Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
Thanks for those ideas. I really would like black buttons with white lettering, but the only way to get translucent buttons is in white. I guess I could consider reversing it, and infilling the engraving. My initial experiments didn't work well doing infilling, so I did one using a black auto primer and engraved the button, which worked well. Really the right way to do this would be to get a silicon keypad made, but for a one off project that is unworkable. On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 11:20 PM, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote: On Fri, 2012-12-07 at 22:44 -0500, Bruce Layne wrote: I reverse laser engrave legend plates, device labels, operator panels and sometimes prototype membrane switches. I've also done front surface engraving. I assume that's what you're doing on these switches. The big problem with that is that fingers activating the switches will erode the paint from a front engraving. If you're stuck with front surface engraving, then I'd engrave deeply and use a lot of paint, or several layers of paint and several layers of clear coat on top. Another trick that can work well is to use a liquid paint instead of a rattle can of spray paint, fill the deeply engraved letters with it rather than using several coats of spray paint, and use a solvent to remove the excess paint from the top surface of the key cap. Make sure the solvent is compatible with the key cap plastic. Or, let the paint dry thoroughly and mechanically remove it from the top of the key cap so it only remains in the engraved letters. Fine sandpaper or ScotchBrite works well for this. If you want a glossy surface instead of the brushed finish you'd get with unidirectional sanding or the matte finish you'd get from random sanding, you can finish with 600 grit paper and then Micromesh or Abralon (1200-1500 grit foam backed ultra-fine sandpaper). I have an EFD-1500 electronic fluid dispenser that I've used with a very fine gauge needle on the syringe to dispense paint into engraving. It helps to use a lighted magnifier, have a steady rest for your hand, and go easy on the caffeine for this delicate operation, but the paint wicks well and fills the engraved letters with no mess on the unengraved top. Model paint from a hobby shop might work well for this. Fingernail polish might work too. For engraving jobs with large and simple fonts, there are paint sticks that look somewhat like felt tip markers. They dispense paint instead of ink, so they fill the engraving well and the paint is fairly opaque. You might have some luck putting tape over the top surface, engraving it, spray painting it, allow the paint to dry and then remove the tape which served as a spray shield. This would probably work a lot better for laser engraving rather than rotary engraving with a small cutting bit. There is typically better coverage with a good brand of paint like the Krylon that you're using because there is apparently more pigment in the paint, and the solvent in the better brands of paint seems less likely to orange peel when applied to plastic than the 99 cent el-cheapo paint. I used some black spray paint recently from a major manufacturer, probably purchased at Lowe's, that advertised twice the coverage. It was marketed as something like ultra coverage or ultra coat. That might help your translucency problem. I hope you bought extra buttons for a little trial and error. This one-off prototype stuff usually involves some waste. I recently got in a hurry and accidentally had the laser cut about half an inch off the edge of the $32 ultra scratch resistant polycarbonate sheet that I was reverse engraving for the top of the tool rack for my soon-to-be-CNC milling machine. Then I decided to try to front surface engrave the HDPE substrate even though I knew that was unlikely. Sure enough, the material didn't engrave well and required five passes to get the engraving depth I wanted. Then the paint wouldn't stick to the waxy surface, chipped and flaked out, and looked awful. I bought another $32 sheet of polycarbonate and laser engraved it the night before last, painted it yesterday, and I'm going to epoxy it to the HDPE substrate. Hopefully the two square feet of surface area will provide a strong enough epoxy bond, even on the HDPE. If not, I'll use countersunk flat head screws... or I'll use PVC for the 3/4 thick substrate. I'll test the bond strength with the botched piece of polycarbonate and a scrap of HDPE first. I don't want to buy a third sheet of $32 plastic! Oh, the joys of prototypes and one-off custom work. Good luck! Just a random thought ... front engrave decently deep and then fill with colored epoxy and polish flush. This implies that you have clear buttons tho. May the force be with you. Dave On 12/07/2012 08:25 PM, Erik Friesen wrote: I painted some of these
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote: Thanks for those ideas. I really would like black buttons with white lettering, but the only way to get translucent buttons is in white. I guess I could consider reversing it, and infilling the engraving. My initial experiments didn't work well doing infilling, so I did one using a black auto primer and engraved the button, which worked well. Really the right way to do this would be to get a silicon keypad made, but for a one off project that is unworkable. Erik, Is there any way you can get already coated black buttons that are translucent underneath the finish and then engrave them? Would save the step of trying to paint them and the finish that comes on them would probably be more durable. Mark -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
I doubt it. Some companies won't talk to you unless you are willing to spend $50k, the next may want $1k, its a gamble. They do put an stl of the button on their website, I guess if I had a two color 3d printer I could do it that way? On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote: Thanks for those ideas. I really would like black buttons with white lettering, but the only way to get translucent buttons is in white. I guess I could consider reversing it, and infilling the engraving. My initial experiments didn't work well doing infilling, so I did one using a black auto primer and engraved the button, which worked well. Really the right way to do this would be to get a silicon keypad made, but for a one off project that is unworkable. Erik, Is there any way you can get already coated black buttons that are translucent underneath the finish and then engrave them? Would save the step of trying to paint them and the finish that comes on them would probably be more durable. Mark -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote: I doubt it. Some companies won't talk to you unless you are willing to spend $50k, the next may want $1k, its a gamble. They do put an stl of the button on their website, I guess if I had a two color 3d printer I could do it that way? Ah, ok, so all the buttons out there are black all the way through? Wasn't sure if they made buttons like that or not, but it would be handy if they did, eh? Mark -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On 8 December 2012 03:13, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Setting a trip point in the hal file, and a hystersis value there too, I have only been feeding comp.0.in1 and using the out as motion enable. That is sort-of OK, though that assumes that an unlinked pin is zero. I assume you are setting the sensitivity with the hyst parameter? The near component might work better, enabling motion while error is near zero. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
On 12/08/2012 08:31 AM, Erik Friesen wrote: Really the right way to do this would be to get a silicon keypad made, but for a one off project that is unworkable. It sounds like you've already gone through a lot of trouble on this, which is typical for a one off project. For all of your effort, you may be able to make a silicone rubber keypad overlay. Have you seen the Jog It! control pendant on KickStarter? It has a prototype silicone keypad. Apparently his handmade prototype yellowed a bit after a year, but it's still very workable. Or, you could keep the mold and cast another silicone overlay if the yellowing bothered you. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1651082654/jog-it-open-source-controller-pendant-for-emc2-and Jerome seems like an approachable hacker who would probably get you pointed in the right direction on casting silicone rubber. Google also seems to know a lot about this topic. You could probably find a material that didn't yellow. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+cast+silicone+rubber -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On Saturday 08 December 2012 12:51:07 andy pugh did opine: On 8 December 2012 03:13, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Setting a trip point in the hal file, and a hystersis value there too, I have only been feeding comp.0.in1 and using the out as motion enable. That is sort-of OK, though that assumes that an unlinked pin is zero. I assume you are setting the sensitivity with the hyst parameter? The near component might work better, enabling motion while error is near zero. Thanks Andy, I'll take a look at that. (calls up very simple man page) Yes, that does look as if it could be useful. Can the scale parameter be used as a pin? With the intention of giving it a larger 'near'=true output at the higher speeds? One of the problems I've seen occasionally with the previous setup I ran most of last summer, was that the trip was bidirectional, and if the spindle was turning at a good rate when the stop button was hit, the error developed because of the perceived spindle over-speed, usually tripped the the thing too, a minor pita. I never got around to putting in an error had to be positive only logic block. Sort of a duh at the time, but I was making 209 nipples for one of my BP rifles and having fun at the time. :) Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! Use extra care when cleaning on stairs. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
Greetings; Is this an oversight, or just considered as too big for a man page? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! You will attract cultured and artistic people to your home. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Another gotcha
Greetings; IMO the near module needs its input pins renamed in base0, having modules pin numbers in both base1 and base0 is confusing. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! The most dangerous food is wedding cake. -- American proverb I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
Bruce Layne wrote: If you're stuck with front surface engraving, then I'd engrave deeply and use a lot of paint, or several layers of paint and several layers of clear coat on top. Another trick that can work well is to use a liquid paint instead of a rattle can of spray paint, fill the deeply engraved letters with it rather than using several coats of spray paint, and use a solvent to remove the excess paint from the top surface of the key cap. I did this once to repair a button. i filled the letters all the way, and then sanded the excess paint off. it worked very well. Jon -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
Is this an oversight, or just considered as too big for a man page? hal by itself is not a command you would execute from the terminal. man hal otoh gives a general description of hal. so this is roughly OK I would say. halscope would be an example of a command that doesn't have a man-page afaik. AW -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
I don't see an easy way to make multicolored silicon rubber buttons, though. I shouldn't even open my mind to doing silicon, its one of those things that is tempting though. I guess I could try making my own buttons with translucent black acrylic. I am stuck using something that will fit on top of the matching switch. - http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/4FTH982/679-2255-ND/2034811 , as I am $850 into 1 4-layer, and 2 2 layer boards, already. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Bruce Layne wrote: If you're stuck with front surface engraving, then I'd engrave deeply and use a lot of paint, or several layers of paint and several layers of clear coat on top. Another trick that can work well is to use a liquid paint instead of a rattle can of spray paint, fill the deeply engraved letters with it rather than using several coats of spray paint, and use a solvent to remove the excess paint from the top surface of the key cap. I did this once to repair a button. i filled the letters all the way, and then sanded the excess paint off. it worked very well. Jon -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
On Saturday 08 December 2012 16:11:14 Anders Wallin did opine: Is this an oversight, or just considered as too big for a man page? hal by itself is not a command you would execute from the terminal. man hal otoh gives a general description of hal. On your machines, but not on mine, and I do have the docs package installed. Example: gene@lathe:~/linuxcnc/configs/my-lathe$ man hal No manual entry for hal so this is roughly OK I would say. halscope would be an example of a command that doesn't have a man-page afaik. That in essence doesn't need much of a man page, its pretty intuitive. What we need is a short man page that describes the syntax of the various first word of a line settings, loadrt, addf, setp, net, etc. My machines have no such help file, so I have to go find the loose leaf binder that has what probably is dated content since I have not printed it in at least a year, and look it up. But then I only have perhaps 3 or 4 copies laying around, but which is the most recent? The title page may give the document version, but doesn't say clearly what version of linuxcnc it applies to. This at some point, needs to be gotten on the same page so I know when its time to walk over to the trash can and clean out that particular 3 ring binder. I guess I'm in rant mode today, but such roadblocks that disturb ones train of thought really do need a bit of demolition. ;-) Thanks Anders. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! The bigger the theory the better. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
On 12/8/2012 4:25 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Saturday 08 December 2012 16:11:14 Anders Wallin did opine: Is this an oversight, or just considered as too big for a man page? hal by itself is not a command you would execute from the terminal. man hal otoh gives a general description of hal. On your machines, but not on mine, and I do have the docs package installed. Example: gene@lathe:~/linuxcnc/configs/my-lathe$ man hal No manual entry for hal Be specific to be terrific! What revs of LinuxCNC are you two running? You may just be seeing differences in the docs included in some released version vs those in the master branch, for example. Regards, Kent -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
On Saturday 08 December 2012 17:00:37 Kent A. Reed did opine: On 12/8/2012 4:25 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Saturday 08 December 2012 16:11:14 Anders Wallin did opine: Is this an oversight, or just considered as too big for a man page? hal by itself is not a command you would execute from the terminal. man hal otoh gives a general description of hal. On your machines, but not on mine, and I do have the docs package installed. Example: gene@lathe:~/linuxcnc/configs/my-lathe$ man hal No manual entry for hal Be specific to be terrific! What revs of LinuxCNC are you two running? 2.5.1-132+somehash number Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! You will be advanced socially, without any special effort on your part. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
On 12/08/2012 02:25 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: What we need is a short man page that describes the syntax of the various first word of a line settings, loadrt, addf, setp, net, etc. This may not be intuitive or obvious, but loadrt, net, and friends are all handled by a command called halcmd, which does have a manpage. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On 8 December 2012 18:06, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: One of the problems I've seen occasionally with the previous setup I ran most of last summer, was that the trip was bidirectional, and if the spindle was turning at a good rate when the stop button was hit, the error developed because of the perceived spindle over-speed, usually tripped the the thing too, a minor pita. Well, in that case you probably want to use comp as you already are. That's unidirectional. But you are saying that you want to have the trip threshold proportional to speed. The way to do that is probably to pass spindle speed feedback into sum2 (noting that sum2 has gain and offset, so you can play games like sum2 spindle-speed and spindle speed * -0.1 to have 90% of spindle speed on the output. ) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
On Saturday 08 December 2012 18:04:26 Sebastian Kuzminsky did opine: On 12/08/2012 02:25 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: What we need is a short man page that describes the syntax of the various first word of a line settings, loadrt, addf, setp, net, etc. This may not be intuitive or obvious, 40 rogers on that! but loadrt, net, and friends are all handled by a command called halcmd, which does have a manpage. That is pretty much what I was looking for, Thanks Sebastion. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! They ought to make butt-flavored cat food. --Gallagher I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On Saturday 08 December 2012 18:16:35 andy pugh did opine: On 8 December 2012 18:06, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: One of the problems I've seen occasionally with the previous setup I ran most of last summer, was that the trip was bidirectional, and if the spindle was turning at a good rate when the stop button was hit, the error developed because of the perceived spindle over-speed, usually tripped the the thing too, a minor pita. Well, in that case you probably want to use comp as you already are. That's unidirectional. But you are saying that you want to have the trip threshold proportional to speed. The way to do that is probably to pass spindle speed feedback into sum2 (noting that sum2 has gain and offset, so you can play games like sum2 spindle-speed and spindle speed * -0.1 to have 90% of spindle speed on the output. ) Printed FFR. This is something I will try, Andy, if I don't seem to get the results I want by parameter adjustments. I've been hiding inside, logged into it, and playing with my-lathe.hal most of the afternoon, and currently have a huge lowpass between the requested spindle-speed from Axis, needed so it doesn't clear the fuse with a huge 0-400 revs change the gcode might issue, with lowpass0.out feeding both pid.0.command and near.0.in1. and near.0.in2 connected to encoder.0.velocity - lowpass.1.in, gain .2 for a bit of noise filtering and lowpass.1.out - near.0.in2. But it hasn't been in person live tested yet. I could work on this a bit more intelligently if I drilled out a 5x20 fuse and the holder cap to put an AC-DC ammeter I cobbled up years ago for the mills spindle, into this circuit so I had a better clue as to how hard the motor was actually working. Thanks Andy. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! Yow! I just went below the poverty line! I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
On 8 December 2012 21:25, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: What we need is a short man page that describes the syntax of the various first word of a line settings, loadrt, addf, setp, net, etc. man halcmd. OK, so you actually have to be psychic to guess that. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On 8 December 2012 23:33, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: I could work on this a bit more intelligently if I drilled out a 5x20 fuse and the holder cap http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/fuses-sockets-circuit-breakers/fuses-pcb/resettable-wire-ended-fuses/ Ordinary domestic MCBs work down to 12V. http://www.global-download.schneider-electric.com/852575770039EC5E/all/3C7884C29910B3CC852575B7006577BC/$File/multi_9_mcb_application_guide.pdf page 5. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] missing man 9 hal
On Saturday 08 December 2012 18:47:46 andy pugh did opine: On 8 December 2012 21:25, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: What we need is a short man page that describes the syntax of the various first word of a line settings, loadrt, addf, setp, net, etc. man halcmd. OK, so you actually have to be psychic to guess that. Chuckle a VBG, Andy. I have in the past, been accused of similar attributes, like walking on water, and possibly psychic by those who will never have anything apart and spread all over the bench, but that was because I could do that stuff by rote, almost in my sleep having already done it many times. Familiarity with some of that stuff leads to wonderment if someone watching has never seen it before, when I reach over and pull a part out and warm up the iron while taking the last few screws out of a pcb cover, just because I already know to a 95% certainty, what part I am going to change before the pcb has been pulled put in a work holder on the bench. Camera lenses are a mystery to most, but I hired an assistant, quite a few years back to do some of the repetitive PM tasks, and as I was re-assembling a damaged lens from a news camera, he asked me how I could sit so low in that chair I replied huh? and he said how can you sit that low with cajones as obviously big as I had to have to do something like that. To me it was a shrug, having done it dozens of times before. But it does feel nice to be able to impress the frogs so easily. ;-) I have had a voltmeter probe in one hand since '47, a scope probe largely replaced it in '51, and a hot soldering tool in the other since late '47, but now the short term memory is going to hell in a hand basket. So I have to print this stuff if I want to re-study it tomorrow while standing in my shop in front of the machine in 40F weather. Sad state of affairs to me, and I thank all of you for tolerating it. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! Keep emotionally active. Cater to your favorite neurosis. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On Saturday 08 December 2012 19:19:02 andy pugh did opine: On 8 December 2012 23:33, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: I could work on this a bit more intelligently if I drilled out a 5x20 fuse and the holder cap http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/fuses-sockets-circuit-breakers/fuses-pcb/r esettable-wire-ended-fuses/ Thanks for the leg work Andy, this one looks interesting until you plug in the fuses amperage, 3.2 amps, find they only have one device, rated (72 volts) at half the voltage needed since its in the nominally 127 volt line cord path. How much more one could safely ask the controller for I have no clue, but at $135/copy, I don't really want to find it cannot tolerate a 4 amp fuse. So I've been blowing (fast blow) the next smaller fuse, a 3.0 amp. Ordinary domestic MCBs work down to 12V. http://www.global-download.schneider-electric.com/852575770039EC5E/all/3 C7884C29910B3CC852575B7006577BC/$File/multi_9_mcb_application_guide.pdf page 5. Physically too big for the box. Darn it. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! The existence of god implies a violation of causality. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On 9 December 2012 00:26, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Ordinary domestic MCBs work down to 12V. http://www.global-download.schneider-electric.com/852575770039EC5E/all/3 C7884C29910B3CC852575B7006577BC/$File/multi_9_mcb_application_guide.pdf page 5. Physically too big for the box. Darn it. I suspect that there isn't much inside. I have certainly seen rather smaller ones for older-style distribution boxes. What is commonly used in the US for domestic circuit-breaking? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On 9 December 2012 01:06, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: push button reset thermal gizmo's with a tolerance and repeatability that are horrifyingly sloppy. Thermal or thermal/magnetic? An MCB ought to be able to do the job, even if you dismantle it to make the useful parts fit (though they normally include things like a chimney and an arc-extinguisher) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On 9 December 2012 01:12, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: An MCB ought to be able to do the job, even if you dismantle it to make the useful parts fit (though they normally include things like a chimney and an arc-extinguisher) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Circuitbreaker.jpg Seems to have both a long-term overload (bimetallic strip) and a short term (solenoid) breaker. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On Saturday 08 December 2012 20:19:14 andy pugh did opine: On 9 December 2012 01:06, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: push button reset thermal gizmo's with a tolerance and repeatability that are horrifyingly sloppy. Thermal or thermal/magnetic? My guess is pure thermal, heavily overloaded response times are still in the hundreds of milliseconds. An MCB ought to be able to do the job, even if you dismantle it to make the useful parts fit (though they normally include things like a chimney and an arc-extinguisher) Both should be a 100% requirement. Having seen the fire rolling across the floor from a GE AK-225 interrupting a 400 amp/phase 230 delta circuit when I tested it without the arc quenchers mounted, was, shall we say, educational. Those arc quencher cages actually work! ;-) Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! BOFH excuse #11: magnetic interference from money/credit cards I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On Saturday 08 December 2012 20:25:47 andy pugh did opine: On 9 December 2012 01:12, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: An MCB ought to be able to do the job, even if you dismantle it to make the useful parts fit (though they normally include things like a chimney and an arc-extinguisher) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Circuitbreaker.jpg Seems to have both a long-term overload (bimetallic strip) and a short term (solenoid) breaker. Breakers like that internally, but fitting our usual Square-D service panel, are about $30 USD at Lowes. I don't believe there is a gross difference in the size though. But those will have clips to straddle the bus-bar, and only a screw terminal on the output side. And they start at 10 amps IIRC. Without the magnetic, about 8 or 9 USD. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! BOFH excuse #143: had to use hammer to free stuck disk drive heads. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
Gene, You can get aircraft breakers, designed for 32 V DC, and some are quite small. They have push/pull kinds that pop out when tripped, and bat handle types used as on/off switches, too. New can be expensive, but they may be available on the surplus market. I have a few. Jon -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On Saturday 08 December 2012 23:49:28 Jon Elson did opine: Gene, You can get aircraft breakers, designed for 32 V DC, and some are quite small. They have push/pull kinds that pop out when tripped, and bat handle types used as on/off switches, too. New can be expensive, but they may be available on the surplus market. I have a few. Jon That too might be a possibility, but not until I have explored the options for some sort of an excessive pid.error out shutdown that works fast enough to save the fuse 90% or more of the time. My previous lashup using comp worked well about 75% of the time. OTOH, tripping a breaker the first 100 times is generally free. Once the breaker has been paid for... And at this current level, it really should last a lot longer than that. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! Work expands to fill the time available. -- Cyril Northcote Parkinson, The Economist, 1955 I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] My electronic fuse, using the comp(are) module
On Sat, 2012-12-08 at 23:56 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Saturday 08 December 2012 23:49:28 Jon Elson did opine: Gene, You can get aircraft breakers, designed for 32 V DC, and some are quite small. They have push/pull kinds that pop out when tripped, and bat handle types used as on/off switches, too. New can be expensive, but they may be available on the surplus market. I have a few. Jon That too might be a possibility, but not until I have explored the options for some sort of an excessive pid.error out shutdown that works fast enough to save the fuse 90% or more of the time. My previous lashup using comp worked well about 75% of the time. OTOH, tripping a breaker the first 100 times is generally free. Once the breaker has been paid for... And at this current level, it really should last a lot longer than that. Cheers, Gene Many years ago I was using a Heinemann magnetic breaker in series with an I^2R fuse to protect a pair of SCR's. On a fault the breaker always beat the fuse thereby saving rather expensive fuses. Dave -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
