Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

[CATHERINE PEARSON]

Hi Peter,
I totally agree, this is the approach that we taking.

I believe for products that are covered by a self declaration, its still 
fairly unchanged.
A suitable test report from a lab should be acceptable regardless of the 
country etc.
For myself its medical products, you have the MDD / MDR change and 
that's still being worked on and is late !


But its still fairly straight forward if you embraced the change.

Regards Darren.


-- Original Message --
From: "Peter J. Knight" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Sent: Monday, 21 Jun, 21 At 09:21
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?

Hi Darren,

Further to Charlie’s comments, here is an additional angle:

Corresponding to the EU’s citation of harmonised standards in the 
Official Journal of the EU (OJEU) that give a presumption of conformity, 
the UK now maintains a comparable list of “Designated Standards” that 
can be reached from here 
 .


You will find that for each discipline (EMC, electrical safety etc) the 
lists of designated standards are pretty much identical to the 
harmonised standards published in the OJEU.
So a test reports to such shared standards give a presumption of 
conformity for both EU and UK markets. If the lists diverge in the 
future, then in affected cases this commonality may no longer hold.


Best regards,

Peter


From: Charlie Blackham 
Sent: 19 June 2021 20:48
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?


Darren

The “Conformity Assessment Body” is the Notified Body (EU) of Competent 
Body (UK)


This advice isn’t as clearly written as it could be – that last sentence 
has nothing to do with product testing or test labs


Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247


From: Darren @ Vitesses  >

Sent: 19 June 2021 13:20
To: Charlie Blackham  >

Cc: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org 
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?


Hi Charles
Can you explain your last sentence, “ the conformity assessment bodies 
that test them need to be different”




From my understanding a test lab can test to mutiple country standards 
and results used,  ssuming its self declaration .



Sent from my iPhone


On 19 Jun 2021, at 12:44, Charlie Blackham  > wrote:



Andy


some folks are asking for a UK test report


Some folks are confused then 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britain 



Using both the CE and UKCA marking
Both the CE and UKCA mark can be placed on a product so long as neither 
impedes the visibility of the other and requirements of both the GB and 
EU legislation are met.
The essential requirements and standards that can be used to demonstrate 
conformity with them for UKCA marked goods have not changed. That means 
that if your good is currently made to the technical requirements 
necessary for CE marking then it will be made to the same technical 
requirements that exist for UKCA marking. However, the conformity 
assessment bodies that test them may need to be different.

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ 
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: worldwideemc  >

Sent: 18 June 2021 19:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?


Hi Darren,



Thank you for the information. It makes sense that the CE report should 
be sufficient but some folks are asking for a UK test report. I believe 
I'm not the only one confused on this topic.




BR,

Andy



On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 11:38 AM Darren @ Vitesses 
mailto:vites...@btinternet.com> > wrote:


Hi Andy


Yes

If the reports show you meet the relevant standards that would be fine

But also many international standards are the same, eg the Aus/NZS 
standard has a different name but the set up and limits are identical.


So a report to thoes standards would support a claim of compliance to 
the en standards regardless of the country.




I would recommend drawing up a document explaining the reasoning behind 
it.




Regards Darren
Sent from my iPhone


On 18 Jun 2021, at 18:28, worldwideemc  > wrote:




Hello All,



Can I use my European EMC test report to claim compliance to UK 
regulations? I understand I need to generate a UKCA DoC and apply the 
UKCA marking.




The UK designated standards list at the link below lists EN standards 
without any reference to 

Re: [PSES] UL Listing of Computer Keyboard

[CATHERINE PEARSON]

Hi James,
Is UL listing mandatory for IT accessories like keyboards? 
No any NRTL certification will be sufficient, but that may not be the question 
or answer !
Depending where you are selling the equipment, they may expect a certain 
certification mark, 
Ive gotten many approvals for the USA market  but its the customer who needs to 
understand the requirements. 

I had explained to my customer that they can have any suitable certification 
mark and it will meet the requirements, TUV, CSA, UL etc 
However once they were selling the device, there customer would ask "Wheres the 
UL mark" 
there customer was not technical and didn't understand or care to understand 
there were alternatives, just "Wheres the UL mark" Ive also found this with the 
building inspectors who should know better ! 
So for that job, nothing but UL would do. 
In answer to "some retailers use it as a minimum requirement for stocking your 
products"
Yes thats correct and you dont have much chance in convincing them to do 
anything else. 
I've been discussing this with the alternative approval bodies for a while, 
that they need to improve the general public view of them so more people 
understand that UL are only one of a number of options. 
Ive worked with many approval bodies, some better than others, some not, 
but as a general rule, avoid the customer service agents and deal straight with 
the engineer at the testing lab and the person whos dealing with the approval.  
I have to mention my current experience with UL is very good, but then ive 
found myself a number of responsive people who reply to your Emails and are 
happy to discuss the project with you.
10 years ago, it was a lot different ! 
Regards Darren.  



 


 

On Monday, 18 June 2018, 9:40, James Pawson (U3C) 
 wrote:
 

 Hi folks,  Working with a client at the moment on a 
computer keyboard (hence the earlier question). I’m trying to get a handle on 
the applicability of UL listing and could do with some help.  Is UL listing 
mandatory for IT accessories like keyboards? My searching so far suggests that 
the answer is “no”. However, I’ve read that some retailers use it as a minimum 
requirement for stocking your products – does anyone have any experience or 
knowledge of this?  Assuming that UL listing was required (for whatever reason, 
OHSA?) presumably an analysis against IEC 62368-1 would be sufficient or are 
there other tests/requirements?  If anyone has a link to any docs with more 
information I’d like to do some more reading up.  Thanks in advanceJames        
   -

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Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[CATHERINE PEARSON]

Hi Ian, 
When you used the isolation transformer how did you have the earth connected or 
isolated? 

I have seen similar issues, I used an isolation transformer but connected the 
earth  or used a separate earth connection, I think I remember this  solved it. 

You could try finding the source of the noise, 
how certain are you that the LISN is not faulty? 
Normally they filter out emissions very well, could it be the LISN is faulty 
and passing the noise through or creating the noise it the first place? 
Can you run a set up to look at how noisy your mains supply is without any 
product connected to it? 
regards Darren. 

 

On Friday, 27 April 2018, 9:11, "McBurney, Ian" 
 wrote:
 

  Hello Ari.    I’m considering hiring an ac 
source to power the LISN but my only concern would be that the ac source has 
high conducted rf emissions as I assume the ac is derived from high frequency 
switching power devices.    regards     Ian McBurney Lead Compliance Engineer.  
  Allen & Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK 
T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com       From: Ari Honkala 
[mailto:ari.honk...@sesko.fi]
Sent: 26 April 2018 17:22
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements    As an interim 
solution, until you get the source fixed, would be to use UPS on battery.    
with best regards,    Ari Honkala    From: McBurney, Ian 
[mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: torstai 26. huhtikuuta 2018 13:33
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements    Dear Colleagues.   
 I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements. Can anyone recommend a solution?    Many 
thanks in advance.    Ian McBurney Lead Compliance Engineer.    Allen & Heath 
Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 
E:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com       Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business 
in England and Wales, Company number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this 
email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of the company.  -
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Re: [PSES] CE of battery equipment (Li-ion)

[CATHERINE PEARSON]

Hi Kim 
Its a interesting issue, but as a general guide I would apply the standard that 
is most applicable. IEC 62133 covers the requirements for batteries, if its not 
included in the LV directive, and there is not a better standard listed under 
that directive, or other applicable directive for your final product, I would 
recommend using it.
If the final product is not covered by the normal product directives, and 
covered by the General product safety directive, which I think says you should 
use the most applicable standard for the product, which bumps you back to IEC 
62133.  
Legally 
 if there is not one listed in the OJs and you have one that is state of the 
Art and deals with the risks and hazards appropriately, its legal to use that 
to support your claim of Compliance. 
And I would agree with you that battery devices are still not clearly covered 
leading to questions like yours.  
Regards Darren. 


 

On Tuesday, 8 March 2016, 13:18, Kim Boll Jensen  wrote:
 

 Hi all  Regarding 
especially Li-ion batteries and rechargeable batteries in general.  Battery 
equipment is not directly under LVD, but under 2001/95/EC General Product 
Safety directive we have EN 60950 and EN 60065, which includes safety of 
batteries, for some products but also excludes amongst other battery backup 
units.  But what about power-banks which in many cases have a USB connector for 
charging amongst other Smartphone's. How do we define safety requirements for 
the battery here?  There are also other products such as Seg 
Boards/Balanceboards which seem to be under the Machinery Directive, but still 
not under electrical safety requirements. How do we find requirements for the 
battery in these products.  IEC 62133 is used under the CB scheme and a EN 
version have been issued, but under which directive?  Several LVD standards 
requires that if a battery is used it shall be tested according to EN/IEC 
62133, but if the product is not under LVD how do this standard end as a legal 
requirement?  For me it seems that battery products have been forgotten in the 
EU safety requirements, or not so clearly addressed.  Please any comment on 
this is very welcome.   Best regards,  Kim Boll   -

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EN 61000-3-2 Harmonics

[CATHERINE PEARSON]

  
Dear all,  
I have a question on EN 61000-3-2 and the classification of equipment, 
 
If you have an independent power supply that comes with a number of
connections that can be used to supply power a range of electronic equipment,
e.g., a laptop PC, I pods, Mobile phones, cameras etc.  what class would it
come under ?

From the standard, the classification for computers should be Class D, however
as the PSU can be used for numerous electronic equipment it could also come
under Class A, classification which is easier to meet.
 
What is your view on which class it should come under ? 
 
regards Darren
-  This
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