RE: [Elecraft] size of radio limits?
Well, we will get what we get. Small is nice, and I think the K3 would make a GREAT mobile rig, I might try it! It should be great on 10 when that band opens up. Elecraft has always taken into account size, weight, and power on their rigs, as many carry them up mountains and all over the world. They are the best rigs for that. That is why I think it would be neat to offer a home version of the K3, same circuits as a K3, but in a larger box and with a band scope and band buttons (or more one button, one push functions). I would guess once you make a rig this good, with all the features and performance the K3 has, and not as a kit, loads of mainstream people will want one, to sit on the desk of their large shack, and being small will annoy them. There were complaints about the K2 being too small from those types. I was looking on ebay last night, and found a remote color display for some rig, a nice standalone color display like a small computer LCD monitor, for $140.00 each. The display looked better than what is on the ten tec rigs! So maybe adding one would not be so expensive as it looks... I got to wonder how big Elecraft wants to get, with the new K3 and the K3 home version, the amplifiers they are working on, plus all the other stuff they sell, they could get quite huge if they wanted to I would think... Or would that ruin things? Brett N2DTS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Harpole Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:06 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? I do not accept Elecraft's reasoning that their rig is too small for that feature. At under 9 lbs, and the dimensions less than a loaf of bread, the K3 is already so small that it is nearing functional limits on the front panel compared to the size of fingers. And, yes, I think the IC-706 went well beyond the functional limit... too small. Ok, let us say a couple of desired features, like band stacking registers, would have added a half inch height to the front panel oh, gee, what a horror! Let us say another feature like band buttons or two other features would have added a whole pound to its weight, oh, no, its maybe even 12 pounds I can't carry it !!! Please, when a radio is this small, sacrificing reasonable other features because of size or weight is just not a reasonable excuse in my book. Cost, maybe; size, no. When ever did a ham say, oh gosh, this radio is just too big? Maybe the one day when he carries it onto his desk? Many more likely say, as I have hrd so often, the rig is too llittle for me. So where is the drive coming from for smaller is better? Ok, mobile rigs need to be small. So, I am going mobile with my K3 ? not, and few are, I bet. There does not even seem to be a mobile mount sold with it, telling us something there. I need a light rig for DXpeditions-- got one already (706), and how few K3 owners will go on DXpeditions? Maybe 2 dozen? So, maybe the need for a small K3 amounts to about 100 mobile uses and maybe 50 DXpeditioners. For 150 customers, lets design a small radio and let the other thousands of buyers cope with tiny, but, let us excuse left off features by saying everyone wanted it small Ha ! BUT, please keep my order for a K3 kit active 73 Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] size of radio limits?
I don't get this rant. There ARE band-stacking registers on the K3. In fact, FOUR per band instead of the three per band on the ProIII and only two per band in some other radios. Yes, the band-changing UI is different than the ProIII and other radios, but you know what? ... I've gotten to like it even more, once I opened my mind up to a different UI. Believe me, I and several other focus group members and field testers have pounded on Wayne and the design team for over two years now on the critical features needed in the K3. Band registers is one of them. Yes, the K3 band-changing UI is different than many other radios, but that doesn't make it wrong or bad or inferior ... just different. I suggest you QRX until you get your hands on a K3 and that you approach it with an open mind. It is an amazing and impressive radio. 73, Ed - W0YK -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Harpole Sent: Thursday, 26 July, 2007 23:06 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? I do not accept Elecraft's reasoning that their rig is too small for that feature. At under 9 lbs, and the dimensions less than a loaf of bread, the K3 is already so small that it is nearing functional limits on the front panel compared to the size of fingers. And, yes, I think the IC-706 went well beyond the functional limit... too small. Ok, let us say a couple of desired features, like band stacking registers, would have added a half inch height to the front panel oh, gee, what a horror! Let us say another feature like band buttons or two other features would have added a whole pound to its weight, oh, no, its maybe even 12 pounds I can't carry it !!! Please, when a radio is this small, sacrificing reasonable other features because of size or weight is just not a reasonable excuse in my book. Cost, maybe; size, no. When ever did a ham say, oh gosh, this radio is just too big? Maybe the one day when he carries it onto his desk? Many more likely say, as I have hrd so often, the rig is too llittle for me. So where is the drive coming from for smaller is better? Ok, mobile rigs need to be small. So, I am going mobile with my K3 ? not, and few are, I bet. There does not even seem to be a mobile mount sold with it, telling us something there. I need a light rig for DXpeditions-- got one already (706), and how few K3 owners will go on DXpeditions? Maybe 2 dozen? So, maybe the need for a small K3 amounts to about 100 mobile uses and maybe 50 DXpeditioners. For 150 customers, lets design a small radio and let the other thousands of buyers cope with tiny, but, let us excuse left off features by saying everyone wanted it small Ha ! BUT, please keep my order for a K3 kit active 73 Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ http://newlivehotmail.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
W4ZV: How are these indicated on the display? I don't see an indication on the high resolution picture. Of course I used an Orion for several years without band- stacking indication but I hope the K3 has one. No indication planned on the display. You select the per-band memory you want by tapping M-V followed by the appropriate M1-M4 button. (Programmed by V-M.) Numbered memories 00-99 are global. How would you use an indicator? 73, Ed - W0YK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
No wonder I was being confused by all this - HEY, if you can access any of the 4 memories randomly, then it is no longer a 'stack'! From what little programming I learned, a 'stack' is accessed only from the top - you stuff things into it, and then remove the topmost one, throw it away if that is not what you wanted and do it over again until you have the correct one. (OK, my mind goes back to the 8080 PUSH and POP instructions). If it were me, I would have named them something like 'In-band memory' rather than 'Band Stacking Memory', but I guess there is some precedent for that name. In any case, I am glad that the K3 offers random access for these memories. 73, Don W3FPR Bill Tippett wrote: W0YK: No indication planned on the display. You select the per-band memory you want by tapping M-V followed by the appropriate M1-M4 button. (Programmed by V-M.) Numbered memories 00-99 are global. I've got it now. You directly access the desired stack memory by choosing M1-M4. So I would adopt a simple convention M1 = CW, M2 = SSB, etc. The stack in Orion was accessed by pressing the band button with the 4-stack memory rotating in one direction only. The only way to tell which stack you were on was to scroll through all 4. Eventually (...after 3 years) they added an ABCD indicator to the display. How would you use an indicator? Given the way the K3 stack works I agree one is unnecessary. I also like being able to directly access a stack memory with just 2 button presses, rather than potentially using 4 presses via scrolling, as in Orion and Omni VII. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
Don Wilhelm wrote: No wonder I was being confused by all this - HEY, if you can access any of the 4 memories randomly, then it is no longer a 'stack'! From what little programming I learned, a 'stack' is accessed only from the top - you stuff things into it, and then remove the topmost one, throw it away if that is not what you wanted and do it over again until you have the correct one. (OK, my mind goes back to the 8080 PUSH and POP instructions). If it were me, I would have named them something like 'In-band memory' rather than 'Band Stacking Memory', but I guess there is some precedent for that name. In any case, I am glad that the K3 offers random access for these memories. Right on, Don. It is not a stack. The implementation of band-stacking resisters in most of the available rigs today is that of a circular queue, a first-in first-out (FIFO) mechanism that is only accessible in one direction from the starting point. I much prefer the Elecraft K3 random-access array of memories. Gus Hansen KB0YH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
unnecessary. I also like being able to directly access a stack memory with just 2 button presses, rather than potentially using 4 presses via scrolling, as in Orion and Omni VII. Exactly. Leave it to Elecraft to thoughtfully consider the use case for band-stacking registers and implement a better solution. We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking registers since the K3 has random access band memories. That's just the name everyone knows the function by since prior radios implemented it that way. 73, Ed - W0YK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
At 12:15 PM 27/07/07, you wrote: We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking registers since the K3 has random access band memories. That's just the name everyone knows the function by since prior radios implemented it that way. 73, Ed - W0YK How about direct access band memories? Random makes it sound like when you press M1-4, you don't know what you're going to get. John k7up ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
John, The 'random' goes with the 'access' and not with 'memory'. The terms 'random access' and 'serial access' have been used since the days computers started to move away from tape I/O devices (serial access) to other devices where you could point to any data address and access it (random access). So to my computer oriented mind, random access is preferable - the fact that the word 'stack' has been glued into the fact that such memories exist is the problem when it should refer to the access method. 73, Don W3FPR John wrote: At 12:15 PM 27/07/07, you wrote: We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking registers since the K3 has random access band memories. That's just the name everyone knows the function by since prior radios implemented it that way. 73, Ed - W0YK How about direct access band memories? Random makes it sound like when you press M1-4, you don't know what you're going to get. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
My point exactly! John k7up At 01:12 PM 27/07/07, you wrote: We have too much time on our hands. Bob Serwy - N9RS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:03 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3 At 12:15 PM 27/07/07, you wrote: We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking registers since the K3 has random access band memories. That's just the name everyone knows the function by since prior radios implemented it that way. 73, Ed - W0YK How about direct access band memories? Random makes it sound like when you press M1-4, you don't know what you're going to get. John k7up ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] size of radio limits? - K3
Hi Don Gary As a person who has been sending RAM uploads to satellites since 1964, 21 years with the Air Force and 20 years working for NASA, I have somewhat of an idea of what RAM is. Had to build loads and send them real time on the fly many times in emergency situations, to ensure things like attitude control algorithms were functioning properly . I was just adding my 2 cents worth to the thread. It just seems like we get on a subject here and beat it to death. BTW, retired here and enjoying radio. Been licensed since 1958 and these Elecraft radios are about the neatest radios I've ever owned and have had the pleasure to operate. John k7up At 01:41 PM 27/07/07, you wrote: John, The 'random' goes with the 'access' and not with 'memory'. The terms 'random access' and 'serial access' have been used since the days computers started to move away from tape I/O devices (serial access) to other devices where you could point to any data address and access it (random access). So to my computer oriented mind, random access is preferable - the fact that the word 'stack' has been glued into the fact that such memories exist is the problem when it should refer to the access method. 73, Don W3FPR John wrote: At 12:15 PM 27/07/07, you wrote: We should probably stop perpetuating the name band-stacking registers since the K3 has random access band memories. That's just the name everyone knows the function by since prior radios implemented it that way. 73, Ed - W0YK How about direct access band memories? Random makes it sound like when you press M1-4, you don't know what you're going to get. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
