microphone has some built-in peaking (e.g. Heil HC4/HC5) there >> is no need for the added peaking. >> >> The -200 Hz band can be increased slightly if your voice is "thin" >> but that will not be necessary in most cases. Except for a very few >> "super bass" voices there is no energy below about 100 Hz and rolling >> off those frequencies significantly reduces background noise/hum in >> the audio. >> >> If a PR-40 or other "studio" dynamic microphone sounds "thin" work >> closer to the mic to take advantage of the "presence" effect. Most >> studio mics are designed to be worked closely so they pick up only >> intended sounds and reject sound from other instruments/vocalists in >> the room. >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV >> >> >> >> On 6/19/2012 10:45 AM, Scott Manthe wrote: >>> I don't know where Bob gets those settings. I've got a Gold LIne and >>> those setting will make it sound terrible. >>> >>> First of all, you probably don't need an external equalizer, because >>> the >>> K3 has an 8 band equalizer built in. The standard 2.7 kHz filter can >>> be made to sound acceptably good, but you're not going to get ESSB >>> quality, because of the bandwidth. You'd need the 6 kHz filter for >>> that. I won't get into the "ESSB as good practice debate," other >>> than to say that most "ESSB" guys I hear on the air sound >>> ridiculous, and I was a professional broadcaster for years. >>> >>> I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and >>> adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good >>> balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. >>> With a little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent >>> sounding signal out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the >>> "TEST" feature or a dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. >>> >>> Good luck getting your audio the way you want it! >>> >>> 73, >>> Scott, N9AA >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/19/12 8:18 AM, ac8jd wrote: I have had this K3 up on the air for a few days now. I would be curious to know how I can get more "lows" or "bass" out of the TX on SSB with my PR-40. The audio reports I get from other stations are that I have a lot of "highs" and they can't open up their filter to get enough ba
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
> I believe the vocal range for standard bass voices starts at about 87 > Hz, "super" basses might get as low as 65 Hz (C2). Perhaps the key > point is that intelligibility is concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? The lowest fundamental on record was 81 Hz IIRC ... most are closer to ans slightly above 100 HZ - particularly when the test subject is not making a conscious effort to breathe from the diaphragm/use a "trained" voice. From the very beginning of voice communications AT&T determined that 300-2700 Hz was more than adequate for "communications audio" - also known as "toll grade audio". Intelligibility is most important in the 1200-2400 Hz range - there is no energy in the human voice between roughly 800 and 1200 Hz. That's the reason I recommend +3dB at 1600 and +5dB at 2400 Hz (a 6dB/octave rising characteristic across the important spectrum). 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/19/2012 1:06 PM, Rich wrote: > I'm not disagreeing with the recommendations at all, but it seems that > the rationale may be a bit off for some? I believe the vocal range for > standard bass voices starts at about 87 Hz, "super" basses might get as > low as 65 Hz (C2). Perhaps the key point is that intelligibility is > concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? > > Interesting to listen to recordings of low bass notes with "standard" > microphones and then with mics that are sensitive to 50 Hz, and then > listen to background noise and A/C noise. > > Rich > NU6T > > > On 6/19/2012 8:54 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >>> I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and >>> adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good >>> balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. With >>> a little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent sounding >>> signal out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the "TEST" >>> feature or a dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. >> Most quality microphones sound best with a roll off at 50 (-16) and >> 100 (-6 to -9) and a slight peaking at 1600 (+3) and 2400 (+5) bands. >> If the microphone has some built-in peaking (e.g. Heil HC4/HC5) there >> is no need for the added peaking. >> >> The -200 Hz band can be increased slightly if your voice is "thin" >> but that will not be necessary in most cases. Except for a very few >> "super bass" voices there is no energy below about 100 Hz and rolling >> off those frequencies significantly reduces background noise/hum in >> the audio. >> >> If a PR-40 or other "studio" dynamic microphone sounds "thin" work >> closer to the mic to take advantage of the "presence" effect. Most >> studio mics are designed to be worked closely so they pick up only >> intended sounds and reject sound from other instruments/vocalists >> in the room. >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV >> >> >> >> On 6/19/2012 10:45 AM, Scott Manthe wrote: >>> I don't know where Bob gets those settings. I've got a Gold LIne and >>> those setting will make it sound terrible. >>> >>> First of all, you probably don't need an external equalizer, because the >>> K3 has an 8 band equalizer built in. The standard 2.7 kHz filter can be >>> made to sound acceptably good, but you're not going to get ESSB quality, >>> because of the bandwidth. You'd need the 6 kHz filter for that. I won't >>> get into the "ESSB as good practice debate," other than to say that most >>> "ESSB" guys I hear on the air sound ridiculous, and I was a professional >>> broadcaster for years. >>> >>> I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and >>> adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good >>> balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. With a >>> little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent sounding signal >>> out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the "TEST" feature or a >>> dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. >>> >>> Good luck getting your audio the way you want it! >>> >>> 73, >>> Scott, N9AA >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/19/12 8:18 AM, ac8jd wrote: I have had this K3 up on the air for a few days now. I would be curious to know how I can get more "lows" or "bass" out of the TX on SSB with my PR-40. The audio reports I get from other stations are that I have a lot of "highs" and they can't open up their filter to get enough bandwidth on my signal to make it sound "lower". I have the TC equalizer set according to Heil's website for the Pr-40 http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/dspsettings/all_elecraft.php I just don't know how to achieve getting and lower levels to come out of the rig. I see in the manual to use the ESSB you have the 6khz filter. Would that help my situation? TNX, AC8JD >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mm
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
The next time I hear an opera performed on the amateur bands, I'll rethink my comments. But for communications, there is really no need to use any frequency below 100Hz, even for "hifi" SSB. Notice when you listen to an opera, bass singers often lack articulation and intelligibility. There is a reason tenors get all the good parts... 73, Scott, N9AA On 6/19/12 1:06 PM, Rich wrote: > I'm not disagreeing with the recommendations at all, but it seems that > the rationale may be a bit off for some? I believe the vocal range for > standard bass voices starts at about 87 Hz, "super" basses might get as > low as 65 Hz (C2). Perhaps the key point is that intelligibility is > concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? > > Interesting to listen to recordings of low bass notes with "standard" > microphones and then with mics that are sensitive to 50 Hz, and then > listen to background noise and A/C noise. > > Rich > NU6T > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
I'm not disagreeing with the recommendations at all, but it seems that the rationale may be a bit off for some? I believe the vocal range for standard bass voices starts at about 87 Hz, "super" basses might get as low as 65 Hz (C2). Perhaps the key point is that intelligibility is concentrated around 1-2K Hz. Yes? Interesting to listen to recordings of low bass notes with "standard" microphones and then with mics that are sensitive to 50 Hz, and then listen to background noise and A/C noise. Rich NU6T On 6/19/2012 8:54 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and >> adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good >> balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. With >> a little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent sounding >> signal out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the "TEST" >> feature or a dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. > Most quality microphones sound best with a roll off at 50 (-16) and > 100 (-6 to -9) and a slight peaking at 1600 (+3) and 2400 (+5) bands. > If the microphone has some built-in peaking (e.g. Heil HC4/HC5) there > is no need for the added peaking. > > The -200 Hz band can be increased slightly if your voice is "thin" > but that will not be necessary in most cases. Except for a very few > "super bass" voices there is no energy below about 100 Hz and rolling > off those frequencies significantly reduces background noise/hum in > the audio. > > If a PR-40 or other "studio" dynamic microphone sounds "thin" work > closer to the mic to take advantage of the "presence" effect. Most > studio mics are designed to be worked closely so they pick up only > intended sounds and reject sound from other instruments/vocalists > in the room. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > On 6/19/2012 10:45 AM, Scott Manthe wrote: >> I don't know where Bob gets those settings. I've got a Gold LIne and >> those setting will make it sound terrible. >> >> First of all, you probably don't need an external equalizer, because the >> K3 has an 8 band equalizer built in. The standard 2.7 kHz filter can be >> made to sound acceptably good, but you're not going to get ESSB quality, >> because of the bandwidth. You'd need the 6 kHz filter for that. I won't >> get into the "ESSB as good practice debate," other than to say that most >> "ESSB" guys I hear on the air sound ridiculous, and I was a professional >> broadcaster for years. >> >> I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and >> adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good >> balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. With a >> little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent sounding signal >> out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the "TEST" feature or a >> dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. >> >> Good luck getting your audio the way you want it! >> >> 73, >> Scott, N9AA >> >> >> >> On 6/19/12 8:18 AM, ac8jd wrote: >>> I have had this K3 up on the air for a few days now. I would be curious to >>> know how I can get more "lows" or "bass" out of the TX on SSB with my PR-40. >>> The audio reports I get from other stations are that I have a lot of "highs" >>> and they can't open up their filter to get enough bandwidth on my signal to >>> make it sound "lower". >>> >>> I have the TC equalizer set according to Heil's website for the Pr-40 >>> http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/dspsettings/all_elecraft.php >>> >>> I just don't know how to achieve getting and lower levels to come out of the >>> rig. I see in the manual to use the ESSB you have the 6khz filter. Would >>> that help my situation? >>> >>> TNX, >>> AC8JD >>> >>> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
Those are good recommendations, Joe. I agree with working close on studio mics. The proximity effect was my good friend during my broadcast career. I've got a good voice, but working close to the mic made me sound like one of the "big voiced" guys. 73, Scott, N9AA On 6/19/12 11:54 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > Most quality microphones sound best with a roll off at 50 (-16) and > 100 (-6 to -9) and a slight peaking at 1600 (+3) and 2400 (+5) bands. > If the microphone has some built-in peaking (e.g. Heil HC4/HC5) there > is no need for the added peaking. > > The -200 Hz band can be increased slightly if your voice is "thin" > but that will not be necessary in most cases. Except for a very few > "super bass" voices there is no energy below about 100 Hz and rolling > off those frequencies significantly reduces background noise/hum in > the audio. > > If a PR-40 or other "studio" dynamic microphone sounds "thin" work > closer to the mic to take advantage of the "presence" effect. Most > studio mics are designed to be worked closely so they pick up only > intended sounds and reject sound from other instruments/vocalists > in the room. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
> I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and > adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good > balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. With > a little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent sounding > signal out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the "TEST" > feature or a dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. Most quality microphones sound best with a roll off at 50 (-16) and 100 (-6 to -9) and a slight peaking at 1600 (+3) and 2400 (+5) bands. If the microphone has some built-in peaking (e.g. Heil HC4/HC5) there is no need for the added peaking. The -200 Hz band can be increased slightly if your voice is "thin" but that will not be necessary in most cases. Except for a very few "super bass" voices there is no energy below about 100 Hz and rolling off those frequencies significantly reduces background noise/hum in the audio. If a PR-40 or other "studio" dynamic microphone sounds "thin" work closer to the mic to take advantage of the "presence" effect. Most studio mics are designed to be worked closely so they pick up only intended sounds and reject sound from other instruments/vocalists in the room. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/19/2012 10:45 AM, Scott Manthe wrote: > I don't know where Bob gets those settings. I've got a Gold LIne and > those setting will make it sound terrible. > > First of all, you probably don't need an external equalizer, because the > K3 has an 8 band equalizer built in. The standard 2.7 kHz filter can be > made to sound acceptably good, but you're not going to get ESSB quality, > because of the bandwidth. You'd need the 6 kHz filter for that. I won't > get into the "ESSB as good practice debate," other than to say that most > "ESSB" guys I hear on the air sound ridiculous, and I was a professional > broadcaster for years. > > I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and > adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good > balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. With a > little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent sounding signal > out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the "TEST" feature or a > dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. > > Good luck getting your audio the way you want it! > > 73, > Scott, N9AA > > > > On 6/19/12 8:18 AM, ac8jd wrote: >> I have had this K3 up on the air for a few days now. I would be curious to >> know how I can get more "lows" or "bass" out of the TX on SSB with my PR-40. >> The audio reports I get from other stations are that I have a lot of "highs" >> and they can't open up their filter to get enough bandwidth on my signal to >> make it sound "lower". >> >> I have the TC equalizer set according to Heil's website for the Pr-40 >> http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/dspsettings/all_elecraft.php >> >> I just don't know how to achieve getting and lower levels to come out of the >> rig. I see in the manual to use the ESSB you have the 6khz filter. Would >> that help my situation? >> >> TNX, >> AC8JD >> >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
Keep in mind that the PR 40 microphone is very sensitive to 'proximity effect' (where close-talking the microphone results in a significant rise in low frequency output). I'd suggest that you keep at least 3 to 4 inches away from the microphone while speaking, and keep that distance *constant* as you experiment with your K3 TX EQ settings. 73, Dale WA8SRA On 6/19/2012 8:18 AM, ac8jd wrote: > I have had this K3 up on the air for a few days now. I would be curious to > know how I can get more "lows" or "bass" out of the TX on SSB with my PR-40. > The audio reports I get from other stations are that I have a lot of "highs" > and they can't open up their filter to get enough bandwidth on my signal to > make it sound "lower". > > I have the TC equalizer set according to Heil's website for the Pr-40 > http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/dspsettings/all_elecraft.php > > I just don't know how to achieve getting and lower levels to come out of the > rig. I see in the manual to use the ESSB you have the 6khz filter. Would > that help my situation? > > TNX, > AC8JD > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/more-Bass-in-K3-with-PR-40-tp7557805.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
I don't know where Bob gets those settings. I've got a Gold LIne and those setting will make it sound terrible. First of all, you probably don't need an external equalizer, because the K3 has an 8 band equalizer built in. The standard 2.7 kHz filter can be made to sound acceptably good, but you're not going to get ESSB quality, because of the bandwidth. You'd need the 6 kHz filter for that. I won't get into the "ESSB as good practice debate," other than to say that most "ESSB" guys I hear on the air sound ridiculous, and I was a professional broadcaster for years. I would start at zero across the board, lowering the low end and adjusting the mids and highs *slightly* upward until you get a good balance of decent lows and good presence on the mid to high end. With a little patience and a good ear, you'll get an excellent sounding signal out of the K3. Of course, you'll want to use the "TEST" feature or a dummy load and listen to yourself with the TX monitor. Good luck getting your audio the way you want it! 73, Scott, N9AA On 6/19/12 8:18 AM, ac8jd wrote: > I have had this K3 up on the air for a few days now. I would be curious to > know how I can get more "lows" or "bass" out of the TX on SSB with my PR-40. > The audio reports I get from other stations are that I have a lot of "highs" > and they can't open up their filter to get enough bandwidth on my signal to > make it sound "lower". > > I have the TC equalizer set according to Heil's website for the Pr-40 > http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/dspsettings/all_elecraft.php > > I just don't know how to achieve getting and lower levels to come out of the > rig. I see in the manual to use the ESSB you have the 6khz filter. Would > that help my situation? > > TNX, > AC8JD > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
The rule of thumb in the world of professional audio is that you should -cut- rather than boost frequencies to achieve the sound you want when using "equalizers". So, if you have a lot of highs... cut the highs. Adjust overall gain upward to compensate if the overall level becomes too low. From what I understand, "ESSB" is simply wider bandwidth sideband... usually by using a wider filter to permit more low audio frequencies and more high audio frequencies to pass through. The result is an on- air signal that "sounds nicer"... since with it's wider bandwidth, approaches the audio sound of an AM station that has no bandwidth filtering or constriction. You can argue the case that ESSB is not good amateur practice, since you are using more bandwidth for your communication, but then, the good practice (and FCC rule) of using only the minimum power necessary to maintain communication is honored more in the breech, than the observance. But, there are many hams, and many ways of communicating and as long as the RF emissions are clean and in line with FCC regulations, there's room for all types of signals and bandwidths. Certainly, ESSB is no wider than an AM signal can be, and AM is clearly permitted in the rules. 73 de Ray K2ULR On Jun 19, 2012, at 8:18 AM, ac8jd wrote: > I have had this K3 up on the air for a few days now. I would be > curious to > know how I can get more "lows" or "bass" out of the TX on SSB with > my PR-40. > The audio reports I get from other stations are that I have a lot of > "highs" > and they can't open up their filter to get enough bandwidth on my > signal to > make it sound "lower". > > I have the TC equalizer set according to Heil's website for the Pr-40 > http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/dspsettings/all_elecraft.php > > I just don't know how to achieve getting and lower levels to come > out of the > rig. I see in the manual to use the ESSB you have the 6khz filter. > Would > that help my situation? > > TNX, > AC8JD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
By "lower four settings" you mean the 50hz - 400hz parts? -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/more-Bass-in-K3-with-PR-40-tp7557805p7557809.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
Try bring the lower four setting up to zero. The way it is now, to me, seems to not allow much drive of the low end audio frequencies. Bill W2BLC -- IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] more Bass in K3 with PR-40
I have had this K3 up on the air for a few days now. I would be curious to know how I can get more "lows" or "bass" out of the TX on SSB with my PR-40. The audio reports I get from other stations are that I have a lot of "highs" and they can't open up their filter to get enough bandwidth on my signal to make it sound "lower". I have the TC equalizer set according to Heil's website for the Pr-40 http://www.heilsound.com/amateur/dspsettings/all_elecraft.php I just don't know how to achieve getting and lower levels to come out of the rig. I see in the manual to use the ESSB you have the 6khz filter. Would that help my situation? TNX, AC8JD -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/more-Bass-in-K3-with-PR-40-tp7557805.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
