Re: NEC Question
Mike: There is no Federal requirement for the manufacturer to have equipment listed or NRTL approved. The requirements are set by localities, as Richard Woods clearly points out. I can understand that in some companies, the powers-that-be have little patience with the time and expense of obtaining a listing. The delay in hitting the market is often more costly than the approval process itself. I say TOUGH. They should have allowed for that in the original project plan and schedule. There was one, wasn't there? If you are having a problem, just ask marketing to agree to exclude the areas that Richard enumerated from their sales areas. If it's OK to exclude LA, etc. etc., than listing isn't needed, legally. But the competition may be listing, so not doing so puts you at a disadvantage. I have asked managers to imagine sitting on the witness stand at a product liability trial, and trying to answer the question, why didn't you get safety approval from an NRTL? When the implications of shortcuts are driven home, most people see the light. Those that don't need to stick their fingers in an unlisted light socket. Rant concluded, best regards, Jack Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Phone: 716 442 3909 Fax: 716 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - Original Message - From: wo...@sensormatic.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:23 PM Subject: RE: NEC Question | | Mike, regardless of what the NEC says, and it is not very clear in this | regard, it is the state, county and city electrical codes and other local | regulations that apply. Many jurisdictions have deviations from the NEC | and/or have other regulations that require electrical equipment sold to the | general public be Listed. I know of the following locations: Virginia, North | Carolina, Los Angeles, Counties of Los Angeles and Orange, and San | Francisco. I have also heard but cannot confirm that other locations include | Oregon, Washington, New York city and Chicago. | | Richard Woods | Sensormatic Electronics | | | -Original Message- | From: Mike Morrow [mailto:mi...@ucentric.com] | Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:52 AM | To: EMC Society | Subject: NEC Question | | | | Can someone point me to a section in the NEC that says a piece of | RESIDENTIAL computer equipment must be listed (NEC definition). Article | 645 which requires a listed piece of equipment appears to apply to a | computer room and not a residence. | | Basically I've been asked where its says a piece of computer equipment must | listed/approved by a NRTL. I'm ignoring the obvious liability implications | should someone get injured for the purposes of this question.. | | Any help is appreciated. | | Mike Morrow | Senior Compliance Engineer | Ucentric Systems, LLC | 978-823-8166 | mi...@ucentric.com | | | --- | This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety | Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. | | Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ | | To cancel your subscription, send mail to: | majord...@ieee.org | with the single line: | unsubscribe emc-pstc | | For help, send mail to the list administrators: | Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org | Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net | | For policy questions, send mail to: | Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org | Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org | | All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: | No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old | messages are imported into the new server. | | --- | This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety | Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. | | Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ | | To cancel your subscription, send mail to: | majord...@ieee.org | with the single line: | unsubscribe emc-pstc | | For help, send mail to the list administrators: | Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org | Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net | | For policy questions, send mail to: | Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org | Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org | | All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: | No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald
Re: skinny power cords.
Hello Gary, Sounds like your making a case for the wider adoption of the UK system with fused plugs rated to protect the power cord Nick Rouse - Original Message - From: Gary McInturff gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 5:06 PM Subject: skinny power cords. Fuses and breakers etc, are provided to protect the wiring downstream from these devices. A 15 amp breaker is allowed to have 14 AWG wire attached and run all though my house, and terminates in a 15 amp rated receptacle - parallel blade with ground pin. Why then can I plug in a computer that has only a 6 or 10 amp rated power cord? Surely, its not because the computer has supplemental fusing at 2 amps or whatever. That 2 amp fuse can't protect the wiring between it and the 15 amp breaker in my garage from prolonged operation at 15 amps. The breaker is completely happy running at that value so the wire just sits there and cooks! One would think that any cord rated less than 15 amps, would have to be terminated in a plug that doesn't mate with the wall outlet, much like a 15 amp connector plugged into a 20 amp outlet. Gary --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: skinny power cords.
Hi Gary: Somewhere in my past, I've heard the rationale for this conundrum. I'm just guessing here. Power cords and similar mains devices are sized based on rated load, and are not sized based on fault-condition load. The requirement should be that, under fault conditions, the device is capable of withstanding the fault until the overcurrent device operates without igniting or otherwise causing a hazard. It can get hot; indeed, it can exceed rated temperature under the fault, and it can fail, but it should not ignite or otherwise cause a hazardous condition. A power cord is supposed to be sufficiently robust as to withstand the rigors of use. There are different degrees of robustness according to use. In other words, the power cord itself is not expected to fail under normal conditions of use. So, the power cord should only be subject to load faults. Since the load is protected against faults, the fault-protection in the load also provides fault-protection for the power cord. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: EFT Failures..Update!
Excuse a slightly peripheral question. I always called it (an oily sort of brownish paper) Fish paper. I assumed the name came from the use of fish oil to prepare it in the 1800's. I see you are referring to it (is it the same thing?) as fische paper. Is that what it is sold as? Was it invented by Mr. Frederick Fische? How about a musical variant - Phish paper. :) Jack Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Phone: 716 442 3909 Fax: 716 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - Original Message - From: Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:14 PM Subject: Re: EFT Failures..Update! | | Discussion forum problems are challenging problems to | say the least. | | One thing you might want to try is to add a ground plane | into the bottom of the case with a piece of copper plate | or foil. Connect the plate (or foil) to the return side of the | power leads. Then, if you've got some fische paper (heck | even masking tape and several sheets of printer paper will | work in a moment of crisis), use that to insulate the plate | from the bottom of the board. And get the plate as close | as possible to the bottom of the board. | | But to really understand what's going on, you'd probably | have to set up something with current probes or differential | probes to follow the effect of the pulse. | | Most likely what's happening is the power supply is | acting as the source of the pulse out to your product | (obvious but bear with me) and the power leads and | your product are simply acting as an arm of a distorted | dipole, i.e., low impedance source (the power supply), | high impedance end of the arm (your product). | | Think for a moment of the power supply is the source | of a dipole and the two cables from it, the ac input cord | and the power output cord are the arms of a dipole. | | You're whole effort here is to disrupt that construction. | | Thus, it is possible that by adding ferrites to the product | end of the power leads, you could actually enhance this | dipole effect. This is possibly why adding ferrites to the | power cord to your product may not be working. In | other words, the ferrite increases the impedance of | the end of the dipole arm (your product) even higher. | | This has been demonstrated time and again by | Doug Smith in his many demonstrations. | | The effect of the plate *hopefully* disrupts this | pseudo-dipole construction. It may, it may not. | | The position of ferrites can be important. If you're | in a real bind, then you might want to simply load up | the entire construction with ferrites all over the place | to see if that works. Start removing ferrites until you | get a minimal setup that works and go from there. | The positions of the remaining ferrites in a working | setup can sometimes telll you what's going on in | a setup that's modelled after a dipole. | | Good luck ... | | Regards, Doug McKean | | | | --- | This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety | Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. | | Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ | | To cancel your subscription, send mail to: | majord...@ieee.org | with the single line: | unsubscribe emc-pstc | | For help, send mail to the list administrators: | Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org | Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net | | For policy questions, send mail to: | Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org | Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org | | All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: | No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. | --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Shrunk-die power MOSFET's and compliance
Well for example, I have just finished specifying what compliance re-testing I am going to need to do on 4 different products whose power conversion stages use IRF630's, IRF740's, IRF840's, and RFP50N06's, but the list goes on and on. If you are using power FET's in power electronics, chances are they have changed or will soon. The main manufacturers that come to mind are IR, Fairchild/Harris, Philips, and STM-Thomson. Not all have forced changes to the shrunk-die version - some have agreed to keep the old style available - and all have at least added a suffix to their markings on the devices so you can tell if it's the new revision die or old. In one case, however, we received modified parts with no markings differentiating them from the old rev parts, for almost a year with no communication from the mfr telling us about the change. We found out through other channels and then contacted them. They seem to be behaving as if fundamental changes to the performance and specifications of the part are none of our business. I am re-doing radiated and conducted emissions, some thermal testing, and a bunch of functional testing and looking at waveforms on 4 different products affected by this change. Those are only the products I am responsible for - as a company we're doing functional testing and possibly compliance re-testing on many more products. This is not a simple component substitution exercise, if your products are or use power electronics! I would advise everyone potentially affected to have your procurement department look into this. Regards, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager, Engineering Services Xantrex Technology Inc. Mobile Power web: www.xantrex.com http://www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest. -Original Message- From: Michael Mertinooke [mailto:mertino...@skyskan.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 6:45 AM To: 'Jim Eichner' Subject: RE: Shrunk-die power MOSFET's and compliance Jim; I suspect that a lot of us just don't have time to investigate the latest subtleties involved in producing a new chip design sold under an old component part number. We order by manufacturer part number and when the order comes in we count the pieces and throw it in the stockroom. If there are reliability problems, most companies take a month or so for the news to get back from Field Service. Then the issue goes to Manufacturing because we know the design worked perfectly for X years, so Manufacturing must have built 'em wrong, or the PC house had a bad batch of boards or somebody screwed up the wave solder machine again or the stockroom was sweeping parts off the floor and dumping them back in the bins ... or a hundred other cockups that happen every day. By the time somebody finally figures out that the FETs are not performing as they should, it could be a year after the parts first hit the receiving dock. Instead of a general reference, perhaps you can provide a few part numbers? If I see such a list and my FETs are on it, then I sure as hell am going to look into it immediately! Thanks. Mike Mertinooke --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: NEC Question
Hi Mike, I don't know if this will help but, CFR 29 Section 1910.399 subpart S.. is where the NRTL'S hang their hats on this issue. Good Luck Joe Josiah P. Burch Compliance Engineer II Andover Controls Corporation 300 Brickstone Square Andover,Ma 01810 (978)-470-0555 x335 (978)-470-3615 Fax -Original Message- From: Mike Morrow [SMTP:mi...@ucentric.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:52 AM To: EMC Society Subject: NEC Question Can someone point me to a section in the NEC that says a piece of RESIDENTIAL computer equipment must be listed (NEC definition). Article 645 which requires a listed piece of equipment appears to apply to a computer room and not a residence. Basically I've been asked where its says a piece of computer equipment must listed/approved by a NRTL. I'm ignoring the obvious liability implications should someone get injured for the purposes of this question.. Any help is appreciated. Mike Morrow Senior Compliance Engineer Ucentric Systems, LLC 978-823-8166 mi...@ucentric.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
skinny power cords.
Gary, It was always my understanding that house fuses/breakers were to protect all the upstream stuff, e.g. service entry box, external transformers etc. They cannot realistically protect downstream stuff, as they have no knowledge of how much current is too much for a given appliance. However, the house wiring should be able to carry a current up to that of the fuse or CB rating. ITE manufacturers must protect their own product by the use of incoming fuses, CBs, etc. A fixed line cord is part of the product. Hence, the product fuse must blow before a skinny line cord on the product would melt down. For example, suppose a device is rated to draw 2.5A (electric razor?) and uses a skinny line cord at that rating. If an internal fault draws 14A, it might melt down the cord or the device, but it should not harm house wiring rated up to 15A. Of course, I have been wrong before. I think it was 1961. George -- Forwarded by George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark on 10/24/2001 02:31 PM --- Gary McInturff gary.mcinturff%worldwidepackets@interlock.lexmark.com on 10/24/2001 12:06:00 PM Please respond to Gary McInturff gary.mcinturff%worldwidepackets@interlock.lexmark.com To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: skinny power cords. Fuses and breakers etc, are provided to protect the wiring downstream from these devices. A 15 amp breaker is allowed to have 14 AWG wire attached and run all though my house, and terminates in a 15 amp rated receptacle - parallel blade with ground pin. Why then can I plug in a computer that has only a 6 or 10 amp rated power cord? Surely, its not because the computer has supplemental fusing at 2 amps or whatever. That 2 amp fuse can't protect the wiring between it and the 15 amp breaker in my garage from prolonged operation at 15 amps. The breaker is completely happy running at that value so the wire just sits there and cooks! One would think that any cord rated less than 15 amps, would have to be terminated in a plug that doesn't mate with the wall outlet, much like a 15 amp connector plugged into a 20 amp outlet. Gary --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EFT Failures..Update!
I agree with Paul's take. One of the trees in the forest is keyboards. Do you have any keyboards attached to the DUT? I have personally seen an instance where EFT was coupling to a keyboard cable and causing all sorts of wierd effects. I thought it was our design's fault, so I tried filtering, ferrites ... at our end of the keyboard cable. No use. It wasn't until I got to the test lab that they suggested a ferrite at the keyboard end of the cable. problem solved. Apparantly the keyboard itself was being upset and was sending garbage instructions to our unit. The keyboard was CE markedbut you never know. -Original Message- From: Hare, Paul [SMTP:ph...@pirus.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:25 AM To: 'alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: EFT Failures..Update! Alex, make sure you investigate whether or not energy is coupling to other cables of the EUT and causing problems. In other words, try to reduce the system (remove cables) and see if the EFT failures persist. If you can't remove a cable due to functionality, place ferrites on it instead (near the EUT). You may be surprised how a failure manifests itself. Sometimes you've got to back up and take a look at the forest... :) Good luck... Paul Hare e: ph...@pirus.com Compliance Engineer w: 978.206.9179 Pirus Networks f: 978.206.9199 43 Nagog Park c: 508.450.0376 Acton, MA 01720 i: www.pirus.com -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:04 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: SV: EFT Failures..Update! Alex, What happened during the burst test ? Did the EUT break down or did you only have minor disturbances/faults during the test ? I assume that you know that EFT/bursts usually is a performance criteria B test, which means that temporary faults are accepted during the test, as long that the EUT is self-recoverable after the test. Amund -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne av Alex McNeil Sendt: 23. oktober 2001 10:44 Til: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Emne: EFT Failures..Update! Hi Group, THANKS for your very much appreciated responses!! I was in panic mode!! I thought it would be appropriate to let you know the status. My product is a small all plastic enclosure Point if Sale (POS) Class III terminal. It has an external SMPS, Class II, no earth, supplying SELV, 12Vdc 1.5A to my product. The power supply works OK with some of our other products, for EMC. The problem is with my product. I solved the problem at the test house by wrapping a few turns of the DC PSU cable through a Large Ferrite Clamp at the Product input (it did not work so well at the PSU I/P nor O/P). The fix cannot be considered final due to obvious reasons. I am now at my Lab, now the serious diagnostics begin. I have been trying various quick fixes to no avail i.e. Caps, TVS, MOV etc. If you have any further comments feel free to email me. THANKS again to all those who responded with their thoughts. I can tell you they were wide and varied just as you would expect to trying to resolve an EMC problem over the NET!! Best Regards alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil Sent: 22 October 2001 11:23 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:EFT Failures..Help! Hi Guys, I am at an EMC test centre today and tomorrow. Unfortunately, my product failed EFT testing on the AC power port at 1KV. This is for various combinations of Line, Neutral and Earth (L, N, E, LN, LE, NE and LNE) My product is Class II, no Earth. It is supplied by an external power supply. This supplies SELV to my product. The power supply manufacturer has stated that his power supply meets EN61000-4-4 for 2KV and has emailed me this report to verify this. Has anyone got a quick solution to my problem so that I can implement here at the EMC test house? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher:
Re: skinny power cords.
I am NOT an expert in this field so I could likely stand some educating but the following seem to me to be common sense: 1) Household circuit breakers protect household wiring - only. They prevent wiring damage and fires. There is no practical way to provide breakers for every different kind of load. 2) I extrapolate your logic to imply that every appliance, including low power consumers such as a clock radios, would be forced to use AWG 12 power cords. 3) If an appliance such as a computer does have an internal fuse between power cord and power supply such that any short in the appliance will draw current through the fuse, why would the power cord have to be rated at any higher ampacity than the fuse itself, other than a reasonable safety margin? In other words, what is wrong with using a 6 or 10 Amp rated power cord with a device fused at 2 Amps, to use your example? -- From: Gary McInturff gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: skinny power cords. Date: Wed, Oct 24, 2001, 11:06 AM Fuses and breakers etc, are provided to protect the wiring downstream from these devices. A 15 amp breaker is allowed to have 14 AWG wire attached and run all though my house, and terminates in a 15 amp rated receptacle - parallel blade with ground pin. Why then can I plug in a computer that has only a 6 or 10 amp rated power cord? Surely, its not because the computer has supplemental fusing at 2 amps or whatever. That 2 amp fuse can't protect the wiring between it and the 15 amp breaker in my garage from prolonged operation at 15 amps. The breaker is completely happy running at that value so the wire just sits there and cooks! One would think that any cord rated less than 15 amps, would have to be terminated in a plug that doesn't mate with the wall outlet, much like a 15 amp connector plugged into a 20 amp outlet. Gary --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 10/24/2001 02:05 PM Hi Peter, My understanding of 60950 is that distance through insulation applies here (0.4mm). I have never had this issue with CSA. Regards Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il on 10/24/2001 09:38:19 AM Please respond to Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il To: \EMC-PSTC (E-mail)\ emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors Dear All, I have submitted an ac input to dc output switching power supply for NRTL approval. One deviation is that the primary ac insulated capacitor is too close to the earthed chassis and that the insulation cannot be relied to provide the required basic insulation. 1. What is the group's opinion regarding this point? I have personally seen many Listed/Recognized units with clearance distance less than 2.0 mm to the earthed chassis without any additional insulation to provide the required insulation. In fact, I am holding a switching power supply by a reputable manufacturer with only approx. 0.7 mm between the primary and earthed chassis. This power supply is UL Recognized and TUV approved. 2. There is a UL Pag 156002 regarding this issue, but it seems that some NRTL engineers are using their own judgement and approving units at their own discretion. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: NEC Question
Hi Mike: Can someone point me to a section in the NEC that says a piece of RESIDENTIAL computer equipment must be listed (NEC definition). Article 645 which requires a listed piece of equipment appears to apply to a computer room and not a residence. In terms of the NEC, a computer is an appliance. (Article 100, definitions.) Also see the definition for utilization equipment. An appliance is also an equipment. (Article 100, definitions.) Article 110-2 requires equipment to be approved. Approved means acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction. (Article 100, definitions.) Article 90-7 states that ...equipment need not be inspected at the time of installation... if the equipment has been listed... Listed is defined in Article 100. So, the NEC says that a residential computer must be Listed. Basically I've been asked where its says a piece of computer equipment must listed/approved by a NRTL. I'm ignoring the obvious liability implications should someone get injured for the purposes of this question.. The NEC does not require listing by a NRTL. (NRTL is an OSHA concept, not a NEC concept.) The acceptable certification houses are defined by the authority having jurisdiction (the government that is enforcing the code, i.e, the city, county, or state). Many NRTLs are also accepted by all jurisdictions, but not necessarily so. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Class Designation under the RTTE directive
Dear Group, I just was reading the a list to assist one in choosing one's class designation under the RTTE directive at http://www.europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/rtte/listeq.htm http://www.europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/rtte/listeq.htm and I noticed that there are items under Class 1 that I never saw before (i.e. items 19 to 24) It just so happens that item 20 applies to me and relieves me of having to follow the notification period. People in the security business may want to look at the page! Up until now we had always classified ourselves as Class 2.7 (SRD). My question is (out of idle curiosity) does anyone know when items 19 to 24 were added. The page has no indications of when it was updated but I have a printed copy from last November showing a much shorter list. Best Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approval Services Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: harr...@dscltd.com mailto:harr...@dscltd.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Too small to print Fcc Verification label!!!
Bonjour de Montreal, It all depends of the procedure you used for your product : If it is a Class B digital device using the, now obsolete, certification process, you have to put at a minimum the FCC ID of your granted certificate. The only way it could be used now is by the mean of a permissive change procedure. If it is a Class B digital device using the Declaration of Conformity (DOC) procedure, then at a minimum the FCC logo (see attachment) has to be on the device, all other information in the user’s manual. If it is a Class A digital device, using a verification procedure, this is where you have a problem because you don’t have an FCC ID and the FCC logo is reserved to the DOCs, my suggestion in that case would be to state in writing, FCC Class A and put all the rest of the information in the user’s manual. Hope this help, Best regards, == Benoit Nadeau, ing., M.ing. (P.Eng., M.Eng) Gerant du Groupe Conformite (Conformity Group Manager) Matrox == Tel : (514) 822-6000 (2475) Fax : (514) 822-6275 mailto:bnad...@matrox.com http://www.matrox.com == President / Chairman 2001 IEEE International Symposium on Electromagnetic Compatibility mailto:bnad...@ieee.org http://www.2001emcmtl.org -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of upu...@samsung.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 05:17 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; upu...@samsung.co.kr Subject: Too small to print Fcc Verification label!!! Hi EMC members. I have a question about Fcc Label. This model is too small to insert Fcc verification statement on device. This is Compactflash memory card. I read Fcc Part 15. rules but I couldn't understand meaning. On Section 15.19 said alternatively,shall be placed on the container in which the devide is marketed.However,the FCC identifier or the unique identifier,as appropriate must be displayed on the device. I confuse from 'However...' In conclusion,I'd like to know what can I do in case device is too small to print Fcc verification statement on device. Can I print only Fcc character on label? If you have any idea,mail to me. Best regards. Tommy --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. attachment: FCC_logo.jpg
AW: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors
Peter, my experience is, that you will not receive a statement from the manufacturer of the capacitor about the foil around the cap. This would be required to proof, that it is good for basic insulation. Our company (we are a GS-mark certification body) does not accept the foil around a capacitor as basic insulation without proof. My experience with UL is, that UL is doing the same. The only way to accept the insulation of the capacitor would be to get a written statement from the capacitor manufacturer about the foil and describe this insulation in the list of safety critical components. With best regards Horst -Urspr?ngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Oktober 2001 15:38 An: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Betreff: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors Dear All, I have submitted an ac input to dc output switching power supply for NRTL approval. One deviation is that the primary ac insulated capacitor is too close to the earthed chassis and that the insulation cannot be relied to provide the required basic insulation. 1. What is the group's opinion regarding this point? I have personally seen many Listed/Recognized units with clearance distance less than 2.0 mm to the earthed chassis without any additional insulation to provide the required insulation. In fact, I am holding a switching power supply by a reputable manufacturer with only approx. 0.7 mm between the primary and earthed chassis. This power supply is UL Recognized and TUV approved. 2. There is a UL Pag 156002 regarding this issue, but it seems that some NRTL engineers are using their own judgement and approving units at their own discretion. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors
I asked a similar question a couple of years ago, and was told that the bodies of plastic encapsulated Y1 capacitors are considered by CENELEC to be reinforced insulation, except in the vicinity of the leads. I don't know if this extends to types of X and Y caps other than Y1. Hope this is some help, Regards, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager, Engineering Services Xantrex Technology Inc. Mobile Power web: www.xantrex.com http://www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. I know because he talks to me. Honest. -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 6:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors Dear All, I have submitted an ac input to dc output switching power supply for NRTL approval. One deviation is that the primary ac insulated capacitor is too close to the earthed chassis and that the insulation cannot be relied to provide the required basic insulation. 1. What is the group's opinion regarding this point? I have personally seen many Listed/Recognized units with clearance distance less than 2.0 mm to the earthed chassis without any additional insulation to provide the required insulation. In fact, I am holding a switching power supply by a reputable manufacturer with only approx. 0.7 mm between the primary and earthed chassis. This power supply is UL Recognized and TUV approved. 2. There is a UL Pag 156002 regarding this issue, but it seems that some NRTL engineers are using their own judgement and approving units at their own discretion. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Tantalum Capacitors
Hi all, Some companies make through-hole polarized caps which cannot be loaded backwards; they are 3 pin in-line parts that are assigned +/-/+. Does anyone make SM parts that have the same attribute of not capable of being loaded backwards? Also where may I find reliability data for the so called solid electrolytic capacitors as SANYO OS-CON or POSCAP. -Liviu Dinulescu Teradyne Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: NEC Question
Mike, regardless of what the NEC says, and it is not very clear in this regard, it is the state, county and city electrical codes and other local regulations that apply. Many jurisdictions have deviations from the NEC and/or have other regulations that require electrical equipment sold to the general public be Listed. I know of the following locations: Virginia, North Carolina, Los Angeles, Counties of Los Angeles and Orange, and San Francisco. I have also heard but cannot confirm that other locations include Oregon, Washington, New York city and Chicago. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics -Original Message- From: Mike Morrow [mailto:mi...@ucentric.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:52 AM To: EMC Society Subject: NEC Question Can someone point me to a section in the NEC that says a piece of RESIDENTIAL computer equipment must be listed (NEC definition). Article 645 which requires a listed piece of equipment appears to apply to a computer room and not a residence. Basically I've been asked where its says a piece of computer equipment must listed/approved by a NRTL. I'm ignoring the obvious liability implications should someone get injured for the purposes of this question.. Any help is appreciated. Mike Morrow Senior Compliance Engineer Ucentric Systems, LLC 978-823-8166 mi...@ucentric.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
skinny power cords.
Fuses and breakers etc, are provided to protect the wiring downstream from these devices. A 15 amp breaker is allowed to have 14 AWG wire attached and run all though my house, and terminates in a 15 amp rated receptacle - parallel blade with ground pin. Why then can I plug in a computer that has only a 6 or 10 amp rated power cord? Surely, its not because the computer has supplemental fusing at 2 amps or whatever. That 2 amp fuse can't protect the wiring between it and the 15 amp breaker in my garage from prolonged operation at 15 amps. The breaker is completely happy running at that value so the wire just sits there and cooks! One would think that any cord rated less than 15 amps, would have to be terminated in a plug that doesn't mate with the wall outlet, much like a 15 amp connector plugged into a 20 amp outlet. Gary --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
NEC Question
Can someone point me to a section in the NEC that says a piece of RESIDENTIAL computer equipment must be listed (NEC definition). Article 645 which requires a listed piece of equipment appears to apply to a computer room and not a residence. Basically I've been asked where its says a piece of computer equipment must listed/approved by a NRTL. I'm ignoring the obvious liability implications should someone get injured for the purposes of this question.. Any help is appreciated. Mike Morrow Senior Compliance Engineer Ucentric Systems, LLC 978-823-8166 mi...@ucentric.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors
Our company manufactures switching power supplies to EN60950 and EN60601-1 standards, and our safety group looks for these issues. In fact, I got 'bit' by that same problem last week. Spacing was OK when the PWB was mounted in the chassis, but when the cover was installed, it failed primary-ground spacing. I had to fix it. As far as the sample power supplies you have: - What safety standard does the manufacturer claim? - What are the installation instructions, or 'conditions of acceptability'? - Did they look as if they had been modified or installed in another chassis assembly after it was manufactured? On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:38:19 +0200, Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il wrote: I have submitted an ac input to dc output switching power supply for NRTL approval. One deviation is that the primary ac insulated capacitor is too close to the earthed chassis and that the insulation cannot be relied to provide the required basic insulation. 1. What is the group's opinion regarding this point? I have personally seen many Listed/Recognized units with clearance distance less than 2.0 mm to the earthed chassis without any additional insulation to provide the required insulation. In fact, I am holding a switching power supply by a reputable manufacturer with only approx. 0.7 mm between the primary and earthed chassis. This power supply is UL Recognized and TUV approved. 2. There is a UL Pag 156002 regarding this issue, but it seems that some NRTL engineers are using their own judgement and approving units at their own discretion. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: TNV Circuits
It's over on Bizarre Street. At 10:33 AM 10/24/2001 , Cortland Richmond wrote: telephone products destroyed by all sorts of bazaar events Where IS that bazaar? (grin) Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. - British Prime Minister Tony Blair pointed to the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and said the Taliban regime had no moral inhibition on slaughtering innocent people. There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror, he said. There is just a choice: Defeat it or be defeated by it and defeat it we must. Whatever the dangers of the action we take, the dangers of inaction are far, far greater, he said. Bill Owsley, ows...@cisco.com 919) 392-8341 Compliance Engineer Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road POB 14987 RTP. NC. 27709 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EFT Failures..Update!
Alex, make sure you investigate whether or not energy is coupling to other cables of the EUT and causing problems. In other words, try to reduce the system (remove cables) and see if the EFT failures persist. If you can't remove a cable due to functionality, place ferrites on it instead (near the EUT). You may be surprised how a failure manifests itself. Sometimes you've got to back up and take a look at the forest... :) Good luck... Paul Hare e: ph...@pirus.com Compliance Engineer w: 978.206.9179 Pirus Networks f: 978.206.9199 43 Nagog Park c: 508.450.0376 Acton, MA 01720 i: www.pirus.com -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:04 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: SV: EFT Failures..Update! Alex, What happened during the burst test ? Did the EUT break down or did you only have minor disturbances/faults during the test ? I assume that you know that EFT/bursts usually is a performance criteria B test, which means that temporary faults are accepted during the test, as long that the EUT is self-recoverable after the test. Amund -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne av Alex McNeil Sendt: 23. oktober 2001 10:44 Til: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Emne: EFT Failures..Update! Hi Group, THANKS for your very much appreciated responses!! I was in panic mode!! I thought it would be appropriate to let you know the status. My product is a small all plastic enclosure Point if Sale (POS) Class III terminal. It has an external SMPS, Class II, no earth, supplying SELV, 12Vdc 1.5A to my product. The power supply works OK with some of our other products, for EMC. The problem is with my product. I solved the problem at the test house by wrapping a few turns of the DC PSU cable through a Large Ferrite Clamp at the Product input (it did not work so well at the PSU I/P nor O/P). The fix cannot be considered final due to obvious reasons. I am now at my Lab, now the serious diagnostics begin. I have been trying various quick fixes to no avail i.e. Caps, TVS, MOV etc. If you have any further comments feel free to email me. THANKS again to all those who responded with their thoughts. I can tell you they were wide and varied just as you would expect to trying to resolve an EMC problem over the NET!! Best Regards alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil Sent: 22 October 2001 11:23 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EFT Failures..Help! Hi Guys, I am at an EMC test centre today and tomorrow. Unfortunately, my product failed EFT testing on the AC power port at 1KV. This is for various combinations of Line, Neutral and Earth (L, N, E, LN, LE, NE and LNE) My product is Class II, no Earth. It is supplied by an external power supply. This supplies SELV to my product. The power supply manufacturer has stated that his power supply meets EN61000-4-4 for 2KV and has emailed me this report to verify this. Has anyone got a quick solution to my problem so that I can implement here at the EMC test house? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: TNV Circuits
telephone products destroyed by all sorts of bazaar events Where IS that bazaar? (grin) Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors
Dear All, I have submitted an ac input to dc output switching power supply for NRTL approval. One deviation is that the primary ac insulated capacitor is too close to the earthed chassis and that the insulation cannot be relied to provide the required basic insulation. 1. What is the group's opinion regarding this point? I have personally seen many Listed/Recognized units with clearance distance less than 2.0 mm to the earthed chassis without any additional insulation to provide the required insulation. In fact, I am holding a switching power supply by a reputable manufacturer with only approx. 0.7 mm between the primary and earthed chassis. This power supply is UL Recognized and TUV approved. 2. There is a UL Pag 156002 regarding this issue, but it seems that some NRTL engineers are using their own judgement and approving units at their own discretion. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: TNV Circuits
Thanks Joe - that was the very point that I was trying to make - and that is why TNV is treated as hazardous. -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of j...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:44 PM To: gkerv...@eu-link.com; phopk...@ga.conklincorp.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: TNV Circuits In a message dated 10/23/01, Gregg Kervill writes: Have lines ever been struck by Lightning? One of my clients had a cupboard full of telephone products destroyed by all sorts of bazaar events - like the temporary three phase power line to a factory that fell' across domestic phone lines Anything outside must be considered hazardous and if that hazard is limited to +_200 then we are VERY lucky. Hi Gregg: UL 60950 makes a distinction between working voltages that are present all the time (such as span power) and transient overvoltages caused by lightning and power cross. Both types of situations are addressed in the standard, but they are treated differently, as they should be. Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. http://www.randolph-telecom.com
Standards applicable to crane equipment
Dear all, The product concerned is a metal box located on the (metal) roller bridge of a crane and controls the movement of that bridge. It is powered by min. 48Vac and receives commands from an operator with a battery powered hand-held radio transmitter command box. The 48V ac power supply is connected to the metal frame of the roller bridge. The crane nor roller bridge are connected to ground by means of a fixed connection. All additional metal parts are connected to the fixed or moving part of the crane. Questions: 1.- What standards and regulations are applicable to both products for EMC, Safety and Radio, for US and EU market? 2.- Can the metal frame be considered as reliably connected to PE? Regards, Kris Carpentier --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Too small to print Fcc Verification label!!!
Hi EMC members. I have a question about Fcc Label. This model is too small to insert Fcc verification statement on device. This is Compactflash memory card. I read Fcc Part 15. rules but I couldn't understand meaning. On Section 15.19 said "alternatively,shall be placed on the container in which the devide is marketed.However,the FCC identifier or the unique identifier,as appropriate must be displayed on the device." I confuse from 'However...' In conclusion,I'd like to know what can I do in case device is too small to print Fcc verification statement on device. Can I print only Fcc character on label? If you have any idea,mail to me. Best regards. Tommy --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
SV: EFT Failures..Update!
Alex, What happened during the burst test ? Did the EUT break down or did you only have minor disturbances/faults during the test ? I assume that you know that EFT/bursts usually is a performance criteria B test, which means that temporary faults are accepted during the test, as long that the EUT is self-recoverable after the test. Amund -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne av Alex McNeil Sendt: 23. oktober 2001 10:44 Til: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Emne: EFT Failures..Update! Hi Group, THANKS for your very much appreciated responses!! I was in panic mode!! I thought it would be appropriate to let you know the status. My product is a small all plastic enclosure Point if Sale (POS) Class III terminal. It has an external SMPS, Class II, no earth, supplying SELV, 12Vdc 1.5A to my product. The power supply works OK with some of our other products, for EMC. The problem is with my product. I solved the problem at the test house by wrapping a few turns of the DC PSU cable through a Large Ferrite Clamp at the Product input (it did not work so well at the PSU I/P nor O/P). The fix cannot be considered final due to obvious reasons. I am now at my Lab, now the serious diagnostics begin. I have been trying various quick fixes to no avail i.e. Caps, TVS, MOV etc. If you have any further comments feel free to email me. THANKS again to all those who responded with their thoughts. I can tell you they were wide and varied just as you would expect to trying to resolve an EMC problem over the NET!! Best Regards alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil Sent: 22 October 2001 11:23 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EFT Failures..Help! Hi Guys, I am at an EMC test centre today and tomorrow. Unfortunately, my product failed EFT testing on the AC power port at 1KV. This is for various combinations of Line, Neutral and Earth (L, N, E, LN, LE, NE and LNE) My product is Class II, no Earth. It is supplied by an external power supply. This supplies SELV to my product. The power supply manufacturer has stated that his power supply meets EN61000-4-4 for 2KV and has emailed me this report to verify this. Has anyone got a quick solution to my problem so that I can implement here at the EMC test house? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
SV: EMC testing above 1GHz
Hi Cecil, You're coming up with a good question, but could you be more precise what you are looking for ? Limits? EUT configuration ? Measurement equipment? . You name it! EMC above 1GHz could fill serveral pages Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Pa vegne av cecil.gitt...@kodak.com Sendt: 23. oktober 2001 18:36 Til: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Emne: EMC testing above 1GHz Viktighet: Hoy From: Cecil A. Gittens What are the EMC requirements for testing above 1 GHz in an Open Area test site? Cecil --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: TNV Circuits
In a message dated 10/23/01, Gregg Kervill writes: Have lines ever been struck by Lightning? One of my clients had a cupboard full of telephone products destroyed by all sorts of bazaar events - like the temporary three phase power line to a factory that fell' across domestic phone lines Anything outside must be considered hazardous and if that hazard is limited to +_200 then we are VERY lucky. Hi Gregg: UL 60950 makes a distinction between working voltages that are present all the time (such as span power) and transient overvoltages caused by lightning and power cross. Both types of situations are addressed in the standard, but they are treated differently, as they should be. Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. http://www.randolph-telecom.com
RE: TNV Circuits
Have lines ever been struck by Lightning? One of my clients had a cupboard full of telephone products destroyed by all sorts of bazaar events - like the temporary three phase power line to a factory that fell' across domestic phone lines Anything outside must be considered hazardous and if that hazard is limited to +_200 then we are VERY lucky. The standards are for guidance - sometimes it is wise to exceed their requirements. How many designers use 8mm for Reinforced Insulation and then supply product to Colorado? Gregg -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of j...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 12:37 PM To: phopk...@ga.conklincorp.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: TNV Circuits In a message dated 10/23/01, Perry Hopkins writes: My question is; by definition, shouldn't the DSL circuits fall under the TNV-3 and not Hazardous Voltage secondary circuit. The major difference is when you are determining the creepage and clearance distances. At TNV-3 you are allowed basic insulation between TNV-3 circuits and SELV circuits but at the Haz Voltage Reinforced insulation is required. Hi Perry: If you have the reported 190 VDC span powering on your DSL lines, you may well be forced into the hazardous voltage category. In clause 2.3.1(b), UL 60950 limits TNV voltages to 60 VDC, with voltages up to 120 VDC allowed if current limiting is included. Clause 3.5.3 allows central supply voltages up to 80 VDC to be declared TNV-2 under certain circumstances. However, voltages of 190 VDC exceed any definitions of TNV that I am aware of. The issue of span powering and the requisite insulation requirements created quite a commotion a year or two ago when the Second Edition of UL 1950 was about to become mandatory. As written, the Second Edition would have rendered noncompliant a wide range of T1 equipment that was widely deployed and still in production. As I recall, the effort to bring this to UL's attention was led by Adtran. I seem to recall seeing a document that was worked out between the industry and UL to address the legacy products that used high voltage span powering. I do not recall the details, but if it would be helpful I can look into it for you. I do not know whether the agreement that was reached for these legacy products could be applied to your situation. Joe Randolph Telecom Design Consultant Randolph Telecom, Inc. http://www.randolph-telecom.com
RE: Shrunk-die power MOSFET's and compliance
No takers? I haven't had any responses, but I can't believe that ins't an issue for many of you. The switch-mode power supplies used in almost all equipment these days are the main users of these FET's, and the FET design change does effect compliance. Have none of you run into this issue? Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager, Engineering Services Xantrex Technology Inc. Mobile Power phone: (604) 422-2546 fax: (604) 420-1591 e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com -Original Message- From: Jim Eichner [mailto:jim.eich...@xantrex.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:11 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: Shrunk-die power MOSFET's and compliance I'm curious what others in the compliance community have experienced over the last year or so in regards to re-designed power MOSFET's that the big FET manufacturers are pushing on us. These next generation trench style FET's have smaller dies, resulting in lower on-resistance but higher thermal impedance to their cases, and in lower gate capacitances and faster rise times. At first glance it seems obvious these changes could impact the compliance of power conversion products in the areas of emissions (increase due to faster rise times), susceptibility to surges, and perhaps temperatures (not that agencies care about FET temperatures, but if they're hotter neighbouring components may be too). The FET's involved are some of the highest volume parts these mfr's make (to achieve maximum savings), and are widely used in power electronics. Since most products either are, use, or contain power electronics these days, I'd expect this issue to be affecting almost all of us. I'd be glad to hear of any experiences the forum has had with this issue. Thanks, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager, Engineering Services Xantrex Technology Inc. Mobile Power web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Failure analysis
We are looking for a good failure analysis company in the SF Bay area. Anyone have any leads for companies you've had a positive experience with? Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
SV: EMC testing above 1GHz
Hi Cecil, You're coming up with a good question, but could you be more precise what you are looking for ? Limits? EUT configuration ? Measurement equipment? . You name it! EMC above 1GHz could fill serveral pages Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Pa vegne av cecil.gitt...@kodak.com Sendt: 23. oktober 2001 18:36 Til: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Emne: EMC testing above 1GHz Viktighet: Hoy From: Cecil A. Gittens What are the EMC requirements for testing above 1 GHz in an Open Area test site? Cecil --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
