Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<201048ea81ba0745aca78e4cc8839001037cf...@desmdswms201.des.grplnk.net>, 
dated Mon, 3 Nov 2008, "Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)" 
 writes:


>By not looking at an extended frequency range for emission and 
>immunity, when you know the design employs technology in the extended 
>frequency range, the manufacturer carries an unquantified risk. It is 
>always preferable for the manufacturer to identify and (if possible) 
>quantify the risk so that it may be mitigated if it is too high.
>
>As the banks and financial institutions have discovered, taking too 
>much risk can seriously damage the business. Where would you rate a 
>company who cannot be bothered to identify the risk at all?

Isn't that really the same as :

However, self-interest may suggest that if you know of any EMC effect 
not covered by the applicable standards, you should consider how to test
and what VOLUNTARY limits to apply.

My point is that simply applying a standard outside its scope is not a 
measure that is likely to impress the authorities. We have already had 
people claiming conformity with CISPR 11/ EN 55011 for products outside 
its scope, because it has more relaxed limits than the truly applicable 
standard.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Gert Gremmen]

And one needs to provide proof of compliance to the Essential
Requirements
to the directive by using your [1] or [2]. 
Leaving that out suggests a route too easy to be true...

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen




ce-test, qualified testing bv




Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Haynes, Tim
(SELEX GALILEO, UK)
Verzonden: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:46 AM
Aan: John Woodgate; emc-p...@ieee.org
Onderwerp: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

 John, All,

Sorry - I was wrong to suggest that standards should be found that would
cover frequencies above 1GHz - because ALL harmonised standards under
the EMC Directive are voluntary so there is no legal requirement to
apply harmonised standards.

Under 2004/108/EC it IS a legal requirement to make an EMC Assessment.
The assessment might be done by 

1 applying harmonised standards and, if you do so, you may presume
conformity with the protection (or essential) requirements

2 making a full EMC assessment of the apparatus (using any available
method including modelling and calculation, which may include using
standards whether harmonised or not).

Either 1 or 2 (or a combination) constitutes "an EMC assessment".

In either case, having completed the assessment [to your own
satisfaction] you may declare conformity with the protection
requirements using the evidence  from the assessment.

By not looking at an extended frequency range for emission and immunity,
when you know the design employs technology in the extended frequency
range, the manufacturer carries an unquantified risk. It is always
preferable for the manufacturer to identify and (if possible) quantify
the risk so that it may be mitigated if it is too high.

As the banks and financial institutions have discovered, taking too much
risk can seriously damage the business. Where would you rate a company
who cannot be bothered to identify the risk at all?


Regards
Tim




Tim Haynes A1N10
Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist
SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems 
300 Capability Green
Luton LU1 3PG
Tel  : +44 (0)1582 886239
Fax : +44 (0)1582 795863
Mob: +44 (0)7703 559 310
E-mail : tim.hay...@selexgalileo.com
Please consider the environment before printing this email. 

There are 10 types of people in the world-those who understand binary
and those who don't. J. Paxman


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John
Woodgate
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:48 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

  *** WARNING ***

This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an
external partner or the Global Internet. 
 Keep this in mind if you answer this message. 

In message
<201048ea81ba0745aca78e4cc8839001037cf...@desmdswms201.des.grplnk.net>,
dated Fri, 31 Oct 2008, "Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)" 
 writes:


>Remember that when you apply a standard you are doing so on the basis 
>that the standard covers ALL the product EMC characteristics.
>
>IF you design a PC with a 3GHz clock and only apply a standard with a 
>1GHz limit and then there is a problem with real interference at 3GHz, 
>the authorities may not believe that due diligence had been applied.
>
>So I would start asking - what does the product do - and then find 
>standards that may be useful in making your EMC assessment.

In almost all circumstances there is NO legal requirement in Europe to
do this. If the applicable product standard does  not cover a particular
frequency range, the committee concerned saw no need for limits in that
range, and by notifying the standard in the OJEC, the Commission has
accepted that the standard gives prima facie evidence of complying with
the Directive.

You DO NOT have to trawl though all the EMC standards that exist,
looking for another one to apply, almost certainly OUTSIDE ITS SCOPE.

However, self-interest may suggest that if you know of any EMC effect
not covered by the applicable standards, you should consider how to test
and what VOLUNTARY limits to apply.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to
stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop
it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

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Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:

 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
 Mike Cantwell   mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:

 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)]

 John, All,

Sorry - I was wrong to suggest that standards should be found that would
cover frequencies above 1GHz - because ALL harmonised standards under
the EMC Directive are voluntary so there is no legal requirement to
apply harmonised standards.

Under 2004/108/EC it IS a legal requirement to make an EMC Assessment.
The assessment might be done by 

1 applying harmonised standards and, if you do so, you may presume
conformity with the protection (or essential) requirements

2 making a full EMC assessment of the apparatus (using any available
method including modelling and calculation, which may include using
standards whether harmonised or not).

Either 1 or 2 (or a combination) constitutes "an EMC assessment".

In either case, having completed the assessment [to your own
satisfaction] you may declare conformity with the protection
requirements using the evidence  from the assessment.

By not looking at an extended frequency range for emission and immunity,
when you know the design employs technology in the extended frequency
range, the manufacturer carries an unquantified risk. It is always
preferable for the manufacturer to identify and (if possible) quantify
the risk so that it may be mitigated if it is too high.

As the banks and financial institutions have discovered, taking too much
risk can seriously damage the business. Where would you rate a company
who cannot be bothered to identify the risk at all?


Regards
Tim




Tim Haynes A1N10
Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist
SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems 
300 Capability Green
Luton LU1 3PG
Tel  : +44 (0)1582 886239
Fax : +44 (0)1582 795863
Mob: +44 (0)7703 559 310
E-mail : tim.hay...@selexgalileo.com
Please consider the environment before printing this email. 

There are 10 types of people in the world-those who understand binary
and those who don't. J. Paxman


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John
Woodgate
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:48 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

  *** WARNING ***

This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an
external partner or the Global Internet. 
 Keep this in mind if you answer this message. 

In message
<201048ea81ba0745aca78e4cc8839001037cf...@desmdswms201.des.grplnk.net>,
dated Fri, 31 Oct 2008, "Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)" 
 writes:


>Remember that when you apply a standard you are doing so on the basis 
>that the standard covers ALL the product EMC characteristics.
>
>IF you design a PC with a 3GHz clock and only apply a standard with a 
>1GHz limit and then there is a problem with real interference at 3GHz, 
>the authorities may not believe that due diligence had been applied.
>
>So I would start asking - what does the product do - and then find 
>standards that may be useful in making your EMC assessment.

In almost all circumstances there is NO legal requirement in Europe to
do this. If the applicable product standard does  not cover a particular
frequency range, the committee concerned saw no need for limits in that
range, and by notifying the standard in the OJEC, the Commission has
accepted that the standard gives prima facie evidence of complying with
the Directive.

You DO NOT have to trawl though all the EMC standards that exist,
looking for another one to apply, almost certainly OUTSIDE ITS SCOPE.

However, self-interest may suggest that if you know of any EMC effect
not covered by the applicable standards, you should consider how to test
and what VOLUNTARY limits to apply.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to
stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop
it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

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 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
 Mike Cantwell   mcantw...@ieee.org

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 David Heald:   dhe...@gmail.com

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SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems Limited
Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 
3EL
A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132

This email and any attachments are confidential to th

Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[John Woodgate]

In message <8A23BE5F815D41408CB01F1F4621F88E0395E8E1@S1.DLSEMC.local>, 
dated Fri, 31 Oct 2008, Bill Stumpf  writes:


>While I agree that the advice in the TGN was somewhat ambiguous, one 
>could have easily justified the use of FCC limits, test methods, and 
>criteria for testing above 1GHz.  At the time nothing else was 
>available.

Well, maybe. But there is no guarantee that IF a European regulator 
queried the product, mention of 'FCC' might do more harm than good. NIH, 
you know.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

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 David Heald:   dhe...@gmail.com

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Bill Stumpf]

While I agree that the advice in the TGN was somewhat ambiguous, one
could have easily justified the use of FCC limits, test methods, and
criteria for testing above 1GHz.  At the time nothing else was
available.

Bill



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John
Woodgate
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:33 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

In message <8A23BE5F815D41408CB01F1F4621F88E0395E879@S1.DLSEMC.local>,
dated Fri, 31 Oct 2008, Bill Stumpf  writes:


>Basically it states that if a product has the potential to interfere at

>frequencies above 1GHz, it should be checked using appropriate limits 
>and test methods.

WHAT 'test methods'? WHAT 'appropriate limits'? I think the advice is 
very unsatisfactory.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to
stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You
choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

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 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
 Mike Cantwell   mcantw...@ieee.org

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 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald:   dhe...@gmail.com

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc

-

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Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[John Woodgate]

In message <8A23BE5F815D41408CB01F1F4621F88E0395E879@S1.DLSEMC.local>, 
dated Fri, 31 Oct 2008, Bill Stumpf  writes:


>Basically it states that if a product has the potential to interfere at 
>frequencies above 1GHz, it should be checked using appropriate limits 
>and test methods.

WHAT 'test methods'? WHAT 'appropriate limits'? I think the advice is 
very unsatisfactory.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:

 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
 Mike Cantwell   mcantw...@ieee.org

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 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald:   dhe...@gmail.com

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

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RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Bill Stumpf]

Way back in 2003 this issue was addressed in an ECACB (now ECANB)
Technical Guidance Note (TGN 9), which we've been using since then.
Basically it states that if a product has the potential to interfere at
frequencies above 1GHz, it should be checked using appropriate limits
and test methods.  It is important to remember that using harmonized
standards only gives the presumption of conformity.  

This TGN is available on the CIRCA website
[circa.europa.eu/Public/irc/enterprise/emccbnb/home]


Bill Stumpf
D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc.
EMC Testing & Consulting
166 South Carter Street
Genoa City WI, 53128
262-279-0210
 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim
Hulbert
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 8:38 AM
To: Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Tim - true enough, and as Engineers we can't disagree from a technical
perspective. However, manufacturers are going to test only to what they
HAVE to test to, i.e. there is a presumption of conformity with the EMC
Directive if the manufacturer applies those standards published in the
OJ that apply to his product.  Apparently for EN 55022 that is still the
1 GHz max frequency for measurement.  For time-to-market and cost
reasons, they stop there.

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview
Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Haynes,
Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 8:30 AM
To: rehel...@mmm.com; Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Ghery, Rob, all

Remember that when you apply a standard you are doing so on the basis
that the standard covers ALL the product EMC characteristics.

IF you design a PC with a 3GHz clock and only apply a standard with a
1GHz limit and then there is a problem with real interference at 3GHz,
the authorities may not believe that due diligence had been applied.

So I would start asking - what does the product do - and then find
standards that may be useful in making your EMC assessment.

Regards
Tim




Tim Haynes A1N10
Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist
SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems
300 Capability Green
Luton LU1 3PG
Tel  : +44 (0)1582 886239
Fax : +44 (0)1582 795863
Mob: +44 (0)7703 559 310
* E-mail : tim.hay...@selexgalileo.com

Please consider the environment before printing this email.
There are 10 types of people in the world-those who understand binary
and those who don't. J. Paxman



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
rehel...@mmm.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:57 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

  *** WARNING ***

This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an
external partner or the Global Internet.
 Keep this in mind if you answer this message.

So if I understand this, there is no testing  required for Europe above
a gigahertz for EN 55022 at this time?

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
=




 "Pettit, Ghery"

 
To
   "rehel...@mmm.com"

 10/30/2008 04:47  

 PM
cc
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"

   


Subject
       RE: Radiated Emission
Measurements
   above 1GHz

















That is correct.  It was quickly withdrawn and reissued without the
limits above 1 GHz.  I'm still waiting for my updated copy from Global,
too.  :-)


From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:54 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Ghery, are you saying that the BS version has the error and was
withdrawn?
If so we were not notified of this action by British Standards. We get
their standards through their subscription service.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===



 Robert E.
 Heller/US-Corpora
 te/3M/US
To
   "Pettit, Ghery"
 10/30/2008 03:45  
 AM
cc
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
           

Subject
   RE: Radiated Emission
Measurements
   above 1GHz(Document link: Robert
E.

Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<201048ea81ba0745aca78e4cc8839001037cf...@desmdswms201.des.grplnk.net>, 
dated Fri, 31 Oct 2008, "Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)" 
 writes:


>Remember that when you apply a standard you are doing so on the basis 
>that the standard covers ALL the product EMC characteristics.
>
>IF you design a PC with a 3GHz clock and only apply a standard with a 
>1GHz limit and then there is a problem with real interference at 3GHz, 
>the authorities may not believe that due diligence had been applied.
>
>So I would start asking - what does the product do - and then find 
>standards that may be useful in making your EMC assessment.

In almost all circumstances there is NO legal requirement in Europe to 
do this. If the applicable product standard does  not cover a particular 
frequency range, the committee concerned saw no need for limits in that 
range, and by notifying the standard in the OJEC, the Commission has 
accepted that the standard gives prima facie evidence of complying with 
the Directive.

You DO NOT have to trawl though all the EMC standards that exist, 
looking for another one to apply, almost certainly OUTSIDE ITS SCOPE.

However, self-interest may suggest that if you know of any EMC effect 
not covered by the applicable standards, you should consider how to test 
and what VOLUNTARY limits to apply.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html

List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:

 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
 Mike Cantwell   mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:

 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald:   dhe...@gmail.com

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Jim Hulbert]

Tim - true enough, and as Engineers we can't disagree from a technical 
perspective. However, manufacturers are going to test only to what they HAVE to 
test to, i.e. there is a presumption of conformity with the EMC Directive if 
the manufacturer applies those standards published in the OJ that apply to his 
product.  Apparently for EN 55022 that is still the 1 GHz max frequency for 
measurement.  For time-to-market and cost reasons, they stop there.

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering
Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Haynes, Tim 
(SELEX GALILEO, UK)
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 8:30 AM
To: rehel...@mmm.com; Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Ghery, Rob, all

Remember that when you apply a standard you are doing so on the basis
that the standard covers ALL the product EMC characteristics.

IF you design a PC with a 3GHz clock and only apply a standard with a
1GHz limit and then there is a problem with real interference at 3GHz,
the authorities may not believe that due diligence had been applied.

So I would start asking - what does the product do - and then find
standards that may be useful in making your EMC assessment.

Regards
Tim




Tim Haynes A1N10
Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist
SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems
300 Capability Green
Luton LU1 3PG
Tel  : +44 (0)1582 886239
Fax : +44 (0)1582 795863
Mob: +44 (0)7703 559 310
* E-mail : tim.hay...@selexgalileo.com

Please consider the environment before printing this email.
There are 10 types of people in the world-those who understand binary
and those who don't. J. Paxman



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
rehel...@mmm.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:57 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

  *** WARNING ***

This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an
external partner or the Global Internet.
 Keep this in mind if you answer this message.

So if I understand this, there is no testing  required for Europe above
a gigahertz for EN 55022 at this time?

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
=




 "Pettit, Ghery"

 
To
   "rehel...@mmm.com"

 10/30/2008 04:47  

 PM
cc
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"

   


Subject
       RE: Radiated Emission
Measurements
   above 1GHz

















That is correct.  It was quickly withdrawn and reissued without the
limits above 1 GHz.  I'm still waiting for my updated copy from Global,
too.  :-)


From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:54 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Ghery, are you saying that the BS version has the error and was
withdrawn?
If so we were not notified of this action by British Standards. We get
their standards through their subscription service.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===



 Robert E.
 Heller/US-Corpora
 te/3M/US
To
   "Pettit, Ghery"
 10/30/2008 03:45  
 AM
cc
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
           

Subject
   RE: Radiated Emission
Measurements
   above 1GHz(Document link: Robert
E.
   Heller)









So what is the bottom line? Are there or are there not limits for Europe
(EN 55022) above a gig?

I have copies of both BS EN 55022:2006 and BS EN 55022:2006 +A1:2007
Incorporating corrigendum no. 1. Both standards have a section 6.2 and
both standards have limits from 1 to 6 GHz. BS EN 55022:2006 is listed
in the OJ so I assume that it is valid.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252




 "Pettit, Ghery"
 
To
 Sent by:  Jim Hulbert 
 emc-p...@ieee.org "Flavin, John"
   
  

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)]

All,

Sorry I should have said "under the EMC Directive" in relation to my
last e-mail.

Regards
Tim 




Tim Haynes A1N10
Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist
SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems 
300 Capability Green
Luton LU1 3PG

Tel  : +44 (0)1582 886239
Fax : +44 (0)1582 795863
Mob: +44 (0)7703 559 310
* E-mail : tim.hay...@selexgalileo.com
P Please consider the environment before printing this email. 
There are 10 types of people in the world-those who understand binary
and those who don't. J. Paxman

SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems Limited
Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 
3EL
A company registered in England & Wales.  Company no. 02426132

This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
distribute its contents to any other person.


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:

 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
 Mike Cantwell   mcantw...@ieee.org

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 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald:   dhe...@gmail.com

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK)]

Ghery, Rob, all

Remember that when you apply a standard you are doing so on the basis
that the standard covers ALL the product EMC characteristics.

IF you design a PC with a 3GHz clock and only apply a standard with a
1GHz limit and then there is a problem with real interference at 3GHz,
the authorities may not believe that due diligence had been applied.

So I would start asking - what does the product do - and then find
standards that may be useful in making your EMC assessment.

Regards
Tim 




Tim Haynes A1N10
Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist
SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems 
300 Capability Green
Luton LU1 3PG
Tel  : +44 (0)1582 886239
Fax : +44 (0)1582 795863
Mob: +44 (0)7703 559 310
* E-mail : tim.hay...@selexgalileo.com

Please consider the environment before printing this email. 
There are 10 types of people in the world-those who understand binary
and those who don't. J. Paxman



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
rehel...@mmm.com
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:57 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

  *** WARNING ***

This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an
external partner or the Global Internet. 
 Keep this in mind if you answer this message. 

So if I understand this, there is no testing  required for Europe above
a gigahertz for EN 55022 at this time?

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
=


 

 "Pettit, Ghery"

 
To 
   "rehel...@mmm.com"

 10/30/2008 04:47  

 PM
cc 
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"

   

 
Subject 
       RE: Radiated Emission
Measurements  
   above 1GHz

 

 

 

 

 

 





That is correct.  It was quickly withdrawn and reissued without the
limits above 1 GHz.  I'm still waiting for my updated copy from Global,
too.  :-)


From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:54 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Ghery, are you saying that the BS version has the error and was
withdrawn?
If so we were not notified of this action by British Standards. We get
their standards through their subscription service.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===



 Robert E.
 Heller/US-Corpora
 te/3M/US
To
   "Pettit, Ghery"
 10/30/2008 03:45  
 AM
cc
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
       
 
Subject
   RE: Radiated Emission
Measurements
   above 1GHz(Document link: Robert
E.
   Heller)









So what is the bottom line? Are there or are there not limits for Europe
(EN 55022) above a gig?

I have copies of both BS EN 55022:2006 and BS EN 55022:2006 +A1:2007
Incorporating corrigendum no. 1. Both standards have a section 6.2 and
both standards have limits from 1 to 6 GHz. BS EN 55022:2006 is listed
in the OJ so I assume that it is valid.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252




 "Pettit, Ghery"
 
To
 Sent by:  Jim Hulbert 
 emc-p...@ieee.org "Flavin, John"
   
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
 10/29/2008 08:45      
 PM
cc

 
Subject
       RE: Radiated Emission
Measurements
   above 1GHz










You must have an early copy put out by BSI.  They made a mistake and
included Amendment 1 to CISPR 22, Edition 5.0 and withdrew it promptly
when I pointed out their error.  Limits above 1 GHz should not be
included in EN 55022:2006.

Ghery S. Pettit, NCE
Convener, CISPR SC I WG3



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim
Hulbert
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:09 AM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in
the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published
in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Direc

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[reheller]

So if I understand this, there is no testing  required for Europe above a
gigahertz for EN 55022 at this time?

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
=


   
 "Pettit, Ghery"   
 To 
   "rehel...@mmm.com"  
 10/30/2008 04:47
 PM cc 
   "emc-p...@ieee.org" 

   Subject 
       RE: Radiated Emission Measurements  
   above 1GHz  
   
   
   
   
   
   




That is correct.  It was quickly withdrawn and reissued without the limits
above 1 GHz.  I'm still waiting for my updated copy from Global, too.  :-)


From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:54 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Ghery, are you saying that the BS version has the error and was withdrawn?
If so we were not notified of this action by British Standards. We get
their standards through their subscription service.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===



 Robert E.
 Heller/US-Corpora
 te/3M/US   To
   "Pettit, Ghery"
 10/30/2008 03:45  
 AM cc
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
   
       Subject
   RE: Radiated Emission Measurements
   above 1GHz(Document link: Robert E.
   Heller)









So what is the bottom line? Are there or are there not limits for Europe
(EN 55022) above a gig?

I have copies of both BS EN 55022:2006 and BS EN 55022:2006 +A1:2007
Incorporating corrigendum no. 1. Both standards have a section 6.2 and both
standards have limits from 1 to 6 GHz. BS EN 55022:2006 is listed in the OJ
so I assume that it is valid.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252




 "Pettit, Ghery"
 To
 Sent by:  Jim Hulbert 
 emc-p...@ieee.org "Flavin, John"
   
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
 10/29/2008 08:45  
 PM cc

       Subject
   RE: Radiated Emission Measurements
   above 1GHz










You must have an early copy put out by BSI.  They made a mistake and
included Amendment 1 to CISPR 22, Edition 5.0 and withdrew it promptly when
I pointed out their error.  Limits above 1 GHz should not be included in EN
55022:2006.

Ghery S. Pettit, NCE
Convener, CISPR SC I WG3



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Hulbert
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:09 AM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering
Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Pettit, Ghery]

That is correct.  It was quickly withdrawn and reissued without the limits 
above 1 GHz.  I'm still waiting for my updated copy from Global, too.  :-)


From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 1:54 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Ghery, are you saying that the BS version has the error and was withdrawn?
If so we were not notified of this action by British Standards. We get
their standards through their subscription service.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===



 Robert E.
 Heller/US-Corpora
 te/3M/US   To
   "Pettit, Ghery"
 10/30/2008 03:45  
 AM cc
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
   
   Subject
           RE: Radiated Emission Measurements
       above 1GHz(Document link: Robert E.
   Heller)









So what is the bottom line? Are there or are there not limits for Europe
(EN 55022) above a gig?

I have copies of both BS EN 55022:2006 and BS EN 55022:2006 +A1:2007
Incorporating corrigendum no. 1. Both standards have a section 6.2 and both
standards have limits from 1 to 6 GHz. BS EN 55022:2006 is listed in the OJ
so I assume that it is valid.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252




 "Pettit, Ghery"
 To
 Sent by:  Jim Hulbert 
 emc-p...@ieee.org "Flavin, John"
   
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
 10/29/2008 08:45  
 PM cc

       Subject
   RE: Radiated Emission Measurements
   above 1GHz










You must have an early copy put out by BSI.  They made a mistake and
included Amendment 1 to CISPR 22, Edition 5.0 and withdrew it promptly when
I pointed out their error.  Limits above 1 GHz should not be included in EN
55022:2006.

Ghery S. Pettit, NCE
Convener, CISPR SC I WG3



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Hulbert
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:09 AM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering
Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin,
John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz




We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which
show radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR
16-1-4 for the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does
not show any such limits.)


A few questions:
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided?
Has the validation method for the site been decided?
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how does
one test to the limits shown in these two standards?



John D. Flavin
Teradata TCP Engineering
17095 Via del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127
john.fla...@teradata.com
V: (858) 485-3874
F: (213) 337-5432


-



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/


To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org


Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html


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For help, send mail to the list administrators:

Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org


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http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc


-



This m

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Larry Stillings]

just one more comment. The AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 edition does have the limits
published in their version, as I have a copy
 
Larry Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.



From: Flavin, John [mailto:john.fla...@teradata.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz




We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which show
radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR 16-1-4 for
the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does not show any
such limits.)

A few questions: 
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided? 
Has the validation method for the site been decided? 
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how does one
test to the limits shown in these two standards?


John D. Flavin 
Teradata TCP Engineering 
17095 Via del Campo 
San Diego, CA 92127 
john.fla...@teradata.com 
V: (858) 485-3874 
F: (213) 337-5432 

-



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 

To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org 

Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html 

List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators:

Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net
Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org 

For policy questions, send mail to:

Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc 

-



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 

To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org 

Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html 

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:

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Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org 

For policy questions, send mail to:

Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc 

Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<72b8947772cf0948adaa9853631663fb20c833e...@pbi-namsg-02.mgdpbi.global.pv
t>, dated Thu, 30 Oct 2008, Jim Hulbert  writes:


>We likewise were never notified that the BS version was withdrawn, if 
>that is the case.  It's rather disturbing to think that we may be 
>paying money for and following standards that are wrong.

Normally, you would have automatically received the new version, even if 
you did not receive any notification about the error. The error would 
normally also, if your company is a BSI Subscribing Member, have been 
notified in the BSI on-line publication 'Update Standards'.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list.Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/

To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org

Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html

List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:

 Scott Douglas   emcp...@ptcnh.net
 Mike Cantwell   mcantw...@ieee.org

For policy questions, send mail to:

 Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org
 David Heald:   dhe...@gmail.com

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Jim Hulbert]

We likewise were never notified that the BS version was withdrawn, if that is 
the case.  It's rather disturbing to think that we may be paying money for and 
following standards that are wrong.

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering
Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of rehel...@mmm.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:54 AM
To: Pettit, Ghery
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

Ghery, are you saying that the BS version has the error and was withdrawn?
If so we were not notified of this action by British Standards. We get
their standards through their subscription service.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===



 Robert E.
 Heller/US-Corpora
 te/3M/US   To
   "Pettit, Ghery"
 10/30/2008 03:45  
 AM cc
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
   
   Subject
           RE: Radiated Emission Measurements
       above 1GHz(Document link: Robert E.
   Heller)









So what is the bottom line? Are there or are there not limits for Europe
(EN 55022) above a gig?

I have copies of both BS EN 55022:2006 and BS EN 55022:2006 +A1:2007
Incorporating corrigendum no. 1. Both standards have a section 6.2 and both
standards have limits from 1 to 6 GHz. BS EN 55022:2006 is listed in the OJ
so I assume that it is valid.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252




 "Pettit, Ghery"
 To
 Sent by:  Jim Hulbert 
 emc-p...@ieee.org "Flavin, John"
   
   "emc-p...@ieee.org"
 10/29/2008 08:45  
 PM cc

       Subject
   RE: Radiated Emission Measurements
   above 1GHz










You must have an early copy put out by BSI.  They made a mistake and
included Amendment 1 to CISPR 22, Edition 5.0 and withdrew it promptly when
I pointed out their error.  Limits above 1 GHz should not be included in EN
55022:2006.

Ghery S. Pettit, NCE
Convener, CISPR SC I WG3



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Hulbert
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:09 AM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering
Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin,
John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz




We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which
show radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR
16-1-4 for the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does
not show any such limits.)


A few questions:
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided?
Has the validation method for the site been decided?
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how does
one test to the limits shown in these two standards?



John D. Flavin
Teradata TCP Engineering
17095 Via del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127
john.fla...@teradata.com
V: (858) 485-3874
F: (213) 337-5432


-



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/


To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org


Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html


List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html


For help, send mail to the list administrators:

Scot

Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Grace Lin]

BSMI (Taiwan), the publisher for the CNS 13438, is more likely to follow the
VCCI's time frame for the site requirement above 1 GHz.
 
Grace

 
On 10/29/08, Larry Stillings  wrote: 

Currently Australia / New Zealand and VCCI have put a tempory stay on
measuring above 1 GHz until at least the 1 Oct 2009 date. See
 
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_100964
 
http://www.vcci.or.jp/vcci_e/topics/new0910.html
 
however, we are setup to perform these measurements
 
Larry Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.



From: Jim Hulbert [mailto:jim.hulb...@pb.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:09 PM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

 


EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in 
the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

 

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader

TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering

Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484

Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)

Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin, 
John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

 

 

We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of 
which show
radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR 16-1-4 for
the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does not show any
such limits.)

A few questions: 
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided? 
Has the validation method for the site been decided? 
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how 
does one
test to the limits shown in these two standards?

 

John D. Flavin 
Teradata TCP Engineering 
17095 Via del Campo 
San Diego, CA 92127 
john.fla...@teradata.com 
V: (858) 485-3874 
F: (213) 337-5432 

-


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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Enginee

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[reheller]

Ghery, are you saying that the BS version has the error and was withdrawn?
If so we were not notified of this action by British Standards. We get
their standards through their subscription service.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===


   
 Robert E. 
 Heller/US-Corpora 
 te/3M/US   To 
   "Pettit, Ghery" 
 10/30/2008 03:45  
 AM cc 
   "emc-p...@ieee.org" 

   Subject 
           RE: Radiated Emission Measurements  
       above 1GHz(Document link: Robert E. 
   Heller) 
   
   
   
   
   
   



So what is the bottom line? Are there or are there not limits for Europe
(EN 55022) above a gig?

I have copies of both BS EN 55022:2006 and BS EN 55022:2006 +A1:2007
Incorporating corrigendum no. 1. Both standards have a section 6.2 and both
standards have limits from 1 to 6 GHz. BS EN 55022:2006 is listed in the OJ
so I assume that it is valid.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252



   
 "Pettit, Ghery"   
 To 
 Sent by:  Jim Hulbert 
 emc-p...@ieee.org "Flavin, John"  
 
   "emc-p...@ieee.org" 
 10/29/2008 08:45   
 PM cc 
   
   Subject 
   RE: Radiated Emission Measurements  
   above 1GHz  
   
   
   
   
   
   




You must have an early copy put out by BSI.  They made a mistake and
included Amendment 1 to CISPR 22, Edition 5.0 and withdrew it promptly when
I pointed out their error.  Limits above 1 GHz should not be included in EN
55022:2006.

Ghery S. Pettit, NCE
Convener, CISPR SC I WG3



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Hulbert
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:09 AM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering
Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin,
John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz




We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which
show radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR
16-1-4 for the description of 

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[reheller]

So what is the bottom line? Are there or are there not limits for Europe
(EN 55022) above a gig?

I have copies of both BS EN 55022:2006 and BS EN 55022:2006 +A1:2007
Incorporating corrigendum no. 1. Both standards have a section 6.2 and both
standards have limits from 1 to 6 GHz. BS EN 55022:2006 is listed in the OJ
so I assume that it is valid.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252



   
 "Pettit, Ghery"   
 To 
 Sent by:  Jim Hulbert 
 emc-p...@ieee.org "Flavin, John"  
 
   "emc-p...@ieee.org" 
 10/29/2008 08:45   
 PM cc 
   
   Subject 
       RE: Radiated Emission Measurements  
   above 1GHz  
   
   
   
   
   
   




You must have an early copy put out by BSI.  They made a mistake and
included Amendment 1 to CISPR 22, Edition 5.0 and withdrew it promptly when
I pointed out their error.  Limits above 1 GHz should not be included in EN
55022:2006.

Ghery S. Pettit, NCE
Convener, CISPR SC I WG3



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Hulbert
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:09 AM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering
Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin,
John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz




We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which
show radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR
16-1-4 for the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does
not show any such limits.)


A few questions:
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided?
Has the validation method for the site been decided?
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how does
one test to the limits shown in these two standards?



John D. Flavin
Teradata TCP Engineering
17095 Via del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127
john.fla...@teradata.com
V: (858) 485-3874
F: (213) 337-5432


-



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This me

RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Pettit, Ghery]

You must have an early copy put out by BSI.  They made a mistake and included
Amendment 1 to CISPR 22, Edition 5.0 and withdrew it promptly when I pointed
out their error.  Limits above 1 GHz should not be included in EN 55022:2006.

 

Ghery S. Pettit, NCE

Convener, CISPR SC I WG3

 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Jim Hulbert
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:09 AM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

 

EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

 

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader

TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering

Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484

Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)

Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin, John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

 

 

We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which show
radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR 16-1-4 for
the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does not show any
such limits.)

A few questions: 
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided? 
Has the validation method for the site been decided? 
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how does one
test to the limits shown in these two standards?

 

John D. Flavin 
Teradata TCP Engineering 
17095 Via del Campo 
San Diego, CA 92127 
john.fla...@teradata.com 
V: (858) 485-3874 
F: (213) 337-5432 

-


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RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Mark Briggs]

Jim and group,

The British Standards version of EN 55022:2006 does not have a section 6.2 and
only covers radiated emissions 30 - 1000 MHz.  I also have a version obtained
>from Dansk Standards that consisted of a list of modifications to CISPR 22
that was attached to CISPR 22 Edition 5.2 (Edition 5:2005 consolidated with
amendments 1:2005 and 2:2006.  

It is my understanding that EN 55022:2006 is a modified version of CISPR
22:2005 without its amendments (the Official Journal listing shows EN
55022:2006 as CISPR 22:2005 (Modified)). As it is the amendments that contain
the requirements for radiated emissions above 1GHz, EN 55022:2006 does not go
above 1GHz.  

So, my understanding, is that the significant differences between EN
55022:1998 with amendments A1 and A2 and EN 55022:2006 are the removal of the
need for ferrite clamps on cables exiting the test site and the modifications
to the ISN requirements for measuring the conducted emissions on
telecommunications ports.

Regards,

Mark


At 10:08 AM 10/29/2008, Jim Hulbert wrote:


EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in 
the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.
 
Jim Hulbert, Group Leader
TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering
Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484
Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)
Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)
 
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [ mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org 

] On Behalf Of Flavin, John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz
 
 

We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of 
which show
radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR 16-1-4 for
the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does not show any
such limits.)

A few questions: 
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided? 
Has the validation method for the site been decided? 
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how 
does one
test to the limits shown in these two standards?
 

John D. Flavin 
Teradata TCP Engineering 
17095 Via del Campo 
San Diego, CA 92127 
john.fla...@teradata.com 
V: (858) 485-3874 
F: (213) 337-5432 

-



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discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 

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RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Larry Stillings]

Currently Australia / New Zealand and VCCI have put a tempory stay on
measuring above 1 GHz until at least the 1 Oct 2009 date. See
 
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_100964
 
http://www.vcci.or.jp/vcci_e/topics/new0910.html
 
however, we are setup to perform these measurements
 
Larry Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.



From: Jim Hulbert [mailto:jim.hulb...@pb.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:09 PM
To: Flavin, John; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz



EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

 

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader

TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering

Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484

Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)

Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin, John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

 

 

We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which show
radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR 16-1-4 for
the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does not show any
such limits.)

A few questions: 
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided? 
Has the validation method for the site been decided? 
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how does one
test to the limits shown in these two standards?

 

John D. Flavin 
Teradata TCP Engineering 
17095 Via del Campo 
San Diego, CA 92127 
john.fla...@teradata.com 
V: (858) 485-3874 
F: (213) 337-5432 

-


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discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 

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Re: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<72b8947772cf0948adaa9853631663fb20c833e...@pbi-namsg-02.mgdpbi.global.pv
t>, dated Wed, 29 Oct 2008, Jim Hulbert  writes:


>EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in 
>the range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is 
>published in the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as 
>of 1 Oct 2009.

Strictly, the application of ANY standard under either the LVD or the 
EMCD is not compulsory, but it is usually much more difficult and costly 
to demonstrate compliance with the Directive by other means. 
Nevertheless, for some rare products, it is done that way.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it,
or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose!
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Jim Hulbert]

EN 55022:2006 does indeed include the limits for radiated emissions in the
range 1 GHz to 6 GHz.  Look at section 6.2.   This standard is published in
the OJ and becomes compulsory under the EMC Directive as of 1 Oct 2009.

 

Jim Hulbert, Group Leader

TSO Competitive & Compliance Engineering

Pitney Bowes, 35 Waterview Drive, Shelton, CT  06484

Tel: 203-924-3621 (Internal 442-3621)

Fax: 203-924-3352 (Internal 442-3352)

 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin, John
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:20 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

 

 

We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which show
radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR 16-1-4 for
the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does not show any
such limits.)

A few questions: 
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided? 
Has the validation method for the site been decided? 
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how does one
test to the limits shown in these two standards?

 

John D. Flavin 
Teradata TCP Engineering 
17095 Via del Campo 
San Diego, CA 92127 
john.fla...@teradata.com 
V: (858) 485-3874 
F: (213) 337-5432 

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RE: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

[Honkala, Ari (Espoo)]

Hi,

The test site validation is specified in CISPR 16-1-4 2nd Edition from 2007-02.

 

Regards,

Ari Honkala

SGS Fimko Ltd

Finland



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Flavin, John
Sent: 29. lokakuuta 2008 6:20
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Radiated Emission Measurements above 1GHz

 

 

We have copies of AS/NZS CISPR 22:2006 and CNS 13438:2006, both of which show
radiated emission limits in the range 1-6GHz. Both reference CISPR 16-1-4 for
the description of the test site. (Our copy of EN55022:2006 does not show any
such limits.)

A few questions: 
Has the CISPR test site for > 1GHz been decided? 
Has the validation method for the site been decided? 
If the test site or site validation method is still not settled, how does one
test to the limits shown in these two standards?

 

John D. Flavin 
Teradata TCP Engineering 
17095 Via del Campo 
San Diego, CA 92127 
john.fla...@teradata.com 
V: (858) 485-3874 
F: (213) 337-5432 

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