Re: [PSES] Challenge a Notified Body decision
Amund There are methods under the Directive for The Commission to have the status of a Notified Body revoked, but there's not a higher authority to go to on technical matters and I would suggest it is better to confirm your approach is technically correct. You don't mention the standard, or the mask, but the methods in ETSI standards are typically clear. Since you're using a NB, you're not obliged to use a published standard and may wish to refer to ERC Recommendation 74-01 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: 13 September 2024 14:26 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Challenge a Notified Body decision Is it possible to challenge a EU Notified Body decision ? Bringing the case to a superior body that can decide as a independent third party? There is disagreement about how to design a spectrum mask, in connection with radio spur testing according to a non-harmonized standard. The test itself is either passed or failed, depending on how the mask is designed. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] CE marking for avionic in-flight entertainment equipment
David Given that you can only CE Mark a product when it is in the scope of, and compliant with, one or more Directives that require/allow for CE Marking, you need to explain to your customers why your products are out of scope - I would recommend citing the applicable Articles and Annexes in the Directives that would otherwise be applicable. There may well be other requirements that you need to comply with that are outside the scope of these Directives. If you sell these items for use other than on aircraft, they would of course need to be CE marked Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: David Gelfand Sent: 11 September 2024 16:40 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] CE marking for avionic in-flight entertainment equipment Hello to all, What CE directives and which standards would apply to electronic equipment to be installed in an aircraft? LVD, EMCD and RED do not seem to apply. We design and manufacture servers with satellite and LTE modems, for in-flight wifi access and entertainment. Some of our clients are asking for CE marking. Any guidance would be most appreciated. Thanks, David David Gelfand, Ing. P.Eng. Spécialiste en conformité / Conformity Specialist [A blue text on a black background Description automatically generated]<https://kontron.com/> Kontron Canada Inc. 4555 Ambroise-Lafortune | Boisbriand (Québec) J7H 0A4 | Canada * Privacy Statement<https://www.kontron.com/en/privacy-statement> |Legal Statement<https://www.kontron.com/en/legal-and-copyright-information> |Communications Électroniques<http://www.kontron.com/additional/informations-legales-et-droits-d-auteur> [A blue and black logo Description automatically generated]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/2661537> [A black and green play button Description automatically generated] <https://www.youtube.com/@kontron> [A black bird in a blue square Description automatically generated] <https://twitter.com/Kontron> [A white letter in a green square Description automatically generated] <https://www.kontron.com/en/blog> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] : IEC 61000-2-4 scope
This standard has nothing to do with generating AC power from an isolated source on a vehicle as that is not an “Industrial Location” Some more information in the preview, webstore.iec.ch/en/iec_catalog/product/preview/?id=L3B1Yi9wZGYvcHJldmlldy9pbmZvX2llYzYxMDAwLTItNHtlZDMuMC5STFZ9ZW4ucGRm<https://webstore.iec.ch/en/iec_catalog/product/preview/?id=L3B1Yi9wZGYvcHJldmlldy9pbmZvX2llYzYxMDAwLTItNHtlZDMuMC5STFZ9ZW4ucGRm> And in this article https://comsys.se/our-adf-technology/power-quality-iec-61000/ Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Ken Javor Sent: 06 September 2024 22:47 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] : IEC 61000-2-4 scope Don’t have the standard but excerpted the following off a site describing the standard. Pertinent portion underlined. IEC 61000-2-4:2024 Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) - Part 2-4: Environment - Compatibility levels in power distribution systems in industrial locations for low-frequency conducted disturbances Standard Details IEC 61000-2-4:2024 is available as IEC 61000-2-4:2024 RLV which contains the International Standard and its Redline version, showing all changes of the technical content compared to the previous edition. IEC 61000-2-4:2024 is related to conducted disturbances in the frequency range from 0 kHz to 150 kHz. It gives compatibility levels in differential mode (L-L and L-N) for industrial locations, with a nominal voltage up to 35 kV and a nominal frequency of 50 Hz or 60 Hz. NOTE 1 Industrial locations are defined in 3.1.8. Power distribution systems on ships, aircraft, offshore platforms and railways are not included. -- Ken Javor Ph: (256) 650-5261 From: Ralph McDiarmid mailto:rmm.priv...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: mailto:rmm.priv...@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, September 6, 2024 at 1:15 PM To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Subject: Re: [PSES] : IEC 61000-2-4 scope My turn to ask a question to the group of experts. Reference: IEC 61000-2-4:2024 Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) - Part 2-4: Environment - Compatibility levels in power distribution systems in industrial locations for low-frequency conducted disturbances My client would like to know if standard IEC 61000-2-4 is applicable to an inverter that is intended for permanent installation in a motor vehicle. The inverter has no connection to a.c. mains and does not have an a.c. input power port. It’s merely a 24Vdc to 230Vac/50Hz inverter. I think this IEC standard is clearly out of scope for this class of equipment, but if client’s customer insists (a big automotive manufacturer) I’d like to be able craft a technical justification to waive application of the standard. The standard appears only to address conducted disturbances which may be present on non-public (industrial) a.c. power networks and the EMC immunity of equipment connected to those networks. Thank you, Ralph This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@iee
Re: [PSES] Machinery Regulation - safety components
Peter As you note, the term "independently placed on the market" is in the Machinery Directive, so appears unchanged in concept in the MR At the moment I think Machinery Guide §42 Safety components is still the most useful guidance, along At the beginning of July, The EU Commission has issued Draft standardisation request to CENELEC and CEN support of Regulation (EU) 2023/1230 - 5 new standards - updates to a number of other standards - To be completed within 18 months !! https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/60695?locale=en Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Peter Tarver Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2024 12:06 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Machinery Regulation - safety components In reviewing the Machinery Regulation, Article 3 defines a safety component as "...means a physical or digital component, including software, of a product within the scope of this Regulation, which is designed or intended to fulfil (sic) a safety function and which is independently placed on the market, the failure or malfunction of which endanger the safety of persons, but which is not necessary in order for that product to function or for which normal components may be substituted in order for that product to function; (emphasis added.) The component falls under Annex I, Part, B but is only sold to OEMs 1) whose equipment would clearly fall under the Regulation, and 2) who integrate the component into other equipment before that other equipment is placed on the market, but 3) is not "independently placed on the market," for general sale, is there any reason to conclude that the Regulation does not apply to the component? The product is sold into the EU for applications other than those that would be subject to the Regulation, so it seems that applicability could depend on the interpretation of "independently" in the context of the regulation. Or is the use of "independently" intended to mean "not manufactured by the OEM for their own use?" I note that similar language existed in the Machinery Directive. My approach is to apply an abundance of caution and presume the Regulation applies, but I'd appreciate the input of the group. A final couple of questions: should it be assumed that the same standards published in the EU OJ for the Machinery Directive will satisfy the Regulation until a separate list of standards is published and linked to the Regulation? Also, is there a view on when such a list will be published? Regards, Peter Tarver This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] "Significant Thickness"
James My understanding off this phrase is "The material flammability class is checked at the thinnest part of the material that is relied upon as a Fire Enclosure" 62368-1 allows different methods of compliance with clause 6.4 within the same product - for example, parts of the product that are PS1 or PS2 don't need a Fire Enclosure but might share an outer enclosure with parts that are PS3 and require a Fire Enclosure for that portion of the product. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: James Pawson (U3C) Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 10:02 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] "Significant Thickness" Hello again, IEC 62368-1 6.4.8 Fire Enclosures 6.4.8.2.3 Compliance criteria Compliance is checked by inspection of applicable data sheets or test. The material flammability class is checked for the thinnest significant thickness used. There's not a definition of "significant thickness" in the standard. Given that openings in a fire enclosure have controlled maximum dimensions I'm going to read "significant thickness" as "thickness of an area of material that is larger than the maximum permitted opening in that face of the fire enclosure" Thoughts welcomed! All the best James James Pawson Managing Director & EMC Problem Solver Unit 3 Compliance Ltd EMC : Environmental & Vibration : Electrical Safety : CE & UKCA : Consultancy www.unit3compliance.co.uk<http://www.unit3compliance.co.uk/> | ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk<mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk> +44(0)1274 911747 | +44(0)7811 139957 2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL Registered in England and Wales # 10574298 Office hours: Every morning my full attention is on consultancy, testing, and troubleshooting activities for our customers' projects. I'm available/contactable between 1300h to 1730h Mon/Tue/Thurs/Fri. For inquiries, bookings, and testing updates please send us an email on he...@unit3compliance.co.uk<mailto:he...@unit3compliance.co.uk> or call 01274 911747. Our lead times for testing and consultancy are typically 4-5 weeks. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] EU DoC
Amund Generally yes - specific requirements contained in an Annex of the relevant Directive(s), for example RED Annex VI 7. Where applicable, the notified body ... (name, number) ... performed ... (description of intervention) ... and issued the EU-type examination certificate: ...(certificate number) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Monday, June 10, 2024 5:53 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EU DoC If you have to consult an EU Notified Body for CE marking a product, must the EU DoC include information that Notified Body? Best regards Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity
Scott The Ecodesign Directive applies to products within scope of a Commission Regulation implementing Directive 2009/125/EC These products must then be labelled in accordance with the relevant Commission Delegated Regulation on how to energy label that product. You don’t declare compliance with a labelling method, you just label in accordance with it. Lists of relevant Regulations at https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/energy-efficiency/energy-label-and-ecodesign/list-energy-efficient-products-regulations-product-group_en Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2024 2:33 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity Hello Experts, According to the Ecodesign Directive (EU) 2009/125, manufacturers must draw up a declaration of conformity for covered products. However, the Energy Labelling Regulation (EU) 2017/1369 does not explicitly mention this requirement. Is a declaration of conformity also mandatory for products covered under the Energy Labelling Regulation (EU) 2017/1369 as part of the compliance process? Cheers, Scott This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] DoC - reference to ROHS directive
I wouldn’t say that it was “wrong” to add the amendment, though I don’t recommend adding it, but since the amendment applies whether you like it or not, you don’t need to declare that you have applied it as it’s inherent in a declaration to 2011/65/EU. The same goes for any exemptions you may have applied, or indeed have previously applied but have now expired. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: MIKE SHERMAN Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 2:43 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] DoC - reference to ROHS directive What I've seen is language like "2011/65/EU RoHS directive with amendment 2015/863/EU" or "2011/65/EU RoHS directive as amended by 2015/863/EU" The 2015 amendment adds four substances to the original six, so you should mention both it and the 2011 directive. Mike Sherman Sherman PSC LLC On 04/21/2024 12:52 PM CDT Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> wrote: I have the last 10+ years made reference to ROHS directive 2011/65/EU in the DoC. Now, I have been told to switch to 2015/863/EU? Is that correct? From what I see on the EU web site, 2015/863 is a Commission Delegated Directive, amending Annex II to Directive 2011/65/EU As I understand, 2011/65/EU is still in charge, and is the directive to be listed in the DoC. Comments? BR Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] DoC - reference to ROHS directive
Agreed, if you look at https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/waste-and-recycling/rohs-directive_en you see there have been many Commission Delegated Directives of which 2015/863 is just one. And also, https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/restriction-use-certain-hazardous-substances-rohs_en cites only 2011/65/EU as the Directive for RoHS Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Tom Smith Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 7:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] DoC - reference to ROHS directive The proper directive reference remains 2011/65/EU. If you look at the current version of that directive, it incorporates all of the modification, so there is no need to separately reference the amending documents. Regards Tom Smith, P.Eng Principal Engineer TJS Technical Services Inc. Tel: +1 403-612-6664 Email: tsm...@tjstechnical.com<mailto:tsm...@tjstechnical.com> http://tjstechnical.com<http://tjstechnical.com/> Compliance News Updates: https://corp.social/@TJS_Technical From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 11:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] DoC - reference to ROHS directive I have the last 10+ years made reference to ROHS directive 2011/65/EU in the DoC. Now, I have been told to switch to 2015/863/EU? Is that correct? >From what I see on the EU web site, 2015/863 is a Commission Delegated >Directive, amending Annex II to Directive 2011/65/EU As I understand, 2011/65/EU is still in charge, and is the directive to be listed in the DoC. Comments? BR Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 [https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/p
[PSES] UK The Product Safety and Metrology etc. (Amendment) Regulations 2024
UK has published draft legislation to allow continued acceptance of CE Marking past the end of 2024 in the "The Product Safety and Metrology etc. (Amendment) Regulations 2024" along with an explanatory memorandum. The law is due to come into force on 1st October ahead of the current 31 December deadline. The Product Safety and Metrology etc. (Amendment) Regulations 2024 (legislation.gov.uk)<https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2024/9780348260311/resources> Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
[PSES] UK
Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards
Ralph If you want to search EUR-Lex for other publications against a Directive, or earlier HS listings then a search such as https://eur-lex.europa.eu/search.html?lang=en&text=2014%2F53%2FEU&qid=1504346404330&type=quick&scope=EURLEX&sortOne=DD&sortOneOrder=desc could work for you (just replace "2014/53/EU" with the required Directive Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: bart.de.gee...@telenet.be Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 6:06 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards Hi Ralph, Is this what you are looking for? https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards_en Greetings, Bart From: Ralph McDiarmid mailto:rmm.priv...@gmail.com>> Sent: woensdag 17 april 2024 19:04 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] OJEC list of harmonised standards Can someone provide a link to this list. I have searched eur-lex.europa.eu website without success. Ralph This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] IEC 61000-6-5 vs. IEC 61000-6-2
Amund There are a number of differences including: * Zoning of different areas which then require different levels of tests against 61000-4-4; 61000-4-16 and 61000-4-18 * 61000-4-8 Mag Field is 100 A/m continuous and 1000 A/m for 1 s (but only for equipment containing magnetically sensitive components) You can read more for a few Euro at https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-61000-6-5-2015 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 5:34 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] IEC 61000-6-5 vs. IEC 61000-6-2 IEC EN 61000-6-2, Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) - Part 6-2: Generic standards - Immunity for industrial environments IEC EN 61000-6-5, Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) - Part 6-5: Generic standards - Immunity for equipment used in power station and substation environment I'm quite familiar with IEC EN 61000-6-2 but have never tested or looked into IEC EN 61000-6-5. If anyone who have knowledge about both standards and could shorty tell the main differences between these two? Best regards Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] German Required on Product Label to Match China and Nordic for (GS) ?
Rick I’m not expert on GS certification but Low Voltage Directive Article 6 required safety instructions to be in a suitable language 7. Manufacturers shall ensure that the electrical equipment is accompanied by instructions and safety information in a language which can be easily understood by consumers and other end-users, as determined by the Member State concerned. Such instructions and safety information, as well as any labelling, shall be clear, understandable and intelligible. There’s a similar requirement in RED article 10 and I’m not sure whether this document has been published for other Directives, but ADCO RED have published “National language requirements of the national implementation of the Radio Equipment Directive (RED 2014/53/EU)” , https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46453 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Rick Linford Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 3:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] German Required on Product Label to Match China and Nordic for (GS) ? Dear EMC-PSTC Pros, Specific to ITE IEC 62368-1 type standards and German GS certification. (many power supplies and ITE product carry GS mark) Is German language required on products to match the text of other countries requirement to obtain German GS? And (not or) add a statement that non-German text is not important to Germany? China elevation and humidity waring is written into law and is very clear. Is there an equivalent German law and or specific German text? 仅适用于海拔2000米以下地区安全使用 仅适用于在非热带气候条件下安全使用 Nordic countries grounded plug warning, is specific to national differences in IEC 62368-1. I cannot find German equivalent in IEC 62368-1:2014, is it there? Apparaten skall anslutas till jordat uttag. Apparatet må tilkoples jordet stikkontakt. Laite on liitettävä suojamaadoituskoskettimilla varustettuun pistorasiaan. Standard does state to provide safety information and instruction in language of use and there is German law it must be in German. This has been the case for decades. A recent GS certification was held up until compliance with adding text. They are marking other countries requirements de facto German GS requirement. Already aware German GS is not a legal requirement and there many GS issuers. I would have expected PSTC to be lit up already, if this was a requirement applied to every manufacturer of ITE and AV with GS. Starts now, I guess. I am representing myself. I am not asking for any past, current or future employer. Linford@IEEE This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] EN 300 220 - TX duty cycle for SDR
Amund That's a term often used for this type of operation, but it has to meet the requirements referenced in clause 4.5 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 -Original Message- From: Amund Westin Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2024 6:20 AM To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: SV: [PSES] EN 300 220 - TX duty cycle for SDR Thanks Charlie Would you accept "Listen-before-talk" as "polite spectrum access"? Best regards Amund -Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: Charlie Blackham Sendt: 20. februar 2024 10:38 Til: Amund Westin ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Emne: RE: [PSES] EN 300 220 - TX duty cycle for SDR Amund The product has to meet the Spectrum Access requirements for the chosen band and transmit power - these are specified in Commission Decision 2013/752/EU and summarised in Annex C. Some bands allow only a low duty cycle, other allow a maximum duty cycle or "polite spectrum access", and if following the later, the relevant clauses must be met, which are summarised in Annex A. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 -Original Message- From: Amund Westin Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 8:10 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EN 300 220 - TX duty cycle for SDR The Duty Cycle at the operating frequency shall not be greater than values in annex B or any NRI for the chosen operational frequency band(s). From Annex B, table B.1: Channel access and occupation rules (e.g. Duty cycle or LBT + AFA) Duty cycle can be 10%, 1% or 0.1%, depending on the channels inside the different Operational Frequency Band Question: Is it possible to increase TX transmission above the allowed duty cycle limit, if the transmission includes LBT (Listen-Before-Talk)? Or are other techniques required? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] EN 300 220 - TX duty cycle for SDR
Amund The product has to meet the Spectrum Access requirements for the chosen band and transmit power - these are specified in Commission Decision 2013/752/EU and summarised in Annex C. Some bands allow only a low duty cycle, other allow a maximum duty cycle or "polite spectrum access", and if following the later, the relevant clauses must be met, which are summarised in Annex A. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 -Original Message- From: Amund Westin Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 8:10 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EN 300 220 - TX duty cycle for SDR The Duty Cycle at the operating frequency shall not be greater than values in annex B or any NRI for the chosen operational frequency band(s). From Annex B, table B.1: Channel access and occupation rules (e.g. Duty cycle or LBT + AFA) Duty cycle can be 10%, 1% or 0.1%, depending on the channels inside the different Operational Frequency Band Question: Is it possible to increase TX transmission above the allowed duty cycle limit, if the transmission includes LBT (Listen-Before-Talk)? Or are other techniques required? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] 61010-1 Stability test, Para 7.4 Stability
My 2p / 2c You’re presumably asking an NRTL to list your product so it can be a bit of a “their bat, their ball”, but I would ask them at what height are they applying the horizontal force as in my view it is unreasonable to do this above shoulder height, and even that is unrealistic for how people push things. If I understand correctly, the top of the robot is 70” above the floor – that is a very high height to push anything. SEMI-S8-1116 (2016) states that 95th Percentile Male (US) standing shoulder height is 61.9 inches (citing Pheasant (1998), MIL-STD-1472D(1994) and SAE J833(1989)). Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Steve Brody Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 5:37 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] 61010-1 Stability test, Para 7.4 Stability Experts: I need your opinions on the following. I am having a 'discussion' with an NRTL on a product that I can't show you a picture of but here is a description: * the base of the unit is 20" w x 26" l x 29" hf * the base of the unit is mounted on caster/leveling feet devices that when positioned for use, the leveling feet are lowered and the casters come off the ground, and the leveling feet are sufficiently rated for more than 4x the load of each corner * in the middle of the top of the base there is a robot mast for the Z axis, and it measures roughly 4" square and is 41" tall * the whole product weighs 220 lbs The stability requirements in 61010-1 are as follows, and I highlighted the text of interest: Equipment and assemblies of equipment not secured to the building structure before operation shall be physically stable. If means are provided to ensure that stability is maintained after the opening of drawers, etc. by an OPERATOR, either these means shall be automatic or there shall be a warning marking to apply the means. Each castor and support foot shall be RATED to support a load of at least 4 times its normal load, or the castors and support feet shall be tested according to d) and e), below. Conformity is checked by inspection and by carrying out each of the following tests, if applicable, to ensure that the equipment will not overbalance. Containers contain the RATED amount of substance which provides the least favourable conditions of NORMAL USE. Castors are in their least favourable position of NORMAL USE. Doors, drawers, etc. are closed unless otherwise specified below. 1. * Equipment other than HAND-HELD EQUIPMENT is tilted in each direction to an angle of 10° from its normal * Equipment which has both a height of 1 m or more and a mass of 25 kg or more, and all floor-standing equipment, has a force applied at its top, or at a height of 2 m if the equipment has a height of more than 2 The force is 250 N, or 20 % of the weight of the equipment, whichever is less, and is applied to all surfaces in directions which could cause the equipment to topple. Stabilizers used in NORMAL USE, and doors, drawers, etc., intended to be opened by an OPERATOR, are in their least favourable positions. * Floor-standing equipment has a force of 800 N applied downwards at the point of maximum moment to: * all horizontal working surfaces; * other surfaces providing an obvious ledge and which are not more than 1 m above floor Doors, drawers, etc. are closed, except that those intended to be opened by an OPERATOR are in their least favourable positions. When the force was applied at the top of the robot mast, it unit started to topple at 38 lbs, which is less than the required 44 lb force according to the standard. The case I presented why this test was not applicable was: * because the robot mast is located in the center of of the unit, and not flush with the sides, that it did not represent the same situation as a bookcase, filing cabinet, or other product which if someone were to bump into it, they would not be contacting the robot mast to due to the location in the center of the top. * the robot mast is part of a component and not part of the structure of the product, and so the test should be done at the top of the base unit, and no higher. * there is text in the user manual that says not to push on the robot mast when moving the product to new location * and, if absolutely necessary, we an add do not push labels at the top sides of the robot mast The NRTL rejected my rationale so I am looking to you to get your thoughts on this before I press on with them. Do you think the test is applicable? You can respond here publicly or privately, or at stev...@productehsconsulting.com<mailto:stevenb@prduct> Thanks in advance, Steve Brody sgbr...@comcast.net<mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net> C - 603 617 9116 __
Re: [PSES] Test lab in Germany - LVD testing
Amund Try Accredited Bodies - DAkkS - German Accreditation Body<https://www.dakks.de/en/accredited-bodies-search.html> with Search term "62368" and Conformity Assessment Activity "Testing Laboratory" Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 2:22 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Test lab in Germany - LVD testing On behalf of a local company, I'm looking for a German test lab within LVD testing (EN 62368-1). I have a listing of all CB scheme labs in Germany but would appreciate suggestions of other labs. Thanks! Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Mvh Amund Westin ** Cell: (+47) 920 17 031 E-mail: am...@westin-emission.no<mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> ** This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] UKCA Extension .... again
Lauren Just to confirm - the extension to 2027 is only for how the product must be labelled to show compliance with UKCA, and not whether it must comply with UKCA - i.e. they're allowing manufacturers and extra 3 years to update product labels, artwork and rating plates. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Lauren Crane <1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2024 11:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] UKCA Extension again Thanks for this Dean, In part it, pointed me towards the current UK incarnation of the LVD - that is to say, I had not noticed until now that the LVEESR (Low Voltage Electrical Equipment Safety Regulations) SI 1989 No. 728 had been replaced by the EESR (Electrical Equipment Safety Regulations) SI 2016 No. 1101. The delays built into the EESR and the SoMSR (Supply of Machinery Safety Regulations) SI 2008 No. 1597 seem to be similar - which is to be expected neither of them last indefinitely, so I guess we will have to wait and see if that promise is fulfilled. Instrument Allowing CE processes (incl. DoC) to stand (conditionally) for UKCA Allowing UKCA mark to be in product documentation rather than on the product. SoMSR SI 2008 No.1597 consolidated doc generated 15nov2023 incorporating F50 (SI 2022 No.1393) Allowed in regulation 12A The expiry of regulation 12A is defined in regulation 12B as "regulation 12A ceases to have effect at the end of the period of [F50 four years] beginning with IP completion day." - which equates to Dec 31, 2024 In regulation 7 point (2A) - "[F36(2A) For a period of [F37seven years] beginning with IP completion day, the UK marking may be affixed to- (a) a label affixed to the machinery; or (b) a document accompanying the machinery.]"- which equates to Dec 31, 2027. EESR SI 2016 No. 1101 consolidated doc generated 15nov2023 incorporating F54 (SI 2022 No.1393) Allowed in regulation 34A. The expiry of regulation 34A is defined in regulation 34B as "regulation 34A ceases to have effect at the end of the period of [F54 four years] beginning with IP completion day." - which equates to Dec 31, 2024. In regulation 39 point (1A) - "[F66(1A) For a period of [F67seven years] beginning with IP completion day, the UK marking maybe affixed to- (a) a label affixed to the electrical equipment; or (b) to a document accompanying the electrical equipment;]" - which equates to Dec 31, 2027 But note there is a further provision that kicks in following the expiry of the above and allows the UKCA mark in a document+package if the equipment is too small (or other issues) - and this provision does not expire. "(2) Where [F68paragraph (1A) does not apply and] it is not possible or warranted, on account of the nature of the electrical equipment, to affix the [F69UK] marking in accordance with paragraph (1),the [F69UK] marking must be affixed to- (a) the packaging; and (b) the accompanying documents." Best Regards, -Lauren From: Jurgensen, Dean mailto:djurgen...@delta-q.com>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 9:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] UKCA Extension again You don't often get email from djurgen...@delta-q.com<mailto:djurgen...@delta-q.com>. Learn why this is important<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> External Email: Do NOT reply, click on links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you believe this email may be unsafe, please click on the "Report Phishing" button on the top right of Outlook. Hello Colleagues, RE: Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 2016 Here is what I was able to find: General guidance site: On this site page: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking "The government intends to introduce legislation to extend recognition of goods that meet EU requirements, including the CE marking, indefinitely, beyond 31 December 2024 for many products. This will mean that certain goods that meet EU requirements can be placed on the GB market. These updates apply to the 18 regulations that fall under the Department for Business and Trade (DBT). Manufacturers will have the choice to use either the CE marking or other recognised EU markings (where permitted), or the UKCA marking to supply products to Great Britain in the following areas: ..." === The UK regulation Section 34A - seems to allow for CE Marking: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/1101/regulation/34A And The UK regulation Section 34B - seems to allow for CE Marking for an extended period of time after the expiry of Section 34A: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/1101/regulation/34
Re: [PSES] UKCA Extension .... again
Lauren "The Government intends to introduce" Is as much as we have so far. It's a press release / announcement from one Government department that does not have responsibilities for all UK regulations (for example, it doesn't enforce RoHS which is applicable to lots of products covered by other regulations they are responsible for) It is also worth noting that there will be a general election in the UK in 2024, so quite how focused the government will be on bringing out this extension I leave as an exercise for the reader. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Lauren Crane <1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 6:02 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] UKCA Extension again Hello Experts, In Nov 22 we (this listserve) were discussing the UKCA extension aiming to allow CE marking to stand in for UKCA for a longer period. We were tracking a related statutory instrument, which I believe has been released as SI 2022 No. 1393 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/1393/contents/made). This SI 1393, however, does not appear to extend the deadline indefinitely. According to a accompanying explanatory memorandum (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/1393/memorandum/contents) ... "the instrument makes only the necessary changes to extend the time period for recognition of products meeting EU requirements and markings until 31 December 2024, to extend existing labelling easements until 31 December 2027, and extending the time period to allow any steps taken under EU conformity procedures before 31 December 2024 to be considered valid to demonstrate compliance with UKCA, for the duration of the certificates issued or until 31 December 2027, whichever is the sooner." Nonetheless, a couple official uk.gov webpages (e.g., https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking) say "The government intends to introduce legislation to extend recognition of goods that meet EU requirements, including the CE marking, indefinitely, beyond 31 December 2024 for many products." I cannot identify any SI in the works that will provide the alleged indefinite extension. Does anyone on the list have more certain information about the indefinite extension they could share? Best Regards, -Lauren LAM RESEARCH CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, (collectively, "E-mail Transmission") may be subject to one or more of the following based on the associated sensitivity level: E-mail Transmission (i) contains confidential information, (ii) is prohibited from distribution outside of Lam, and/or (iii) is intended solely for and restricted to the specified recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk. Thank you. Confidential - Limited Access and Use This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to uns
Re: [PSES] FCC label for White Labeled products
Brian
If you have integrated a FCC module, with modular certification, your product
label should state "contains FCC ID:XX" where XX is the FCC ID
of the module.
Unless you have separately certified your product as a radio transmitter,
there's no other FCC ID label for you to apply and your strategic partner would
apply the same label.
Best regards
Charlie
Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
From: Brian Gregory
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 10:06 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] FCC label for White Labeled products
Hello experts,
Our existing product label has our FCC ID, just under the FCC logo in the
classic form:x-y, where
x = the FCC ID of the imbedded, compliant WiFi model ("Grantee Code" in
FCC lingo), and
y = our product name, per the UL label. ("Product Code" ).
We're trying to offer a label to our strategic partner who is selling the same
product under their product name: z.
So, it seemed obvious to label that product's FCC ID as x-z.
I'm trying to confirm this from FCC on this, and can't find much in the way of
official guidance, nor any response from the help ticket I pulled nor on our
FRN registration page.
Anybody else have experience with alternate product codes on FCC labelling?
Colorado Brian
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Re: [PSES] EU Cyber Resilience Act
Amund It's very likely to be in scope for that reason. The Commission are writing a guide for this which will be published next year Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2023 1:03 PM To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: SV: [PSES] EU Cyber Resilience Act I guess such "in house temp sensor" is within the Cyber security scope ... https://eur-lex.europa.eu/resource.html?uri=cellar:864f472b-34e9-11ed-9c68-01aa75ed71a1.0001.02/DOC_1&format=PDF Article 2 Scope 1. This Regulation applies to products with digital elements whose intended or reasonably foreseeable use includes a direct or indirect logical or physical data connection to a device or network. * The wording means devices where the wireless data trafic must pass other devices before it's on the Internet ... ? BR Amund Fra: Amund Westin Sendt: 28. november 2023 13:43 Til: 'Charlie Blackham' mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>>; 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Emne: SV: [PSES] EU Cyber Resilience Act Great Information, Charlie. One thing ... Let's say a temperature sensor on NB-IoT (sim card) is definitely a radio product which is connected to the internet. But what about the same temperature sensor when using BLE, Zigbee or other typical smart house protocols, not directly connected to the Internet, but to a local in-house gateway, which the gateway itself is connected to Internet by wire or radio. Will that "in house temp sensor" be classified as "connected to Internet", so the Cyber Resilience Act will apply even for such sensors? BR Amund Fra: Charlie Blackham Sendt: 28. november 2023 09:32 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Emne: Re: [PSES] EU Cyber Resilience Act Amund The RED has requirements that are separate, but aligned with, the Cyber Resilience Act Delegated Regulation (EU) 2022/30 which relates to Articles 3.3(d), 3.3(e), and 3.3(f) of the Radio Equipment Directive (RED), which is now applicable from 1st August 2025 as per Delegated Regulation (EU) 2023/2444. Applicable sections of Article 3.3: d) No harm to network - any radio that communicates over the internet e) Privacy of the user - any radio processing personal data, traffic data, location f) Protection from Fraud - any radio enabling money transfer CENELEC are developing three Article 3.3 standards, one for each of these parts: * EN 18031-1: Common security requirements for radio equipment Part 1: Internet connected radio equipment * EN 18031-2: Common security requirements for radio equipment Part 2: radio equipment processing data, namely Internet connected radio equipment, childcare radio equipment, toys radio equipment and wearable radio equipment * EN 18031-3: Common security requirements for radio equipment Part 3: Internet connected radio equipment processing virtual money or monetary value The plan is that these will be published by CENELEC but 30th June 2024 and that these will be listed in the OJ by the EU Commission and become "Harmonised Standards listed in the Official Journal" If they are accepted by the EU and listed, then manufacturers will be able to apply them and self-declare. If they aren't, manufacturers will have to use a Notified Body Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2023 7:48 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] EU Cyber Resilience Act I have heard rumors about August 01, 2025, from that date the EU Cyber Resilience Act is mandatory and part of the CE marking (for relevant RED/radio products) Is it correct rumors? BR Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.ba
Re: [PSES] EU Cyber Resilience Act
Amund The RED has requirements that are separate, but aligned with, the Cyber Resilience Act Delegated Regulation (EU) 2022/30 which relates to Articles 3.3(d), 3.3(e), and 3.3(f) of the Radio Equipment Directive (RED), which is now applicable from 1st August 2025 as per Delegated Regulation (EU) 2023/2444. Applicable sections of Article 3.3: d) No harm to network - any radio that communicates over the internet e) Privacy of the user - any radio processing personal data, traffic data, location f) Protection from Fraud - any radio enabling money transfer CENELEC are developing three Article 3.3 standards, one for each of these parts: * EN 18031-1: Common security requirements for radio equipment Part 1: Internet connected radio equipment * EN 18031-2: Common security requirements for radio equipment Part 2: radio equipment processing data, namely Internet connected radio equipment, childcare radio equipment, toys radio equipment and wearable radio equipment * EN 18031-3: Common security requirements for radio equipment Part 3: Internet connected radio equipment processing virtual money or monetary value The plan is that these will be published by CENELEC but 30th June 2024 and that these will be listed in the OJ by the EU Commission and become "Harmonised Standards listed in the Official Journal" If they are accepted by the EU and listed, then manufacturers will be able to apply them and self-declare. If they aren't, manufacturers will have to use a Notified Body Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2023 7:48 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EU Cyber Resilience Act I have heard rumors about August 01, 2025, from that date the EU Cyber Resilience Act is mandatory and part of the CE marking (for relevant RED/radio products) Is it correct rumors? BR Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2014
Amund If a standard is listed in the OJ, it continues to provide a “presumption of conformity” even it has been “withdrawn” by the standards committee. The 2020 version of 62368-1 will not be listed in the OJ The 2023 version of 62368-1 was rejected by the EU Commission but it looks as though CENELEC voting will see it published anyway. IEC test reports and CB certificates are not required for CE marking and they remain valid in other countries until those national authorities have withdrawn them Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 7:08 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] SV: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2014 Hi all Any news about the future standing for the EN62368-1 : 2014? My understanding is that EN62368-1 : 2020 is still not listed in OJ, even though it should replace EN62368-1 : 2014 in June 2024. In parallel, EN62368-1 : 2023 is still under work and what do we expect as a date to replace 2014 and 2020 version? In our case, we have a CB test certificate & report according to EN62368-1 : 2014 and would hope it would be valid at least a year or two more. BR Amund Fra: Scott Xe Sendt: 8. desember 2022 10:12 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Emne: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2014 Dear All, Thanks for your comments! It said version 4 will be issued in 2023 and hope there is less chance to have amendments during the extension period. Best regards, Scott On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 at 00:42, Scott Xe mailto:scott...@gmail.com>> wrote: CENELEC recently extended DoW for 18 months from 06/01/2023 to 06/07/2024. What are the impacts on importers/manufacturers, test houses and market surveillances? EN 62368-1 : 2014 is still valid for LVD/RED in EUOJ. All the relevant products should follow this version for EU markets. What is the point of this change to them? In general the test houses give unclear interpretations to their clients in this aspect. Sometimes, they follow EUOJ requirements but sometimes CENELEC. Some importers/manufacturers also confuse which requirements to follow. Some countries also may not adopt the latest IEC/EN standard as their national standards. Can't withdrawn standards be used? Thanks and best regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail
Re: [PSES] SV: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] General Product Safety Directive (GPSD)
Amund The difficult part is ensuring "which can't be bought or even used by consumers" - even if it is only sold or supplied on a B2B basis, is it the type of product and employee could take home with them for personal use or whilst "working from home". Most national legislation requires equipment used in the workplace to be safe, so whether you could sell B2B equipment without any safety related tests would need to be considered and in any case, reasons should be considered as part of product compliance risk assessment Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 7:41 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] SV: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] General Product Safety Directive (GPSD) Thanks Ted, As I read your comments and take they into an example - ... consider a professional electronic product, which can't be bought or even used by consumers, will not under any circumstances be covered by GPSD/GPSR. Right? And if product is low powered (not within LVD), then maybe only EMC apply. Then the product could be put on the market without any safety related tests Is that correct? BR Amund Fra: Ted Eckert Sendt: 31. oktober 2023 16:10 Til: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Emne: RE: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] General Product Safety Directive (GPSD) Hello Amund, The GPSR has these definitions. I recommend you use them as the basis to determine if you are providing "consumer products" as covered by the scope of the GPSR. "'product' means any item, whether or not it is interconnected to other items, supplied or made available, whether for consideration or not, including in the context of providing a service, which is intended for consumers or is likely, under reasonably foreseeable conditions, to be used by consumers even if not intended for them". "'consumer' means any natural person who acts for purposes which are outside that person's trade, bushiness, craft or profession". There is no clear line drawn between consumer and professional equipment, and the GPSR is intended to cover professional equipment that is likely to be purchased for personal use by some consumers. Products that fall into this grey area may need to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. I would recommend that if you determine a product is not within the scope, your technical file include a clear explanation of why it is out of scope. Best regard, Ted Eckert The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2023 7:54 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] General Product Safety Directive (GPSD) General Product Safety Directive ... Do I interpret correct that GPSD only apply to consumer products? Not for any professional products? And the new General Product Safety Regulation (GPSR) do the same? BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Femc-pstc%40listserv.ieee.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C82a5efa6086f42d6b47408dbda213cd3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638343608539495156%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GuUoKfcLXvrJyMAlwC4ppBfGXqIA3K0rhanBtbC1XF4%3D&reserved=0<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/> Website: https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fewh.ieee.org%2Fsoc%2Fpses%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C82a5efa6086f42d6b47408dbda213cd3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638343608539504370%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=M0KYrWP9A3foeuyjUE75DvRaVQURs4wWLqPTD%2FdbU4Q%3D&reserved=0<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/> Instructions: https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fewh.ieee.org%2Fsoc%2Fpses%2Flist.html&data=05%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7C82a5efa6086f42d6b47408dbda213cd3%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638343608539509465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C30
Re: [PSES] [PSES] IEC/EN62368-1 includes requirements (Annex M) to IEC/EN 62133-2
Amund If the battery manufacturer knows what they are doing you may well find that the battery has been “designed to comply” with IEC 62133-2 but that particular variant has not been subjected to certification testing as they were waiting on a minimum order, or a customer who needed it. A competent battery manufacturer should be able to arrange this for you as a matter of routine for a fee. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Chris Wordley <251cd282cc37-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 9:26 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [PSES] IEC/EN62368-1 includes requirements (Annex M) to IEC/EN 62133-2 Hi Amund UN38.3 only addresses battery transportation, covering both expected conditions and likely mishandling / abuse situations, to demonstrate that they are safe to transport. The battery isn’t usually operational during this phase of its life. So although some tests are similar, UN38.3 cannot be considered an alternative to IEC 62133-2. Chris On 16 Oct 2023, at 19:31, Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> wrote: Thanks, James! Seems we might have an issue here since the cells are not IEC62133-2 approved. But the cells are UN38.3 certified. And we are now running UN38.3 on the complete product (product and cells includes). Do you know if such UN38.3 tests will be good as IEC62133-2 compliance? BR Amund -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: James Pawson (U3C) Sendt: 16. oktober 2023 16:39 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Emne: Re: [PSES] IEC/EN62368-1 includes requirements (Annex M) to IEC/EN 62133-2 Hi Amund, Annex M (batteries) is normative = shall comply. You only get to comply with Annex M if you pass M.2.1 which requires that cells comply with the relevant IEC standard. IEC 62133 (all parts) are in Annex ZA as an undated reference meaning you should be looking to use the latest one - this is currently IEC 62133-2:2017+A1:2021. Many (reputable) battery manufacturers will be aware of this and will have battery packs that are pre-certified to the latest standard. All the best James James Pawson Managing Director & EMC Problem Solver Unit 3 Compliance Ltd EMC : Environmental & Vibration : Electrical Safety : CE & UKCA : Consultancy www.unit3compliance.co.uk<http://www.unit3compliance.co.uk> | ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk<mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk> +44(0)1274 911747 | +44(0)7811 139957 2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL Registered in England and Wales # 10574298 -Original Message- From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 3:27 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] IEC/EN62368-1 includes requirements (Annex M) to IEC/EN 62133-2 An IT product must comply to EN62368-1. It contains Lithium LiPo batter. According to EN/IEC62368-1-1:2020, § M.2 Safety of batteries and their cells, the standard IEC 62133-2 is listed, and batteries and cells shall comply according to that standard. Could this be interpreted as an invariable requirement, that if you are to fulfill EN62368-1 and have LiPo cells in your product, then the cells must comply with this standard IEC 62133-2? How well known is IEC 62133-2? Thanks! BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/
Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] Directives that require the CE Marking
Me again 😊 The opening sentence tells you to tread carefully: The CE mark is a certification mark that indicates conformity with health, safety, and environmental protection standards for products sold within the European Economic Area (EEA * It’s not a “certification” mark * Not all CE marking Directives cover safety or health * There are no CE marking Directives that cover environmental protection * The rules don’t apply to products “sold”, they apply to products “placed on the market” – there doesn’t need to be a monetary exchange, and the lack of one does not put you out of scope Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: rmm.priv...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 4:56 PM To: Charlie Blackham Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] AW: [PSES] Directives that require the CE Marking I agree that tools like ChatGPT have a long way to go before their response can be trusted without question, but the response below is from the free version. The $20 a month version might provide a clearer answer. I use ChatGPT as a starting point for topics I have some familiarity with, then I drill down on the details. I asked ChatGPT “under what conditions should I not apply the CE Mark ?”, and it answered: = The CE mark is a certification mark that indicates conformity with health, safety, and environmental protection standards for products sold within the European Economic Area (EEA). It demonstrates that a product complies with the relevant EU directives and regulations. However, there are certain conditions or situations where you should not apply the CE mark: 1. Non-conforming products: If your product does not meet the essential requirements or standards specified by the relevant EU directives or regulations, you should not apply the CE mark. It is essential to ensure that your product complies with all applicable requirements before affixing the CE mark. 2. Non-covered products: Some products or product categories may not be covered by specific EU directives or regulations, and therefore, the CE mark may not be applicable to them. Always check whether your product falls under any relevant EU legislation before considering the CE mark. 3. Self-declaration without applicable legislation: In some cases, a manufacturer may incorrectly self-declare conformity and affix the CE mark to a product without any applicable EU directive or regulation. This is not allowed, and the CE mark should only be applied when there is clear and relevant legislation to comply with. 4. Non-EEA sales: The CE mark is primarily intended for products intended for sale within the EEA. If your product is not intended for the EEA market, applying the CE mark may not be necessary. However, you should comply with the regulatory requirements of the specific market where you intend to sell your product. 5. Unauthorized use: The CE mark should only be applied by manufacturers or authorized representatives who have fulfilled the necessary conformity assessment procedures and legal obligations. Unauthorized use of the CE mark is not allowed and can result in legal consequences. 6. False or misleading information: Providing false or misleading information, documentation, or test results to obtain the CE mark is illegal and should not be done under any circumstances. It's crucial to consult with regulatory authorities, experts, or legal counsel knowledgeable about the specific product and its applicable regulations to ensure compliance with CE marking requirements. Incorrectly applying the CE mark can lead to legal consequences, including fines and product recalls. == Ralph From: Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>> Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2023 1:17 AM To: rmm.priv...@gmail.com<mailto:rmm.priv...@gmail.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] AW: [PSES] Directives that require the CE Marking A nice example of why ChatGPT won’t put us all out of a job just yet 😊 Point 9 is wrong – you may not use the CE mark to demonstrate compliance with a “non CE marking” Directive, that is one that does not contain the provision for CE marking within its Articles or Annexes Point 3 does not make it clear that the Directive also includes products that are “likely, under reasonably foreseeable conditions, to be used by consumers even if not intended for them” – an example of this would be something like a corporate branded battery pack phone charger which is supplied only on a B2B basis, but is likely to be taken home by the recipient Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackha
Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] Directives that require the CE Marking
A nice example of why ChatGPT won’t put us all out of a job just yet 😊 Point 9 is wrong – you may not use the CE mark to demonstrate compliance with a “non CE marking” Directive, that is one that does not contain the provision for CE marking within its Articles or Annexes Point 3 does not make it clear that the Directive also includes products that are “likely, under reasonably foreseeable conditions, to be used by consumers even if not intended for them” – an example of this would be something like a corporate branded battery pack phone charger which is supplied only on a B2B basis, but is likely to be taken home by the recipient Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Ralph McDiarmid Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 10:59 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] Directives that require the CE Marking Here’s what ChatGPT told me about this directive: The General Product Safety Directive (2001/95/EC) in the European Union (EU) is a legal framework designed to ensure the safety of consumer products placed on the EU market. It sets out general requirements for the safety of products, regardless of whether specific product safety regulations exist for them. Here are key aspects of the General Product Safety Directive (GPSD): 1. Scope: The GPSD applies to all consumer products, excluding food, pharmaceuticals, medical devices, cosmetics, and chemicals, which are covered by other specific regulations. 2. Safety Requirement: The primary objective of the GPSD is to ensure that products placed on the market are safe for consumers when used under normal or reasonably foreseeable conditions. Manufacturers and distributors have an obligation to provide safe products. 3. Definition of Consumer Products: The directive defines "consumer products" broadly to encompass any product intended for consumers, including both new and second-hand products. 4. Obligations of Economic Operators: Economic operators, including manufacturers, importers, and distributors, must ensure that products they place on the market are safe. They are responsible for assessing and managing risks, monitoring product safety, and taking corrective actions if safety issues arise. 5. Traceability: Economic operators must be able to trace the origin of the products they handle and, if necessary, inform the relevant authorities and consumers about safety issues or recalls. 6. Rapid Alert System: The GPSD establishes a Rapid Alert System for Non-Food (RAPEX) to facilitate the rapid exchange of information about dangerous products among EU member states and the European Commission. This system helps to ensure that dangerous products are quickly removed from the market. 7. Market Surveillance: EU member states are responsible for carrying out market surveillance activities to ensure compliance with the GPSD. They can take measures such as conducting inspections, ordering recalls, or imposing fines for non-compliance. 8. Cooperation with Other EU Legislation: The GPSD complements other EU product safety regulations, such as the Toy Safety Directive or the Machinery Directive. In cases where specific product safety legislation exists, that legislation takes precedence. 9. CE Marking: While the GPSD does not require products to bear the CE marking (a conformity marking indicating compliance with EU safety standards), manufacturers may choose to use it to demonstrate compliance with the directive. 10. Harmonized Standards: Manufacturers can use harmonized European standards to demonstrate compliance with the GPSD's safety requirements. The General Product Safety Directive plays a crucial role in protecting consumers within the EU by establishing a baseline level of safety for a wide range of consumer products. It encourages manufacturers and other economic operators to ensure that their products are safe for use and allows for swift action in the event of safety concerns. It is important to note that the GPSD is subject to updates and amendments to align with changing safety requirements and technological advancements. Ralph From: Dürrer Bernd mailto:bernd.duer...@wilo.com>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2023 6:44 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] AW: [PSES] Directives that require the CE Marking Hello Brian, in lack of any more specific EU Directive, a product will be in the scope of the General Product Safety Directive 2001/95/EC (Consolidated TEXT: 32001L0095 — EN — 01.01.2010 (europa.eu)<https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:02001L0095-20100101#tocId3>) that covers any product intended for consumers. As far as I know, the GPSD does neither require a CE Declaration of Conformity, nor CE marking on the prod
Re: [PSES] Labelling in Canada
Niels The applicable standard is ICES-003 issue 7. This standard allows one of 2 test methods to be used, CAN/CSA-CISPR 32:17 or ANSI C63.4, but the standard you are stating compliance to is ICES-003. If you follow the CAN/CSA-CISPR 32 test method this is detailed in the report but no reference is made to it on the label or in the user manual Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Niels Hougaard <27ee5df789dc-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2023 3:03 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Labelling in Canada Hi Bart, Thanks for answering. I have looked into pages like this, and I think that my question actually can be turned into: Does Canada accept CISPR 32? If so it must be this standard that has to be mentioned on the label. Mvh./Regards, Niels Hougaard Bolls ApS Denmark Tlf. 4818 3566 Direkte 5379 6991 www.bolls.dk<http://www.bolls.dk> Fra: "bart de geeter" mailto:bart.de.gee...@telenet.be>> Til: "Niels Hougaard" mailto:n...@bolls.dk>>, "EMC-PSTC" mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Sendt: fredag, 6. oktober 2023 12:13:27 Emne: RE: [PSES] Labelling in Canada Hi Niels, Did you look into the below webpage? https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/spectrum-management-telecommunications/en/devices-and-equipment/interference-causing-equipment-standards-ices/ices-gen-general-requirements-compliance-interference-causing-equipment#s5.3 Greetings, Bart From: Niels Hougaard <27ee5df789dc-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:27ee5df789dc-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> Sent: vrijdag 6 oktober 2023 10:03 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Labelling in Canada Hello, Product in question is a loudspeaker for commercial marked. It is going to be sold in Canada and question is, if the labelling concerning EMC should be This Class B apparatus complies with Canadian ICES-003. Cet appareil de la classe B est conforme à la norme NMB-003 du Canada. or if Canada accept CISPR 32 so that the labelling should be This apparatus complies with Can/CSA CISPR 32-17 (B) Cet appareil est conforme à la norme NMB-CISPR 32-17 du Canada. Mvh./Regards, Niels Hougaard Bolls ApS Denmark Tlf. 4818 3566 Direkte 5379 6991 www.bolls.dk<http://www.bolls.dk> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: ht
Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes
Television and radio receivers are within scope of RED 😊 (they weren’t under R&TTE) @Amund Westin<mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> – you should be careful determining whether your item is “test equipment” or “radio equipment” – wideband spectrum monitoring equipment which can receive and determine some information from the received signal then it would be “radio equipment” under RED Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Ralph McDiarmid Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2023 12:23 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes Given the reasoning you propose, your spectrum analyser, as an unintentional radiator, should be out of scope of the RED. If it were, then all television and radio receivers would also fall under the RED. From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2023 10:51 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes Hi Charlie I was made aware that in the RED Guide, there is something about equipment that does not fall under the RED. 1.6.3.3 Products that use electromagnetic waves exclusively for other purposes than radio communication and/or radiodetermination Products and applications that use electromagnetic waves exclusively for other purposes than radio communication and/or radiodetermination (products that propagate electromagnetic waves in space, but this propagation is not intended and not used for the purpose of radio communication or radiodetermination.) are not covered by the RED, for example: inductive warming and heating appliances; pure wireless power transfer (without any communication or radiodetermination); high frequency surgical equipment and systems; cookware suitable for inductive heating appliances; test equipment if intended to use radio waves, exclusively, for testing other devices (18) Footnote 18: Needs to be assessed on a case-by-case basis, in order to determine if a specific type of test equipment is covered (or not covered) by the RED. The product in this case is a receiver-only product (with an external antenna connected) and its main purpose is to analyze a received signal from another radio (VHF/UHF) product. So, it is a professional test / analyze radio receiver equipment. It can be compared to a portable spectrum analyzer with an external dipole antenna connected. With this additional information, do you think we are still within RED or are we now outside RED? ….. Best regards Amund Fra: Charlie Blackham Sendt: 5. september 2023 09:35 Til: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Emne: RE: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes Amund Yes, receivers are within scope of RED as they meet the definition of “radio equipment” in article 2: ‘radio equipment’ means an electrical or electronic product, which intentionally emits and/or receives radio waves for the purpose of radio communication and/or radiodetermination, or an electrical or electronic product which must be completed with an accessory, such as antenna, so as to intentionally emit and/or receive radio waves for the purpose of radio communication and/or radiodetermination; Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 7:17 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes I think we have discussed this topic previous, but I can’t find the email tread. But I assume it is the fact the equipment that even only receive, will anyway be included under RED. In this case, it’s a radio receiver measurement device with whip antenna mounted and that receives in the VHF/UHF range. From RED text, page 2: (11) Although receivers do not themselves cause harmful interference, reception capabilities are an increasingly important factor in ensuring the efficient use of radio spectrum by way of an increased resilience of receivers against harmful interference and unwanted signals on the basis of the relevant essential requirements of Union harmonisation legislation. Thanks! BR Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website
Re: [PSES] 50Hz Product and the EMC Directive
Scott If you read the Guide to the EMC Directive, specifically section 1.4.4 Inherently benign equipment you will find multiple references to certain product categories being exempt only if they are “without active electronic parts or active components;” A transistor is an active component. So whilst you are very likely to have no EMC emissions or immunity issues, I would not be able to write an argument that exempts your product from the Directive. You EMC assessment against Harmonised Standards does not mandate testing against all aspects of them, but I would imagine that at least some radiated and conducted emissions would be diligent. In the absence of a product standard, the Generic Standards, EN 61000-6-x are the appropriate route and the ones you should assess against and list on the DoC. As an aside, a Notified Body cannot state that a product is inside or outside the scope of the Directive as that is outside of their remit under the Directive and their accreditation. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Douglas Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 2:35 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] 50Hz Product and the EMC Directive Hello List Experts, We have a product that operates at line frequency (50 or 60 Hz). It is a power conditioner which includes filtering, surge suppression, and extreme voltage shut down. It is purely analog and contains nothing more complex than transistors. We believe the EU EMC Directive does not apply to the product because it does not operate any higher than 60 Hz and cannot generate EMI whether radiated or conducted. From EU Directive 2014/30/EU, Article 2 (2 (d)): 2. This Directive shall not apply to: (d) equipment the inherent nature of the physical characteristics of which is such that: (i) it is incapable of generating or contributing to electromagnetic emissions which exceed a level allowing radio and telecommunication equipment and other equipment to operate as intended; and (ii) it operates without unacceptable degradation in the presence of the electromagnetic disturbance normally consequent upon its intended use; I am not aware of any EMI standards that cover this type of product, most conducted EMI starts at 9kHz or 150 kHz, and radiated EMI typically starts at 30 MHz. There is an inspector in an EU country that believes the EMC Directive does apply. Their letter makes these statements: The EU Declaration of Conformity (DoC) is incorrect or incomplete (Article 15; Annex IV; etc. of EU Directive 2014/30/EU). A conformity assessment procedure seems to be incomplete (Article 14) to demonstrate that the apparatus meets the essential requirements set out in Article 6 and Annex I of EU Directive 2014/30/EU. EU Directive 2014/30/EU is missing. Our DofC does not list the EMC Directive, specifically because we think it does not apply. It also does not list any EMI/EMC standards as we find none that apply. Is there a Harmonized Standard that would cover this type of product for the EMC Directive? Is it normal to list a directive in a DofC if that directive does not apply? How does one convince the inspector that the directive does not apply? Looking forward to any and all comments. Scott This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the li
Re: [PSES] RED certificate - validity period
Amund There’s no explicit validity date in the Directive and I’ve seen different NBs use different expiration dates, however, RED Annex III, Module B, para 7 states: The notified body shall keep itself apprised of any changes in the generally acknowledged state of the art which indicate that the approved type may no longer comply with the applicable requirements of this Directive, and shall determine whether such changes require further investigation. If so, the notified body shall inform the manufacturer accordingly. The manufacturer shall inform the notified body that holds the technical documentation relating to the EU-type examination certificate of all modifications to the approved type that may affect the conformity of the radio equipment with the essential requirements of this Directive or the conditions for validity of that certificate. Such modifications shall require additional approval in the form of an addition to the original EU-type examination certificate. The RED certificate is never “irrevecoably valid” until the expiration date as the state of the art may have changed, including Harmonised Standards being superceded and, of course, the product may have changed to an extent that the original assessment needs to be reviewed Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Friday, September 22, 2023 5:56 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] RED certificate - validity period The RED EU-Type Examination Certificates I have seen, are valid for 4 years. Is the validity period something regulated by the EU or is it up to the Notified Body to set the period on the RED certificate? Best regards Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely
Sam Those directives are enforced by a different UK government department that didn’t put out a press release. There’s been no further communication on this issue so we’re really waiting to see what the draft legislation says when that’s published (whenever that may be) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Sam Davis <163be7cdf3a8-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 6:10 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely In reviewing this, I don’t see that it addresses RoHS and Ecodesign directives. Would products in scope of these directives still require the UKCA mark by December 2024? SAM Davis Sr. Regulatory Engineering Manager Customer Engineering Services www.jabil.com<https://www.jabil.com/> From: Matthew Wilson | GBE mailto:matthew.wil...@gbelectronics.com>> Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2023 4:41 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] UK extends CE mark recognition indefinitely CAUTION: This email was sent from a third party outside of your organization. Please DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you believe this email is not safe, please DO NOT forward this email. Report this email by right-clicking on the email in your folder view, selecting "Junk", then "Report Phishing". https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ukca-marking-conformity-assessment-and-documentation Reporting: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown - the funny bit here is that the original article was accompanied by a picture of a non-compliant CE logo, as per the final note “The image accompanying this article was changed on 1 August 2023, to one of a CE mark that adheres more closely to EU guidance on how it should be reproduced” The [UK] government intends to extend recognition of the CE marking for placing most goods on the market in Great Britain, indefinitely, beyond December 2024. These updates apply to the 18 regulations that fall under the Department for Business and Trade (DBT). These are: * toys * pyrotechnics * recreational craft and personal watercraft * simple pressure vessels * electromagnetic compatibility * non-automatic weighing instruments * measuring instruments * measuring container bottles * lifts * equipment for potentially explosive atmospheres (ATEX) * radio equipment * pressure equipment * personal protective equipment (PPE) * gas appliances * machinery * equipment for use outdoors * aerosols * low voltage electrical equipment [cid:image002.png@01D9EB91.D6EAD600] Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the company, unless specifically stated. GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under number 06210991. Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website:
Re: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes
Amund Yes, receivers are within scope of RED as they meet the definition of “radio equipment” in article 2: ‘radio equipment’ means an electrical or electronic product, which intentionally emits and/or receives radio waves for the purpose of radio communication and/or radiodetermination, or an electrical or electronic product which must be completed with an accessory, such as antenna, so as to intentionally emit and/or receive radio waves for the purpose of radio communication and/or radiodetermination; Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 7:17 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes I think we have discussed this topic previous, but I can’t find the email tread. But I assume it is the fact the equipment that even only receive, will anyway be included under RED. In this case, it’s a radio receiver measurement device with whip antenna mounted and that receives in the VHF/UHF range. From RED text, page 2: (11) Although receivers do not themselves cause harmful interference, reception capabilities are an increasingly important factor in ensuring the efficient use of radio spectrum by way of an increased resilience of receivers against harmful interference and unwanted signals on the basis of the relevant essential requirements of Union harmonisation legislation. Thanks! BR Amund This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Fw: FCC/ISED file change update
Brian > I can't find the legal language in Part 15 that spells this out; does anyone know? It’s not in part 15 😊 Part 2.1043<https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/section-2.1043> and FCC KDB 178919 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Brian Gregory Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2023 11:13 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Fw: FCC/ISED file change update Good afternoon, I'll repeat my earlier story and give the group an update. We have made some small changes to our product (prominently to Y-caps, and some beads) which unfortunately did not increase our margin vs EMC limits, but the product still passes FCC and ISED. Engineering wanted to use the self-declaration process to document these changes, including passing test results w/o going through the TCB and re-file process. The changes do appear to classify for what CFR 47, Part 15 § 2.1043 call a class II permissive change, but it's just as certain that the original FCC and ISED ID's are still valid as the product is roughly the same, still passes emission limits and made no changes to the WiFi system (same chip, location, antenna, and firmware). I've been told - by (a) an engineer from a well-known EMC/TCB, and (b) an engineer at a local EMC test lab - that Class II permissive change only applies to intentional radiators. I can't find the legal language in Part 15 that spells this out; does anyone know? Does anyone want to confirm Engineering's assertion that SDoC will suffice? Thanks, Colorado Brian Please note: forwarded message attached From: David Schaefer mailto:david.schae...@element.com>> To: Brian Gregory mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net>>, "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>" mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Subject: RE: [PSES] Necessary Lab accreditations, class 2 permissible change Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 15:42:24 + This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR
Scott Requirements on instructions to be in printed format are often included/implied in safety standards – for example EN 62368-1:2014: F.4 Instructions When information with regard to safety is required according to this standard, this information shall be given in an instruction for installation or instruction for initial use. This information shall be available prior to installation and initial use of the equipment. The final sentence precludes safety instructions being embedded on the device Article 10(8) of the RED states: Manufacturers shall ensure that the radio equipment is accompanied by instructions and safety information in a language which can be easily understood by consumers and other end-users, as determined by the Member State concerned. Section 2.6(j) of the RED Guide states: The Blue Guide, in Chapter 3.1.4, provides more details on how the instructions and safety information need to be provided. According to the Blue Guide, whilst the safety information needs to be provided on paper, it is not required that all the set of instructions is also provided on paper but they can also be on electronic or other data storage format, however a paper version should always be available free of charge for the consumers who request it. It is noted that the information in Article 10.8 (second sub-paragraph) and Article 10.10, as is specifically required by the RED and not directly related with the general instructions of use, shall be provided in paper. The practical application of this is a short printed guide shipped with the product. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:27 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR Dear Bernd, Thanks for your good references! The LVD and RED do not decline the instructions in electronic format. What about those instructions embedded in the ROM as the memory is not expensive as before? For example, mobile phones, TVs, etc. Regards, Scott On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 15:14, Dürrer Bernd mailto:bernd.duer...@wilo.com>> wrote: Hi Amund, In the European Union, it depends on the Directive that is applicable for your product. Both the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU (L_2014096EN.01035701.xml (europa.eu)<https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32014L0035#d1e32-371-1>, Article 6, Point 7, Article 8, Point 4, and Article 9, Point 2) and the Radio Directive 2014/53/EU (Consolidated TEXT: 32014L0053 — EN — 27.12.2022 (europa.eu)<https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:02014L0053-20221227#tocId84>, Article 10, Point 8, Article 12, Point 4, and Article 13, Point 2) require that manufacturers, importers, and distributors ensure that the product is accompanied by instructions and safety information. Only new regulation (EU) 2023/1230 that will replace Machinery Directive in January 2027 allows to provide instructions in digital format (L_2023165EN.01000101.xml (europa.eu)<https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32023R1230&qid=1688119698228#d1e1695-1-1>, Article 10, Point 7). Kind regards, Bernd Von: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 19:14 An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Betreff: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR [EXTERNAL E-MAIL] This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender. No. I don't see so many EU documents as others here do, and it is very difficult, as you know, to find a document when you don't know a document title to look for. I am remembering information posted here quite a long time ago. On 2023-08-13 17:56, Amund Westin wrote: Yes, I was thinking that a short paper guide would help. URL link is important as you say, and QR are actually for advanced mobile users. Have you seen this issue been discussed in “Blue Guide” or other EU documents? Fra: John Woodgate Sendt: 13. august 2023 18:43 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Emne: Re: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR I believe that in Europe, it is not allowed. Current practice seems to be to include with the product a short 'User Guide' or similar, which includes the safety information required by the relevant safety standard, and the DOC(s), together with a text link of the URL of the full User Manual. You could include a QR code in addition, but not instead of the text link, because about 15 % of people don't have a smart phone or don't know much about using it for anything but call
Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?
Doug In the past I’ve worked on control cabinets used in Semi-Conductor plant equipment and this is an extract from an earlier version of SEMI S2 I have: 13.5 Uninterruptable Power Supplies (UPSs) — This section applies to UPSs with outputs greater than: 30 volts rms, 42.4 volts peak; 60 volts DC; or 240 volt-amps. 13.5.1 Whenever a UPS is provided with the equipment, its location and wiring should be clearly described within the installation and maintenance manual. 13.5.2 Power from the UPS should be interrupted when any of the following events occur: the emergency off actuator (button) is pushed; or the main equipment disconnect is opened; or the main circuit breaker is opened. EXCEPTION: Upon EMO activation, the UPS may supply power to the EMO circuit, safety related devices, and data/alarm logging computer systems as described in the exception clauses of § 12.2. 13.5.3 The UPS may be physically located within the footprint of the equipment provided that the UPS is within its own enclosure and is clearly identified. 13.5.4 The UPS should be certified by an accredited testing laboratory and be suitable for its intended environment (e.g., damp location, exposure to corrosives). 13.5.5 The UPS wiring should be identified as ‘UPS Supply Output’ or equivalent at each termination point where the UPS wiring can be disconnected. We never put warning signs for UPS on the outside of the cabinet, but there were high voltage warning signs and detailed explanation within the manual. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Doug Nix Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2023 10:24 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed? Colleagues, I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel. The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if the disconnecting device is switched off. I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that requires a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is a UPS inside. EN 60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of EN IEC 62040-1, and it does not require a hazard warning label anywhere. Any guidance you might offer is appreciated. Doug Nix d...@ieee.org<mailto:d...@ieee.org> +1 (519) 729-5704 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries...
Matthew I think the issue is, again, one of enforcement – the UK General Product Safety Regulations impose requirements on both manufacturers and importers, so there is existing legislation that could be used. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Matthew Wilson | GBE Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 10:11 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] BBC news article re Li-ion batteries... I thought this news article that was on the BBC TV broadcast bulletins 27th July might be of interest. “Batteries for e-bikes should be regulated in the same way as fireworks, heavy machinery or medical devices because of the fire risk they pose, a charity [UK based Electrical Safety First] has said” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66304564 [cid:image001.png@01D9C13D.7DA6A7A0][cid:image002.png@01D9C13C.B137C140] Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the company, unless specifically stated. GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under number 06210991. Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength
The residential level of 3m V/m was in IEC 1000-4-3 predates portable phones, WiFi, Bluetooth and all the other mobile and portable transmitters widely in use today. The 20+ V/m field strengths in these standards are what is obtained from a cellular phone at maximum power, or WiFi device, at approximately 0.3 m / 1 ft. Now, on live networks the 99% percentile transmit power of a cell phone is around 1% of maximum power, but that's not considered in safety standards such as SAR testing Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Brian Gregory Sent: Monday, July 24, 2023 10:49 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Woodgate's reply on residential Immunity field strength The reference for 20 V/m to EV chargers comes from UL 2231-2. This is not a medical standard, but Annex A does call out the medical standard 60601-1-2 as a reference, as well as CENELEC 50204. We can't figure out why; cell phones produce less than half that, and our WiFi transmitter is probably representative, and is rated well under 1 W. I could see a higher immunity standard as needed for commercial environments, say in a bank of 4-5 chargers. Following along in 61000-4-3, we agree with John that residential applications are clearly best matched to the definition for Class 2 environment, and the table in Clause 5 says the limits for Class 2 equipment is 3 V/m. 20 V/m does not show up in Clause 5 of 61000-4-3 for any class. So, I've should to reach out to a UL standards group and find out if this is really necessary for residential applications. Our local lab can't do more than 10, and an overseas affiliated lab is similarly limited. I'd like to know were this requirement comes from. This is more a question for EV Charging safety than a mainstream EMC question. As a backup, I could request a comment to Ken's point is if they define the peak of the modulation as 20 V/m. I don't know where these are defined. Thanks for all the detailed replies! Colorado Brian 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk>> To: Brian Gregory mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Immunity test field strength, residential setting Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 18:05:59 +0100 61000-4-3 is a Basic Standard. It does not specify test levels but indicates possible test levels. You need to look in detail at Clause 5, but look at these words: Product committees shall select the appropriate test level for each frequency range needing to be tested as well as the frequency ranges. The residential environment is usually designated Class 2 (see Annex E of the standard), which calls for 3 V/m. == Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk<http://www.woodjohn.uk> Rayleigh, Essex UK I hear, and I forget. I see, and I remember. I do, and I understand. Xunzi (340 - 245 BC) On 2023-07-21 17:44, Brian Gregory wrote: Hello colleagues, We are building EV Chargers for residential markets (not just US) and one of the safety applicable standards is UL 2231-2. It calls out IEC 61000-4-3 for immunity testing parameters, which states a requirement for a field strength of 20V/m. Our EMC expert says typically testing is "done at 3 Vrms, which is standard for most products in residential environments." He can only test up to 10V, and we're hearing the same from an overseas lab to whom our manufacturer refers. Does FCC Part B have guidelines for field strength we can cite? Can some offer this "DC guy" (aka, 60 Hz) a quick definition of what the 20V/m represents? I'm guessing 20 V/m is for higher density commercial applications, aka charging stations, so we probably need an exception for residential. Thank you! Colorado Brian 720-450-4933 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To u
Re: [PSES] Stability
Steve Have a look at EN 61010-1 covers laboratory equipment and includes stability requirements. EN 60204-1 only really covers electrical risks – so unless the equipment falls under the Machinery Directive, you should consider other standards to ensure requirements of LVD Annex I are met. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Steve Brody Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 8:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Stability A client has a product which is a mobile cart intended for a laboratory setting in which it can be moved to whatever lab station it is needed at. It is on casters and when wheeled to the working location, leveling feet which are located in the center of the castor mount, are lowered and locked into position to keep the cart from moving and to ensure it is level. The product will be evaluated to EN 60204-1, but there is no reference to stability in this standard. First question is should EN 61010-1, 7.4, be used to evaluate stability, and if not then what? Assuming yes, the first sentence of 7.4 says; 'Equipment and assemblies of equipment not secured to the building structure before operation should be physically stable.' Second question is does this section apply to the cart only when in position for use, or also when being moved from location to location? Because when in use the cart is supported by [properly rated] feet, then the tests for castors should no longer apply?. That is the third question. Your thoughts and comments are requested and appreciated, as always. Thanks, Steve Brody sgbr...@comcast.net<mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net> C - 603 617 9116 This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/<https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/%20> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net<mailto:msherma...@comcast.net> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org<mailto:linf...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher at: j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/ Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/ Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] EU Machinery Regulation official version
Brian If you’ve not come across it already, I recommend joining the LinkedIn group “Machinery Safety, Regulations and Standards for CE/UKCA” https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3995029/ Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Brian Kunde Sent: Friday, June 30, 2023 6:54 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Machinery Regulation official version Is there a good source of information on the application of this new directive? Are there any good articles or summaries comparing the new directive to the old? Are there implementation dates? Can we declare compliance to the new directive now, or are their other hurdles that need to be put into place? Is there a source for good comments and discussion on this? I have only just started to dig into it. Thanks to all. The Other Brian On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 2:12 PM Lauren Crane <1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> wrote: FYI – now published in the OJ -- https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32023R1230 Best Regards, -Lauren LAM RESEARCH CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, (collectively, "E-mail Transmission") may be subject to one or more of the following based on the associated sensitivity level: E-mail Transmission (i) contains confidential information, (ii) is prohibited from distribution outside of Lam, and/or (iii) is intended solely for and restricted to the specified recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk. Thank you. Confidential – Limited Access and Use - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Generic radio standard for aeronautical service
Amund Have a look at: ETSI EN 302 617 V2.3.1 ETSI EN 301 842-5 V2.1.1 ETSI EN 301 489-22 V2.1.1 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 -Original Message- From: Amund Westin Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:03 PM To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: SV: [PSES] Generic radio standard for aeronautical service Thanks Charlie It's an ILS system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system Currently, there are no existing ETSI/EN/IEC standards covering radio tests. Only these German standards are in place: https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunikation/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Technik/InverkehrbringenvonProdukten/Schnittstellenbeschreibungen/FlugfunkFL/RegTPSSBFL012Id1461pdf.pdf;jsessionid=63D4A874EE9637C9B4A25A6C70EB23FF?__blob=publicationFile&v=4 Seems to a Technical File / Notified Body case ... BR Amund -Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: Charlie Blackham Sendt: 13. juni 2023 21:24 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Emne: Re: [PSES] Generic radio standard for aeronautical service Amund The only "generic" radio standards are the ones for "short range devices", EN 300 330, EN 300 220 and EN 300 440 and newer versions of those standards under development A full list of all ETSI RED published and work-in-progress standards is available at https://portal.etsi.org/webapp/WorkProgram/WorkItemPlan.asp?titleType=all&qSORT=HIGHVERSION&qETSI_ALL=&SearchPage=TRUE&qDIRECTIVE=2014%2F53%2FEU&qINCLUDE_SUB_TB=True&qINCLUDE_MOVED_ON=&qSTOP_FLG=N&qKEYWORD_BOOLEAN=OR&qCLUSTER_BOOLEAN=OR&qFREQUENCIES_BOOLEAN=OR&qSTOPPING_OUTDATED=&butExpertSearch=Search&includeNonActiveTB=FALSE&includeSubProjectCode=FALSE&qREPORT_TYPE=RPLAN&optDisplay=ALL Note, this would only cover products using Civilian frequency bands. It would be a bit surprising if there wasn't a standards either published ,or at least under development, for radio technology deployed on any real scale. If there really isn't a Harmonised Standard available, you'll need to develop a compliance argument in a Technical File and use a Notified Body Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 -Original Message- From: Amund Westin Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 4:44 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Generic radio standard for aeronautical service After some searching, we see that there is a lack of radio standards that cover an important ground-based product / system within aeronautical services. How should we proceed with finding relevant test requirements? Are there any generic radio requirements that can be used as a basis? BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list
Re: [PSES] Generic radio standard for aeronautical service
Amund The only "generic" radio standards are the ones for "short range devices", EN 300 330, EN 300 220 and EN 300 440 and newer versions of those standards under development A full list of all ETSI RED published and work-in-progress standards is available at https://portal.etsi.org/webapp/WorkProgram/WorkItemPlan.asp?titleType=all&qSORT=HIGHVERSION&qETSI_ALL=&SearchPage=TRUE&qDIRECTIVE=2014%2F53%2FEU&qINCLUDE_SUB_TB=True&qINCLUDE_MOVED_ON=&qSTOP_FLG=N&qKEYWORD_BOOLEAN=OR&qCLUSTER_BOOLEAN=OR&qFREQUENCIES_BOOLEAN=OR&qSTOPPING_OUTDATED=&butExpertSearch=Search&includeNonActiveTB=FALSE&includeSubProjectCode=FALSE&qREPORT_TYPE=RPLAN&optDisplay=ALL Note, this would only cover products using Civilian frequency bands. It would be a bit surprising if there wasn't a standards either published ,or at least under development, for radio technology deployed on any real scale. If there really isn't a Harmonised Standard available, you'll need to develop a compliance argument in a Technical File and use a Notified Body Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 -Original Message- From: Amund Westin Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2023 4:44 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Generic radio standard for aeronautical service After some searching, we see that there is a lack of radio standards that cover an important ground-based product / system within aeronautical services. How should we proceed with finding relevant test requirements? Are there any generic radio requirements that can be used as a basis? BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] PLC password
Lauren The Right to Repair legislation only covers certain consumer products as per Annex II and doesn't cover machinery such as this. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Lauren Crane <1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: Friday, June 2, 2023 5:33 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] PLC password Hi Steve, My Friday 2c... There is a trend of "right to repair" legislation that might contraindicate that position to some extent. See e.g. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:52023PC0155 It seems odd that the approval of a product would depend on the whether the end user can modify the product or not. There isn't a certified item I have that I can't modify in some dangerous way. There is an important difference between de-certification of a product unit because it has been modified vs. de-certification of a product line because it can be modified. Best Regards, -Lauren From: sgbrody mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net>> Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 5:51 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] PLC password External Email: Do NOT reply, click on links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you believe this email may be unsafe, please click on the "Report Phishing" button on the top right of Outlook. I have been asked if there is a standard, or comments within s standard, that discusses giving a customer the password to allow them to reprogram the PLC when they remove a device and the light curtain that protected it. I believe, that other than it being a terrible idea, that it would probably invalidate any approvals the end product had. The customer is asking for a document that supports my opinion. I dud suggest that we send a service person to do the change, and not give up the pw. Thoughts? Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 LAM RESEARCH CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, (collectively, "E-mail Transmission") may be subject to one or more of the following based on the associated sensitivity level: E-mail Transmission (i) contains confidential information, (ii) is prohibited from distribution outside of Lam, and/or (iii) is intended solely for and restricted to the specified recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk. Thank you. Confidential - Limited Access and Use - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&a
Re: [PSES] EMC directive - does not apply ...
Amund My understanding is that "custom built evaluation kit" can be sold to an end customer - it doesn't sound like you are proposing this. Article 17 of the EMCD requires that CE marking is affixed before it is placed on the market. Article 2.3 of The Blue Guide covers your scenario which doesn't require CE marking: Placing on the market is considered not to take place where a product is: - transferred for testing or validating pre-production units considered still in the stage of manufacture; Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2023 7:10 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EMC directive - does not apply ... 2014/30EU, article 2, This Directive shall not apply to: (e) custom built evaluation kits destined for professionals to be used solely at research and development facilities for such purposes. Does the statement accept that a manufacturer ship the product ( a prototype) to a professional partner, who will test the product within its own premises? BR regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
[PSES] US requirements for Electric Vehicle Chargers
A client, who's an independent product design house, has been asked to assist a client to expand their product range into the US market and they are looking for "Insight into US technical/regulatory requirements around EV charging, smart consumer units/distribution boards, and other domestic electrical including regulations, certification processes, distribution channels for electrical equipment, install types and diversity in specific or across regions". Is anyone on the list able to assist, or recommend someone who can? Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] ESD standards for testing remotes
Charles Assuming it’s infrared only, EN 55035 would be a suitable product standard (Infrared remote controls are referenced as ancillary/support equipment for TVs in the informative Annex J) A wireless remote would additionally be tested to EN 301 489-x, but the test levels are the same Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Chas Grasso Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2023 11:24 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] ESD standards for testing remotes Hello gurus! Does anyone know of an official standard for ESD testing remotes used for TVs /STBs etc? Thanking you in advance!! -- Charles Grasso Dish Technologies (c) 303-204-2974 (w) 303-706-5467 (h) 303-317-5530 (e ) charles.gra...@dish.com<mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com> (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com<mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Safety shutters in BS 13A socket
I don’t have a copy of the standard, but I’m fairly sure this is all detailed in: BS 1363-2:2016+A1:2018 13 A plugs, socket-outlets, adaptors and connection units - Specification for 13 A switched and unswitched socket-outlets It’s a BSI standard, so it’s expensive ! Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe Sent: Friday, April 21, 2023 3:09 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Safety shutters in BS 13A socket BS 13A sockets are designed with a safety shutter to prevent accidental contact with live electrical contacts. According to the BS standard, the shutters for the live (L) and neutral (N) apertures must block securely. Is there any verification test available to ensure that the shutters for the L and N apertures meet this required safety standard? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC
Dan You might not have had it rejected, but there’s no way to be 100% sure that it has been, and always will be excepted – it could just be because no one has taken a detailed look. Some market enforcement agencies have rejected DoCs for, in their view, incorrect spaces – a specific example: EN 60335-1:2012+A11:2014+A13:2017+A1:2019+A2:2019+A14:2019 was accepted by a German Regulator. But EN 60335-1:2012 + A11:2014 + A13:2017 + A1:2019 + A2:2019 + A14:2019 was not. I would normally say “you couldn’t make this up” – you can’t – it’s true !! As others have noted, the declaration phrase on the CE and UKCA DoCs are different, so I would recommend against combining them as it gives a market regulator an angle to attack your DoC, and an “administrative non-compliance” opens you up to impounding and/or audit testing at your expense. I would suggest a better alternative would be to have one PDF document, that contained several pages, each one with a DoC for a separate jurisdiction, such as 3 pages for example, one each for EU, UK and Aus. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 01 March 2023 21:09 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC We’ve been combining both onto one document. It sometimes makes the document go to a second page because of the extra information. We include Australia and anywhere else that will take a DoC into one document as well. Haven’t had it rejected by anyone yet. Dan From: Andres Waszczenko [mailto:1fcfb5f9b1f4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 3:31 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC Hello Peter, I have been working with Mike and I too concur with his answer. The EU and the UKCA are not the same entities. At a minimum, two different addresses are needed to identify the authorize representatives, hence the cleanest approach is two different declarations of conformity (DoC). Just a thought. Also note due to the short timeline that was provided by the Brexit separation. The UKCA authorities chose to initially use the same set of harmonized standards that the EU is using but that is more that likely to change. Also, as Mike mentions, the terminology in the body of the DoCs does vary. The references used are different between the UKCA and the EU. Regards, Andres Andres Waszczenko Sr. Product Safety & Compliance Specialist Entrust Datacard 1187 Park Place Shakopee MN, 55379 952-933-0768 andres.waszcze...@entrust.com<mailto:andres.waszcze...@entrust.com> [cid:image001.png@01D94C8B.25868BC0] From: MIKE SHERMAN mailto:msherma...@comcast.net>> Sent: Wednesday, 1 March, 2023 2:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [PSES] EU and UK DoC WARNING: This email originated outside of Entrust. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe. Yes, that is what we concluded. In addition, there is some other terminology that differs between the two that your client might have to deal with. Mike Sherman PSC LLC On 03/01/2023 1:29 PM 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote: Hello Group, I have a client that wishes to use a single DoC for both EU (CE) and UK (UKCA). He has figured out everything except one area and that is the address/location for signature. Does he have to have two addresses shown on the DoC for signature? One in EU and one in UK? Thanks Peter - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i46rZRm7N$> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i4ylzHGkb$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/list.html__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!eSpyYoJSNLT2vdkeS4yj40AITSaEHsTeUFdKTlPuaOiLpYeJEBRHDnR4n0GuzxPv1962pV8qipWBMJgCOe6i49ElTJeW$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https:
Re: [PSES] Non-NRTL Field Inspection Service Provider in the Michigan / Midwest Region
Rich I’m looking at a similar project myself >The FEB must be acceptable to the AHJ in the region where the equipment is to >be installed. Are there published lists anywhere, or is it a case of asking the relevant AHJ? Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Richard Nute Sent: 22 February 2023 23:33 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Non-NRTL Field Inspection Service Provider in the Michigan / Midwest Region Hi Carl: I’m not able to identify candidate FEBs as you requested. Most NRTLs, small to large, also are FEBs. I only found one accredited FEB who wasn’t an NRTL, SGS in Switzerland (a very big company). Here is a good and complete (straight-forward) explanation of the field inspection service in the USA and Canada: https://metlabs.com/services/on-site-field-testing-and-evaluation/field-inspection-frequently-asked-questions/ Here is one of the field evaluation body, FEB, accreditation schemes: https://www.iasonline.org/services/field-evaluation-bodies/ The FEB must be acceptable to the AHJ in the region where the equipment is to be installed. Rich From: emcl...@gmail.com<mailto:emcl...@gmail.com> mailto:emcl...@gmail.com>> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2023 2:16 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Non-NRTL Field Inspection Service Provider in the Michigan / Midwest Region A friend asked me if I could refer him to a field inspection service provider for computer/ITE products intended for use within factory environments. I'm aware that the major NRTLs offer this service apart from their NRTL accreditation, so I'm asking for other referrals for smaller service providers. The scope is for USA and Canadian installations and this company would like that source to provide engineering review of the product in question in advance of the inspection, as well as the inspection itself and tag as needed. Thanks in advance, Carl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Adding more than one EUT
Derek The EMC Directive requires the manufacturer to perform an "an adequate analysis and assessment of the risk(s)." (Annex II, module A, para 3) That risk assessment has to consider foreseeable use. It's for the manufacturer to decide, but if I was advising them, then I would suggest that maybe testing 3 combinations would cover it: - minimum number of supported lights - maximum number - approx. 50% load So, in this example, 1, 8 and 4 or 5. Ultimately though, It's the manufacturer's responsibility to make the call. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 -Original Message- From: Lfresearch <00734758d943-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 17 February 2023 20:21 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Adding more than one EUT Hi folks, I’ve been asked to test a light fixture that has the ability to be daisy chained up to 8 units. When I run conducted emissions, I’m wondering if I need to insist on having 8 units plugged in at once i.e. fully populated, OR, can I just test one fixture at a time since that’s how the system is likely to be used also.. Is there a legal requirement or precedent on how this should be tested as I’m going round in circles arguing with myself here. Thanks, Derek. SSCLabs, Reno, NV. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Egypt Customs Requirements for Electronic Equipment
Brian The manufacturer can sign the DoC, but I think they are looking for the 2nd point in MD Annex II: The EC declaration of conformity must contain the following particulars: 1. business name and full address of the manufacturer and, where appropriate, his authorised representative; 2. name and address of the person authorised to compile the technical file, who must be established in the Community; Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Brian Kunde Sent: 14 February 2023 21:55 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Egypt Customs Requirements for Electronic Equipment I have a piece of Electronic Equipment (laboratory equipment declared under the Machinery Directive) being held up in Egypt Customs. They say they accept the CE marking and EU-DoC but the DoC has to be signed by some authority other than the Manufacturer. What does that mean? Does anyone know what I have to do? Thanks, The Other Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] USB Type C requirements for the EU
Cecil The Regulation contains a list of products within scope. The EU has moved away from publishing formal guidance on interpretation of Directives and Regulations, so it’s up to the manufacturer to determine whether or not a particular product is in or out of scope. My recommendation is to document that decision process so you can fall back on it if challenged and review it at a future date in case any new information comes to light Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: cgitt...@rochester.rr.com Sent: 14 February 2023 16:54 To: Charlie Blackham Cc: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: Re: [PSES] USB Type C requirements for the EU Hi Charlie, Does head worn display falls into the following categories or classes of radio equipment in the Directive (EU) 2022/2380? I appreciate any input. Best Regards Cecil ----- From: "Charlie Blackham" To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Cc: Sent: Monday February 13 2023 3:41:54AM Subject: Re: [PSES] USB Type C requirements for the EU Cecil Directive (EU) 2022/2380<https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2022/2380> amending the RED with the "common charger" published on 7th December 2022 Applies to all products in scope placed on the market after 28 December 2024 except for laptops, where the date is 28 April 2026 EU Directive and Regulations apply to each and every individual product, so there is no grandfathering for existing designs. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: cgitt...@rochester.rr.com<mailto:cgitt...@rochester.rr.com> mailto:cgitt...@rochester.rr.com>> Sent: 13 February 2023 01:13 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] USB Type C requirements for the EU What is the implementation date for USB Type C that products need to comply with the Directive? Is there any exemption or grandfathering for current products that are used already in the market? I appreciate any input. Thank you. Cecil Gittens - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] USB Type C requirements for the EU
Cecil Directive (EU) 2022/2380<https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2022/2380> amending the RED with the "common charger" published on 7th December 2022 Applies to all products in scope placed on the market after 28 December 2024 except for laptops, where the date is 28 April 2026 EU Directive and Regulations apply to each and every individual product, so there is no grandfathering for existing designs. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: cgitt...@rochester.rr.com Sent: 13 February 2023 01:13 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] USB Type C requirements for the EU What is the implementation date for USB Type C that products need to comply with the Directive? Is there any exemption or grandfathering for current products that are used already in the market? I appreciate any input. Thank you. Cecil Gittens - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Appropriate reference for EN standard within CB Report
Carl The OJ summary lists amendments separately, as published, it does not list “standard plus amendment(s)” as you typically write on a DoC The relevant legislation for this change EN 61010-1 is Commission Implementing Decision (EU) 2020/1779<https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%3AOJ.L_.2020.399.01.0006.01.ENG&toc=OJ%3AL%3A2020%3A399%3ATOC> of 27 November 2020 EN 61010-1:2010 ceased to provide a presumption of conformity on 30th May 2022 In order to maintain presumption of conformity, A1:2019 must also be applied (along with AC:2019, but that doesn’t need to be listed on the DoC) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: emcl...@gmail.com Sent: 06 February 2023 14:18 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Appropriate reference for EN standard within CB Report Hello All, I've included a snip here and I don't recall whether the list server will allow that so I'll also include the text. I checked on the revision status of EN 61010-1 within the OJ and I'm confused because the current reference includes the withdrawn revision. EN 61010-1:2010 was withdrawn as of 30/11/2020 but it's also included within the current reference as follows: EN 61010-1:2010, EN 61010- 1:2010/A1:2019/AC:2019-04, EN 61010-1:2010/A1:2019 [cid:image001.png@01D93A58.94420CF0] Is this due to the long-standing CENELEC confusion? Does this mean that all of these references belong on a manufacturers DoC? Or any one of them? (e.g. EN 61010-1:2010/A1:2019/AC:2019-04) Does this mean that the original EN 61010-1:2010 is still allowed without the addition of A1:2019? I'm reviewing a draft CB report and I want to get the "EN" reference within the report to line-up with this requirement if possible. Thanks, Carl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2014
Scott My understanding is that the extension is purely so that there is not an expired standard listed in the OJ for the LVD – that’s all There is no legal link between the dates in a standard and compliance with a Directive A manufacturer is free to use whatever standards they wish for compliance with LVD and article 3.1(a) of the RED, but only Harmonised Standards currently listed in the OJ provide a Presumption of Conformity Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe Sent: 07 December 2022 16:43 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2014 CENELEC recently extended DoW for 18 months from 06/01/2023 to 06/07/2024. What are the impacts on importers/manufacturers, test houses and market surveillances? EN 62368-1 : 2014 is still valid for LVD/RED in EUOJ. All the relevant products should follow this version for EU markets. What is the point of this change to them? In general the test houses give unclear interpretations to their clients in this aspect. Sometimes, they follow EUOJ requirements but sometimes CENELEC. Some importers/manufacturers also confuse which requirements to follow. Some countries also may not adopt the latest IEC/EN standard as their national standards. Can't withdrawn standards be used? Thanks and best regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] Regulation vs Directive
Scott A Directive has to be transposed into the law of each member state A Regulation applies without the need to do this Types of legislation (europa.eu)<https://european-union.europa.eu/institutions-law-budget/law/types-legislation_en> The EU is moving towards Regulations as they are binding without member states needing to implement national law Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe Sent: 06 December 2022 15:51 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Regulation vs Directive Dear All, Some of the new proposals of Directive change the Directive to Regulation such as General Product Safety Regulation, Packaging and Packaging Waste Regulation, Portable battery regulation, etc, . What are the key differences between Regulation and Directive? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Link to secondary legislation draft RE: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension.
Amund At the bottom of this page https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: 25 November 2022 08:02 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Link to secondary legislation draft RE: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension. Sorry if I have missed that information, but where can I find requirements for the UKCA logo which shall be affixed to the product. Need the check out the shape, minimum size, etc. Just like the CE logo has requirements. Thanks! BR Amund Fra: Lauren Crane Sendt: 16. november 2022 16:41 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Emne: [PSES] Link to secondary legislation draft RE: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension. Hello All, In case you are interested in seeing it is more concretely true, here is a link to the secondary legislation laid before parliament that is a proposal to modify many (most/all) of the UKCA SI's with the extended date. Click on "full wording" top left, to see the draft. https://statutoryinstruments.parliament.uk/instrument/Iej3CpFt/ Best Regards, -Lauren LAM RESEARCH CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, (collectively, "E-mail Transmission") may be subject to one or more of the following based on the associated sensitivity level: E-mail Transmission (i) contains confidential information, (ii) is prohibited from distribution outside of Lam, and/or (iii) is intended solely for and restricted to the specified recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk. Thank you. Confidential - Limited Access and Use - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD
Richard My understanding is that CENELEC have just voted and decided to extend the DOW of EN 62368-1:2020 to 2024-07-06 As an aside, when selecting standards for CE/UKCA marking (as opposed to IEC CB scheme or similar), it is the manufacturer's responsibility to decide what version of the standard to test and not the labs - the lab may of course advise, but it remains the manufacturer's responsibility and the rationale should be documented in their risk assessment Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Richard Georgerian Sent: 21 November 2022 18:01 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD Greeting everyone, To continue this thread - At the CENELEC website: https://standards.cencenelec.eu/dyn/www/f?p=CENELEC:110:FSP_PROJECT,FSP_ORG_ID:66779,1257189&cs=11C3AC4F515A1C6989CA85C0ED445BC0B, it has the schedule for the adoption of EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020 3rd Edition. However, it is not in the latest OJ, only EN 62368-1:2014. My estimation, is that test labs will use EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020 after January 6, 2023 in their test reports. And EN 62368-1:2014 remains valid until the product changes such that the safety report is to be updated with an alternate construction. Not sure how this will affect current products using EN 62368-1:2014 2nd Edition after January 6, 2023. There is still indications that the 3rd Edition will not be adopted and Europe will go straight to the 4th Edition. My presumption is that when the EN 62368-1:2014 is superseded by EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020, but the OJ has not been updated, there is going to be a some confusion. In short, if test labs are going to test to EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020 3rd Edition and EN 62368-1:2014 2nd Edition is still the listed in the OJ and EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020 3rd Edition is not listed in the OJ, do we need to write a risk assessment? The EU DoC would still use EN 62368-1:2014 2nd Edition and also have EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020 3rd Edition. Can the safety report also state in addition to meeting EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020 3rd Edition, the product still complies to EN 62368-1:2014 2nd Edition. Having both in the test report and certificate will be for those countries that have not yet adopted 3rd Edition and still want to see a valid report/certificate with EN 62368-1:2014 2nd Edition. Is there a URL to find the Implementing Decisions regarding EN 62368-1? As always, guidance and assistance is most appreciated. Thank-you, ...Richard Georgerian Compliance Engineer HID Global From: Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2022 3:26 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD Dan Just a reminder that the Summary Lists are not "formal listings" - there have been mistakes in some of them, so whilst they are useful, it is important to check the referenced Implementing Decisions Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> Sent: 01 September 2022 20:46 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD Hi Bostjan, That is the older one without the new standards added recently. But yes, I am looking for that but the up to date version! Dan From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2022 1:11 PM To: Dan Roman mailto:danp...@verizon.net>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD Hi Dan Are you looking for this? Best regards Bostjan SIQ Ljubljana https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/43968/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/native Dobite Outlook za Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2022 6:34:33 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. Anyone know if (and where) the consolidated GPSD list of harmonized standards is published? When I look all
Re: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension.
All This relaxation has been trailed / announced, but it is not law until the Statutory Instrument has been published on https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ (it’s not there at time of typing) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Tom Smith Sent: 14 November 2022 17:37 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension. An announcement was made this morning extending allowance for using the CE marking for an additional 2 years until Dec 31, 2024. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/businesses-to-be-given-uk-product-marking-flexibility Regards, Tom Smith, P.Eng Principal Engineer TJS Technical Services Inc. Tel: +1 403-612-6664 Email: tsm...@tjstechnical.com<mailto:tsm...@tjstechnical.com> http://tjstechnical.com<http://tjstechnical.com/> Follow us on Twitter: TJS_Technical From: Scott Xe mailto:scott...@gmail.com>> Sent: November 14, 2022 9:30 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] SI amendment providing UKCA label deadline extension. Dear Scott & Lauren, Today, I received the following info to supplement the above development. "Some news from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS):- HMG intends to introduce legislation to continue recognition of the CE marking and reversed epsilon marking until 31 December 2024 for most goods being placed on the market or put into service in Great Britain as part of new ministers’ commitment to reduce burdens for industry. This package of measures is intended to provide businesses with more flexibility and reduce burdens for businesses. We will use our regulatory autonomy to help businesses navigate the current global economic and supply chain challenges whilst prioritising growth. In parallel, we will also consider how we could reduce costs and burdens associated with the UK regulatory framework in the longer-term, including opportunities under the Product Safety Review. We also intend to introduce legislation to give effect to the measures previously announced in June 2022 with amended timescales, in line with the extension. These measures intend to: • Reduce labelling costs by continuing to allow businesses to affix the UKCA marking, and to include importer information for products from EEA countries (and in some cases, Switzerland) on an accompanying document or a label until 31 December 2027. • Reduce re-testing costs for UKCA certification by allowing conformity assessment activities for CE marking undertaken by 31 December 2024 to be used by manufacturers as the basis for UKCA marking, until the expiry of the certificate or until 31 December 2027, whichever is sooner." Cheers, Scott On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 at 05:55, Scott Aldous <0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> wrote: Hi Lauren, It's a good question. A draft amendment was published on 6 September to effect the extension, but the draft was withdrawn on 10 October, stating that "a new version will be published in due course". More information here<https://www.gov.uk/eu-withdrawal-act-2018-statutory-instruments/the-product-safety-and-metrology-amendment-regulations-2022>. ExVeritas published an article on this on 3 November (in the context of ATEX Directive but generally applicable). You can find that article here<https://www.exveritas.com/2022/11/03/proposed-ukca-ex-atex-legislation-changes-withdrawn/>. Unfortunately the article doesn't give much more information. On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 11:14 AM Lauren Crane <1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:1afd08519f18-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> wrote: Hello All, Among all the UKCA discussion I have not noticed information on whether the promised no-label extension to 2026, though promised on government websites, is actually in the works with hope of becoming law before Jan 1, 2023. Does anyone have information on this point? Best Regards, -Lauren LAM RESEARCH CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, or previous e-mail messages attached to it, (collectively, "E-mail Transmission") may be subject to one or more of the following based on the associated sensitivity level: E-mail Transmission (i) contains confidential information, (ii) is prohibited from distribution outside of Lam, and/or (iii) is intended solely for and restricted to the specified recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to th
Re: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive
Scott I’m fairly certain that EN 62368-1:2014 was never listed under the GPSD – only the LVD – 60065 and 60950 remained listed. The listing of the 2020 version of 62368-1 is accompanied by the following “whereas”: By letter M/452 of 28 September 2009, the Commission made a request to the European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization (‘Cenelec’) to draw up European standards for personal music players. On the basis of this request, Cenelec adopted standard EN IEC 62368-1:2020 on ‘Audio/video, information and communication technology equipment – Part 1: Safety requirements’ and, further to that, the amendment EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020. EN IEC 62368-1:2020 is proposed with its amendment A11:2020, which complies with the general safety requirement set out in Directive 2001/95/EC. Its reference should be published in the Official Journal of the European Union replacing the references EN 60065:2002 ‘Audio, video and similar electronic apparatus – Safety requirements’ and EN 60950-1:2006 ‘Information technology equipment – Safety -- Part 1: General requirements’. However, the publication of those references should be limited to the clauses 3.3.19 ‘Sound exposure’ and 10.6 ‘Safeguard against acoustic energy sources’, given that the purpose of Commission Decision 2009/490/EC is limited to ensuring that exposure to sound from personal music players does not pose a risk to hearing. And the listing states Notice: this publication concerns only clauses 3.3.19 “Sound exposure” and 10.6 “Safeguard against acoustic energy sources” of EN IEC 62368-1:2020/A11:2020. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe Sent: 01 November 2022 14:45 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EU harmonised standard of EN 62368-1 Ed3 : 2020 for General Product Safety Directive Dear All, On 16 Aug 2022, OJEU listed EN 62368-1 2020 without a deadline of an enforcement date. Normally it will have a transitional period of 18 or 24 months. Does it mean to take effect immediately without a transitional period from EN 62368-1 Ed2 : 2014 to EN 62368-1 Ed 3 : 2020? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] List of Common Misuses
I’m not a lawyer, or from the USA, but in Europe the term “misuse” has been discussed in various REDCA (Radio Equipment Directive Compliance Association) Meetings with Notified Bodies and The EU Commission, and their view is that there’s no such thing as “misuse”, it’s just “use”. Drawing up a list of possible “misuses” is ultimately futile, as where do you draw the line – user manuals instructions telling you not to use a telephone in the bath morph into statements telling you not to use a PBX in the bath. My suspicion as an Engineer, is that some companies want great long lists of “do not do X” in the manual as some form of defence against mitigation by Darwin Awards nominees – but then you finish up with a manual so big that no one reads it anyway Just my 2p / 2c Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: MIKE SHERMAN Sent: 05 October 2022 19:09 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] List of Common Misuses Brian -- Good to hear from you! Re your question, it is not clear who the "they" is who is requesting a list of misuses. From my working experience, we (on advice of Legal) usually did not try to compile a list of misuses in the operating manual, on the theory that if a creative user found another (dangerous) misuse that was not on our list, they might conclude that it must be safe because it wasn't on our misuse list. We emphasized how to use our equipment correctly, and what the scope of its applications were. However, we would clearly identify in some warnings what not to do where we perceived that to be a foreseeable misuse. Hope this helps! Mike Sherman Sherman PSC LLC On 10/05/2022 1:01 PM Brian Kunde mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com>> wrote: My company manufactures Laboratory Equipment such as analyzers and determinators. They are highly specialized equipment, yet have an infinite range of uses. Even though all known residual risks are documented in the Safety Warning section of the manual, they will commonly request a list of Misuses. There are no buttons, or settings that can be changed by the User that can cause a hazard. The operational environment is clearly defined. So in most all cases, I am not aware of any "Misuse" that can cause a hazard. For some reason, this answer is not acceptable. We are expected to come up with something. Is there a standard or common list of MisUses that seem to satisfy this requirement? How crazy are we to get with this?, e.g., don't use the 400lb analyzer while taking a bath? Don't use it to mow your lawn? Common I used to work for a computer company and I couldn't believe the stupid warnings we had to put in the manual. Thanks to all. The Other Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All e
Re: [PSES] Wearables and UL 62368 vs UL 964 Electrically Heated Bedding
John The device might use a battery, but I would have thought that IEC 60335-1 and IEC 60335-2-17 would be better standards to apply considering their scope: IEC 60335-2-17:2012+A1:2015+A2:2019 deals with the safety of electric blankets, pads, clothing and other flexible appliances that heat the bed or human body, for household and similar purposes, their rated voltage being not more than 250 V. This standard also applies to control units supplied with the appliance. Appliances not intended for normal household use but which nevertheless may be a source of danger to the public, such as appliances intended to be used in beauty parlours or by persons in cold ambient temperatures, are within the scope of this standard… Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: John Allen Sent: 05 October 2022 16:18 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Wearables and UL 62368 vs UL 964 Electrically Heated Bedding Hi, I hope everyone is well and happy 😊. I’m hoping I can get some input on my thinking for a heated garment powered by a battery pack. 1. The heater is insulated. 2. The fabric it is in contact with is combustible. 3. The circuit is PS2 – 16W 4. I read UL 62368 Clause 6.4.5.2 as the fabric must not ignite under a single fault and it must be UL 94VTM. Am I correct? Also, in researching other “fabric” products, I found UL 964 Electrically Heated Bedding. Following is a summary of how they manage fabric and heating elements – 1. Sec. 6 Covering of Electrical Parts – All electrical parts shall be covered (except the connector attached to the bedding) with a “shell” or other fabric with no openings. 2. The heating element shall not be in direct contact with the shell. It shall be insulated with UL AWM. 3. There shall not be any sharp edges in contact with the shell. 4. There is a very elaborate flammability test on the shell. Wash it in special soap, let it dry then flame test it. It does not seem equivalent to UL 94 testing. 5. There’s also an “Ease of Ignition” test with a hot plate. Is UL 62368 missing some requirements in regard to Wearables that are made of fabric?? Wearable Technology Standards: * Wellness or Non-Medical Wearable: IEC/UL 62368-1 https://www.ul.com/services/wearable-technology-testing-and-certification I would appreciate any input you can provide. Best Regards and Be Safe, John John Allen | President & CEO | Product Safety Consulting, Inc. Your Outsourced Compliance Department® 630-238-0188, Cell: 630-330-3145 [1496245974387_PSC] www.productsafetyinc.com<http://www.productsafetyinc.com/> John Allen | IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society President 2016-2019, Past President 2020-2021, BoG Director at Large 2020-2023 Chairman – Compliance 101 Technical Committee IEEE Senior Member Keeping our members informed and educated on Product Safety and Certifications [cid:image002.png@01D8D8E0.69CBAFA0] https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/index.html Although PSC maintains the highest level of virus protection, this e-mail and any attachments should be scanned by your virus protection software. It is the responsibility of the recipient to check that it is virus free. PSC does not accept any responsibility for data loss or systems damage arising in any way from its use. This message is confidential and intended only for the individual to whom or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or addressee, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the addressee, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying, in whole or part, of this message is strictly prohibited. If you believe that you have been sent this message in error, please do not read it. Please immediately reply to sender that you have received this message in error. Then permanently delete all copies of the message. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv
Re: [PSES] Cybersecurity?
Some more information on Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2022/30,<https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%3AOJ.L_.2022.007.01.0006.01.ENG&toc=OJ%3AL%3A2022%3A007%3ATOC>: European Standards Organisations (ESOs) are proposing to create 3 harmonised standards to meet the new EU RE-Direct Cybersecurity requirements under Art 3.3 d), e) f): · Common security requirements for internet connected radio equipment · Common security requirements for equipment processing data (internet connected radio equipment, childcare radio equipment, toys radio equipment and wearable radio equipment) · Common security requirements for internet connected radio equipment processing virtual money/monetary value These new standards will be based on the applicable parts of the following existing standards: * EN 303 645 (consumer) * IEC 62443-4-2 (industrial) These new requirements will become mandatory from 1st August 2024 The timescales are such that these is insufficient time for standards to be written and published in the EU OJ, so a Notified Body will be mandatory for any radio equipment within scope. There are a number of sources of additional information, but there is more information in this article Delegated Regulation Cybersecurity RED Article 3.3 | Element<https://www.element.com/nucleus/2022/cybersecurity-and-the-red>, and in a webinar recording that can be watched after free registration https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/2306105117227103244 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: MIKE SHERMAN Sent: 03 October 2022 21:28 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Cybersecurity? Oh, I just learned something about that: Requirements coming in under Article 3.3 (d) (e) and (f) of RED (Radio Equipment Directive), and effective August 1, 2024. See EU Delegated Regulation 2022/30. Mike Sherman Sherman PSC LLC On 10/03/2022 3:24 PM Chris Brown <1ca53b7356f5-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:1ca53b7356f5-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> wrote: Doug, Yes, the EU has a new cybersecurity requirement for IoT devices (WiFi, Bluetooth, etc.) – basically anything wireless. This is probably why you are being peppered with emails. I would expect to see a lot more about this topic as implementation dates get closer. Chris Chris Brown Team Lead Compliance t 800-265-1844 - Ext 1380 t 519-455-9675 - Ext 1380 [http://sgcdn.startech.com/005329/esignatures/StarTechLogo.png]<https://www.startech.com/> [Mobile Workforce solutions]<http://www.startech.com/mobile-workforce-solutions> [Facebook]<https://www.facebook.com/Startechdotcom> [Linkedin] <http://www.linkedin.com/company/startech-com> [Twitter] <https://twitter.com/STARTECHdotCOM> [Contact us] <https://www.startech.com/ContactUs> This email from StarTech.com, including any attachments, may contain confidential and/or privileged information for the intended recipient(s) only and the sender does not waive any related legal rights or privilege. Any use or disclosure of the information by an unintended recipient is unauthorized and prohibited. If you have received an email message in error, please delete the entire message, including attachments if any, and inform us by return email. From: Douglas E Powell mailto:doug...@gmail.com>> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2022 4:10 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Cybersecurity? All, In the last few months, I've received a number of inquiries from recruiters thinking I have an interest in Cybersecurity. Many of these come to me via LinkedIn and I realize the word "compliance" shows up in many disciplines such as legal, financial, medical, etc. But now it seems all the recent hype into Cybersecurity and I.T. Compliance has created a fair bit of "noise"; and in my case as it is never related to EMC or Product Safety. Although I suppose Regulatory Compliance could be construed... I am curious to know if others on this forum are seeing a similar increase in inquiries, or is it just me? Thanks, Doug Douglas E Powell Laporte, Colorado USA doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com> LinkedIn<https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fcoloradocomplianceguy%2F&data=05%7C01%7CChris.Brown%40startech.com%7Cf07d4ff668b746a743d108daa57b51ab%7C0bf3d7afc3864a2b87b016e76addfb23%7C0%7C0%7C638004246350695221%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ccRg86UxBR57bOgDpVBe8e5aXovN5YZ8EUOAyx%2B7oGs%3D&reserved=0> (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (
Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD
Dan Just a reminder that the Summary Lists are not "formal listings" - there have been mistakes in some of them, so whilst they are useful, it is important to check the referenced Implementing Decisions Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 01 September 2022 20:46 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD Hi Bostjan, That is the older one without the new standards added recently. But yes, I am looking for that but the up to date version! Dan From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2022 1:11 PM To: Dan Roman mailto:danp...@verizon.net>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD Hi Dan Are you looking for this? Best regards Bostjan SIQ Ljubljana https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/43968/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/native Dobite Outlook za Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2022 6:34:33 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. Anyone know if (and where) the consolidated GPSD list of harmonized standards is published? When I look all I see is an amendment listing the changes and not an updated downloadable PDF with all current standards listed. Dan From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 9:28 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 Ed 3 2020 + A11 : 2020 for GPSD Hi Gert, Unlike LVD & RED, there is no transitional date in GPSD HS table. If there is no transitional period, how can the manufacturers handle the goods in the warehouse of the market and manufacturing plants to upgrade to new standards? Besides, what are the arrangements of goods in the water and recent imported goods at customs and market surveillance with old standard compliance? Regards, Scott On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 at 01:03, Gert Gremmen mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl>> wrote: Hi Scott The OJ itself lists the required dates in he table of publication. Gert Gremmen On 30-8-2022 15:41, Scott Xe wrote: On 16 Aug, the captioned HS was listed in OJ. Does it replace the previous version immediately or is there a transitional period? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 -- Independent Expert on CE marking EMC Consultant Electrical Safety Consultant - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv
Re: [PSES] Country Requirements -EMC Safety
Ryan / all Just to add to Brian's comments > One would think if manufacturers are required to meet country requirements it > would be public knowledge. In many cases it is - but information may be contained across more than one website and only in the language of the country. There are a number of companies, either independent Global Market Access consultancies or teams within international test labs who "do this for a living" and keep up to date. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Brian Ceresney Sent: 19 August 2022 00:22 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Country Requirements -EMC Safety Hi Ryan, All. After years in this predicament, I've defaulted to using the agencies to research the requirements for me. I also list the countries needed and submit for a quote to an agency with an international GMAP group. For a reasonable fee, they will research and provide the information. This may take months to complete, however because it's not easy. In addition, the agencies often send out emails touting their appointment as the agency favoured to perform specific country approvals. I've found often that the agency personnel are not aware of how to perform this approval, and sometimes no one in the agency knows either - even in-country staff! Another good one I've found is that some of the requests from customers contain tiny jurisdictions where almost no one lives. Good times! Best Of Luck. Best Regards, Brian C. [https://connect.delta-q.com/hubfs/Logos%20(Delta-Q)/25-06-2012_Delta_Q_Corporate_Grey_Mango_Vertical.png] Brian Ceresney Regulatory Lead Delta-Q Technologies Corp. A Zapi Group Company 1-604-566-8827 bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com> delta-q.com<https://delta-q.com/> [https://connect.delta-q.com/hubfs/Email%20Signature%20Icons/3.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/delta-q-technologies> [https://connect.delta-q.com/hubfs/Email%20Signature%20Icons/1.png]<https://twitter.com/deltaqtech> [https://connect.delta-q.com/hubfs/Email%20Signature%20Icons/4.png]<https://www.instagram.com/deltaqtech/> [https://connect.delta-q.com/hubfs/Email%20Signature%20Icons/2.png]<https://www.youtube.com/c/Deltaqtechnologies> Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: Ryan Jazz mailto:rjayasin...@yamahaguitargroup.com>> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2022 12:08 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Country Requirements -EMC Safety CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Dear Members, I am trying to create a list of country requirement as it relates to EMC and Safety requirements. However I have not been successful-These requirements appear to be a mystery. One would think if manufacturers are required to meet country requirements it would be public knowledge. I have checked trade.gov and other searches with no luck. If anyone can please share this secret it would be much appreciated. Perhaps you can share how you go about finding these requirements. If one has to use a subscription service to get the answers I would like to hear any recommendations. Sincerely, Ryan Jazz Ryan Jayasinghe Regulatory Compliance Engineer rjayasin...@line6.com<mailto:rjayasin...@line6.com> "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley LINE6 26580 Agoura Road Calabasas CA 91302 818.575.3711 line6.com ampeg.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> _
Re: [PSES] RF exposure minimum exclusion distance
Daniel AS a manufacturer, you are bound by the Radio Equipment Directive (and UK Radio Equipment Regulations) These require you to conduct an EMF assessment. Your risk assessment confirms that an EMF calculation would be appropriate and that SAR test/evaluation is not required, but an EMF calculation is needed. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Rodriguez, Daniel (ESP) <123de38bd494-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 12 July 2022 06:50 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] RF exposure minimum exclusion distance Good morning, all We have a router that is installed in industrial environment in a production line where normally there are not workers close only for maintenance According to EU EMF exposure for workers, is there any distance limit that we don't need to do an assessment like EN 62311? I mean, if we can assess in our Risk Assessment that because in normal conditions a operator is not close to the unit (approx. 3 meters) we don't need to assess for EN 62311? Thank you very much for your always great answers Kind Regards / Saludos cordiales / Mit freundlichen Grüßen Daniel Rodríguez CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain proprietary and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] UKCA
Amund There's not really been any change in what a UKCA Conformity Assessment Body (CAB) must do and what a EU Notified Body must do Furthermore, the technical requirements of the UK regulations have not changed since Brexit, so are same as EMCD, LVD, RED The product might be unchanged in 10 years, but "state of the art" the EMC has changed, so depending on the product, and the EMC environment it is used in, some updated assessment may be required. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: 28 June 2022 07:11 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] UKCA What is your experience: * Will a UKCA Notified Body normally approve the use of old test results (approx. 10 years old EMC report) under a conformity assessment today? We are preparing for some EMC testing, but wanted to re-use some results, to keep down the scope as much as possible. The product is unmodified since last test, even some uncritical components (passive) have been changed during the years. I realize that re-use of 10 years old test results sounds on the edge of what is reasonable, but I'm mostly interested in the UKCA procedure regarding use of past results, no matter how old they are. Thanks! BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link: https://listserv.ieee.org/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=EMC-PSTC&A=1
Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] EN Standard amendments
Scott The A11 amendments to EN 55032 and 55035 do not make any technical changes to the standard, so a test report without them can be used to support a DoC that lists them – you should just add a covering comment in your Technical File As to your point about which version a lab tests against – they should test against the version that you ask them to – it’s your responsibility as the manufacturer which standard you apply, not the test labs – their responsibility is to perform the required tests correctly Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Scott Xe Sent: 13 April 2022 16:16 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] EN Standard amendments Hi Bernd, Many thanks for your comments. Can we consider IEC amendment as non-EN amendment and it should be applied by non-EU countries. I have a recent case on a conformity test report that adopts A1 amendment only. However in OJEU it states A11. There is a risk for the market surveillance to challenge the missing A11 amendment. I am unsure if both A1 and A11 refer to the same topic or different one. In the similar case, the public test house will do the conformity test using the latest version of standard. If OJEU does not or has not adopted the latest version of a standard as harmonised standard, it may bring us unnecessary frustration about invalid standard applied when we deal with market surveillance. Of course, we can adopt whatever standards apart from harmonised standards but need to convene the market surveillance in agreement. Best regards, Scott On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 at 19:17, Dürrer Bernd mailto:bernd.duer...@wilo.com>> wrote: Hi Scott, all amendments published by CENELEC are applicable. You may check on published amendments using the standards search provided by CENELEC (for EN 55032 https://standards.cencenelec.eu/dyn/www/f?p=205:105:0:). Typically, an amendment A11 is published by CENELEC to establish the correspondence between the standard and the essential requirements of the applicable EU directive. This may also include modifications to the standard (for example in EN 55032/A11: “With respect to Clause 11 (Measurement uncertainty), the following shall not be applied, if Clause 5 (Requirements) is applied for the purposes of the presumption of conformity: 'Refer to CISPR TR 16-4-3 for guidance on the applicability of the limits to a series production MME'.”). Such an amendment A11 is now a legal prerequisite of having the standard listed in the Official Journal of the EU. The OJEU may not list all amendments (for EN 55032, the amendment A1 is not listed, cf. https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/45365). Nevertheless, you are free to reference standards in your Declaration of Conformity that are not listed in the OJEU (even non-EN standards), and if your DoC resp. your test report is based on an unlisted standard or amendment (e.g. EN 55032/A1), I recommend to reference it in the DoC. Kind regards, Bernd Von: Scott Xe mailto:scott...@gmail.com>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. April 2022 12:53 An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Betreff: [PSES] EN Standard amendments EN standards have two types of amendment: A1 - A9 and/or A11 - A19. As far as I know, A1 - A9 come from IEC/CISPR standard whereas A11 - A19 from CENELEC EN standard. For products to EU markets, does the product comply with A11 - A19 only? For example, EN 55032 : 2015 has both A1 : 2020 and + A11 : 2020. Is A1 : 2020 only applied for markets outside the EU? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C624ea41f1afc4c402cdc08da1d3bc311%7C39288a38ff19432c80111cd9d0dff445%7C0%7C0%7C637854439761766405%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=nbMG%2B8gw5yuFwig3Rvw28hpT1Po5s%2BCCDdx7B710Rno%3D&reserved=0> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C624ea41f1afc4c402cdc08da1d3bc311%7C39288a38ff19432c80111cd9d0dff445%7C0%7C0%7C637854439761766405%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=0eFEdxHIH9%2BDN2co6RgOaAA3Ieou%2FWjiq%2BZ7toh7c8U%3D&reserv
Re: [PSES] RED DoC and ETSI EN 301 489-1
Gert Indeed, but it implies that for the RED another compliance route need to be choosen (see annexes to the RED) I’m not sure what you mean by this statement – the manufacturer can follow Annex II and self declare where HS have been applied for article 3.2 (and 3.3 if applicable) irrespective of whether HS have been applied for Article 3.1(a) and (b) – this is laid out in Article 17. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Gert Gremmen Sent: 26 March 2022 10:02 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RED DoC and ETSI EN 301 489-1 The trend is to not harmonise the -1 version of this (and other series) in the future, the -1 instead will be normatively referenced in any of the applied subparts, that WILL be harmonised (once approved). By normatively referencing, the referenced clauses from the -1 will be part of the "text with legal effect" in the subpart. This implies that you will need a third party to prove your compliance status i.e. a Notified Body for 2014/53/EU (art 3.2) Indeed, but it implies that for the RED another compliance route need to be choosen (see annexes to the RED) The many subparts of EN 301 489 are on their way to harmonisation. However the process of creating standards (= adapting to EU requirements) is slow, and many stakeholders are involved. Since to-be-listed standards need up to 4 HAS-assessments each followed by a round of modifications at ETSI, each taking 3-9 months, the delays can be huge. (HAS is the EU-process where candidate HS are being scrutinized for their suitability to be listed. To a great part this comes down on verifying if the presented requirements can stand up in a legal sense, are exhaustive and precise, contain no duplicates to EU legislation, and are to the state of the art. In some cases a normatively referenced standard can block harmonisation if the referenced standard has severe deficiencies.) Gert Gremmen On 26-3-2022 9:21, T.Sato wrote: Although non-harmonised standards will not give presumption of conformity, -- Independent Expert on CE marking EMC Consultant Electrical Safety Consultant - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] RED DoC and ETSI EN 301 489-1
Ryan EN 301 489-1 V1.9.2 is in the EMC OJ to be used alongside EN 301 489-34 for phone chargers. EN 301 489-1 V1.9.2 is quite old and I would argue does not represent "state of the art". EMC Directive Harmonised Standards (HS) are useful when considering EMC aspects of non-radio functions for radio equipment (for example EN 61326 series of standards for radio enabled measurement and laboratory equipment) EN 55037:2017 is only relevant under the RED to Broadcast Receivers (as per Annex ZZB), and should not be applied to other equipment out of scope. There is no requirement to use HS for EMC requirements under the RED (and it is impossible to do so, as non of the 301 489 series are yet listed) Manufacturers must document a Risk Assessment that details rationale for standards that have been applied to demonstrate compliance with all relevant articles and I recommend that this includes application of the latest versions of EN 301 489 standards as published by ETSI which is likely to require some additional testing Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Ryan Jazz Sent: 25 March 2022 21:29 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] RED DoC and ETSI EN 301 489-1 Dear members, We have a Short Range Device transmitter and corresponding receivers we install in various enclosures for which we have test reports from different US labs. Transmitter power is less than 10mW and uses the 2.4GHz band. The various reports issued show the ETSI EN 301 489-1 V1.9.2 as one of the standards to which they were tested. The other is EN 300 440 V2.1.1. * My question is how do we show this ETSI standard in the RED Declaration of Conformity when this standard is listed only in the OJEC under the EMC Directive? Many RED guidance articles mention the EMC Directive should not be identified in the RED DoC. Is it OK to list this ETSI standard under the RED Directive-I am afraid it would be misleading or raise a red flag. (pun unintended). Instead of this ETSI standard, should we list the EN 55035:2017 standard instead, which is published in the OJEC under the RED? I would appreciate your valuable advice. Sincerely Yours, Ryan Jazz Ryan Jayasinghe Regulatory Compliance Engineer rjayasin...@line6.com<mailto:rjayasin...@line6.com> "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley LINE6 26580 Agoura Road Calabasas CA 91302 818.575.3711 line6.com ampeg.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] RFID Reader Integration
Brian A radio transmitter that is certified for USA and Canada probably does not need any further certification (subject to Grant Notes and EMF) but does require testing - see FCC KDB 996369 https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=44637&switch=P For Europe, a full "assessment" against the Radio Equipment Directive is required, which will almost certainly include some testing - further guidance in http://redca.eu/Unrestricted%20Documents/TGN/REDCA%20TGN%2001%20RED%20Radio%20equipment%20modules%20V1.2a%20March%202020.pdf Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: David Shidlovsky Sent: 23 February 2022 05:39 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RFID Reader Integration Hi As someone who works in a test lab my recommendation is that if you are not manufacturing a radio device (designing and manufacturing the transmitter/receiver and the whole product), you should by a module that has both CE mark and FCC/ISED modular approval. If the module has FCC/ISED modular approval, as long as you maintain the grant conditions no further radio testing is required for FCC/ISED. When in doubt, contact a TCB. If you plan to sell your product in Europe, then if the module has CE, minimum testing should be performed on the whole device to make sure the electronics of your device do not affect the module. If all is ok, you can issue a DOC for Europe. Best Regards, David Shidlowsky Technical Reviewer [cid:image001.jpg@01D82949.F3D2A790] Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 6117, LOD7120101 Israel Tel: 972-8-9186100 Ext. 213 Direct: 972-8-9186113 Fax: 972-8-9153101 Mail: dav...@itlglobal.org<mailto:dav...@itlglobal.org> Web www.itlglobal.org<http://www.itlglobal.org/> [cid:image002.png@01D82949.F3D2A790]Waze ITL: https://waze.com/ul/hsv8vccn2j [cid:image003.jpg@01D82949.F3D2A790]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/itl-israel-testing-laboratories/> https://www.linkedin.com/company/itl-israel-testing-laboratories/ [cid:image004.jpg@01D82949.F3D2A790][cid:image005.jpg@01D82949.F3D2A790] [cid:image006.jpg@01D82949.F3D2A790] From: MIKE SHERMAN mailto:msherma...@comcast.net>> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 2:21 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] RFID Reader Integration Brian - Be careful! Although very low powered, regulators still want to regulate! We bought an RFID chip and created the antenna via a trace on the board. Guess what-that meant there was no modular approval=we got to do lots of testing! Next time we'll choose differently. Mike Sherman On 02/22/2022 11:36 AM Brian Kunde mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com>> wrote: I know nothing about the regulatory requirements of an RFID Reader but I assume it has a transceiver so it is considered an Intentional Radiator. If I buy a reader over-the-counter in one country, can I use it in another country? Or, like WiFi and Bluetooth, do I have to have a Reader that is Certified for every country/market? If I want to integrate an RFID reader into an electronic device or machine, can I buy pre-certified modules for a worldwide market? Or will I have to have the entire electronic device certified? What are my options? Any insight would be helpful and appreciated. Thanks, The Other Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7ecc68a1e0dc4bcd608208d9f6626b1e%7Ce1dec31250e34519b77e5d278b48db79%7C0%7C0%7C637811724852910851%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=TfqdJ5gJ%2Bv0Y2Y8HO2qrwIwNrIevVneuuOSAf4kl9RU%3D&reserved=0> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7ecc68a1e0dc4bcd608208d9f6626b1e%7Ce1dec31250e34519b77e5d278b48db79%7C0%7C0%7C637811724852910851%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=k4nlMWHOxze1tiWBUa430c91PS7M2WTVvqnb7%2BwwerU%3D&reserved=0> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e
Re: [PSES] IP Code Question
I generally see outdoor telecoms enclosures specified and tested to IP66 or IP67, or NEMA 4X, but EN 60950-22:2006 and EN 62368-1:2020 only required IP54 to provide PD2 environment. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Douglas Nix <0bb8ff993b10-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 14 February 2022 19:35 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] IP Code Question I agree wit Ted Eckert on this. Generally for outdoor use you’d need IP65 at least. Doug Nix "The most wasted of all days is one without laughter.” — e.e. cummings. On 14-Feb-22, at 09:23, Brian Kunde mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com>> wrote: An IP code of IPx2 implies the enclosure protects against the ingress of water drops at 15° tilt. Now, most PC enclosures protect the electronics from occasional exposure to water drops, but it is not designed to be exposed to water drops continuously. So can you rate an electronic device IP22, for instance, but not intend it to be used outside or in an environment where it is exposed to water on a regular basis? Thanks for your input. The Other Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Declarations of Conformity-Gap Analysis Reports-EMC
Ryan I don't wish to breach copyright by sharing the actual content as it's a large % of the actual document, but in both cases it basically says "this document supersedes EN 55 and EN55yyy and their later updates" It will cost you 5.74 Euros each for the definitive text, or you can "browse" them for 2 Euros each: https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-55032-2015-a11-2020 https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-55035-2017-a11-2020 There no change to any of the test methods or limits Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Ryan Jazz Sent: 11 February 2022 23:41 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Declarations of Conformity-Gap Analysis Reports-EMC Dear Group, I am afraid the answer to my question may rely on purchasing 'before and after' standards and sifting out the delta in order to prepare a Gap Report to a Declaration of Conformity. * If there is an alternate method please advise. A recommended service perhaps. Decoder Ring? At the moment I am stuck trying to come up with a source I can reference to explain the difference between EN 55035:2017, vs. EN 55035:2017/A11:2020, and EN 55032:2015, vs EN 55032:2015/A11:2020. This forum touched on it last October by sharing a document referring to the Frankfort Agreement (https://boss.cenelec.eu/media/4dij213u/en_iecreferencing.pdf) * Is there a similar explanation for the latest amendments to 55035, and can someone share a good source to find these difference. Not sure why these matters have to be so cryptic in this already mazy world of product compliance. I've been at this since 1999 and this is one area where I have not felt well-heeled. Your help and guidance is greatly appreciated. Ryan Jazz Ryan Jayasinghe Regulatory Compliance Engineer rjayasin...@line6.com<mailto:rjayasin...@line6.com> "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley LINE6 26580 Agoura Road Calabasas CA 91302 818.575.3711 line6.com ampeg.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2020 Ed 3
Scott There’s no better system on the way – we’re stuck with the current one! As always, Harmonised Standards provide a “presumption of conformity”, but manufacturers must also document a risk assessment and determine whether the applied standard covers all foreseeable risks, and if not, what other measures have been taken as per LVD Annex III Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: scott...@gmail.com Sent: 11 February 2022 01:34 To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2020 Ed 3 Hi Charlie, Did you mean the current system is no longer to work anymore or is any better system on the way? How do the market surveillances conduct their sampling checks on the market? Just discover 6 Jan 2023 of is the DOW of last version on the new standard. Is it the correct way to follow if Ed 3 will not be listed in OJ? Rgds, Scott From: Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>> Sent: Thursday, 10 February 2022 10:04 pm To: scott...@gmail.com<mailto:scott...@gmail.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2020 Ed 3 Scott It’s never going to be listed in the OJ The EU Commission have rejected for multiple clauses not giving legal presumption of conformity (As an aside, the current version would be rejected if reviewed against the current criteria as well) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: scott...@gmail.com<mailto:scott...@gmail.com> mailto:scott...@gmail.com>> Sent: 10 February 2022 13:13 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2020 Ed 3 I learned this standard will become in force on 6 Jan 2023. However I could not find it in OJ as a harmonised standard replacing the Ed 2. It is difficult in encouraging the suppliers to use this new standard without official confirmation. Is anyone aware of when it will be available in OJ? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2020 Ed 3
Scott It’s never going to be listed in the OJ The EU Commission have rejected for multiple clauses not giving legal presumption of conformity (As an aside, the current version would be rejected if reviewed against the current criteria as well) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: scott...@gmail.com Sent: 10 February 2022 13:13 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2020 Ed 3 I learned this standard will become in force on 6 Jan 2023. However I could not find it in OJ as a harmonised standard replacing the Ed 2. It is difficult in encouraging the suppliers to use this new standard without official confirmation. Is anyone aware of when it will be available in OJ? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Notice about LVD compliance in a DoC for machinery?
Oliver The issue is that the legal bit stating that only the MD applies and not the LVD is in the MD (below) and not included in the list of exemptions in Annex II of the LVD 1.5. RISKS DUE TO OTHER HAZARDS 1.5.1. Electricity supply Where machinery has an electricity supply, it must be designed, constructed and equipped in such a way that all hazards of an electrical nature are or can be prevented. The safety objectives set out in Directive 73/23/EEC shall apply to machinery. However, the obligations concerning conformity assessment and the placing on the market and/or putting into service of machinery with regard to electrical hazards are governed solely by this Directive. (noting that 73/23/EEC was the first iteration of the LVD) My view is that Turkish customs are incorrect, but there’s little point in trying to argue with them, so I would send them a DoC that they are happy with, listing the relevant standard(s) you have applied. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Charles Grasso Sent: 17 January 2022 16:55 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Notice about LVD compliance in a DoC for machinery? Other that the fact that the statement is "the manufacturer’s EC Declaration of conformity shall not refer to the LVD but to the MD".? My guess is that you could invalidate the DoC if you violate that requirement. Chas On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:41 AM Oliver Betz mailto:list...@gmx.net>> wrote: This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org> Hi all, the "Guide to application of the Machinery Directive 2006/42/EC", Edition 2.2: https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/38022 states: "...Thus, whilst machinery with an electrical supply, which is not in any of the categories listed in Article 1(2) (k) of MD, shall fulfil the safety objectives of the LVD, the manufacturer’s EC Declaration of conformity shall not refer to the LVD but to the MD". Yet, EN60204-1:2018 is listed in the LVD summary of harmonised standards. Would it harm to state also the LVD conformity in a DoC for machinery? The above mentioned guide writes that the DoC "shall *not* refer to the LVD but to the MD" but I'm not sure about the intention behind. And we have problems with Turkish customs insisting that the DoC shall list also LVD compliance. I wonder whether / how I can phrase an elegant note on the LVD compliance. Any ideas? Oliver - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> -- Charles Grasso Dish Technologies (c) 303-204-2974 (h) 303-317-5530 (e ) charles.gra...@dish.com<mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com> (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com<mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
[PSES] Very high temperature thermal fuse / snap switch
Client is looking for a thermal fuse or similar that would operate at around 800 C - does anyone know of such a component? Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] FCC Part 15 - Frequency range of radiated emissions
Paolo I would recommend FCC KDB 996369 D04 Module Integration Guide V02 https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/kdb/forms/FTSSearchResultPage.cfm?id=44637&switch=P § 15.33(a) gives you an upper frequency of 12.5 GHz for part 15B “emc” emissions § 15.33(b) gives you an upper frequency of 25 GHz for part 15C “radio spurious” emissions Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Paolo Roncone Sent: 21 December 2021 12:24 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC Part 15 - Frequency range of radiated emissions Hi David Thanks for the reply You mean both EMI and Radio must cover up to 10× BT module frequency? Thanks again Paolo On Tue, Dec 21, 2021, 13:05 David Schaefer mailto:david.schae...@element.com>> wrote: Paolo, You are correct. Part 15.33 requires 10x the highest frequency, including the radio. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-15 § 15.33 Frequency range of radiated measurements. (a) For an intentional radiator, the spectrum shall be investigated from the lowest radio frequency signal generated in the device, without going below 9 kHz, up to at least the frequency shown in this paragraph: (1) If the intentional radiator operates below 10 GHz: to the tenth harmonic of the highest fundamental frequency or to 40 GHz, whichever is lower. Thanks, [cid:image485435.jpg@AB03C68D.3D324536] David Schaefer Technical Manager Element Materials Technology 9349 W Broadway Ave Brooklyn Park , MN 55445 , United States O +1 612 638 5136 ext. 10461 david.schae...@element.com<mailto:david.schae...@element.com> www.element.com<http://www.element.com> [cid:image500385.png@AF1E39A8.EDE4CEF2]<https://www.linkedin.com/organization-guest/company/element-materials-technology?challengeId=AQFf9AemZ4SobwAAAXOQwivOsnkHiTt2ByoCkOxVQjOGOjRlivicVgYlN1dz5QXjId9bpa0keWzfVxhl8KPj78uD6-S6nfqRsg&submissionId=e49e0dc0-96a3-2516-27fa-ee2e8c42b177> [cid:image854727.png@4FB8496E.8B7E390A]<https://twitter.com/ElementTesting/> [cid:image509551.jpg@3BA80E2B.D1E50632]<https://elementmaterials.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3xQqm84s6IydI5D> From: Paolo Roncone [mailto:paoloc...@gmail.com<mailto:paoloc...@gmail.com>] Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2021 5:32 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] FCC Part 15 - Frequency range of radiated emissions CAUTION:This email originated from outside of Element Materials Technology. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please contact IT Service Desk if you are in any doubt about this email. Hi all, an EUT with built-in Bluetooth 2.4 GHz module must be tested - as any electrical/electronic equipment sold in the USAm to FCC requirements for EMI. Questions: 1. What is the frequency range of EMI radiated emissions for the EUT in question? According to § 15.33 of Part 15: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-15#15.33 [image.png] My understanding is that the above mentioned EUT must be tested up to at least 10 x 2.4 GHz = 24 GHz for radiated emissions, with the limits specified in § 15.109 (Field strength in uVolts/m). 2. Does it make any difference wrt question 1 (EMI frequency range), if the 2.4G Bluetooth module is already covered by a Declaration of conformity or certified according to FCC 47 CFR Part 2 Subpart J (spurious emissions, or Radio tests) ? https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/part-2/subpart-J According to a colleague of mine, if the Bluetooth module is already Radio tested and/or certified, we may test the subject EUT as an "unintentional radiator" (Subpart B), excluding the 2.4 GHz and the 10x rule, but using the 5x highest frequency rule for unintentional radiators as the radiated EMI range. [image.png] I'm not at all convinced.. I hope someone in this forum can clarify this. Thanks a lot in advance and happy holidays! Paolo - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ie
Re: [PSES] RoHS III references on the DoC?
Doug It’s not required – the applicable Directive is still 2011/65/EU 2015/863 Directive amended it…….as did 60 or so Commission Delegated Directives Whether you like it or not, declaring compliance to RoHS means that you are declaring compliance with RoHS, as amended, with applicable permitted exemptions if permitted, at the time of signing. Lots of people like ask to see it on the DoC, so I agree that it won’t hurt, probably isn’t “wrong”, but also is not “required” You do not however declare compliance to RoHS III (it doesn’t exist) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: John Woodgate Sent: 16 December 2021 20:19 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS III references on the DoC? It can't hurt to cite it. There are cases where a citation is not allowed, but I don't think this is one of them. == Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk<http://www.woodjohn.uk> Rayleigh, Essex UK Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque On 2021-12-16 19:48, Douglas E Powell wrote: All, Given that Directive 2011/65/EU has been amended by Directive (EU) 2015/863, is it now necessary to reference the amendment on the Declaration of Conformity? This is an amendment to Annex II, and "RoHS III" appears terminology used by the unwashed masses. Thoughts? -Doug Douglas E Powell Laporte, Colorado USA doug...@gmail.com<mailto:doug...@gmail.com> LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/in/coloradocomplianceguy/> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png]<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free. www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ?
Doug I don't have the citation, but understand that there's a general rule that standards added to OJ listing provide (at least) an 18 month period before existing standard is superceded That said, there are a large number of reasons why the EU Commission have rejected 62368-1 3rd edition as a Harmonised Standard, so I'm not expecting it to be listed (EN 62368-1:2014 was listed under the previous acceptance criteria and published on the "C" list on Eur-Lex and my understanding is it wouldn't meet the more stringent requirement to provide legal conformity to be listed on the "L" list as is now required for all Harmonised Standards) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Kealey, Doug <1230523daaa3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 13 December 2021 14:29 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? Thank you Boštjan, Your response is very helpful. If EN 62368-1:2020+A11:2020 is listed in OJEU in December 2022, do you think they will delay the DoW date for EN 62368-1:2014 until 12 or 24 months after Jan 06 2023? Is there a rule or a precedent that the Commission will delay it? Best regards, Doug From: Boštjan Glavič mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si>> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2021 11:11 PM To: Kealey, Doug mailto:doug.kea...@garmin.com>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? CAUTION - EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe. Hi Doug, As there is no successor of EN 62368-1:2014 listed in OJEU, there is no DoW for this one. Date of Cessation in your standard is is for Cenelec (standardization) purpose only. So EN 62368-1:2014 will continue to be harmonized standard after Jan 06 2023. Best regards, Boštjan From: Kealey, Doug <1230523daaa3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:1230523daaa3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 5:42 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? Hi All, In my copy of EN IEC 62368-1:2020+A11:2020 (3rd edition), the dow date for the cessation of the 2nd edition shows as Jan. 6, 2023. If the OJ does not list the 3rd edition as a harmonised standard until after Jan. 6, 2023 (let's pretend the OJ harmonises the 3rd edition on May 1, 2023), will 2nd edition remain a harmonised standard until at least May 1, 2023? OR will there exist a situation for approx 4 months, during which there is no harmonised standard for this category of products? We have a plan that accounts for this scenario, but if I get pulled into a discussion about the way this technically unfolds, I want to be prepared to answer. Any precedents you can recall for safety standards? Perhaps a past situation where a new revision was late in being cited in the OJ as a harmonised standard, did the Commission push out the dow date several additional months past the date of being cited in the OJ, to give manufactures more time to complete their technical files and update their DoC's? Thanks so much, Doug Kealey CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be Garmin confidential and/or Garmin legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!FkjxwoFg4zMfnwGI_KT4gwimKB8269hg81zlZhSjBpgsWrmq2zrMYHlqLJDshh3SRw$> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!FkjxwoFg4zMfnwGI_KT4gwimKB8269hg81zlZhSjBpgsWrmq2zrMYHlqLJChr_63DA$> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!FkjxwoFg4zMfnwGI_KT4gwimKB8269hg81zlZhSjBpgsWrmq2zrMYHlqLJBOX7Llww$> Instructions: http://www.iee
Re: [PSES] RED standard for LoRa sensor end device
Amund From a standards perspective, Lora is “just” a digitally modulated radio protocol The appropriate standard* would be EN 300 220-2 V3.1.1, noting the permitted bands, powers and spectrum access requirements in Annexes B and C (* Assuming the radio is not been used for an alarm application under scope of EN 300 220-3-1 V2.1.1 or ETSI EN 300 220-3-2 V1.1.1) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Amund Westin Sent: 03 December 2021 08:58 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] RED standard for LoRa sensor end device Checking out the harmonized EU standards, but can’t find any specific radio standard for LoRa devices (operates in the 868MHz band) Anyone who has experience about appropriate standard? The first that comes in my mind is EN 300 220 series. Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] EU CE Marking Exemptions for Military Equipment Query
Philip > They have informed us that there is a CE Marking Exemption for Military > Equipment in France and Germany for these products I suspect what they mean is “our customers in France and Germany are not asking for evidence of CE compliance” That’s perfectly fine – the customer has nothing to do with it as the obligation to comply with EMCD and LVD is on he manufacturer and they cannot be exempted by a customer. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Matthew Wilson | GBE Sent: 22 October 2021 11:35 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EU CE Marking Exemptions for Military Equipment Query It’s old now but this article, written by someone working for TUV SUD, was handy for me when needing to deal with the ‘military exempt argument’ a while ago. https://www.newelectronics.co.uk/electronics-technology/the-military-ce-marking-conundrum/64803/ It agrees with your stance, which I personally also agree with, FWIW. “They have informed us that there is a CE Marking Exemption for Military Equipment in France and Germany for these products” Why not ask them for documentary proof or some such of the exemption? They may well struggle! Good luck. Matthew Wilson, GB Electronics (UK) Ltd. [cid:image001.png@01D7C73E.196331F0] Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the company, unless specifically stated. GB Electronics (UK) Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales under number 06210991. Registered office: Ascot House Mulberry Close, Woods Way, Goring By Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY. From: Philip Stevenson mailto:pw...@hotmail.co.uk>> Sent: 21 October 2021 11:16 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] EU CE Marking Exemptions for Military Equipment Query Dear All I am contacting this forum for advice on whether there are any EU CE Marking Exemptions for Military Equipment in France and Germany? My reason for asking is that the manufacturers of Military off the shelf equipment (MOTS) who are based in France and Germany that we incorporate into some of our Military CE marked products which we manufacture. They have informed us that there is a CE Marking Exemption for Military Equipment in France and Germany for these products. These products are not covered by Article 296 and therefore not specifically exempt CE Marking. This equipment also falls within the scope of the EMC Directive. My view is that Military equipment not covered by Article 296 do not have a general exemption to CE marking EMC requirements and that exemptions for specific applications are contained within certain directives such as 2014/53/EU Radio Equipment and 2011/65/RoHS Directives, but other directives such as EMC and Low Voltage Directives do not contain any exemption. Is my assessment correct? If you prefer please contact me directly at my personal Email address below and I will not post these replies online. Regards Philip Stevenson Email: pw...@hotmail.co.uk<mailto:pw...@hotmail.co.uk> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=04%7C01%7Cmatthew.wilson%40gbelectronics.com%7Ca13968a157c04093dbc808d9947bc20f%7C0991060a48f54e72abaa7189692c6192%7C1%7C0%7C637704081525408366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=A8HbYGG993laHHBSPLjqva7w03aW58z3WJzSLNup5Ew%3D&reserved=0> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmatthew.wilson%40gbelectronics.com%7Ca13968a157c04093dbc808d9947bc20f%7C0991060a48f54e72abaa7189692c6192%7C1%7C0%7C637704081525408366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=6a0a1dt7gDKh4I35R3QCqrSQjmav8cTVG1rNskQ83Fo%3D&reserved=0> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://eur02.safelin
[PSES] IEC 62368-3:2017 evaluation of USB 2.0 ports
All I realise there are now applications where 100W or more can be transferred, but for devices with only USB2.0 ports, that are coming from the same chip, is there really any need for testing and CB certification to this standard as part of an assessment to IEC 62368-1? The particular products I’m looking at are powered from external 5V LPS power supplies that shutdown at around 4.5 A I may just be being cynical, but I can’t see how the -3 standard makes such a product any safer, it just seems to make the test lab richer 😊 Is there something in the CB scheme rules that mandates using the -3 standard as well when seeking CB certificate? Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Will 5G Be Bad for Our Health?
Not come across this before, but according to Press release Europeans for Safe Connections, September, 2021 - Stop 5G International<https://stop5ginternational.org/press-release-europeans-for-safe-connections-september-2021/> What exactly is a European Citizens’ Initiative or ECI? A European Citizens’ Initiative is a democratic way for citizens to directly influence the EU by proposing new laws to the European Commission. Soon after the registration is accepted by the EU Commission the ECI will be open for Europeans to sign. There is 1 year to gather the signatures for the Initiative. When the Initiative has reached over 1 million legal signatures, the European Commission is obliged to consider the proposals and the ECI will also be discussed in the European Parliament. It looks as though it’s a method for EU citizens to make the EU Parliament discuss something, though not necessarily change anything We have Petitions - UK Government and Parliament<https://petition.parliament.uk/> and I guess other countries might have similar national petitions Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Colin Wilson Sent: 19 October 2021 16:46 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Will 5G Be Bad for Our Health? What do we think will come out of this: COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING DECISION (EU) 2021/1828 of 7 October 2021 on the request for registration of the European citizens’ initiative entitled ‘Stop (((5G))) – Stay Connected but Protected’ pursuant to Regulation (EU) 2019/788 of the European Parliament and of the Council https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dec_impl/2021/1828/oj Colin From: John Allen mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com>> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 5:00 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Will 5G Be Bad for Our Health? [EXTERNAL EMAIL] DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Very well put Dan. Where in the risk assessment does it talk about “prudent avoidance”? A toaster is hot and has uninsulated live parts accessible while energized with a known shock hazard. Have a nice weekend!! Best Regards and Be Safe, John John Allen President & CEO Product Safety Consulting, Inc www.productsafetyinc.com<http://www.productsafetyinc.com> On Oct 15, 2021, at 3:45 PM, Dan Roman <0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:0d75e04ed751-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> wrote: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. A Friday thought: Where would we be if “prudent avoidance” was all we ever did? Is this 5G situation overly conservative or just outright lazy because someone didn’t do the science to come up with a definitive result? Do people protesting 5G have any basis? Did 5G cause COVID-19? I digress to the ridiculous. My background and rambling thoughts on the topic are: Humans have been bathed in electromagnetic fields from the earth, sun, and cosmos since emergence from single-celled organisms and a soup of primordial building blocks. We may have introduced new frequency ranges and field strengths, but if life on earth was that susceptible, we would not have gotten beyond those first DNA and RNA strands forming. No one has been able to convince me that non-ionizing RF within regulated power levels, which are based on thermal effect hazards with margin, cause harms that are meaningful or unacceptable. Sure, there have been non-thermal claims over the years, but none has held up under scrutiny, peer-review, or attempts to duplicate the results. According to the NTSB, the annual odds that a typical American will die in a plane crash are about 1 in 11 million. Around 1 in 9 thousand for a car crash annually. Both of these are acceptable as we still fly or ride in a car. The level of risk is accepted. It doesn’t appear RF exposure is as dangerous as a car ride. Probably not as dangerous as a plane trip either. How does prudent avoidance fit in? Did the keynote speaker at one of the USA IEEE EMC Symposia get there by car or plane? Based on what I personally have read, I am comfortable with 5G, the Wi-Fi in my house and in public, the Bluetooth and 4G in my phone, airport screening, and my ham radio hobby. The risk equation includes harm and exposure. I do not personally believe the harm extends beyond what we already know about and I am comfortable with the existing limits on exposure levels. Low risk for me personally that I am more comfortable with than flying. I also don’t believe that people can have a Wi-Fi allergy. Others may have come to different conclusions. We all set our own risk tolerance levels over a wide range of personal activities an
Re: [PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape
Rich, Ted, All The product has an outer enclosure that provides suitable mechanical strength and the battery is IEC62133 compliant charged and discharged via a suitable chip There's a product requirement for a yellow enclosure, and we can't find a suitable yellow plastic with enough fire retardancy. The issue is that Clause M.4.3 mandates a fire enclosure and it's never clear (to me anyway) whether some batteries actually have their own fire enclosure as I don't see this listed anywhere, and you might get for Conditions of Acceptability for a Recognised Component PSU. If a LiIon battery really does "cook off" I'm not sure what enclosure would actually contain it - I guess it might be as much about whether the enclosure provides more fuel, but I'm not sure as to the intent of the clause in the standard Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Richard Nute Sent: 08 October 2021 22:42 To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape Hi Charlie: Rather than guess: https://www.kaptontape.com/PDF/Kapton_Films_Datasheet.pdf https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/amer/us/en/products/ei-transformation/documents/DEC-Kapton-HN-datasheet.pdf https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/amer/us/en/products/ei-transformation/documents/EI-10167-Kapton-General-Specifications.pdf After looking at the above specs, I'm inclined to believe that Kapton tape will provide an acceptable fire enclosure (as good as any other plastic material). It is tough stuff! And relatively expensive. If you are going to test it (as suggested by Ted), I suggest a side-by-side test with the alternate fire enclosure plastic material. Note that IEC 62368-1 uses IEC 60695-11-10 for flammability rating rather than UL 94 and UL 510. There are no specific requirements for fire-enclosure tape. Stay safe, and best regards, Rich From: Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>> Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape All Various Kapton tapes are sold as Flame Retardant, some seem to reference UL 94 and others UL 510. The scenario is a product falling under EN 62368-1 and the secondary lithium battery needs a fire enclosure and rather than using the product enclosure, one could be made for the battery using a suitable plastic or manual application of retardant tape. Is there any correlation between UL 510 and UL94 when considering creating a Fire Enclosure for a battery as per Clause M.4.3 ? Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsulisconsultants.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Ca6e307923eb9431b804a08d98a5f1a71%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637692963354416861%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bDpGeGKKgswxO6hhPR9RaXpY1x1P2RWBVKILs58KSnk%3D&reserved=0> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape
All Various Kapton tapes are sold as Flame Retardant, some seem to reference UL 94 and others UL 510. The scenario is a product falling under EN 62368-1 and the secondary lithium battery needs a fire enclosure and rather than using the product enclosure, one could be made for the battery using a suitable plastic or manual application of retardant tape. Is there any correlation between UL 510 and UL94 when considering creating a Fire Enclosure for a battery as per Clause M.4.3 ? Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing
EN 61000-4-2 specifies a minimum air pressure of 860 mbar but, * 920 mbar is the centre of a cat 5 hurricane at sea level * 860 mbar is about 4500m above sea level Hardly the most rigorous set of criteria ever written into a standard 😊 Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> Sent: 29 July 2021 17:32 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing John, You need to address your question to the committee that is responsible for the standard you are questioning. Remember that the standards writing business is a BOGSAT process (Bunch Of Guys Sitting Around a Table). Most of the participants are there because they know something about the subject (subject expert matter delegates) or they have some issue that they either want addressed or want to have it excluded from the standard (latter is usually not disclosed until deep into the discussion). If the leader can come up with a comprehensive outline as to the subjects to be addressed then the process will be more comprehensive; if not it will be less organized. Specifically for this case; why did the committee write another standard that seems to cover the same ground as a base standard IEC 61000-4-2? Wot’s the rationale for this additional standard? Standards writing is not a scientific endeavor (even tho it uses scientific principles, such as you pointed out); It’s like sausage making – but don’t go into the kitchen if you aren’t ready to be involved in making the sausage… If you have strong feelings about the completeness of the product level standard perhaps you should be on the committee and straighten it out. Don’t just grumble, get involved. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 1067 Albany, ORe 97321-0413 503/452-1201 IEEE Life Fellow IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer www.researchgate.net<http://www.researchgate.net/Peter%20Perkins> search my name p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> Entropy ain’t what it used to be From: John Flavin mailto:jfla...@vermeer.com>> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 5:39 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Climatic conditions for ESD testing IEC 61000-4-2 specifies climatic conditions for air discharge, including barometric pressure. ISO 10605 (ESD for road vehicles) is silent about barometric pressure. As I remember, air pressure influences the reproducibility of air discharges, which I assume is why IEC 61000-4-2 specifies limit on it. (ISO 10605:2008 even says this in Annex E.) So, if it’s important, why is this not specified in ISO 10605? [cid:image001.jpg@01D784A1.D2CB5120] John Flavin Senior EMC Engineer 1860 Vermeer Road East | Pella, IA USA 50219 O: 641-621-8958 jfla...@vermeer.com<mailto:jfla...@vermeer.com> vermeer.com<http://www.vermeer.com/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=emailsignature&utm_campaign=mysignature.vermeer.mobi> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://ww
Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?
Darren The “Conformity Assessment Body” is the Notified Body (EU) of Competent Body (UK) This advice isn’t as clearly written as it could be – that last sentence has nothing to do with product testing or test labs Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Darren @ Vitesses Sent: 19 June 2021 13:20 To: Charlie Blackham Cc: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance? Hi Charles Can you explain your last sentence, “ the conformity assessment bodies that test them need to be different” From my understanding a test lab can test to mutiple country standards and results used, ssuming its self declaration . Sent from my iPhone On 19 Jun 2021, at 12:44, Charlie Blackham mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>> wrote: Andy > some folks are asking for a UK test report Some folks are confused then 😊 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britain Using both the CE and UKCA marking Both the CE and UKCA mark can be placed on a product so long as neither impedes the visibility of the other and requirements of both the GB and EU legislation are met. The essential requirements and standards that can be used to demonstrate conformity with them for UKCA marked goods have not changed. That means that if your good is currently made to the technical requirements necessary for CE marking then it will be made to the same technical requirements that exist for UKCA marking. However, the conformity assessment bodies that test them may need to be different. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: worldwideemc mailto:worldwide...@gmail.com>> Sent: 18 June 2021 19:57 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance? Hi Darren, Thank you for the information. It makes sense that the CE report should be sufficient but some folks are asking for a UK test report. I believe I'm not the only one confused on this topic. BR, Andy On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 11:38 AM Darren @ Vitesses mailto:vites...@btinternet.com>> wrote: Hi Andy Yes If the reports show you meet the relevant standards that would be fine But also many international standards are the same, eg the Aus/NZS standard has a different name but the set up and limits are identical. So a report to thoes standards would support a claim of compliance to the en standards regardless of the country. I would recommend drawing up a document explaining the reasoning behind it. Regards Darren Sent from my iPhone On 18 Jun 2021, at 18:28, worldwideemc mailto:worldwide...@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello All, Can I use my European EMC test report to claim compliance to UK regulations? I understand I need to generate a UKCA DoC and apply the UKCA marking. The UK designated standards list at the link below lists EN standards without any reference to a British Standard... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/942100/ds-0007-21-emc-notice.pdf. Any input from the list experts would be appreciated! -- BR, Andy Parker - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> -- Regards, Andrew Parker - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files,
Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance?
Andy > some folks are asking for a UK test report Some folks are confused then 😊 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/placing-manufactured-goods-on-the-market-in-great-britain Using both the CE and UKCA marking Both the CE and UKCA mark can be placed on a product so long as neither impedes the visibility of the other and requirements of both the GB and EU legislation are met. The essential requirements and standards that can be used to demonstrate conformity with them for UKCA marked goods have not changed. That means that if your good is currently made to the technical requirements necessary for CE marking then it will be made to the same technical requirements that exist for UKCA marking. However, the conformity assessment bodies that test them may need to be different. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: worldwideemc Sent: 18 June 2021 19:57 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Test Report for UK Compliance? Hi Darren, Thank you for the information. It makes sense that the CE report should be sufficient but some folks are asking for a UK test report. I believe I'm not the only one confused on this topic. BR, Andy On Fri, Jun 18, 2021 at 11:38 AM Darren @ Vitesses mailto:vites...@btinternet.com>> wrote: Hi Andy Yes If the reports show you meet the relevant standards that would be fine But also many international standards are the same, eg the Aus/NZS standard has a different name but the set up and limits are identical. So a report to thoes standards would support a claim of compliance to the en standards regardless of the country. I would recommend drawing up a document explaining the reasoning behind it. Regards Darren Sent from my iPhone On 18 Jun 2021, at 18:28, worldwideemc mailto:worldwide...@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello All, Can I use my European EMC test report to claim compliance to UK regulations? I understand I need to generate a UKCA DoC and apply the UKCA marking. The UK designated standards list at the link below lists EN standards without any reference to a British Standard... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/942100/ds-0007-21-emc-notice.pdf. Any input from the list experts would be appreciated! -- BR, Andy Parker - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> -- Regards, Andrew Parker - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Webs
Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign
Scott I’ve not read it (44 pages) but EU LVD market enforcement did a report “Non-functional Hot Surfaces Project” https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/5263/attachments/1/translations Some standards, such as EN 60335-2-9 (Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-9: Particular requirements for grills, toasters and similar portable cooking appliances) have different limits if equipment is labelled The ISO symbol IEC 60417 - 5041, Caution, hot surface (iso.org)<https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iec:grs:60417:5041>, is often referred to, but I’m not aware that colours or contrast is mandated Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Brian Kunde Sent: 26 May 2021 18:08 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Hot surface sign Usually, high-temperature surface warning symbols are only required if the hazard is not obvious. So in ovens, stovetops, griddles, toasters, heat-sinks, etc. do not require them. However, if such appliances or device have areas that are hot but it is not obvious it is hot, a warning symbol might be required. At home, I have a 2-slice toaster. It is a "Cool Touch" toaster that has no hot exposed surfaces, except from the small surface between the two slots on the top. So the manufacturer engraved the symbol on the metal surface. Not a bad idea. But back in the day, the sides of a toaster got really hot; hot enough to melt the Wonder Bread bag. As a kid, I think every toaster I ever saw had a Wonder Bread bag melted on the side. The Other Brian On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 10:04 AM Scott Xe mailto:scott...@gmail.com>> wrote: In some cooking appliances, there are some hot surfaces that may cause burn injury and safety standards suggest putting a hot surface sign to alert the users. * Is there any specific colour requirement? Common practice is black colour on yellow background or white colour on black background. * Is an embossed sign black on black considered as a legible sign in EU criteria perspective? * In case of ink-printed label, is it put on the top of the hot surface or next to the hot surface? If on the top of surface, the colours are protected from heat degradation and specialized adhesives should be used to withstand higher temperatures. Is there any test criteria for verification? Thanks and regards, Scott - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are
Re: [PSES] Shipping samples to UK
Christopher Nothing has changed that affects shipment of samples for test and/or evaluation Just make it clear on the documentation as always Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Chris <0133def26cf0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> Sent: 25 May 2021 22:02 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Shipping samples to UK Folks, We would like to ship some non revenue samples to BT in UK. Frequency C-band 3.8-4.2 GHz. Does UK custom allow import of non revenue Access Point samples for evaluation. Any info will help as UK rules are different compared to Europe. Thanks in advance Christopher - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Retesting needed for EN 61010-1:2010/A1:2019??
https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-61010-1-2010-a1-2019 gives clause by clause changes Unfortunately you will need to review it against your product with existing report to see which clauses are applicable and what changes any applicable clauses would require Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Wiseman, Joshua Sent: 25 May 2021 13:06 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Retesting needed for EN 61010-1:2010/A1:2019?? When I reviewed it for our products the biggest impact for us is documentation, Clause 5.4. With that said there are some changes that could impact products. For example, 6.3.1 changed the voltages for what is deemed hazardous. I'm not sure if there is a list of changes anywhere, but the impact should really be based on the individual product. Josh Joshua Wiseman Staff Engineer, Product Safety/EMC/Systems From: Rodriguez, Daniel (ESP) <123de38bd494-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:123de38bd494-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 7:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] Retesting needed for EN 61010-1:2010/A1:2019?? EXTERNAL SENDER: Verify links, attachments and sender before taking action Good morning all I have just reviewed the EN 61010-1:2010/A1:2019 and there a lot of changes. Most of them seems clarifications but I am not sure if we need to retest equipment checked for EN 61010-1:2010 to add A1:2029 Does anyone have a clear picture: 1.if retesting is required 2.if yes there is any cases that not (or which clauses requires testing) Thank you for your answers! Kind Regards / Saludos cordiales / Mit freundlichen Grüßen Daniel Rodríguez Sr. Equipment Compliance Specialist EMEA T +34 673556249 E drodrig...@ecolab.com<mailto:drodrig...@ecolab.com> ecolab.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain proprietary and privileged information for the use of the designated recipients named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C4406e63fa7dd4285f15508d91f738210%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637575403240567373%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=UsBMr8ijqzwm2Mkv6ULZc14J3q5XnzknNAbdvN%2FCq8U%3D&reserved=0> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C4406e63fa7dd4285f15508d91f738210%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637575403240567373%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HKxsTSH1KmiSdNNkURIEha0B1XjX8%2FI5YpLQQinDV1c%3D&reserved=0> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C4406e63fa7dd4285f15508d91f738210%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637575403240577331%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=y%2Fv2qBOkTineVQfPzKANmwaIykeAt6fZBA8sfJPcng4%3D&reserved=0> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C4406e63fa7dd4285f15508d91f738210%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637575403240577331%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xqDVhjX1st8A7FX%2F3l0NK2rkXXb5W%2BzCK26TB4R0qvs%3D&reserved=0> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostic
Re: [PSES] South African SABS EMC Testing
Carl From what you say, the product was failing and now is passing and yet the hardware is identical Unless I’ve misunderstood you, the lab may struggle to believe that the unit is unchanged if the emissions profile has changed – more importantly they don’t have anything to put on the report to explain what has happened to the device whilst it wasn’t at the lab. If the fix was a firmware change that changed something of the operating mode, I could also see why they would want to re-test Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Carl Newton Sent: 17 May 2021 23:26 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] South African SABS EMC Testing Hi Rich, I agree with the circumstances that you've described below. But in this case there was no mod. The hardware was returned briefly to the manufacturer for some verification and now the lab is telling us that they have to re-test simply because the hardware left their lab. I understand that there are circumstances in the course of EMC testing where a modification might cause a problem "elsewhere" (I call it squeezing the balloon). It's not uncommon. But in this case there are no changes to hardware and we're being told that this re-testing is being imposed simply because it briefly left their building. The fellow that's managing the project for this NRTL tells me that this is his first S.A. project and he's on a learning curve. Lucky me. Best regards, Carl On 5/17/2021 5:43 PM, Richard Nute wrote: Hi Carl: I cannot confirm that the SABS accreditation requires re-testing. However, this not unusual. I have experienced this same situation in safety testing. If a failure, the complete complement of tests is repeated on the “fixed” unit or another unit. The test house doesn’t know whether the fix affected the other test results. Sometimes, only the fix is tested again – if the test house makes a determination that the fix is unlikely to affect the other test results. They will consider your rationale that the fix does not affect the other test results, but not necessarily accept your rationale. Stay safe, and best regards, Rich From: Carl Newton <mailto:emcl...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 11:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] South African SABS EMC Testing Group, I'm writing to ask if anyone in the group is familiar enough with South African SABS EMC testing through accredited labs to answer my question regarding sequence of testing. I'm trying to get an ITE setup through a major USA NRTL EMC lab in order to get the SABS EMC Certificate of Compliance. We had a radiated emissions issue after the conducted emissions testing was completed upon AC mains and Ethernet port. The hardware setup was returned to the manufacturer and subsequently returned to the EMC lab without change. Now the EMC lab is telling me that their SABS accreditation demands that all conducted emissions be repeated because the hardware setup left the lab's possession (and adjusted their quote accordingly). Can anyone on the list here confirm that SABS lab accreditation mandates this type of action? Thanks, Carl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org
Re: [PSES] EU DoC on Thumb Drive?
Carl A number of other Directives such as RED and Machinery also require DoC to be provided with equipment In the absence of Guidance that says you can provide it electronically it is best to work on the basis that you must not – Customs / Market enforcement will expect to be able to find the DoC if they inspect the product, and if it’s not in print format they won’t be able to as they’re not going to load up a CD or USB stick, and you will be considered to be shipping “non-compliant” product Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Carl Newton Sent: 13 May 2021 20:36 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EU DoC on Thumb Drive? Group, I've not been able to find anything that suggests that the EU DoC can be provided with the product electronically for a medical device. I sent an inquiry to the commission and received no response. The MDD and MDR require that the DoC is shipped with each product and I have a customer that would like to include it on a thumb drive document package that will ship with the device rather than a paper hard-copy. Do any of you have experience with this question that you can share? Thanks in advance, Carl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] EU Authorized Representative service for Market Surveillance Regulation (EU) 2019/1020
Strictly speaking the manufacturer doesn’t need a formal agreement with the Importer, the importer take on that responsibility under the Directive as soon as they import something from manufacturer who is not in the EU The problem is that many “companies who import” don’t know that they are “importers” with responsibilities as defined in the directive The obligations on the importer are clear (in the Directive) and should be the responsibility of the importer alone, but experience of market enforcement is that these “companies who import” are doing what is required (and probably don’t know they need to as they may be importing products falling under multiple directives) and of course the “manufacturer” has their name on the product and packaging and is easy to identify Reality and best practice may well dictate that a written agreement is best way forward. Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Carl Newton Sent: 06 May 2021 20:43 To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EU Authorized Representative service for Market Surveillance Regulation (EU) 2019/1020 Yes Charlie. I used the AR term loosely. There are five types of operator that qualify. Manufacturers still need a formal agreement with one of them. Best regards, Carl On 5/6/2021 2:33 PM, Charlie Blackham wrote: You don’t have to have an Authorised Representative as long as you have an importer who is prepared to act as an importer as defined in the NLF aligned Directives (such as current RoHS, EMC, LVD, RED etc.) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Carl Newton <mailto:emcl...@gmail.com> Sent: 06 May 2021 16:31 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] EU Authorized Representative service for Market Surveillance Regulation (EU) 2019/1020 Can anyone in the group offer one or more references for an Authorized Representative service within the EU that will satisfy the requirements mandated within Market Surveillance Regulation (EU) 2019/1020? This comes into effect on July 16. Please feel free to contact me directly at the CC email address above if you prefer. Thanks very much, Carl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] EU Authorized Representative service for Market Surveillance Regulation (EU) 2019/1020
You don’t have to have an Authorised Representative as long as you have an importer who is prepared to act as an importer as defined in the NLF aligned Directives (such as current RoHS, EMC, LVD, RED etc.) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Carl Newton Sent: 06 May 2021 16:31 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EU Authorized Representative service for Market Surveillance Regulation (EU) 2019/1020 Can anyone in the group offer one or more references for an Authorized Representative service within the EU that will satisfy the requirements mandated within Market Surveillance Regulation (EU) 2019/1020? This comes into effect on July 16. Please feel free to contact me directly at the CC email address above if you prefer. Thanks very much, Carl - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] 13.56 MHz NFC WLC ETSI Standard?
Larry RFID and EAS are forms of "radio communication" so fall within scope of the Radio Equipment Directive (RED), and the applicable article 3.2 Harmonised Standard Wireless Power Transfer by itself does not fall within scope of the RED, it does not have to meet the RED article 3.2. Any communication as part of the power transfer (such as hand-shaking) would fall under RED article 3.2 ETSI EN 303 446-1 V1.2.1 and EN 303 446-2 V1.2.1 provide guidance on testing combined radio and non-radio equipment - the radio aspects has to meet the radio standards and the non-radio aspect the EMC standard and EN 555032 should be considered if the highest frequency in the radio put the EMC upper frequency above upper frequency of the applicable EMC standard (not required in this case) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Larry K. Stillings Sent: 23 April 2021 16:09 To: Charlie Blackham ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: 13.56 MHz NFC WLC ETSI Standard? Hi Charlie, Ok thanks. I was under the assumption that if we are applying ETSI EN 300 330 to a product then the fundamental transmission would have to meet the H-Field 42 dBuA/m or 60 dBuA/m limit spectrum mask limit in Annex I and not unlimited power despite being in an ISM band. I also am assuming that any harmonics generated by the NFC WLC technology would only have to meet the spurious emissions limits in Table 6 from 30 to 1000 MHz and not have to meet the EN 55032 Class A or Class B limits for anything transmission related to the transmitter as explained in EN 303 446-1 and -2. Larry K. Stillings Compliance Worldwide, Inc. Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World! FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - Product Safety 357 Main Street Sandown, NH 03873 (603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445 complianceworldwide.com<https://complianceworldwide.com/> Follow us on social media [cid:image001.png@01D7385B.D21E27D0] linkedin.com/company/compliance-worldwide-inc [cid:image002.png@01D7385B.D21E27D0] twitter.com/complianceww Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. From: Charlie Blackham Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 10:53 AM To: Larry K. Stillings mailto:la...@complianceworldwide.com>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: 13.56 MHz NFC WLC ETSI Standard? Larry ETSI EN 303 417 is for Wireless Power Transmission rather than low frequency communication and is looking at bands that aren't currently ISM or are restricted in some regions. It's looking at wireless charging for vehicles and other uses with the power transfer running up into kW. 13.56 MHz is already an ISM band with unrestricted power, so 13.56 MHz NFC WLC technology doesn't need a new standard to be developed EN 300 330 V2.1.1 is the appropriate standard, and there's no power limit for the 13.553 - 13.567 MHz band Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Larry K. Stillings mailto:la...@complianceworldwide.com>> Sent: 23 April 2021 15:32 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] 13.56 MHz NFC WLC ETSI Standard? Hello All, I was curious if anyone new of any work going on with ETSI to develop or add a standard specifically for 13.56 MHz NFC WLC technology? Looks like to me right now the appropriate standard would be ETSI EN 300 330 V2.1.1 Not sure if they are intending to add the 13.56 MHz band to the ETSI EN 303 417 standard in a future edition, as the scope still stops with the 6.78 MHz band. Or maybe develop a new standard all together or add a new part to EN 300 330 for NFC WLC technology? Larry K. Stillings Compliance Worldwide, Inc. Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World! FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - Product Safety 357 Main Street Sandown, NH 03873 (603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445 complianceworldwide.com<https://complianceworldwide.com/> Follow us on social media [cid:image001.png@01D7385B.D21E27D0] linkedin.com/company/compliance-worldwide-inc [cid:im
Re: [PSES] 13.56 MHz NFC WLC ETSI Standard?
Larry ETSI EN 303 417 is for Wireless Power Transmission rather than low frequency communication and is looking at bands that aren't currently ISM or are restricted in some regions. It's looking at wireless charging for vehicles and other uses with the power transfer running up into kW. 13.56 MHz is already an ISM band with unrestricted power, so 13.56 MHz NFC WLC technology doesn't need a new standard to be developed EN 300 330 V2.1.1 is the appropriate standard, and there's no power limit for the 13.553 - 13.567 MHz band Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Larry K. Stillings Sent: 23 April 2021 15:32 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] 13.56 MHz NFC WLC ETSI Standard? Hello All, I was curious if anyone new of any work going on with ETSI to develop or add a standard specifically for 13.56 MHz NFC WLC technology? Looks like to me right now the appropriate standard would be ETSI EN 300 330 V2.1.1 Not sure if they are intending to add the 13.56 MHz band to the ETSI EN 303 417 standard in a future edition, as the scope still stops with the 6.78 MHz band. Or maybe develop a new standard all together or add a new part to EN 300 330 for NFC WLC technology? Larry K. Stillings Compliance Worldwide, Inc. Test Locally, Sell Globally and Launch Your Products Around the World! FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking - International Approvals - Product Safety 357 Main Street Sandown, NH 03873 (603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445 complianceworldwide.com<https://complianceworldwide.com/> Follow us on social media [cid:image001.png@01D73856.F07E2220] linkedin.com/company/compliance-worldwide-inc [cid:image002.png@01D73856.F07E2220] twitter.com/complianceww Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of my firm shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] test lab for 140 MPH wind testing
All I'm looking for a laboratory who can test a 1m x 1m basestation antenna for resilience to hurricane wind gusts Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: char...@sulisconsultants.com<mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
