Re: [Emc-users] Master-Slave stepper set up
At 09:45 PM 5/6/2008, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: I've in the process of building a two axis machine - using the X and Z axis, and I have a three axis stepper/driver combo already set up and basically ready to go. I was wondering if there is some way to configure EMC so that I could slave the Y axis to the X axis. and use two steppers, one on each side of the gantry. There are much better ways to do this. Depending on the motion hardware you have, this slaving can be done in the HAL layer, and once it is set up right, you never need to know there are two motors moving in unison again. The tricky bit is to figure out how to get the two sides of the gantry synchronized so the machine is square and not distorted. The large gantry mills have bearings in the gantry towers so that when the gantry sides are out of sync a little it doesn't stress or break the machine's structure. Homing the axis brings both sides to preset alignment with individual sensors. I'm sure there are ways to do this easily in HAL with a couple AND gates that shuts off steps to the motor that reaches home first, then waits until the second motor gets there before completing the home sequence. This gantry scheme is called a tandem axis. Jon Jon, Thanks for the info. I was doing a little reading on the wiki and in the user doc over the weekend, and missed seeing anything on that. Is there any documentation that I may have glossed over? Mark - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] EMC Fest 2008
The class I outlined is intended for folk a bit like you were a couple years ago. In fact I drew it back further into newbie than that class. My ideal student for these sessions is someone who wants to make parts with EMC rather than someone who wants to make machines that run with EMC. There is certainly a need for work on what I tend to call integration but I wasn't prepared to offer a daily outline of what that might be just yet. Once we open up the machine integration topic we have a range of material from Stepconf for steppers to hand written and edited config file sets that include complex kinematics. Classes would need to include The Language of HAL, The Language of PyVCP, the Language of Conf, and Ladder Language. Formal workshop classes are difficult when self-selected folk who cover a wide range of abilities and prior knowledge are included. This workshop environment makes teaching advanced material much more difficult than it is in a formal school setting. When CNC-Workshop spun off from what we were doing at the NAMES show, I thought it was really important to pre-plan projects for folk to get involved with. The Mazak V-5 was my first and Roland was willing to sacrifice it. In that project I found that folk who already knew how, did the most of the work. It was great learning because we needed to prove to ourselves that EMC2 could run production machines and that we were capable of the code and integration work that make these kinds of machines fully functional. (I'm using we in the sense of all of us on the lists, on IRC, ) These days, with the ability to run big multi-axis machines with non-trivial kinematics well established, I think folk come to the EMC2 with ideas about their own projects. The EMC2 is the only production quality software capable of such a wide range of application. Your recent post about a very precise grinder is an example of someone coming to the software with a machine idea. IMO your biggest problem with that machine is mechanical backlash not software or configuration. Such a machine could easily be set up with any current CNC software package. Roland faced a similar mechanical backlash issue a few years back with his skate grinder. Backlash would have killed most machines for the purpose since it had to be accurate to a few tenths over the length of the skate and some arcs were ground with a radius of more than a meter. He came up with what I thought was an innovative solution. What these kind of projects and folk need is very focused self study with a bit of guidance. IMO an apprentice teaching model is much more effective than is structured coursework once you get beyond a very basic level. That Apprentice/master model is what I'm hearing quite a few of our folk offering. Hope this helps Rayh On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 22:01 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I want to ask about Wednesday -- Hand coded part programs part 1 Is this programming with G code? I think that use G code to program part possible to find in every community college. Help in G code programming is every way. What is impossible to find it is EMC2 inside. Learn how to make special G code for example 555- G555 with special move is much more important. To learn about G code programming do not need to go to EMC2 fest. Unfortunately the are one place to find about inside architect of EMC2 and it is EMC2 fest. I think that need to establish on line school about EMC2 structure and use ENC2 FEST as a culmination point. I am sure that tuition fee should be applied to on line school! Thanks Aram Hi Dale I'll be bringing a few computers that I want/plan to network together into some sort of 8.04-EMC2 lab. My first class at will start at 8:00 am will be a Linux/EMC2 intro. Monday -- Starting EMC2 in the Ubuntu Linux environment. Tuesday-- EMC2 operator interfaces Wednesday -- Hand coded part programs part 1 Thursday -- Hand coded part programs 2 Friday -- Part programming assistants Beyond this I'll plan to be in/around the lab for a couple hours each day when users can sign up for machines and test ideas and seek help. I'm hoping that several others will also offer classes in the lab during the week. Ray On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 19:27 -0700, Dale Ertley wrote: Hello, Will there be any good training for newbies at the EMC Fest 2008? I am new to EMC. I am also in the process of putting a 4+ axis (xyzw+) full size mill on EMC2. Thank you Dale __ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2.
Re: [Emc-users] Master-Slave stepper set up
Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: Thanks for the info. I was doing a little reading on the wiki and in the user doc over the weekend, and missed seeing anything on that. Is there any documentation that I may have glossed over? It likely is NOT documented at the present. I think someone is working on a standard configs file set for this machine config. We have batted this around a bit, I have a fairly clear idea how I would do it if I were building such a machine, but I haven't actually done it. I think all the HAL components you would need already exist. Most likely, just one AND gate for each motor, that passes the step pulses until that motor's home switch trips. Then one and gate to send EMC the home switch signal ONLY when both home switches are tripped. That signal also sets a flip-flop to pass all further step pulses by bypassing the and gates, using a 2-1 multiplexer. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Master-Slave stepper set up
On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 10:57 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: Thanks for the info. I was doing a little reading on the wiki and in the user doc over the weekend, and missed seeing anything on that. Is there any documentation that I may have glossed over? It likely is NOT documented at the present. I think someone is working on a standard configs file set for this machine config. We have batted this around a bit, I have a fairly clear idea how I would do it if I were building such a machine, but I haven't actually done it. I think all the HAL components you would need already exist. Most likely, just one AND gate for each motor, that passes the step pulses until that motor's home switch trips. Then one and gate to send EMC the home switch signal ONLY when both home switches are tripped. That signal also sets a flip-flop to pass all further step pulses by bypassing the and gates, using a 2-1 multiplexer. Jon I wonder. If you don't know the state of the two end carriages, and they might be in a binding condition, it might be necessary to sync the carriages before any substantial move. Could a laser be used to get the carriages synced enough to for a move to a proper sync? -- Kirk Wallace (California, USA http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe, Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now, Zubal lathe conversion pending Craftsman AA 109 restoration Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC) - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 155 ms real-time delay every 10 minutes?
Some of the computers with on-board video handle certain things in BIOS ROM routines, and these can cause upsets to the RT environment on some machines. Sometimes you can turn these things off, or set them to be done by Linux-level software rather than hidden features, by turning down the X-windows acceleration support in the configuration menu. I can easily see how a screensaver could trigger some bit-blt activity that might have side effects. I think this one is well worth pursuing. Well I tried a lot of these things in the past few days (disabling Ethernet in the BIOS, NoAccel for X, etc. etc.) but nothing worked. I've now selected another machine to run the mill and it shows around 10 us jitter with the latency-test. I might do a few more tests with the problematic machine, but don't hold your breath for the solution. Would be interesting to hear if anyone else comes up with this 155ms every 10min. I made a wiki page with results from my two machines here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test would be nice to see what numbers other people get. There seems to be a preference for 'vintage' hardware (P3/P4 or similar), I wonder how much better at RT these are than current hardware? Anders - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a VMC maybe with an ATC. I plan on buying it for the iron and upgrading it to EMC. I have manual machine tools already so I know what to look for when I see a manual machine, but with CNC I really do not know much. What should I look for? Are there any resources on the Internet that show you what to look for when buying a used cnc? How can I determine if the ball screws are good or bad? Servos?... I will use this machine for hobby work and maybe some light production runs. Any help is appreciated WGB - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Ah! Brave soul but on the right track. Having converted a Mazak V5 I have a certain viewpoint. Looking at the emc wiki pages on the conversion of the Mazak at Cardinal Engineering will give a slightly different view. My Mazak was well used and had apparently cut Al all of its life. Backlash on X and Y is in the range of 3 thou. Z is a bit tighter. I think the Galesburg Mazak is somewhat tighter. Mine had a dead 7M control. I think the control on the one at Galesburg still worked but it went away anyway as the intent was to demonstrate conversion of a machine to emc including toolchange. My experience with the Mazak leads me to believe that 1980 servo drives should be replaced with something more modern. On the other hand you probably want to retain the servo motors as they will be well matched to the machine. Encoders/resolvers are another thing to watch although I hear rumors that Jon Elson is doing a resolver to digital conversion board. I removed the resolvers from the servo motors and replaced the Z axis with an encoder and installed encoders on the X and Y ballscrews. If you have the room you might want to consider a horizontal machine rather that a vertical but they tend to be larger. Plan ahead of time for a source of 3 phase; either real or a good converter. Pick Ray Henry's brains and the other people involved in the conversion at Galesburg. If you can make it to fest ( http://www.cnc-workshop.com/ ) this year you can pick the brains of the conversion crew for the Mazak in person. Dave On May 7, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Witek GB wrote: I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a VMC maybe with an ATC. I plan on buying it for the iron and upgrading it to EMC. I have manual machine tools already so I know what to look for when I see a manual machine, but with CNC I really do not know much. What should I look for? Are there any resources on the Internet that show you what to look for when buying a used cnc? How can I determine if the ball screws are good or bad? Servos?... I will use this machine for hobby work and maybe some light production runs. Any help is appreciated WGB -- --- This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http:// java.sun.com/javaone___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] EMC Fest 2008
Hello Ray. It is right there are people with different interest and level. There are two points that I want to make. 1. there are some help such as G code use that is possible to get everyway any 2 years colleges will offer that. Why need spend valuable time of Fest on it? Help with development of EMC2 is impossible to get, and nobody offers - only one time in year and at EMC Fest. 2. I am sure that need establish on line school about EMC2 to learn about EMC2 year long and not a one week a year. Thanks Aram The class I outlined is intended for folk a bit like you were a couple years ago. In fact I drew it back further into newbie than that class. My ideal student for these sessions is someone who wants to make parts with EMC rather than someone who wants to make machines that run with EMC. There is certainly a need for work on what I tend to call integration but I wasn't prepared to offer a daily outline of what that might be just yet. Once we open up the machine integration topic we have a range of material from Stepconf for steppers to hand written and edited config file sets that include complex kinematics. Classes would need to include The Language of HAL, The Language of PyVCP, the Language of Conf, and Ladder Language. Formal workshop classes are difficult when self-selected folk who cover a wide range of abilities and prior knowledge are included. This workshop environment makes teaching advanced material much more difficult than it is in a formal school setting. When CNC-Workshop spun off from what we were doing at the NAMES show, I thought it was really important to pre-plan projects for folk to get involved with. The Mazak V-5 was my first and Roland was willing to sacrifice it. In that project I found that folk who already knew how, did the most of the work. It was great learning because we needed to prove to ourselves that EMC2 could run production machines and that we were capable of the code and integration work that make these kinds of machines fully functional. (I'm using we in the sense of all of us on the lists, on IRC, ) These days, with the ability to run big multi-axis machines with non-trivial kinematics well established, I think folk come to the EMC2 with ideas about their own projects. The EMC2 is the only production quality software capable of such a wide range of application. Your recent post about a very precise grinder is an example of someone coming to the software with a machine idea. IMO your biggest problem with that machine is mechanical backlash not software or configuration. Such a machine could easily be set up with any current CNC software package. Roland faced a similar mechanical backlash issue a few years back with his skate grinder. Backlash would have killed most machines for the purpose since it had to be accurate to a few tenths over the length of the skate and some arcs were ground with a radius of more than a meter. He came up with what I thought was an innovative solution. What these kind of projects and folk need is very focused self study with a bit of guidance. IMO an apprentice teaching model is much more effective than is structured coursework once you get beyond a very basic level. That Apprentice/master model is what I'm hearing quite a few of our folk offering. Hope this helps Rayh On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 22:01 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I want to ask about Wednesday -- Hand coded part programs part 1 Is this programming with G code? I think that use G code to program part possible to find in every community college. Help in G code programming is every way. What is impossible to find it is EMC2 inside. Learn how to make special G code for example 555- G555 with special move is much more important. To learn about G code programming do not need to go to EMC2 fest. Unfortunately the are one place to find about inside architect of EMC2 and it is EMC2 fest. I think that need to establish on line school about EMC2 structure and use ENC2 FEST as a culmination point. I am sure that tuition fee should be applied to on line school! Thanks Aram Hi Dale I'll be bringing a few computers that I want/plan to network together into some sort of 8.04-EMC2 lab. My first class at will start at 8:00 am will be a Linux/EMC2 intro. Monday -- Starting EMC2 in the Ubuntu Linux environment. Tuesday-- EMC2 operator interfaces Wednesday -- Hand coded part programs part 1 Thursday -- Hand coded part programs 2 Friday -- Part programming assistants Beyond this I'll plan to be in/around the lab for a couple hours each day when users can sign up for machines and test ideas and seek help. I'm hoping that several others will also offer classes in the lab during the week. Ray On Mon, 2008-05-05 at 19:27 -0700, Dale Ertley wrote: Hello, Will there be any good training for
Re: [Emc-users] EMC Fest 2008
Sounds like you are saying you want me not to teach this class. On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 19:03 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ray. It is right there are people with different interest and level. There are two points that I want to make. 1.there are some help such as G code use that is possible to get everyway –any 2 years colleges will offer that. Why need spend valuable time of Fest on it? Help with development of EMC2 is impossible to get, and nobody offers - only one time in year and at EMC Fest. 2.I am sure that need establish on line school about EMC2 to learn about EMC2 year long and not a one week a year. Thanks Aram The class I outlined is intended for folk a bit like you were a couple years ago. In fact I drew it back further into newbie than that class. My ideal student for these sessions is someone who wants to make parts with EMC rather than someone who wants to make machines that run with EMC. There is certainly a need for work on what I tend to call integration but I wasn't prepared to offer a daily outline of what that might be just yet. Once we open up the machine integration topic we have a range of material from Stepconf for steppers to hand written and edited config file sets that include complex kinematics. Classes would need to include The Language of HAL, The Language of PyVCP, the Language of Conf, and Ladder Language. Formal workshop classes are difficult when self-selected folk who cover a wide range of abilities and prior knowledge are included. This workshop environment makes teaching advanced material much more difficult than it is in a formal school setting. When CNC-Workshop spun off from what we were doing at the NAMES show, I thought it was really important to pre-plan projects for folk to get involved with. The Mazak V-5 was my first and Roland was willing to sacrifice it. In that project I found that folk who already knew how, did the most of the work. It was great learning because we needed to prove to ourselves that EMC2 could run production machines and that we were capable of the code and integration work that make these kinds of machines fully functional. (I'm using we in the sense of all of us on the lists, on IRC, ) These days, with the ability to run big multi-axis machines with non-trivial kinematics well established, I think folk come to the EMC2 with ideas about their own projects. The EMC2 is the only production quality software capable of such a wide range of application. Your recent post about a very precise grinder is an example of someone coming to the software with a machine idea. IMO your biggest problem with that machine is mechanical backlash not software or configuration. Such a machine could easily be set up with any current CNC software package. Roland faced a similar mechanical backlash issue a few years back with his skate grinder. Backlash would have killed most machines for the purpose since it had to be accurate to a few tenths over the length of the skate and some arcs were ground with a radius of more than a meter. He came up with what I thought was an innovative solution. What these kind of projects and folk need is very focused self study with a bit of guidance. IMO an apprentice teaching model is much more effective than is structured coursework once you get beyond a very basic level. That Apprentice/master model is what I'm hearing quite a few of our folk offering. Hope this helps Rayh On Tue, 2008-05-06 at 22:01 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I want to ask about Wednesday -- Hand coded part programs part 1 Is this programming with G code? I think that use G code to program part possible to find in every community college. Help in G code programming is every way. What is impossible to find it is EMC2 inside. Learn how to make special G code for example 555- G555 with special move is much more important. To learn about G code programming do not need to go to EMC2 fest. Unfortunately the are one place to find about inside architect of EMC2 and it is EMC2 fest. I think that need to establish on line school about EMC2 structure and use ENC2 FEST as a culmination point. I am sure that tuition fee should be applied to on line school! Thanks Aram Hi Dale I'll be bringing a few computers that I want/plan to network together into some sort of 8.04-EMC2 lab. My first class at will start at 8:00 am will be a Linux/EMC2 intro. Monday -- Starting EMC2 in the Ubuntu Linux environment. Tuesday-- EMC2 operator interfaces Wednesday -- Hand coded part programs part 1 Thursday -- Hand coded part programs 2 Friday -- Part programming assistants Beyond this I'll plan to be in/around the lab for a couple hours each day when users can sign up for machines and test ideas and seek
Re: [Emc-users] EMC Fest 2008
Ray Henry wrote: Sounds like you are saying you want me not to teach this class. (off list) Hi Ray: Aram is being Aram. He was at least year's workshop, and he is enough to try anyone's patience. Most of us are just ignoring him. It may seem rude, but we've tried, and there just isn't much else we can do. Please don't let him get to you, and by all means don't let him dissuade you from teaching your classes. I think Aram's real problem is that he is frustrated. At times he seems as dumb as a stump. Other times he seems to be quite smart, but he just doesn't have the knack for integration work. He doesn't read documentation (or he doesn't grasp it), and then he gets frustrated when people can't take his hand and walk him step-by-step through things. Last year he walked around for quite a while with an encoder (or maybe a jogwheel) in his hand, looking for someone to show him how to wire it up. He wound up hooking its 5V supply to 24V and burning it out, and afterwards I swear he still didn't understand why it didn't work. He just doesn't get some things that we consider so fundamental we don't even think about them. I truly think he will never be happy unless someone literally devotes their entire week to helping him (and only him). Maybe he needs to hire someone to do exactly that... but I can assure you it won't be me - I would go insane. Regards, John - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] EMC Fest 2008
John Kasunich wrote: Ray Henry wrote: Sounds like you are saying you want me not to teach this class. (off list) Hi Ray: Damn. Well obviously I don't know how to operate my email client. Sorry John Kasunich - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Master-Slave stepper set up
Kirk Wallace wrote: I wonder. If you don't know the state of the two end carriages, and they might be in a binding condition, it might be necessary to sync the carriages before any substantial move. Could a laser be used to get the carriages synced enough to for a move to a proper sync? Well, in a step-controlled system, they will always move together, so the binding/misalignment would not get any worse than when the step drivers were turned on. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 155 ms real-time delay every 10 minutes?
Kenneth Lerman wrote:
The suggestion was made that arp or some other ethernet related protocol
might run every ten seconds. Disabling ethernet in the bios might be
*causing* the problem if all of the protocols are not disabled in software.
I sure don't know what would happen if something is trying to use the
ethernet and there was no hardware there.
(That's probably not the problem, but it can't hurt to suggest looking at
it.) :-{
I have a Dell desktop box here that is in a location where I
share ethernet jacks. I know that you just about can't log
in and get X running without the ethernet being connected.
After 10+ minutes, it finally gets running and appears OK.
(At one time I knew how to disable this, but now I've forgotten.
Certainly shutting down one of the network daemons. But, before
it gives up, the system is insanely slow, it literally takes
10+minutes for the login stuff for X to complete.
I don't think this affects the RT system, though.
Jon
-
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Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Witek GB wrote: I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a VMC maybe with an ATC. I plan on buying it for the iron and upgrading it to EMC. I have manual machine tools already so I know what to look for when I see a manual machine, but with CNC I really do not know much. What should I look for? Are there any resources on the Internet that show you what to look for when buying a used cnc? How can I determine if the ball screws are good or bad? Servos?... I will use this machine for hobby work and maybe some light production runs. Any help is appreciated Servo motors are pretty tough. Really old encoders had light bulbs in them. They can be retrofitted with infrared LEDs. Many older machines had resolvers instead of encoders. (I'm working on a lower-cost retrofit for those, but it may still be cheaper to install US Digital encoders where they will fit.) Ball screws are fairly hard to evaluate in the field. You can put a dial indicator on the table and see how far you can turn the screw by hand to check backlash. The general condition of the machine can be a useful guide. If every nook and cranny is stuffed with chips, and layers of brown sludge coats everything, you know the machine was run hard in heavy production. That will take its toll. As for the ATC, the simpler it is, the easier it will be to get EMC to control it. If it is a massively complicated hydraulic monster with several changer arms, lots of position sensors, etc. then it will be more complicated. Ray Henry did manage to get the Mazak working at Roland's shop. That is a pretty complex ATC. Remember that the tooling is a major expense on these machines, a rack of NMTB 40 holders and collets is worth a LOT more than most older machines. Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
On May 7, 2008, at 7:24 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Witek GB wrote: I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a VMC maybe with an ATC. I plan on buying it for the iron and upgrading it to EMC. I have manual machine tools already so I know what to look for when I see a manual machine, but with CNC I really do not know much. What should I look for? Are there any resources on the Internet that show you what to look for when buying a used cnc? How can I determine if the ball screws are good or bad? Servos?... I will use this machine for hobby work and maybe some light production runs. Any help is appreciated Servo motors are pretty tough. Really old encoders had light bulbs in them. They can be retrofitted with infrared LEDs. Many older machines had resolvers instead of encoders. (I'm working on a lower-cost retrofit for those, but it may still be cheaper to install US Digital encoders where they will fit.) I happen to like the Koyo's from Automation Direct but a lot of people use the USD's. Ball screws are fairly hard to evaluate in the field. You can put a dial indicator on the table and see how far you can turn the screw by hand to check backlash. The real problem comes when the ball screws are inaccessible. The general condition of the machine can be a useful guide. If every nook and cranny is stuffed with chips, and layers of brown sludge coats everything, you know the machine was run hard in heavy production. That will take its toll. Gee, that describes my Mazak. Aluminum chips everywhere. If I had been thinking I would have had it steam cleaned before I got it into the shop. As for the ATC, the simpler it is, the easier it will be to get EMC to control it. If it is a massively complicated hydraulic monster with several changer arms, lots of position sensors, etc. then it will be more complicated. Ray Henry did manage to get the Mazak working at Roland's shop. That is a pretty complex ATC. Remember that the tooling is a major expense on these machines, a rack of NMTB 40 holders and collets is worth a LOT more than most older machines. I didn't (don't) know any better so I consider the Mazak ATC as pretty standard in complexity. Some of those on the horizontals must be simpler since they change tools in 2 sec or so. Indeed there is a major investment in 40 of 50 taper toolholders; which is a reason to acquire machines with one type of holder. Most of the machines will have CAT40 toolholders but of course you will see some CAT50's and a few NMTB's. BTW -- Witek GB where are you? Jon -- --- This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http:// java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] NMTB 40 holders, Was: Re: Buying used CNC machine - what to look for??
Hello, Jon Elson wrote: Remember that the tooling is a major expense on these machines, a rack of NMTB 40 holders and collets is worth a LOT more than most older machines. NTMB 40 for cnc? I thought these were manual-only holders. I have'nt heard of them being used for cnc use. Can you elaborate please? Thanks. Robert W. - This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. Use priority code J8TL2D2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
