RE: CE directive
All, As I read this document, I don't come up with the concept of a 3 year warrantee on the product. What I see is that the plaintiff (the person injured by the product) has 3 years from the time they figure out whose product it was that injured them to make their claim for damages. This isn't a 3 year warrantee that the product works, or you will fix it. This is a 3 year statute of limitations (as we would say in the US) during which time the person injured by the product must make a claim for compensation. A slightly different situation than - I bought my stereo 2 years ago and it's broken. Please fix it. Or am I missing something here? Ghery Pettit Intel Corporation From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:31 PM To: 'Gerald Tammi'; 'emc-pstc' Subject: RE: CE directive Gerald, You can find all relevant info in Directive 85/374/EEC on : http://europa.eu.int/comm/consumers/policy/developments/prod_liab/pl01_en.pd f The period of warranty is not 2 but 3 years. Regards, kris From: Gerald Tammi [mailto:gera...@zoom.com] Sent: dinsdag 13 mei 2003 22:08 To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: CE directive Has anyone heard of the CE directive which mandates a 2 Year warrantee on consumer products in the EU?? This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
EFT and surge immunity test equipment brands
So far, we have quotes on 2 manufacturer's units for the above tests. I'm looking for more sources. My general impression so far is no surprise - this is an exercise in trade-offs. EMC-Partner TRA-2000: This unit is an all-in-one product with a decent price and has had favourable reviews in this forum. The drawback with an all-in-one is that you can't have one project doing EFT while another project is working on surge, and you lose both capabilities if the unit is out for maintenance or calibration. Also we already have ESD equipment, so we don't need this unit's capabilities in that area. Haefely: Have quotes on the PEFT4010 and the PSURGE4010 with necessary accessories. The total cost of the two units is far higher (+60%), but having separate units mitigates the objections above. So... 1. What other companies should I look at? 2. Anybody want to share any experiences / opinions on the Haefely equipment? Does the extra $$ get us extra performance and reliability? Thanks in advance for your help, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Compliance Engineering Manager Xantrex Technology Inc. phone: (604) 422-2546 fax: (604) 420-1591 e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: CISPR22 amendment
Sergio, The limits are a bit more complex than that. There are two CDV (Committee Draft for Vote) documents out for vote. CISPR/I/65/CDV provides limits and methods of measurement for emissions from 1 GHz to 6 GHz and CISPR/I/66/CDV provides limits and methods of measurement for emissions from 6 GHz to 18 GHz. The only difference between the two documents is the frequency range. Two documents were put out as some national committees were not convinced of the need for limits above 6 GHz. While there is a table that shows limits, the fine print also shows that there are class A limits in addition to class B limits. The class B limits are 54 dB(uV/m) @ 3 meters with an average detector and 74 dB(uV/m) @ 3 meters with a peak detector. The receiver bandwidth is 1 MHz. The class A limits are 6 dB higher. Please note that these limits are identical to the limits in the FCC Rules in the US which have been in effect for over 10 years and have provided an adequate level of protection to the users of the radio spectrum. Also note that in the US we must test to as high as 40 GHz, not just 18 GHz. There is a minor difference in the test method (between ANSI C63.4 and the CISPR proposal) which the US National Committee is trying to resolve. Voting closes on CISPR/I/65/CDV and CISPR/I/66/CDV on June 20, 2003. The US National Committee has already cast a YES vote on both documents and is encouraging other national committees to do the same. I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions about these documents. Ghery S. Pettit Member, CISPR SC I WG4 Intel Corporation From: SERGIO LUIZ DA ROCHA LOURES [mailto:sergioro...@siemens.com.br] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 1:42 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: CISPR22 amendment Hi all, Was anybody informed that CISPR has issued a proposed amendment to CISPR 22 on limits from 1 to 18 GHz for Information Technology Equipment? What I listened about is that for the field strength of radio noise emission in the frequency range 1 - 18 GHz, the proposed amendment contains a limit of 74 dBuV/m measured at a 3 meter distance with a bandwidth of 1 MHz. Isn't this limits too relaxed? Regards Sérgio L. Rocha Loures IC SC QE L - Laboratório de qualificação Quality and Engineering - Supply Chain SIEMENS *Tel: +55 41 341-5898 *Fax: +55 41 341-5058 *sergioro...@siemens.com.br Minha opinião e não necessariamente a do meu empregador. The information contained in this e-mail and in the attached files are for the exclusive use of the addressee herein nominated, and may contain trade secrets, privileged and other confidential information,protected by the applicable laws. In case you are not the right addressee, you are hereby notified that any reviewing, reading, copying and/or distributing of this e-mail's content is strictly prohibited and unauthorized. Please, delete the e-mail's content and notify the sender immediately. Thank you for your cooperation.
Contract NEBS position at RadiSys / Hillsboro, Oregon
Fellow listmembers, We have a significant amount of NEBS and related compliance activities currently scheduled for the balance of this year and into next year. Supporting these activities will likely require me to contract one or more individuals to supplement our current compliance engineering group. The ideal candidate will have significant working experience with NEBS pre-compliance and related ITE/telecom requirements for European and world markets (EN 300 386, ETSI 300 019, etc.). Candidate should have the ability to lead a cross-functional team. Candidates with experience in individual areas of safety, EMC, environmental and reliability will also be considered for this and future openings. Work is currently scheduled to take place in the Portland, Oregon area starting in late May or June. Some travel will be required to support this work. Further details should be available within two weeks. RadiSys is a leading global provider of embedded solutions to the Commercial, Enterprise, and Service Provider Systems markets located in Hillsboro, Oregon, 15 miles west of Portland. Regards, Michael Garretson Compliance Engineering Manager RadiSys Corporation +1 503 615-1515 This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: CE directive
Gerald, You can find all relevant info in Directive 85/374/EEC on : http://europa.eu.int/comm/consumers/policy/developments/prod_liab/pl01_en.pd f The period of warranty is not 2 but 3 years. Regards, kris From: Gerald Tammi [mailto:gera...@zoom.com] Sent: dinsdag 13 mei 2003 22:08 To: 'emc-pstc' Subject: CE directive Has anyone heard of the CE directive which mandates a 2 Year warrantee on consumer products in the EU?? This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EMC/SI course for 2003/2004
thomas and others robert hanson will be teaching a high speed digital design and emi/emc course aug. 19-22 in los angeles, ca. more information is available at: www.americomseminars.com he also does privates. jim hanson :) whitman college - Original Message - From: tkrze...@genius.org.br To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 7:38 AM Subject: EMC/SI course for 2003/2004 Hi, I would like to know where is it possible to attend an EMC or SI course in US or South America. Could someone inform me if Don White Consultants still exist ? Thanks Thomas Krzesaj This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: CE directive
There is the product liability directive, COUNCIL DIRECTIVE of 25 July 1985 on the approximation of the laws, regulations and administrative provisions of the Member States concerning liability for defective products (85/374/EEC) In this directive the manufacturer is held liable for three years Hans Mellberg Engineering Manager BACL 230 Commercial Street Sunnyvale CA 94085 USA 408-732-9162 x38 408-732-9164 fax - Original Message - From: Gerald Tammi gera...@zoom.com To: 'emc-pstc' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 1:08 PM Subject: CE directive Has anyone heard of the CE directive which mandates a 2 Year warrantee on consumer products in the EU?? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
CE directive
Has anyone heard of the CE directive which mandates a 2 Year warrantee on consumer products in the EU?? This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Monotonic and Non-monotonic EUT response in ESD testing
Dear Group,
There has been a discussion in EMC-PSTC on EUT response to different ESD
test voltage levels. Let me explain whay I understand about this
problem:
An EUT may respond monotonic: More stress, never reduces the EUT
response.
or
An EUT may show a non-monotonic response: It fails at a lower level,
but passes at a higher level.
To understand the possible reasons one needs to needs to distinguish
between effects
- of the source (excitation)
- of ESD protection networks
- of the circuit (except the ESD protection networks).
1) Is the excitation function linear and/or monotonic?
==
For contact mode the current waveform is (nearly) proportional to
the voltage. One can reasonable assume that the stress is
proportional
to voltage.
For air discharge mode, the average rise time is shorter for lower
Voltages. So an EUT that responses to rise time (or high frequency,
content or dI/dt) may fail at a lower voltage but pass at a higher
voltage.
Of course, EUTs can react to: Energy, Charge, current, Current
derivative,
Electrostatic fields, High-impedance fields, Magnetic fields, high
frequency ( 1GHz) components of fields etc. So an ESD test is
actually a test to many different physical phenomena.
Looking at each stress parameter of real ESD and of Air discharge ESD we
see:
Energy - proportional to voltage^2 = Monotonic
Charge - proportional to voltage = Monotonic
Electrostatic field - proportional to voltage = Monotonic
Low freq content of the current - Proportional to voltage = Monotonic.
Low freq mag field of current - Proportional to voltage = Monotonic
Rise time of current - in AVERAGE: increases with voltage =
Non-Monotonic
High Freqs of fields - in AVERAGE: decrease with voltage =
Non-Monotonic
Peak current - in AVERAGE: Increases with voltage,
but not linear = non linear,
but
Monotonic
= Conclusion #1: For air discharge, lower levels always need
to be tested, even if the EUT has a monotonic
electrical stress - EUT reaction response.
2) Are ESD protection networks linear or at least monotonic?
a) RC network as low pass filter (or other low pass filters).
They are linear and of course monotonic.
b) Clamping diodes, Varistors etc.
They are non-linear, but monotonic. So they would not cause
a fail at lower levels, but a pass at higher levels.
c) Snap-back devices (e.g., Spark gaps, Some transistor circuits)
They can cause a pass at high levels (snap back occurs) but
a fail at lower levels (not enough excitation to snap-back).
3) Is the circuit response monotonic?
=
In most cases: Yes. Meaning if the stress is increased, the
effect is not reduced. But there are exceptions. I will name
an example:
a) An ESD causes a pulse on a reset line (assume contact mode,
meaning linear excitation). For lower voltages, the pulse
is large enough to reset some ICs, but not all that are on
the reset tree. Consequence: The EUT will get stuck in
an incomplete reset. For higher voltages, the EUT would
perform a full reset that might lead to a pass in the test
(depending on the EUT of course).
= Conclusion #2: For discharges to grounded areas (e.g., chassis)
These discharges usually lead to soft-errors. ESD-
protection circuits are normally either low pass
filters (linear anyway) or overvoltage protection
devices. The later may have snap-back. But discharges
to the chassis usually do not trigger snap-back
devices, as they are there to protect against direct
discharges to PINs.
Non-monotonic responses in contact mode testing
are rare, but they may occur. In most contact
mode testing an increase of the stress (=voltage)
will
not reduce the EUT response.
= Conclusion #3: For discharges to PINs or other non-grounded areas
(e.g.,
an LED, such that the spark hits the board)
snap-back
devices may trigger leading to a non-monotonic EUT
response.
Now to access the overall risk to the customer, one needs to take into
consideration what the risk of low voltage ESD is relative to high
voltage ESD.
Very roughly one can say:
Lets say, an EUT will see 1000 ESDs up to 3000 V a year. Then we
can roughly say: It will see 100 ESDs from 3000 - 6000 V
It will see 10 ESDs from 6000 - 9000V
Re: EMC/SI course for 2003/2004
What kind of course do you need? I have a one week MIL-STD-461 course. I would like to say I presented a seminar at the genius institute :-) Ken Javor on 5/13/03 10:38 AM, tkrze...@genius.org.br at tkrze...@genius.org.br wrote: Hi, I would like to know where is it possible to attend an EMC or SI course in US or South America. Could someone inform me if Don White Consultants still exist ? Thanks Thomas Krzesaj --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc -- Ken Javor EMC Compliance Huntsville, Alabama 256/650-5261 This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Power Adapter LPS
Hi everybody. Thanks very much for your helpful comments. The issue is put to bed now on my end, and I will revert to listening in for a while. We have decided to have the adapter looked at under both regimes for the additional edge, whether strictly needed or not. Angus McGill Cascade Engineering Services, Inc. From: Peter L. Tarver To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: richhug...@aol.com Sent: 5/13/03 7:32 AM Subject: RE: Power Adapter LPS Hi, Richard. From: richhug...@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:47 PM Peter, I presume that you replying here for product use in North America only? Yes. UL1310 being a US standard with close ties to NFPA70, Article 725 and a title of Class 2 Power Units (used to be titled Direct Plug-In Transformer Units). Also, all standards references were to UL standards, leaving the distinct impression of a North American only query. Admittedly, this is sometimes not the case. The original question was about meeting LPS requirements in UL 60950 and Angus McGill asked if having such a supply would help in obtaining UL approval for the IT equipment (i.e. ITE). I've already deleted the original posting, but I believe the question was related to whether or not additional testing of a Listed Class 2 Power Unit to LPS requirements would aid in obtaining certification. If this was the question, the answer is no. If the question was intended to go beyond this, then, certainly, the issues you mention and many others, still need review. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: Peter L. Tarver Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 2:40 PM Angus Doug - Even though 1310 power supplies may only comply with Basic Insulation (per UL60950), they have the bejeebers tested out of them. UL1310 emphasizes testing over construction, whereas UL60950 emphasizes the contrary. Since a UL1310 power supply must meet the requirements for NEC Class 2 power sources, there is no need for any additional testing to demonstrate compliance with LPS requirements in UL60950. The LPS requirements are derived from (though somewhat less stringent than) NEC Class 2 requirements. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: New EU Member States
I'm not sure if the official EU language of Cyprus includes Turkish just yet as that is the main dispute between EC and Turkey. The Turkish occupied territory of Cyprus, which is not included in the EC decision, is the part where Turkish is spoken. In the un-occupied part, Cyprus, Greek is spoken. Hans Mellberg Engineering Manager From: richwo...@tycoint.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 10:05 AM Subject: New EU Member States I understand that the following states will enter the EU in May 2004. I have listed what I understand to be the ISO 2-letter country codes and official languages of these states, but I am seeking confirmation of the accuracy of this information. Under the RTTE Directive, a DoC in the national language must be included with the equipment. However, what is not clear to me concerning Malta, for example, is if the DoC must be in both Maltese and English or in at least one of those languages. Comments? Czech Republic (CZ), Czech Hungary (HU), Hungarian Poland (PL), Polish Slovak Republic (SK), Slovak Slovenia (SI), Slovene Estonia (EE), Estonian Latvia (LV), Latvian Lithuania (LT), Lithuanian Cyprus (CY), Greek and Turkish Malta (MT), Maltese and English Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
required power cord markings
Hello Group, I have a detachable AC power cord proposed for shipment to Europe. It has VDE markings which I take to be a German safety approval, but no CE mark. Must it have the CE mark for shipment to Europe? The ITE equipment that it ships with is CE marked. Thanks in advance George Stults WatchGuard Technologies Inc.
RE: ESD failure
It quite often does not need a 3 kV suppression device. ESD can couple by radiation within the EUT and the radiated volts that are actually coupled is much much lower than the injected pulse such that the higher 8 kV can trigger a lower voltage suppression device (say a 20 volt signal line suppressor) and the 3 kV will not. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 === Joe Finlayson jfinlay...@telica.com To: 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordo Subject: RE: ESD failure mo.ieee.org 05/13/2003 07:47 AM Please respond to Joe Finlayson Hi Ravinder, Might you have a suppression device installed that triggers above 3KV? Thx, Joe * Joe Finlayson Manager, Compliance Engineering Telica, Inc. 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100 Marlboro, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 804-8212 Fax: (508) 804-8400 Email: jfinlay...@telica.com From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:57 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD failure Hi Gurus, My device now generally passes 7 -8 kV contact discharge, but sometimes fails at 3 kV (I am testing from 1 kV to 8 kV, 1 zap per second for about 15 seconds). Can someone explain the reason for this behavior. Thanks. Regards, Ravinder Server PCB and Flex Development Hitachi Global Storage Technologies *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at:
RE: Use of a triangle on warning labels
Doug - I have a copy of ISO 3684:1984 (quite old) in which the geometries of safety signs are described: circle: prohibition or mandatory action triangle: warning square or rectangle: information (including instructions) One must assume (since it's not said in ISO3684:1984, ISO3641:1988, IEC60417-1:1998 or IEC60417-2:1998; though it may be in IEC60416, which is reference in the scope of IEC60417-2:1998 and is a normative reference in IEC60417-1:1998) that just a symbol for a product marking, without a surrounding geometric emphasis, is the same as if the symbol were on a rectangular sign. Answer to your trivia question - Per ISO 3684:1984, the slash runs 10:00 to 4:00 for a prohibition sign. This is not always followed, if the ISO 7000:1989, Symbol 0506, is any example. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: POWELL, DOUG Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 4:53 PM Hello group, It has become apparent to me that various standards require triangles at times when others do not. For example, IEC 61010-1 Table 1 only indicates 3 symbols that have the triangle enclosing the symbol. While, IEC 60417 does not indicate this. One that seems to be missing from IEC 61010-1 is the exclamation point in triangle. I've reviewed IEC 60204-1, EN50178, EN60950 as well and I find varying requirements, some more than others. SEMI S2 seems to indicate that nearly every symbol belongs in a triangle. I'm guessing that if it is an informational symbol, you do not use the triangle, but countering this, I have seen the hearing protection warning in a circle without the triangle. Does anyone know of a reliable rule-of-thumb for when to use a triangle on an IEC/ISO international warning symbol? By the way, here's a trivia question to which I do know the answer: On the circle-bar label warning, which angle does the slash take, from 10:00 to 4:00 or from 2:00 to 8:00 on the clock face? thanks, -doug This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD failure
There are many reasons and theories for why a lower voltage ESD discharge can upset a device while a higher voltage discharge does not. But, for whatever reason, this seems to be an accepted fact and is why many guys do ESD testing at low and high voltages. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 7:54 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: ESD failure The other thing that can happen is that the discharge can take a different path. I have seen a technician succesfully discharge an ESD gun onto the connector pins of a sub-min D connector at low voltage, but only be able to hit the shell at higher voltage. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA hansm hans.mellb...@baclcorp.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 05/12/2003 06:17:32 PM Please respond to hansm hans.mellb...@baclcorp.com Sent by:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To:Ravinder Ajmani ajm...@us.ibm.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject:Re: ESD failure Both dV/dt and di/dt can have higher values at the lower voltages. This is one of the peculiar phenomenae of ESD. Hans Mellberg Engineering Manager This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Power Adapter LPS
Hi, Richard. From: richhug...@aol.com Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 5:47 PM Peter, I presume that you replying here for product use in North America only? Yes. UL1310 being a US standard with close ties to NFPA70, Article 725 and a title of Class 2 Power Units (used to be titled Direct Plug-In Transformer Units). Also, all standards references were to UL standards, leaving the distinct impression of a North American only query. Admittedly, this is sometimes not the case. The original question was about meeting LPS requirements in UL 60950 and Angus McGill asked if having such a supply would help in obtaining UL approval for the IT equipment (i.e. ITE). I've already deleted the original posting, but I believe the question was related to whether or not additional testing of a Listed Class 2 Power Unit to LPS requirements would aid in obtaining certification. If this was the question, the answer is no. If the question was intended to go beyond this, then, certainly, the issues you mention and many others, still need review. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: Peter L. Tarver Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 2:40 PM Angus Doug - Even though 1310 power supplies may only comply with Basic Insulation (per UL60950), they have the bejeebers tested out of them. UL1310 emphasizes testing over construction, whereas UL60950 emphasizes the contrary. Since a UL1310 power supply must meet the requirements for NEC Class 2 power sources, there is no need for any additional testing to demonstrate compliance with LPS requirements in UL60950. The LPS requirements are derived from (though somewhat less stringent than) NEC Class 2 requirements. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
EMC/SI course for 2003/2004
Hi, I would like to know where is it possible to attend an EMC or SI course in US or South America. Could someone inform me if Don White Consultants still exist ? Thanks Thomas Krzesaj This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
1000Vdc test (rail equipment)
Hi all. In a similar situation to the thread headed Production Line Hi-Pot Test, I am advising on improving EMC on a product for the UK rail environment. This must pass a 1000Vdc 'voltage proof' test, and I would like to connect varistors where this test has to be applied. Has anybody had experience with temporary disconnection of protection components during this test, as to whether this is an allowable practice? Many thanks, Jeff Chambers Dr Jeff Chambers Westbay Technology Ltd Suppliers of EMC Design Software Main St Baycliff Ulverston Cumbria LA12 9RN England Tel: 01229 869 108 Fax: 01229 869 108 http://www.westbay.ndirect.co.uk This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD failure
The other thing that can happen is that the discharge can take a different path. I have seen a technician succesfully discharge an ESD gun onto the connector pins of a sub-min D connector at low voltage, but only be able to hit the shell at higher voltage. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA hansm hans.mellb...@baclcorp.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 05/12/2003 06:17:32 PM Please respond to hansm hans.mellb...@baclcorp.com Sent by:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To:Ravinder Ajmani ajm...@us.ibm.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject:Re: ESD failure Both dV/dt and di/dt can have higher values at the lower voltages. This is one of the peculiar phenomenae of ESD. Hans Mellberg Engineering Manager This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: ESD failure
Hi Ravinder, Might you have a suppression device installed that triggers above 3KV? Thx, Joe * Joe Finlayson Manager, Compliance Engineering Telica, Inc. 734 Forest Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100 Marlboro, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 804-8212 Fax: (508) 804-8400 Email: jfinlay...@telica.com From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:57 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: ESD failure Hi Gurus, My device now generally passes 7 -8 kV contact discharge, but sometimes fails at 3 kV (I am testing from 1 kV to 8 kV, 1 zap per second for about 15 seconds). Can someone explain the reason for this behavior. Thanks. Regards, Ravinder Server PCB and Flex Development Hitachi Global Storage Technologies *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Use of a triangle on warning labels
Doug, the triangle is intended for a warning sign and is specified in ISO 3864. The circle has the meaning of prohibition or mandatory action, and the rectangle is for information including instructions. The diagonal line in a circle is at 45 degrees. The standard covers all aspects of the design of these symbols. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International -Original Message- From: POWELL, DOUG [mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com] Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 7:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: Use of a triangle on warning labels Hello group, It has become apparent to me that various standards require triangles at times when others do not. For example, IEC 61010-1 Table 1 only indicates 3 symbols that have the triangle enclosing the symbol. While, IEC 60417 does not indicate this. One that seems to be missing from IEC 61010-1 is the exclamation point in triangle. I've reviewed IEC 60204-1, EN50178, EN60950 as well and I find varying requirements, some more than others. SEMI S2 seems to indicate that nearly every symbol belongs in a triangle. I'm guessing that if it is an informational symbol, you do not use the triangle, but countering this, I have seen the hearing protection warning in a circle without the triangle. Does anyone know of a reliable rule-of-thumb for when to use a triangle on an IEC/ISO international warning symbol? By the way, here's a trivia question to which I do know the answer: On the circle-bar label warning, which angle does the slash take, from 10:00 to 4:00 or from 2:00 to 8:00 on the clock face? thanks, -doug Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Fort Collins, CO 80535 USA ___ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
Multiplex TTE Product Approvals
Hi Group, I thought I was handling this RTTE standards applicability quite well until the latest proposed product specification for Europe, Australia and N.America (I have to fill in the blank approvals stuff myself) landed on my desk. It has placed me in a state of uncertainty...am I covering all Approvals issues I am seeking members advice on what standards I should be seeking. As you can see I have attempted this myself but is it correct and blanks need to be filled in? I would appreciate replies from those members even though they may be only familiar with a particular continent. EMC, General EU: EN55022 Class B, EN55024, Automotive Directive 95/94/EC (to allow vehicle use) USA: FCC Part 15 (or ICES-003 or CISPR22) Canada: ICES-003 (or FCC Part 15 or CISPR22) Australia: EN55022 Safety, General EU: EN60950-1:2001 NAmerica: ULC60950:2000 Australia: IEC60950-1:2001 CB Certificate Dual Band GSM/GPRS 900-1800MHZ and/or 850-1900MHz modules, requirements: GSM(11.10): ETS 300 607-1 NAmerica? Australia? RF EU: EN 301 489-1, EN 301 489-7 NAmerica RF? Australia RF? EMC: EN 301 419-1 NAmerica EMC? Australia EMC? SAR (EU): ES 59005:1998 per ICNIRP guidelines SAR (NA): ANSI C95.1:1992 SAR (AUS): AS/NZ 2772.1 Bluetooth module (100m) Bluetooth RF EU: EN300 328 Bluetooth RF USA: FCC Part 15 Bluetooth RF Canada: IC GL36 Bluetooth RF Australia: ?? EMC EU: ETS300 826, EN301-489-1 and EN301 489-3 EMC NAmerica? EMC Australia? Analogue Modem EU: TBR21 (guideline only not mandatory) USA: TIA/EIA/IS-968 (or CS-03) Canada: CS-03 (or TIA/EIA/IS-968) Australia: TS002 Laser Bar Code scanner module (IEC Class 2) Safety EU:EN60825-2 NAmerica:CDRH 1040 Australia?? Touchscreen Part of above Safety Standards, no special requirements? CDMA Interface No special requirements LAN802.11b Interface No special requirements WAN Interface No special requirements Again, I would appreciate any feedback. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Heat Sink Colour. (IR scanners a little O.T.)
I was thinking about those far end IR scanners used to monitor travelers for 'fever'. So this may be a little O.T. A prctical 'blackbody' radiates more heat. A good reflector is a poor emitter. I just read more about it from a Physics text (Sears, Zemansky and Young). :-) Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com wrote on 05/13/03 01:35 AM Dark skin radiates better, hence the dark coloring of people with African ancestry. The text did mention that the radiating charateristic of the human body ( any skin pignentation, I supppose) is a very good approximation to a 'blackbody' as far as the far-end IR for body heat is concerned. That is of course, provided that it's temperature is not so high that it became self-luminous! For what it matters, the 'Agfans' seem to favour wearing black. I suppose apart from the practical reason of not needing frequent washing ;-), I suppose these black 'clolors' radiate better under the shade and thus are 'cooler'. Since it can be so, would anybody go for black equipment housing operating in hot areas (scorching, 100°F ( high 30s°C) summerdays, or housing that are close to heat sources like car engines and water heaters)? Or for that matter using black bedsheets. I suppose it can be more than a cosmetic/fashion statement. Just my 2 ¢ worth. Tim Foo This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
