Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> What would be slick is to see the I/O board with a PCM2902 on 
> it as well.  Most operating systems have drivers for this IC 
> and it just shows up as a sound card. 

PCM2902 is not exactly the best chip for this application.  W7AY 
has documented some issues in some operating systems and certain 
sample rates.  I'd be looking at some of the other USB Audio class 
devices.

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 


> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brett Howard
> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 4:28 PM
> To: wayne burdick
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> 
> 
> What would be slick is to see the I/O board with a PCM2902 on 
> it as well.  Most operating systems have drivers for this IC 
> and it just shows up as a sound card.  So if a 2902 and a 
> FTDIChip were plopped down and tied to a hub you could have 
> the radio when plugged in show up on most computers (windows, 
> linux and mac at least) as an RS232 port and a sound card.  
> Then just point your digital software at the newly installed 
> sound card and all of the line level audio connections are 
> made for you.
> 
> ~Brett
> 
> On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 11:19 -0700, wayne burdick wrote:
> > Dan Copeland wrote:
> > 
> > > can't understand why the K3 didn't
> > > come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.
> > 
> > The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one 
> that has USB
> > rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> > 
> > The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> > using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to 
> use USB can 
> > use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no 
> difference in I/O 
> > performance between the two methods.
> > 
> > 73,
> > Wayne
> > N6KR
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > 
> > http://www.elecraft.com
> > 
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> > 
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Bob Cunnings]

Tell us more about this filter!

Bob NW8L

On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Brett Howard wrote:
> I kinda felt that the K3 had a raspy and brash sound until recently when
> I installed a filter that Elecraft has been testing.  This filter helped
> my K3 sound a lot more like my K1 and for that I'm quite happy.  You
> guys will also be happy if Elecraft kicks the board out as it allows you
> to melt some solder inside.
>
> ~Brett
>
> On Sun, 2009-04-05 at 14:20 +0100, Dave G4AON wrote:
>> There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where "RFEXPERT" is
>> comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3.
>>
>> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775
>>
>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>> K3/100 #80
>>
>> __
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>>
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Mike Harris]

Bring it on!

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

- Original Message - 
From: "Brett Howard" 
To: "Dave G4AON" 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600


|I kinda felt that the K3 had a raspy and brash sound until recently when
| I installed a filter that Elecraft has been testing.  This filter helped
| my K3 sound a lot more like my K1 and for that I'm quite happy.  You
| guys will also be happy if Elecraft kicks the board out as it allows you
| to melt some solder inside.
|
| ~Brett

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Brett Howard]

You can do a lot more than 38400 over RS232 as well so even if the K3
goes to USB you're probably not going to see more than 38400 being piped
over.  But yes audio could be added via another USB endpoint.

On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 15:31 -0400, Steve Ellington wrote:
> Physical properties aside, USB's advantage is speed. We are running the K3's 
> serial port at 38kb while USB can run 400,000kbJust a tad faster and 
> that allows audio and video transfer. True, USB jacks are flimbsey little 
> things, if it were mounted on an option board like the current RS232 is, it 
> could be replaced without a lot of hassle. Sooner or later, ham rigs will 
> either be the only thing around with RS232 or they will change over to USB 
> like the rest of the world.
> Steve Ellington
> n...@carolina.rr.com
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Paul Christensen" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> 
> 
> >>> can't understand why the K3 didn't
> >>> come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.
> >
> > I can't speak on behalf of Elecraft but for the majority of us, it's a
> > simple matter to convert from serial to USB and more difficult to convert 
> > in
> > the opposite direction.
> >
> > USB ports are not nearly as mechanically secure as the DB-9 connector.  An
> > accidental strike of the USB plug in the lateral direction can easily 
> > cause
> > damage the mating USB socket inside the rig (like a K3 used portable). 
> > I've
> > broken a couple USB ports on my laptop PCs as a result of inadvertent
> > strikes.
> >
> > Myself, I would like to see the beginnings of an optical S/PDIF standard
> > that incorporates audio + data/rig control.
> >
> > Paul, W9AC
> >
> > __
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> >
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Brett Howard]

What would be slick is to see the I/O board with a PCM2902 on it as
well.  Most operating systems have drivers for this IC and it just shows
up as a sound card.  So if a 2902 and a FTDIChip were plopped down and
tied to a hub you could have the radio when plugged in show up on most
computers (windows, linux and mac at least) as an RS232 port and a sound
card.  Then just point your digital software at the newly installed
sound card and all of the line level audio connections are made for you.

~Brett

On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 11:19 -0700, wayne burdick wrote:
> Dan Copeland wrote:
> 
> > can't understand why the K3 didn't
> > come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.
> 
> The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB 
> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> 
> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still 
> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can 
> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O 
> performance between the two methods.
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> http://www.elecraft.com
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Brett Howard]

I kinda felt that the K3 had a raspy and brash sound until recently when
I installed a filter that Elecraft has been testing.  This filter helped
my K3 sound a lot more like my K1 and for that I'm quite happy.  You
guys will also be happy if Elecraft kicks the board out as it allows you
to melt some solder inside.

~Brett

On Sun, 2009-04-05 at 14:20 +0100, Dave G4AON wrote:
> There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where "RFEXPERT" is
> comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3.
> 
> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775
> 
> 73 Dave, G4AON
> K3/100 #80
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[S Sacco]

Plus there will shortly be a USB 3.0 spec.  I don't know if the connectors
will be the same, or how backward compatible it will be with USB 2.0 (I
assume 100%).

There's a danger of linking your radio too closely to the world of PC's; the
rate of technological change is incredible, and the rate of obsolescence is
commensurate with that.

That is something which I keep very much in mind with radios like the Flex,
and the idea of PC-dominated radios in general - really, you're always
potentially one Windows update away from breaking the rig.  If the company
goes out of business, or does not feel like supporting an X-year old,
non-current version of their product, you are done.  Over and out.

Just my opinion.

73,
Steve
NN4X




On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 5:35 PM, David Woolley (E.L) <
for...@david-woolley.me.uk> wrote:

> Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> >
> > For those who would want USB support for the K3 ... the cost
> > and red tape required for Windows Certification are very
> > significant for a small company.
> >
> >
>
> Also, it is an ongoing cost.  Most vendors nowadays support at most two
> generations of Windows.  I've just reached the point where I've upgraded
> to XP because more and more stuff won't run on '98 and more and more
> hardware doesn't have drivers for it.  In the process it looks like I
> have lost a sound card and a scanner, because they are considered
> obsolete models by their vendors and do not have XP drivers.  (They do
> have Linux drivers, and Linux support is potentially indefinite, as long
> as parallel ports and PCI last.)
>
> Although the sound card is more recent than the SB Pro, even though that
> established an interface standard, it looks like that isn't supported.
> You have to go back to serial ports and Epson 9 pin printers to find
> standards that have survived.
>
> USB devices come into two categories, ones which can be handled by class
> drivers, e.g. memory sticks, and some USB sound devices, and more custom
> ones.  The customs ones will tend to die in one or two generations of
> Windows.  The class ones will survive longer, but USB itself will
> probably be superceded, and, unlike RS232, it is too complex for an
> individual to host it on top of the latest and greatest technology.
>
> Whilst Elecraft remain in business, under the current management, they
> may well be prepared to update drivers, at a price, but if they don't
> USB radios will rapidly become doorstops.
>
>
> --
> David Woolley
> "The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to
> Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"
> List Guidelines 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[David Woolley (E.L)]

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> 
> For those who would want USB support for the K3 ... the cost 
> and red tape required for Windows Certification are very 
> significant for a small company. 
> 
>

Also, it is an ongoing cost.  Most vendors nowadays support at most two 
generations of Windows.  I've just reached the point where I've upgraded 
to XP because more and more stuff won't run on '98 and more and more 
hardware doesn't have drivers for it.  In the process it looks like I 
have lost a sound card and a scanner, because they are considered 
obsolete models by their vendors and do not have XP drivers.  (They do 
have Linux drivers, and Linux support is potentially indefinite, as long 
as parallel ports and PCI last.)

Although the sound card is more recent than the SB Pro, even though that 
established an interface standard, it looks like that isn't supported. 
You have to go back to serial ports and Epson 9 pin printers to find 
standards that have survived.

USB devices come into two categories, ones which can be handled by class 
drivers, e.g. memory sticks, and some USB sound devices, and more custom 
ones.  The customs ones will tend to die in one or two generations of 
Windows.  The class ones will survive longer, but USB itself will 
probably be superceded, and, unlike RS232, it is too complex for an 
individual to host it on top of the latest and greatest technology.

Whilst Elecraft remain in business, under the current management, they 
may well be prepared to update drivers, at a price, but if they don't 
USB radios will rapidly become doorstops.


-- 
David Woolley
"The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to 
Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"
List Guidelines 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Igor Sokolov]

Julius, I did not have Interface II. I have chosen Microkeyer II instead 
because it has got built in sound card and Winkeyer. I use both.
I originally ordered the cable for IC7000 and then built my own cable for 
K3. Anyway please note that it is pretty difficult to make the cable of such 
a quality that Microham supplies. All the schematics for all the cable is 
available from MicroHam. In Microkeyer it is not enough to change 
connectors. You have to set jumpers inside DB37 in the correct way. I 
suspect it should be similar with Interface II. These jumpers basically tell 
the device what radio you are going to connect. Different radios have 
different CAT specs and set of commands.

73, Igor UA9CDC
- Original Message - 
From: "Julius Fazekas n2wn" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600


>
> I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable 
> for
> a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with 
> a
> K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for
> the K3 cable).
>
> Has anyone done this? Any caveats?
>
> Thanks,
> Julius
>
>
> Igor Sokolov-2 wrote:
>>
>> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got
>> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to
>> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer 
>> has
>> winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 
>>> that
>>> is
>>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one
>>> USB
>>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>>> fashion.
>>>
>>> Steve Ellington
>>> n...@carolina.rr.com
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Dave G4AON" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>>
>>>
>>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. 
>>>> The
>>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does 
>>>> the
>>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing
>>>> filters.
>>>>
>>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web 
>>>> site.
>>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>>> =
>>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>>
>>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>>> __
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>>
>>> __
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>>>
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>>
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>
>>
>
>
> -
> Julius Fazekas
> N2WN
>
> Tennessee Contest Group
> http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html
>
> Tennessee QSO Party
> http://www.tnqp.org/

Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Julius Fazekas]

Thanks Joe...

After looking it over more, it seems like the only advantage is it will operate 
from one USB port versus two Serial Ports... Which may be useful with a laptop 
or new destop w/o serial ports.

May not have this long.

73,
Julius

Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party: Sunday, 6 Sept 2009
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2/100 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366


--- On Wed, 6/17/09, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

> From: Joe Subich, W4TV 
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> To: "'Julius Fazekas n2wn'" , elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 1:23 PM
> 
> The cable model number on the "cables" page for each
> interface 
> is a link to the schematic.  
> 
> As far as the USB Interface II and the K3, you can ignore
> the 
> audio functions as the USB II only provides isolation
> transformers 
> and the K3's line out is already isolated.  With the
> K3 and USB II 
> you might as well connect the 3.5mm cables directly between
> the 
> computer and Line In/Line Out. 
> 
> 73, 
> 
>    ... Joe, W4TV 
>   
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> 
> > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net]
> On Behalf Of Julius 
> > Fazekas n2wn
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:24 AM
> > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past
> weekend. It 
> > has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that
> needs to be 
> > done to make this work with a K3 is provide the
> appropriate 
> > connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3
> cable). 
> > 
> > Has anyone done this? Any caveats?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Julius
> > 
> > 
> > Igor Sokolov-2 wrote:
> > > 
> > > That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3
> included. I have got
> > > Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just
> one USB 
> > connection to 
> > > computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK.
> In addition 
> > Microkeyer has 
> > > winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with
> external RX 
> > and TX amps.
> > > 
> > > 73, Igor UA9CDC
> > > 
> > >> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is
> one feature 
> > on the 7600 
> > >> that
> > >> is
> > >> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes
> from the pc 
> > with only one 
> > >> USB
> > >> cable which handles serial commands plus
> audio in/out. The 
> > sound card
> > >> connection is no longer needed. Several users
> are running 
> > MixW in this
> > >> fashion.
> > >>
> > >> Steve Ellington
> > >> n...@carolina.rr.com
> > >> - Original Message -
> > >> From: "Dave G4AON" 
> > >> To: 
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart,
> G3SJX, in June's 
> > RSGB RadCom. 
> > >>> The receiver performance is mediocre,
> only at 50 KHz 
> > signal spacing 
> > >>> does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic
> range. At 3 KHz 
> > spacing it was 
> > >>> noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter
> squeezed 87 dB by 
> > using the 15 
> > >>> KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited
> with the 6 or 3 KHz 
> > >>> roofing filters.
> > >>>
> > >>> The review is currently available to RSGB
> members via the 
> > RSGB web 
> > >>> site. Please don't ask me to send anyone
> a copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> 73 Dave, G4AON
> > >>> =
> > >>> Universal radio lists the radio as
> having
> > >>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order
> intercept point ".
> > >>>
> > >>> Maybe it will soon make the top of
> Sherwood's list.
> > >>>
> > >>> However, I do not see any mention of
> "diversity receive". 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The cable model number on the "cables" page for each interface 
is a link to the schematic.  

As far as the USB Interface II and the K3, you can ignore the 
audio functions as the USB II only provides isolation transformers 
and the K3's line out is already isolated.  With the K3 and USB II 
you might as well connect the 3.5mm cables directly between the 
computer and Line In/Line Out. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
  


> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julius 
> Fazekas n2wn
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:24 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> 
> 
> 
> I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It 
> has a cable for a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be 
> done to make this work with a K3 is provide the appropriate 
> connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for the K3 cable). 
> 
> Has anyone done this? Any caveats?
> 
> Thanks,
> Julius
> 
> 
> Igor Sokolov-2 wrote:
> > 
> > That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got
> > Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB 
> connection to 
> > computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition 
> Microkeyer has 
> > winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX 
> and TX amps.
> > 
> > 73, Igor UA9CDC
> > 
> >> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature 
> on the 7600 
> >> that
> >> is
> >> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc 
> with only one 
> >> USB
> >> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The 
> sound card
> >> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running 
> MixW in this
> >> fashion.
> >>
> >> Steve Ellington
> >> n...@carolina.rr.com
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Dave G4AON" 
> >> To: 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> >>
> >>
> >>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's 
> RSGB RadCom. 
> >>> The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz 
> signal spacing 
> >>> does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz 
> spacing it was 
> >>> noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by 
> using the 15 
> >>> KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz 
> >>> roofing filters.
> >>>
> >>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the 
> RSGB web 
> >>> site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
> >>>
> >>> 73 Dave, G4AON
> >>> =
> >>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
> >>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
> >>>
> >>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
> >>>
> >>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive". 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Jeff Kinzli]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 07:13, Paul Christensen wrote:
>> Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
>> ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say
>> anything about "dynamic range " or something like that.
>> IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
>> NR NB and DSP filter function].
>
> I also own all three ('7700/'7800/K3) and I've been comparing the three rigs
> for the past year.  Not one of them really stands out against the other when
> comparing the NR function in SSB, nor CW modes.  In my experience, the two
> radios with the best NR function are the Kenwood TS-480 (CW) and the Ten Tec
> Omni Six (SSB).
>
> On the TS-480, Kenwood developed a DSP CW peaking filter in the NR2 position
> that actually seems to extract CW out from under the noise.  Engaging that
> function has often made the difference between copy and no-copy.  I cannot
> say the same for any other radio.  Likewise, the Omni Six NR function
> somehow manages to peak the SSB audio passband when engaged and never did I
> hear an audio attenuating effect as I do with the '7700 and '7800 -- even
> under weak signal conditions.  The two Icoms seem particularly vulnerable to
> attenuation as the NR function is increased and I find their NR function to
> be nearly useless unless signal strength is strong.

Paul, I have noticed this same behavior with my K2+DSP, but I haven't
been able to duplicate on my K3 (maybe because the DSP parameters are
not as easily configurable). The ability to pull a signal out of the
noise with the K2+DSP is profound, but I profess I have not used a
TS480 either.

Jeff N6GQ
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[dj7mgq]

> Thanks! I looked on their site and didn't see the link to the wiring
> diagrams. Will look closer this time. Figured I'd try it out, although I'm
> happy with my current interfaces.

Here they are: 

vy 73 de toby

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

Hi Greg,

Thanks! I looked on their site and didn't see the link to the wiring
diagrams. Will look closer this time. Figured I'd try it out, although I'm
happy with my current interfaces.

hope you're doing well!

73,
Julius


Gregory Fischer wrote:
> 
> Hi Julius!
> 
> Best thing to do is to go to the MicroHam website and compare the two
> wiring 
> diagrams for the two cables.  When I modified an Orion cable for the K3 I
> had to 
> change some jumper wires on the inside of the DB37 assembly as well as a
> few other 
> changes.  It's not just the connectors.  
> 
> -
> 73,
> Greg - AB7R
> Whidbey Island WA
> NA-065
> 
> 
> On Wed Jun 17  7:24 , Julius Fazekas n2wn  sent:
> 
>>
>>I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable
for
>>a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with
a
>>K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for
>>the K3 cable). 
>>
>>Has anyone done this? Any caveats?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Julius
>>
>>
>>Igor Sokolov-2 wrote:
>>> 
>>> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got 
>>> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to 
>>> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer
>>> has 
>>> winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.
>>> 
>>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>> 
>>>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600
>>>> that 
>>>> is
>>>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one 
>>>> USB
>>>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>>>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>>>> fashion.
>>>>
>>>> Steve Ellington
>>>> n...@carolina.rr.com
>>>> - Original Message - 
>>>> From: "Dave G4AON" elecr...@astromag.co.uk>
>>>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom.
>>>>> The
>>>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does
>>>>> the
>>>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing 
>>>>> filters.
>>>>>
>>>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web
>>>>> site.
>>>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>>>> =
>>>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>>>> __
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')">Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>> __
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>>>>
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>>> 
>>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Greg - AB7R]

Hi Julius!

Best thing to do is to go to the MicroHam website and compare the two wiring 
diagrams for the two cables.  When I modified an Orion cable for the K3 I had 
to 
change some jumper wires on the inside of the DB37 assembly as well as a few 
other 
changes.  It's not just the connectors.  

-
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065


On Wed Jun 17  7:24 , Julius Fazekas n2wn  sent:

>
>I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for
>a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a
>K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for
>the K3 cable). 
>
>Has anyone done this? Any caveats?
>
>Thanks,
>Julius
>
>
>Igor Sokolov-2 wrote:
>> 
>> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got 
>> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to 
>> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has 
>> winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.
>> 
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>> 
>>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that 
>>> is
>>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one 
>>> USB
>>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>>> fashion.
>>>
>>> Steve Ellington
>>> n...@carolina.rr.com
>>> ----- Original Message - 
>>> From: "Dave G4AON" elecr...@astromag.co.uk>
>>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>>
>>>
>>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
>>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
>>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing 
>>>> filters.
>>>>
>>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
>>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>>> =
>>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>>
>>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>>> __
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net','','','')">Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>
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>> 
>> __
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>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>> 
>> 
>
>
>-
>Julius Fazekas
>N2WN
>
>Tennessee Contest Group
>http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html
>
>Tennessee QSO Party
>http://www.tnqp.org/
>
>Elecraft K2/100 #4455
>Elecraft K3/100 #366
>Elecraft K3#1875
>-- 
>View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-
tp2588586p3093119.html
>Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

I picked up a microham USB Interface II this past weekend. It has a cable for
a FT1000. I would assume all that needs to be done to make this work with a
K3 is provide the appropriate connector adapters (versus spending $65+ for
the K3 cable). 

Has anyone done this? Any caveats?

Thanks,
Julius


Igor Sokolov-2 wrote:
> 
> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got 
> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to 
> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has 
> winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.
> 
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
> 
>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that 
>> is
>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one 
>> USB
>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>> fashion.
>>
>> Steve Ellington
>> n...@carolina.rr.com
>> - Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dave G4AON" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>
>>
>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing 
>>> filters.
>>>
>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>
>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>> =
>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>
>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>
>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>
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> 
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> 


-
Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html

Tennessee QSO Party
http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2/100 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
Elecraft K3#1875
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3093119.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Paul Christensen]

> Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
> ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day, so I can't say
> anything about "dynamic range " or something like that.
> IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
> NR NB and DSP filter function].

I also own all three ('7700/'7800/K3) and I've been comparing the three rigs 
for the past year.  Not one of them really stands out against the other when 
comparing the NR function in SSB, nor CW modes.  In my experience, the two 
radios with the best NR function are the Kenwood TS-480 (CW) and the Ten Tec 
Omni Six (SSB).

On the TS-480, Kenwood developed a DSP CW peaking filter in the NR2 position 
that actually seems to extract CW out from under the noise.  Engaging that 
function has often made the difference between copy and no-copy.  I cannot 
say the same for any other radio.  Likewise, the Omni Six NR function 
somehow manages to peak the SSB audio passband when engaged and never did I 
hear an audio attenuating effect as I do with the '7700 and '7800 -- even 
under weak signal conditions.  The two Icoms seem particularly vulnerable to 
attenuation as the NR function is increased and I find their NR function to 
be nearly useless unless signal strength is strong.

Paul, W9AC
 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Toby  wrote:

> You are, I think, referring to
>  and the work done by
> CDG2000 group. Imho, Martein's site is really worth reading.

Hi Toby,

Yes, followed by a large spurious free IMDDR3  IF system whose noise figure 
is 2db.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD









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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[dj7mgq]

> I understand that the present bar for in-passband Spurious Free 3rd  
> Order dynamic range is 120db, set in 2007, but not on the market.

You are, I think, referring to  
 and the work done by  
CDG2000 group. Imho, Martein's site is really worth reading.

Interestingly "SFDR (Spurious Free Dynamic Range) 112 dB" and  "BDR  
(Blocking Dynamic Range) 125 dB (CW, 500 Hz BW)" are claimed for the  
QS1R, which has almost no analogue filtering  
.

vy 73 de toby

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Geoffrey Mackenzie-Kennedy]

Doug,

>From a European perspective, and this is a personal opinion, while the 3rd
Order dynamic range performance at 2kHz is certainly very important, it is
the Spurious Free 3rd Order dynamic range at spacings less than the IF
bandwidth that really matters, i.e. both test signals INSIDE the IF
passband. Over here, working a weak DX station on say 40m, who is operating
"No-Split" and who is covered by non-stop callers with strong signals, does
require good in-passband performance to help the filter between the ears.
Tx phase noise and clicks have been secondary issues.

It is an unfortunate fact that while receiver A's IMDDR3 performance might
be quoted as being better than receiver B's at 2kHz spacing (outside of the
passband), receiver B might be the better performer at spacings inside the
passband, and more useful, because it has a better IF design than A's.  The
problem of course is that the reviews seldom include in-passband IMDDR3
performance, thus do not expose poor/ lousy IF systems.

I understand that the present bar for in-passband Spurious Free 3rd Order
dynamic range is 120db, set in 2007, but not on the market.

73,
Geoff
GM4ESD


DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:58 PM

> Yeah...at what spacing?
>
>>From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying
>> teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong)
>
> At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db
>
> At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm;  for the K3=28dbm
>
> At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who
> cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter
> anyway.  If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are
> meaningless (to me)it's the nearby signals that will get your
> front end.
>
> de Doug KR2Q

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[dj7mgq]

> I think something like this could be developed as a small standalone box
> using a board that runs embedded Linux. It would have Ethernet on one side
> running Apache for the web interface, and serial plus audio connections on
> the other.

You might want to take a look at . I have no  
connection with them, but it does look interesting: "Ethernut is an  
Open Source Hardware and Software Project for building tiny Embedded  
Ethernet Devices."

vy 73 de toby




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Julian, G4ILO]

Guy, K2AV wrote:
> 
> 
> If the Elecraft guys want to do something serious and high speed, then let 
> them use the Ethernet jack.  I'd like to see an ethernet interface module 
> option so I can directly remote to it from a computer.  Or an 811g
> wireless 
> module for the same purpose.
> 
> 

I can see the uses of that, but why would it have to be an integrated option
and why would it have to come from Elecraft?

I think something like this could be developed as a small standalone box
using a board that runs embedded Linux. It would have Ethernet on one side
running Apache for the web interface, and serial plus audio connections on
the other. By using Hamlib it could be configured to work with ANY radio,
which would greatly increase the potential market size therefore reducing
the cost for would-be buyers.

No, I'm not interested in developing it. But I'm sure it's possible.

-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3091468.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Igor Sokolov]

Hi Steve,
The audio from the rig is analog. I have just said there is one connection 
to the computer but sure there are several lines going from Microkeyer to 
the Radio (sound, ptt,cw,cat). Still there are other advantages like the 
ability to create Y connection to the CAT of the trx similar to LP-bridge.

73, Igor UA9CDC
- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Ellington" 
To: "Igor Sokolov" ; 
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600


> Errr...How do U get the audio from the rig to that microhammicrokeyertwo 
> Igor om?
> Steve Ellington
> n...@carolina.rr.com
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Igor Sokolov" 
> To: "Steve Ellington" ; 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>
>
>> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got 
>> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to 
>> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer 
>> has winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX 
>> amps.
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 
>>> that is
>>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one 
>>> USB
>>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>>> fashion.
>>>
>>> Steve Ellington
>>> n...@carolina.rr.com
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Dave G4AON" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>>
>>>
>>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. 
>>>> The
>>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does 
>>>> the
>>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing 
>>>> filters.
>>>>
>>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web 
>>>> site.
>>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>>
>>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>>> =
>>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>>
>>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>>> __
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>>>
>>> __
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>>
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Johnny Siu]

Hello David,
 
I also have all these 3 rigs on my shack and doing comparison everyday.  Your 
observation does not surprise me.  However, I would like to mention that I am a 
99% voice mode operator.
 
73
 
Johnny Siu VR2XMC
 
 

--- 2009年6月17日 星期三，chen dave  寫道﹕


寄件人: chen dave 
主題: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
收件人: "Dave G4AON" 
副本(CC): elecraft@mailman.qth.net
日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午9:36


Hello all,

      Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day,  so I can't say
anything about "dynamic range " or something like that.
      IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
NR NB and DSP filter function].
     K3 need to change in K4(my opinion):
1,  13.8V connector, after mine thaw during the 2008 cqww contest, I have
replaced it with connector was use in Motorola transmitter.
2,  Shield design.
3,  DSP function improvement.
4,  true FSK control use RS232 port(not ACC port).

     By the way, overall I like the K3 very much.

David/BA4RF

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dave G4AON  wrote:

> There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where "RFEXPERT" is
> comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3.
>
> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775
>
> 73 Dave, G4AON
> K3/100 #80
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[chen dave]

Hello all,

  Two weeks ago, in my friend's shack I compared K3,IC7700,IC7800(by ear
ONLY), since there are no major contest in that day,  so I can't say
anything about "dynamic range " or something like that.
  IMHO, ic7700's DSP is best, 7800 DSP also better than K3. [A/B compare
NR NB and DSP filter function].
 K3 need to change in K4(my opinion):
1,  13.8V connector, after mine thaw during the 2008 cqww contest, I have
replaced it with connector was use in Motorola transmitter.
2,  Shield design.
3,  DSP function improvement.
4,  true FSK control use RS232 port(not ACC port).

 By the way, overall I like the K3 very much.

David/BA4RF

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Dave G4AON  wrote:

> There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where "RFEXPERT" is
> comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3.
>
> http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775
>
> 73 Dave, G4AON
> K3/100 #80
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Guy Olinger, K2AV]

>>> can't understand why the K3 didn't
>>> come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.

You don't want a USB port if you want to do anything circuit wise external 
to the K3 using CTS/DTR leads not used for serial signal.  If the ONLY thing 
you EVER want to do with the serial port is talk to your PC, then USB will 
work.

If the Elecraft guys want to do something serious and high speed, then let 
them use the Ethernet jack.  I'd like to see an ethernet interface module 
option so I can directly remote to it from a computer.  Or an 811g wireless 
module for the same purpose.

73, Guy. 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Wes,

The difference is that we can go to as low as 200 Hz for our first IF 
filter ahead of the 2nd mixer, limiting what it sees for strong off 
frequency signals. The 7600 can only get down to 3 kHz (measured by 
Sherwood closer to 5 kHz) before its 2nd mixer, which is as wide as a 
barn door with respect to interfering signals. The closer to the front 
end of a radio you can get your narrowest filter, the better your 
overall strong signal dynamic range.

73, Eric  WA6HHQ
Elecraft



Wes Stewart wrote:
> First let me say that I once owned and Icom IC-211.  It was such a POS  
> (using solder bridges between IC pins instead of circuit traces for example) 
> that I gave it to a friend who also had one.  I often said that it was a 
> measure of his character that he accepted the "gift" and we still remained 
> friends.  So I am no friend of, or apologist for Icom.
>
> That said, why would the second mixer in the Icom be any more susceptible to 
> overload than the second mixer in the K3? (Disregard the other evidence that 
> the Icom 3 KHz filter isn't really 3 KHz.)
>
> Wes  N7WS
>
> --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft  wrote:
>
> From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> To: "HowardZ" 
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:27 AM
>
> Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing 
> filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first 
> mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP 
> filtering can do any good.
>
> 73, Eric   WA6HHQ
>
>
> HowardZ wrote:
>   
>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>
>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>
>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>
>> 
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>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Wes Stewart]

First let me say that I once owned and Icom IC-211.  It was such a POS  (using 
solder bridges between IC pins instead of circuit traces for example) that I 
gave it to a friend who also had one.  I often said that it was a measure of 
his character that he accepted the "gift" and we still remained friends.  So I 
am no friend of, or apologist for Icom.

That said, why would the second mixer in the Icom be any more susceptible to 
overload than the second mixer in the K3? (Disregard the other evidence that 
the Icom 3 KHz filter isn't really 3 KHz.)

Wes  N7WS

--- On Tue, 6/16/09, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft  wrote:

From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
To: "HowardZ" 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 10:27 AM

Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing 
filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first 
mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP 
filtering can do any good.

73, Eric   WA6HHQ


HowardZ wrote:
> Universal radio lists the radio as having
> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>
> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>
> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[N2TK]

Sounds like a good plan to put the question on the 7600 reflector.

73,
N2TK, Tony 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Johnny Siu
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:58 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

Hello Gentleman,
 
It is interested in reading all your comments.  Just look at another side of a 
coin.  If you post the same question "K3 vs IC7600" in the mail reflector of 
IC7600, perhaps you will get another set of answers.
 
73
 
Johnny Siu VR2XMC

--- 2009年6月17日 星期三，DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL  寫道﹕


寄件人: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL 
主題: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
收件人: "Elecraft Reflector" 
日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午1:58


Yeah...at what spacing?

>From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying
teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong)

At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db

At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm;  for the K3=28dbm

At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who
cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter
anyway.  If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are
meaningless (to me)it's the nearby signals that will get your
front end.

de Doug KR2Q
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Johnny Siu]

Hello Gentleman,
 
It is interested in reading all your comments.  Just look at another side of a 
coin.  If you post the same question "K3 vs IC7600" in the mail reflector of 
IC7600, perhaps you will get another set of answers.
 
73
 
Johnny Siu VR2XMC

--- 2009年6月17日 星期三，DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL  寫道﹕


寄件人: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL 
主題: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
收件人: "Elecraft Reflector" 
日期: 2009年6月17日,星期三,上午1:58


Yeah...at what spacing?

>From the ARRL pages, for the IC7800 (I don't think anyone is saying
teh 7600 is better than the 7800, but I could be wrong)

At 2kc, 3rd order dynamic range for 7800 =86 db; for the K3=103db

At 2kc, 3rd order intercept for 7800 = 21 dbm;  for the K3=28dbm

At 20kc spacing, things may change (I didn't bother to look), but who
cares...if the band is dead (few signals), these numbers won't matter
anyway.  If the band is hopping (crowded), 20kc spacking specs are
meaningless (to me)it's the nearby signals that will get your
front end.

de Doug KR2Q
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on 
> the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital 
> modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles 
> serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection 
> is no longer needed.

You can accomplish the same thing with the K3 and microHAM 
USB Interface III ... in Windows, OS-X or LINUX ... with far 
better receiver performance and save $1000. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 




> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:56 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> 
> 
> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on 
> the 7600 that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital 
> modes from the pc with only one USB cable which handles 
> serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card connection 
> is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this fashion.
> 
> Steve Ellington
> n...@carolina.rr.com
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dave G4AON" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> 
> 
> > The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's 
> RSGB RadCom. 
> > The receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing 
> > does the 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was 
> > noise limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by 
> using the 15 
> > KHz roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 
> KHz roofing 
> > filters.
> >
> > The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web 
> > site. Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
> >
> > 73 Dave, G4AON
> > =
> > Universal radio lists the radio as having
> > "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
> >
> > Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
> >
> > However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive". 
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any 
> case) is simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a 
> proprietary USB sound-card on top, If Icom's drivers work for 
> you great, if you run Linux / mac etc you may be out of luck.. 

The USB CI-V/Audio support in the IC-7200 and 7600 is nothing 
more than an off the shelf USB HUB ic, a USB Audio CODEC and 
a no-name USB UART.  The USB CI-V support is very dependent 
on the quality of the OEM driver for the USB UART.  I have not 
been able to determine if drivers are available for Macintosh 
or LINUX systems or whether certified drivers are available 
for Windows XP and Vista. 

For those who would want USB support for the K3 ... the cost 
and red tape required for Windows Certification are very 
significant for a small company. 

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
  



> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Brendan Minish
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:29 PM
> To: Dan Copeland
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> 
> 
> On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 13:11 -0500, Dan Copeland wrote:
> > I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't Come 
> > with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.
> 
> I am so glad it doesn't have USB. I have a drawer full of USB 
> devices that are now unusable because their vendors stopped 
> supporting them with drivers and/or did not freely publish 
> the information required for 3rd parties to write drivers 
> 
> For the K3 you can get a USB-Serial cable for a few Dollars 
> on ebay, job done. If in a few years you find your version of 
> windows/mac/linux no longer supports this cable then buy a 
> new one for a couple of bucks. no need to buy a new radio in 
> this case! 
> 
> Many devices that are 'USB' are really serial (perhaps at TLL 
> levels) and the USB bit is simply a USB to Serial adapter chip 
> 
> Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any 
> case) is simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a 
> proprietary USB sound-card on top, If Icom's drivers work for 
> you great, if you run Linux / mac etc you may be out of luck.. 
> 
> (*) complete with no proper support for Detecting Split 
> operation for logging purposes
> 
> In a few years time when Icom decide I should have a new 
> radio then USB driver support for the R1500 will probably cease..
> 
> RS232 is not 'outdated' it's a reliable standard that has 
> been around a while. USB may be a standard but the software 
> layer (drivers) needed to make USB stuff actually do anything 
> is anything but 'standard' and this is where the 
> manufacturers have the customer by the 'proverbials'  
> 
> USB, the Un-compatible Serial Bus .. 
> 
> 
> >  That is
> > One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod
> > They will address this.
> 
> this is a mod I will not be buying .. 
> 
> 
> > Dan N0DT
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of 
> Steve Ellington
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM
> > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> > 
> > No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on 
> the 7600 
> > that is nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from 
> the pc with 
> > only one USB cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. 
> > The sound card connection is no longer needed. Several users are 
> > running MixW in this fashion.
> > 
> 
> -- 
> 73
> Brendan EI6IZ 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Steve Ellington]

Physical properties aside, USB's advantage is speed. We are running the K3's 
serial port at 38kb while USB can run 400,000kbJust a tad faster and 
that allows audio and video transfer. True, USB jacks are flimbsey little 
things, if it were mounted on an option board like the current RS232 is, it 
could be replaced without a lot of hassle. Sooner or later, ham rigs will 
either be the only thing around with RS232 or they will change over to USB 
like the rest of the world.
Steve Ellington
n...@carolina.rr.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Christensen" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600


>>> can't understand why the K3 didn't
>>> come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.
>
> I can't speak on behalf of Elecraft but for the majority of us, it's a
> simple matter to convert from serial to USB and more difficult to convert 
> in
> the opposite direction.
>
> USB ports are not nearly as mechanically secure as the DB-9 connector.  An
> accidental strike of the USB plug in the lateral direction can easily 
> cause
> damage the mating USB socket inside the rig (like a K3 used portable). 
> I've
> broken a couple USB ports on my laptop PCs as a result of inadvertent
> strikes.
>
> Myself, I would like to see the beginnings of an optical S/PDIF standard
> that incorporates audio + data/rig control.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Steve Ellington]

FYI. The 7600 also has the serial C1-V for those who need it.
Steve Ellington
n...@carolina.rr.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Brendan Minish" 
To: "Dan Copeland" 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600


> On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 13:11 -0500, Dan Copeland wrote:
>> I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't
>> Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.
>
> I am so glad it doesn't have USB. I have a drawer full of USB devices
> that are now unusable because their vendors stopped supporting them with
> drivers and/or did not freely publish the information required for 3rd
> parties to write drivers
>
> For the K3 you can get a USB-Serial cable for a few Dollars on ebay, job
> done. If in a few years you find your version of windows/mac/linux no
> longer supports this cable then buy a new one for a couple of bucks. no
> need to buy a new radio in this case!
>
> Many devices that are 'USB' are really serial (perhaps at TLL levels)
> and the USB bit is simply a USB to Serial adapter chip
>
> Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any case) is
> simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a proprietary USB sound-card on
> top, If Icom's drivers work for you great, if you run Linux / mac etc
> you may be out of luck..
>
> (*) complete with no proper support for Detecting Split operation for
> logging purposes
>
> In a few years time when Icom decide I should have a new radio then USB
> driver support for the R1500 will probably cease..
>
> RS232 is not 'outdated' it's a reliable standard that has been around a
> while.
> USB may be a standard but the software layer (drivers) needed to make
> USB stuff actually do anything is anything but 'standard' and this is
> where the manufacturers have the customer by the 'proverbials'
>
> USB, the Un-compatible Serial Bus ..
>
>
>>  That is
>> One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod
>> They will address this.
>
> this is a mod I will not be buying ..
>
>
>> Dan N0DT
>>
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>
>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that 
>> is
>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one 
>> USB
>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>> fashion.
>>
>
> -- 
> 73
> Brendan EI6IZ
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Paul Christensen]

>> can't understand why the K3 didn't
>> come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.

I can't speak on behalf of Elecraft but for the majority of us, it's a 
simple matter to convert from serial to USB and more difficult to convert in 
the opposite direction.

USB ports are not nearly as mechanically secure as the DB-9 connector.  An 
accidental strike of the USB plug in the lateral direction can easily cause 
damage the mating USB socket inside the rig (like a K3 used portable).  I've 
broken a couple USB ports on my laptop PCs as a result of inadvertent 
strikes.

Myself, I would like to see the beginnings of an optical S/PDIF standard 
that incorporates audio + data/rig control.

Paul, W9AC 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Brendan Minish]

On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 13:11 -0500, Dan Copeland wrote:
> I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't
> Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.

I am so glad it doesn't have USB. I have a drawer full of USB devices
that are now unusable because their vendors stopped supporting them with
drivers and/or did not freely publish the information required for 3rd
parties to write drivers 

For the K3 you can get a USB-Serial cable for a few Dollars on ebay, job
done. If in a few years you find your version of windows/mac/linux no
longer supports this cable then buy a new one for a couple of bucks. no
need to buy a new radio in this case! 

Many devices that are 'USB' are really serial (perhaps at TLL levels)
and the USB bit is simply a USB to Serial adapter chip 

Icom's USB (if it's similar to that on my IC-R1500 in any case) is
simply serial CI-V (*)done over USB with a proprietary USB sound-card on
top, If Icom's drivers work for you great, if you run Linux / mac etc
you may be out of luck.. 

(*) complete with no proper support for Detecting Split operation for
logging purposes

In a few years time when Icom decide I should have a new radio then USB
driver support for the R1500 will probably cease..

RS232 is not 'outdated' it's a reliable standard that has been around a
while.
USB may be a standard but the software layer (drivers) needed to make
USB stuff actually do anything is anything but 'standard' and this is
where the manufacturers have the customer by the 'proverbials'  

USB, the Un-compatible Serial Bus .. 


>  That is
> One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod 
> They will address this.

this is a mod I will not be buying .. 


> Dan N0DT
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> 
> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is
> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB
> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
> fashion.
> 

-- 
73
Brendan EI6IZ 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604]

Because an RS232 port is much more nearly universal.  Because it's pretty
easy to add USB support to a serial port and a problem to add
serial support to a USB port.  And, if you really want a USB port with
sound "card" included, design one, or get one of the several vendors of
standalone boxes that do that to design one for the K3 to replace the
IO panel of the K3.

Because with built-in USB support gets more complicated.  We were
talking about this at the NCCC meeting last night, in fact.

And I suspect there are other reasons.

73, doug

   From: "Dan Copeland" 
   Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:11:29 -0500

   I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't
   Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. That is
   One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod 
   They will address this.

   Dan N0DT

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Steve Ellington]

Errr...How do U get the audio from the rig to that microhammicrokeyertwo 
Igor om?
Steve Ellington
n...@carolina.rr.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Igor Sokolov" 
To: "Steve Ellington" ; 
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600


> That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got 
> Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to 
> computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has 
> winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
>> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that 
>> is
>> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one 
>> USB
>> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
>> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
>> fashion.
>>
>> Steve Ellington
>> n...@carolina.rr.com
>> - Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dave G4AON" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>>
>>
>>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
>>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
>>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing 
>>> filters.
>>>
>>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
>>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>>
>>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>>> =
>>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>>
>>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>>
>>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[wayne burdick]

Dan Copeland wrote:

> can't understand why the K3 didn't
> come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port.

The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB 
rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.

The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still 
using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can 
use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O 
performance between the two methods.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


---

http://www.elecraft.com

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Igor Sokolov]

That feature can be had on almost any radio, K3 included. I have got 
Microham MicrokeyerII and now I can do with just one USB connection to 
computer. That includes audio, CAT, PTT,CW,FSK. In addition Microkeyer has 
winkey built in and PTT sequencer to deal with external RX and TX amps.

73, Igor UA9CDC

> No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that 
> is
> nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one 
> USB
> cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
> connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
> fashion.
>
> Steve Ellington
> n...@carolina.rr.com
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dave G4AON" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
>
>
>> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
>> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
>> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
>> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
>> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing 
>> filters.
>>
>> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
>> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>>
>> 73 Dave, G4AON
>> =
>> Universal radio lists the radio as having
>> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>>
>> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>>
>> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Dan Copeland]

I still for the life of me can't understand why the K3 didn't
Come with a USB port instead of the outdated com port. That is
One reason I have not bought one yet. Maybe in a future mod 
They will address this.

Dan N0DT

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:56 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is
nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB
cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
fashion.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Bill W4ZV]

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:
> 
> Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing 
> filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first 
> mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP
> 

Icom may be the master of misleading advertising.  The "3 kHz" BW filter
Eric refers to above has actually been measured at 5.2 kHz by Sherwood
(assuming it's the same one used in the IC-7800).  The following is a direct
quote from Sherwood regarding the 7800's "3 kHz" and "6 kHz" (actually
measured 11 kHz) filters below:

"The 3 kHz (5.2 kHz in my radio) roofing filter had a couple dB more IMD
than the 6 kHz (11 kHz) filter."

Source:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ic7800/message/5417

I do not believe any Icom advertising...which is what Universal Radio's
comments are based on.  If you wait for ARRL, RSGB (already published?) or
Sherwood tests of the 7600, my guess is its close-spaced IMD performance
will be about 20-25 dB worse than the K3.  Remember the advertising claims
for the Ultimate Transceiver (the IC-7800)?  Look where it falls in
close-spaced IMD performance on Sherwood's site (80 dB is actually identical
to a little K2...and $10,000 less expensive!)

Regarding the anonymous "RFEXPERT"...this self-proclaimed "expert" reaches
different conclusions about the K3 compared to genuine RF experts like W8JI
and ON4UN (both now K3 users).  Talk is cheap...especially when we don't
know who's doing the talking.  Independent test results speak louder to me
than any Icom advertising.  

73,  Bill
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3087937.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Steve Ellington]

No doubt the K3 performs better but there is one feature on the 7600 that is
nice, the USB port. You can run digital modes from the pc with only one USB
cable which handles serial commands plus audio in/out. The sound card
connection is no longer needed. Several users are running MixW in this
fashion.

Steve Ellington
n...@carolina.rr.com
- Original Message - 
From: "Dave G4AON" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600


> The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
> receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
> 7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
> limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
> roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters.
>
> The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
> Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.
>
> 73 Dave, G4AON
> =
> Universal radio lists the radio as having
> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>
> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>
> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Dave G4AON]

The IC7600 was reviewed by Peter Hart, G3SJX, in June's RSGB RadCom. The
receiver performance is mediocre, only at 50 KHz signal spacing does the
7600 have 104 dB of dynamic range. At 3 KHz spacing it was noise
limited, at 5 KHz spacing Peter squeezed 87 dB by using the 15 KHz
roofing filter, but was noise limited with the 6 or 3 KHz roofing filters.

The review is currently available to RSGB members via the RSGB web site.
Please don't ask me to send anyone a copy.

73 Dave, G4AON
=
Universal radio lists the radio as having
"104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".

Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.

However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Unlikely since thy use a high first IF with their narrowest roofing 
filter at 3 kHz. signals inside that filter will overload the first 
mixer and subsequent stages, well before any later crystal or DSP 
filtering can do any good.

73, Eric   WA6HHQ


HowardZ wrote:
> Universal radio lists the radio as having
> "104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".
>
> Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.
>
> However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
>   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[HowardZ]

Universal radio lists the radio as having
"104dB dynamic range and +30dbm 3rd order intercept point ".

Maybe it will soon make the top of Sherwood's list.

However, I do not see any mention of "diversity receive".
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-vs.-Icom-IC-7600-tp2588586p3086899.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Bob Cunnings]

No, that was his review of the IC-7700. The subject review of the
IC-7600 was just posted yesterday.

Bob NW8L

On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 9:23 AM, SidShusterman  wrote:
> We beat this review to death two months ago.  Check the archives.
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[SidShusterman]

We beat this review to death two months ago.  Check the archives.

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> 
>> Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis.


> 
> Compared with the K3, the 7600 is overpriced and lacking.  
> "Dual Watch" is a joke compared to the KRX3 and even with 
> USB pasted over the CI-V interface, the protocol still fails 
> even to allow access to BOTH VFOs without actually making 
> the second VFO active!  
> 
> 73, 
> 
>... Joe, W4TV 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis.

However, it is not appropriate to shill for a manufacturer. 
Analysis should be balanced and based on accurate information. 

> If you read carefully you will notice he mentions good and 
> bad points for both models.

Unfortunately, each of his "complaints" about the K3 have 
been resolved in current software - particularly the AGC 
"mush" and wandering power in SSB. 

Compared with the K3, the 7600 is overpriced and lacking.  
"Dual Watch" is a joke compared to the KRX3 and even with 
USB pasted over the CI-V interface, the protocol still fails 
even to allow access to BOTH VFOs without actually making 
the second VFO active!  

73, 

   ... Joe, W4TV 
 



> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mark
> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600
> 
> 
> Not necessary.
> Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis.
> If you read carefully you will notice he mentions good and bad points 
> for both models.
> And his comment is either 'recognizeable' or not.
> 
> I do not need his name, I read his comment a few times 
> carefully and I can verify his positive and negative comments 
> on the K3.
> 
> In the end it is up to everyone themselves to decide wether 
> the comment 
> is valid in their situation or not.
> 
> 73 Mark, PA5MW
> 
> 
> Robert Naumann wrote:
> > It's too bad that "RFEXPERT" does not identify himself so that one 
> > could measure "RFEXPERT"'s ability to make such an analysis.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Bob W5OV
> >
> >   
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Robert Naumann]

Mark,

Certainly everyone is entitled to his own opinion and I did note that he
makes comments both pro and con on both radios - sort of.

It is my biased personal opinion that such anonymous critiques are not worth
reading nor worth taking any note of since the source is completely unknown
and unverifiable.

73,

Bob W5OV


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:41 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

Not necessary.
Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis.
If you read carefully you will notice he mentions good and bad points 
for both models.
And his comment is either 'recognizeable' or not.

I do not need his name, I read his comment a few times carefully and
I can verify his positive and negative comments on the K3.

In the end it is up to everyone themselves to decide wether the comment 
is valid in their situation or not.

73 Mark, PA5MW


Robert Naumann wrote:
> It's too bad that "RFEXPERT" does not identify himself so that one could
> measure "RFEXPERT"'s ability to make such an analysis.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
>   


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Mark]

Not necessary.
Everyone is allowed to make their biased analysis.
If you read carefully you will notice he mentions good and bad points 
for both models.
And his comment is either 'recognizeable' or not.

I do not need his name, I read his comment a few times carefully and
I can verify his positive and negative comments on the K3.

In the end it is up to everyone themselves to decide wether the comment 
is valid in their situation or not.

73 Mark, PA5MW


Robert Naumann wrote:
> It's too bad that "RFEXPERT" does not identify himself so that one could
> measure "RFEXPERT"'s ability to make such an analysis.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
>   


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

[Robert Naumann]

It's too bad that "RFEXPERT" does not identify himself so that one could
measure "RFEXPERT"'s ability to make such an analysis.

73,

Bob W5OV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dave G4AON
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:20 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 vs. Icom IC-7600

There's an interesting IC-7600 review on eHam where "RFEXPERT" is
comparing his new IC-7600 with his K3.

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7775

73 Dave, G4AON
K3/100 #80

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