Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I use glue stick then gently wipe it around with a damp paper towel to smooth 
it before I start the printer. The heating bed dries the glue.

On Sunday, August 2, 2020, 1:15:33 PM MDT, Bruce Layne 
 wrote: 
On 8/2/20 2:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> One the right in particular, there is no room for anything. About 1mm 
> clearance between the plate and the upright carrying the PSU too.

It's usually possible to pinch the wire handle on a bulldog clip and
lift the compressed handle out of the spring steel clip once it's
installed for a minimal clearance clip, although the curved back on the
spring steel will probably protrude more than 1mm.

> But now its slightly 
> cloudy with dried white school glue & lots of water mixed, so we'll see 
> how the adhesion works.

Based on my experience, the adhesion will be terrible.  I tested white
Elmer's Glue-All and white Elmer's washable school glue and both
provided terrible ABS adhesion on glass.  The only glue that's worked
well for me is glue stick.  As I've repeatedly mentioned in this ongoing
3D printing discussion, I use Elmer's X-Treme glue stick.  The thinnest
possible application directly to glass (applied with a pound or more of
normal force to a cold glass plate, with a slow steady motion) works
well, but even better is a small smudge of glue on the glass plate with
a few grams of water, evenly distributed across the glass plate to form
a nearly invisible glue film when dried.  
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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Put the glass on and try a small test print to see what, if any, effect it has. 

On Sunday, August 2, 2020, 9:02:42 AM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
 Greetings all;

Several question mark below.

Those glass plates for my ender-3 Pro's build plate use have arrived, and 
I'm somewhat taken aback by the mass of a 230x230mm by 4mm piece of 
glass. This at least doubles, likely more, the weight the y motor has to 
manhandle, in my mind affecting the ballistics of its movement. No glass 
clips or instructions came with it although the glass was packed to 
survive a tactical nuke, So I'll raid the laundry room for some spring 
clothes pins. Plastic, lighter than the old wooden ones, but I stuck a 
couple on the front of the bed and the heat isn't bothering them.

The stock Merlin driver has some adjustments for both acceleration and 
jerk. Accel is currently set at 500, sounds pretty instant to me and 
jerk is set at 8 but thats a new term for me and I have no idea of how a 
change to that effects the machine.

Given the increased mass to move, is it even possible to keep the working 
velocities at the currently set values, or is there a way to determine 
what is optimum for this added mass it has to move?

I'm assuming changes in the ballistics would have to be set in the x axis 
at the same time to keep it from bending corners.

Or, would I be better off spending the sheckles for one of the improved 
32 bit driver boards I see being offered? Power supply might come into 
play too as its only 24 volts now, which will effect its accel and 
ballistics envelope too.

Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
  
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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 02 August 2020 19:48:25 Chris Albertson wrote:

> When Amazon starts their drone delivery I think I will even order
> stuff I have no use for (Children's shoes?) just so I can watch the
> drone fly in and drop the box.
>
> Which glue matters.  I bought a few different brands at the dollar
> store and found "Avon" brand is the best of the brands they cary and
> the off-brands don't work.Printers are very picky and my printer
> might like a brand of glue yours don't. I have yet to try water
> soluble hair spray on glass.   I 100% recommend Amazon Prime.  Where I
> live it is mostly free next day delivery.
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 2:46 PM Bruce Layne
> 
>
> wrote:
> > Gene:  Send me your USPS address and I'll mail you a free glue stick
> > that's 99.44% coronavirus free. :-)
> >
> > Or buy a glue stick on Amazon.
> >
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/Elmers-Strength-Washable-1-4-Ounces-E590/dp/B
> >008M56Z0O
> >
> > Coronavirus not withstanding, it's seldom worth me making a 15
> > minute trip to buy something like this when I can buy it online in a
> > minute and it's at my door a day or two later.  Can't wait for
> > Amazon Prime drone delivery in 20 minutes.

TANSTAAFL.

> > Use a nylon bristle brush to distribute the tiny bit of glue stick
> > and water on the glass plate, immediately before printing.  I think
> > the scrubbing of fresh glue and water results in a high surface
> > energy that's needed for a good bond.

I just stopped it before it was done with the first layer, set the 
extruder up 3 whole numbers, slid the putty knife under what was there 
and raised the glass about 1/6 turn of the wheels, and it is still 
laying individual strings on the first layer that I can see between.  So 
I've raised it about 1/12 of a turn more, but its up to .36mm before it 
looks solid. Before I start the last cap, I'll turn the extruder up 2 
more whole points to see if it lays a wide enough strip to touch its 
neighbors.  I think the glass, despite being at 73C as a starting temp, 
is still too cold to let the hot plastic squeeze out to touch its 
neighbors. I didn't re-arrange the glue but its sticking well anyway, 
strand by strand is laying exactly where its laid.   And easier to 
remove.

Progress. I think.

> > The white glue experiments I tried resulted in something analogous
> > to a slick non-stick surface.  I was surprised by that.  It may have
> > been the result of the 110C bed temperature I was using for ABS.  I
> > didn't try it with PLA or TPU.  It failed with ABS and that's all I
> > needed to know. The glue stick and water works very well for ABS,
> > PLA and TPU.
> >
> > I hope you enjoy glass & glue stick 3D printing as much as I do. 
> > The trick is to get good adhesion to a hot bed and good release from
> > a cold bed so there are no failed prints and no need to hack and pry
> > the part off the build plate that results in a loss of bed level
> > that causes subsequent prints to fail and possible damage to the
> > printer... or at least damage and degradation to a plastic build
> > surface.  3D printing requires some patience because it's slow, but
> > it shouldn't require much labor and the process should be repeatable
> > and reliable.  That's definitely an attainable goal, because I'm
> > doing it.
> >
> > Others have already done a lot of 3D printing process development. 
> > It's inefficient and frustrating to ignore the work of others and
> > repeat the painstaking development yourself.  At this point, most
> > people buy a cheap 3D printer from a known good source (Sainsmart
> > should have been good to go), watch a few YouTube videos, and have
> > reasonable success out of the starting gate.  It's been painful for
> > me to see you struggling with this.
> >
> > On 8/2/20 4:28 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Sunday 02 August 2020 15:12:39 Bruce Layne wrote:
> > >> On 8/2/20 2:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >>> One the right in particular, there is no room for anything.
> > >>> About 1mm clearance between the plate and the upright carrying
> > >>> the PSU too.
> > >>
> > >> It's usually possible to pinch the wire handle on a bulldog clip
> > >> and lift the compressed handle out of the spring steel clip once
> > >> it's installed for a minimal clearance clip, although the curved
> > >> back on the spring steel will probably protrude more than 1mm.
> > >>
> > >>> But now its slightly
> > >>> cloudy with dried white school glue & lots of water mixed, so
> > >>> we'll see how the adhesion works.
> > >>
> > >> Based on my experience, the adhesion will be terrible.  I tested
> > >> white Elmer's Glue-All and white Elmer's washable school glue and
> > >> both provided terrible ABS adhesion on glass.  The only glue
> > >> that's worked well for me is glue stick.  As I've repeatedly
> > >> mentioned in this ongoing 3D printing discussion, I use Elmer's
> > >> X-Treme glue stick.  The thinnest possible application directly
> > >> to glass (applied with a pound or more 

Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Chris Albertson]

When Amazon starts their drone delivery I think I will even order stuff I
have no use for (Children's shoes?) just so I can watch the drone fly in
and drop the box.

Which glue matters.  I bought a few different brands at the dollar store
and found "Avon" brand is the best of the brands they cary and the
off-brands don't work.Printers are very picky and my printer might like
a brand of glue yours don't. I have yet to try water soluble hair spray
on glass.   I 100% recommend Amazon Prime.  Where I live it is mostly free
next day delivery.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 2:46 PM Bruce Layne 
wrote:

> Gene:  Send me your USPS address and I'll mail you a free glue stick
> that's 99.44% coronavirus free. :-)
>
> Or buy a glue stick on Amazon.
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Elmers-Strength-Washable-1-4-Ounces-E590/dp/B008M56Z0O
>
> Coronavirus not withstanding, it's seldom worth me making a 15 minute
> trip to buy something like this when I can buy it online in a minute and
> it's at my door a day or two later.  Can't wait for Amazon Prime drone
> delivery in 20 minutes.
>
> Use a nylon bristle brush to distribute the tiny bit of glue stick and
> water on the glass plate, immediately before printing.  I think the
> scrubbing of fresh glue and water results in a high surface energy
> that's needed for a good bond.
>
> The white glue experiments I tried resulted in something analogous to a
> slick non-stick surface.  I was surprised by that.  It may have been the
> result of the 110C bed temperature I was using for ABS.  I didn't try it
> with PLA or TPU.  It failed with ABS and that's all I needed to know.
> The glue stick and water works very well for ABS, PLA and TPU.
>
> I hope you enjoy glass & glue stick 3D printing as much as I do.  The
> trick is to get good adhesion to a hot bed and good release from a cold
> bed so there are no failed prints and no need to hack and pry the part
> off the build plate that results in a loss of bed level that causes
> subsequent prints to fail and possible damage to the printer... or at
> least damage and degradation to a plastic build surface.  3D printing
> requires some patience because it's slow, but it shouldn't require much
> labor and the process should be repeatable and reliable.  That's
> definitely an attainable goal, because I'm doing it.
>
> Others have already done a lot of 3D printing process development.  It's
> inefficient and frustrating to ignore the work of others and repeat the
> painstaking development yourself.  At this point, most people buy a
> cheap 3D printer from a known good source (Sainsmart should have been
> good to go), watch a few YouTube videos, and have reasonable success out
> of the starting gate.  It's been painful for me to see you struggling
> with this.
>
>
>
>
> On 8/2/20 4:28 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 02 August 2020 15:12:39 Bruce Layne wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/2/20 2:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> One the right in particular, there is no room for anything. About
> >>> 1mm clearance between the plate and the upright carrying the PSU
> >>> too.
> >> It's usually possible to pinch the wire handle on a bulldog clip and
> >> lift the compressed handle out of the spring steel clip once it's
> >> installed for a minimal clearance clip, although the curved back on
> >> the spring steel will probably protrude more than 1mm.
> >>
> >>> But now its slightly
> >>> cloudy with dried white school glue & lots of water mixed, so we'll
> >>> see how the adhesion works.
> >> Based on my experience, the adhesion will be terrible.  I tested white
> >> Elmer's Glue-All and white Elmer's washable school glue and both
> >> provided terrible ABS adhesion on glass.  The only glue that's worked
> >> well for me is glue stick.  As I've repeatedly mentioned in this
> >> ongoing 3D printing discussion, I use Elmer's X-Treme glue stick.  The
> >> thinnest possible application directly to glass (applied with a pound
> >> or more of normal force to a cold glass plate, with a slow steady
> >> motion) works well, but even better is a small smudge of glue on the
> >> glass plate with a few grams of water, evenly distributed across the
> >> glass plate to form a nearly invisible glue film when dried.
> >>
> > I have not "been to town" with a mask to get any of that. This was a
> > small bottle of craft glue a good 15 yo I add an inch of water to and
> > shook like a rattle gun paint can to get a wee bit of glue dissolved
> > into the water.  Mowing the grass, otherwise staying safe and out of
> > sight here at the house. The Elmers is probably at CVS. This looks like
> > heck but its sticking well after about 3 turns of the brim laydown.  The
> > initial clear the nozzle by running up and back on the left edge of the
> > plate also stuck to clean glass, very close to as well as it stuck to
> > the magnetic sign mat it came with. From that, I think clean glass is
> > all it needs. OOTB and plastic wrap, it acted like it was waxed & water
> > just pooled 

Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 02 August 2020 17:43:59 Bruce Layne wrote:

> Gene:  Send me your USPS address and I'll mail you a free glue stick
> that's 99.44% coronavirus free. :-)
>
> Or buy a glue stick on Amazon.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Elmers-Strength-Washable-1-4-Ounces-E590/dp/B00
>8M56Z0O
>
> Coronavirus not withstanding, it's seldom worth me making a 15 minute
> trip to buy something like this when I can buy it online in a minute
> and it's at my door a day or two later.  Can't wait for Amazon Prime
> drone delivery in 20 minutes.
>
> Use a nylon bristle brush to distribute the tiny bit of glue stick and
> water on the glass plate, immediately before printing.  I think the
> scrubbing of fresh glue and water results in a high surface energy
> that's needed for a good bond.
>
> The white glue experiments I tried resulted in something analogous to
> a slick non-stick surface.  I was surprised by that.  It may have been
> the result of the 110C bed temperature I was using for ABS.  I didn't
> try it with PLA or TPU.  It failed with ABS and that's all I needed to
> know. The glue stick and water works very well for ABS, PLA and TPU.
>
> I hope you enjoy glass & glue stick 3D printing as much as I do.  The
> trick is to get good adhesion to a hot bed and good release from a
> cold bed so there are no failed prints and no need to hack and pry the
> part off the build plate that results in a loss of bed level that
> causes subsequent prints to fail and possible damage to the printer...
> or at least damage and degradation to a plastic build surface.  3D
> printing requires some patience because it's slow, but it shouldn't
> require much labor and the process should be repeatable and reliable. 
> That's definitely an attainable goal, because I'm doing it.
>
> Others have already done a lot of 3D printing process development. 
> It's inefficient and frustrating to ignore the work of others and
> repeat the painstaking development yourself.  At this point, most
> people buy a cheap 3D printer from a known good source (Sainsmart
> should have been good to go),

That is what this one is!  And it was AFU OOTB. 

> watch a few YouTube videos, and have 
> reasonable success out of the starting gate.  It's been painful for me
> to see you struggling with this.
>
Sorry, I didn't mean to be such a klutz. I'll see if I can hit someplace 
and get the right stuff on my way home tom. afternoon since I've got to 
be out anyway.


> On 8/2/20 4:28 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 02 August 2020 15:12:39 Bruce Layne wrote:
> >> On 8/2/20 2:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> One the right in particular, there is no room for anything. About
> >>> 1mm clearance between the plate and the upright carrying the PSU
> >>> too.
> >>
> >> It's usually possible to pinch the wire handle on a bulldog clip
> >> and lift the compressed handle out of the spring steel clip once
> >> it's installed for a minimal clearance clip, although the curved
> >> back on the spring steel will probably protrude more than 1mm.
> >>
> >>> But now its slightly
> >>> cloudy with dried white school glue & lots of water mixed, so
> >>> we'll see how the adhesion works.
> >>
> >> Based on my experience, the adhesion will be terrible.  I tested
> >> white Elmer's Glue-All and white Elmer's washable school glue and
> >> both provided terrible ABS adhesion on glass.  The only glue that's
> >> worked well for me is glue stick.  As I've repeatedly mentioned in
> >> this ongoing 3D printing discussion, I use Elmer's X-Treme glue
> >> stick.  The thinnest possible application directly to glass
> >> (applied with a pound or more of normal force to a cold glass
> >> plate, with a slow steady motion) works well, but even better is a
> >> small smudge of glue on the glass plate with a few grams of water,
> >> evenly distributed across the glass plate to form a nearly
> >> invisible glue film when dried.
> >
> > I have not "been to town" with a mask to get any of that. This was a
> > small bottle of craft glue a good 15 yo I add an inch of water to
> > and shook like a rattle gun paint can to get a wee bit of glue
> > dissolved into the water.  Mowing the grass, otherwise staying safe
> > and out of sight here at the house. The Elmers is probably at CVS.
> > This looks like heck but its sticking well after about 3 turns of
> > the brim laydown.  The initial clear the nozzle by running up and
> > back on the left edge of the plate also stuck to clean glass, very
> > close to as well as it stuck to the magnetic sign mat it came with.
> > From that, I think clean glass is all it needs. OOTB and plastic
> > wrap, it acted like it was waxed & water just pooled on it.  Like a
> > freshly waxed car.  This part is only about 4 hours, its other
> > mating half is about 8 or 9 cuz its taller and I need 3 of each yet.
> >
> > Thanks Bruce.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
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> 

Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Bruce Layne]

Gene:  Send me your USPS address and I'll mail you a free glue stick
that's 99.44% coronavirus free. :-)

Or buy a glue stick on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Elmers-Strength-Washable-1-4-Ounces-E590/dp/B008M56Z0O

Coronavirus not withstanding, it's seldom worth me making a 15 minute
trip to buy something like this when I can buy it online in a minute and
it's at my door a day or two later.  Can't wait for Amazon Prime drone
delivery in 20 minutes.

Use a nylon bristle brush to distribute the tiny bit of glue stick and
water on the glass plate, immediately before printing.  I think the
scrubbing of fresh glue and water results in a high surface energy
that's needed for a good bond.

The white glue experiments I tried resulted in something analogous to a
slick non-stick surface.  I was surprised by that.  It may have been the
result of the 110C bed temperature I was using for ABS.  I didn't try it
with PLA or TPU.  It failed with ABS and that's all I needed to know. 
The glue stick and water works very well for ABS, PLA and TPU.

I hope you enjoy glass & glue stick 3D printing as much as I do.  The
trick is to get good adhesion to a hot bed and good release from a cold
bed so there are no failed prints and no need to hack and pry the part
off the build plate that results in a loss of bed level that causes
subsequent prints to fail and possible damage to the printer... or at
least damage and degradation to a plastic build surface.  3D printing
requires some patience because it's slow, but it shouldn't require much
labor and the process should be repeatable and reliable.  That's
definitely an attainable goal, because I'm doing it.

Others have already done a lot of 3D printing process development.  It's
inefficient and frustrating to ignore the work of others and repeat the
painstaking development yourself.  At this point, most people buy a
cheap 3D printer from a known good source (Sainsmart should have been
good to go), watch a few YouTube videos, and have reasonable success out
of the starting gate.  It's been painful for me to see you struggling
with this.




On 8/2/20 4:28 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 02 August 2020 15:12:39 Bruce Layne wrote:
>
>> On 8/2/20 2:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> One the right in particular, there is no room for anything. About
>>> 1mm clearance between the plate and the upright carrying the PSU
>>> too.
>> It's usually possible to pinch the wire handle on a bulldog clip and
>> lift the compressed handle out of the spring steel clip once it's
>> installed for a minimal clearance clip, although the curved back on
>> the spring steel will probably protrude more than 1mm.
>>
>>> But now its slightly
>>> cloudy with dried white school glue & lots of water mixed, so we'll
>>> see how the adhesion works.
>> Based on my experience, the adhesion will be terrible.  I tested white
>> Elmer's Glue-All and white Elmer's washable school glue and both
>> provided terrible ABS adhesion on glass.  The only glue that's worked
>> well for me is glue stick.  As I've repeatedly mentioned in this
>> ongoing 3D printing discussion, I use Elmer's X-Treme glue stick.  The
>> thinnest possible application directly to glass (applied with a pound
>> or more of normal force to a cold glass plate, with a slow steady
>> motion) works well, but even better is a small smudge of glue on the
>> glass plate with a few grams of water, evenly distributed across the
>> glass plate to form a nearly invisible glue film when dried.
>>
> I have not "been to town" with a mask to get any of that. This was a 
> small bottle of craft glue a good 15 yo I add an inch of water to and 
> shook like a rattle gun paint can to get a wee bit of glue dissolved 
> into the water.  Mowing the grass, otherwise staying safe and out of 
> sight here at the house. The Elmers is probably at CVS. This looks like 
> heck but its sticking well after about 3 turns of the brim laydown.  The 
> initial clear the nozzle by running up and back on the left edge of the 
> plate also stuck to clean glass, very close to as well as it stuck to 
> the magnetic sign mat it came with. From that, I think clean glass is 
> all it needs. OOTB and plastic wrap, it acted like it was waxed & water 
> just pooled on it.  Like a freshly waxed car.  This part is only about 4 
> hours, its other mating half is about 8 or 9 cuz its taller and I need 3 
> of each yet.
>
> Thanks Bruce.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 02 August 2020 15:12:39 Bruce Layne wrote:

> On 8/2/20 2:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > One the right in particular, there is no room for anything. About
> > 1mm clearance between the plate and the upright carrying the PSU
> > too.
>
> It's usually possible to pinch the wire handle on a bulldog clip and
> lift the compressed handle out of the spring steel clip once it's
> installed for a minimal clearance clip, although the curved back on
> the spring steel will probably protrude more than 1mm.
>
> > But now its slightly
> > cloudy with dried white school glue & lots of water mixed, so we'll
> > see how the adhesion works.
>
> Based on my experience, the adhesion will be terrible.  I tested white
> Elmer's Glue-All and white Elmer's washable school glue and both
> provided terrible ABS adhesion on glass.  The only glue that's worked
> well for me is glue stick.  As I've repeatedly mentioned in this
> ongoing 3D printing discussion, I use Elmer's X-Treme glue stick.  The
> thinnest possible application directly to glass (applied with a pound
> or more of normal force to a cold glass plate, with a slow steady
> motion) works well, but even better is a small smudge of glue on the
> glass plate with a few grams of water, evenly distributed across the
> glass plate to form a nearly invisible glue film when dried.
>
I have not "been to town" with a mask to get any of that. This was a 
small bottle of craft glue a good 15 yo I add an inch of water to and 
shook like a rattle gun paint can to get a wee bit of glue dissolved 
into the water.  Mowing the grass, otherwise staying safe and out of 
sight here at the house. The Elmers is probably at CVS. This looks like 
heck but its sticking well after about 3 turns of the brim laydown.  The 
initial clear the nozzle by running up and back on the left edge of the 
plate also stuck to clean glass, very close to as well as it stuck to 
the magnetic sign mat it came with. From that, I think clean glass is 
all it needs. OOTB and plastic wrap, it acted like it was waxed & water 
just pooled on it.  Like a freshly waxed car.  This part is only about 4 
hours, its other mating half is about 8 or 9 cuz its taller and I need 3 
of each yet.

Thanks Bruce.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Bruce Layne]

On 8/2/20 2:43 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> One the right in particular, there is no room for anything. About 1mm 
> clearance between the plate and the upright carrying the PSU too.

It's usually possible to pinch the wire handle on a bulldog clip and
lift the compressed handle out of the spring steel clip once it's
installed for a minimal clearance clip, although the curved back on the
spring steel will probably protrude more than 1mm.



> But now its slightly 
> cloudy with dried white school glue & lots of water mixed, so we'll see 
> how the adhesion works.

Based on my experience, the adhesion will be terrible.  I tested white
Elmer's Glue-All and white Elmer's washable school glue and both
provided terrible ABS adhesion on glass.  The only glue that's worked
well for me is glue stick.  As I've repeatedly mentioned in this ongoing
3D printing discussion, I use Elmer's X-Treme glue stick.  The thinnest
possible application directly to glass (applied with a pound or more of
normal force to a cold glass plate, with a slow steady motion) works
well, but even better is a small smudge of glue on the glass plate with
a few grams of water, evenly distributed across the glass plate to form
a nearly invisible glue film when dried.






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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 02 August 2020 14:07:17 Marcus Bowman wrote:

> > On Sunday 02 August 2020 13:32:03 Bruce Layne wrote:
> >> I'd 3D print some low profile clips for the glass plate
>
> I used Bulldog clips. I cut the handles short on to of them, to stop
> them fouling the uprights as the platform passes through. Basically, I
> used 1 clip per side. Works fine.

One the right in particular, there is no room for anything. About 1mm 
clearance between the plate and the upright carrying the PSU too.  Since 
y is the only thing that moves the glass, std pinch clothes pins have 
plenty of room fore and aft. 2, maybe 3 on the rear, and one or 2 on the 
front but keeping the left front corner clear should clear the initial 
head motions.

> >> My 3D printers were fine with no retuning after I added some thick
> >> borosilicate glass,
>
> Mine too.
>
I suspect at the speeds I have it running, 30 ipm or less, it will not be 
a problem. I scrubbed the glass with bar keepers friend as it wasn't 
taking water at all well, like it was waxed or??? But now its slightly 
cloudy with dried white school glue & lots of water mixed, so we'll see 
how the adhesion works. In about an hour as the last big part is about 
85% done. I found I can't expand the bearing carriers enough for full 
engagement as the short plugins have expanded too much to fit in the 
bearings bore. That means I need to shrink the internal gear around 
1.5mm if I want the bearings to give full engagement, then I still need 
to expand the flexgear so the bearing don't have to distort it near as 
much, currently the teeth are clearing each other at the hop-over point 
by nearly 2mm, way to much flex on the gear. All they really need to do 
is to clear, and this is a case where microns are all thats needed.  
More than that is just backlash.

> >>   I think
> >> these glass bed upgrades are usually done without changing the
> >> motor parameters.
>
> That's what I did --- nothing at all. Works fine.
>
> Marcus

Thanks Marcus.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Marcus Bowman]

> On Sunday 02 August 2020 13:32:03 Bruce Layne wrote:
> 
>> I'd 3D print some low profile clips for the glass plate

I used Bulldog clips. I cut the handles short on to of them, to stop them 
fouling the uprights as the platform passes through. Basically, I used 1 clip 
per side. Works fine.

>> 
>> 
>> My 3D printers were fine with no retuning after I added some thick
>> borosilicate glass,

Mine too.

>>   I think
>> these glass bed upgrades are usually done without changing the motor
>> parameters.

That's what I did --- nothing at all. Works fine.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 02 August 2020 13:32:03 Bruce Layne wrote:

> I'd 3D print some low profile clips for the glass plate, or (my
> preference) use high temperature double sided adhesive to secure the
> glass plate to the print bed.  I initially thought I'd be swapping
> glass beds between prints, but in practice, I prefer having the glass
> bed fixed to the printer.  KISS.  I'd need to wait for the glass bed
> to heat so I wouldn't save much time by avoiding the cool down phase,
> and handling a hot glass plate and swapping glass beds in general
> sounds goofy to me.  I'd eliminate the clothes pins or binder clips
> ASAP.  It's much better to have nothing sticking up where the nozzle
> can crash into it.
>
> My 3D printers were fine with no retuning after I added some thick
> borosilicate glass, but my printers only move the bed vertically in
> .2mm steps when printing.  The X and Y stages are suspended above,
> running on linear guide rods.  If you were concerned about altered
> acceleration on your Ender 3 clone, I'd try printing two small test
> cubes, separated by 100mm in the Y direction, at 10% higher speed than
> you'd usually use. If the acceleration was too much for the stepper
> motors or the print quality was adversely impacted by the momentum of
> the added mass, only then would I try to reduce the acceleration.  I'm
> too old to fix problems that don't exist or otherwise looking for
> dragons to slay.

True here too, but I've never had dragon for dinner Bruce, it might be 
good eating. ;-)

> In practice, there is a high gear ratio so the 3D printer doesn't need
> much torque, and most of the torque requirements are when the motors
> are at low RPM where stepper motors have their most torque.  I think
> these glass bed upgrades are usually done without changing the motor
> parameters.
>
> On 8/2/20 10:59 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Several question mark below.
> >
> > Those glass plates for my ender-3 Pro's build plate use have
> > arrived, and I'm somewhat taken aback by the mass of a 230x230mm by
> > 4mm piece of glass. This at least doubles, likely more, the weight
> > the y motor has to manhandle, in my mind affecting the ballistics of
> > its movement. No glass clips or instructions came with it although
> > the glass was packed to survive a tactical nuke, So I'll raid the
> > laundry room for some spring clothes pins. Plastic, lighter than the
> > old wooden ones, but I stuck a couple on the front of the bed and
> > the heat isn't bothering them.
> >
> > The stock Merlin driver has some adjustments for both acceleration
> > and jerk. Accel is currently set at 500, sounds pretty instant to me
> > and jerk is set at 8 but thats a new term for me and I have no idea
> > of how a change to that effects the machine.
> >
> > Given the increased mass to move, is it even possible to keep the
> > working velocities at the currently set values, or is there a way to
> > determine what is optimum for this added mass it has to move?
> >
> > I'm assuming changes in the ballistics would have to be set in the x
> > axis at the same time to keep it from bending corners.
> >
> > Or, would I be better off spending the sheckles for one of the
> > improved 32 bit driver boards I see being offered? Power supply
> > might come into play too as its only 24 volts now, which will effect
> > its accel and ballistics envelope too.
> >
> > Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Bruce Layne]

I'd 3D print some low profile clips for the glass plate, or (my
preference) use high temperature double sided adhesive to secure the
glass plate to the print bed.  I initially thought I'd be swapping glass
beds between prints, but in practice, I prefer having the glass bed
fixed to the printer.  KISS.  I'd need to wait for the glass bed to heat
so I wouldn't save much time by avoiding the cool down phase, and
handling a hot glass plate and swapping glass beds in general sounds
goofy to me.  I'd eliminate the clothes pins or binder clips ASAP.  It's
much better to have nothing sticking up where the nozzle can crash into it.

My 3D printers were fine with no retuning after I added some thick
borosilicate glass, but my printers only move the bed vertically in .2mm
steps when printing.  The X and Y stages are suspended above, running on
linear guide rods.  If you were concerned about altered acceleration on
your Ender 3 clone, I'd try printing two small test cubes, separated by
100mm in the Y direction, at 10% higher speed than you'd usually use. 
If the acceleration was too much for the stepper motors or the print
quality was adversely impacted by the momentum of the added mass, only
then would I try to reduce the acceleration.  I'm too old to fix
problems that don't exist or otherwise looking for dragons to slay.

In practice, there is a high gear ratio so the 3D printer doesn't need
much torque, and most of the torque requirements are when the motors are
at low RPM where stepper motors have their most torque.  I think these
glass bed upgrades are usually done without changing the motor parameters.



On 8/2/20 10:59 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> Several question mark below.
>
> Those glass plates for my ender-3 Pro's build plate use have arrived, and 
> I'm somewhat taken aback by the mass of a 230x230mm by 4mm piece of 
> glass. This at least doubles, likely more, the weight the y motor has to 
> manhandle, in my mind affecting the ballistics of its movement. No glass 
> clips or instructions came with it although the glass was packed to 
> survive a tactical nuke, So I'll raid the laundry room for some spring 
> clothes pins. Plastic, lighter than the old wooden ones, but I stuck a 
> couple on the front of the bed and the heat isn't bothering them.
>
> The stock Merlin driver has some adjustments for both acceleration and 
> jerk. Accel is currently set at 500, sounds pretty instant to me and 
> jerk is set at 8 but thats a new term for me and I have no idea of how a 
> change to that effects the machine.
>
> Given the increased mass to move, is it even possible to keep the working 
> velocities at the currently set values, or is there a way to determine 
> what is optimum for this added mass it has to move?
>
> I'm assuming changes in the ballistics would have to be set in the x axis 
> at the same time to keep it from bending corners.
>
> Or, would I be better off spending the sheckles for one of the improved 
> 32 bit driver boards I see being offered? Power supply might come into 
> play too as its only 24 volts now, which will effect its accel and 
> ballistics envelope too.
>
> Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 02 August 2020 12:51:31 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Just print a test object.  If the motor misses steps you can hear it.
>
> Also, you can adjust the acceleration limit in Cura.  I think this is
> the best place to do it too.  In Cura you know what you are printing
> and can adjust based on the size of the part and if it is very tall or
> very wide
>
> The 32-bit board does not really address this problem.  What it mainly
> gives you is much more memory.   In Linux CNC we control what features
> are used by config and hal files.  But Merlin is configured at compile
> time. You can enable and disable features and set parameters on one of
> the dot.h files then you compile to binary and load in the flash ram. 
> On an 8-bit controller you run out of flash ram if you turn on
> everything.
>
> The big feature many people want that just might push them over the
> limit of an 8-bit controller is automatic bed leveling.  To use this
> you install a sensor on the print head that measures bed height and it
> probes the bed in a grid pattern.  But some of the features you don't
> need such as supporting different types of printers or dual extruder
> heads or filament break sensors, changing filaments and so on.   As
> long as you can run what you need there is not much gained by going
> with 32-bits.
>
Thanks Chris.

> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:02 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Several question mark below.
> >
> > Those glass plates for my ender-3 Pro's build plate use have
> > arrived, and I'm somewhat taken aback by the mass of a 230x230mm by
> > 4mm piece of glass. This at least doubles, likely more, the weight
> > the y motor has to manhandle, in my mind affecting the ballistics of
> > its movement. No glass clips or instructions came with it although
> > the glass was packed to survive a tactical nuke, So I'll raid the
> > laundry room for some spring clothes pins. Plastic, lighter than the
> > old wooden ones, but I stuck a couple on the front of the bed and
> > the heat isn't bothering them.
> >
> > The stock Merlin driver has some adjustments for both acceleration
> > and jerk. Accel is currently set at 500, sounds pretty instant to me
> > and jerk is set at 8 but thats a new term for me and I have no idea
> > of how a change to that effects the machine.
> >
> > Given the increased mass to move, is it even possible to keep the
> > working velocities at the currently set values, or is there a way to
> > determine what is optimum for this added mass it has to move?
> >
> > I'm assuming changes in the ballistics would have to be set in the x
> > axis at the same time to keep it from bending corners.
> >
> > Or, would I be better off spending the sheckles for one of the
> > improved 32 bit driver boards I see being offered? Power supply
> > might come into play too as its only 24 volts now, which will effect
> > its accel and ballistics envelope too.
> >
> > Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 02 August 2020 12:10:30 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> I’ll chime in with my 2 bits.
>
> One issue is whether the motors have enough torque to actually drive
> the load at the specified acceleration. You probably knew that. :)
> Maybe install the plate and strap a small weight to the glass to
> simulate a large print, and test it. Many of these printers use
> stepper drivers that are tunable, either via a small pot on the driver
> or via software. You might need to bump it up a bit if it loses steps.
> Also, if it uses the Pololu StepStick drivers, you can easily swap
> those out for something that can handle more current. I recommend
> Trinamic SilentStepStick.

I have not uncovered the driver board yet, but assume its some sort of an 
8 bit arduino based thing. It apparently senses, somehow, extruder jams 
as I have to remove the exit guide, feed it thru it and reinstall it to 
install/replace the PLA spool, as it misses the entrance and doesn't 
chew up the string by grinding on it, but backs away a mm or so and 
tries again. It was also set OOTB, to feed about 15mm of pla for a 100mm 
command, so I wasted half a roll making stuff you could see plumb thru.

Its all a new learning experience for an 85 yo ex television station 
engineer and CET. Who may have to learn freecad to optimize the 3 
harmonic drives I have under construction.

Thanks, I'll clothpin the glass to the bed, readjust the z home and see 
how the bearing carriers come out as I still have them to make yet at a 
slightly oversized scale, either that, or make 3 more of the internal 
splines at a reduced scale. Neither fits the other well in the design I 
got from thingiverse, leaving lots of backlash.

Thanks Thaddeus.

> https://www.trinamic.com/support/eval-kits/details/silentstepstick/

That doesn't appear to be a direct replacement for this one.

> Another issue is that with a change in mass you will see more
> resonance in the axis motion. This will show up as a wavy texture on
> planar faces near sharp corners, such as on a cube. The design of
> those printers is pretty smart, IMO, because they placed the large
> moving mass near the base of the printer. But they do need high
> acceleration to keep the head moving and they are built as cheaply as
> possible so ...
>
> > On Aug 2, 2020, at 9:59 AM, Gene Heskett 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Several question mark below.
> >
> > Those glass plates for my ender-3 Pro's build plate use have
> > arrived, and I'm somewhat taken aback by the mass of a 230x230mm by
> > 4mm piece of glass. This at least doubles, likely more, the weight
> > the y motor has to manhandle, in my mind affecting the ballistics of
> > its movement. No glass clips or instructions came with it although
> > the glass was packed to survive a tactical nuke, So I'll raid the
> > laundry room for some spring clothes pins. Plastic, lighter than the
> > old wooden ones, but I stuck a couple on the front of the bed and
> > the heat isn't bothering them.
> >
> > The stock Merlin driver has some adjustments for both acceleration
> > and jerk. Accel is currently set at 500, sounds pretty instant to me
> > and jerk is set at 8 but thats a new term for me and I have no idea
> > of how a change to that effects the machine.
> >
> > Given the increased mass to move, is it even possible to keep the
> > working velocities at the currently set values, or is there a way to
> > determine what is optimum for this added mass it has to move?
> >
> > I'm assuming changes in the ballistics would have to be set in the x
> > axis at the same time to keep it from bending corners.
> >
> > Or, would I be better off spending the sheckles for one of the
> > improved 32 bit driver boards I see being offered? Power supply
> > might come into play too as its only 24 volts now, which will effect
> > its accel and ballistics envelope too.
> >
> > Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Chris Albertson]

Just print a test object.  If the motor misses steps you can hear it.

Also, you can adjust the acceleration limit in Cura.  I think this is the
best place to do it too.  In Cura you know what you are printing and can
adjust based on the size of the part and if it is very tall or very wide

The 32-bit board does not really address this problem.  What it mainly
gives you is much more memory.   In Linux CNC we control what features are
used by config and hal files.  But Merlin is configured at compile time.
 You can enable and disable features and set parameters on one of the dot.h
files then you compile to binary and load in the flash ram.  On an 8-bit
controller you run out of flash ram if you turn on everything.

The big feature many people want that just might push them over the limit
of an 8-bit controller is automatic bed leveling.  To use this you install
a sensor on the print head that measures bed height and it probes the bed
in a grid pattern.  But some of the features you don't need such as
supporting different types of printers or dual extruder heads or filament
break sensors, changing filaments and so on.   As long as you can run what
you need there is not much gained by going with 32-bits.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:02 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> Several question mark below.
>
> Those glass plates for my ender-3 Pro's build plate use have arrived, and
> I'm somewhat taken aback by the mass of a 230x230mm by 4mm piece of
> glass. This at least doubles, likely more, the weight the y motor has to
> manhandle, in my mind affecting the ballistics of its movement. No glass
> clips or instructions came with it although the glass was packed to
> survive a tactical nuke, So I'll raid the laundry room for some spring
> clothes pins. Plastic, lighter than the old wooden ones, but I stuck a
> couple on the front of the bed and the heat isn't bothering them.
>
> The stock Merlin driver has some adjustments for both acceleration and
> jerk. Accel is currently set at 500, sounds pretty instant to me and
> jerk is set at 8 but thats a new term for me and I have no idea of how a
> change to that effects the machine.
>
> Given the increased mass to move, is it even possible to keep the working
> velocities at the currently set values, or is there a way to determine
> what is optimum for this added mass it has to move?
>
> I'm assuming changes in the ballistics would have to be set in the x axis
> at the same time to keep it from bending corners.
>
> Or, would I be better off spending the sheckles for one of the improved
> 32 bit driver boards I see being offered? Power supply might come into
> play too as its only 24 volts now, which will effect its accel and
> ballistics envelope too.
>
> Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Thaddeus Waldner]

I’ll chime in with my 2 bits. 

One issue is whether the motors have enough torque to actually drive the load 
at the specified acceleration. You probably knew that. :) Maybe install the 
plate and strap a small weight to the glass to simulate a large print, and test 
it. Many of these printers use stepper drivers that are tunable, either via a 
small pot on the driver or via software. You might need to bump it up a bit if 
it loses steps. Also, if it uses the Pololu StepStick drivers, you can easily 
swap those out for something that can handle more current. I recommend Trinamic 
SilentStepStick. 

https://www.trinamic.com/support/eval-kits/details/silentstepstick/

Another issue is that with a change in mass you will see more resonance in the 
axis motion. This will show up as a wavy texture on planar faces near sharp 
corners, such as on a cube. The design of those printers is pretty smart, IMO, 
because they placed the large moving mass near the base of the printer. But 
they do need high acceleration to keep the head moving and they are built as 
cheaply as possible so ...



> On Aug 2, 2020, at 9:59 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> Greetings all;
> 
> Several question mark below.
> 
> Those glass plates for my ender-3 Pro's build plate use have arrived, and 
> I'm somewhat taken aback by the mass of a 230x230mm by 4mm piece of 
> glass. This at least doubles, likely more, the weight the y motor has to 
> manhandle, in my mind affecting the ballistics of its movement. No glass 
> clips or instructions came with it although the glass was packed to 
> survive a tactical nuke, So I'll raid the laundry room for some spring 
> clothes pins. Plastic, lighter than the old wooden ones, but I stuck a 
> couple on the front of the bed and the heat isn't bothering them.
> 
> The stock Merlin driver has some adjustments for both acceleration and 
> jerk. Accel is currently set at 500, sounds pretty instant to me and 
> jerk is set at 8 but thats a new term for me and I have no idea of how a 
> change to that effects the machine.
> 
> Given the increased mass to move, is it even possible to keep the working 
> velocities at the currently set values, or is there a way to determine 
> what is optimum for this added mass it has to move?
> 
> I'm assuming changes in the ballistics would have to be set in the x axis 
> at the same time to keep it from bending corners.
> 
> Or, would I be better off spending the sheckles for one of the improved 
> 32 bit driver boards I see being offered? Power supply might come into 
> play too as its only 24 volts now, which will effect its accel and 
> ballistics envelope too.
> 
> Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Jon Elson]

On 08/01/2020 01:37 PM, Matthew Herd wrote:

Thanks Gene, I hope you’re well also.  I disconnected that grounding wire, no difference observed 
in the ppmc.0.encoder.03.index behavior.  The noise seems the same both when spindle is running and 
stopped, with a tendency strongly toward "true" than "false."  Pulses seem to 
be both long and short, but I’d guess they’re about 80-90% true.  Not at all what I’d expect, even 
with noise.


This does not make any sense at all.  The encoder.xx.index 
reports detecting a falling edge on the index (Z) input.  it 
is reset every time it is read.  Long true pulses mean it 
was triggered at least once every millisecond, ie. faster 
than the servo thread samples it.


So, the encoder.xx.index is NOT looking at the STATE of the 
Z input, but whether a high-to-low transition occurred since 
the last time it was read.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Jon Elson]

On 08/01/2020 11:10 AM, Matthew Herd wrote:

I'm still having issues with the rigid tapping.  It works sometimes and
fails other times.  After scoping the motion.spindle-revs, it appears to be
consistent with what we would expect aside from one possible issue.  The
spindle revs reset to zero upon G33.1 being called, then count up until
they stop, reverse, go negative past zero, then return to clockwise
motion.  However, on the second zero crossing (going positive) the revs go
positive, only to be reset to zero momentarily thereafter.  I'm not sure if
this is normal behavior or not.
I'm not exactly sure what you are describing here.  Most of 
it sounds normal, but I am not aware of a second cycle of 
the index sync function at the end of the G33.1   If you 
have a Halscope picture, that could be interesting to look at.

However, what isn't normal behavior is that the ppmc.0.encoder.03.index
value is loaded with noise.  Not occasional noise, but constantly
triggering in irregular intervals regardless of whether the spindle is
turning.  I'm baffled as to how this could be so noisy and was wondering
where you might look next.  Grounds look fine aside from the fact that the
control cabinet and the power cabinet have a ground wire connecting them in
addition to being grounded through the machine.  When removed from the USC
board, the index can be measured with a multimeter as the spindle is
rotated.  I forgot to bring my scope to the shop today (I didn't think I'd
need it) so I can't scope anything until tomorrow.  Is it possible there's
a pull-up resistor missing?

Well, the index is not actually used except once for each 
G33.1 operation, to start the spindle synch motion.  So, it 
is only important for multiple-pass threading.


But, note that while the A and B transitions are filtered by 
requiring a valid quadrature state transition, the index 
pulse is not.  Even a 10 ns wide dip from +5 to near ground 
will trigger the index logic.
What is the resting voltage of the index signal?  Does it 
need a pull-up resistor to +5 V?  The logic threshold is 2.5 
V.  The USC does NOT provide any pull-up resistor.  If your 
encoders need such, consult the encoder data sheet to 
determine what resistor value is best.


Jon


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[Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

Several question mark below.

Those glass plates for my ender-3 Pro's build plate use have arrived, and 
I'm somewhat taken aback by the mass of a 230x230mm by 4mm piece of 
glass. This at least doubles, likely more, the weight the y motor has to 
manhandle, in my mind affecting the ballistics of its movement. No glass 
clips or instructions came with it although the glass was packed to 
survive a tactical nuke, So I'll raid the laundry room for some spring 
clothes pins. Plastic, lighter than the old wooden ones, but I stuck a 
couple on the front of the bed and the heat isn't bothering them.

The stock Merlin driver has some adjustments for both acceleration and 
jerk. Accel is currently set at 500, sounds pretty instant to me and 
jerk is set at 8 but thats a new term for me and I have no idea of how a 
change to that effects the machine.

Given the increased mass to move, is it even possible to keep the working 
velocities at the currently set values, or is there a way to determine 
what is optimum for this added mass it has to move?

I'm assuming changes in the ballistics would have to be set in the x axis 
at the same time to keep it from bending corners.

Or, would I be better off spending the sheckles for one of the improved 
32 bit driver boards I see being offered? Power supply might come into 
play too as its only 24 volts now, which will effect its accel and 
ballistics envelope too.

Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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