Re: [PSES] power plugs
Hi Ted, Do they have an formal interpretation of it, otherwise, it would be a grace area and down to individual authority to judge if it complies the mains plug standard. You are quite right the direct plug-in power suppliers with Europlug configuration needs to comply with product standard rather than the mains plug standard, ie. EN 60950. Regards, Scott On 27/1/12 3:07 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hello Scott, It¹s up to the individual regulatory authorities as to which approvals they will accept or require. Having multiple approvals reduces the risk of a problem in any one country. However, it¹s unlikely that you will find a plug with approvals from all 27 members of the EU, the 4 EFTA members and the multiple other countries that will accept the Europlug. I¹ve not had issues with plugs that have had approvals from just a few of the Western European countries. That being said, I¹ve seen plenty of direct plug-in power supplies with a Europlug configuration that have nothing more than a CE mark and possibly an approval from TÜV. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:09 AM To: Ted Eckert; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs Hi Ted, Thanks for info. Did you mean the Europlug needs to have all countries approval or to have any one approval only before legally used in all European countries. Scott On 25/1/12 2:33 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hello Scott, The Europlug is commonly accepted across Europe with the exception of the countries that use the BS 1363 plug. You will find that a Europlug complying with EN 50075 and IEC 60884-1 can get approvals from all of the major European approvers. Here is one example http://www.volexpowerproducts.com/index.php?option=com_ecatalogtask=plugdeta ilsclassid=1countryid=1plugid=178Itemid=31 that has CEBEC, Demko, Fimko, IMQ, KEMA KEUR, Nemko, ÖVE, Semko, ESTI and VDE. (I am referencing this one vendor only because I know they clearly list the approvals on their web site. There are plenty of other cord vendors with similar products.) The restrictions to the use of the Europlug are that the equipment must be Class II and rated no more than 2.5 A. If you meet these requirements, you will find that there are generally no regulatory barriers to including this plug with your product. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation 1 Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052 (425) 707-9205 ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com This email message may contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:12 AM To: Ted Eckert; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs In Europe, Euro plug is widely used and accepted although each country may have their own plug. As in EN standard, the product must be fitted with the plug in the country where the product is sold. Is Euro plug legally correct in those countries? I have learnt that it is allowed as the population of some European countries is relatively small. Otherwise, the product may be higher in price and they get less choice from the suppliers. Anyone knows about this practice? Thanks and regards, Scott On 24/1/12 10:18 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hi Brian, You will want the CEE 7/7 for most of Europe. It works in almost any European outlet that doesn't accept one of the three that you mentioned. The BS 1363 covers the UK, Ireland and Malta. The SEV 1011 only covers Switzerland. Make sure your supplier conforms to the new SEV 1011:2009 since Switzerland will require partially insulated pins next year. The CEI 23-16 will work only in Italy. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] mailto:[mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian -
Re: [PSES] power plugs
In message bccfb88541b04d419dbc184fcf787...@tamuracorp.com, dated Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: NCB = National Certification Body CBTL = Certification Body Test Laboratory We have accredited test houses (accredited by national accreditation services to ISO 17250) and Notified Bodies. I suppose you could say they are NCBs, but I don't think the term is widely used in Europe. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
Hi Ted, Thanks for info. Did you mean the Europlug needs to have all countries approval or to have any one approval only before legally used in all European countries. Scott On 25/1/12 2:33 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hello Scott, The Europlug is commonly accepted across Europe with the exception of the countries that use the BS 1363 plug. You will find that a Europlug complying with EN 50075 and IEC 60884-1 can get approvals from all of the major European approvers. Here is one example http://www.volexpowerproducts.com/index.php?option=com_ecatalogtask=plugdeta ilsclassid=1countryid=1plugid=178Itemid=31 that has CEBEC, Demko, Fimko, IMQ, KEMA KEUR, Nemko, ÖVE, Semko, ESTI and VDE. (I am referencing this one vendor only because I know they clearly list the approvals on their web site. There are plenty of other cord vendors with similar products.) The restrictions to the use of the Europlug are that the equipment must be Class II and rated no more than 2.5 A. If you meet these requirements, you will find that there are generally no regulatory barriers to including this plug with your product. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation 1 Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052 (425) 707-9205 ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com This email message may contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:12 AM To: Ted Eckert; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs In Europe, Euro plug is widely used and accepted although each country may have their own plug. As in EN standard, the product must be fitted with the plug in the country where the product is sold. Is Euro plug legally correct in those countries? I have learnt that it is allowed as the population of some European countries is relatively small. Otherwise, the product may be higher in price and they get less choice from the suppliers. Anyone knows about this practice? Thanks and regards, Scott On 24/1/12 10:18 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hi Brian, You will want the CEE 7/7 for most of Europe. It works in almost any European outlet that doesn't accept one of the three that you mentioned. The BS 1363 covers the UK, Ireland and Malta. The SEV 1011 only covers Switzerland. Make sure your supplier conforms to the new SEV 1011:2009 since Switzerland will require partially insulated pins next year. The CEI 23-16 will work only in Italy. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] mailto:[mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com mailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
Re: [PSES] power plugs
Hello Scott, It's up to the individual regulatory authorities as to which approvals they will accept or require. Having multiple approvals reduces the risk of a problem in any one country. However, it's unlikely that you will find a plug with approvals from all 27 members of the EU, the 4 EFTA members and the multiple other countries that will accept the Europlug. I've not had issues with plugs that have had approvals from just a few of the Western European countries. That being said, I've seen plenty of direct plug-in power supplies with a Europlug configuration that have nothing more than a CE mark and possibly an approval from TÜV. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.commailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:09 AM To: Ted Eckert; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs Hi Ted, Thanks for info. Did you mean the Europlug needs to have all countries approval or to have any one approval only before legally used in all European countries. Scott On 25/1/12 2:33 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hello Scott, The Europlug is commonly accepted across Europe with the exception of the countries that use the BS 1363 plug. You will find that a Europlug complying with EN 50075 and IEC 60884-1 can get approvals from all of the major European approvers. Here is one example http://www.volexpowerproducts.com/index.php?option=com_ecatalogtask=plugdetailsclassid=1countryid=1plugid=178Itemid=31 that has CEBEC, Demko, Fimko, IMQ, KEMA KEUR, Nemko, ÖVE, Semko, ESTI and VDE. (I am referencing this one vendor only because I know they clearly list the approvals on their web site. There are plenty of other cord vendors with similar products.) The restrictions to the use of the Europlug are that the equipment must be Class II and rated no more than 2.5 A. If you meet these requirements, you will find that there are generally no regulatory barriers to including this plug with your product. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation 1 Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052 (425) 707-9205 ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com This email message may contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:12 AM To: Ted Eckert; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs In Europe, Euro plug is widely used and accepted although each country may have their own plug. As in EN standard, the product must be fitted with the plug in the country where the product is sold. Is Euro plug legally correct in those countries? I have learnt that it is allowed as the population of some European countries is relatively small. Otherwise, the product may be higher in price and they get less choice from the suppliers. Anyone knows about this practice? Thanks and regards, Scott On 24/1/12 10:18 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hi Brian, You will want the CEE 7/7 for most of Europe. It works in almost any European outlet that doesn't accept one of the three that you mentioned. The BS 1363 covers the UK, Ireland and Malta. The SEV 1011 only covers Switzerland. Make sure your supplier conforms to the new SEV 1011:2009 since Switzerland will require partially insulated pins next year. The CEI 23-16 will work only in Italy. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com mailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] mailto:[mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/
Re: [PSES] power plugs
In message e9c52f9e77c43c49a56a22691b3680be255...@tk5ex14mbxc302.redmond.corp.micro soft.com, dated Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com writes: It?s up to the individual regulatory authorities as to which approvals they will accept or require. Not in Europe. Any legitimate approval has to be accepted everywhere in EU and EFTA. Not all 27+4 have approval bodies. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
Is NCB or CBTL the definition of 'legitimate approval' ? They do not always accept other reports. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:09 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs In message e9c52f9e77c43c49a56a22691b3680be255...@tk5ex14mbxc302.redmond.corp.micro soft.com, dated Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com writes: It?s up to the individual regulatory authorities as to which approvals they will accept or require. Not in Europe. Any legitimate approval has to be accepted everywhere in EU and EFTA. Not all 27+4 have approval bodies. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
In message 3fab9750e2aa4876aafdbb86491db...@tamuracorp.com, dated Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Is NCB or CBTL the definition of 'legitimate approval' ? They do not always accept other reports. I don't recognize those abbreviations. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
NCB = National Certification Body CBTL = Certification Body Test Laboratory -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 1:45 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs In message 3fab9750e2aa4876aafdbb86491db...@tamuracorp.com, dated Thu, 26 Jan 2012, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Is NCB or CBTL the definition of 'legitimate approval' ? They do not always accept other reports. I don't recognize those abbreviations. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] power plugs and outlets
Can you sell CEE 7/4 outlet in France? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs and outlets
No. Has no ground in French sockets. Creating a single fault on purpose… what do you think :) ??? http://img.hisupplier.com/var/userImages/old/qingtai/qingtai$722162956.jpg this is the socket in France. I’d go for the cee7/7 , suitable all over Europe for Class I but some non-euro (€) territories ;)) such as the UK , Italy and Switzerland. UK : http://www.eco-drive.co.uk/images/socket.jpg and for more sockets/plugs : http://www.powercords.co.uk/standard.htm (Not related) Gert Gremmen ce-test qualified testing Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Mark Gandler Verzonden: woensdag 25 januari 2012 19:12 Aan: emc-pstc@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: power plugs and outlets Can you sell CEE 7/4 outlet in France? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs and outlets
Oh I forgot: “single fault” refers to a safety test where the test agency voluntarily removes ground from an EUT to verify that the EUT still complies with the safety requirements. (but with only 1 safety layer remaining) Gert Gremmen Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Verzonden: woensdag 25 januari 2012 20:51 Aan: Mark Gandler; emc-pstc@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: RE: power plugs and outlets No. Has no ground in French sockets. Creating a single fault on purpose… what do you think :) ??? http://img.hisupplier.com/var/userImages/old/qingtai/qingtai$722162956.jpg this is the socket in France. I’d go for the cee7/7 , suitable all over Europe for Class I but some non-euro (€) territories ;)) such as the UK , Italy and Switzerland. UK : http://www.eco-drive.co.uk/images/socket.jpg and for more sockets/plugs : http://www.powercords.co.uk/standard.htm (Not related) Gert Gremmen ce-test qualified testing Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Mark Gandler Verzonden: woensdag 25 januari 2012 19:12 Aan: emc-pstc@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: power plugs and outlets Can you sell CEE 7/4 outlet in France? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs and outlets
In message FCA549BE3ECF9D4CB8CB8576837EA4891403F7@ZEUS.cetest.local, dated Wed, 25 Jan 2012, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl writes: No. Has no ground in French sockets. That projecting pin is the ground. Or should be. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs and outlets
i.e. basic insulation remains after failure of the grounding means. (e.g. a metal chassis still touch-safe) ___ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 01/25/2012 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [PSES] power plugs and outlets Oh I forgot: “single fault” refers to a safety test where the test agency voluntarily removes ground from an EUT to verify that the EUT still complies with the safety requirements. (but with only 1 safety layer remaining) Gert Gremmen Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Verzonden: woensdag 25 januari 2012 20:51 Aan: Mark Gandler; emc-pstc@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: RE: power plugs and outlets No. Has no ground in French sockets. Creating a single fault on purpose… what do you think :) ??? http://img.hisupplier.com/var/userImages/old/qingtai/qingtai$722162956.jpg this is the socket in France. I’d go for the cee7/7 , suitable all over Europe for Class I but some non-euro (€) territories ;)) such as the UK , Italy and Switzerland. UK : http://www.eco-drive.co.uk/images/socket.jpg and for more sockets/plugs : http://www.powercords.co.uk/standard.htm (Not related) Gert Gremmen ce-test qualified testing Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Mark Gandler Verzonden: woensdag 25 januari 2012 19:12 Aan: emc-pstc@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: power plugs and outlets Can you sell CEE 7/4 outlet in France? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities
Re: [PSES] power plugs
Hello Ted, Thought about this plug, but CEE77 fits German CEE74, so could be polarity reversal? Some of my custom products only have line fused (customer's requirements), so cannot allow my factory to ship affected Class I stuff with this cord. So when will EU/EFTA code get these plugs and sockets on the same sheet of heavy metal music? This seems to be a good excuse as any for another war... Any other ideas? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: power plugs Hi Brian, You will want the CEE 7/7 for most of Europe. It works in almost any European outlet that doesn't accept one of the three that you mentioned. The BS 1363 covers the UK, Ireland and Malta. The SEV 1011 only covers Switzerland. Make sure your supplier conforms to the new SEV 1011:2009 since Switzerland will require partially insulated pins next year. The CEI 23-16 will work only in Italy. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
In message 8c72bcefe2534b959ba5f70e54e25...@tamuracorp.com, dated Tue, 24 Jan 2012, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Thought about this plug, but CEE77 fits German CEE74, so could be polarity reversal? Some of my custom products only have line fused (customer's requirements), so cannot allow my factory to ship affected Class I stuff with this cord. Quite a number of safety standards class polarity reversal as 'normal'. Also, the Schuko reversible plug is widely used across Europe, so if your product has a detachable mains lead, it very probably WILL be used with a lead having a Schuko plug. Your customers are not wise. So when will EU/EFTA code get these plugs and sockets on the same sheet of heavy metal music? This seems to be a good excuse as any for another war... It is very unlikely that there will be any further attempts to unify 230 V mains wall-sockets and plugs. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
In Europe, Euro plug is widely used and accepted although each country may have their own plug. As in EN standard, the product must be fitted with the plug in the country where the product is sold. Is Euro plug legally correct in those countries? I have learnt that it is allowed as the population of some European countries is relatively small. Otherwise, the product may be higher in price and they get less choice from the suppliers. Anyone knows about this practice? Thanks and regards, Scott On 24/1/12 10:18 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hi Brian, You will want the CEE 7/7 for most of Europe. It works in almost any European outlet that doesn't accept one of the three that you mentioned. The BS 1363 covers the UK, Ireland and Malta. The SEV 1011 only covers Switzerland. Make sure your supplier conforms to the new SEV 1011:2009 since Switzerland will require partially insulated pins next year. The CEI 23-16 will work only in Italy. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
Hello Brian, You can ship Class I devices with a fuse only on one side and with a non-polarized plug as long as the plug is a grounding plug. Mr. Woodgate is correct in his analysis. I have had VDE specifically require the marking of IEC 60950-1 section 2.7.6 for this situation. That clause is intended for when there is a fuse in the neutral and you have a non-reversible plug. However, VDE interprets the clause to be appropriate for whenever you have a risk of portions of the equipment remaining energized after a fuse opens. Let me state that I've only heard this as an interpretation from VDE and I don't have anything in writing. I am unaware of either a CB Scheme CTL Decision Sheet or UL PAG on this specific clause regarding the use of non-polarized Class I plugs. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 8:34 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs Hello Ted, Thought about this plug, but CEE77 fits German CEE74, so could be polarity reversal? Some of my custom products only have line fused (customer's requirements), so cannot allow my factory to ship affected Class I stuff with this cord. So when will EU/EFTA code get these plugs and sockets on the same sheet of heavy metal music? This seems to be a good excuse as any for another war... Any other ideas? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ted Eckert Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:18 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: power plugs Hi Brian, You will want the CEE 7/7 for most of Europe. It works in almost any European outlet that doesn't accept one of the three that you mentioned. The BS 1363 covers the UK, Ireland and Malta. The SEV 1011 only covers Switzerland. Make sure your supplier conforms to the new SEV 1011:2009 since Switzerland will require partially insulated pins next year. The CEI 23-16 will work only in Italy. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
Hello Scott, The Europlug is commonly accepted across Europe with the exception of the countries that use the BS 1363 plug. You will find that a Europlug complying with EN 50075 and IEC 60884-1 can get approvals from all of the major European approvers. Here is one examplehttp://www.volexpowerproducts.com/index.php?option=com_ecatalogtask=plugdetailsclassid=1countryid=1plugid=178Itemid=31 that has CEBEC, Demko, Fimko, IMQ, KEMA KEUR, Nemko, ÖVE, Semko, ESTI and VDE. (I am referencing this one vendor only because I know they clearly list the approvals on their web site. There are plenty of other cord vendors with similar products.) The restrictions to the use of the Europlug are that the equipment must be Class II and rated no more than 2.5 A. If you meet these requirements, you will find that there are generally no regulatory barriers to including this plug with your product. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation 1 Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052 (425) 707-9205 ted.eck...@microsoft.commailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com This email message may contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. -Original Message- From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:12 AM To: Ted Eckert; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: power plugs In Europe, Euro plug is widely used and accepted although each country may have their own plug. As in EN standard, the product must be fitted with the plug in the country where the product is sold. Is Euro plug legally correct in those countries? I have learnt that it is allowed as the population of some European countries is relatively small. Otherwise, the product may be higher in price and they get less choice from the suppliers. Anyone knows about this practice? Thanks and regards, Scott On 24/1/12 10:18 AM, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.commailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com wrote: Hi Brian, You will want the CEE 7/7 for most of Europe. It works in almost any European outlet that doesn't accept one of the three that you mentioned. The BS 1363 covers the UK, Ireland and Malta. The SEV 1011 only covers Switzerland. Make sure your supplier conforms to the new SEV 1011:2009 since Switzerland will require partially insulated pins next year. The CEI 23-16 will work only in Italy. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.commailto:ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]mailto:[mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules:
Re: [PSES] power plugs
In message cb45076e.15946%scott...@gmail.com, dated Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: In Europe, Euro plug is widely used and accepted although each country may have their own plug. As in EN standard, the product must be fitted with the plug in the country where the product is sold. Is Euro plug legally correct in those countries? It depends on what you mean by 'Europlug'. This term is usually used for the 6 amp 2-pin plug, but it is also, confusingly used for the Schuko plug, 10 amp, roughly circular with 2 pins and side-contacts for earth/ground. The 6 amp 2 pin plug is legal in all countries except UK, I think. There is a version of the Schuko plug which also accommodates the 'other' 10 A wall socket that has a projecting pin for earth/ground instead of side-contacts. This works in France and Italy (most parts) as well as Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria and the Nordic countries. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
small correction/addition: on the plug the grounding socket is additional to the side-contacts making this plug the default plug for all Europe. I would recommend investing in this plug (CEE 7/7 hybrid) for all 10A Class I apparatus. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/CEE_7-7.jpg/220 px-CEE_7-7.jpg For the UK you may order a hand fulf of their oddly shaped giant fused plugs that seems more suitable for a machine that for a computer for example but I must admit that the CEE7/7 plug is rather big also. /humor ON BTW John, how do you take your shaver to the continent, don't you exceed the size limits for hand bagage ? humor OFF -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens John Woodgate Verzonden: dinsdag 24 januari 2012 19:14 Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: Re: power plugs In message cb45076e.15946%scott...@gmail.com, dated Wed, 25 Jan 2012, Scott Xe scott...@gmail.com writes: In Europe, Euro plug is widely used and accepted although each country may have their own plug. As in EN standard, the product must be fitted with the plug in the country where the product is sold. Is Euro plug legally correct in those countries? It depends on what you mean by 'Europlug'. This term is usually used for the 6 amp 2-pin plug, but it is also, confusingly used for the Schuko plug, 10 amp, roughly circular with 2 pins and side-contacts for earth/ground. The 6 amp 2 pin plug is legal in all countries except UK, I think. There is a version of the Schuko plug which also accommodates the 'other' 10 A wall socket that has a projecting pin for earth/ground instead of side-contacts. This works in France and Italy (most parts) as well as Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria and the Nordic countries. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
In message FCA549BE3ECF9D4CB8CB8576837EA4891403EF@ZEUS.cetest.local, dated Tue, 24 Jan 2012, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl writes: small correction/addition: on the plug the grounding socket is additional to the side-contacts making this plug the default plug for all Europe. I would recommend investing in this plug (CEE 7/7 hybrid) for all 10A Class I apparatus. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/CEE_7-7.jpg/220 px-CEE_7-7.jpg I actually did write: There is a version of the Schuko plug which *also* accommodates the 'other' 10 A wall socket that has a projecting pin for earth/ground instead of side-contacts. I will admit that it is perverse of English to use 'also' to mean 'in addition' rather than 'therefore', as it does in a better language. (;-) For the UK you may order a hand fulf of their oddly shaped giant fused plugs that seems more suitable for a machine that for a computer for example but I must admit that the CEE7/7 plug is rather big also. Yes, not much difference. /humor ON BTW John, how do you take your shaver to the continent, don't you exceed the size limits for hand bagage ? humor OFF For the shaver (they still come with a flat version of the British 5 A 2-pin plug as standard) I have adapters, which, being 2-pin, are quite small, but for the portable computer I have British, Continental and US mains leads. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] power plugs
Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
Hi Brian, You will want the CEE 7/7 for most of Europe. It works in almost any European outlet that doesn't accept one of the three that you mentioned. The BS 1363 covers the UK, Ireland and Malta. The SEV 1011 only covers Switzerland. Make sure your supplier conforms to the new SEV 1011:2009 since Switzerland will require partially insulated pins next year. The CEI 23-16 will work only in Italy. Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] power plugs
Hi Brian: You can get country/plug data from a number of sources. Then, you can determine the minimum number of plugs to cover the most number of countries. Do a spreadsheet and a histogram. Then, you need a third dimension, the number of potential customers for each plug. I suppose you can do this by finding the population of each country. Here are some good sources: http://www.dbicorporation.com/internat/intpower.htm http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/publications/pdf/current2002final.pdf http://users.telenet.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm I like the last one (above). Here are some population web sites: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2119ra nk.html Using these sources, you can come up with a population per plug statistic. Best regards, Rich -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: power plugs Want to reduce number of plug types on pwr cords. Where I need ground pin, was thinking of reducing types to CEI23-16, SEV1011, and BS1363A. Is this a stupid idea? Am I missing a major European plug type? thanks, Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
