RE: South Africa CB (www.cbscheme.org look-up)
Jim, I do not know anything specific about South Africa. But, you may be able to get some information from www.cbscheme.org <http://www.cbscheme.org/> (I think the pages listed below are public access.) Try this... a) First you have to know the code for the "product category" your product falls into and which IEC standard (and edition) your product was evaluated to. (Should be stated on your CB report?) Categories are: BATT, CABL, CAP, CONT, EMC, HOUS, INST, LITE, MEAS, MED, MISC, OFF, POW, PROT, PV, SAFE, TOOL, TOYS, TRON If you don't know, first go to: http://members.iecee.org/iecee/ieceemembers.nsf/IECEEScopeInStandard b) Then, go to http://members.iecee.org/iecee/ieceemembers.nsf/Scope%20by%20Standard%20-%20Cat%20Only?OpenView c) Select your "product category" (BATT, INST, PROT, etc.) For example, MEAS. d) Select the IEC standard applicable to your product. For example, 61010-1 (ed.2) e) You should get a table stating whether "Group differences exists", "National differences exists", etc. (Relies on info provided by IECEE member bodies, etc.) If there are national differences, then you will presumably need a copy of the SA standard to find out what they are. Or your friendly local test house may be willing to advise you... Some general comments about the CB scheme: - Not all IEC standards are in the CB Scheme - If the destination country has not based their national standard for your product on the IEC standard, the CB Scheme doesn't help much or at all (for example, this can be a problem with USA, if the UL standard for your product is not IEC-based) - It works best if the origin country has also adopted the IEC standard, then when you get your "national" approval you can ask for a CB Report up front, and also ask for as many national deviations as you expect to need. Doing it this way should cost less than asking for a CB report later. Remember to tell the lab what countries you expect to need, and what voltages and frequencies your product will be rated at in those countries. - Even if your destination country has no national deviations as such, if your CB report is for 110V 60Hz and the destination uses 230V 50Hz, the receiving lab may - It is awkward if your product was evaluated to (say) the 3rd edition of the appropriate standard, but the destination country is using the 2nd (or 4th) edition. The requirements may be different, additional testing may be required, etc. (When you have your initial evaluation, you should discuss this. You may want to have your product evaluated to 2 versions, but expect this to cost more. Regards, Glyn Garside Subject: South Africa CB From: "Goedderz, Jim" List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Fri, July 11, 2008 3:33 pm To: p...@ieee.org> Group, Can anyone inform me if there are “National Deviations†to the CB scheme for South Africa? Our customer is asking for a CB report, and I see that SA is a CB member, but I don’t have any list of national deviations. Thank you for your support. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
EU Machinery standards: EN 294 and EN 811 (replaced by EN ISO 13857 as of Sept 2008)
EN 294 (safety distances) was not listed in the list of harmonized standards for the EU machinery directive published in the EU Official Journal on 22 June 2008, not even as a withdrawn standard. So I sent an email to ask if it was a mistake... > Dear Mr. Garside, > > Indeed, it was a mistake: we removed the references of the standards > EN 294:1992 and EN 811:1996 but we did not include the reference of > the new standard EN ISO 13857:2008 superseding the two old standards > as by 30.09.2008. > > We are going to correct the mistake with the publication of the new > consolidated lists of harmonised standards under the Machinery > Directive 98/37/EC, as soon as possible. In any case, until the date > indicated 30.9.2008, standards EN 294:1992 and EN 811:1996 are still > harmonised standards. > > We apologize for the inconvenience. > [...] > European Commission - DG Enterprise & Industry > Unit I4 - Mechanical, Electrical and Telecom Equipment Regards, Glyn Garside - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
New lists of harmonized standards for LVD, Machinery, PED, PPE, RTTE
The EU commission has been busy. In the last month, new lists of harmonized standards were published for several "CE-marking" directives, including Machinery & LVD: 2008-07-01: PED, pressure equipment, 97/23/EC 2008-06-24: MD, machinery, 98/37/EC 2008-06-20: PPE, personal protective equipment, 89/686/EEC (corrigendum) 2008-06-10: LVD, low voltage, 73/23/EEC 2008-06-03: RTTE, radio & telecom terminal equipment, 1999/5/EC http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/newapproach/standardization/harmstds/whatsnew.html#new_approach Regards, Glyn Garside - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Ethics grad work Therac-25
You wrote, > Primarily I am interested in the ISO/IEC or international safety standards for software programming of industrial equipment or medical devices. I'll defer to others (Marcelo...) for the medical standards, but since you also asked about industrial equipment, consider, Generic (electrical/electronic products): IEC 61508 www.iec.ch/61508/ This is massive, about 700 pages in 7 parts. For software, consider especially parts 1 and 3. Machinery-specific (electrical/electronic only): IEC 62061 [derived from IEC 61508] Machinery-specific (all technologies: e ectrical/pneumatic/hydraulic/mechanical) ISO 13849-1 and -2 (There are many other standards based on/derived from IEC 61508.) Regards, Glyn Garside - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: UL60950 vs. IEC 60950
Two other general points, even apart from the deviations made by UL from the IEC version: 1) For EU, you need to meet the EN edition, which may also vary from the IEC edition. 2) Unless you specifically asked, the NRTL that evaluated the product to the UL standard may have only evaluated the product for operation at 120V 60Hz. But you may be selling the product for use at 230V 50Hz. Even assuming there are no component changes (between the model evaluated and the model sold in EU), you may need to re-evaluate the insulation, overcurrent protection and spacings. PS: One major deviation that applies to all UL standards is that they require COMPONENTS to meet applicable UL standards. Whereas the IEC and EN editions require that components meet the applicable IEC, EN or HD standards. This can be a huge difference, for example power cords, fuses, etc. Regards, Glyn Garside - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: EN (SPECIFIC )STANDARDS VS THE ~ EQUIVALENT IEC STANDARDS
I am not particularly familiar with those specific standards, but... a) The national versions (BS EN, DIN EN, IS EN, etc.) editions should have the same technical content as the EN (not IEC) version, except the language may vary. In any case the list of harmonized standards published by the EU lists only the EN version. b) The lists of harmonized standards published by the EU show the IEC equivalence, and note whether it is modified. (Sorry, this won't help you, because the standards you list are testing standards, not harmonized standards, but I offer this as a useful tip for others.) For EMC standards, see <http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/newappr ach/standardization/harmstds/reflist/emc.html> http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/newappro ch/standardization/harmstds/reflist/emc.html For example, the entry for EN 61000-6-2:2005 states, "(IEC 61000-6-2:2005)". Whereas the entry for EN 61000-6-4:2001 states, "(IEC 61000-6-4:1997 (Modified)) " c) Similarly, the BSI catalog/catalogue <http://www.bsi-global.com/en/Shop/Pu lication-Detail/?pid=0030043887> http://www.bsi-global.com/en/Shop/Publication-Detail/?pid=0030043887 states for BS EN 61000-6-4:2001, "EN 61000-6-4:2001 Identical, IEC 61000-6-4:1997 Modified" <http://www.bsi-global.com/upload/Stand rds%20&%20Publications/shop.html?epslanguage=EN> http://www.bsi-global.com/upload/Standa ds%20&%20Publications/shop.html?epslanguage=EN Regards, Glyn Garside - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re. Standard voltages for electricity generation
Doug Powell wrote on 04/22/2008 11:57:13: > I am searching for a resource that details standard utility voltages, world-wide. I already have Electric > Current Abroad from the ITA. <http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Publications/blurbs/current2002blurb.html> <http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Publications/blurbs/current2002blurb.html> <http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Publications/blurbs/current2002blurb.html> http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Publications/blurbs/current2002blurb.html > ; but this resource only has commercial/industrial power and does not discuss the higher voltages of > substations and other generating stations. Hi Doug, Sorry for the late reply and also if anyone already made the same comment but: IEC 60038, "IEC Standard Voltages" states that it addresses transmision, distribution as well as utilization voltages. I have seen a copy of the 1983 edition (amendment 1, 1994). There is a 1997 amendment which I have not seen. It looks like an attempt to encourage standardisation. The preface indicates it was not adopted unanimously. I don't know to what extent utilities actually comply with it, but it could be a starting point. Table I is for 100 to 1000V. Table 2 is for traction systems. Table III is for 1 kV to 35 kV, table IV is for 35kV to 230 kV, and table V for 245 kV to 1200 kV. I notice that table I (standardising on 230V/400V for 50 Hz systems) does seem to have been adopted, in EU at least. PS: (drifting off the original question), under Table I, there is an interesting statement, after noting that the SUPPLY voltage (i.e., as delivered to the customer by the utility) should not vary by more than +/-10% of the nominal, "For the utilization voltage range, in addition to the voltage variations at the supply terminals, voltage drops may occur within the customer's installations. For low-voltage installations, this voltage drop is limited to 4 %, therefore the utilization voltage range is +10 %, -14%. This utilization range should be taken into account by Product Committees." I know that some product designers only allow for the 10% tolerance from the utility, and do not make any allowance for volt drops within the building. In large industrial buildings, the product may be installed a long way from the utility connection point. Regards, Glyn Garside - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Machine Nameplate - Full Load Amp rating
> For industrial machinery, the NEC (NFPA 70) requires an FLA marking on the machine nameplate, and that > the value "shall not be less than the sum of the full-load currents required for all motors and other equipment > that may be in operation at the same time under normal conditions of use." I believe that is a quote from NFPA 79 (clause 16.4), not from NFPA 70. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
TONIGHT - Chicago PSTC Meeting - CCC Chinese Compulsory Certification - THURS Sept 25th, 5:30pm for 6pm
Reminder: Ken Thomas 08/15/2003 15:26 To: Subject: Chicago PSTC Meeting Announcement Please see the attached for information on our next meeting. Guests are welcome. Please ask any guest to RSVP so that we can make sure we have enough seats and refreshments. Hope to see you there! Check out our new web page at http://ewh.ieee.org/r4/chicago/pstc/ (Thanks go out to Ron Borowski at QTI) Best regards, Ken Thomas Chair - Chicago PSTC IEEE's PRODUCT SAFETY TECHNICAL COMMITTEE -- CHICAGO CHAPTER List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, September 25, 2003 Place: TUV Rheinland of North America 1945 Techny Rd., Unit 4 Northbrook, IL 60062 Time: 5:30 - 7:30pm Please let us know if you plan on attending so we can plan accordingly. Visitors or new members are welcome to join us. RSVP: Ken Thomas - 630/238-0188 (cell - 630-330-3525) mailto:ktho...@productsafetyinc.com Agenda Items 1. Review of Meeting Minutes from Previous Meeting 2. New Issues/Concerns 3. Chicago PSTC Web Site 4. Presentation -- See description below. Presentation starts at 6:00PM. Presentation: CCC -- Chinese Compulsory Certification As of Aug 1, 2003 of this year a new Compulsory Certification system was implemented in China.This system will be reviewed and topics covered will include identification of which products are affected, the process to obtain certification, the Agent Role in CCC cert- ification and the Organization and Structure behind CCC and its adoption. Presenter: Jonathan Kotrba -- TUV Rheinland N.A. Jonathan has 13 years experience in the product safety field working for Underwriters Laboratories and TUV Rheinland. He is presently an Engineering Group Leader for TUV Rheinland and has recently served as International Certification Manager for TUV Rheinland of North America. Jonathan assists applicants obtain world-wide certifications and approvals for their products, while advancing TUV Rheinland of North America's accreditation and certification programs. In addition, Jonathan serves on several working groups within the CB scheme and is a Peer Assessor for the IECEE. Jonathan's most recent speaking engagements regarding Chinese Compulsory Certification occurred this year with the US Department of Commerce in Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin. Special thanks to TUV Rheinland of North America for sponsoring the meeting site and Intertek Testing Services for sponsoring the evening's refreshments. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Chicago PSTC Meeting -- CCC Chinese Compulsory Certification *Thur Sept 25th, 6pm* [Chapter meeting at 5:30]
Ken Thomas 08/15/2003 15:26 To: Subject: Chicago PSTC Meeting Announcement Please see the attached for information on our next meeting. Guests are welcome. Please ask any guest to RSVP so that we can make sure we have enough seats and refreshments. Hope to see you there! Check out our new web page at http://ewh.ieee.org/r4/chicago/pstc/ (Thanks go out to Ron Borowski at QTI) Best regards, Ken Thomas Chair - Chicago PSTC IEEE's PRODUCT SAFETY TECHNICAL COMMITTEE -- CHICAGO CHAPTER List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thursday, September 25, 2003 Place: TUV Rheinland of North America 1945 Techny Rd., Unit 4 Northbrook, IL 60062 Time: 5:30 - 7:30pm Please let us know if you plan on attending so we can plan accordingly. Visitors or new members are welcome to join us. RSVP: Ken Thomas - 630/238-0188 (cell - 630-330-3525) mailto:ktho...@productsafetyinc.com Agenda Items 1. Review of Meeting Minutes from Previous Meeting 2. New Issues/Concerns 3. Chicago PSTC Web Site 4. Presentation -- See description below. Presentation starts at 6:00PM. Presentation: CCC -- Chinese Compulsory Certification As of Aug 1, 2003 of this year a new Compulsory Certification system was implemented in China.This system will be reviewed and topics covered will include identification of which products are affected, the process to obtain certification, the Agent Role in CCC cert- ification and the Organization and Structure behind CCC and its adoption. Presenter: Jonathan Kotrba -- TUV Rheinland N.A. Jonathan has 13 years experience in the product safety field working for Underwriters Laboratories and TUV Rheinland. He is presently an Engineering Group Leader for TUV Rheinland and has recently served as International Certification Manager for TUV Rheinland of North America. Jonathan assists applicants obtain world-wide certifications and approvals for their products, while advancing TUV Rheinland of North America's accreditation and certification programs. In addition, Jonathan serves on several working groups within the CB scheme and is a Peer Assessor for the IECEE. Jonathan's most recent speaking engagements regarding Chinese Compulsory Certification occurred this year with the US Department of Commerce in Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin. Special thanks to TUV Rheinland of North America for sponsoring the meeting site and Intertek Testing Services for sponsoring the evening's refreshments. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: ESD generators max Contact discharge level
>>On the other hand very low voltage (and energy) events, such as jingling >>change have very high di/dt because of the tens of ps risetimes that >>occur at low voltage. I think this is why, as I recall, some (maybe all?) IEC standards require you to test not only to the ESD level indicated, but also the lower levels too. For example, if you are required to test at level 4, you are also required test at levels 3, 2 and 1. This is counter-intuitive -- "Surely the highest voltage is the worst case?" -- but apparently grounded in good physics, which Doug explains better than I would. PS: As to testing at higher levels than typical IEC values, I have read that the human body can, rarely, gain a charge of up to about 30kV(??), in conditions of low RH. Others may have better insight into this. Also, some manufacturers may want to build some "margin" into their test results: if five samples pass at 8kV, how sure can you be that the next 995 production units would also pass? PPS: I have a question of my own, drifting off topic slightly: if the relative humidity was fairly high when you passed the ESD test, and you retest (esp. air discharge?, or indirect discharge?) some months later when humidity is lower, could the same EUT now fail? (I think the answer is, yes?) Best Regards, Glyn Glyn R. Garside (mailto:ggars...@us.tuv.com) Senior Engineer, Industrial Machinery Division TUV Rheinland of North America, Inc. (Chicago Office) 1945 Techny Rd, Unit 4, NORTHBROOK, IL 60062-5357, USA http://www.us.tuv.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
Re: ESD generators max Contact discharge level
>>Does anyone recall [...] ESD generator that simulated [...] => +-10 kV CONTACT discharge. I agree, your client _probably_ meant air, but better to ask. Nevertheless, as I recall, NoiseKen makes an ESD tester that does 16kV contact / 30kV air. http://www.noiseken.com/english/equip/equip.htm Also, there seems to be a Haefely model -- PESD 3000 -- that offers 25kV contact / 30kV air(?): http://www.compliancesys.com/transientsystems.htm There are probably other products, and most certainly other vendors/distributors. (This was the first one my web search engine came up with.) Online lists of vendors include: http://rbitem.com/products/default.asp USUAL DISCLAIMERS APPLY! For information only. This is not intended to be an endorsement of any product, vendor or website. Best Regards, Glyn Glyn R. Garside (mailto:ggars...@us.tuv.com) Senior Engineer, Industrial Machinery Division TUV Rheinland of North America, Inc. (Chicago Office) 1945 Techny Rd, Unit 4, NORTHBROOK, IL 60062-5357, USA http://www.us.tuv.com TEL 847-562-9888 ext 25 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
RE: Indoor use symbol -- what standards?
It's a nice symbol, and potentially useful. Rich's original question asked which countries require it. Surely any "German standard for household use products" would have been withdrawn and replaced by one or more Harmonized standards by now? On the other hand, when using a Notified &/or Competent body, I gather they have the power (based on their engineering judgement) to either waive some requirements of harmonized standards, or impose additional requirements (or both). regards, glyn Glyn Garside (Director, Engineering Services) mailto:glyn.gars...@adept.com Adept Technology Inc, 150 Rose Orchard Way, San Jose, CA 95134, USAhttp://www.adept.com TEL +1(408)434-5057FAX +1(408)434-5163 Robots & motion controls; Robot, CMM, NC & assembly simulation. -Original Message- From: Art Michael [mailto:amich...@connix.com] Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 18:14 To: Rich Nute Cc: Product Safety Technical Committee Subject: Re: Indoor use symbol -- what standards? Hi Rich, The only place I ever ran into this req't was for German approvals. The attached graphic image was derived from a third-generation copy of a page from some German standard. I then cleaned it up and used it for a TUV Rheinland approval. (I do recall some discussions regarding which half of the house the chimney belonged on. The attached file is believed to be correct, since it was used to layout the markings label, but do check with your test lab to be certain.) Regards, Art Michael * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * International Product Safety Bookshop * * Check out our current offerings! * * <http://www.safetylink.com/bookshop.html> * * * * Another service of the Safety Link* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- On Fri, 16 Jul 1999, Rich Nute wrote: > > > > > Hello from San Diego: > > > What countries and what standards require the "indoor use: > symbol? > > This symbol is comprised of a stick-figure house with an > arrow pointing from outside to inside. > > My experience with this symbol is through TUV Product Service. > They require its use because (they told me) it is required by > a German standard for household use products. I do not know > the standard. > > When TUV Product Service made me use the symbol, I asked for > the standard reference and a printed example. They had none. > So, one of their engineers drew the symbol and provided it to > me. (This was some years ago.) > > The symbol is not in either the IEC symbol standard or the > ISO symbol standard. > > I don't know of any product standard that requires the symbol. > > Perhaps one of the subscribers to this list can provide more > information about what country and what standards require this > symbol? > > > Best regards, > Rich > > > - > This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, > jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or > roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). > > > - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: French Customs demand EC Declaration!
For those of you whose product is "machinery", Article 2 of the Machinery Directive http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1998/en_398L0037.html contains the following: --- "3. At trade fairs, exhibitions, demonstrations, etc., Member States shall not prevent the showing of machinery or safety components which do not conform to the provisions of this Directive, provided that a visible sign clearly indicates that such machinery or safety components do not conform and that they are not for sale until they have been brought into conformity by the manufacturer or his authorized representative established in the Community. During demonstrations, adequate safety measures shall be taken to ensure the protection of persons." --- You might reasonably argue with customs that if they prevent you importing it, they are preventing you from showing it. Although clearly a useful exemption, note that you & your employees (normally) retain ownership, control, custody, supervision, etc. at a trade show; which is very different from a Beta site, where you may (or may not) retain ownership, but the customer is operating the machinery. Also, I'm not sure what you are supposed to do about EMC & LVD compliance, if they also apply to your machine. (I think this came up before on this listserv, might be worth us all reading the archives!) regards, glyn Glyn Garside (Director, Engineering Services) mailto:glyn.gars...@adept.com Adept Technology Inc, 150 Rose Orchard Way, San Jose, CA 95134, USAhttp://www.adept.com TEL +1(408)434-5057FAX +1(408)434-5163 Robots & motion controls; Robot, CMM, NC & assembly simulation. -Original Message- From: Grant, Tania (Tania) [mailto:tgr...@lucent.com] Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 09:59 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; 'andreas.tho...@toshiba-teg.com' Subject: RE: French Customs demand EC Declaration! Thomas, Read the fine print in the EMC Directive regarding "placing [equipment] on the market" and "putting it into service." You also might want to have your legal representative take a look. I read that providing 'samples' to potential customers is "placing [equipment] on the market" but not "putting it into service." There is another DRAFT directive that seems to take into account equipment still in the final design stages that is sent to potential customers to undergo further testing with the customer's equipment, i.e., sometimes called BETA. However, that is for EMC. The LVD safety directive does not seem to make any provisions for any BETA systems. If anyone has any more insight into this, I would be very much interested in hearing about this. Tania Grant, Lucent Technologies, Octel Messaging Division tgr...@lucent.com -- From: andreas.tho...@toshiba-teg.com [SMTP:andreas.tho...@toshiba-teg.com] Sent: Friday, July 16, 1999 1:15 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: French Customs demand EC Declaration! Dear All, the process to import production machines into the EU seems clear, but have you considered the problem of samples, too ? Usually, samples are used for evaluation purposes and cannot often be marked with CE because the CE compliance tests should be done at least with the final version. Therefore, no CE-Declaration can be issued and the customs may stop these samples at the border (we experienced the same problems with the French customs). How do you handle sample shimpments into the EU ? Kind regards Andreas Thomas Toshiba Europe GmbH - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: where to buy EMC standards
If you have web-access, the FCC regulations (CFR 47) can be downloaded (free) from both the FCC website WWW.FCC.GOV and the US Government Printing Office website WWW.GPO.GOV. Some ANSI standards (but not C63.4) can be downloaded (if you pay for them!) from WWW.ANSI.ORG Some ISO and other standards can also be purchased & downloaded from ANSI. You can download a catalog for $10. Many IEC standards can be downloaded (for a charge) from WWW.IEC.CH - see below. The CENELEC website WWW.CENELEC.BE lists titles, status and (very useful!) _scope_ of EN standards. But as far as I know, there is no source for downloading EN standards. For hard-copies, the IEC website (www.iec.ch) lists "National Committees and other Sales Outlets" for most countries. For Singapore, it lists: Singapore Productivity and Standards Board (PSB) 1 Science Park Drive SG-118221 SINGAPORE TP: +65 279 39 20 TF: +65 377 06 69 E-Mail: sa...@psb.gov.sg URL: http://www.psb.gov.sg You should be able to buy some or all ISO, IEC (& CISPR?) standards from the PSB. I think you can also visit their office to read copies of the standards. The IEC standards (now numbered IEC 61000-x-x), and CISPR 22, can also be bought directly from IEC Web Store (www.iec.ch). Many IEC standards, including most EMC stds, are available as electronic files for immediate download (charged to any major credit card). You can also order a hardcopy to be mailed to you if you prefer. Either way, the price is quoted in Swiss Francs, check with your bank or a major newpaper for the current exchange rate. You will get an email confirmation of your irder, plus a hardcopy receipt will be airmailed to you from Switzerland. Last time I used this, I had the standard on my computer within 2 minutes, and I printed a hardcopy for myself. The receipt arrived by airmail 5 days later (Switzerland to USA). EXTRACT from www.iec.ch: . "Buy any of IEC's 4500 (mostly bilingual English/French) publications from the IEC Web Store in electronic (PDF) and/or hard-copy versions. Some 1000 publications are also available in Spanish. Language versions are marked in the Search results. Electronic versions (where available) can be downloaded immediately or within 5 days of placing the order for use on single-user workstations only. Hard-copy versions (all publications) will be delivered to your shipping address. Some 1000 IEC publications are now available in Spanish." PS: You didn't say which countries in Europe, but if you meant the EU or EEA, I believe officially you should be declaring compliance to the EU- harmonized versions of the standards, e.g. EN 61000-x-y etc., not to the IEC editions. However, I think that the EN 61000-series is identical in technical content (word for word) with the IEC versions? You can buy the paper editions of the "EN" standards from many sources, in several languages. The English editions can be bought from BSI (United Kingdom), ANSI (USA) and also from several commercial distributors, including Global Engineering Documents here in USA (see earlier replies). I don't know if you can yet buy "electronic" editions of any EN standards. -regards, Glyn R Garside Adept Technology, Inc. (San Jose, California, USA.) ___ Subject: where to buy EMC standards From:Qu Pingyu at Internet-Mail List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:1999-04-30 09:31 Hello, everyone: We would like to buy the following EMC standards (US and Europe): 1. CISPR 22 2. IEC - 1000 - 1,2,3,4 3. FCC CFR 47, Vol.1 4. ANSI C63.4 I suppose that these are the most frequently-used standards in EMC testing. (Do I miss anything ?). I would appreciate if anybody could tell me where I can buy these standards. Regards Qu Pingyu - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re[2]: Wiring Requirements
In UK, BS 7671 (1992) "Requirements for Electrical Installations", also (better?) known as the "IEE Wiring Regulations, 16th edition") makes a distinction between "fixed wiring" and "flexible cables and flexible cords". (Section 514, "Selection and Erection of Equipment".) This appears to be for historical consistency with long-standing UK practise, in the case of (my words) wiring attached to the building, and for EU harmonization in the case of wiring attached to the equipment. But they have to meet somewhere. (BS 7671 claims, as of 1992, partial harmonization with IEC pub. 60364 and numerous CENELEC "harmonziation documents", such as HD 308.) In summary (BS 7671 table 51A) for 3 phase AC _FIXED_ WIRING, colo[u]rs are as stated by John: red,yellow,blue, black (N), green/yellow (Protective...conductor). There are exceptions. Also, for PVC cable you can use sleeving, etc., and for thermosetting insulation you can use numbered cores...) But for 3-phase "flexible cables and flexible cords" (table 51B), phase are "brown or black", neutral is Blue, PE is green-and-yellow. Again there are exceptions and applicability issues, see the standard. You are allowed to _add_ numbers or letters if you want to distinguish the phases (L1, L2, L3 etc.) And, remember, this is just the "Installations" standard, not an equipment standard. (In US, there is a similar distinction: The fixed wiring is mainly controlled by NFPA 70 (a.k.a. the "National Electrical Code"); and wiring that is part of machinery is [also? instead?] governed by NFPA 79 "Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery". In reality, the final installation needs to comply with both. But that's another story.) regards, Glyn Garside (Usual disclaimers apply...) PS: Martin J. only asked about colors, but don't forget that in most cases, you also need to use "Harmonized" Cordage (marked with ), which can be a problem in the US market as the HAR requirements can conflict with UL requirements. I think Olflex make a flexible cable which although not , is rated for UL and IEC compliance; they number the conductors... ___ Subject: RE: Wiring Requirements From:"Crabb John" at Internet-Mail List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:1998-11-23 11:04 The third edition of IEC 60446 "Basic and safety principles for man-machine interface, marking and identification - Identification of conductors by colours or numerals" is at the FDIS (Final Draft International Standard) stage, with voting terminating on December 15. There is "parallel voting" for acceptance by CENELEC as EN 60446. The document number (for anyone interested) is 16/377/FDIS. The FD states that "green-and-yellow" SHALL be used for identifying protective conductors; but there is a note stating that "in the USA, Canada, and Japan, ..greenis used as equivalent to ...green-and-yellow". It also states "where a circuit includes a neutral or mid-point conductor,...the colour used ...shall be blue. In order to avoid confusion with other colours, it is recommended to use an unsaturated colour blue, called here LIGHT BLUE". But again there is a note "In the USA, Canada and Japan, ...white or natural grey for the mid-wire or neutral conductor is used as replacement for...light blue". It also states "AC-phase conductors. The colours black and brown are PREFERRED for AC-phase conductors of systems."My capitals !! DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A WELL WRITTEN STANDARD. I wonder how the USA are going to vote ?? In the UK, for 3 phase wiring, we use red, yellow, and blue for the 3 phases, black for neutral, and green/yellow for earth. For single phase wiring, we use brown for line and light blue for neutral, and green/yellow for earth. (It used to be red for line and black for neutral). Maybe some the other "Europeans" out there can tell us what they do. I have found a "European style" 3 phase cord in a catalogue - the colours are blue, brown, black, black, green-yellow !! John Crabb, Product Safety Engineer, NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd, Dundee, Scotland. > -Original Message- > From: Martin Johnson [SMTP:calpe1...@yahoo.com] > Sent: 20 November 1998 10:03 > To: emc-p...@ieee.org > Subject: Wiring Requirements > > Can anybody tell me which (European)specification explicitly defines > the colour of insulation for wiring (internal and external). > Presumeably its going to be EN60XXX (can somebody fill in the X's for > me!!) > > Obviously green/yellow for earth, but what is defined for > phase/neutral. I have seen brown/black for used for phase and light > blue for neutral, but have also seen red/yellow etc for
Re: Where We Do It
..or Where We Did It? Sounds like I'm getting into this field (no pun intended) too late, just as everyone(?) seems to be moving from picturesque 30m OATS to indoor 10m chambers in boring office buildings with aesthetics somewhere between a walk-in closet and a bus depot. At our third-party 30m OATS (Hollister, CA, USA; as in "The Wild Bunch" [a movie reference, not disparagement of the lab techs]) the farm animals and other non-electromagnetic ambients help distract from the frustrations of isolating sources of "negative margin" -- but maybe not for long? - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Language Translation
We also have very technical installation and operation manuals, for a range of industrial robots, robot controllers, machine vision (recognition/measurement) software, etc. I asked our Tech Pubs dept., I attach response below. We translate from US-English to German, French, Italian. Our manuals are in FrameMaker, with illustrations in Adobe Illustrator. We have tried to keep English-text off the drawings, but inevitably some creeps in, and needs translation. Our English-language edition has both metric and inch units, so the translators do not have to make metric conversions. (We also use metric threads, so at least they don't need to explain what a '1/2-13 x 2" UNC' is, nor where to buy one in EU!) -glyn Glyn Garside: Director,Engineering Services | TEL (408)434-5057 glyn.garside @ adept.comwww.adept.com | FAX (408)434-5163 Adept Technology, 150 Rose Orchard Way, San Jose, CA 95134, USA Robots, Motion Controls & Simulation (robot, CMM, NC, assembly) ___ Subject: Re: Language Translation From:Michael.Rowe at Adept_Cincinnati List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:1998-11-17 09:36 We use Alpnet in Salt Lake City. They seem to do a very good job. We get positive comments from the native language reviewers about the quality of the technical translations. Translations are expensive, but I watch the market and Alpnet is competative. My opinion is that they are responsive and conscientious. The contact is Joe Noble, 801 273-6600, jno...@alpnet.com Feel free to use my name. ___ Subject: Language Translation From:"Bill Somerfield" at Internet-Mail List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:1998-11-16 14:41 Group, Does anyone in the group have any experiences, references, or suggestions on having highly technical operators manuals translated from English to other languages (EU)? The manuals are about 150 pages of a mixture of text, tables, and graphics. Thank you for any responses in advance, Respectfully, Bill Somerfield QA/Compliance Manager Elizabeth-Hata International Banco Industrial Park Irwin, PA 15642 USA Phone: 724-864-6632 Fax: 724-864-6635 bi...@eliz.com su...@telerama.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Acoustic Emissions
Definitely _not_ an answer (Ed specifically asked re. OSHA and California OSHA) but: For _Machinery_ in EU countries (and maybe some EEA countries?), the EU Machinery Directive (89/392/EEC plus amendments) specifically requires the manufacturer to _state_ the sound level, if it exceeds various levels, one of which is 70dB (A). I attach some extracts from the Directive. I think there are some harmonized (EN) standards that address measuring techniques. Maybe there are some product-specific stds that address additional limits? -glyn garside (usual disclaimer/personal opinions/etc.) EU Machinery Directive (89/392/EEC, plus amendment 91/368/EEC), Annex 1: 1.5.8 Noise Machinery must be so designed and constructed that risks resulting from the emission of airborne noise are reduced to the lowest level taking account of technical progress and the availability of means of reducing noise, in particular at source. 1.7.4 Instructions [...] (f) The instructions must give the following information concerning airborne noise emissions by the machinery, either the actual value or a value established on the basis of measurements made on identical machinery: -- equivalent continuous A-weighted sound pressure level at workstations, where this exceeds 70 dB(A); where this level does not exceed 70 dB(A), this fact must be indicated, -- peak C-weighted instantaneous sound pressure value at workstations, where this exceeds 63 Pa (130 dB in relation to 20 mPa), -- sound power level emitted by the machinery where the equivalent continuous A-weighted sound pressure level at workstations exceeds 85 dB(A) In the case of very large machinery, instead of sound level, the equivalent continuous sound pressure levels at specified positions around the machinery may be indicated. Where the harmonized standards are not applied, sound levels must be measured using the most appropriate method for the machinery. (91/368/EEC) The manufacturer must indicate the operating conditions of the machinery during measurement and what methods have been used for the measurement. Where the workstation(s) are undefined or cannot be defined, sound pressure levels must be measured at a distance of 1 meter from the surface of the machinery at a height of 1.60 meters from the floor or access platform. The position and value of the maximum sound pressure must be indicated. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list administrators).
Re: Salary of Safety Professionals
I just re-read the charter of this maillist; I _think_ this response just qualifies. (If anyone interprets differently, my apologies, email me privately, please let's not compound with "reply-all" to the list.) Not specific to safety, but our host has recently published: "1997 IEEE US Membership Salary & Fringe Benefit Survey" Apparently includes info on income and benefits vs education, function, area, industry, etc. List price quoted $99.95 (+tax etc); members' price $64.95 until May 15. Order# UH2966-QJS. IEEE Service Center, Cust Svc Dept, 445 Hoes Ln, PO Box 1331, Piscatawy NJ 08855-9916. Also, I think the AEA (American Electronics Association, which represents companies [i.e., employers]) also publishes a survey. Maybe a good library could locate these and other publications? Glyn Garside --writing in personal capacity-- _ On another matter, here's how to SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE to this list, for the many who have apparently forgotten, and whose mail software (e.g., cc:Mail) arbitarily removes the header info. Hope it helps. [extracts, dated Mar 1996] ** If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send mail to "majord...@ieee.org" with the following command in the _body_ of your email message (not the subject!): unsubscribe emc-pstc (Do not include the brackets < or > ). ** To SUBSCRIBE, send mail to "majord...@ieee.org" with the following command in the _body_ of your email message: subscribe emc-pstc (Do not include the brackets < or > ). ** To send a message to the EMC-PSTC discussion group, simply send an e-mail message to the following address: emc-p...@ieee.org All mail sent to this Internet address will be immediately echoed to everyone on the EMC-PSTC list by an automated list server. ** To get more information about using the IEEE's EMC-PSTC discussion group, send an e-mail message to majord...@ieee.org and place only the following command in the body of the message: help ** Please put your name at the end of any message you send (some email addresses do not identify the sender adequately). Also, it is suggested that you include your position in your company and your company name. EMC-PSTC Regulatory E-Mail Grapevine Charter and Guidelines 10 March 1995 The EMC-PSTC is an informal group of people interested in Product Safety regulations and standards world-wide, networked electronically by mailing list. Its purpose is to provide a forum for the sharing of public, but possibly obscure Product Safety or Regulatory Compliance information, or related information with limited natural distribution. All mail sent to the Internet address will be immediately echoed to everyone on the list by an automated list server. DISCLAIMER: All postings are the sole responsibility of the message originators. The IEEE PSTC and its volunteers, staff members and members of the PSN staff do not assure the correctness or viability of any information distributed by the list server, nor accepts any responsibility for the use of any distributed information. MESSAGE CONTENT GUIDELINES: 1. Correspondence should be limited to information or queries relating to Product Safety or Regulatory Compliance standards only. Any information should not be confidential or in any way proprietary. Please don't use the EMC-PSTC for simple correspondence - Private correspondence should be addressed directly, unless it has broad appeal or interest. 2. Blatant or overt advertising of goods or services is not permitted. The list server is provided as a service by the IEEE, whose policies prohibit anything that might be construed as conflict of interest. Exceptions: a) Short, non-promotional "trailers" or signature lines for the sole purpose of identifying the sender and the sender's organization. b) Answers to queries about goods or services, where the intent of the answer is to inform, but not promote. (When in doubt, send the questioner a private message.) c) This guideline is specific to the use of the this list server, and in no way inhibits individuals from contacting members privately and independently. 3. Posting of job openings is OK so long as they are short (i.e., 1 paragraph), non-commercial (no agencies or headhunters - no fees involved), infrequent (about one out of every 10 messages or less), and contain an off-EMC-PSTC contact name and phone number or e-mail address. Same goes for jobs-wanted (if you can fit your resume into one pa
Re: alt.ce.mark
Actually, I got it OK last time. I'd like to add to it but haven't managed yet. Well, hey, let's try now. Here goes, with the usual disclaimers, plus a few more in case I offend anyone either on this side of the pond or on your side... ce: === Completely Excessive, Closed Europe, Can't Export? Changed Extrusions, Connectors Eliminated: Compliance Expensive. Consultants Extrapolate Compliance Excuses. Can't Extricate; Compile Extra-documentation: Celf Exemption! EMC: Every Minute Crack, Electricity May Creep: Electrocute More Customers? Europe May Contract; Even May Cause European Micro Climate! Even My Computer's Extra Metal Cabinet Easily Makes Cost-overrun. Every Means Conceives Extra Messy Compliance:- Eliminate Margins Completely! Extend My Contract! [with notified &/or competent body] End Mass Commerce! Exclude Major Competitors! PS: Even Maastrict Considered European Monetary Confusion Extremist Mercenary Commission. PPS: Don't show this to the DG of the EU or they'll convene an IGC, notify the AER and the WEU, take us to the ECJ, draft a COMDOC, write us up in the OJ, launch EUROPOL to search the EU, EEA, and EFTA and impose a fine of several MECUs (plus VAT). We'll have to leave RACE, BRITE, join the ERM, become an SMA, and hide in a quiet ESA. [Hey, it's all a great thing really, it will bring us all closer together, we can sell more stuff to each other, the customers will love it, and they won't mind a bit about the cost. I am sure our competitors won't take any short cuts and won't just stick a new label on their old design.] ~glyn :) ___ Subject: alt.ce.mark From:"hud...@sim.mrcs.gecm.com" <"SIM::"@MSIM.CO.UK> at UNIX-PO List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date:7/26/96 09:09 My internet email seems to have packed up (who's that cheering at the back?) so I'm trying an experiment to see if the Nutscrape newsgroup reader will send this. I actually sent it last week, but it vanished: It's Friday, and the end of a long week, so I thought I'd bring some levity into these hallowed halls: Does anybody know of alternative definitions for EMC and CE ? The one's I have so far are: Even More Confusion End of My Career Exclusively Male Club Easy Money for Consultants ElectroMagnetic Compromise European Market Closed Competent bodies Everywhere Costs the Earth Check Everything Committee Extravaganza Feel free to add your (non-crude !) ideas to the list. PS: Before I get any flak - no offence intended to Consultants and Competent Bodies! -- -- Alan Hudson email1 hud...@msim.co.uk email2 100534@compuserve.com If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too? Acceptance Testing: Dropping your mods straight into the production environment to see if the user will accept them. -
