Re: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
In message , dated Thu, 19 Jun 2008, pat.law...@slpower.com writes: >Imagine 2 or 3 young people trying the test, with no results. So they >get a couple of their friends & cell phones, and try again to no avail. >Then they get mom & dad's cell phones, push everything together as >close as possible, and nothing happens. > >They may have a better sense of cell phone radiation than the >fear-mongers! Utter nonsense. As you know very well, any attempt to verify the information distributed by sacred authority is doomed to failure because of the gnoqutic disturbances inherent in the mind-set of the participants who have been pathologically influenced by the evil scientists. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose! John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
In message <005f01c8d22d$98d2c410$4600a8c0@CompaqPresarioD>, dated Thu, 19 Jun 2008, dward writes: >To paraphrase an old adage dealing with those who may actually believe >this video has any credibility what so ever - You can lead a horse to >water but you cannot make him THINK. That isn't the paraphrase that I know, which includes the word 'horticulture'. Horses do think, otherwise they'd never refuse a jump. What they don't do is seek attention by creating mythical dangers. Only anti-sciencists and some religionists do that. It's a unique human trait and is counter-survival (often for everyone except the creators!). -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose! John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
Ed Price wrote on 06/18/2008 06:04:07 PM: > I hate to guess the ratio of viewers of that video who analyzed the > conditions (antenna direction, underlying physics) to those who now > know they have proof that cell phones are more dangerous than ever. It would be interesting to know how many people try to repeat the test. Imagine 2 or 3 young people trying the test, with no results. So they get a couple of their friends & cell phones, and try again to no avail. Then they get mom & dad's cell phones, push everything together as close as possible, and nothing happens. They may have a better sense of cell phone radiation than the fear-mongers! Pat Lawler EMC Engineer SL Power Electronics Corp. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tang, George Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:40 PM To: Reginald Henry; dw...@atcb.com; James, Chris; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety Let’s see….. The popcorn package label says “Pllace bag in a 1000 watt microwave oven. Set power level to HIGH. Cook for 5 minutes……†&nb When you take the popcorn out of the oven, it is HOT and it BURNS your finger to touch the popcorn. If you believe the power through this COLD RESISTOR can cook a popcorn, then I have a Golden GateBridgeto sell you. Of course, what long term side effects cell phone has on the human body (ringing in ear due to one sided hearing, muscle cramps in the arm and neck, poor brain development in young children due to concentration to sound coming from only one ear, hormonal imbalance due to lack of exercise….) is unknown to people. But cooking popcorn with a cell phone radiated power is ridiculous. George My oven does the MIL STD popcorn bag in just a few seconds over 3 minutes. I hate to guess the ratio of viewers of that video who analyzed the conditions (antenna direction, underlying physics) to those who now know they have proof that cell phones are more dangerous than ever. Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer & Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (FAX) Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty
RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
To paraphrase an old adage dealing with those who may actually believe this video has any credibility what so ever - You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him THINK. Dennis Ward Director of Engineering American TCB Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry www.atcb.com 703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 direct - 703-880-4841 NOTICE: This E-Mail message and any attachment may contain privileged or company proprietary information. If you received this message in error, please return to the sender. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate Sent: 06/18/2008 11:11 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety In message <9d04b979323dcd428297dda95108893e0120c...@bb-corp-ex2.corp.cubic.cub>, dated Wed, 18 Jun 2008, "Price, Edward" writes: > >I hate to guess the ratio of viewers of that video who analyzed the >conditions (antenna direction, underlying physics) to those who now >know they have proof that cell phones are more dangerous than ever. > > It doesn't stop there. This was passed on to me. It may come from: http://www.telecompaper.com/news/article.aspx?cid=623982 but that's a subscription-only site. There is also some information in French at: http://www.denisbaupin.fr/?s=Wifi Paris, France The elected municipal officials have called, Monday, June 16, to launch a thorough comparative study of the mechanisms put in place in other countries, cities or institutions in order to reduce the health risks related to exposure of Wi-Fi. Denis Baupin, Green elected deputy mayor of Paris, had expressed his concerns against the program "Paris Wi-Fi" which provides high-speed access for 80% of Parisian buildings by 2010. The facts about Wi-Fi waves raise new concerns Six Parisian libraries have already been the subject of a campaign of measurements of electromagnetic waves, showing that electric fields were 80 to 400 times below the regulatory limit. "The city is aware of concerns and wants to remain vigilant," said Anne Hidalgo, the first deputy mayor of Paris. In November 2007 a moratorium on Wi-Fi in libraries in Paris had been voted by the committee hygiene and safety, and the direction of Cultural Affairs of the City of Paris. The same month, the ministry of ecology and health had ordered a report on radiation, therefore including waves Wi-Fi, report whose publication is scheduled to appear at the end of the year. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose! John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
In message <002301c8d223$e37f05a0$c600a8c0@PC323541548743>, dated Thu, 19 Jun 2008, 'Rich Nute' writes: >Will the report include the emissions of the TV transmitters at the top >of the Eiffel Tower? Unlikely. > >I would guess that radio and TV emissions at almost any location would >exceed those of Wi-Fi. But they are different in some way known only to anti-scientists. It's like their take on the family of 'IIb' elements: Zinc is GOOD; you can buy it in health foods; Cadmium is BAD; it will kill you if you touch it; Mercury is EVIL; it will run after you to kill you. (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose! John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
> Six Parisian libraries have already been the subject of a campaign of > measurements of electromagnetic waves, showing that electric > fields were > 80 to 400 times below the regulatory limit. "The city is aware of > concerns and wants to remain vigilant," said Anne Hidalgo, the first > deputy mayor of Paris. > > In November 2007 a moratorium on Wi-Fi in libraries in Paris had been > voted by the committee hygiene and safety, and the direction > of Cultural > Affairs of the City of Paris. The same month, the ministry of ecology > and health had ordered a report on radiation, therefore > including waves > Wi-Fi, report whose publication is scheduled to appear at the > end of the > year. Will the report include the emissions of the TV transmitters at the top of the Eiffel Tower? I would guess that radio and TV emissions at almost any location would exceed those of Wi-Fi. Richard Nute San Diego - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
Thank you Ed, your second sentence hits the nail right on the head. The ratio is probably much less than 5%, the additional revenue “creamed” by networks is probably the un-guessable – the company who propagated the video should be brought to book and maybe the sale of pop-corn had a slight boost... :-) From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Price, Edward Sent: 19 June 2008 02:04 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tang, George Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:40 PM To: Reginald Henry; dw...@atcb.com; James, Chris; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety Let’s see….. The popcorn package label says “Place bag in a 1000 watt microwave oven. Set power level to HIGH. Cook for 5 minutes……” When you take the popcorn out of the oven, it is HOT and it BURNS your finger to touch the popcorn. If you believe the power through this COLD RESISTOR can cook a popcorn, then I have a Golden Gate Bridge to sell you. Of course, what long term side effects cell phone has on the human body (ringing in ear due to one sided hearing, muscle cramps in the arm and neck, poor brain development in young children due to concentration to sound coming from only one ear, hormonal imbalance due to lack of exercise….) is unknown to people. But cooking popcorn with a cell phone radiated power is ridiculous. George My oven does the MIL STD popcorn bag in just a few seconds over 3 minutes. I hate to guess the ratio of viewers of that video who analyzed the conditions (antenna direction, underlying physics) to those who now know they have proof that cell phones are more dangerous than ever. Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com <mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com> WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer & Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (FAX) Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
In message <9d04b979323dcd428297dda95108893e0120c...@bb-corp-ex2.corp.cubic.cub>, dated Wed, 18 Jun 2008, "Price, Edward" writes: > >I hate to guess the ratio of viewers of that video who analyzed the >conditions (antenna direction, underlying physics) to those who now >know they have proof that cell phones are more dangerous than ever. > > It doesn't stop there. This was passed on to me. It may come from: http://www.telecompaper.com/news/article.aspx?cid=623982 but that's a subscription-only site. There is also some information in French at: http://www.denisbaupin.fr/?s=Wifi Paris, France The elected municipal officials have called, Monday, June 16, to launch a thorough comparative study of the mechanisms put in place in other countries, cities or institutions in order to reduce the health risks related to exposure of Wi-Fi. Denis Baupin, Green elected deputy mayor of Paris, had expressed his concerns against the program "Paris Wi-Fi" which provides high-speed access for 80% of Parisian buildings by 2010. The facts about Wi-Fi waves raise new concerns Six Parisian libraries have already been the subject of a campaign of measurements of electromagnetic waves, showing that electric fields were 80 to 400 times below the regulatory limit. "The city is aware of concerns and wants to remain vigilant," said Anne Hidalgo, the first deputy mayor of Paris. In November 2007 a moratorium on Wi-Fi in libraries in Paris had been voted by the committee hygiene and safety, and the direction of Cultural Affairs of the City of Paris. The same month, the ministry of ecology and health had ordered a report on radiation, therefore including waves Wi-Fi, report whose publication is scheduled to appear at the end of the year. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose! John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tang, George Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:40 PM To: Reginald Henry; dw...@atcb.com; James, Chris; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety Let’s see….. The popcorn package label says “Place bag in a 1000 watt microwave oven. Set power level to HIGH. Cook for 5 minutes……” When you take the popcorn out of the oven, it is HOT and it BURNS your finger to touch the popcorn. If you believe the power through this COLD RESISTOR can cook a popcorn, then I have a Golden Gate Bridge to sell you. Of course, what long term side effects cell phone has on the human body (ringing in ear due to one sided hearing, muscle cramps in the arm and neck, poor brain development in young children due to concentration to sound coming from only one ear, hormonal imbalance due to lack of exercise….) is unknown to people. But cooking popcorn with a cell phone radiated power is ridiculous. George My oven does the MIL STD popcorn bag in just a few seconds over 3 minutes. I hate to guess the ratio of viewers of that video who analyzed the conditions (antenna direction, underlying physics) to those who now know they have proof that cell phones are more dangerous than ever. Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com <mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com> WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer & Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (FAX) Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety
Let’s see….. The popcorn package label says “Place bag in a 1000 watt microwave oven. Set power level to HIGH. Cook for 5 minutes……” When you take the popcorn out of the oven, it is HOT and it BURNS your finger to touch the popcorn. A cell phone battery can last for about 6 hour talk time after one full charge, so the power consumed per second is very low. The power transmitted through the antenna is probably 5 to 7mW. For the law of conservation of energy to work, you will need about 100,000 cell phones all transmitting IN PHASE for this to work. To put this another way, the size of a popcorn is about the same as the size of a ¼ watt through hole resistor (with wire leads). This resistor, through its natural surface heat dissipation, will get hot when you drive 1V, 250mA of power through it. But when you decrease the power down to 10mW (less than 5% of the rated power capacity), the resistor will not even get warm. What I am saying is this – the cell phone antenna radiates power in all directions, so very little arrives at the popcorn, but even if you take the full power (10mW) and drive that through the ¼ W resistor, the component will not even get warm (at 5% capacity) to the touch, as compared to the burning hot popcorn out of the microwave oven. If you believe the power through this COLD RESISTOR can cook a popcorn, then I have a Golden Gate Bridge to sell you. Of course, what long term side effects cell phone has on the human body (ringing in ear due to one sided hearing, muscle cramps in the arm and neck, poor brain development in young children due to concentration to sound coming from only one ear, hormonal imbalance due to lack of exercise….) is unknown to people. But cooking popcorn with a cell phone radiated power is ridiculous. George From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Reginald Henry Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:40 AM To: dw...@atcb.com; James, Chris; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: like your eggs raw /// mobile phone safety When in doubt about email validity, always go to www.snopes.com If you use key search words, you will find that the answer is NO ! Additional video on the site showing... an experiment with one hundred cell phones surrounding an egg... ***Guess what, if you like your egg raw it works. rh From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of dward Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:49 PM To: 'James, Chris'; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: mobile phone safety Here is the relationship of cell phones to popping corn. 1 Place the popcorn in a bowl with butter and salt. 2 Place one two or three cellphones in a plastic bag and place in the same bowl. The plastic bag is to protect the cell phone from the butter. 3 Place the bowl into a microwave oven. 4 Turn microwave oven on high. 5 Run for the hills because you do not want to be anywhere around when the corn start to pop – that should happen just shortly after one or all of the cellphones explode and come flying through the clear glass of the micro wave door. 6 Do not eat the pop corn, even if you can clean it off the walls, as it will probably be contaminated by the hazardous material from the 2002/95/EC non compliant cellphones. Dennis Ward Director of Engineering American TCB Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry www.atcb.com 703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 direct - 703-880-4841 NOTICE: This E-Mail message and any attachment may contain privileged or company proprietary information. If you received this message in error, please return to the sender. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of James, Chris Sent: 06/17/2008 11:06 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: mobile phone safety Anyone care to comment on whether popping pop-corn with mobile (cell) phones is a reality? A number of video clips are appearing on the internet demonstrating it but it could of course be contrived: http://www.koreus.com/video/telephone-portable-mais-popcorn.html http://www.koreus.com/video/telephone-portable-mais-popcorn.html> Chris This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructio
