Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Tom: Most certainly you CAN use the XFIL and DSP in tandem!!! Works nicely. 73, Tom HammondN0SS At 05:09 PM 3/29/2007, you wrote: That is actually what I meant. I am very happy with the crystal filters. I want the option of using them OR the DSP. I already know I like the crystal filters. But I expect to enjoy the DSP as well. Just want options. 73, Tom KG3V ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Thanks for all the comments. I ordered a KDSP2 (and received notice that it has shipped) and expect to have it in my K2 in time for my birthday next weekend :-) The discussion also seems to have pushed me over the edge on finally investigating small loop antennas. The prospect of putting any sort of rotating antenna outside is still difficult with my shack arrangement (well, controlling an outside antenna from the inside, that is), but I can see myself doing some experiments out at the feed through... I'll report back. 73 de chris K6DBG P.S. Thanks for the reminder of using a wide Xfil and the filter between my ears. It definitely helps. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris... The Elecraft DSP in my K2, here in Arizona, was the difference between hearing KH2/JR4GPA and not hearing him both yesterday morning and this morning on 40M. I have it set for Very aggressive. Distorts the signal a bit but makes it possible to copy who he was answering. --Bob W1XT, Surprise, AZ K2 1434, 5812 For example, this morning I was trying to get KH2/JR4GPA. Copying his sign was very tough, but I finally got it and confirmed it. I called a couple of times but realized that I wouldn't recognize my call even if he returned it! Just on the egde of ESP. So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
I had the DSP in the K2. I wasn't impressed. I found DSP provided some nice narrow bandpass filters but the NR features just left me cold. Signals sounded watery, or, if you changed the settings, NR didn't do much. I suggest you give it a try. You might find it is the cat's meow, or you may find it isn't worth the effort. If that's the case, sell it and recoop your money. - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - -Original Message- From: Chris Kantarjiev So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. Thanks! 73 de chris K6DBG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris: As you can see from other posts, opinions about the DSP module vary. I have it and am very happy with it. I find the DSP narrow-band filtering to be superior to an outboard QF-1 analog filter, and very effective in enhancing the K2's crystal IF filtering. Set to the most aggressive position, the DSP denoiser distorts the signal quite noticeably, but more importantly, it enables me to copy signals that I could not copy otherwise. (The distortion is not much of a problem on CW, but I do not know how much it disrupts voice signals.) There is one claim that I thought was an exaggeration, until I heard for myself. With the denoiser on and set very aggressive, the audio output in the absence of a signal is so quiet that you'll think that the radio is off. This in no exaggeration. On a quiet band with the denoiser on, I find myself occasionally toggling it off just to verify that the radio is working OK. I most highly recommend the DSP module. On the other hand, I have never found the noise blanker to be effective against the kind of noise present in my setting. Again, the experience of different users varies according to their circumstances. 73, Steve Kercel AA4AK At 10:24 AM 3/29/2007, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: Does this combination make sense? I operate 100% CW. These days, I seem to be chasing a lot of very weak signals with questionable readability. My vertical isn't the quietest of antennas (they never are) and my neighborhood has a fair amount of QRM on 40m during real people hours. For example, this morning I was trying to get KH2/JR4GPA. Copying his sign was very tough, but I finally got it and confirmed it. I called a couple of times but realized that I wouldn't recognize my call even if he returned it! Just on the egde of ESP. So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. Thanks! 73 de chris K6DBG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris Kantarjiev wrote: Does this combination make sense? I operate 100% CW. These days, I seem to be chasing a lot of very weak signals with questionable readability. My vertical isn't the quietest of antennas (they never are) and my neighborhood has a fair amount of QRM on 40m during real people hours. So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. You will get some different answers on this! DSP or an analog AF can be used to reduce the bandwidth, which increases the s/n ratio. This can help with weak signals. On the other hand, a very narrow bandwidth causes the phenomenon that the 'pitch' of the noise is the same as that of the signal, so your built-in brain filter won't be able to pick it out. Some guys say they do better with wider bandwidths on very weak signals for this reason. For me, sometimes it's better one way, sometimes the other. As far as DSP noise reduction, it seems to me that it makes copy of signals more comfortable in the presence of noise, but I don't think it helps when the signal is super weak -- that is, there isn't a case when I can say that NR made it possible to copy a signal that I couldn't have copied without it. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Interesting discussion as I am just getting ready to build the DSP unit. Can you still use the plain audio CW filters once you install the DSP? This DSP is extremely flexible and I can't image that each person couldn't get some settings that will be useful to them, although it may take some time. 73, TOm KG3V Quoting Stephen W. Kercel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Chris: As you can see from other posts, opinions about the DSP module vary. I have it and am very happy with it. I find the DSP narrow-band filtering to be superior to an outboard QF-1 analog filter, and very effective in enhancing the K2's crystal IF filtering. Set to the most aggressive position, the DSP denoiser distorts the signal quite noticeably, but more importantly, it enables me to copy signals that I could not copy otherwise. (The distortion is not much of a problem on CW, but I do not know how much it disrupts voice signals.) There is one claim that I thought was an exaggeration, until I heard for myself. With the denoiser on and set very aggressive, the audio output in the absence of a signal is so quiet that you'll think that the radio is off. This in no exaggeration. On a quiet band with the denoiser on, I find myself occasionally toggling it off just to verify that the radio is working OK. I most highly recommend the DSP module. On the other hand, I have never found the noise blanker to be effective against the kind of noise present in my setting. Again, the experience of different users varies according to their circumstances. 73, Steve Kercel AA4AK At 10:24 AM 3/29/2007, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: Does this combination make sense? I operate 100% CW. These days, I seem to be chasing a lot of very weak signals with questionable readability. My vertical isn't the quietest of antennas (they never are) and my neighborhood has a fair amount of QRM on 40m during real people hours. For example, this morning I was trying to get KH2/JR4GPA. Copying his sign was very tough, but I finally got it and confirmed it. I called a couple of times but realized that I wouldn't recognize my call even if he returned it! Just on the egde of ESP. So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. Thanks! 73 de chris K6DBG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris, I have found the KDSP2 to be excellent for reduction of atmospheric and many other noises, especially when operating CW, and I generally operate my K2 with the DSP NR turned on. The KNB2 does a very good job on some types of impulse noise but is not effective on others. If you operate in a noisy environment, I recommend having both available. 73 - Bob, N7XY On Mar 29, 2007, at 7:24 AM, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: Does this combination make sense? I operate 100% CW. These days, I seem to be chasing a lot of very weak signals with questionable readability. My vertical isn't the quietest of antennas (they never are) and my neighborhood has a fair amount of QRM on 40m during real people hours. For example, this morning I was trying to get KH2/JR4GPA. Copying his sign was very tough, but I finally got it and confirmed it. I called a couple of times but realized that I wouldn't recognize my call even if he returned it! Just on the egde of ESP. So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. Thanks! 73 de chris K6DBG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. You will get some different answers on this! That's why I asked :-) My narrowest crystal filter is 0.20 and is plenty narrow for isolating signals from noise. As you say, the pitch sometimes gets a little confused, and the signal reduced, so I don't find it useful for really weak signals. I'm not really interested in reducing the bandwidth further. In this particular case, the noise level was low enough that I had no activity on my S meter ... from the station or the noise :-) What I'm trying to discern is if the DSP will help cut some of the broad spectrum QRN/QRM that I hear around here. (I'm also happy to hear from KAF2 fans, especially since it's cheaper!) I admit that I forgot to try a wider filter (I was using 0.40) to see if I could hear Guam more clearly. I know that trick and sometimes it works for me. Later, when people woke up, I was getting S3 QRM and there was no hope of hearing really weak signals. That's an entirely different thing! 73, chris ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris There are two actions I would recommend. First is a rotatable receiving loop to help reduce local noise. The best way to reduce noise is to prevent it from entering the receiver. It can be tuned or untuned. If tuned, it will be more sensitive, but limited to one band. If untuned, it will be a bit less sensitive, but you could also use it on 80m. Second is adding the KDSP2. It will lower your apparent noise by two means. The first is the narrower audio filtering which lets less noise pass. The second is the DSP noise reduction algorithm which will improve your signal to noise ratio in recovered audio. Use both of these together, and you should see a distinct improvement in what you can hear. Good luck and 73 Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: Chris Kantarjiev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: [Elecraft] DSP and CW? Does this combination make sense? I operate 100% CW. These days, I seem to be chasing a lot of very weak signals with questionable readability. My vertical isn't the quietest of antennas (they never are) and my neighborhood has a fair amount of QRM on 40m during real people hours. For example, this morning I was trying to get KH2/JR4GPA. Copying his sign was very tough, but I finally got it and confirmed it. I called a couple of times but realized that I wouldn't recognize my call even if he returned it! Just on the egde of ESP. So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. Thanks! 73 de chris K6DBG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris, For reasons of providing a sharper audio filter, I believe it is a toss-up between the KAF2 and the KDSP2 - both will do the job. The DSP offers more flexibility in the filter width and can create a really steep sided filter. As far as noise reduction, the KDSP2 wins hands down, the KAF2 has none, and yes, the KNB2 does not work on atmospheric noise - it does a good job on impulse type noise sources, like gasoline engine ignition noise. That said, my ears tire of hearing the DSP after long periods. Maybe it is just too clean, or perhaps my ears like the more rounded filter shapes, but that is my personal subjective assessment. I have an external DSP in my AMQRP micro908 that I can press into service when the occasion arises, and I have my K2 fitted with the KAF2. In fact, I rarely use the KAF2 because the K2 IF filters are good enough most of the time. As it has been mentioned, perhaps the best solution to your noise situation is to use a separate receiving antenna such as a rotating loop (assuming something like a beverage is not feasible). 73, Don W3FPR Chris Kantarjiev wrote: Does this combination make sense? I operate 100% CW. These days, I seem to be chasing a lot of very weak signals with questionable readability. My vertical isn't the quietest of antennas (they never are) and my neighborhood has a fair amount of QRM on 40m during real people hours. For example, this morning I was trying to get KH2/JR4GPA. Copying his sign was very tough, but I finally got it and confirmed it. I called a couple of times but realized that I wouldn't recognize my call even if he returned it! Just on the egde of ESP. So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. Thanks! 73 de chris K6DBG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Fellas: Stephen W. Kercel wrote: There is one claim that I thought was an exaggeration, until I heard for myself. With the denoiser on and set very aggressive, the audio output in the absence of a signal is so quiet that you'll think that the radio is off. This in no exaggeration. On a quiet band with the denoiser on, I find myself occasionally toggling it off just to verify that the radio is working OK. Like Steve, I've found the Noise Reduction to make received signals 'watery', BUT when I use it (and I ONLY use it mobile) it is absolutely WONDERFUL for nearly making it as though there was a CW SQUELCH feature in the K2. Virtually all(!) background noises disappear and I only hear something when there's an in-band signal present. Sometimes I leave the DSP NR enables throughout the QSO, other times I don't. It depends upon what I'm listening for at the time, but the NR DOES WORK. On the other hand, I have never found the noise blanker to be effective against the kind of noise present in my setting. Again, the experience of different users varies according to their circumstances. I've had GREAT experiences with the NB, and then some less than great as well. MOST(!) times it'll do a very fine job of blanking spikey interference, but then there are times when it's as though I never turned it on. Would I buy either again...yup... BOTH! Though, if you don't need the NR feature of the DSP, the KAF2 is a nice, lower cost alternative for CW reception. I don't operate fone, so I can't comment upon how the DSP works on SSB. 73, Tom HammondN0SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Tom: Can you still use the plain audio CW filters once you install the DSP? This DSP is extremely flexible and I can't image that each person couldn't get some settings that will be useful to them, although it may take some time. You can have only one (1) audio filter installed at a time, KAF2 or KDSP2, but not both, sorry. 73, Tom N0SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
One additional thought. It is not unusual to use an external AF filter with headphones. I have a homebrew passive filter that I put in line occasionally. It is not needed so much for additional selectivity as to reduce higher pitched white noise that comes through along with signal. You can buy these filters or just cobble your own out of junkbox parts. 73, Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: Tom Hammond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom Zeltwanger [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stephen W. Kercel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW? Tom: Can you still use the plain audio CW filters once you install the DSP? This DSP is extremely flexible and I can't image that each person couldn't get some settings that will be useful to them, although it may take some time. You can have only one (1) audio filter installed at a time, KAF2 or KDSP2, but not both, sorry. 73, Tom N0SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris, I'm a 99.9% CW op, too, and find myself working weak signal stuff mostly, and mostly on 40M. I find the KDSP2 an invaluable tool. I also have the KNB2, and it's effective on some noise, but I rarely use it. You have to hear the difference between a very weak signal on and off the DSP. It's amazing. Without it, you can just barely tell there's someone in the noise. With the DSP activated, that signal often becomes completely copyable. Sounds like an exaggeration but it's not. I'm sure there's probably a K2/DSP combo nearer to you than I (I'm in Santa Cruz) but if you ever want to hear the difference, feel free to stop by and we can pull some weak signals out so you can hear the difference. True, there is a processed sound to the signals when you get aggressive with the DSP, but I'll take that any day over not being able to copy the signal at all. And I find that the stock crystal filters + the DSP make a great combination. 73, Jeff N6GQ On 3/29/07, Chris Kantarjiev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does this combination make sense? I operate 100% CW. These days, I seem to be chasing a lot of very weak signals with questionable readability. My vertical isn't the quietest of antennas (they never are) and my neighborhood has a fair amount of QRM on 40m during real people hours. For example, this morning I was trying to get KH2/JR4GPA. Copying his sign was very tough, but I finally got it and confirmed it. I called a couple of times but realized that I wouldn't recognize my call even if he returned it! Just on the egde of ESP. So ... would AF or DSP help me in this situation? The noise blanker doesn't seem to do much good for the noise sources my neighbors provide. Thanks! 73 de chris K6DBG ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Tom: If you if you can toggle off all DSP processing entirely, the answer is yes. What you cannot do is install both analog and digital audio filtering in the same K2. 73, Steve Kercel AA4AK At 11:21 AM 3/29/2007, Tom Zeltwanger wrote: Interesting discussion as I am just getting ready to build the DSP unit. Can you still use the plain audio CW filters once you install the DSP? This DSP is extremely flexible and I can't image that each person couldn't get some settings that will be useful to them, although it may take some time. 73, TOm KG3V ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Jeff, do you hear that difference only in wide IF positions or does the DSP provide the same benefit when you stop down the IF to 400 Hz? And does the effectiveness depend on the type of noise? - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - -Original Message- You have to hear the difference between a very weak signal on and off the DSP. It's amazing. Without it, you can just barely tell there's someone in the noise. With the DSP activated, that signal often becomes completely copyable. Sounds like an exaggeration but it's not. Jeff N6GQ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
As it has been mentioned, perhaps the best solution to your noise situation is to use a separate receiving antenna such as a rotating loop (assuming something like a beverage is not feasible). Yes, but. I have a vertical because I am antenna limited on my sub-1/8 acre suburban Palo Alto lot :-) No room for a beverage, and I think I'd be lynched if I tried to put up a rotatable loop! Everything's a compromise... 73, chris ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Keith, the improvement is there across the board, and I find that depending on conditions, sometimes wider is good, sometimes not. I find myself often switching between crystal and DSP filter settings to find the sweet spot, and often there really is a very definate sweet spot for a given signal and noise complement. Jeff N6GQ On 3/29/07, Darwin, Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff, do you hear that difference only in wide IF positions or does the DSP provide the same benefit when you stop down the IF to 400 Hz? And does the effectiveness depend on the type of noise? - Keith N1AS - - K2 5411.ssb.100 - -Original Message- You have to hear the difference between a very weak signal on and off the DSP. It's amazing. Without it, you can just barely tell there's someone in the noise. With the DSP activated, that signal often becomes completely copyable. Sounds like an exaggeration but it's not. Jeff N6GQ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris For 40m, a rotatable loop could be as simple as a diamond shape with maybe 3 ft sides. All loops are not made out of rigid coax in a 10 ft diameter circle. Also, multi-turn looops allow for a smaller size while still giving good performance. A 3 ft loop wouldn't be very large, and ,standing vertically, might still be below the sight line of a fence between you and your neighbors. Loops don't have to be high in the air to work. There is a ton of material on receiving loops on the web. Look around a bit and find one that seems to fit your situation. It's a ridiculously cheap experiment. Give it a try and let us know how it works for you. Good luck and 73 Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: Chris Kantarjiev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW? As it has been mentioned, perhaps the best solution to your noise situation is to use a separate receiving antenna such as a rotating loop (assuming something like a beverage is not feasible). Yes, but. I have a vertical because I am antenna limited on my sub-1/8 acre suburban Palo Alto lot :-) No room for a beverage, and I think I'd be lynched if I tried to put up a rotatable loop! Everything's a compromise... 73, chris ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
Chris: For receive-only, even an indoor rotatable loop can work wonders. 73, Steve AA4AK At 01:54 PM 3/29/2007, Chris Kantarjiev wrote: As it has been mentioned, perhaps the best solution to your noise situation is to use a separate receiving antenna such as a rotating loop (assuming something like a beverage is not feasible). Yes, but. I have a vertical because I am antenna limited on my sub-1/8 acre suburban Palo Alto lot :-) No room for a beverage, and I think I'd be lynched if I tried to put up a rotatable loop! Everything's a compromise... 73, chris ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
I operate mostly digital mode and use MixW to help decode contest CW QSOs. Before I acquired the DSP2, I could adequately decode by machine only strong perfectly sent CW signals such as W1AW code practice transmissions using either my K2/100 or IC-735. After installation of the DSP2 NR, I noticed a great reduction in background hash improving the CW S/S+N ratio. The DSP2 made it possible for me to machine decode most contest CW QSOs. The DSP2 NR does alter the CW tone quality to a certain extent, but makes listening easier due to the reduction in background noise. Less aggressive settings improves tone quality, but also reduces background noise reduction. I do not like the DSP2 NR for SSB because of the watery quality it gives to voice. Reducing NR aggressiveness improves voice quality, but at the expense of background noise reduction. Very weak CW DX signals cannot be decoded by my machine, even with the NR on, but such signals are often clear enough to be decoded by ear with the NR set on. The NR does not help me much at very narrow audio filter settings, but seem to work well with wider settings. The audio filters of the DSP2 are excellant and do not slightly shift frequency between TX and RX like the K2 crystal filters. The slight frequency shift using XFil is only an issue for me when machine decoding. I usually operate CW with the AGC set off and the NR on controlling volume using RF gain. Turning the AGC off is very important for weak signal machine CW decoding. It appears to me that machine decoding of machine generated CW is improved when the background noise between dits and dahs has been well supressed with enough audio tone being present to activate the CW decoder. Hand sent code can be hard to decode by machine as it has less than perfect timing of dits, dahs, and spaces. The computer is no replacement for the trained human ear when it comes to copying CW. While weak hand sent DX CW may not be very copiable by machine, the DSP2 NR should help one manually copy weak hard to copy signals. I think that the DSP2 is a great asset but one should not expect weak signal miracles such as being able to hear and copy DX transmissions that are imperceptable with the NR off. The K2 DSP2 is the only DSP unit that I have used so I cannot compare it to other rigs and units. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:24 AM Subject: [Elecraft] DSP and CW? Does this combination make sense? I operate 100% CW. These days, I seem to be chasing a lot of very weak signals with questionable readability. My vertical isn't the quietest of antennas (they never are) and my neighborhood has a fair amount of QRM on 40m during real people hours. ** Snip ** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
That is actually what I meant. I am very happy with the crystal filters. I want the option of using them OR the DSP. I already know I like the crystal filters. But I expect to enjoy the DSP as well. Just want options. 73, Tom KG3V Quoting Stephen W. Kercel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tom: If you if you can toggle off all DSP processing entirely, the answer is yes. What you cannot do is install both analog and digital audio filtering in the same K2. 73, Steve Kercel AA4AK At 11:21 AM 3/29/2007, Tom Zeltwanger wrote: Interesting discussion as I am just getting ready to build the DSP unit. Can you still use the plain audio CW filters once you install the DSP? This DSP is extremely flexible and I can't image that each person couldn't get some settings that will be useful to them, although it may take some time. 73, TOm KG3V ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW?
suburban Palo Alto lot :-) No room for a beverage, and I think I'd be lynched if I tried to put up a rotatable loop! Hi Chris, You can make a really neat and small rx loop out of copper pipe. I use one for VLF [currently listening to the 600m tests]. Mine is made out of `1/2 pipe, and is an octagon ... very easy to make with the 45 deg fittings. It is broken at the top so it isn't a continuous piece, and has a T-fitting at the bottom. I pulled a length of 8-pr in-premises telephone cable through it, and then tied the ends of the wires together to make a 16-turn loop. I use a variable cap to tune it. For 600m, I needed all three sections of a tuning cap out of an ancient TRF radio, but for 160, a single 365pf variable works. The noise null is really [really] sharp, and as long as that isn't where the station is too, the desired signal just pops up out of the noise for me. Mine is about 5' across, however I'm not sure it really matters a lot unless it gets really small. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] DSP and CW
Hello Ian! I am trying to get back into CW and the filters are really odd. If I bypass the DSP, everything works as I would expect. I can zero beat using the spot button and the filters are fine. If I have the DSP in, I cannot get the CW note down to the spot frequency and if I alter from FL1, I lose the signal. Any ideas guys? I am assuming it is a DSP problem as it is ok with the DSP bypassed. The DSP only inserts audio filtering in the path between the receiver detector and the audio amplifier. Your description causes me to suspect that the DSP filter settings are not matched to your desired sidetone/XFIL offset. Try setting the KDSP2 to its widest audio filter setting for CW, and be sure the denoiser is set to OFF. This should cause the DSP to have very little effect on the receive path. If this works, you can then set the various DSP filters to your liking. This filter setting is the factory default CF1. Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
