Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Dave Cole]

I don't equate Google Plus with evil...  by a long shot.
And if you want to stay anonymous, it is not hard to setup a Google 
account with a screen name.
It is really simple to do.

Dave


On 1/9/2015 1:16 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 9 January 2015 at 18:05, Kirk Wallace  wrote:
>> Whatever happened to "Don't be evil".
> I don't think that they are actually being evil, just over-helpful and
> failing to consider the full effects of their changes.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[andy pugh]

On 9 January 2015 at 18:05, Kirk Wallace  wrote:
> Whatever happened to "Don't be evil".

I don't think that they are actually being evil, just over-helpful and
failing to consider the full effects of their changes.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Kirk Wallace]

On 01/09/2015 09:56 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 9 January 2015 at 17:48, Kirk Wallace  wrote:
>
>> Oops, I missed the exclusive nature of the link. I really wished that
>> people would _not_ use "free" services.
>
> The pictures are on Picasa, but Google auto-redirect to Google+ if you
> have a Google account. The files are still available on Picasa, but it
> takes a bit of URL-wrangling to get there.
> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#6047572913175439346
>
> (note the manually-inserted "noredirect=1")
>

Sorry for my comments Andy. This shows how frustrating it can be to 
protect oneself even when being fairly paranoid. I suppose any Google 
search links to my self-hosted pages have the same problem. Whatever 
happened to "Don't be evil".

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[andy pugh]

On 9 January 2015 at 17:48, Kirk Wallace  wrote:

> Oops, I missed the exclusive nature of the link. I really wished that
> people would _not_ use "free" services.

The pictures are on Picasa, but Google auto-redirect to Google+ if you
have a Google account. The files are still available on Picasa, but it
takes a bit of URL-wrangling to get there.
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted?noredirect=1#6047572913175439346

(note the manually-inserted "noredirect=1")

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Kirk Wallace]

On 01/09/2015 07:07 AM, Robert Ash wrote:
> Not much good for myself not being a "Googlian" Have to register for access 
> to "Plus" stuff, not gonna happen

Oops, I missed the exclusive nature of the link. I really wished that 
people would _not_ use "free" services. They certainly are not free to 
the user or those around them.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Dave Cole]

Perhaps Robert Ash will not sign up for Google Plus...  But perhaps Ash 
Robert could..  ?  ;-)

On 1/9/2015 10:07 AM, Robert Ash wrote:
> Not much good for myself not being a "Googlian" Have to register for access 
> to "Plus" stuff, not gonna happen
>
> On 25 December 2014 at 04:47, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
>>> Andy's version is here:
>>> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542?pid=5832689638364145858&oid=108164504656404380542
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[andy pugh]

On 9 January 2015 at 15:07, Robert Ash  wrote:
> Not much good for myself not being a "Googlian" Have to register for access 
> to "Plus" stuff, not gonna happen.

http://youtu.be/_P027KQ8ZHo

But then YouTube is part of Google now, so probably also excluded?

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Robert Ash]

Not much good for myself not being a "Googlian" Have to register for access to 
"Plus" stuff, not gonna happen

On 25 December 2014 at 04:47, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
>> Andy's version is here:
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542?pid=5832689638364145858&oid=108164504656404380542
>>   
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[andy pugh]

On 25 December 2014 at 04:47, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:

>> Andy's version is here:
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542?pid=5832689638364145858&oid=108164504656404380542

> Large diameter stepper motor.

It isn't actually a stepper motor, it is a 3-phase multi-pole brushless motor.

Not that a stepper motor is necessarily anything other than a 100-pole
2-phase brushless motor really.

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Karlsson & Wang]

If it is an induction motor which is probably the cheapest to build slip 
between electrical speed and mechanical speed will depend on load. In this kind 
of motors there are no magnets and the magnetic field is developed by the slip.

Nicklas Karlsson



On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 08:00:04 +
Marcus Bowman  wrote:

> I've just taken a similar motor form our (now dead) washing machine. I took 
> the whole harness and all the electronics from the machine, so I may be able 
> to get it on the bench and give it a push and a prod sometime. 
> It seems to me that the motor rpm is greatly affected by the load. My 
> knowledge gets sketchy at this point, but I have read of control/regulation 
> being via back emf, used in a feedback loop inside the controller. What 
> puzzles me is how rpm and feedback seem detached under no-load conditions.
> Nice motors, though.
> Mine is labelled C. E. SET and its 800W 17000rpm.
> The controller was made by Jabil Circuit who used to have a factory about 3 
> miles from here.
> The washing machine was a Hotpoint. We've had several, and they are not that 
> great. But I have to say that when I took it apart, the engineering design of 
> many of the components impressed me greatly. All that clever design to make 
> the thing easy and cheap to manufacturer. The drum mouldings are worthy of a 
> design museum.
> 
> What controller are you using?
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> On 23 Dec 2014, at 23:37, richsh...@comcast.net wrote:
> 
> > Well, I dug through the pumphouse, found an Automation Direct GS1 drive, 
> > hooked it up. set the upper frequency for 400HZ. and it works! This 
> > motor has a nameplate indicating it as a 0.8KW sized motor, about 1HP for 
> > some of the audience. Should be very cheap to pick up. Next step is to get 
> > the 17,000 rpm motor speed down to something useful. 
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Marcus Bowman]

I've just taken a similar motor form our (now dead) washing machine. I took the 
whole harness and all the electronics from the machine, so I may be able to get 
it on the bench and give it a push and a prod sometime. 
It seems to me that the motor rpm is greatly affected by the load. My knowledge 
gets sketchy at this point, but I have read of control/regulation being via 
back emf, used in a feedback loop inside the controller. What puzzles me is how 
rpm and feedback seem detached under no-load conditions.
Nice motors, though.
Mine is labelled C. E. SET and its 800W 17000rpm.
The controller was made by Jabil Circuit who used to have a factory about 3 
miles from here.
The washing machine was a Hotpoint. We've had several, and they are not that 
great. But I have to say that when I took it apart, the engineering design of 
many of the components impressed me greatly. All that clever design to make the 
thing easy and cheap to manufacturer. The drum mouldings are worthy of a design 
museum.

What controller are you using?

Marcus


On 23 Dec 2014, at 23:37, richsh...@comcast.net wrote:

> Well, I dug through the pumphouse, found an Automation Direct GS1 drive, 
> hooked it up. set the upper frequency for 400HZ. and it works! This 
> motor has a nameplate indicating it as a 0.8KW sized motor, about 1HP for 
> some of the audience. Should be very cheap to pick up. Next step is to get 
> the 17,000 rpm motor speed down to something useful. 
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 12/24/2014 6:33 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:

> Andy's version is here:
> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542?pid=5832689638364145858&oid=108164504656404380542
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/6047572913175439346?pid=6047572913175439346&oid=108164504656404380542

Large diameter stepper motor. I've seen those used for wind generators 
and even a couple directly coupled to the screws on a knee mill. Stuck 
up above the table so that would limit work from hanging off the table 
on the front and one end.


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[Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Roland Jollivet]

Why a gearbox?

The shaft is about 20mm OD
The drum is about 450 OD
So a ratio of 20/450 gives a drum speed of ~ 755RPM using a single belt.

The usual drum speed-high is about 800RPM
New machines have drum speeds of 1000RPM

Regards
Roland


On 25 December 2014 at 02:53, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:

> On 12/24/2014 11:42 AM, Robert Ash wrote:
> > I have a good relationship with a salvage man here and would like to see
> an image of this motor. I may have missed it if posted before.  If I can
> recognize it I can pull one for my own education. I get treadmill motors
> with drives as well as other drive train parts from him very reasonably.
>
> My brain is still going *doink* over the concept of a 17,000 RPM motor
> in a washing machine. The motor and gearbox would need to have some
> major acoustic engineering to not drive all the cats and dogs crazy.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Kirk Wallace]

On 12/24/2014 04:53 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> On 12/24/2014 11:42 AM, Robert Ash wrote:
>> I have a good relationship with a salvage man here and would like
>> to see an image of this motor. I may have missed it if posted
>> before.  If I can recognize it I can pull one for my own education.
>> I get treadmill motors with drives as well as other drive train
>> parts from him very reasonably.

Here is my version:
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/wash_motor/wash_motor_side.jpg
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/wash_motor/wash_motor_plate.jpg

> My brain is still going *doink* over the concept of a 17,000 RPM
> motor in a washing machine. The motor and gearbox would need to have
> some major acoustic engineering to not drive all the cats and dogs
> crazy.

I assume there is a long belt that goes all the way around the drum for 
a washer or dryer and there is no gearbox. My motor ran very quietly on 
the bench. I have cut the arms off and turned the stubs down to the 
motor's OD, so it looks like a proper motor now. I just need to figure 
out what to use it on.

Andy's version is here:
https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542?pid=5832689638364145858&oid=108164504656404380542

https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/6047572913175439346?pid=6047572913175439346&oid=108164504656404380542

I saw this while I was there:
https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5951817748876519665

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 12/24/2014 11:42 AM, Robert Ash wrote:
> I have a good relationship with a salvage man here and would like to see an 
> image of this motor. I may have missed it if posted before.  If I can 
> recognize it I can pull one for my own education. I get treadmill motors with 
> drives as well as other drive train parts from him very reasonably.

My brain is still going *doink* over the concept of a 17,000 RPM motor 
in a washing machine. The motor and gearbox would need to have some 
major acoustic engineering to not drive all the cats and dogs crazy.


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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Robert Ash]

I have a good relationship with a salvage man here and would like to see an 
image of this motor. I may have missed it if posted before.  If I can recognize 
it I can pull one for my own education. I get treadmill motors with drives as 
well as other drive train parts from him very reasonably. 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:57 AM,  wrote:

> Old pattern ships were beautiful I thought.  New ones are not so much with
> the tall bodies and such. Everybody makes electric
> powered ones too. Nothing beats the smell of burning castor and nitro.
> I'll never buy an electric plane even though it's probably better and more
> convenient
>
> Terry
>

I'm with you on that.  I always liked the 120 to 140 sized birds, as well
as the old .60 powered birds.  It was a hard adjustment to make from the
old style to the FAI style.  I think the FAI style pattern is prettier than
the old style, but the old style birds were fun to fly too.

Electric airplanes never did anything for me.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[tcninja12]

Old pattern ships were sleek and beautiful I think. New ones are not so much. I 
hate all the electric 
ones too.  Nothing beats the smell of burning castor and nitro 

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2014, at 9:34 AM, Mark Wendt  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:31 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>> FAI pattern... I knew I saw your name before this list. I tried but
>> never was successful
>> 
>> Terry
> 
> 
> Hi Terry,
> 
> Yeah, it was a few years ago.  Started to get a little too expensive for
> what little I was doing it, so I sorta drifted away from the sport.  It was
> a lot of fun though, and I really did enjoy flying those pattern birds.  ;-)
> 
> Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[tcninja12]

Old pattern ships were beautiful I thought.  New ones are not so much with the 
tall bodies and such. Everybody makes electric
powered ones too. Nothing beats the smell of burning castor and nitro. I'll 
never buy an electric plane even though it's probably better and more convenient

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2014, at 9:34 AM, Mark Wendt  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:31 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>> FAI pattern... I knew I saw your name before this list. I tried but
>> never was successful
>> 
>> Terry
> 
> 
> Hi Terry,
> 
> Yeah, it was a few years ago.  Started to get a little too expensive for
> what little I was doing it, so I sorta drifted away from the sport.  It was
> a lot of fun though, and I really did enjoy flying those pattern birds.  ;-)
> 
> Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 10:31 AM,  wrote:

> FAI pattern... I knew I saw your name before this list. I tried but
> never was successful
>
> Terry
>


Hi Terry,

Yeah, it was a few years ago.  Started to get a little too expensive for
what little I was doing it, so I sorta drifted away from the sport.  It was
a lot of fun though, and I really did enjoy flying those pattern birds.  ;-)

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[tcninja12]

FAI pattern... I knew I saw your name before this list. I tried but 
never was successful

Terry

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2014, at 4:24 AM, Mark Wendt  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 12/23/2014 4:37 PM, richsh...@comcast.net wrote:
>>> Next step is to get the 17,000 rpm motor speed down to something useful.
>> 
>> Power turbine and a planetary gear?
>> http://www.rc-airplanes-simplified.com/model-jet-engines.html
> 
> Wondered how long it was going to take for the RC guys to come up with a
> turboprop engine.  Back when I flew FAI pattern, state of the art was a YS
> 140 4 stroke motor, and jet engines were quite in their infancy.
> 
> Nice piece of engineering.
> 
> Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 24 December 2014 05:53:33 Mark Wendt did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 5:44 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > > Wondered how long it was going to take for the RC guys to come up
> > > with a turboprop engine.  Back when I flew FAI pattern, state of
> > > the art was a YS 140 4 stroke motor, and jet engines were quite in
> > > their infancy.
> > > 
> > > Nice piece of engineering.
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > 
> > I was impressed too, but what I was looking at is not the $75.00 .49
> > ci 2 stroker of yore, circa 1950.  That looked like serious 2014
> > money, well north of $750 I'll bet.  But it surprised me that the
> > air intake was at the rear.  Seems like a good opportunity to use
> > the jets left over thrust was thrown away.
> > 
> > And, since no one seems to have mentioned it yet, Merry Christmas
> > everybody!
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> Gene,
> 
> I used to have all the high performance 2 stroke engines back when I
> was flying RC planes.  My favorite was a Rossi .60 that I used on the
> old fashioned pattern birds, rear exhaust with a big honkin' tuned
> pipe that tunnelled under the bottom of the fuselage.

That can, if there is room to do it right, make a serious contribution not 
only to the power, but the fuel economy.

> My other
> favorites were the high end OS engines, both 2 stroke and 4 stroke. 
> OS made (makes?) some very nice power plants.

Been out of that for about 65 years now, so I am not "up to date" on who 
makes what.  I went from those 2 strokes, to bigger ones on go karts back 
in the day.

My most ugly ever kart was an old gopher that I'd hung a Pacific Marine 
Bilge pump on swing mounts, with a pair of straight pipes about 20" long.  
It was a hard bearing engine based on the 1937 J-E outboard where it was 
about a 10 horse.  I tossed the lower two rings & blocked the groves, then 
found a narrower, slightly smaller ring for the top ring and used it for a 
groove stuffer holding a .025" thick steel ring.  It spun pretty freely 
then.  Bored out the intake passage to the center of the crank which was 
used as a rotary intake & put an overgrown Carter carb on it with a full 
1" throttle bore.  Threw away the flywheel and put a Bendix-Scintella 
button magnet magneto on it.  With 18 teeth on the crankshaft & 64 or so 
on the axle, it could make north of 110 mph on the black hills blacktop 
back roads running on gas, but when I took it racing I usually had booze 
and castor oil in the left, 2 gallon tank. Water in an identical tank on 
the right side and a small water pump belted off the axle circulated the 
water thru a Nash heater core under the steering loop, open at the bottom 
so air could flow thru.

That was an unusual hard bearing engine, the rollers in the con rods 
weren't caged, and the rod caps were removable so one could fit bigger 
rollers in much the same way we now fit ball screw balls. The part line 
was very ragged as the rod was made in one piece with the bolt bosses 
preformed, and then fractured at the cap boss.  When the cap was 
reinstalled, the fractured grain assured perfect alignment and the 
fracture line could not be seen or felt in the rod bore.

But at the end of the racing night it was not competitive because while it 
could out torque anything on the track digging out of the corners, the 
deflector head pistons generally quit working well at around 7 grand.  But 
at 5500-6500, only one guy could out dig me coming off a corner and he had 
3 West Bend 700's (illegally big by the rules then) lined up across the 
rear of his machine.  He couldn't do it with 3 West Bend 580's on it 
though, but those came alive at about the same point my bilge pump quit, 
so he passed me easily halfway down the straight, burned into the corner 
where I would make up 30 feet (he couldn't drive) but it wasn't enough.

But it was fun while it lasted. ;-)

> And a very Merry Christmas and a blessed and prosperous New Years to
> you, your family and all of us here on the LinuxCNC list.
> 
> Mark
> ---
> --- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming! The Go Parallel
> Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot
> Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from
> weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies,
> tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now.
> http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

-

Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Mark Wendt]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 5:44 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> >
> > Wondered how long it was going to take for the RC guys to come up with
> > a turboprop engine.  Back when I flew FAI pattern, state of the art
> > was a YS 140 4 stroke motor, and jet engines were quite in their
> > infancy.
> >
> > Nice piece of engineering.
> >
> > Mark
>
> I was impressed too, but what I was looking at is not the $75.00 .49 ci 2
> stroker of yore, circa 1950.  That looked like serious 2014 money, well
> north of $750 I'll bet.  But it surprised me that the air intake was at
> the rear.  Seems like a good opportunity to use the jets left over thrust
> was thrown away.
>
> And, since no one seems to have mentioned it yet, Merry Christmas
> everybody!
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>


Gene,

I used to have all the high performance 2 stroke engines back when I was
flying RC planes.  My favorite was a Rossi .60 that I used on the old
fashioned pattern birds, rear exhaust with a big honkin' tuned pipe that
tunnelled under the bottom of the fuselage.  My other favorites were the
high end OS engines, both 2 stroke and 4 stroke.  OS made (makes?) some
very nice power plants.

And a very Merry Christmas and a blessed and prosperous New Years to you,
your family and all of us here on the LinuxCNC list.

Mark
--
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 24 December 2014 05:24:33 Mark Wendt did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Gregg Eshelman  
wrote:
> > On 12/23/2014 4:37 PM, richsh...@comcast.net wrote:
> > > Next step is to get the 17,000 rpm motor speed down to something
> > > useful.
> > 
> > Power turbine and a planetary gear?
> > http://www.rc-airplanes-simplified.com/model-jet-engines.html
> 
> Wondered how long it was going to take for the RC guys to come up with
> a turboprop engine.  Back when I flew FAI pattern, state of the art
> was a YS 140 4 stroke motor, and jet engines were quite in their
> infancy.
> 
> Nice piece of engineering.
> 
> Mark

I was impressed too, but what I was looking at is not the $75.00 .49 ci 2 
stroker of yore, circa 1950.  That looked like serious 2014 money, well 
north of $750 I'll bet.  But it surprised me that the air intake was at 
the rear.  Seems like a good opportunity to use the jets left over thrust 
was thrown away.

And, since no one seems to have mentioned it yet, Merry Christmas 
everybody!

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Mark Wendt]

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:12 PM, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:

> On 12/23/2014 4:37 PM, richsh...@comcast.net wrote:
> > Next step is to get the 17,000 rpm motor speed down to something useful.
>
> Power turbine and a planetary gear?
> http://www.rc-airplanes-simplified.com/model-jet-engines.html
>

Wondered how long it was going to take for the RC guys to come up with a
turboprop engine.  Back when I flew FAI pattern, state of the art was a YS
140 4 stroke motor, and jet engines were quite in their infancy.

Nice piece of engineering.

Mark
--
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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 12/23/2014 4:37 PM, richsh...@comcast.net wrote:
> Next step is to get the 17,000 rpm motor speed down to something useful.

Power turbine and a planetary gear? 
http://www.rc-airplanes-simplified.com/model-jet-engines.html

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Re: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[Ralph Stirling]

Is that an induction motor or a PM brushless motor?
Nice to know about - thanks for testing it!

-- Ralph

From: richsh...@comcast.net [richsh...@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 3:37 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

Well, I dug through the pumphouse, found an Automation Direct GS1 drive, hooked 
it up. set the upper frequency for 400HZ. and it works! This motor has 
a nameplate indicating it as a 0.8KW sized motor, about 1HP for some of the 
audience. Should be very cheap to pick up. Next step is to get the 17,000 rpm 
motor speed down to something useful.


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[Emc-users] 3 phase washing machine motor

[richshoop]

Well, I dug through the pumphouse, found an Automation Direct GS1 drive, hooked 
it up. set the upper frequency for 400HZ. and it works! This motor has 
a nameplate indicating it as a 0.8KW sized motor, about 1HP for some of the 
audience. Should be very cheap to pick up. Next step is to get the 17,000 rpm 
motor speed down to something useful. 
--
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sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your
hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought
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