Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
You mean Bob Shrader W6BNB? 73 Josh W6XU Sent from my mobile device > On May 26, 2018, at 8:23 AM, Dave Fugleberg wrote: > > Schraeder was the text for my Communications class in tech school in the > early 80s. > One requirement to pass the course was to earn the FCC General Class > Radiotelephone license. I believe nearly everyone in the class did. It also > made it pretty easy to upgrade my ham ticket from Novice to Advanced during > that time. > I still have my copy and still refer to it from time to time. The > fundamentals never change. >> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 9:16 AM K8TE wrote: >> >> Phil, >> >> Yes, I'm catching up on e-mail. >> >> Your description of physics cirriculum brought me back to my high school >> physics which was called "PSSC" based on the work done at MIT and described >> in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Science_Study_Committee. I >> had >> been licensed a couple of years by then (1962) and found PSSC physics fit >> me >> to a tee! >> >> My bachelor studies in vocational education decades later showed how the >> approached used by the PSSC was smart and useful, something being >> "re-discovered" today by educators who often are behind their peers. The >> Wikipedia article above includes a mention of Heathkit's products that were >> modified to fit the PSSC model. >> >> In between high school and my vocational education experience I taught >> electronics for Eastern New Mexico University while stationed at Canon >> AFB. >> I used the text by Robert Schraeder "Electronic Communication" which one >> can >> find used today. I lent mine to my Air Force boss and bought another >> recently. Schraeder, like so few, has the ability to write clearly about >> difficult concepts that makes them seem simple. That text made my teaching >> much easier! "The Art of Electronics" will certainly fit into my reading >> schedule, in which I am also way behind. >> >> 73, Bill, K8TE >> >> "My undergraduate degree is Physics and back in the 1960s, my physics >> curriculum included a similar course study. This was all about using lab >> equipment but also making the necessary little electronic gadgets that were >> important to work in a physics research laboratory. When I took my course, >> the book "The Art of Electronics" did not exist and we never had a text >> book >> in our course." >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to dave.w...@gmail.com >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to j...@voodoolab.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Schraeder was the text for my Communications class in tech school in the early 80s. One requirement to pass the course was to earn the FCC General Class Radiotelephone license. I believe nearly everyone in the class did. It also made it pretty easy to upgrade my ham ticket from Novice to Advanced during that time. I still have my copy and still refer to it from time to time. The fundamentals never change. On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 9:16 AM K8TE wrote: > Phil, > > Yes, I'm catching up on e-mail. > > Your description of physics cirriculum brought me back to my high school > physics which was called "PSSC" based on the work done at MIT and described > in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Science_Study_Committee. I > had > been licensed a couple of years by then (1962) and found PSSC physics fit > me > to a tee! > > My bachelor studies in vocational education decades later showed how the > approached used by the PSSC was smart and useful, something being > "re-discovered" today by educators who often are behind their peers. The > Wikipedia article above includes a mention of Heathkit's products that were > modified to fit the PSSC model. > > In between high school and my vocational education experience I taught > electronics for Eastern New Mexico University while stationed at Canon > AFB. > I used the text by Robert Schraeder "Electronic Communication" which one > can > find used today. I lent mine to my Air Force boss and bought another > recently. Schraeder, like so few, has the ability to write clearly about > difficult concepts that makes them seem simple. That text made my teaching > much easier! "The Art of Electronics" will certainly fit into my reading > schedule, in which I am also way behind. > > 73, Bill, K8TE > > "My undergraduate degree is Physics and back in the 1960s, my physics > curriculum included a similar course study. This was all about using lab > equipment but also making the necessary little electronic gadgets that were > important to work in a physics research laboratory. When I took my course, > the book "The Art of Electronics" did not exist and we never had a text > book > in our course." > > > > -- > Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to dave.w...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Phil, Yes, I'm catching up on e-mail. Your description of physics cirriculum brought me back to my high school physics which was called "PSSC" based on the work done at MIT and described in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Science_Study_Committee. I had been licensed a couple of years by then (1962) and found PSSC physics fit me to a tee! My bachelor studies in vocational education decades later showed how the approached used by the PSSC was smart and useful, something being "re-discovered" today by educators who often are behind their peers. The Wikipedia article above includes a mention of Heathkit's products that were modified to fit the PSSC model. In between high school and my vocational education experience I taught electronics for Eastern New Mexico University while stationed at Canon AFB. I used the text by Robert Schraeder "Electronic Communication" which one can find used today. I lent mine to my Air Force boss and bought another recently. Schraeder, like so few, has the ability to write clearly about difficult concepts that makes them seem simple. That text made my teaching much easier! "The Art of Electronics" will certainly fit into my reading schedule, in which I am also way behind. 73, Bill, K8TE "My undergraduate degree is Physics and back in the 1960s, my physics curriculum included a similar course study. This was all about using lab equipment but also making the necessary little electronic gadgets that were important to work in a physics research laboratory. When I took my course, the book "The Art of Electronics" did not exist and we never had a text book in our course." -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Raised hand. Wes N7WS On 4/8/2018 3:45 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: hmmm, well I'm hearing a lot of opinion expressed. First off, how many of you have acctually built ckts for10-GHz+? (show of hands) And of you who did, how many worked the first time as designed without "tinkering"? Snow-flaking is a well known method of "tweaking" the circuit to get it to work optimally. Snow-flaking is an art! If you can make one that works, probably involves a little magic; if you can manufacture hundreds that work reliably, that is a master at science. Of course you might argue the latter is "true magic". Cave man would say all this is magic. If you are an alien who can travel between stars, our stuff is archaic. Probably hams span that range? Got my hard hat and PPE on, fire away! 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Hey, Ed, Piece of cake! (10 Ghz) But I worked up to it slowly. Building gear for the lower microwave bands sure helped with wrapping my head around the problems encountered there. I loved pipe cap filters!! Now I am having a real hard time getting my 160 meter receive antennas to work!! I went from snow flaking to tightening large nuts and bolts! Dave K1WHS On 4/8/2018 10:45 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: hmmm, well I'm hearing a lot of opinion expressed. First off, how many of you have acctually built ckts for10-GHz+? (show of hands) And of you who did, how many worked the first time as designed without "tinkering"? Snow-flaking is a well known method of "tweaking" the circuit to get it to work optimally. Snow-flaking is an art! If you can make one that works, probably involves a little magic; if you can manufacture hundreds that work reliably, that is a master at science. Of course you might argue the latter is "true magic". Cave man would say all this is magic. If you are an alien who can travel between stars, our stuff is archaic. Probably hams span that range? Got my hard hat and PPE on, fire away! 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k1...@metrocast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Searching the PDF circuit diagrams for the Elecraft radios is how you follow a signal from page to page. That, is an important survival technique. 73 Bill AE6JV On 4/8/18 at 1:52 PM, eric.c...@gmail.com (EricJ) wrote: It doesn't seem to be well-known but many pdf documents are searchable. That's the case with this one. I have a bound and severely dog-earred Second Edition, but this pdf is going to make it even more useful. Ctrl-F brings up the search box like it always does. Enter text (not text in illustrations) and it finds it almost instantly. --- Bill Frantz| Re IOT: "How many access control systems does it take www.pwpconsult.com | to change a light bulb?" - Dean Tribble __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke 73 Bill AE6JV On 4/8/18 at 12:23 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote: > In other words, all of the things that can often be ignored at lower > frequencies must be considered > at higher frequencies. That's not "art," it's not "black magic," its pure > science. --- Bill Frantz| "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the 408-356-8506 | intelligence. There's a knob called "brightness", but www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
I have both the first and second editions of the book. The first came out in 1980; the second in 1989. The first edition had 716 pages; the second 1125. 73,Pete - N8TR At 01:42 PM 4/8/2018, donov...@starpower.net wrote: Hi Robie, The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of the price! 73 Frank W3LPL - __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
hmmm, well I'm hearing a lot of opinion expressed. First off, how many of you have acctually built ckts for10-GHz+? (show of hands) And of you who did, how many worked the first time as designed without "tinkering"? Snow-flaking is a well known method of "tweaking" the circuit to get it to work optimally. Snow-flaking is an art! If you can make one that works, probably involves a little magic; if you can manufacture hundreds that work reliably, that is a master at science. Of course you might argue the latter is "true magic". Cave man would say all this is magic. If you are an alien who can travel between stars, our stuff is archaic. Probably hams span that range? Got my hard hat and PPE on, fire away! 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
It doesn't seem to be well-known but many pdf documents are searchable. That's the case with this one. I have a bound and severely dog-earred Second Edition, but this pdf is going to make it even more useful. Ctrl-F brings up the search box like it always does. Enter text (not text in illustrations) and it finds it almost instantly. Eric KE6US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
I don't know why people say stuff like that. Just because some variables become more important at RF than they did at lower frequencies doesn't turn design into art or magic. Dave AB7E On 4/8/2018 11:45 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote: On 2018-04-08 3:42 PM, mike.ab...@gmail.com wrote: It would be a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though. Easier? Perhaps. Depends in part on the frequencies involved. As the frequency goes up it RF design becomes part science and part art, or some might say black magic. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
On 4/8/2018 11:45 AM, Kevin Cozens wrote: As the frequency goes up it RF design becomes part science and part art, or some might say black magic. A better way of thinking about it is that as frequency goes up, stray (parasitic) elements of components become increasingly significant (that is, L and C in a resistor, R and L in a capacitor, R and C in an inductor), wiring (including traces on a single layer circuit board) first become inductors, then antennas, and their capacitance to other circuit elements and their inductive coupling to other wiring becomes significant, and traces above a "ground layer" on a circuit board become transmission lines. And the TIME it takes for signals to move along wires and lines becomes significant. The dielectric properties of circuit board become significant. The spacing between circuit traces becomes significant. In other words, all of the things that can often be ignored at lower frequencies must be considered at higher frequencies. That's not "art," it's not "black magic," its pure science. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
On 2018-04-08 3:42 PM, mike.ab...@gmail.com wrote: It would be a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though. Easier? Perhaps. Depends in part on the frequencies involved. As the frequency goes up it RF design becomes part science and part art, or some might say black magic. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/| "Nerds make the shiny things that https://www.patreon.html/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and | that's why we're powerful" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | #include | --Chris Hardwick __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Thanks for the like for the free 2nd edition. I know many regard math as difficult, but a book I used when teaching at Valparaiso Tech Institute was "Basic Math for Electronics by Nelson M. Cooke. It taught math by using many electronics formulas and therefore was invaluable to help students learn electronics and basic math. I believe the latest is the 7th edition. But I used the first edition. I will have to look for a free download. Dr. Don W4BWS On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Mike Markowski wrote: > Chuck and all, > > It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my style > of learning. I really like math but also need concrete examples. I like > their approach of "here's how we might approach this," leading to > shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very methodical rather than jumping > straight into the best solution without knowing where the model came from. > > In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning anything - > to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and understand > some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other a little > better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to compete with those kids who > skated through university effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade > away! Better late than never. :-) > > 73, > Mike ab3ap > > On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > >> That’s a great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard >> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I learned >> the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a plus. Math with an >> application. >> Seemed like I was always taking the math course after I learned the math >> the semester before in an EE course. >> Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and it was a >> great source of ideas and understanding. >> Chuck >> KE9UW >> >> Sent from my iPhone, cjack >> >> On Apr 7, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Mike Markowski wrote: >>> >>> Many thanks to everyone who responded! I have a clearer understanding >>> now. >>> >>> It reminds me of my own EE student days. I found learning electronics >>> challenging because our texts started with math and the useful properties >>> of this or that circuit kind of fell out as a side effect or mini-miracle. >>> Then I discovered the text 'The Art of Electronics' which approached it >>> from a different angle and things clicked much more naturally for me. >>> >>> I like Skip K6DGW's description of the two approaches to Elecraft as >>> orthogonal. So I think I get it. Thanks, all! >>> >>> 73, >>> Mike ab3ap >>> >> __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w4b...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
On 2018-04-08 01:42 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of the price! Thanks for the information. I have the 3rd edition sitting on a bookshelf. I'll add the second edition to my eReader. For those reading AoF and want additional hands-on work to complement it the companion book is "Learning the Art of Electronics: A Hands-On Lab Course" and is available on Amazon at: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0521177235/ -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/| "Nerds make the shiny things that https://www.patreon.html/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and | that's why we're powerful" Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | #include | --Chris Hardwick __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
They are working on the next edition, the X edition, which is referenced throughout the 3rd edition. It is supposed to be released this year but no date yet. I gather it is supposed to be much more in depth. 73 Tim, KQ8M k...@kq8m.com -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of donov...@starpower.net Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 13:43 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics Hi Robie, The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of the price! 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Robie Elms" To: donov...@starpower.net Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:46:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics Thanks for all the feedback. I’ll look at the pdf 2nd version first! Robie > On Apr 8, 2018, at 11:13, donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > > The current Third Edition is available in used but like new condition for > $56.50 with free shipping at: > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0521809266/ref=tmm_hrd_used_ol > p_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr= > > > The Second Edition is available for free as a pdf at: > > > https://ia801605.us.archive.org/14/items/TheArtOfElectronics-2ndEditio > n/the-art-of-electronics.pdf > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > - Original Message - > > From: "Mike Markowski" > To: "Robie Elms" > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:42:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics > > Robie, > > I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best. > Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!, > and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would > be a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though. > > Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But > if you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio > Frequency Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of > Elec. > > 73, > Mike ab3ap > >> On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote: >> Which edition is the most useful for hams? >> >> Robie AJ4F >> >>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski >>> wrote: >>> >>> Chuck and all, >>> >>> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my >>> style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete >>> examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach >>> this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very >>> methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution >>> without knowing where the model came from. >>> >>> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning >>> anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and >>> understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other >>> a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to compete with >>> those kids who skated through university effortlessly...as >>> retirement is only a decade away! Better late than never. :-) >>> >>> 73, Mike ab3ap >>> >>>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a great >>>> book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard and >>>> Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I >>>> learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a >>>> plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking the >>>> math course after I learned the math the semester before in an EE >>>> course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and >>>> it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck KE9UW > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > donov...@starpower.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.q
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Frank, I’m a bit dated as well, so likely a good fit! Robie > On Apr 8, 2018, at 12:42, donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > Hi Robie, > > The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of > the price! > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > From: "Robie Elms" > To: donov...@starpower.net > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:46:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics > > Thanks for all the feedback. I’ll look at the pdf 2nd version first! > > Robie > > > On Apr 8, 2018, at 11:13, donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > > > > > The current Third Edition is available in used but like new condition for > > $56.50 with free shipping at: > > > > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0521809266/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr= > > > > > > > > The Second Edition is available for free as a pdf at: > > > > > > https://ia801605.us.archive.org/14/items/TheArtOfElectronics-2ndEdition/the-art-of-electronics.pdf > > > > > > > > 73 > > Frank > > W3LPL > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "Mike Markowski" > > To: "Robie Elms" > > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:42:39 PM > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics > > > > Robie, > > > > I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best. > > Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!, > > and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would be > > a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though. > > > > Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But if > > you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio Frequency > > Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of Elec. > > > > 73, > > Mike ab3ap > > > >> On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote: > >> Which edition is the most useful for hams? > >> > >> Robie AJ4F > >> > >>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Chuck and all, > >>> > >>> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my > >>> style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete > >>> examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach > >>> this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very > >>> methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution > >>> without knowing where the model came from. > >>> > >>> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning > >>> anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE > >>> and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the > >>> other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to > >>> compete with those kids who skated through university > >>> effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late > >>> than never. :-) > >>> > >>> 73, Mike ab3ap > >>> > >>>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a > >>>> great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard > >>>> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I > >>>> learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a > >>>> plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking > >>>> the math course after I learned the math the semester before in > >>>> an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the > >>>> job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck > >>>> KE9UW > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to rule...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Hi Robie, The free Second Edition pdf is quite dated (1980), but work every penny of the price! 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Robie Elms" To: donov...@starpower.net Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:46:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics Thanks for all the feedback. I’ll look at the pdf 2nd version first! Robie > On Apr 8, 2018, at 11:13, donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > > The current Third Edition is available in used but like new condition for > $56.50 with free shipping at: > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0521809266/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr= > > > > The Second Edition is available for free as a pdf at: > > > https://ia801605.us.archive.org/14/items/TheArtOfElectronics-2ndEdition/the-art-of-electronics.pdf > > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > - Original Message - > > From: "Mike Markowski" > To: "Robie Elms" > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:42:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics > > Robie, > > I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best. > Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!, > and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would be > a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though. > > Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But if > you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio Frequency > Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of Elec. > > 73, > Mike ab3ap > >> On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote: >> Which edition is the most useful for hams? >> >> Robie AJ4F >> >>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski >>> wrote: >>> >>> Chuck and all, >>> >>> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my >>> style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete >>> examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach >>> this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very >>> methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution >>> without knowing where the model came from. >>> >>> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning >>> anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE >>> and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the >>> other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to >>> compete with those kids who skated through university >>> effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late >>> than never. :-) >>> >>> 73, Mike ab3ap >>> >>>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a >>>> great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard >>>> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I >>>> learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a >>>> plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking >>>> the math course after I learned the math the semester before in >>>> an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the >>>> job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck >>>> KE9UW > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rule...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Thanks for all the feedback. I’ll look at the pdf 2nd version first! Robie > On Apr 8, 2018, at 11:13, donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > > The current Third Edition is available in used but like new condition for > $56.50 with free shipping at: > > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0521809266/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr= > > > > The Second Edition is available for free as a pdf at: > > > https://ia801605.us.archive.org/14/items/TheArtOfElectronics-2ndEdition/the-art-of-electronics.pdf > > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > - Original Message - > > From: "Mike Markowski" > To: "Robie Elms" > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:42:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics > > Robie, > > I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best. > Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!, > and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would be > a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though. > > Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But if > you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio Frequency > Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of Elec. > > 73, > Mike ab3ap > >> On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote: >> Which edition is the most useful for hams? >> >> Robie AJ4F >> >>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski >>> wrote: >>> >>> Chuck and all, >>> >>> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my >>> style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete >>> examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach >>> this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very >>> methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution >>> without knowing where the model came from. >>> >>> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning >>> anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE >>> and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the >>> other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to >>> compete with those kids who skated through university >>> effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late >>> than never. :-) >>> >>> 73, Mike ab3ap >>> >>>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a >>>> great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard >>>> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I >>>> learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a >>>> plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking >>>> the math course after I learned the math the semester before in >>>> an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the >>>> job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck >>>> KE9UW > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rule...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
The current Third Edition is available in used but like new condition for $56.50 with free shipping at: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0521809266/ref=tmm_hrd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr= The Second Edition is available for free as a pdf at: https://ia801605.us.archive.org/14/items/TheArtOfElectronics-2ndEdition/the-art-of-electronics.pdf 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Mike Markowski" To: "Robie Elms" Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:42:39 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics Robie, I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best. Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!, and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would be a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though. Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But if you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio Frequency Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of Elec. 73, Mike ab3ap On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote: > Which edition is the most useful for hams? > > Robie AJ4F > >> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski >> wrote: >> >> Chuck and all, >> >> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my >> style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete >> examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach >> this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very >> methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution >> without knowing where the model came from. >> >> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning >> anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE >> and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the >> other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to >> compete with those kids who skated through university >> effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late >> than never. :-) >> >> 73, Mike ab3ap >> >>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a >>> great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard >>> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I >>> learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a >>> plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking >>> the math course after I learned the math the semester before in >>> an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the >>> job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck >>> KE9UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
I own the second edition and I also own the student manual that goes along with the book. To judge the usefulness of this book, it is good to learn why it exists. As you read in the preface to the first edition, the book grew out of notes from a course at Harvard University on "laboratory electronics". This type of course is similar to other courses at other universities and the important thing to note is that the target student is NOT an E.E. major. In fact, the preface states that the book is designed to be used by students that do not have previous electronics knowledge or experience. But, these were Harvard students so I grant those students' capabilities as better than average. My undergraduate degree is Physics and back in the 1960s, my physics curriculum included a similar course study. This was all about using lab equipment but also making the necessary little electronic gadgets that were important to work in a physics research laboratory. When I took my course, the book "The Art of Electronics" did not exist and we never had a text book in our course. I wanted more though so I also signed up for the EE department's equivalent course which started with FET transistors which was the new thing at the time and quickly went into digital electronics and digital logic circuits. I never learned about building audio or RF circuits in my physics oriented electronics course nor in the EE course. Importance was given to digital and computer circuits (~1967). The book "The Art ..." is similar, its main focus is primarily in using electronics to interface with equipment, digital/analog, digital/digital, and so on with just a sprinkle, in comparison, for RF. 73, phil, K7PEH > On Apr 8, 2018, at 8:45 AM, Frank O'Donnell wrote: > > Hi all, new ham/KX3 owner/list member here. > > When this question came up in another forum, one member advised: "The second > edition has circuit ideas and examples, where the third edition replaced it > with chapter review exercises (more like an academic textbook). I have no > interest in the homework assignments, and feel a lot of value was lost from > this. Yes, there are minor updates like micro-controllers, but there are > better resources for that. If I had to pick only one, I'd keep my 2nd Ed." > > Based on that, I recently bought a (used) copy of the second edition. > > Frank K6FOD > > > On 4/8/18 8:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote: >> Which edition is the most useful for hams? >> >> Robie AJ4F >> >>> On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski wrote: >>> >>> Chuck and all, >>> >>> It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my style of >>> learning. I really like math but also need concrete examples. I like >>> their approach of "here's how we might approach this," leading to >>> shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very methodical rather than jumping >>> straight into the best solution without knowing where the model came from. >>> >>> In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning anything - to >>> be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and understand some. >>> As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other a little better. And >>> so on. At long last, I'm ready to compete with those kids who skated >>> through university effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! >>> Better late than never. :-) >>> >>> 73, >>> Mike ab3ap >>> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking the math course after I learned the math the semester before in an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck KE9UW Sent from my iPhone, cjack > On Apr 7, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Mike Markowski wrote: > > Many thanks to everyone who responded! I have a clearer understanding > now. > > It reminds me of my own EE student days. I found learning electronics > challenging because our texts started with math and the useful properties > of this or that circuit kind of fell out as a side effect or > mini-miracle. Then I discovered the text 'The Art of Electronics' which > approached it from a different angle and things clicked much more > naturally for me. > > I like Skip K6DGW's description of the two approaches to Elecraft as > orthogonal. So I think I get it. Thanks, all! > > 73, > Mike ab3ap >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailt
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Hi all, new ham/KX3 owner/list member here. When this question came up in another forum, one member advised: "The second edition has circuit ideas and examples, where the third edition replaced it with chapter review exercises (more like an academic textbook). I have no interest in the homework assignments, and feel a lot of value was lost from this. Yes, there are minor updates like micro-controllers, but there are better resources for that. If I had to pick only one, I'd keep my 2nd Ed." Based on that, I recently bought a (used) copy of the second edition. Frank K6FOD On 4/8/18 8:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote: Which edition is the most useful for hams? Robie AJ4F On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski wrote: Chuck and all, It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution without knowing where the model came from. In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to compete with those kids who skated through university effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late than never. :-) 73, Mike ab3ap On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking the math course after I learned the math the semester before in an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck KE9UW Sent from my iPhone, cjack On Apr 7, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Mike Markowski wrote: Many thanks to everyone who responded! I have a clearer understanding now. It reminds me of my own EE student days. I found learning electronics challenging because our texts started with math and the useful properties of this or that circuit kind of fell out as a side effect or mini-miracle. Then I discovered the text 'The Art of Electronics' which approached it from a different angle and things clicked much more naturally for me. I like Skip K6DGW's description of the two approaches to Elecraft as orthogonal. So I think I get it. Thanks, all! 73, Mike ab3ap __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rule...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to vf...@inkbox.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Robie, I don't have all editions to compare, but think newest is usually best. Maybe others know better? The book is an intro, though very detailed!, and doesn't cover much in the way of RF to my recollection. It would be a foundation that makes RF design easy to follow, though. Others might have better recommendations for ham-specific books. But if you leaf through something like ARRL's "Introduction to Radio Frequency Design," you'll probably get more from it after a book like Art of Elec. 73, Mike ab3ap On 04/08/2018 11:28 AM, Robie Elms wrote: Which edition is the most useful for hams? Robie AJ4F On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski wrote: Chuck and all, It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution without knowing where the model came from. In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to compete with those kids who skated through university effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late than never. :-) 73, Mike ab3ap On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking the math course after I learned the math the semester before in an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck KE9UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Which edition is the most useful for hams? Robie AJ4F > On Apr 8, 2018, at 10:14, Mike Markowski wrote: > > Chuck and all, > > It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my style of > learning. I really like math but also need concrete examples. I like their > approach of "here's how we might approach this," leading to shortcomings, to > how to improve, etc. Very methodical rather than jumping straight into the > best solution without knowing where the model came from. > > In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning anything - to > be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and understand some. As > more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other a little better. And so on. > At long last, I'm ready to compete with those kids who skated through > university effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late > than never. :-) > > 73, > Mike ab3ap > >> On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: >> That’s a great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard >> and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I learned the >> math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a plus. Math with an >> application. >> Seemed like I was always taking the math course after I learned the math the >> semester before in an EE course. >> Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and it was a great >> source of ideas and understanding. >> Chuck >> KE9UW >> Sent from my iPhone, cjack >>> On Apr 7, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Mike Markowski wrote: >>> >>> Many thanks to everyone who responded! I have a clearer understanding now. >>> >>> It reminds me of my own EE student days. I found learning electronics >>> challenging because our texts started with math and the useful properties >>> of this or that circuit kind of fell out as a side effect or mini-miracle. >>> Then I discovered the text 'The Art of Electronics' which approached it >>> from a different angle and things clicked much more naturally for me. >>> >>> I like Skip K6DGW's description of the two approaches to Elecraft as >>> orthogonal. So I think I get it. Thanks, all! >>> >>> 73, >>> Mike ab3ap > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rule...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Art of Electronics
Chuck and all, It really is a great book, the best I've found on the topic for my style of learning. I really like math but also need concrete examples. I like their approach of "here's how we might approach this," leading to shortcomings, to how to improve, etc. Very methodical rather than jumping straight into the best solution without knowing where the model came from. In general, I find electronics learning - or really, learning anything - to be iterative. I'd take the math class, then the EE and understand some. As more math or EE clicked I'd understand the other a little better. And so on. At long last, I'm ready to compete with those kids who skated through university effortlessly...as retirement is only a decade away! Better late than never. :-) 73, Mike ab3ap On 04/07/2018 07:17 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: That’s a great book, “The Art of Electronics”. Horowitz and Hill, Harvard and Rowland institute for Science. Interesting about the math. I learned the math, though, in EE courses and found that to be a plus. Math with an application. Seemed like I was always taking the math course after I learned the math the semester before in an EE course. Anyway, I bought the book when I was already on the job and it was a great source of ideas and understanding. Chuck KE9UW Sent from my iPhone, cjack On Apr 7, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Mike Markowski wrote: Many thanks to everyone who responded! I have a clearer understanding now. It reminds me of my own EE student days. I found learning electronics challenging because our texts started with math and the useful properties of this or that circuit kind of fell out as a side effect or mini-miracle. Then I discovered the text 'The Art of Electronics' which approached it from a different angle and things clicked much more naturally for me. I like Skip K6DGW's description of the two approaches to Elecraft as orthogonal. So I think I get it. Thanks, all! 73, Mike ab3ap __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
