Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
I would take an antenna analyzer and sweep the antenna system (coax with stubs, connectors, etc.) by connecting the analyzer at the xmitter "end" of the antenna system. Disconnect the coax that goes to the amplifier and take that coax and plug it into the analyzer instead and sweep the antenna system with start freq of 3.0 MHz and end point of 8 MHz You should see a "short" somewhere in the 40 meter band, but my guess is that it will not be where you want it to be. IT is important to do this on the antenna *SYSTEM* (coax, connectors, switches, etc.). Jim W6AIM . -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 8:42 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop When I posted on this issue to another list, W3LPL responded that it's fairly common for harmonics with this sort of characteristic to be generated in active electronics like switching power supplies. Sort of identifying which is the culprit and choking every cable connected to it, there's no solution. 73, Jim K9YC On Mon,2/22/2016 8:34 PM, paulb wrote: > For what ever reason the harmonic is still very present..darn.. > oddly has a rasping note not pure carrier. > > A close ham about 400 meters away can also hear the 2nd hamonnic, band > pass in or out makes little change. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jbol...@outlook.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
When I lived in California I had a 80/160m inverted L in which the horizontal part passed over the house. There were alarm wires running through the attic, and when I first tried it I actually vaporized a terminating resistor at one of the windows. Those wires were quite long and possibly resonant lengths. I solved the problem by installing no. 31 ferrite toroids on the alarm wires and also the power supply wires at the alarm control box. I wrapped as many turns of wire as I could on them. That might fix your issue. Vic 4X6GP > On 23 Feb 2016, at 11:03 PM, paulbwrote: > > > Hello again folks > > Thanks to all for the suggestions and hints to what this problem could be. > > Tests have been done at 2 locations; my own home station and here at another > property ( work in progress as we > politely say..) about 125km south of Auckland. > > The same second harmonic garbage is heard at both places. Over the last day > I have completely swapped out > all the 80m and 40m antenna and feeder components here in the provinces. No > change. > > What I now strongly suspect is the only common point at both locales; > > both properties have burglar alarms installed. Both are almost identical > well known European name brand units. > There is no detectable RF radiation from the processors or wiring. > The clincher now that I think about the last time we ran 2 stations here > without any drama > was before the alarm was commissioned here. > > I have dropped the supply and backup DC to the alarm here without any > change, > Likely 3.5 meg RF is simply hammering the PIR's, cable runs are in the roof > cavity. > Can't %100 prove this without fairly major re-wiring, will leave it as is > for the meantime, > > thanks again guys > > cheers from ZL > > Paul > zl1ajy > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Slighty-off-topic-80-meter-second-harmnic-how-to-stop-tp7614506p7614534.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to k2vco@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
I would expect that if it was getting into an alarm system, the alarm would fail in some way. I had a bad problem with mine, cured by a 5th order 200 kHz lowpass filter where simple ferrites and caps did not work. The alarm system has low frequency digital data. I built it with some caps and a few turns on mix 31 cores I had. Since it is not a 50 ohm system, the filter is not exactly as designed, but it worked well enough to completely eliminate the problem. I put it at the alarm controller that was getting affected. 73, Mark W7MLG On Feb 23, 2016 2:04 PM, "paulb"wrote: > > Hello again folks > > Thanks to all for the suggestions and hints to what this problem could be. > > Tests have been done at 2 locations; my own home station and here at > another > property ( work in progress as we > politely say..) about 125km south of Auckland. > > The same second harmonic garbage is heard at both places. Over the last day > I have completely swapped out > all the 80m and 40m antenna and feeder components here in the provinces. No > change. > > What I now strongly suspect is the only common point at both locales; > > both properties have burglar alarms installed. Both are almost identical > well known European name brand units. > There is no detectable RF radiation from the processors or wiring. > The clincher now that I think about the last time we ran 2 stations here > without any drama > was before the alarm was commissioned here. > > I have dropped the supply and backup DC to the alarm here without any > change, > Likely 3.5 meg RF is simply hammering the PIR's, cable runs are in the roof > cavity. > Can't %100 prove this without fairly major re-wiring, will leave it as is > for the meantime, > > thanks again guys > > cheers from ZL > > Paul > zl1ajy > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Slighty-off-topic-80-meter-second-harmnic-how-to-stop-tp7614506p7614534.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to marklgoldb...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
Hello again folks Thanks to all for the suggestions and hints to what this problem could be. Tests have been done at 2 locations; my own home station and here at another property ( work in progress as we politely say..) about 125km south of Auckland. The same second harmonic garbage is heard at both places. Over the last day I have completely swapped out all the 80m and 40m antenna and feeder components here in the provinces. No change. What I now strongly suspect is the only common point at both locales; both properties have burglar alarms installed. Both are almost identical well known European name brand units. There is no detectable RF radiation from the processors or wiring. The clincher now that I think about the last time we ran 2 stations here without any drama was before the alarm was commissioned here. I have dropped the supply and backup DC to the alarm here without any change, Likely 3.5 meg RF is simply hammering the PIR's, cable runs are in the roof cavity. Can't %100 prove this without fairly major re-wiring, will leave it as is for the meantime, thanks again guys cheers from ZL Paul zl1ajy -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Slighty-off-topic-80-meter-second-harmnic-how-to-stop-tp7614506p7614534.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
Please be sure to tell us all what your final solution turns out to be. It may help many of us with related problems. 73, Charlie k3ICH -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Severyn Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:47 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
On Mon,2/22/2016 11:31 PM, David Cutter wrote: I understand that small ferrites are easily overloaded and become non-linear generating harmonics and injecting a signal back into the wire from whence they came. That's theoretically possible, but VERY VERY VERY unlikely. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
Don't forget rain gutters and downspouts that may be slightly corroded at the joints, forming a diode. They make nice frequency doublers due to the non-linear element. John AF6QO On 2/22/2016 11:58 PM, Ian White wrote: I feel sure that Jim and W3LPL are right. That rasping note is a big, big clue that some *other* electronic device is also involved - something else, in addition to your two K3s. That "unknown third party" device is what you need to find. Begin by switching off power to whole sections of the house, and then go around methodically unplugging individual devices. Murphy says: it's something of yours, and it's right there in the shack. 73 from Ian GM3SEK -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: 23 February 2016 04:42 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop When I posted on this issue to another list, W3LPL responded that it's fairly common for harmonics with this sort of characteristic to be generated in active electronics like switching power supplies. Sort of identifying which is the culprit and choking every cable connected to it, there's no solution. 73, Jim K9YC On Mon,2/22/2016 8:34 PM, paulb wrote: For what ever reason the harmonic is still very present..darn.. oddly has a rasping note not pure carrier. A close ham about 400 meters away can also hear the 2nd hamonnic, band pass in or out makes little change. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to severy...@hotmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
I feel sure that Jim and W3LPL are right. That rasping note is a big, big clue that some *other* electronic device is also involved - something else, in addition to your two K3s. That "unknown third party" device is what you need to find. Begin by switching off power to whole sections of the house, and then go around methodically unplugging individual devices. Murphy says: it's something of yours, and it's right there in the shack. 73 from Ian GM3SEK >-Original Message- >From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of >Jim Brown >Sent: 23 February 2016 04:42 >To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to >stop > >When I posted on this issue to another list, W3LPL responded that it's >fairly common for harmonics with this sort of characteristic to be >generated in active electronics like switching power supplies. Sort of >identifying which is the culprit and choking every cable connected to >it, there's no solution. > >73, Jim K9YC > >On Mon,2/22/2016 8:34 PM, paulb wrote: >> For what ever reason the harmonic is still very present..darn.. >> oddly has a rasping note not pure carrier. >> >> A close ham about 400 meters away can also hear the 2nd hamonnic, >> band pass in or out makes little change. > >__ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >Message delivered to gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
I understand that small ferrites are easily overloaded and become non-linear generating harmonics and injecting a signal back into the wire from whence they came. You might have sleeve chokes on all sorts of wires, keying lines, keyboard cables, video cables, the wall clock, lighting, etc. David, G3UNA - Original Message - From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com> To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop When I posted on this issue to another list, W3LPL responded that it's fairly common for harmonics with this sort of characteristic to be generated in active electronics like switching power supplies. Sort of identifying which is the culprit and choking every cable connected to it, there's no solution. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Slighty off topic - 80 meter second harmnic how to stop
When I posted on this issue to another list, W3LPL responded that it's fairly common for harmonics with this sort of characteristic to be generated in active electronics like switching power supplies. Sort of identifying which is the culprit and choking every cable connected to it, there's no solution. 73, Jim K9YC On Mon,2/22/2016 8:34 PM, paulb wrote: For what ever reason the harmonic is still very present..darn.. oddly has a rasping note not pure carrier. A close ham about 400 meters away can also hear the 2nd hamonnic, band pass in or out makes little change. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com