Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
Dear Joe With respect, it seems to me that the secret sauce in the K3 is largely in the FIRMWARE, which is why I carefully avoided even mentioning it, let alone asking for descriptive material on it. [ I agree that Elecraft would be nuts to publish the firmware in human-readable form, and I trust that developing same from the bit strings in ROM is too expensive to tempt the competitors to do so. Besides, competitors would have to sell K3 or K3 superset hardware to make direct use of it. I also trust that Elecraft has filed patents on the appropriate items, and will defend them vigorously.] If much of the proprietary advantage lay in the HARDWARE, would Elecraft publish a complete set of schematics? They would not. [Fault diagnosis would be done entirely by Don and Scott telling us to measure voltage X at pin Y.] As you noted, a set of schematics, plus a working K3, plus a half-decent lab, is all that a good electronics/rf engineer would need to develop the 'what' and 'how' information which I mentioned. So, the information you are worried about is already out there. Finally, Wayne Eric would, I'm sure, keep mum about any really subtle, obscure yet critical bits of design. The text would just make it easier or possible for us amateurs to understand the design, and more important, the design choices, why the K3 was designed the way it was. BTW, I think that seminars at Pacificon might be an even better way to give us this insight, as one of the Sams proposed. 73 Eric VA7DZ The On 07/12/10 9:54 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: While we're on the topic, I would really like to have a text describing the design of the K3, an aid in understanding what the components do, the design choices and why they were made, WHY modules were designed the way that they were, and HOW they work at the component or group of components level. This is absurd! Much of what you are asking for falls in the category of trade secrets. Why certain design decisions were made and how specific circuits work are often key items of competitive advantage. A competent RF designer may be able to reverse engineer the circuit board or schematic and get a reasonable idea of how something works and maybe guess the reason for key design choices but why should Wayne give away his secrets? Nikon doesn't provide schematics, circuit descriptions and design process summaries with its digital cameras. Even if that information would somehow be useful to the user, it would never be released as Panasonic or Canon or Olympus or Sony could easily use that information to their competitive advantage. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 12/8/2010 12:15 AM, eric manning wrote: While we're on the topic, I would really like to have a text describing the design of the K3, an aid in understanding what the components do, the design choices and why they were made, WHY modules were designed the way that they were, and HOW they work at the component or group of components level. Something more detailed than the very sketchy how it works piece in the Owner's manual, but less detailed than the schematics - a document which I could read while staring at the schematics, which would help me understand why the circuits were designed the way they were and how they work. Yes, it would likely be at least 100 pages, but . . . Bring It On! [ G W Bush] Elliot Organick wrote a similar piece [ a book] about the Multics Operating System [the Mother of Unix, in a way] and it was very valuable. Eric Va7DZ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
Each new version of the firmware (including beta versions) comes with a description of the changes made. In fact the document included describes each change that the update includes dating back to MCU 1.65 and DSP 1.52, 1-28-08. You don't have to ask for it. The file name is hfwnotes.rtf and you can find it at the URL below... ftp://ftp.elecraft.com What else do you want to know about the firmware that isn't proprietary? 73, Tom Childers Radio Amateur N5GE Licensed since 1976 QCWA Member 35102 ARRL Life Member On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:47:03 -0800, eric manning eric.mann...@engr.uvic.ca wrote: [snip] With respect, it seems to me that the secret sauce in the K3 is largely in the FIRMWARE, which is why I carefully avoided even mentioning it, let alone asking for descriptive material on it. [snip] __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
Perhaps the small group seeking insights into the design of the K3 could show us all where this information has been supplied by Y,K Y etc? I am sure it is not high on Elecraft's list of 'things to do' and so it may be quite a while before the information you seek is released. Already the competitors have sat up and taken notice of just how good the K3 has become and are now scrambling to bring products out that can offer competing specifications. Just my 2 cents worth...keep the change :-) 73's Gary On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:20 AM, Amateur Radio Operator N5GE n...@n5ge.comwrote: Each new version of the firmware (including beta versions) comes with a description of the changes made. In fact the document included describes each change that the update includes dating back to MCU 1.65 and DSP 1.52, 1-28-08. You don't have to ask for it. The file name is hfwnotes.rtf and you can find it at the URL below... ftp://ftp.elecraft.com What else do you want to know about the firmware that isn't proprietary? 73, Tom Childers Radio Amateur N5GE Licensed since 1976 QCWA Member 35102 ARRL Life Member On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:47:03 -0800, eric manning eric.mann...@engr.uvic.ca wrote: [snip] With respect, it seems to me that the secret sauce in the K3 is largely in the FIRMWARE, which is why I carefully avoided even mentioning it, let alone asking for descriptive material on it. [snip] __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679, P3 #546 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
For all of those that asked for it on here I have sent a series of 5 documents regarding some of the K3 NB/NR etc. Tools. I hope that was helpful to you. If there are others that would like a copy please send me mail off the reflector. Thank you, 73, Michael N6MQL (assigned) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 19:38:24 +0100 From: helmut.be...@t-online.de To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction Dear Wayne, From my point of view I like to have a written (Paper or pdf) manual. I see your effort in updating such a manual with every performance feature extension of the firmware (e.g. APF) and additional modules like DVR, K144XV, P3, KPA500, K432XV (hopefully), A short description should be in the manual, more details tips then at K3FAQ.htm. So to find a compromise a manual update once a year would be OK for me. vy 73 de Helmut - DL2MAJ - K3 #1804 On 06.12.2010 19:09, Wayne Burdick wrote: Note that we already have an extensive FAQ page for the K3: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3FAQ.htm There are many operating tips on this page, categorized by mode, etc. NR is one of the areas covered. Would this be a good place to add more extensive operating advice? This page can be updated much more easily than the owner's manual. 73, Wayne N6KR On Dec 6, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Edward Dickinson, III wrote: Hi Pete, Your thoughts regarding usage and perhaps techniques may have some merit. A web page or perhaps PDF document may be appropriate for distribution. With modest resources, either might be created. Have you considered offering to be a clearing house for such information regarding 'how's' that might be provided by fellow Elecraft users? I suspect that offering here on the Elecraft reflector might give you some good material from others for a start. With a little success in format and content, even more might be encouraged to participate. Sources such as names and call signs of contributors might be included. If all passes muster, Elecraft might provide a link to a download or webpage. Good luck 73, Dick - KA5KKT One of the things that strikes me reading through the manual is how little advice there is in it about how to use the K3, as opposed to documenting its features. I'm sure that the defaults probably represent their best judgment in many cases, and that the guys probably despaired at anticipating the needs of such a diverse community, without coming up with a 300-page book, but when the manual doesn't even suggest whether to use ADC-F or AGC-S for various modes, I think that's being a little too neutral. Question is how can we, as a user community, fill this gap? Maybe the VA3CR web page for the 1000MP series offers a possible model. Any volunteers? -- 73, Pete N4ZR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
What happened to the K3 wiki? Wouldn't that be a good place for users to develop a handbook? Buck k4ia K3 #101 In a message dated 12/7/2010 11:54:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, notforc...@hotmail.com writes: For all of those that asked for it on here I have sent a series of 5 documents regarding some of the K3 NB/NR etc. Tools. I hope that was helpful to you. If there are others that would like a copy please send me mail off the reflector. Thank you, 73, Michael N6MQL (assigned) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
No, it wouldn't. A wiki wouldn't be organized any better than the current K3 manual. The K3 manual suffers less from not having enough important information than it does from being structured like it was written by an engineer who felt he had more important things to do. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/7/2010 9:58 AM, k...@aol.com wrote: What happened to the K3 wiki? Wouldn't that be a good place for users to develop a handbook? Buck k4ia K3 #101 In a message dated 12/7/2010 11:54:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, notforc...@hotmail.com writes: For all of those that asked for it on here I have sent a series of 5 documents regarding some of the K3 NB/NR etc. Tools. I hope that was helpful to you. If there are others that would like a copy please send me mail off the reflector. Thank you, 73, Michael N6MQL (assigned) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
The K3 Wiki was pulled by Thom LaCosta due to lack of use. Besides, it would be more disjointed than the manual!! 73, Don, WB5HAK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
While we're on the topic, I would really like to have a text describing the design of the K3, an aid in understanding what the components do, the design choices and why they were made, WHY modules were designed the way that they were, and HOW they work at the component or group of components level. Something more detailed than the very sketchy how it works piece in the Owner's manual, but less detailed than the schematics - a document which I could read while staring at the schematics, which would help me understand why the circuits were designed the way they were and how they work. Yes, it would likely be at least 100 pages, but . . . Bring It On! [ G W Bush] Elliot Organick wrote a similar piece [ a book] about the Multics Operating System [the Mother of Unix, in a way] and it was very valuable. Eric Va7DZ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
Hi Pete, Your thoughts regarding usage and perhaps techniques may have some merit. A web page or perhaps PDF document may be appropriate for distribution. With modest resources, either might be created. Have you considered offering to be a clearing house for such information regarding 'how's' that might be provided by fellow Elecraft users? I suspect that offering here on the Elecraft reflector might give you some good material from others for a start. With a little success in format and content, even more might be encouraged to participate. Sources such as names and call signs of contributors might be included. If all passes muster, Elecraft might provide a link to a download or webpage. Good luck 73, Dick - KA5KKT One of the things that strikes me reading through the manual is how little advice there is in it about how to use the K3, as opposed to documenting its features. I'm sure that the defaults probably represent their best judgment in many cases, and that the guys probably despaired at anticipating the needs of such a diverse community, without coming up with a 300-page book, but when the manual doesn't even suggest whether to use ADC-F or AGC-S for various modes, I think that's being a little too neutral. Question is how can we, as a user community, fill this gap? Maybe the VA3CR web page for the 1000MP series offers a possible model. Any volunteers? -- 73, Pete N4ZR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
Note that we already have an extensive FAQ page for the K3: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3FAQ.htm There are many operating tips on this page, categorized by mode, etc. NR is one of the areas covered. Would this be a good place to add more extensive operating advice? This page can be updated much more easily than the owner's manual. 73, Wayne N6KR On Dec 6, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Edward Dickinson, III wrote: Hi Pete, Your thoughts regarding usage and perhaps techniques may have some merit. A web page or perhaps PDF document may be appropriate for distribution. With modest resources, either might be created. Have you considered offering to be a clearing house for such information regarding 'how's' that might be provided by fellow Elecraft users? I suspect that offering here on the Elecraft reflector might give you some good material from others for a start. With a little success in format and content, even more might be encouraged to participate. Sources such as names and call signs of contributors might be included. If all passes muster, Elecraft might provide a link to a download or webpage. Good luck 73, Dick - KA5KKT One of the things that strikes me reading through the manual is how little advice there is in it about how to use the K3, as opposed to documenting its features. I'm sure that the defaults probably represent their best judgment in many cases, and that the guys probably despaired at anticipating the needs of such a diverse community, without coming up with a 300-page book, but when the manual doesn't even suggest whether to use ADC-F or AGC-S for various modes, I think that's being a little too neutral. Question is how can we, as a user community, fill this gap? Maybe the VA3CR web page for the 1000MP series offers a possible model. Any volunteers? -- 73, Pete N4ZR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
A FAQ or youtube video on operating split would be most helpful for us newbies. - Original Message - From: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, December 6, 2010 12:09:54 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction Note that we already have an extensive FAQ page for the K3: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3FAQ.htm There are many operating tips on this page, categorized by mode, etc. NR is one of the areas covered. Would this be a good place to add more extensive operating advice? This page can be updated much more easily than the owner's manual. 73, Wayne N6KR On Dec 6, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Edward Dickinson, III wrote: Hi Pete, Your thoughts regarding usage and perhaps techniques may have some merit. A web page or perhaps PDF document may be appropriate for distribution. With modest resources, either might be created. Have you considered offering to be a clearing house for such information regarding 'how's' that might be provided by fellow Elecraft users? I suspect that offering here on the Elecraft reflector might give you some good material from others for a start. With a little success in format and content, even more might be encouraged to participate. Sources such as names and call signs of contributors might be included. If all passes muster, Elecraft might provide a link to a download or webpage. Good luck 73, Dick - KA5KKT One of the things that strikes me reading through the manual is how little advice there is in it about how to use the K3, as opposed to documenting its features. I'm sure that the defaults probably represent their best judgment in many cases, and that the guys probably despaired at anticipating the needs of such a diverse community, without coming up with a 300-page book, but when the manual doesn't even suggest whether to use ADC-F or AGC-S for various modes, I think that's being a little too neutral. Question is how can we, as a user community, fill this gap? Maybe the VA3CR web page for the 1000MP series offers a possible model. Any volunteers? -- 73, Pete N4ZR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Need for advice was; noise reduction
Yes. 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 12/6/2010 1:09 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Note that we already have an extensive FAQ page for the K3: http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3FAQ.htm There are many operating tips on this page, categorized by mode, etc. NR is one of the areas covered. Would this be a good place to add more extensive operating advice? This page can be updated much more easily than the owner's manual. 73, Wayne N6KR On Dec 6, 2010, at 9:51 AM, Edward Dickinson, III wrote: Hi Pete, Your thoughts regarding usage and perhaps techniques may have some merit. A web page or perhaps PDF document may be appropriate for distribution. With modest resources, either might be created. Have you considered offering to be a clearing house for such information regarding 'how's' that might be provided by fellow Elecraft users? I suspect that offering here on the Elecraft reflector might give you some good material from others for a start. With a little success in format and content, even more might be encouraged to participate. Sources such as names and call signs of contributors might be included. If all passes muster, Elecraft might provide a link to a download or webpage. Good luck 73, Dick - KA5KKT One of the things that strikes me reading through the manual is how little advice there is in it about how to use the K3, as opposed to documenting its features. I'm sure that the defaults probably represent their best judgment in many cases, and that the guys probably despaired at anticipating the needs of such a diverse community, without coming up with a 300-page book, but when the manual doesn't even suggest whether to use ADC-F or AGC-S for various modes, I think that's being a little too neutral. Question is how can we, as a user community, fill this gap? Maybe the VA3CR web page for the 1000MP series offers a possible model. Any volunteers? -- 73, Pete N4ZR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
