Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Frank Tkalcevic]

Do you think the other mob are in danger of being lawyered by a company that
makes razors?


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Karl Cunningham]

On 01/17/2012 07:31 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
> IMHO, we need to keep references to EMC and EMC2 on the web site as
> 'historical artifacts', and also reference the NIST project that
> started the initial 'Enhanced Machine Controller' project and named
> it. Like in http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/emc_links.html
>
> It will also allow links from around the internet and search engines
> to still logically link back to LinuxCNC in the future.

I think it important that the names of web pages stay the same even if 
the names include emc, or at least put in redirects from the old page 
names. Otherwise links in past emails will break. Even if links in the 
email archives are changed, it won't change people's local email stores.

Karl

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Geoff]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:16:13 pm Chris Radek wrote:
> In the spring of 2011, the LinuxCNC Board of Directors was contacted
> by a law firm representing EMC Corporation (www.emc.com) about the use
> of "EMC" and "EMC2" to identify the software offered on linuxcnc.org.
> EMC Corporation has registered various trademarks relating to EMC and
> EMC^2 (EMC with superscripted numeral two).
>
> After a number of conversations with the representative of EMC
> Corporation, the final result is that, starting with the next major
> release of the software, linuxcnc.org will stop identifying the
> software using "emc" or "EMC", or those terms followed by digits.  To
> the extent that the LinuxCNC Board of Directors controls the names
> used to identify the software offered on linuxcnc.org, the board has
> agreed to this.
>

This could get interesting. I just did a company search for companies named 
EMC here in Australia. There are 3 named EMC or a variation of that. There 
are 108 entries containing the word EMC. I;'d love to see results from Europe 
and Japan et al.

Cheers, Geoff.

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 01/17/2012 08:12 PM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 17.01.12 21:31, Jack Coats wrote:
>> IMHO, we need to keep references to EMC and EMC2 on the web site as
>> 'historical artifacts', and also reference the NIST project that
>> started the initial 'Enhanced Machine Controller' project and named
>> it. Like in http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/emc_links.html
>>
>> It will also allow links from around the internet and search engines
>> to still logically link back to LinuxCNC in the future.
>>
>> I doubt EMC Corp would have issue with that, since it is for
>> 'educational and historical' purposes.
>
> 
> It seems unimaginable that even under perverse American law, one
> corporation can own all rights to every use of an abbreviation.
> In most countries, it is sufficient for the activities of the separate
> users to be significantly distinguishable for courts to dismiss a
> litigant's claim to be the only one on the planet with the name "Bob".
>
> If our current full name conflicted, then there would be grounds for
> discussion, but coincidence of abbreviation (EMC) is no ground for
> complaint. And both parties have adapted Albert's little equation, so
> neither can claim originality or exclusivity there.
>
> That said, the board's decision is the board's to make, and it avoids
> distractions other than whether or not to make any changes in the wiki.
> If we place on the home page "LinuxCNC was historically known as EMC2",
> then the job's done, innit?
> 
>
> As always, genuine thanks for all the work done on our behalf.
>
> Erik
>

I join this opinion based on the facts that this (EMC2) project has a 
long history under its current name. It's ridiculous to see a not 
exceptionally successful company (http://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=EMC) 
terrorize nonprofit organization especially when the product has 
absolutely nothing to do with their core business.

My feeling is that their lawyers have nothing else to do, like protect 
employees of their spinoff VMware etc.

Quick search for EMC2 on Google brings LinuxCNC.org in the third place. 
That's due to the fact that EMC Corp is advertising on the top.

Google also delivers other links that one would expect to be more 
"offensive" to EMC Corp lawyers than LinuxCNC open source product.

http://www.emc2.com/
http://www.emc2fusion.org/
http://emc-squared.net/
http://www.aimprogram.com/
http://www.emc-sq.com
http://www.emc2architects.com/
http://www.emctwo.com/
http://www.emcsquared.com/
http://www.emc2acne.com/
http://www.emc2interiors.com/
http://emc2payouts.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/EMC2/174903925885899?v=info

Other (Google) Searches related to emc2:
emc2 cnc software
linux emc2
e=mc2
emc2 wiki
emc2 engineering
emc2 fusion
emc2 architects
emc2 bikes

so EMC2 CNC software comes up twice in this section alone. Fact: search 
for "emc2" returns more links related to LinuxCNC EMC2 on the first 3 
pages than EMC company.

I respect LinuxCNC board decision but wonder about EMC legal department. 
My guess is that generic search for their products turns up little or 
nothing and they want more "free advertising".

http://www.emc.com/about/investor-relations/faqs.htm
Q: What does "EMC" stand for?
A: The founders of EMC are Richard Egan and Roger Marino, the "E" and 
"M" behind the naming of EMC. "EMC Corporation" is the Company's full name.

So they were sitting on the fact, and did nothing, all these years that 
a nonprofit org openly used EMC2 (Enhanced Machine Controller 2) for the 
project name. There is statue of limitation somewhere, even in the US 
law one would think. Perhaps they need some http://www.emcpic.info

Imagine how many links are going to be broken if LinuxCNC wiki page 
changes every instance of EMC2? That's censorship IMO and I'm against it.

-- 
Rafael

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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:25:34 AM Greg Bernard did opine:

> Gene-
> When you say the pin asssingments are incorrect are you referring to the
> schematic symbol or the footprint? Quite often the locations of pins on
> the schematic do not match the physical locations on the component. I
> assume this is done for convenience in drawing the schematic. What
> matters is if the pin numbers are correct. The footprint of the
> component that appears in the brd drawing is where you need to look for
> correct location of pins. I'm  only about a half-dozen circuits into
> learning Eagle and I can tell you that a lot of the counter-intuitive
> details will soon make sense. When I first started with Eagle I ran
> away from it and tried a couple of the alternatives but found them no
> easier. The great thing about Eagle is it's nearly universal in the
> hobbyist world which makes it easy to use OP's circuits and libraries.
> By the way, another source of useful libraries are the Sparkfun and
> Adafruit websites. These are smaller libraries more attuned to the
> components we are likely to use and can save a lot of searching through
> the vast and confusing library that comes with Eagle.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> -Greg
> 
Well, the only marks on the package show on top of it and they are 
confusing.  On about a 20x blowup of the pdf'd brochures page showing the 
pin names, it looks like this for a bottom view.

led end   sensor end
|---|
| K .  .vcc |
|   0.vo0   |
| A .  .gnd |
|---|

And the footprint in the library has both + terminals on the same side.  

And its this ambiguity in the docs on this stuff that cost me the last 3 of 
a different type device about 18 months go when I was gung ho to do this 
then, and it all smoked in about 10 milliseconds when I applied 5 volts.

The markings on the tops of the towers are of zero utility other than being 
marked with a + sign on opposite corners, and I presume the 3 or E on one 
end is the emitter end, and the 5 or S on the other towers top means 
sensor, it has 3 leads out the bottom at least.  And that also corresponds 
with the rest of the outline drawings supplied with the HoneyWell HAO2001 
slot sensor.

Cheers, Gene
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My web page: 
In most instances, all an argument proves is that two people are present.

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Re: [Emc-users] steppers

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:16:45 AM cogoman did opine:

> > Could you give me some idea of what the advantage is of using 2 and 3
> > 
> > >  stack steppers?
> 
>Perhaps I'm in over my head here, but I'll share what I think I
> know.  The tendency for 2 to 3 stack steppers is for the magnetic
> circuit inside to get too long, and create high inductance for the
> amount of field strength it produces.  This limits the top speed of the
> stepper (the assumption here is standard 200 steps per rev steppers).
> There's a point where stepping up to a NEMA34 from a NEMA23 will get the
> torque needed with less inductance, which allows for more speed.
>This, is more theoretical than practical, since it is quite possible
> to design a slow stepper in both NEMA23 and NEMA34 sizes, and many do
> just that.  While a fast stepper motor needs to have less than 3 mH
> inductance per coil, I have seen even small steppers with over 10 mH.
> 
> Rexstep stepper motors
>  owse&category_id=1&Itemid=1> and usa stepper motors
>  seem to have low
> inductance per torque, assuming you can trust their specs.
> 
> This one
>  />, and this one
>  /> seem to have too much inductance for fast operation.

Probably one of the reasons Marlin has those at what looks like a decent 
price.  TANSTAAFL applies.

> So practically
> speaking, you need to evaluate each motor separately.

That takes some knowledge of the motors else you don't really know what is 
important for a given job.  Frankly I am not beyond that stage myself.

Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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My web page: 
She always believed in the old adage -- leave them while you're looking 
good.
-- Anita Loos, "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes"

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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 18, 2012 12:05:26 AM Erik Christiansen did opine:

> On 17.01.12 20:30, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 17, 2012 07:15:33 PM Fox Mulder did opine:
> > > Am 17.01.2012 21:47, schrieb gene heskett:
> > > > Checking requirements, I see that libpng14.so.14 is required so
> > > > you helped me build a script: gene@shop:/opt/eagle-6.1.0$ cat
> > > > bin/eagle LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$(dirname "$0")" "$(dirname
> > > > "$0")/eagle.orig" $@
> 
> That's a good way to do it if you want to keep the .so with eagle.
> Another way is to drop a copy of it into /lib, and then run ldconfig,
> to update the cache for ld.so, so it can find it without further ado.

I did consider that, but thought better of it.

> A third way is to leave the .so in its current odd spot, and just add
> the path to /etc/ld.so.conf before running ldconfig.

I also considered that.
 
> > > > It doesn't complain about a missing library so I assume that is
> > > > working, but for a universal launcher, should I not have a
> > > > /usr/bin bash script that first does a cd to /opt/eagle-6.1.0/ in
> > > > order to setup the pwd, and then do a 'bin/eagle'?  In any event,
> > > > it seems to work.
> 
> Then it's fine. Setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH is an entirely acceptable way to
> get by, even if it can be done without a script. Those GUI configs you
> did (Options -> Directories?) allow eagle to find your projects, so
> there's no need for a cd.

Installing it on the system brings up the backward compat question.  This 
way isolates it, which is likely the more stable solution. 

> > Ah, now I see a totally different selection window. I left click on
> > the + sign of library you sent, and see the devices name.  Now I have
> > managed to get 3 copies of it planted on the schematic,
> 
> If that's via the "Add" icon on the schematic editor, then you're
> cooking.

Correct!
 
> > & a few wires drawn, at which point I note that pin assignments on the
> > device aren't exactly correct, and to match the device itself, I'll
> > have to swap one end of it or the other around as the GND's are on the
> > diagonal corners.  I'll need to think on which I swap that around as I
> > assume the xml part description in the library is where to fix it.
> 
> If the part is OK, but for the pinout, the easiest fix is to create a
> variant of the existing part, if you want to keep the original pinout as
> well. To avoid loss when updating the supplied libraries, and to keep
> customised stuff handy, it is good to copy the part over to your own
> library, and edit that, I think.

That's probably the best way to fix.  OTOH, I don't have a lot of time 
plonking down 3 copies of the thing, so if I toss it & start again, it is 
part of the learning process.  And one learns best by doing, reading isn't 
always the panacea the teachers claim it is.
 
> > Apparently not, the schematic doesn't change with the current contents
> > of the library.  Throw it out & start over.
> 
> Nope, to update the library info used in an open schematic editor, hit
> Library->Update and select the modified library, or just use
> Library->Update_All.
> 
> > Probably tomorrow after I read for a couple hours.
> 
> Yeah. And they claim GUIs are intuitive.
> 
Not so much at times. 
> ...
> 
> > > > But in eagle, I have yet to find that command line box talked
> > > > about in the tuts so I can't run the setup utility it talks about
> > > > in its install.html.
> 
> Any of eagle's commands can be run in that white strip at the top of the
> schematic editor's drawing area. There's a blinking cursor, inviting
> input.
 
That's IF you can get to the schematic editor.  That was my problem.

> > If I fix the library, will that fix the schematic when it is next
> > loaded?
> 
> If the library has changed, then eagle usually warns on next startup,
> that schematic and/or board may be affected, and makes you click to
> confirm, IIRC.
> 
> A Library->Update after editing the part naturally avoids such
> surprises.
> 
> Erik

Thanks Erik.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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My web page: 
QOTD:
Money isn't everything, but at least it keeps the kids in touch.

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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:34:41 PM Ed Nisley did opine:

> On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 20:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > If I fix the library,
> > will that fix the schematic when it is next loaded?
> 
> Nope, the schematic holds copies of all the components, so that you
> can't inadvertently wreck all your circuits with a single library
> change.
> 
> You must delete all instances of the old part from the schematic,
> refresh the library to get the new part, and then re-place all of them.
> 
> It's a pain, but it does make a certain kind of sense.
 
Yes, I have to agree.

> > those manuals were in my mailbox this evening.
> 
> Excellent! Now, keep telling the occasional war story...

Alright, how about this one?

Nearly 20 years ago, the transmitter took to throwing some black streaks in 
the picture, quite intermittently at first but gradually, over a period of 
6 months or so it got to the "we can't ignore it any longer" stage.  My 
operators had identified a spot on the front of the driver cubicle where 
they could occasionally whack with a foot or so of 2x4 & get it to stop, 
for a little while.  I took stuff apart, one stage and one night at a time 
looking for bad solder joints, re-soldered anything that even remotely 
looked guilty without bothering it a bit.  I finally did a no-no and 
removed a back window in the cubicle door, waited for it to get started, 
and took an electric fence fiberglass rod and started poking at anything I 
could touch from the windows access angle.

The driver cabinets 3rd of 4 stages was a pair of 4-1000's running push-
pull, driven by an 829-B also working push-pull that for bandwidth purposes 
has a swamping resistor network to load the circuit slightly, connected 
from one 4-1000's grid #1 to the other tubes grid, and all hidden in plain 
sight in a perforated box on the side of the cavity which seemed to be the 
most sensitive place to prod.  Checking the parts lists I saw they were 
fairly fancy 20 and 50 watt carbon film resistors, painted on ceramic tubes 
about 1/2 and 5/8" in diameter.  And hell to get to, lots of other power 
and rf plumbing in the way.  829-B's being about a 15 to 20 watt output 
tube, it had taken a few of them used up and 40 years to damaged those 
resistors.

Finally getting the cover clear, I found them mounted in big fuse clips, so 
I pried them out & put one in each pocket & headed for the bench where I 
had some higher powered test gear.  Even after all those years, the values 
were still visible and in fact neither one of them ever looked like they 
had been hot.  Grabbing an ohmmeter I checked from the lead sleeve to lead 
sleeve used as an end ferrule to a thin ring of gold plate that ran from 
under the sleeve to under the coating, which looked like bare, baked in 
place carbon, but which was apparently an insulation coating.  One of them 
was within 10% of the painted on value but the other measured anything from 
2 or 3 hundred percent higher all the way to open..  Bingo.  We had one of 
those old electric eye bridge indicating capacitor checkers, so I hooked 
its 0-600 volt leakage test probes up and the eye went nuts at 20 volts.  I 
turned off the lights and when my eyes became dark adjusted, I could see a 
faint arcing leaking thru the coating about 1/8" under that coating from 
the gold plated end band.

I came home to get one of my dremels with a couple of those grey rubber 
abrasive wheels and spent about 4 hours polishing that coating away all the 
way around that end of the resistor until I had continuity from the far end 
ferrule to the carbon film all the way around.  Then I painted about 3 
layers of nickle print on that area to reconnect the ferrule to the carbon 
film under the coating & let it dry for a while.  Then the resistance was 
within 10% of what was painted on it, so I carefully reinstalled it and got 
it on the air about 9 AM, lng night.  I put the window back in the next 
Friday night, my normal night to kick its tires.

Why didn't I just order new copies of one or both?  Real simple, the 
machinery that made those resistors at IRC was thrown in a ditch in FL in 
about 1970, a good many years before I called to check.  So they were 
rather effectively made out of our favorite material, pure unobtainium.  

You do what you have to do when its your responsibility to do so.  Any 
other Chief Engineer on this side of the planet would have told the owner 
the only cure was a new, $150k transmitter.

But I fix things.  It was still working ALMOST normally when we turned it 
off for the last time June 30, 2008.  The reason I say almost was that the 
last batch of 4 new 4-1000's tubes I had bought, came from an air force 
base in germany that had declared them surplus in 1996, new ones had been 
discontinued by Eimac 10+ years before that.  AFAIK, those were the last 4 
NOS tubes on the planet.  So I put in some powerstats so I could turn the 
heaters down about 20% when they were fresh & made those last 

Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Jack Coats]

I wonder when EMC, Inc was incorporated and initially copywrited EMC
and EMC^2 (superscript that is).

... I need to get over it and just go along, but I hate feeling like
we are being muscled out by the force of money/clout.
... That is probably my hangup.  I'd feel much better if EMC would
offer at least some money to advertise the
name migration on their nickle, and possibly a donation to the CNC
cause... even if it wound up being getting
appropriate equipment in lots of schools (like high-school tech
shops).  ... Like I said, that's probably just my thing.

If I would have been active enough, I would have been on the board,
and it is really just their vote that mattered on this.

... now ... on to the future.

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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[Greg Bernard]

Gene-
When you say the pin asssingments are incorrect are you referring to the 
schematic symbol or the footprint? Quite often the locations of pins on the 
schematic do not match the physical locations on the component. I assume this 
is done for convenience in drawing the schematic. What matters is if the pin 
numbers are correct. The footprint of the component that appears in the brd 
drawing is where you need to look for correct location of pins. I'm  only about 
a half-dozen circuits into learning Eagle and I can tell you that a lot of the 
counter-intuitive details will soon make sense. When I first started with Eagle 
I ran away from it and tried a couple of the alternatives but found them no 
easier. The great thing about Eagle is it's nearly universal in the hobbyist 
world which makes it easy to use OP's circuits and libraries. By the way, 
another source of useful libraries are the Sparkfun and Adafruit websites. 
These are smaller libraries more attuned to
 the components we are likely to use and can save a lot of searching through 
the vast and confusing library that comes with Eagle.

Good luck!

-Greg




>
> From: gene heskett 
>To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 7:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)
> 
>On Tuesday, January 17, 2012 07:15:33 PM Fox Mulder did opine:
>
>> Am 17.01.2012 21:47, schrieb gene heskett:
>> > Greets all;
>> > 
>> > Going thru the docs for eagle, in this case following the
>> > tutorial_en.pdf, resetting the directories to where they exist on
>> > that machine seems to stick over an exit and restart.  Checking
>> > requirements, I see that libpng14.so.14 is required so you helped me
>> > build a script:
>> > gene@shop:/opt/eagle-6.1.0$ cat bin/eagle
>> > LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$(dirname "$0")" "$(dirname "$0")/eagle.orig" $@
>> > 
>> > It doesn't complain about a missing library so I assume that is
>> > working, but for a universal launcher, should I not have a /usr/bin
>> > bash script that first does a cd to /opt/eagle-6.1.0/ in order to
>> > setup the pwd, and then do a 'bin/eagle'?  In any event, it seems to
>> > work.
>> > 
>> > I have eagle open and showing my project(empty of course) highlighted
>> > with a green indicator button dot in the left pane of the window.
>> > 
>> > Reading along in the tut and seeing a few things as I go along in its
>> > description, I get to pages 12-13-14 where it says
>> > 
>> >  'Option->Menu etc' or Options/Set, Color tab,
>> > 
>> > But when I open the option menu, I only have 4 items:
>> > 
>> > Directories
>> > Backup
>> > User Interface
>> > Window positions
>> 
>> These settings are only available when you are in the schematic or board
>> window, not main window.
>> 
>> > I've been thru the user interface panel & changed a few things, like
>> > inverting the foreground/background colors used, but with no effects
>> > seen.
>> 
>> These settings only apply for the schematics and board window, not main
>> window.
>> 
>> > The settings do seem to stick over a quit & restart ok.
>> > 
>> > I don't seem to be able to create an empty schematic page, only ever
>> > deeper directories named for the page.sch I want.  This under the
>> > 'file' menu.
>> 
>> Normally you just have to click file->new->schematic to create an empty
>> schematic window. You can also right click on the selected project
>> folder (green dot at the right of it) and select new->schematic to
>> start.
>
>Did that, worked, thanks Fox.
>
>> > I can open the libraries and select the device, which then opens in
>> > its own window showing it both schematically and a footprint outline
>> > but despite reading how to select and use the device, I have no
>> > 'schematic' window to copy it into, so none of those commands do
>> > anything, not even blinking the screen to indicate an error.  The
>> > claim is made that a device should be hanging from the cursor when
>> > selected, but its never happened.  It is also single threaded making
>> > it impossible to do a drag & drop because as long as the library
>> > window is open, all others appear to be unfocusable, greyed out.  I
>> > get the impression that when I am looking at the selected device in
>> > the library's window, that I am actually looking at the device in its
>> > editor window, presumably not the select and use window.  And no clue
>> > how to get there except I have now gotten there probably 20 times by
>> > opening the library, then opening the library in that window and
>> > clicking on the now visible devices name which appears to open an
>> > editor to edit the device.
>> > 
>> > Do I have a defective install?  or am I just too damned dumb??
>> 
>> This is the wrong way of working with eagle. When you open a library
>> than only if you want to create/edit/delete parts in the library. For
>> using it you go through the schematic/board window and use the "ADD"
>> function which uses these libraries.
>
>Ah, now I see a tota

Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Erik Christiansen]

On 17.01.12 21:31, Jack Coats wrote:
> IMHO, we need to keep references to EMC and EMC2 on the web site as
> 'historical artifacts', and also reference the NIST project that
> started the initial 'Enhanced Machine Controller' project and named
> it. Like in http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/emc_links.html
> 
> It will also allow links from around the internet and search engines
> to still logically link back to LinuxCNC in the future.
> 
> I doubt EMC Corp would have issue with that, since it is for
> 'educational and historical' purposes.


It seems unimaginable that even under perverse American law, one
corporation can own all rights to every use of an abbreviation.
In most countries, it is sufficient for the activities of the separate
users to be significantly distinguishable for courts to dismiss a
litigant's claim to be the only one on the planet with the name "Bob".

If our current full name conflicted, then there would be grounds for
discussion, but coincidence of abbreviation (EMC) is no ground for
complaint. And both parties have adapted Albert's little equation, so
neither can claim originality or exclusivity there.

That said, the board's decision is the board's to make, and it avoids
distractions other than whether or not to make any changes in the wiki.
If we place on the home page "LinuxCNC was historically known as EMC2",
then the job's done, innit?


As always, genuine thanks for all the work done on our behalf.

Erik

-- 
lawsuit, n.:
   A machine which you go into as a pig and come out as a sausage.
   - Ambrose Bierce


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Kent A. Reed]

On 1/17/2012 10:31 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
> IMHO, we need to keep references to EMC and EMC2 on the web site as
> 'historical artifacts', and also reference the NIST project that
> started the initial 'Enhanced Machine Controller' project and named
> it. Like in http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/emc_links.html
>
> It will also allow links from around the internet and search engines
> to still logically link back to LinuxCNC in the future.
>
> I doubt EMC Corp would have issue with that, since it is for
> 'educational and historical' purposes.
>
> Just some thoughts.
> ...
>
Seems natural enough to do, Jack. As Chris said in his announcement this 
transition occurs with V2.5.0. Just now on the EMC Developers mail list 
I suggested we should give notice right on the home page (which you may 
note has already been changed) that this rebranding is occurring as of a 
specific date and version.

The Wayback Machine will preserve the past even if we don't, but we 
don't have to deny our past. We should celebrate it for what it was and 
move on.

Regards,
Kent




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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Jack Coats]

IMHO, we need to keep references to EMC and EMC2 on the web site as
'historical artifacts', and also reference the NIST project that
started the initial 'Enhanced Machine Controller' project and named
it. Like in http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/emc_links.html

It will also allow links from around the internet and search engines
to still logically link back to LinuxCNC in the future.

I doubt EMC Corp would have issue with that, since it is for
'educational and historical' purposes.

Just some thoughts.
...

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Kent A. Reed]

On 1/17/2012 10:20 PM, Jeff Epler wrote:
> We have registered new IRC channels on freenode that reflect the new
> project name.  Please join us on #linuxcnc or #linuxcnc-devel.  For the
> time being, users joining the old channels will be forwarded, but this
> may not be possible indefinitely.
>
> Jeff
>

And these two email lists?

Regards,
Kent


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Jeff Epler]

We have registered new IRC channels on freenode that reflect the new
project name.  Please join us on #linuxcnc or #linuxcnc-devel.  For the
time being, users joining the old channels will be forwarded, but this
may not be possible indefinitely.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Jon Elson]

Chris Radek wrote:
> In the spring of 2011, the LinuxCNC Board of Directors was contacted
> by a law firm representing EMC Corporation (www.emc.com) about the use
> of "EMC" and "EMC2" to identify the software offered on linuxcnc.org.
> EMC Corporation has registered various trademarks relating to EMC and
> EMC^2 (EMC with superscripted numeral two).
>
>   
Who knows if EMC will still exist by the time we finish this conversion?
(Just that there is so much corporate merging going on.)

The only downside is the confusion factor, there are thousands of people who
have heard of our EMC2 as another CNC control program, and now will not
know what happened to it.  For instance, there is an EMC forum on CNCZone.
I suppose that needs to be renamed, too.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[Erik Christiansen]

On 17.01.12 21:30, Ed Nisley wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 20:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > If I fix the library, 
> > will that fix the schematic when it is next loaded?
> 
> Nope, the schematic holds copies of all the components, so that you
> can't inadvertently wreck all your circuits with a single library
> change.
> 
> You must delete all instances of the old part from the schematic,
> refresh the library to get the new part, and then re-place all of them.

Never say never (or must)? When a modified library is used, I've found
that eagle warns that board & schematic may be affected. It then
requires a confirming click, before sailing on. It's then up to me to
have a look at both, to see if the modified parts have had any
noticeable effect.

If the change is drastic, it's sometimes necessary to tweak the board,
to accommodate a package correction. I don't recall ever having to
delete a component due to a library change.

Erik

-- 
Any project you tackle is always hardest at the beginning, like working
up a swing.- P.K. Shaw


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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Kent A. Reed]

On 1/17/2012 9:16 PM, Chris Radek wrote:
> In the spring of 2011, the LinuxCNC Board of Directors was contacted
> by a law firm representing EMC Corporation (www.emc.com) about the use
> of "EMC" and "EMC2" to identify the software offered on linuxcnc.org.
> EMC Corporation has registered various trademarks relating to EMC and
> EMC^2 (EMC with superscripted numeral two).
>
> After a number of conversations with the representative of EMC
> Corporation, the final result is that, starting with the next major
> release of the software, linuxcnc.org will stop identifying the
> software using "emc" or "EMC", or those terms followed by digits.  To
> the extent that the LinuxCNC Board of Directors controls the names
> used to identify the software offered on linuxcnc.org, the board has
> agreed to this.
>
> As a result, it was necessary to choose a new name for the software.
> Of the options the board considered, there was consensus that
> "LinuxCNC" is the best option, as this has been our website's name for
> years.<...snip...>
>
>
> Thank you for your continuing support of the LinuxCNC project.
>
> Yours,
> The LinuxCNC Board of Directors:
> Jeff Epler
> Alex Joni
> John Kasunich
> Stephen Wille Padnos
> Chris Radek
>
>
Gentle persons:

I've often wondered about this. There's a large office building just 
down the road from me with EMC emblazoned on the side facing Interstate 
270, a road thousands drive every day.

It sounds like the Board and EMC Corp worked out a workable solution and 
I'll be happy to help effect it. I just hope that steps are being taken 
to be sure we protect the LinuxCNC mark.

Regards,
Kent

PS - and now this old nitpicker no longer has to worry about whether the 
docs should call it EMC or EMC2 :-)



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Re: [Emc-users] steppers

[cogoman]

> Could you give me some idea of what the advantage is of using 2 and 3
> >  stack steppers?
   Perhaps I'm in over my head here, but I'll share what I think I 
know.  The tendency for 2 to 3 stack steppers is for the magnetic 
circuit inside to get too long, and create high inductance for the 
amount of field strength it produces.  This limits the top speed of the 
stepper (the assumption here is standard 200 steps per rev steppers).  
There's a point where stepping up to a NEMA34 from a NEMA23 will get the 
torque needed with less inductance, which allows for more speed.
   This, is more theoretical than practical, since it is quite possible 
to design a slow stepper in both NEMA23 and NEMA34 sizes, and many do 
just that.  While a fast stepper motor needs to have less than 3 mH 
inductance per coil, I have seen even small steppers with over 10 mH.

Rexstep stepper motors 

 
and usa stepper motors  
seem to have low inductance per torque, assuming you can trust their specs.

This one 
, 
and this one 
 
seem to have too much inductance for fast operation.  So practically 
speaking, you need to evaluate each motor separately.

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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[Erik Christiansen]

On 17.01.12 20:30, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 17, 2012 07:15:33 PM Fox Mulder did opine:
> > Am 17.01.2012 21:47, schrieb gene heskett:
> > > Checking requirements, I see that libpng14.so.14 is required so
> > > you helped me build a script: gene@shop:/opt/eagle-6.1.0$ cat
> > > bin/eagle LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$(dirname "$0")" "$(dirname "$0")/eagle.orig" 
> > > $@

That's a good way to do it if you want to keep the .so with eagle.
Another way is to drop a copy of it into /lib, and then run ldconfig,
to update the cache for ld.so, so it can find it without further ado.
A third way is to leave the .so in its current odd spot, and just add
the path to /etc/ld.so.conf before running ldconfig.

> > > It doesn't complain about a missing library so I assume that is
> > > working, but for a universal launcher, should I not have a /usr/bin
> > > bash script that first does a cd to /opt/eagle-6.1.0/ in order to
> > > setup the pwd, and then do a 'bin/eagle'?  In any event, it seems to
> > > work.

Then it's fine. Setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH is an entirely acceptable way to
get by, even if it can be done without a script. Those GUI configs you did
(Options -> Directories?) allow eagle to find your projects, so there's
no need for a cd.

...

> Ah, now I see a totally different selection window. I left click on the + 
> sign of library you sent, and see the devices name.  Now I have managed to 
> get 3 copies of it planted on the schematic,

If that's via the "Add" icon on the schematic editor, then you're cooking.

> & a few wires drawn, at which point I note that pin assignments on the
> device aren't exactly correct, and to match the device itself, I'll
> have to swap on end of it or the other around as the GND's are on the
> diagonal corners.  I'll need to think on which I swap that around as I
> assume the xml part description in the library is where to fix it. 

If the part is OK, but for the pinout, the easiest fix is to create a
variant of the existing part, if you want to keep the original pinout as
well. To avoid loss when updating the supplied libraries, and to keep
customised stuff handy, it is good to copy the part over to your own
library, and edit that, I think.

> Apparently not, the schematic doesn't change with the current contents
> of the library.  Throw it out & start over. 

Nope, to update the library info used in an open schematic editor, hit
Library->Update and select the modified library, or just use
Library->Update_All.

> Probably tomorrow after I read for a couple hours.

Yeah. And they claim GUIs are intuitive.


...

> > > But in eagle, I have yet to find that command line box talked
> > > about in the tuts so I can't run the setup utility it talks about
> > > in its install.html.

Any of eagle's commands can be run in that white strip at the top of the
schematic editor's drawing area. There's a blinking cursor, inviting
input.

> If I fix the library, will that fix the schematic when it is next
> loaded?

If the library has changed, then eagle usually warns on next startup,
that schematic and/or board may be affected, and makes you click to
confirm, IIRC.

A Library->Update after editing the part naturally avoids such
surprises.

Erik

-- 
The meta-problem here is that the configuration wizard does all the approved
rituals (GUI with standardized clicky buttons, help popping up in a browser,
etc. etc.) but doesn't have the central attribute these are supposed to achieve:
discoverability. That is, the quality that every point in the interface has
prompts and actions attached to it from which you can learn what to do next.
   - Eric Raymond, in "The Luxury of Ignorance."

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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[Ed Nisley]

On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 20:30 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> If I fix the library, 
> will that fix the schematic when it is next loaded?

Nope, the schematic holds copies of all the components, so that you
can't inadvertently wreck all your circuits with a single library
change.

You must delete all instances of the old part from the schematic,
refresh the library to get the new part, and then re-place all of them.

It's a pain, but it does make a certain kind of sense.

> those manuals were in my mailbox this evening.

Excellent! Now, keep telling the occasional war story...

-- 
Ed
http://softsolder.com



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[Emc-users] LinuxCNC: The new name of the Enhanced Machine Controller

[Chris Radek]

In the spring of 2011, the LinuxCNC Board of Directors was contacted
by a law firm representing EMC Corporation (www.emc.com) about the use
of "EMC" and "EMC2" to identify the software offered on linuxcnc.org.
EMC Corporation has registered various trademarks relating to EMC and
EMC^2 (EMC with superscripted numeral two).

After a number of conversations with the representative of EMC
Corporation, the final result is that, starting with the next major
release of the software, linuxcnc.org will stop identifying the
software using "emc" or "EMC", or those terms followed by digits.  To
the extent that the LinuxCNC Board of Directors controls the names
used to identify the software offered on linuxcnc.org, the board has
agreed to this.

As a result, it was necessary to choose a new name for the software.
Of the options the board considered, there was consensus that
"LinuxCNC" is the best option, as this has been our website's name for
years.

In preparation for the new name, we have received a sub-license of the
LINUX(R) trademark from the Linux Foundation
(http://www.linuxfoundation.org), protecting our use of the LinuxCNC
name.  (LINUX(R) is the registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in the
U.S. and other countries.)

The rebranding effort will include the linuxcnc.org website, the IRC
channels, and versions of the software and documentation starting with
2.5.0.  Rebranding will begin right away.

If you like, you can help us by updating name references on the wiki
(http://wiki.linuxcnc.org), or by contributing graphics such as a new
splash screen image or a new cover for the manual.

There is no need for anything like a legal defense fund or a letter
writing campaign to the EMC Corporation.  They have absolutely treated
us with respect and they are not "bad guys".  We urge you to see this
as an opportunity for the LinuxCNC project and for all users and
contributors.  Our new name clearly and concisely explains what the
software is.  The renaming process will create positive buzz about the
project.

Thank you for your continuing support of the LinuxCNC project.

Yours,
The LinuxCNC Board of Directors:
Jeff Epler
Alex Joni
John Kasunich
Stephen Wille Padnos
Chris Radek

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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2012 07:15:33 PM Fox Mulder did opine:

> Am 17.01.2012 21:47, schrieb gene heskett:
> > Greets all;
> > 
> > Going thru the docs for eagle, in this case following the
> > tutorial_en.pdf, resetting the directories to where they exist on
> > that machine seems to stick over an exit and restart.  Checking
> > requirements, I see that libpng14.so.14 is required so you helped me
> > build a script:
> > gene@shop:/opt/eagle-6.1.0$ cat bin/eagle
> > LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$(dirname "$0")" "$(dirname "$0")/eagle.orig" $@
> > 
> > It doesn't complain about a missing library so I assume that is
> > working, but for a universal launcher, should I not have a /usr/bin
> > bash script that first does a cd to /opt/eagle-6.1.0/ in order to
> > setup the pwd, and then do a 'bin/eagle'?  In any event, it seems to
> > work.
> > 
> > I have eagle open and showing my project(empty of course) highlighted
> > with a green indicator button dot in the left pane of the window.
> > 
> > Reading along in the tut and seeing a few things as I go along in its
> > description, I get to pages 12-13-14 where it says
> > 
> >  'Option->Menu etc' or Options/Set, Color tab,
> > 
> > But when I open the option menu, I only have 4 items:
> > 
> > Directories
> > Backup
> > User Interface
> > Window positions
> 
> These settings are only available when you are in the schematic or board
> window, not main window.
> 
> > I've been thru the user interface panel & changed a few things, like
> > inverting the foreground/background colors used, but with no effects
> > seen.
> 
> These settings only apply for the schematics and board window, not main
> window.
> 
> > The settings do seem to stick over a quit & restart ok.
> > 
> > I don't seem to be able to create an empty schematic page, only ever
> > deeper directories named for the page.sch I want.  This under the
> > 'file' menu.
> 
> Normally you just have to click file->new->schematic to create an empty
> schematic window. You can also right click on the selected project
> folder (green dot at the right of it) and select new->schematic to
> start.
 
Did that, worked, thanks Fox.

> > I can open the libraries and select the device, which then opens in
> > its own window showing it both schematically and a footprint outline
> > but despite reading how to select and use the device, I have no
> > 'schematic' window to copy it into, so none of those commands do
> > anything, not even blinking the screen to indicate an error.  The
> > claim is made that a device should be hanging from the cursor when
> > selected, but its never happened.  It is also single threaded making
> > it impossible to do a drag & drop because as long as the library
> > window is open, all others appear to be unfocusable, greyed out.  I
> > get the impression that when I am looking at the selected device in
> > the library's window, that I am actually looking at the device in its
> > editor window, presumably not the select and use window.  And no clue
> > how to get there except I have now gotten there probably 20 times by
> > opening the library, then opening the library in that window and
> > clicking on the now visible devices name which appears to open an
> > editor to edit the device.
> > 
> > Do I have a defective install?  or am I just too damned dumb??
> 
> This is the wrong way of working with eagle. When you open a library
> than only if you want to create/edit/delete parts in the library. For
> using it you go through the schematic/board window and use the "ADD"
> function which uses these libraries.

Ah, now I see a totally different selection window. I left click on the + 
sign of library you sent, and see the devices name.  Now I have managed to 
get 3 copies of it planted on the schematic, & a few wires drawn, at which 
point I note that pin assignments on the device aren't exactly correct, and 
to match the device itself, I'll have to swap on end of it or the other 
around as the GND's are on the diagonal corners.  I'll need to think on 
which I swap that around as I assume the xml part description in the 
library is where to fix it.  Apparently not, the schematic doesn't change 
with the current contents of the library.  Throw it out & start over.  
Probably tomorrow after I read for a couple hours.
> 
> > I have also downloaded & unpacked pcb-gcode-3.5.2.11.zip, which seems
> > to be a fairly major suite of tools in its own right, but haven't
> > attempted to sort that basket of rattlesnakes just yet.  Looks simple
> > enough, unzip it to a 'ulp' directory & add that to the ulp directory
> > path, so now I have 2 ulp directories. One with the contents of that
> > zip in it.  Kewl.  But in eagle, I have yet to find that command line
> > box talked about in the tuts so I can't run the setup utility it
> > talks about in its install.html.  And I just noted that this added
> > ulp directory, built where the docs said to build it, also shows up
> > in the projects menu.  No clue if that is good 

Re: [Emc-users] W axis Setup

[robert]

On 17/01/2012 06:22, Clint Washburn wrote:
>   How do you handle the tool
> changers?   I am using classicladder and it seems to work well.   The turret
> in the video looks similar to the W axis on my Hitachi Seiki Lathe.
>
same here all in classicladder

i use
T1-8 top
T21-28 bottom turret

u can flip the lathe screen around but u probly found that info already 
correct? to get a kinda slant bed lathe look of things
does not fully work as emc does not have a true slantbed lathe mode of 
such..

rob

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[Emc-users] ttt and openvoronoi py-scripts

[Anders Wallin]

Hi all,

I've hacked together a few scripts that demonstrate some progress with
my openvoronoi project:
http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/01/emc2-filters/

This is all very experimental and most examples will break even with
small changes. The most obvious problem is that openvoronoi prints
warnings to stdout, while AXIS takes everything printed to stdout as
g-code input. Can anyone suggest a proper logging-library/practice for
c++ that I could use?

Is there a good library for reading DXF files? With python bindings?
To further test pocketing and offsetting I think it would be nice to
write a new script dxf2pocket which reads a DXF-file and produces
pocketing paths.

If there is interest in these small scripts that run from AXIS and
produce G-code directly into EMC2 (similar to [1]) I can try to
support this, but it's unlikely I will write any GUIs myself.
For openvoronoi-specific issues, further discussion can be hosted at:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/opencamlib
The ToDo list for openvoronoi is too long to quote here. If you are
talented at math, geometry, c++, machining, and have some time to
spare we really need your help!

If anyone is enthusiastic about my ttt C++ port I'd be happy to hand
over completing the c++ port and maintaining ttt++ to someone else.

Anders
[1] http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators

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Re: [Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[Fox Mulder]

Am 17.01.2012 21:47, schrieb gene heskett:
> Greets all;
> 
> Going thru the docs for eagle, in this case following the tutorial_en.pdf,
> resetting the directories to where they exist on that machine seems to 
> stick over an exit and restart.  Checking requirements, I see that 
> libpng14.so.14 is required so you helped me build a script:
> gene@shop:/opt/eagle-6.1.0$ cat bin/eagle
> LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$(dirname "$0")" "$(dirname "$0")/eagle.orig" $@
> 
> It doesn't complain about a missing library so I assume that is working, 
> but for a universal launcher, should I not have a /usr/bin bash script that 
> first does a cd to /opt/eagle-6.1.0/ in order to setup the pwd, and then do 
> a 'bin/eagle'?  In any event, it seems to work.
> 
> I have eagle open and showing my project(empty of course) highlighted with 
> a green indicator button dot in the left pane of the window.
> 
> Reading along in the tut and seeing a few things as I go along in its 
> description, I get to pages 12-13-14 where it says
>  'Option->Menu etc' or Options/Set, Color tab,
> 
> But when I open the option menu, I only have 4 items:
> 
> Directories
> Backup
> User Interface
> Window positions

These settings are only available when you are in the schematic or board
window, not main window.

> I've been thru the user interface panel & changed a few things, like 
> inverting the foreground/background colors used, but with no effects seen.

These settings only apply for the schematics and board window, not main
window.

> The settings do seem to stick over a quit & restart ok.
> 
> I don't seem to be able to create an empty schematic page, only ever deeper 
> directories named for the page.sch I want.  This under the 'file' menu.

Normally you just have to click file->new->schematic to create an empty
schematic window. You can also right click on the selected project
folder (green dot at the right of it) and select new->schematic to start.

> 
> I can open the libraries and select the device, which then opens in its own 
> window showing it both schematically and a footprint outline but despite 
> reading how to select and use the device, I have no 'schematic' window to 
> copy it into, so none of those commands do anything, not even blinking the 
> screen to indicate an error.  The claim is made that a device should be 
> hanging from the cursor when selected, but its never happened.  It is also 
> single threaded making it impossible to do a drag & drop because as long as 
> the library window is open, all others appear to be unfocusable, greyed 
> out.  I get the impression that when I am looking at the selected device in 
> the library's window, that I am actually looking at the device in its 
> editor window, presumably not the select and use window.  And no clue how 
> to get there except I have now gotten there probably 20 times by opening 
> the library, then opening the library in that window and clicking on the 
> now visible devices name which appears to open an editor to edit the 
> device.
> 
> Do I have a defective install?  or am I just too damned dumb??

This is the wrong way of working with eagle. When you open a library
than only if you want to create/edit/delete parts in the library. For
using it you go through the schematic/board window and use the "ADD"
function which uses these libraries.

> 
> I have also downloaded & unpacked pcb-gcode-3.5.2.11.zip, which seems to be 
> a fairly major suite of tools in its own right, but haven't attempted to 
> sort that basket of rattlesnakes just yet.  Looks simple enough, unzip it 
> to a 'ulp' directory & add that to the ulp directory path, so now I have 2 
> ulp directories. One with the contents of that zip in it.  Kewl.  But in 
> eagle, I have yet to find that command line box talked about in the tuts so 
> I can't run the setup utility it talks about in its install.html.  And I 
> just noted that this added ulp directory, built where the docs said to 
> build it, also shows up in the projects menu.  No clue if that is good or 
> bad, just commenting.

Instead of using the commandline in eagle to run it you can (in the
schematic/board window) use file->execute ULP and select the
corresponding ulp file like pcb-gcode-setup.ulp which does the same.

Ciao,
 Rainer

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[Emc-users] eagle-6.1.0 (again)

[gene heskett]

Greets all;

Going thru the docs for eagle, in this case following the tutorial_en.pdf,
resetting the directories to where they exist on that machine seems to 
stick over an exit and restart.  Checking requirements, I see that 
libpng14.so.14 is required so you helped me build a script:
gene@shop:/opt/eagle-6.1.0$ cat bin/eagle
LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$(dirname "$0")" "$(dirname "$0")/eagle.orig" $@

It doesn't complain about a missing library so I assume that is working, 
but for a universal launcher, should I not have a /usr/bin bash script that 
first does a cd to /opt/eagle-6.1.0/ in order to setup the pwd, and then do 
a 'bin/eagle'?  In any event, it seems to work.

I have eagle open and showing my project(empty of course) highlighted with 
a green indicator button dot in the left pane of the window.

Reading along in the tut and seeing a few things as I go along in its 
description, I get to pages 12-13-14 where it says
 'Option->Menu etc' or Options/Set, Color tab,

But when I open the option menu, I only have 4 items:

Directories
Backup
User Interface
Window positions

I've been thru the user interface panel & changed a few things, like 
inverting the foreground/background colors used, but with no effects seen.  
The settings do seem to stick over a quit & restart ok.

I don't seem to be able to create an empty schematic page, only ever deeper 
directories named for the page.sch I want.  This under the 'file' menu.

I can open the libraries and select the device, which then opens in its own 
window showing it both schematically and a footprint outline but despite 
reading how to select and use the device, I have no 'schematic' window to 
copy it into, so none of those commands do anything, not even blinking the 
screen to indicate an error.  The claim is made that a device should be 
hanging from the cursor when selected, but its never happened.  It is also 
single threaded making it impossible to do a drag & drop because as long as 
the library window is open, all others appear to be unfocusable, greyed 
out.  I get the impression that when I am looking at the selected device in 
the library's window, that I am actually looking at the device in its 
editor window, presumably not the select and use window.  And no clue how 
to get there except I have now gotten there probably 20 times by opening 
the library, then opening the library in that window and clicking on the 
now visible devices name which appears to open an editor to edit the 
device.

Do I have a defective install?  or am I just too damned dumb??

I have also downloaded & unpacked pcb-gcode-3.5.2.11.zip, which seems to be 
a fairly major suite of tools in its own right, but haven't attempted to 
sort that basket of rattlesnakes just yet.  Looks simple enough, unzip it 
to a 'ulp' directory & add that to the ulp directory path, so now I have 2 
ulp directories. One with the contents of that zip in it.  Kewl.  But in 
eagle, I have yet to find that command line box talked about in the tuts so 
I can't run the setup utility it talks about in its install.html.  And I 
just noted that this added ulp directory, built where the docs said to 
build it, also shows up in the projects menu.  No clue if that is good or 
bad, just commenting.

Thanks all.

And just for a heads up, that basal cell cancer they removed a dime sized 
piece of my nose to get it out on Dec 1st, now has another teeny little 
eruption about 1/4" on down the side of my nose that will be looked at on 
the 26th.  Too many years of getting a good tan every summer I guess.  Now 
its pay the piper (actually the whole darned orchestra from the way they 
bill) time.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Die Grinder Collets

[BRIAN GLACKIN]

 

> You are working with a bigger gantry I assume?
>
> Yep, I have a 25" X 49" X 4" work envelop.  I rarely use more than 3/4"
vertical.  If I ever waterline mill out some of the terrain models of mines
I am involved with the design of, then I will use the full Z and still want
more.


> > My biggest problem is with the collet slipping after my first cuts.  I
> > need to make sure I always snug up the collet after the few minutes of
> > starting the router.
>
> I fight with that on this HF die grinder continuously when its in use.  A
> .250" by 1.25" long 2 flute upcut spiral, TiN coated mill will walk out of
> that collet about 5 thou for every tenon I cut on the end of a poplar
> stick.  I solved the tenon length problem by parking the head back at
> z=0.000, and run the stick up against the end of the bit, with all the
> sticks precut to the exact length + 2X tenon length.  But I still need to
> reset the mill in the collet about every 10 sticks processed, 20 tenons
> IOW.  That run was for about 48 sticks plus 5 or 6 spares in case I didn't
> like where that knot was. :)
>
> And that is when tightening that collet, with a film of never-sieze on the
> collets ramps, with a box end wrench about 9" long, to the proverbial 1/8th
> turn from stripped out tight.  IMO that collet needs a full redesign to use
> sleeves with tapered ends and a cone in the shaft with a matching one on
> the nut.  As is, the angle of the ramp used to tighten it against the bit
> shank is too high.  Because the collet is one piece, there is no stuck bit
> syndrome because loosening the collet turns it in the ramp & the bit falls
> out by the time its loosened 1/8 turn.
>
How much meat are you cutting off the stick with each pass?  I find that if
I limit my cut depth to 50% of the endmill diameter, I my collet stays put
for several sessions.  If I try deeper cuts, it walks out.

I recently tweaked my O word file so that I only need to give it the XY
path of the part/shape I cut out and my endmill diamter and the subroutine
repeats the path at the .5D depth until it reaches the target depth.  Make
generating my gcode much simpler.


>
> I've looked at a lot of routers without finding one that had a truly
> straight, no runout collet.  Hitachi's M12V, way too big for this, has the
> best collets ever.
>
> I have pulled appart the one die grinder I have and replaced the
bearings.  The spindle is quite simple and could easily be replaced with a
more efficient design.  Again that requires me to come up to speed on how
to use one of the 5 lathes I picked up off craigslist for less than scrap
prices.  I keep telling myself I WILL learn how to use one of them, looking
for a rountuit to spend on that learning cycle.


> > I have considered the colt trim router but I love the fact that I do not
> > have all that cooling air flushing over the cut surfaces.  The PC router
> > I originally used threw dust all over my garage to the point I couldn't
> > stay in the room. THe die grinder along with a cyclone in line with my
> > shop vac has eliminated dust even when cutting MDF.  I will still get
> > bigger chips on the surface but they are not dust
>
> Yeah, that Oneida 'Dust Deputy' is the slickest thing since bottled beer.
> But my shopvac is almost too much flow, heavier stuff tends to just sit
> there and spin till the power goes off.  I got one about a year ago,
> several of those 5 gallon cans of trash has been dumped, I can still see
> the bottom of the tub in a 12.5 gallon shopvac, and I only pulled its
> filter ($30) once to clean it up when I put the DD on it.  Best $80 I ever
> spent!  Its usually plugged into the back of my table saw, controlled by
> one of those gizmos that turns it on & off with the saw.


Yep, I got the same one.  I considered making one of the cyclones using
Bill Pentz calculator, but I just don't have that time right now.  The
purchase has been worth every penny.  Especially when my basement flooded
this past fall and I had roughly 1500 gallons to clean up.  Using that
cyclone, I sucked up over 300 - 5 gallon buckets of water from the basement
in less than 3 hours.  My wife ran the vac hose, I flip flopped the cyclone
between 2 5 gallon buckets  and alternately dumped the full bucket into a
larger container holding a sump pump.  Having a 100 year old house has its
challenges.

Brian
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