Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Woodgate]

In message <005401d06c08$335793a0$9a06bae0$@cox.net>, dated Tue, 31 Mar 
2015, Ed Price  writes:


Yet it must be noted that Mr. Coyote never brought suit against the 
Acme Company, despite a long history on non-compliant and generally 
unsuitable products whose use often resulted in grave physical injuries.


Of course not, because he stole the products. Did you ever see a coyote 
with cash?

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Woodgate]

In message <006001d06c0b$4a2bd110$de837330$@cox.net>, dated Tue, 31 Mar 
2015, Ed Price  writes:


I beg to differ with you when you say that a conviction of technical 
superiority is a 50-year old dinosaur attitude .


I don't think you do disagree about the nature of the attitude. Your 
point is actually that some dinosaurs have still survived.


Do you recall a recent highly popular smartphone which provided an 
?insanely excellent? experience, but only if you held it the ?right 
way? so as to not block its communication link?


A major goof, but I suspect the company didn't launch knowing about the 
problem; is was a case of 'emperor's clothes'.


Further, we have accepted the software industry model that technical 
superiority trumps many aggravating features.


The software industry is relatively new; it's like one of those 
late-evolved dinosaurs with elaborate but useless head decorations. The 
claimed 'technical superiority' is often just a collection of 'bells and 
whistles' that the coders put in 'because we can do it for free', not 
because anyone really wanted it.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Woodgate]

In message 
2mI4mMBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>, dated Tue, 31 Mar 2015, John Allen 
 writes:


And so what has actually changed with today's "get rich quick" senior 
managers of both types in the last 50 years?


One would hope that with that antediluvian attitude, they wouldn't 
become senior managers now.


The attitude probably doesn't affect their reproductive success, so 
Darwin can't help. We can only hope for a selective fall of asteroids.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Review of Steven Sandler's new book on Power Integrity

[Ken Wyatt]

Unfortunately, this book was already reviewed on EDN.com, so my editor had to 
pull my version. I'll publish it elsewhere and let you all know the link.

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
Woodland Park, CO
k...@emc-seminars.com
www.emc-seminars.com
(Sent from my iPad)

> On Mar 31, 2015, at 4:49 PM, Ken Wyatt  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I just posted a review of Steven Sandler’s recent book, Power Integrity.
> 
> http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439092/Review--Power-Integrity-by-Steven-Sandler
> 
> Cheers, Ken
> 
> ___
> Kenneth Wyatt
> Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
> 56 Aspen Dr.
> Woodland Park, CO
> 
> Phone: (719) 310-5418
> 
> Email Me! | Web Site | Blog
> The EMC Blog (EDN)
> Subscribe to Newsletter
> Connect with me on LinkedIn
> 

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Ed Price]

John:

 

I beg to differ with you when you say that a conviction of technical
superiority is a 50-year old dinosaur attitude . Do you recall a recent
highly popular smartphone which provided an "insanely excellent" experience,
but only if you held it the "right way" so as to not block its communication
link? Further, we have accepted the software industry model that technical
superiority trumps many aggravating features.

 

A new set of proud lizards enters management every year.

 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

 

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 2:54 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

In message

mailto:GnjPVEBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>
GnjPVEBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>, dated Tue, 31 Mar 2015, John Allen <
 john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk>
writes:

 

>- unfortunately, the " cost without a sale" argument is prevalent,

 

But since the cost is necessary for market entry, the real point is 'no sale
without this cost'.

 

>and not only amongst the "marketing" men but also amongst some of the 

>senior technical management because of their conviction that the 

>"technical superiority" of their products will overcome any "minor"

>legal issues with problems in selling those products!

 

That attitude was 'dinosaur-like' 50 years ago.

--

OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See
 www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on
the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

 

-


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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Ed Price]

Brian:

 

Yet it must be noted that Mr. Coyote never brought suit against the Acme
Company, despite a long history on non-compliant and generally unsuitable
products whose use often resulted in grave physical injuries. This would
probably be counter-productive to Ken's quest.

 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

Mr. Nute,

 

As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the premier
exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some Wile E. Coyote
videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and their required level
of understanding for product performance and conformity.

 

Brian

 

 

From: Richard Nute [  mailto:ri...@ieee.org]

Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

Hi Ken:

 

Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That is
what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management would prefer
to keep the costs at a minimum.

 

EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must comply
with in order to sell in various countries.  

 

1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.

 

2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements and
determine whether the product can bear certification marks.

 

3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the
requirements.

 

4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest to
compliance with the requirements.

 

5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory inspection
as a condition for marking the product.

 

6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.

 

7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of full-time
employees in this activity is.

 

I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.

 

 

Good luck, and best regards,

Rich

 

From: Ken Javor [ 
mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the subject
matter for management at a higher level not interested in details?
Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country's own
borders.

 

Thank you,

 

Ken Javor

Phone: (256) 650-5261

 

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[PSES] Review of Steven Sandler's new book on Power Integrity

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just posted a review of Steven Sandler’s recent book, Power Integrity.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439092/Review--Power-Integrity-by-Steven-Sandler
 


Cheers, Ken

___
Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services, Inc.
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Allen]

John

 

And so what has actually changed with today's "get rich quick" senior
managers of both types in the last 50 years? 

 

Often, unfortunately not very much! L

 

John Allen 

W.London, UK

 

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: 31 March 2015 22:54
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

In message

mailto:GnjPVEBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>
GnjPVEBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>, dated Tue, 31 Mar 2015, John Allen <
 john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk>
writes:

 

>- unfortunately, the " cost without a sale" argument is prevalent,

 

But since the cost is necessary for market entry, the real point is 'no sale
without this cost'.

 

>and not only amongst the "marketing" men but also amongst some of the 

>senior technical management because of their conviction that the 

>"technical superiority" of their products will overcome any "minor"

>legal issues with problems in selling those products!

 

That attitude was 'dinosaur-like' 50 years ago.

--

OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See
 www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on
the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

 

-



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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
 emc-p...@ieee.org>

 

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well-used formats), large files, etc.

 

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Allen]

Ken

 

OK, I do understand, and so make sure that what you pass on, to the managers
asking for the info, the "other half" of the equation in terms that "they
themselves" understand for the audience that they need to reach - and not
just "pass on the info"

 

John Allen

W.London, UK

 

-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: 31 March 2015 22:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

I'm not making a persuasive pitch. I was asked to provide primer type
material for someone who wanted an overview of the topic without getting
into engineering details. I started off with enclosures for rotating fans
and the UL "finger," but I figured there would be much more comprehensive
backgrounds available from the cognoscenti who subscribe to this forum.

 

Ken Javor

Phone: (256) 650-5261

 

 

> From: John Allen < 
john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk>

> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 22:33:40 +0100

> To: 'Ken Javor' < 
ken.ja...@emccompliance.com>

> Cc: <  EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>

> Subject: RE: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 

> for the non-professional

> 

> Ken

> 

> In one respect you are quite right, but you still really do have to 

> understand the minds of the people you need to convince/"convert", and 

> thus you need to understand and rationalise how you will present those 

> primers to the audience that you hope will take it all in - and that 

> means really understanding your likely audience, and then to pitch the 

> presentations in terms that they will quickly absorb.

> 

> John Allen

> W.London, UK.

> 

> 

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: Ken Javor [ 
mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]

> Sent: 31 March 2015 21:50

> To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 

> for the non-professional

> 

> There appear to be some serious "attitude cases" subscribed to this 

> forum. I am truly looking for primer type info for the non-engineer. 

> Not trying to persuade recalcitrant mangers, just trying to round up 

> some basic info on the subject.

> 

> Ken Javor

> Phone: (256) 650-5261

> 

> 

>> From: Brian Oconnell < 
oconne...@tamuracorp.com>

>> Reply-To: Brian Oconnell < 
oconne...@tamuracorp.com>

>> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:31:27 +

>> To: <  EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>

>> Conversation: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 

>> for the non-professional

>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 

>> for the non-professional

>> 

>> Mr. Nute,

>> 

>> As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the 

>> premier exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some 

>> Wile E. Coyote videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and 

>> their required level of understanding for product performance and

> conformity.

>> 

>> Brian

>> 

>> 

>> From: Richard Nute [  mailto:ri...@ieee.org]

>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM

>> To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 

>> for the non-professional

>> 

>> Hi Ken:

>> 

>> Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  

>> That is what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, 

>> management would prefer to keep the costs at a minimum.

>> 

>> EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must 

>> comply with in order to sell in various countries.

>> 

>> 1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.

>> 

>> 2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements 

>> and determine whether the product can bear certification marks.

>> 

>> 3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the 

>> requirements.

>> 

>> 4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest 

>> to compliance with the requirements.

>> 

>> 5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory 

>> inspection as a condition for marking the product.

>> 

>> 6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.

>> 

>> 7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of 

>> full-time employees in this activity is.

>> 

>> I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.

>> 

>> 

>> Good luck, and best regards,

>> Rich

>> 

>> From: Ken Javor [ 
mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]

>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM

>> To:  

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Woodgate]

In message 
GnjPVEBAA==@blueyonder.co.uk>, dated Tue, 31 Mar 2015, John Allen 
 writes:



- unfortunately, the " cost without a sale" argument is prevalent,


But since the cost is necessary for market entry, the real point is 'no 
sale without this cost'.


and not only amongst the "marketing" men but also amongst some of the 
senior technical management because of their conviction that the 
"technical superiority" of their products will overcome any "minor" 
legal issues with problems in selling those products!


That attitude was 'dinosaur-like' 50 years ago.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Allen]

Ken

In one respect you are quite right, but you still really do have to
understand the minds of the people you need to convince/"convert", and thus
you need to understand and rationalise how you will present those primers to
the audience that you hope will take it all in - and that means really
understanding your likely audience, and then to pitch the presentations in
terms that they will quickly absorb.

John Allen
W.London, UK.



-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: 31 March 2015 21:50
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

There appear to be some serious "attitude cases" subscribed to this forum. I
am truly looking for primer type info for the non-engineer. Not trying to
persuade recalcitrant mangers, just trying to round up some basic info on
the subject.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: Brian Oconnell 
> Reply-To: Brian Oconnell 
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:31:27 +
> To: 
> Conversation: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
> for the non-professional
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
> for the non-professional
> 
> Mr. Nute,
> 
> As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the 
> premier exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some 
> Wile E. Coyote videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and 
> their required level of understanding for product performance and
conformity.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
> for the non-professional
> 
> Hi Ken:
> 
> Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That 
> is what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management 
> would prefer to keep the costs at a minimum.
> 
> EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must 
> comply with in order to sell in various countries.
> 
> 1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.
> 
> 2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements 
> and determine whether the product can bear certification marks.
> 
> 3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the 
> requirements.
> 
> 4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest 
> to compliance with the requirements.
> 
> 5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory 
> inspection as a condition for marking the product.
> 
> 6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.
> 
> 7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of 
> full-time employees in this activity is.
> 
> I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.
> 
> 
> Good luck, and best regards,
> Rich
> 
> From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for 
> the non-professional
> 
> Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the 
> subject matter for management at a higher level not interested in 
> details?  Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country's
own borders.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
> site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 

-

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Ken Javor]

I'm not making a persuasive pitch. I was asked to provide primer type
material for someone who wanted an overview of the topic without getting
into engineering details. I started off with enclosures for rotating fans
and the UL "finger," but I figured there would be much more comprehensive
backgrounds available from the cognoscenti who subscribe to this forum.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: John Allen 
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 22:33:40 +0100
> To: 'Ken Javor' 
> Cc: 
> Subject: RE: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
> non-professional
> 
> Ken
> 
> In one respect you are quite right, but you still really do have to
> understand the minds of the people you need to convince/"convert", and thus
> you need to understand and rationalise how you will present those primers to
> the audience that you hope will take it all in - and that means really
> understanding your likely audience, and then to pitch the presentations in
> terms that they will quickly absorb.
> 
> John Allen
> W.London, UK.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
> Sent: 31 March 2015 21:50
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
> non-professional
> 
> There appear to be some serious "attitude cases" subscribed to this forum. I
> am truly looking for primer type info for the non-engineer. Not trying to
> persuade recalcitrant mangers, just trying to round up some basic info on
> the subject.
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> 
>> From: Brian Oconnell 
>> Reply-To: Brian Oconnell 
>> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:31:27 +
>> To: 
>> Conversation: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements
>> for the non-professional
>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements
>> for the non-professional
>> 
>> Mr. Nute,
>> 
>> As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the
>> premier exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some
>> Wile E. Coyote videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and
>> their required level of understanding for product performance and
> conformity.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> 
>> From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM
>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements
>> for the non-professional
>> 
>> Hi Ken:
>> 
>> Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That
>> is what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management
>> would prefer to keep the costs at a minimum.
>> 
>> EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must
>> comply with in order to sell in various countries.
>> 
>> 1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.
>> 
>> 2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements
>> and determine whether the product can bear certification marks.
>> 
>> 3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the
>> requirements.
>> 
>> 4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest
>> to compliance with the requirements.
>> 
>> 5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory
>> inspection as a condition for marking the product.
>> 
>> 6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.
>> 
>> 7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of
>> full-time employees in this activity is.
>> 
>> I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.
>> 
>> 
>> Good luck, and best regards,
>> Rich
>> 
>> From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for
>> the non-professional
>> 
>> Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the
>> subject matter for management at a higher level not interested in
>> details?  Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country's
> own borders.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Ken Javor
>> Phone: (256) 650-5261
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
>> e-mail to 
>> 
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>> 
>> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities
>> site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for
>> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
>> 
>> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>> unsubscribe)
>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>> 
>> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>> Scott Douglas 
>> Mike Cantwel

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Allen]

Brian & friends

 

Your comment about "W.E.C." is undoubtedly true in many cases as I have seen
on many occasions - unfortunately, the " cost without a sale" argument is
prevalent, and not only amongst the "marketing" men but also amongst some of
the senior technical management because of their conviction that the
"technical superiority" of their products will overcome any "minor" legal
issues with problems in selling those products! 

 

Unfortunately, again, they often then hit the "real World" and find out
otherwise - which is why you need to convince both of those groups of the
need for compliance, and so the pitch needs to be targeted at both of them. 

 

And, in the case of the techies, that means that you probably need to
outline, sometimes over a long period of time, what the technical issues
are, and then what the potential implications are - possibly by emphasising
the non-compliant aspects of a design and the potential risks to both "life"
and to being hit with the relevant legal penalties in terms criminality,
fines (both to the company and to them personally), and in terms of "company
reputation"/"public perception".

 

John Allen

W.London, UK.

 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: 31 March 2015 21:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

Mr. Nute,

 

As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the premier
exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some Wile E. Coyote
videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and their required level
of understanding for product performance and conformity.

 

Brian

 

 

From: Richard Nute [  mailto:ri...@ieee.org]

Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

Hi Ken:

 

Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That is
what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management would prefer
to keep the costs at a minimum.

 

EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must comply
with in order to sell in various countries.  

 

1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.

 

2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements and
determine whether the product can bear certification marks.

 

3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the
requirements.

 

4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest to
compliance with the requirements.

 

5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory inspection
as a condition for marking the product.

 

6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.

 

7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of full-time
employees in this activity is.

 

I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.

 

 

Good luck, and best regards,

Rich

 

From: Ken Javor [ 
mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]

Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 

Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the subject
matter for management at a higher level not interested in details?
Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country's own
borders.

 

Thank you,

 

Ken Javor

Phone: (256) 650-5261

 

-



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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
 emc-p...@ieee.org>

 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at

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-
---

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Woodgate]

In message <551b024e.1010...@gmail.com>, dated Tue, 31 Mar 2015, Doug 
Powell  writes:


.  Of course, this assumes that the compliance engineering function has 
early input to the new design


Question 1: Can you be certain that you won't ever want to sell this 
product in many countries?


If not, we should design it to meet 'world-wide' requirements. At this 
stage that won't be costly in time or money. Later, it will be.



and is not scheduled for the very end of the project


That deserves to result in failure.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Brian Ceresney]

Hmmm I was told that having an "attitude" was a pre-requisite for the 
position... ;  )
Brian C
604-566-8827
Delta-Q Technologies


-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: March-31-15 1:50 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the 
non-professional

There appear to be some serious "attitude cases" subscribed to this forum. I am 
truly looking for primer type info for the non-engineer. Not trying to persuade 
recalcitrant mangers, just trying to round up some basic info on the subject.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: Brian Oconnell 
> Reply-To: Brian Oconnell 
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:31:27 +
> To: 
> Conversation: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
> for the non-professional
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
> for the non-professional
> 
> Mr. Nute,
> 
> As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the 
> premier exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some 
> Wile E. Coyote videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and 
> their required level of understanding for product performance and conformity.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
> for the non-professional
> 
> Hi Ken:
> 
> Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That 
> is what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management 
> would prefer to keep the costs at a minimum.
> 
> EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must 
> comply with in order to sell in various countries.
> 
> 1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.
> 
> 2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements 
> and determine whether the product can bear certification marks.
> 
> 3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the 
> requirements.
> 
> 4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest 
> to compliance with the requirements.
> 
> 5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory 
> inspection as a condition for marking the product.
> 
> 6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.
> 
> 7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of 
> full-time employees in this activity is.
> 
> I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.
> 
> 
> Good luck, and best regards,
> Rich
> 
> From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for 
> the non-professional
> 
> Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the 
> subject matter for management at a higher level not interested in 
> details?  Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country's 
> own borders.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society 
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
> e-mail to 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
> site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering 

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Ken Javor]

There appear to be some serious "attitude cases" subscribed to this forum. I
am truly looking for primer type info for the non-engineer. Not trying to
persuade recalcitrant mangers, just trying to round up some basic info on
the subject.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: Brian Oconnell 
> Reply-To: Brian Oconnell 
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:31:27 +
> To: 
> Conversation: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
> non-professional
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
> non-professional
> 
> Mr. Nute,
> 
> As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the premier
> exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some Wile E. Coyote
> videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and their required level of
> understanding for product performance and conformity.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
> non-professional
> 
> Hi Ken:
> 
> Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That is what
> a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management would prefer to
> keep the costs at a minimum.
> 
> EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must comply
> with in order to sell in various countries. 
> 
> 1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.
> 
> 2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements and
> determine whether the product can bear certification marks.
> 
> 3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the
> requirements.
> 
> 4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest to
> compliance with the requirements.
> 
> 5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory inspection as
> a condition for marking the product.
> 
> 6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.
> 
> 7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of full-time
> employees in this activity is.
> 
> I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.
> 
> 
> Good luck, and best regards,
> Rich
> 
> From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
> non-professional
> 
> Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the subject
> matter for management at a higher level not interested in details?  Especially
> as to impact on selling equipment outside a country's own borders.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher:  
> David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Ken Javor]

Thanks ­ these are the types of resource for which I was searching.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: Scott Aldous 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 13:25:28 -0700
To: Ken Javor 
Cc: "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

A couple of resources that might be helpful:

First, a very high level overview
  from
the WTO. 

Second, an article 
  from inCompliance magazine giving basic information on
worldwide certifications for ITE, with a focus on EMC.

Good luck!

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Ken Javor 
wrote:
> I¹m not looking for justification, just a primer on these subjects for the
> non-engineer. Thank you.
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Richard Nute 
> Reply-To: 
> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:57:08 -0700
> To: 'Ken Javor' , 
> Subject: RE: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
> non-professional
> 
>  
>  
> Hi Ken:
>  
>  
> Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That is what
> a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management would prefer to
> keep the costs at a minimum.
>  
> EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must comply
> with in order to sell in various countries.  
>  
> 1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.
> 
>  
> 2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements and
> determine whether the product can bear certification marks.
> 
>  
> 3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the
> requirements.
> 
>  
> 
> 4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest to
> compliance with the requirements.
> 
>  
> 
> 5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory inspection as
> a condition for marking the product.
> 
>  
> 
> 6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.
> 
>  
> 
> 7)  The cost of compliance at our company isŠ  The number of full-time
> employees in this activity isŠ
> 
>  
> 
> I¹m sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.
>  
>  
> Good luck, and best regards,
> Rich
>  
> 
> From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
> non-professional
>  
> Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the subject
> matter for management at a higher level not interested in details?  Especially
> as to impact on selling equipment outside a country¹s own borders.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261 
> 
> -
> 
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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> Mike Cantwell 
> 
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher  
> David Heald 



-- 
Scott Aldous
Compliance Engineer
Google
650-253-1994
scottald...@google.com



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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Brian Oconnell]

Mr. Nute,

As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the premier 
exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some Wile E. Coyote 
videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and their required level of 
understanding for product performance and conformity.

Brian


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the 
non-professional

Hi Ken:

Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That is what 
a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management would prefer to keep 
the costs at a minimum.

EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must comply with 
in order to sell in various countries.  

1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.

2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements and 
determine whether the product can bear certification marks.

3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the requirements.

4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest to 
compliance with the requirements.

5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory inspection as a 
condition for marking the product.

6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.

7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of full-time 
employees in this activity is.

I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.


Good luck, and best regards,
Rich

From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the 
non-professional

Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the subject 
matter for management at a higher level not interested in details?  Especially 
as to impact on selling equipment outside a country's own borders.

Thank you,

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Scott Aldous]

A couple of resources that might be helpful:

First, a very high level overview
 from
the WTO.

Second, an article

from
inCompliance magazine giving basic information on worldwide certifications
for ITE, with a focus on EMC.

Good luck!

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Ken Javor 
wrote:

>  I’m not looking for justification, just a primer on these subjects for
> the non-engineer. Thank you.
>
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
>
>
> --
> *From: *Richard Nute 
> *Reply-To: *
> *Date: *Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:57:08 -0700
> *To: *'Ken Javor' , <
> EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> *Subject: *RE: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements
> for the non-professional
>
>
>
> Hi Ken:
>
>
> Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That is
> what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management would
> prefer to keep the costs at a minimum.
>
> EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must comply
> with in order to sell in various countries.
>
> 1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.
>
>
> 2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements and
> determine whether the product can bear certification marks.
>
>
> 3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the
> requirements.
>
>
>
> 4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest to
> compliance with the requirements.
>
>
>
> 5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory inspection
> as a condition for marking the product.
>
>
>
> 6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.
>
>
>
> 7)  The cost of compliance at our company is…  The number of full-time
> employees in this activity is…
>
>
>
> I’m sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.
>
>
> Good luck, and best regards,
> Rich
>
>
> *From:* Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
> 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for
> the non-professional
>
> Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the
> subject matter for management at a higher level not interested in details?
> Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country’s own
> borders.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ken Javor
> Phone: (256) 650-5261
>
>  -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
> Jim Bacher 
> David Heald 
>



-- 
Scott Aldous
Compliance Engineer
Google
650-253-1994
scottald...@google.com

-

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Doug Powell]

Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the 
subject matter for management at a higher level not interested in 
details?  Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a 
country?s own borders.




When communicating with management I generally do not go into deep 
details.  Most upper management and especially executives do not have 
time for a point by point tutorial on the problem.  In a way, you have 
to think a little like a salesman.  I am not suggesting you cross over 
to the "dark side" of sales, but understanding the concerns of the 
management viewpoint is essential.  An entire presentation should not 
take more than 15 to 20 minutes, leaving time for questions in a 30 
minute meeting.


Instead, I'll briefly mention that the rules and regulations usually 
come from three external sources.  Authorities having jurisdiction (AHJs 
of regional, national & local government), industrial organizations for 
the product type and finally contractual agreements.  A possible fourth 
source is where consumers have unstated expectations of product safety, 
performance and reliability.


Instead of presenting the topic of regulatory compliance as another 
hurdle or road block to getting products out the door, I explain that 
these rules are actually from external sources and the company has very 
little control over them.  The internal compliance engineering function 
and necessary development/test time is the tool to open market doors 
that were previously closed.  Ultimately the cost of non-compliance is 
very difficult to measure but is instantly recognizable as a closed door 
in the marketplace you otherwise wish to enter.


An example you might give (one where I have personal experience), is 
where the sales department decides to take product "X" which had been 
produced and on the North American market for decades and sell it in the 
European Community, Mexico, Korea and several Arab countries.  A trade 
show for three months hence is already scheduled.  Although the product 
did have UL certifications to one of the older standards for commercial 
equipment.  It, simply was not acceptable in new markets.


As a way to reduce the painfulness of redesigning a product for 
regulatory compliance I often point out that this is an opportunity to 
update and redesign a product line.  Of course, this assumes that the 
compliance engineering function has early input to the new design and is 
not scheduled for the very end of the project.  In the case I mentioned, 
the company I was working with took this opportunity to develop their 
"international" line of products which had a new look and feel.  These 
products were more modern with a high-tech look and feel.


Hope it goes well for you,

Doug





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list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Ken Javor]

I¹m not looking for justification, just a primer on these subjects for the
non-engineer. Thank you.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: Richard Nute 
Reply-To: 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:57:08 -0700
To: 'Ken Javor' , 
Subject: RE: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional

 
 
Hi Ken:
 
 
Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That is
what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management would prefer
to keep the costs at a minimum.
 
EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must comply
with in order to sell in various countries.
 
1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.

 
2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements and
determine whether the product can bear certification marks.

 
3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the
requirements.

 

4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest to
compliance with the requirements.

 

5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory inspection
as a condition for marking the product.

 

6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.

 

7)  The cost of compliance at our company isŠ  The number of full-time
employees in this activity isŠ

 

I¹m sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.
 
 
Good luck, and best regards,
Rich
 

From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the
non-professional
 
Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the subject
matter for management at a higher level not interested in details?
Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country¹s own
borders.

Thank you,

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Richard Nute]

 

 

Hi Ken:

 

 

Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost
without a sale.  That is what a VP of marketing
told me.   For the most part, management would
prefer to keep the costs at a minimum.

 

EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that
the products must comply with in order to sell in
various countries.  

 

1)  The requirements must be included in the
design of the product.

 

2)  Tests verify that the product complies
with the requirements and determine whether the
product can bear certification marks.

 

3)  Marks applied to the product attest to
compliance with the requirements.

 

4)  For some countries, documents accompanying
the product attest to compliance with the
requirements.

 

5)  Some countries and certification houses
require factory inspection as a condition for
marking the product.

 

6)  Some certification houses require periodic
factory surveillance.

 

7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.
The number of full-time employees in this activity
is.

 

I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these
points if asked.

 

 

Good luck, and best regards,

Rich

 

From: Ken Javor
[mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and
safety requirements for the non-professional

 

Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or
urls covering the subject matter for management at
a higher level not interested in details?
Especially as to impact on selling equipment
outside a country's own borders.

Thank you,

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


-

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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[John Woodgate]

In message , dated Tue, 31 
Mar 2015, Ken Javor  writes:


Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the 
subject matter for management at a higher level not interested in 
details?  Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a 
country?s own borders.


Not what you want (it may be difficult to find such material for 
safety), but maybe you can use it:


The costs of meeting the technical requirements and testing for 
compliance are the fee for entering the market, not R&D costs.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Ken Javor]

Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the subject
matter for management at a higher level not interested in details?
Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country¹s own
borders.

Thank you,

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Re: [PSES] USB Mains Outlet sockets

[Ted Eckert]

Let me figuratively add fuel to the fire. There is a Kickstarter campaign for a 
new DIY USB cover 
plate.
 The FAQ near the bottom of the page promises that the product will be UL 
Listed before it ships. The company has a similar product that provides 
lighting on the cover plate 
which is UL 
Listed.



This appears to simplify the installation process for the do it yourself 
installer. However, the design is particular to one of the more common types of 
outlets used in North America. I don't see an easy way to adapt this design to 
the various types of outlets used outside of North America. The small size of 
the electronics housing might not be large enough if the creepage and clearance 
distances need to be increased for 240 VAC input.



This email message and attachments may contain confidential and proprietary 
information.  Any unauthorized use is prohibited.  If you are not the intended 
recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of 
the original message and attachments.



-Original Message-
From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:17 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] USB Mains Outlet sockets



Dave



You can, but the (electric wood) saw requires an NB opinion under the Machinery 
Directive and the weighing instrument may require one under the Measuring 
Instruments directive - neither require one for the LVD.



Regards

Charlie





-Original Message-

From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]

Sent: 16 March 2015 16:36

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] USB Mains Outlet sockets



But there are some products that require a certification? from an NB like saws 
and weighing instruments in addition to the manufacturer claiming compliance.



-Dave



-Original Message-

From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]

Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:33 AM

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] USB Mains Outlet sockets



In message 
<9d43ffa0de684727ac4a5d218504c...@sehste15d1be4.hs20.net>,

dated Mon, 16 Mar 2015, Charlie Blackham 
mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>>

writes:



>I don't think they can - Notified Bodies don't appear work like that

>under the LVD

>

>Annex IV is the only route to compliance and that is solely the

>responsibility of the manufacturer - Notified Bodies are only involved

>in the event of a challenge or prohibition under Articles 8 or 9.



There is nothing that *prohibits* a manufacturer consulting a notified body. 
But the NB can only advise; the claim of compliance must come from the 
manufacturer alone.

--

OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See 
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the 
sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, 
Rayleigh, Essex UK



-



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