Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
I think I will keep my order for the subreceiver active because I don't want to have to worry about blowing up the second rx when I operate on the same band with both receivers. With two separate rigs there is always the chance of forgetting one and zap goes the deal. I'd like to try the diversity reception also. The subrx will get here when it's ready, and not a day before. That is the way I want it. I don't want a kludged up affair. >From what I've seen so far of this company called Elecraft, I have a warm fuzzy about them. Dale, K9VUJ wb8yqj wrote: > > ... and $1399 + $1399 + $349 (100 watts) = $3147 which > in comparison to competitive offerings is -still- not > excessive... There would be disadvantages in some > respects since the firmware would not know about the > second radio, but on the other side full duplex would > be a given and there would be no contention nor > confusion between the knobs. > > --- > [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update > Bill W4ZV btippett at alum.mit.edu > Sat Jan 19 16:00:37 EST 2008 > > If my second K3 arrives before the KRX3, I > may > give this a try before taking delivery of the KRX3. > Another benefit of this approach is much more > flexibility in antenna switching. >73, Bill W4ZV > > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/TRANSLATION%3A-K3-Subreceiver-Status-Update-tp14977171p14980763.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
I revised my order to eliminate the KRX3. Added an additional filter to the order. de Joe,. aa4nn should cancel their orders forthwith. I know I would. Good try Garry buddy - if nnnyyy it was that easy. !!! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Exactly my thoughts. The basic K3 is such good value that I think this is the way to go. I haven't worked out a solution for sharing an antenna but at 02:15 of the morning even my brain cells are way past it. Simon Brown, HB9DRV - Original Message - From: "Don Rasmussen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .. there would be no contention nor confusion between the knobs. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Bill W4ZV wrote: > > > > HB9DRV: > > >The delay in the sub-RX is making me reconsider whether to buy > the sub-RX and instead just buy a second basic K3 to use for RX. > > I'm having similar thoughts since I already ordered > a second K3 in September, mainly for SO2R use. For true > diversity, it would be necessary for both rigs to be phase- > locked to the same source and then use an external control > program (e.g. HRD, N1MM) to program identical frequencies, etc. > It should not be too hard for someone to figure out how to > run both rigs from one unit's reference oscillator. In my case, > since I will have two units anyway, the incremental cost might > actually be less than the cost of a KRX3. Still thinking... > Yet another option might be to carefully calibrate both K3s to the same frequency, and hope that the drifts of both would be similar. Or buy 2X $99 KTCXO3-1s which are spec'ed to +/- 1ppm (firmware corrected to 0.5ppm) and hope temperature and aging drift would be very similar. This would still not be true diversity using phase-locked receivers but would be better than other rigs currently on the market (Orion's Main and Sub in my unit were offset by ~2.33 Hz). If my second K3 arrives before the KRX3, I may give this a try before taking delivery of the KRX3. Another benefit of this approach is much more flexibility in antenna switching. 73, Bill W4ZV -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/TRANSLATION%3A-K3-Subreceiver-Status-Update-tp14974838p14975111.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Good stuff. Makes sense. The piece that keeps getting me, is that people, much more experienced than I, are selling $10,000 rigs, to buy a $2,000->$3,000 rig. Makes me gohm ;) Dave Wilburn K4DGW K2/100 - S/N 5982 Phil & Debbie Salas wrote: "Myself I don't consider this a debacle at all - what we are seeing is a small high-tech company bringing out a product that is already surpassing the competition in terms of performance and putting the release of a flagship radio from one of the major Japanese manufacturers to shame." I completely agree. Should Elecraft have waited until everything was ready before announcing the K3? If they had, there wouldn't be 200+ K3s out there and more shipping every day. I'd rather have a K3 now without all the options, rather than wait until everything was ready. I spent 33 years in new product development (most of the time at Rockwell/Collins). I averaged a 20% development time overrun on new products. When you do innovative things for the first time, you really cannot anticipate all the issues you will run into. But it is best to be optimistic on your schedules. If you put out a pessimistic schedule (trying to take everything into consideration), you will not have the sense of urgency during the development, and you will still run into things that you didn't anticipate. I used to always say that it is MUCH better to miss an optimistic schedule than to miss a pessimistic schedule. I'm looking forward to receiving my K3. Hopefully it will be here shortly. And while I do want (and have ordered) the second receiver, I am willing to wait for the optimally designed seconmd receiver. Phil - AD5X ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Fellow Elecrafters: As several posters have noted, characterizing the situation as a "debacle" is a bit extreme. My apologies. 73, Steve Kercel AA4AK Myself I don't consider this a debacle at all ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Exactly! My definition of a debacle is something like the Yaesu FT-1000 series of key click generators that were allowed on the air. Yaesu was dragged kicking and screaming over the course of five years into the realization that there was a problem. AFAIK, Yaesu NEVER publicly admitted the design flaw and pretty much left their customers who cared about the quality of their transmitted signal holding the bag. They're still putting out trash. Take a look at the ARRL lab report on Yaesu's new entry level rig, the FT-450. I've never seen one that bad. My TS-520 does better and it's 30 years old. The difference is the design engineer/co-owner for the K3 has the cajones to post the problems which have been encountered, and the fixes and time frame necessary to put out a top flight product. The Yaesu engineers/owners hid under their desk and the marketing department. Also, Vertex Standard is huge and has many times the technical and manufacturing resources compared to Elecraft. I'd be surprised if Elecraft have more than 25 people on the payroll. Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote: | Myself I don't consider this a debacle at all - what we are seeing is a | small high-tech company bringing out a product that is already | surpassing the competition in terms of performance and putting the | release of a flagship radio from one of the major Japanese manufacturers | to shame. | | There is more communication with the engineers at Elecraft in a single | week than with the combined engineers at Kenwood / Icom / Yaesu in a | whole year. | | I do not call delaying a module a debacle when the engineers decide it | doesn't meet the current design targets. | | The delay in the sub-RX is making me reconsider whether to buy the | sub-RX and instead just buy a second basic K3 to use for RX. | | Simon Brown, HB9DRV - -- R. Kevin Stover, ACØH -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHkhTE11jxjloa2wsRAuGKAJ9fBYgXNH3r00DXe/mbJzjr3WzuwQCfZ1qq V+E95yRLEq7VL4dTZhNKnI8= =fU57 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Myself I don't consider this a debacle at all - what we are seeing is a small high-tech company bringing out a product that is already surpassing the competition in terms of performance and putting the release of a flagship radio from one of the major Japanese manufacturers to shame. There is more communication with the engineers at Elecraft in a single week than with the combined engineers at Kenwood / Icom / Yaesu in a whole year. I do not call delaying a module a debacle when the engineers decide it doesn't meet the current design targets. The delay in the sub-RX is making me reconsider whether to buy the sub-RX and instead just buy a second basic K3 to use for RX. Simon Brown, HB9DRV - Original Message - From: "Stephen W. Kercel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I remain a loyal customer of Elecraft, but I do hope that they will take a lesson from this debacle. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Fellow Elecrafters: I have no doubt as to the integrity, honesty or technical excellence of Elecraft, and am delighted with the K2 that I have been using for the past two years. As I posted on this list about 6 months ago, my impression of the release of the K3 is that it is a lot like release of the whatever is the latest version of Windows. At the time, someone responded to me that "thank God, Elecraft is not Microsoft." That much is true. Microsoft always makes its major releases several years before they are actually ready (and does not appear even to be embarrassed about it). Elecraft has dropped the ball only this once. Nevertheless, they have indeed dropped the ball on the K3. I stand by my initial expectation that although I would like to have a K3, I see no point in ordering one until at least two years after the initial release date. The seemingly endless delay in delivering on orders prepaid 7 months ago, the indefinite unavailability of the sub-receiver (a prime motivation in my choice to upgrade from the K2 when the time finally does come), and the rapid ongoing evolution of the firmware all indicate to me that the K3 was nowhere close to being ready when Elecraft started taking orders last spring. I remain a loyal customer of Elecraft, but I do hope that they will take a lesson from this debacle. Steve Kercel AA4AK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Likewise. Jim - KE0NE - Original Message - From: "John Klewer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tom AK2B" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update AMEN! Tom AK2B wrote: Hi Steve, "The Believers" sounds more like a 60's rock group than a description of Elecraft customers. From my perspective, working for a small business, you become well acquainted with your customers over a period of time. A lot of these customers come back because they trust you based upon their past experiences. So, you are absolutely correct when you say that a company's word and reputation are paramount. I've been dealing with Elecraft since 2004. In that time I've had numerous occasions where I had to contact the company for a variety of reasons. In no case were my e-mails or phone calls ignored or sidetracked to a foreign country. Every experience I've had with Elecraft whether through their products or customer support has been positive. (I wish I could say that about more than a handful of the companies I do business with.) The simple truth is, any company can hit a bump in the road and will. At that point, they have to rely on their word and past reputation. Based upon Elecraft's track record, I don't feel the least worried. When I read posts like yours, I just assume you haven't any prior experience with the company in which to base your comments. It is very easy to look with a jaundiced eye towards a lot of disreputable businesses these days and then lump them all together. In the long run, though, it is not fair to those that who have done nothing to warrant it. I don't see Elecraft as a religion to which your "Believers" tag implies. They are a COMPANY of people of which I have had the pleasure of doing business with. I like what they sell and I like the way the treat me. It’s that simple. The K3 is as a major undertaking by a couple of wide eyed hams in Aptos who think they can build the world’s best amateur transceiver. I think they have done it – even though there remain a few bumps. I think they also feel a strong sense of responsibility in making sure that you not only get what they have advertised but that it also works as advertised. Frankly, I see it all as rather exciting that the K3 is still undergoing so many changes right before my eyes and that it only takes a few mouse clicks to implement them. But, make no mistake, the K3 as it sits is a remarkable product - maybe not finished - but, none-the-less, remarkable. The fact that the K3 will be getting even better with time leaves me feeling that my money was not only well spent – but is also producing dividends. Come to think of it, maybe I am a Believer. Tom, AK2B Steve Sacco NN4X wrote: Actually (and this may be a shock to "The Believers") you might be surprised to know that there seems to be a rather LARGE group of people who agree with me, not only for the "TRANSLATION" e-mail, but also the "OPEN LETTER" e-mail which I sent last month. They say so, enthusiastically, in private correspondence. No joke. You see, John, when all's said and done, all we have is our reputation. There are those who stand and deliver on promises, those who don't. Those who's word cannot be trusted must be held accountable. This HAS to be the case, because, at a high level, what else holds a civilization together? Anyway, enjoy S/N 157! 73, Steve NN4X EL98jh ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Nicely said, Tom. 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
AMEN! Tom AK2B wrote: Hi Steve, "The Believers" sounds more like a 60's rock group than a description of Elecraft customers. From my perspective, working for a small business, you become well acquainted with your customers over a period of time. A lot of these customers come back because they trust you based upon their past experiences. So, you are absolutely correct when you say that a company's word and reputation are paramount. I've been dealing with Elecraft since 2004. In that time I've had numerous occasions where I had to contact the company for a variety of reasons. In no case were my e-mails or phone calls ignored or sidetracked to a foreign country. Every experience I've had with Elecraft whether through their products or customer support has been positive. (I wish I could say that about more than a handful of the companies I do business with.) The simple truth is, any company can hit a bump in the road and will. At that point, they have to rely on their word and past reputation. Based upon Elecraft's track record, I don't feel the least worried. When I read posts like yours, I just assume you haven't any prior experience with the company in which to base your comments. It is very easy to look with a jaundiced eye towards a lot of disreputable businesses these days and then lump them all together. In the long run, though, it is not fair to those that who have done nothing to warrant it. I don't see Elecraft as a religion to which your "Believers" tag implies. They are a COMPANY of people of which I have had the pleasure of doing business with. I like what they sell and I like the way the treat me. It’s that simple. The K3 is as a major undertaking by a couple of wide eyed hams in Aptos who think they can build the world’s best amateur transceiver. I think they have done it – even though there remain a few bumps. I think they also feel a strong sense of responsibility in making sure that you not only get what they have advertised but that it also works as advertised. Frankly, I see it all as rather exciting that the K3 is still undergoing so many changes right before my eyes and that it only takes a few mouse clicks to implement them. But, make no mistake, the K3 as it sits is a remarkable product - maybe not finished - but, none-the-less, remarkable. The fact that the K3 will be getting even better with time leaves me feeling that my money was not only well spent – but is also producing dividends. Come to think of it, maybe I am a Believer. Tom, AK2B Steve Sacco NN4X wrote: Actually (and this may be a shock to "The Believers") you might be surprised to know that there seems to be a rather LARGE group of people who agree with me, not only for the "TRANSLATION" e-mail, but also the "OPEN LETTER" e-mail which I sent last month. They say so, enthusiastically, in private correspondence. No joke. You see, John, when all's said and done, all we have is our reputation. There are those who stand and deliver on promises, those who don't. Those who's word cannot be trusted must be held accountable. This HAS to be the case, because, at a high level, what else holds a civilization together? Anyway, enjoy S/N 157! 73, Steve NN4X EL98jh ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Hi Steve, "The Believers" sounds more like a 60's rock group than a description of Elecraft customers. From my perspective, working for a small business, you become well acquainted with your customers over a period of time. A lot of these customers come back because they trust you based upon their past experiences. So, you are absolutely correct when you say that a company's word and reputation are paramount. I've been dealing with Elecraft since 2004. In that time I've had numerous occasions where I had to contact the company for a variety of reasons. In no case were my e-mails or phone calls ignored or sidetracked to a foreign country. Every experience I've had with Elecraft whether through their products or customer support has been positive. (I wish I could say that about more than a handful of the companies I do business with.) The simple truth is, any company can hit a bump in the road and will. At that point, they have to rely on their word and past reputation. Based upon Elecraft's track record, I don't feel the least worried. When I read posts like yours, I just assume you haven't any prior experience with the company in which to base your comments. It is very easy to look with a jaundiced eye towards a lot of disreputable businesses these days and then lump them all together. In the long run, though, it is not fair to those that who have done nothing to warrant it. I don't see Elecraft as a religion to which your "Believers" tag implies. They are a COMPANY of people of which I have had the pleasure of doing business with. I like what they sell and I like the way the treat me. It’s that simple. The K3 is as a major undertaking by a couple of wide eyed hams in Aptos who think they can build the world’s best amateur transceiver. I think they have done it – even though there remain a few bumps. I think they also feel a strong sense of responsibility in making sure that you not only get what they have advertised but that it also works as advertised. Frankly, I see it all as rather exciting that the K3 is still undergoing so many changes right before my eyes and that it only takes a few mouse clicks to implement them. But, make no mistake, the K3 as it sits is a remarkable product - maybe not finished - but, none-the-less, remarkable. The fact that the K3 will be getting even better with time leaves me feeling that my money was not only well spent – but is also producing dividends. Come to think of it, maybe I am a Believer. Tom, AK2B Steve Sacco NN4X wrote: > > > Actually (and this may be a shock to "The Believers") you might be > surprised to know that there seems to be a rather LARGE group of people > who agree with me, not only for the "TRANSLATION" e-mail, but also the > "OPEN LETTER" e-mail which I sent last month. They say so, > enthusiastically, in private correspondence. No joke. > > You see, John, when all's said and done, all we have is our reputation. > > There are those who stand and deliver on promises, those who don't. > > Those who's word cannot be trusted must be held accountable. This HAS to > be the case, because, at a high level, what else holds a civilization > together? > > Anyway, enjoy S/N 157! > > 73, > > Steve NN4X > EL98jh > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/RE%3A-TRANSLATION%3A-K3-Subreceiver-Status-Update-tp14953421p14957797.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
Dave I agree that the delay in deliver is disappointing. I have a second receiver on order too. I also am disappointed by the lack of maturity of the firmware. HOWEVER - I have a K3 (#70) and it is a joy to use. What it does, it does VERY well and I still believe that the remaining features will be implemented and operating annoyances fixed. WRT to eham reviews of the OMNI VII I'm sure the OMNI VII is a fine piece of gear. The K3, OMNI VII and Flex 5000 are all interesting, innovative products with many 5 star ratings. You might visit the Ten-Tec OMNI VII Yahoo group. I believe that you may see similar concerns about that product. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the Flex has it's own issues. I've been involved with programming and new RF product development for 35 years. The only rule that consistently applies is Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law Bob KD8CGH KX1, K2, K3, ... ? -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/TRANSLATION%3A-K3-Subreceiver-Status-Update-%28KRX3-option%29-tp14946083p14949794.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update
Hi John - Actually (and this may be a shock to "The Believers") you might be surprised to know that there seems to be a rather LARGE group of people who agree with me, not only for the "TRANSLATION" e-mail, but also the "OPEN LETTER" e-mail which I sent last month. They say so, enthusiastically, in private correspondence. No joke. You see, John, when all's said and done, all we have is our reputation. There are those who stand and deliver on promises, those who don't. Those who's word cannot be trusted must be held accountable. This HAS to be the case, because, at a high level, what else holds a civilization together? Anyway, enjoy S/N 157! 73, Steve NN4X EL98jh Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:32:18 -0500 From: "John Gaynard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option) To: Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I doubt you'll get any chuckles from the majority of list readers. Probably just the opposite. I do not believe that Wayne's emails need any translation. John K8WDN K3 #157 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
Hi all, I have tried to stay out of the noise on this but I felt I had to comment. I know the delay in the 2nd Receiver is frustrating but I think the fact that one of the owners of the company will mail the list to say that they are reworking because they are not happy with the result is fantastic! It would have been so easy to simply release it 'as is'. However, they have decided it is not up to the standard they were looking for. I cannot think of another company so committed to quality. I would much rather wait and get a great product. On the subject of the Omni VII, in my opinion it is not an Omni at all, it is a Jupiter. VHF first IF etc. The Omni VII was a far better radio IMHO. You may have different opinions of course :-) I am sure if the gentleman who is thinking about cancelling his K3 order were to ask, there would be plenty of people looking for his place in the queue ;-) 73 Ian -- Ian J Maude, G0VGS SysOp GB7MBC DX Cluster Member RSGB, GQRP K2 #4044 |K3 #? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
Barry N1EU wrote: > > Dave, I also find the K3 subrx delay a real bummer that may impact my > purchase timing. > > But as far as your proposition that "The Ten Tec Omni VII . . . may be a > worthy and fully developed competitor", are you REALLY buying that? I > guess worthiness (not to mention "fully developed") totally depends on the > context of comparison and how quickly you're apt to butt up against the > radio's limitations. In tough band condx, I don't think it would be much > of a comparison. > In addition to performance (e.g. 10-15 dB IMDDR3), there's a difference in cost. I would configure the K3 as a competitor to Omni VII as follows: Omni VII (no ATU) - $2650 600 Hz CW filter- 99 Total $2749 K3/100 (no ATU) - $1989 (assembled) KXV3 (for RX ANT) - 79 500 Hz CW filter- 79 Total $2147 (assembled...less $240 if kitted) The Omni VII has no Sub-RX and never will. The K3 will eventually have one with roughly equivalent performance as its Main. Is the O7's scope worth another $600 (assembled K3) or $840 (kitted K3)? Not in my opinion, but 10-15 dB IMD difference would be worth it to me even if the prices were reversed! 73, Bill W4ZV -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/TRANSLATION%3A-K3-Subreceiver-Status-Update-%28KRX3-option%29-tp14946083p14949373.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
Barry N1EU wrote: > > Dave, I also find the K3 subrx delay a real bummer that may impact my > purchase timing. > > But as far as your proposition that "The Ten Tec Omni VII . . . may be a > worthy and fully developed competitor", are you REALLY buying that? I > guess worthiness (not to mention "fully developed") totally depends on the > context of comparison and how quickly you're apt to butt up against the > radio's limitations. In tough band condx, I don't think it would be much > of a comparison. > The K3 also has a 5.0 review rating at eHam. What does that prove? Like you, I am disappointed at the amount of promised features still to be delivered. It takes the shine out of owning a new K3 just a bit. If I was going to write a review at eHam, I'd give it only a 4 just because of that. But do I regret buying it? No. And when those features eventually come, I'll still be ahead of all those who held off buying until they were ready. - Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: 222 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/TRANSLATION%3A-K3-Subreceiver-Status-Update-%28KRX3-option%29-tp14946083p14949372.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
Dave, I also find the K3 subrx delay a real bummer that may impact my purchase timing. But as far as your proposition that "The Ten Tec Omni VII . . . may be a worthy and fully developed competitor", are you REALLY buying that? I guess worthiness (not to mention "fully developed") totally depends on the context of comparison and how quickly you're apt to butt up against the radio's limitations. In tough band condx, I don't think it would be much of a comparison. 73, Barry N1EU David and Dianne on Comcast wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > The delay of the second receiver option is to me both highly regrettable > and somewhat deceptive. > > I, for one, based my purchase decision greatly on this option being > ready for prime time which is obviously was not and apparently will not > be any time soon. Production delays are forgivable and understandable > but discovering that this option which is touted as a big-time feature > but is really no where near ready is confidence deflating. > > I have been personally patient waiting for my K3 (as are many others) > and occasionally publicly supportive on this list of the delays that > Elecraft has been experiencing. Now we discover that a MAJOR K3 feature > is no where near production ready, if even designed at this time. Come > on > > As for me, I'm reassessing my purchase decision and may wait until the > K3 project has matured. > > I have bought lots of transceivers over the years and this was to be the > first I ever considered buying in its first year. I now wondering if I > should still make that exception. > > The Ten Tec Omni VII has a 5.0 Review rating out of 25 reviews on Eham > and may be a worthy and fully developed competitor. > > Very disappointed in all of this. > > Elecraft does a lot of great things but this one was really lame. > > Flame away. I could care less. > > My $.02 > > 73 de N1LQ-Dave > > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/TRANSLATION%3A-K3-Subreceiver-Status-Update-%28KRX3-option%29-tp14946083p14949164.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
I doubt you'll get any chuckles from the majority of list readers. Probably just the opposite. I do not believe that Wayne's emails need any translation. John K8WDN K3 #157 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Sacco NN4X Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 10:59 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option) For fun, I thought I'd provide an "East Coast" translation of this recent announcement from Elecraft. Enjoy! 73, Steve NN4X EL98jh >Message: 38 >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:18:06 -0800 >From: wayne burdick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option) >To: Elecraft Reflector >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > >I wanted to give those who've ordered a K3 subreceiver a status update. >First, thanks for your patience; I realize the subreceiver has been >significantly delayed. (This is also pushing out the DVR. Lyle, KK7P >and I are collaborating on the PCBs and firmware for both units.) TRANSLATION: We've been stringing everyone along for, what...9 months or so? We promised that very useful KRX3 option, and we're pretty sure that more than a few folks have ordered the K3 based upon the existence that option. THANKS for buying our sales puffery! Unfortunately, we can't manage to bury the truth any longer. Here's the deal: We're nowhere close to being ready on the KRX3. >When we release a product, it has to meet a number of criteria. Raw >performance by traditional measures is just one of these. Fortunately >the subreceiver has met our expectations in this regard, with dynamic >range virtually identical to that of the main. TRANSLATION: blah blah blah blah...this is filler to divert your attention...let's hope they take the bait. >But there are two other requirements that we must meet: excellent >mutual isolation between the main and receivers, and ease of >installation. Recently, we made the difficult decision that both must >be improved. > >Isolation between the receivers is critical to usability. For example, >if you're listening to an extremely strong signal on one receiver, none >of it should leak into the other's I.F. After extensive testing, we >concluded that we were close, but needed more isolation. > >Regarding installation: Someone with no experience should be able to >install or remove the subreceiver without much difficulty. The present >installation process is just a bit too complex once all other modules >and their associated cables are in place; the left side, chassis >stiffener, and several cables have to be removed. This has a secondary >effect, which is to make it very time-consuming to change crystal >filters on either receiver. We felt that we should improve this now, >before all fabrications were cast in stone. TRANSLATION: Our first cut at a design, and the prototypes we've put together from that, don't work very well. We've tried and tried, but they just don't. >Both isolation and installation can be improved with changes to our >original KRX3 PCB layout. I'm working on this now. Once the PC board >and shield designs are complete, we'll quickly build first articles and >run them through all of the tests again. TRANSLATION: We're doing a major re-design. Next come the prototypes and testing. No idea when it'll be ready. >I'm confident that these improvements will allow the subreceiver to >live up to your expectations as well as ours. We'll post further >updates as we make progress. TRANSLATION: We hope you'll latch onto this part of the spin, and not think about how we've (once again) made promises we couldn't keep, and didn't let you know until we couldn't explain it away anymore. >(I know, I know -- "Stop rambling and get back to work!") TRANSLATION: Let's hope the cute signoff will take the edge off of any anger that we haven't managed to nullify with the earlier part of the announcement. _._. _ _.._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
Mike: Other than possibly Lyle, KK7P, and of course Wayne, I know NO other FTs who have seven SEEN the KRX3 yet... we're waiting just as everyone else is. For my K3 contesting, I'm using the 400 Hz CW filter, but I'll probably buy the 1.8Khz (SSB), and 1kHz (CW) filters in time. Actually, I'm kinda waiting to see what comes of the proposed 'programmable' filters which might well replace any 'extra' filters I'd want to buy. 73, Tom N0SS At 11:26 01/17/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be interested in hearing from the Beta testers if any of them had the option in their hands for testing and a run down on the performance problems they may have seen. I plan to use my K-3 for contesting/dxing so the sub rx is an important option. (I'd like to have somewhat the same capability my MKV had with the K-3). Second question for the contest types on the list, what filters have you chosen for your K-3. You can respond direct if you like unless the info is viewed to be enough of general interest. Thanks Mike/aj9c Don Rasmussen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> For fun, I thought I'd provide an "East Coast" > translation of this recent announcement from Elecraft. > -- > > As Rodney Dangerfield would say "tough crowd - tough > crowd"! > > There is probably a fair amount of truth in Steve's > humorous comments, but I balance them against what the > Elecraft guys have on the table today. They offer > several product lines that operate at the top of the > specifications charts, without a revolving door to a > huge service desk, there's immediate attention to each > user on any specific product issue, and at a price > that undercuts the competition. > > I'm resigned that the highest cost of accepting > Elecraft production model is time, and have planned > accordingly. > > It's still painful, all this waiting. But with respect > to the subreceiver it beats a weird alice design > w/marginal isolation pushed out early. You might > expect that in some of the competing manufacturing > models. > > YMMV (your milage may vary). > > de wb8yqj > > > [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update > (KRX3 option) > Steve Sacco NN4X nn4x at embarqmail.com > Thu Jan 17 10:58:47 EST 2008 > > Previous message: [Elecraft] Err TXF > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ > author ] > > > > For fun, I thought I'd provide an "East Coast" > translation of this > recent announcement from Elecraft. > > Enjoy! > > > 73, > Steve NN4X > EL98jh > > > > > >Message: 38 > >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:18:06 -0800 > >From: wayne burdick > >Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Subreceiver Status Update > (KRX3 option) > >To: Elecraft Reflector > >Message-ID: <6cc130c50266a27a945ae9276b85b9d1 at > elecraft.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; > format=flowed > > > >I wanted to give those who've ordered a K3 > subreceiver a status update. > >First, thanks for your patience; I realize the > subreceiver has been > >significantly delayed. (This is also pushing out the > DVR. Lyle, KK7P > >and I are collaborating on the PCBs and firmware for > both units.) > > TRANSLATION: We've been stringing everyone along for, > what...9 months > or so? We promised that very useful KRX3 option, and > we're pretty > sure that more than a few folks have ordered the K3 > based upon the > existence that option. THANKS for buying our sales > puffery! Unfortunately, we can't manage to bury the > truth any > longer. Here's the deal: We're nowhere close to being > ready on the KRX3. > > > > >When we release a product, it has to meet a number of > criteria. Raw > >performance by traditional measures is just one of > these. Fortunately > >the subreceiver has met our expectations in this > regard, with dynamic > >range virtually identical to that of the main. > > > > TRANSLATION: blah blah blah blah...this is filler to > divert your > attention...let's hope they take the bait. > > > >But there are two other requirements that we must > meet: excellent > >mutual isolation between the main and receivers, and > ease of > >installation. Recently, we made the difficult > decision that both must > >be improved. > > > >Isolation between the receivers is critical to > usability. For example, > >if you're listening to an extremely strong signal on > one receiver, none > >of it should leak into the other's I.F. After > extensive testing, we > >concluded that we were close, but needed more > isolation. > > > >Regarding installation: Someone with no experience > should be able to > >install or remove the subreceiver without much > difficulty. The present > >installation process is just a bit too complex once > all other modules > >and their associated cables are in place; the left > side, chassis > >stiffener, and several cables have to be removed. > This has a secondary > >effect, which is to make it very time-consuming to > change crystal > >f
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
Steve Sacco NN4X wrote: For fun, I thought I'd provide an "East Coast" translation of this recent announcement from Elecraft. I left the East Coast 37 years ago for sunny California. I don't miss digging my car out in the morning and then getting yelled at for being late to work, or the general cynicism and impatience that characterized (and apparently still characterizes) so many of the inhabitants. Just like that big wave, the KRX3 will arrive when it does, dude. (fade out Beach Boys music...) -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update (KRX3 option)
I would be interested in hearing from the Beta testers if any of them had the option in their hands for testing and a run down on the performance problems they may have seen. I plan to use my K-3 for contesting/dxing so the sub rx is an important option. (I'd like to have somewhat the same capability my MKV had with the K-3). Second question for the contest types on the list, what filters have you chosen for your K-3. You can respond direct if you like unless the info is viewed to be enough of general interest. Thanks Mike/aj9c Don Rasmussen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> For fun, I thought I'd provide an "East Coast" > translation of this recent announcement from Elecraft. > -- > > As Rodney Dangerfield would say "tough crowd - tough > crowd"! > > There is probably a fair amount of truth in Steve's > humorous comments, but I balance them against what the > Elecraft guys have on the table today. They offer > several product lines that operate at the top of the > specifications charts, without a revolving door to a > huge service desk, there's immediate attention to each > user on any specific product issue, and at a price > that undercuts the competition. > > I'm resigned that the highest cost of accepting > Elecraft production model is time, and have planned > accordingly. > > It's still painful, all this waiting. But with respect > to the subreceiver it beats a weird alice design > w/marginal isolation pushed out early. You might > expect that in some of the competing manufacturing > models. > > YMMV (your milage may vary). > > de wb8yqj > > > [Elecraft] TRANSLATION: K3 Subreceiver Status Update > (KRX3 option) > Steve Sacco NN4X nn4x at embarqmail.com > Thu Jan 17 10:58:47 EST 2008 > > Previous message: [Elecraft] Err TXF > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ > author ] > > > > For fun, I thought I'd provide an "East Coast" > translation of this > recent announcement from Elecraft. > > Enjoy! > > > 73, > Steve NN4X > EL98jh > > > > > >Message: 38 > >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:18:06 -0800 > >From: wayne burdick > >Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Subreceiver Status Update > (KRX3 option) > >To: Elecraft Reflector > >Message-ID: <6cc130c50266a27a945ae9276b85b9d1 at > elecraft.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; > format=flowed > > > >I wanted to give those who've ordered a K3 > subreceiver a status update. > >First, thanks for your patience; I realize the > subreceiver has been > >significantly delayed. (This is also pushing out the > DVR. Lyle, KK7P > >and I are collaborating on the PCBs and firmware for > both units.) > > TRANSLATION: We've been stringing everyone along for, > what...9 months > or so? We promised that very useful KRX3 option, and > we're pretty > sure that more than a few folks have ordered the K3 > based upon the > existence that option. THANKS for buying our sales > puffery! Unfortunately, we can't manage to bury the > truth any > longer. Here's the deal: We're nowhere close to being > ready on the KRX3. > > > > >When we release a product, it has to meet a number of > criteria. Raw > >performance by traditional measures is just one of > these. Fortunately > >the subreceiver has met our expectations in this > regard, with dynamic > >range virtually identical to that of the main. > > > > TRANSLATION: blah blah blah blah...this is filler to > divert your > attention...let's hope they take the bait. > > > >But there are two other requirements that we must > meet: excellent > >mutual isolation between the main and receivers, and > ease of > >installation. Recently, we made the difficult > decision that both must > >be improved. > > > >Isolation between the receivers is critical to > usability. For example, > >if you're listening to an extremely strong signal on > one receiver, none > >of it should leak into the other's I.F. After > extensive testing, we > >concluded that we were close, but needed more > isolation. > > > >Regarding installation: Someone with no experience > should be able to > >install or remove the subreceiver without much > difficulty. The present > >installation process is just a bit too complex once > all other modules > >and their associated cables are in place; the left > side, chassis > >stiffener, and several cables have to be removed. > This has a secondary > >effect, which is to make it very time-consuming to > change crystal > >filters on either receiver. We felt that we should > improve this now, > >before all fabrications were cast in stone. > > > TRANSLATION: Our first cut at a design, and the > prototypes we've put > together from that, don't work very well. We've tried > and tried, but > they just don't. > > > >Both isolation and installation can be improved with > changes to our > >original KRX3 PCB layout. I'm working on this now. > Once the PC board > >and shiel
