Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 23:46, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

The first step is to design the part knowing the process and what it can
> and can't do.The usual timing belt pulleys are designed to be easy to
> make in a die-cast machine or injection molded.   They would look *much
> different* if they were milled using CNC.
>

I can make T-5 pulleys. I have the correct hob...
 Here is a rather special one that I made:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WQjvc7TCmm2K6yfA6


> Then look at (2) my
> modification of the above CAD file so that is it "printable".


I have a suggestion to avoid support for the flanges.

https://a360.co/2U7MfCg

(Use the explode tool to see the cunning plan)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 June 2020 19:13:10 andy pugh wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 23:46, Chris Albertson
>  wrote:
>
> The first step is to design the part knowing the process and what it
> can
>
> > and can't do.The usual timing belt pulleys are designed to be
> > easy to make in a die-cast machine or injection molded.   They would
> > look *much different* if they were milled using CNC.
>
> I can make T-5 pulleys. I have the correct hob...
>  Here is a rather special one that I made:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/WQjvc7TCmm2K6yfA6
>
> > Then look at (2) my
> > modification of the above CAD file so that is it "printable".
>
> I have a suggestion to avoid support for the flanges.
>
> https://a360.co/2U7MfCg
>
> (Use the explode tool to see the cunning plan)

Thats cute. But that would likely need to be made on a resin printer as 
this one from what I've seen so far, simply cannot do that fine a 
detail.

Someone was right, I did have "mold" checked. Uncheckd and new slice 
made, no other changes.  But perhaps 3 hours to finish this one, but its 
up into the pulley teeth but the threads its laying are completely 
random, no teeth, just a rough surface with no real pattern.  And no, 
its not loose on the hot plate. :-)  I'll see if the next one works, in 
which case I'll swap motors and find out how quick I can tear the hub 
out of it.  Big change from a nema 34 with a double flatted 14mm shaft 
to a nema 23 with a single flatted 8mm shaft. 30T on the motor, 42T on 
the 25mm Z single start screw...  I have a pair of metal pulley's 
ordered.

Cura its claimed can monitor and/or drive this machine thru the otg port, 
if I get the correct cable, but my 10 meter extension is usb-2, can 
someone verify that an otg adaptor plugged into a usb-2 hub will work?

Thanks.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 01:03, Gene Heskett  wrote:

up into the pulley teeth but the threads its laying are completely
> random, no teeth, just a rough surface with no real pattern.


Why not print the classic "Benchy" boat, and only try to make working parts
when that works?

(and why persist with this print if it is so obviously wrong?)


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> 
> I have a suggestion to avoid support for the flanges.
> 
> https://a360.co/2U7MfCg
> 
> (Use the explode tool to see the cunning plan)

Clever.  
John

> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 4:16 PM andy pugh  wrote:

>
> I can make T-5 pulleys. I have the correct hob...
>  Here is a rather special one that I made:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/WQjvc7TCmm2K6yfA6


cheating... no flanges. :-)

>
>
> I have a suggestion to avoid support for the flanges.
>
> https://a360.co/2U7MfCg
>

I gues you must have seem my tak on this idea too.   Use a metl core with a
band of teeth and one flange over it. over it

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 5:03 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> Thats cute. But that would likely need to be made on a resin printer as
> this one from what I've seen so far, simply cannot do that fine a
> detail.
>

My "cut" on this would work because the glue joint is hidden inside, Andy's
is smart but does place the glued joint on a working surface.



>
> Someone was right, I did have "mold" checked. Uncheckd and new slice
> made, no other changes.  But perhaps 3 hours to finish this one,


One advantage of hollowing out the pulley with a 24mm hole is the greatly
educe print time.  I only print the  our 5mm of the pulley.   I'm printing
four ofthem, four-up at a time now.



> but its
> up into the pulley teeth but the threads its laying are completely
> random, no teeth, just a rough surface with no real pattern.


Are these "teeth" the ones that engage the belt or the ones that engage the
set screw?   Printing a threaded horizontal hole is going to be way-hard
with 0.4mm walls for this just make an undersized plain hole and then tap
it by hand.  Or just as well, let it try to make threads then clean it up
with a tap.Vertical hones print better.

With standard threads in metal, every cross-section is a perfect circle.  A
vertical hole is just a stack of circles, something the printer can do.
But horizontal holes have "roofs".  The printer can't print over air so it
adds support material inside the hole.   I'm sure this is what you see,
 In Cura's preview support is blue.

It is possible to selectively turn supports on and off so the horizontal
holes are not filled with support.  But it is a lot of work   I use a hex
key to punch out the support from holes.

If the messed up teeth are the belt teeth then I'm at a loss without a
photo.



> And no,
> its not loose on the hot plate. :

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 June 2020 21:55:21 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 5:03 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Thats cute. But that would likely need to be made on a resin printer
> > as this one from what I've seen so far, simply cannot do that fine a
> > detail.
>
> My "cut" on this would work because the glue joint is hidden inside,
> Andy's is smart but does place the glued joint on a working surface.
>
> > Someone was right, I did have "mold" checked. Uncheckd and new slice
> > made, no other changes.  But perhaps 3 hours to finish this one,
>
> One advantage of hollowing out the pulley with a 24mm hole is the
> greatly educe print time.  I only print the  our 5mm of the pulley.  
> I'm printing four ofthem, four-up at a time now.
>
> > but its
> > up into the pulley teeth but the threads its laying are completely
> > random, no teeth, just a rough surface with no real pattern.
>
> Are these "teeth" the ones that engage the belt or the ones that
> engage the set screw? 

The belt, no grip at all, looks much better organized on the inside of the 
wall, but it of course the wrong size there so only 
about 3 teeth engage. Very poor fill, 10% maybe, no solid wall to support the 
back of the teeth at all.  The top flange is just a 
lick & a promise. And its hollow, no top wall at all.

> Printing a threaded horizontal hole is going 
> to be way-hard with 0.4mm walls for this just make an undersized plain
> hole and then tap it by hand.  Or just as well, let it try to make
> threads then clean it up with a tap.Vertical hones print better.
>
> With standard threads in metal, every cross-section is a perfect
> circle.  A vertical hole is just a stack of circles, something the
> printer can do. But horizontal holes have "roofs".  The printer can't
> print over air so it adds support material inside the hole.   I'm sure
> this is what you see, In Cura's preview support is blue.
>
> It is possible to selectively turn supports on and off so the
> horizontal holes are not filled with support.  But it is a lot of work
>   I use a hex key to punch out the support from holes.
>
> If the messed up teeth are the belt teeth then I'm at a loss without a
> photo.
>
> > And no,
> > its not loose on the hot plate. :

Now, looking at the sprocket code in openscad, it will not render a 
motor shaft over 9.9mm, using this line of code, no clue what language 
this is, but its a .scad file, part of the parametric pulley kit.

translate([0,0,-1])cylinder(r=motor_shaft/2,h=pulley_b_ht + pulley_t_ht + 
retainer_ht + 2,$fn=motor_shaft*4);

How do I modify this to accept a 2 digit left of . shaft diameter? By 
stripping this down to 30 teeth and a bottom flange, if I could make 
the motor shaft big enough, I have the makings of the plastic half of 
a 2 part pulley.

But it will not render if over 9.9 in $motor_shaft setting.  Seems like
an artificial limit to me. But what do I know. Nothing TBE.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Martin Dobbins]

Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible to 3d 
print just the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a hub and 
"enclose" (sandwich) the teeth?

Martin


From: Chris Albertson

>
> Thats cute. But that would likely need to be made on a resin printer as
> this one from what I've seen so far, simply cannot do that fine a
> detail.
>

My "cut" on this would work because the glue joint is hidden inside, Andy's
is smart but does place the glued joint on a working surface.



>
> Someone was right, I did have "mold" checked. Uncheckd and new slice
> made, no other changes.  But perhaps 3 hours to finish this one,


One advantage of hollowing out the pulley with a 24mm hole is the greatly
educe print time.  I only print the  our 5mm of the pulley.   I'm printing
four ofthem, four-up at a time now.



> but its
> up into the pulley teeth but the threads its laying are completely
> random, no teeth, just a rough surface with no real pattern.


Are these "teeth" the ones that engage the belt or the ones that engage the
set screw?   Printing a threaded horizontal hole is going to be way-hard
with 0.4mm walls for this just make an undersized plain hole and then tap
it by hand.  Or just as well, let it try to make threads then clean it up
with a tap.Vertical hones print better.

With standard threads in metal, every cross-section is a perfect circle.  A
vertical hole is just a stack of circles, something the printer can do.
But horizontal holes have "roofs".  The printer can't print over air so it
adds support material inside the hole.   I'm sure this is what you see,
 In Cura's preview support is blue.

It is possible to selectively turn supports on and off so the horizontal
holes are not filled with support.  But it is a lot of work   I use a hex
key to punch out the support from holes.

If the messed up teeth are the belt teeth then I'm at a loss without a
photo.



> And no,
> its not loose on the hot plate. :

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 June 2020 10:50:38 Martin Dobbins wrote:

> Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible
> to 3d print just the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a
> hub and "enclose" (sandwich) the teeth?
>
> Martin
>
> 
> From: Chris Albertson
>
> > Thats cute. But that would likely need to be made on a resin printer
> > as this one from what I've seen so far, simply cannot do that fine a
> > detail.
>
> My "cut" on this would work because the glue joint is hidden inside,
> Andy's is smart but does place the glued joint on a working surface.
>
> > Someone was right, I did have "mold" checked. Uncheckd and new slice
> > made, no other changes.  But perhaps 3 hours to finish this one,
>
> One advantage of hollowing out the pulley with a 24mm hole is the
> greatly educe print time.  I only print the  our 5mm of the pulley.  
> I'm printing four ofthem, four-up at a time now.

What generator software? Openscad, using the thingiverse parametric .scad 
files, cannot render a shaft of more than 9.9mm's, else we could do this 
by enlarging the shaft, so all we'ed have to print was a ring of teeth.

> > but its
> > up into the pulley teeth but the threads its laying are completely
> > random, no teeth, just a rough surface with no real pattern.
>
> Are these "teeth" the ones that engage the belt or the ones that
> engage the set screw?   Printing a threaded horizontal hole is going
> to be way-hard with 0.4mm walls for this just make an undersized plain
> hole and then tap it by hand.  Or just as well, let it try to make
> threads then clean it up with a tap.Vertical hones print better.
>
> With standard threads in metal, every cross-section is a perfect
> circle.  A vertical hole is just a stack of circles, something the
> printer can do. But horizontal holes have "roofs".  The printer can't
> print over air so it adds support material inside the hole.   I'm sure
> this is what you see, In Cura's preview support is blue.
>
> It is possible to selectively turn supports on and off so the
> horizontal holes are not filled with support.  But it is a lot of work
>   I use a hex key to punch out the support from holes.
>
> If the messed up teeth are the belt teeth then I'm at a loss without a
> photo.
>
> > And no,
> > its not loose on the hot plate. :
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Martin Dobbins]

From: Gene Heskett

On Friday 05 June 2020 10:50:38 Martin Dobbins wrote:

> Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible
> to 3d print just the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a
> hub and "enclose" (sandwich) the teeth?
>
> Martin
>
> 
> From: Chris Albertson
>
> > Thats cute. But that would likely need to be made on a resin printer
> > as this one from what I've seen so far, simply cannot do that fine a
> > detail.
>
> My "cut" on this would work because the glue joint is hidden inside,
> Andy's is smart but does place the glued joint on a working surface.
>
> > Someone was right, I did have "mold" checked. Uncheckd and new slice
> > made, no other changes.  But perhaps 3 hours to finish this one,
>
> One advantage of hollowing out the pulley with a 24mm hole is the
> greatly educe print time.  I only print the  our 5mm of the pulley.
> I'm printing four ofthem, four-up at a time now.

>What generator software? Openscad, using the thingiverse parametric .scad
>files, cannot render a shaft of more than 9.9mm's, else we could do this
>by enlarging the shaft, so all we'ed have to print was a ring of teeth.

Yes it can, it's parameter driven, change the values of the parameters.

> > but its
> > up into the pulley teeth but the threads its laying are completely
> > random, no teeth, just a rough surface with no real pattern.
>
> Are these "teeth" the ones that engage the belt or the ones that
> engage the set screw?   Printing a threaded horizontal hole is going
> to be way-hard with 0.4mm walls for this just make an undersized plain
> hole and then tap it by hand.  Or just as well, let it try to make
> threads then clean it up with a tap.Vertical hones print better.
>
> With standard threads in metal, every cross-section is a perfect
> circle.  A vertical hole is just a stack of circles, something the
> printer can do. But horizontal holes have "roofs".  The printer can't
> print over air so it adds support material inside the hole.   I'm sure
> this is what you see, In Cura's preview support is blue.
>
> It is possible to selectively turn supports on and off so the
> horizontal holes are not filled with support.  But it is a lot of work
>   I use a hex key to punch out the support from holes.
>
> If the messed up teeth are the belt teeth then I'm at a loss without a
> photo.
>
> > And no,
> > its not loose on the hot plate. :
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Bruce Layne]

On 6/4/20 8:01 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Someone was right, I did have "mold" checked.

You can save yourself all kinds of grief if you get in the habit of
previewing each print in Cura before printing it, so you can see exactly
what the printer will print, layer by layer.  It's a great way to spot
support material where you don't want it, unsupported portions of the
part that will cause a print to fail, mistakes in a part you created,
mistaken configurations of the slicer parameters and gross errors like
telling the slicer to print a mold instead of the part.

I'd also second the advice to print simpler objects to learn how the
printer works.  I bought my 3D printers for serious structural parts and
I'm not into printing baby Yoda, but it's very helpful to first print
the known good G code file the manufacturer supplies on the SD card so
you aren't trying to learn SCAD, understand the various file formats,
teach yourself Cura, and learn all of the tricks of 3D printing at the
same time.  That's too steep a learning curve, even for quick witted
youngsters (which we are not).  It's tempting to get a new tool and
immediately attempt to press it into service making the parts you need,
but you'll run sooner if you don't try to run before you learn to crawl.

If you want a resin 3D printed pulley (60mm / 2.5" OD or less), email me
the STL and your USPS address.






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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 20:08, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

>  The broken

> plastic band under the pulley is the sacrificial support that Cura places
> between the flanges.


That has me wondering how long a 3D printed drive belt would last.
(I have these stupid ideas so that you don't have to)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 June 2020 13:54:44 Martin Dobbins wrote:

> 
> From: Gene Heskett
>
> On Friday 05 June 2020 10:50:38 Martin Dobbins wrote:
> > Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be
> > possible to 3d print just the teeth and then have two metal flanges
> > that make a hub and "enclose" (sandwich) the teeth?
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > 
> > From: Chris Albertson
> >
> > > Thats cute. But that would likely need to be made on a resin
> > > printer as this one from what I've seen so far, simply cannot do
> > > that fine a detail.
> >
> > My "cut" on this would work because the glue joint is hidden inside,
> > Andy's is smart but does place the glued joint on a working surface.
> >
> > > Someone was right, I did have "mold" checked. Uncheckd and new
> > > slice made, no other changes.  But perhaps 3 hours to finish this
> > > one,
> >
> > One advantage of hollowing out the pulley with a 24mm hole is the
> > greatly educe print time.  I only print the  our 5mm of the pulley.
> > I'm printing four ofthem, four-up at a time now.
> >
> >What generator software? Openscad, using the thingiverse parametric
> > .scad files, cannot render a shaft of more than 9.9mm's, else we
> > could do this by enlarging the shaft, so all we'ed have to print was
> > a ring of teeth.
>
> Yes it can, it's parameter driven, change the values of the
> parameters.
>
I did that, anything larger than 9.9mm's for shaft size simply does not 
render.  zero response to clicking the render button.
> > > but its
> > > up into the pulley teeth but the threads its laying are completely
> > > random, no teeth, just a rough surface with no real pattern.
> >
> > Are these "teeth" the ones that engage the belt or the ones that
> > engage the set screw?   Printing a threaded horizontal hole is going
> > to be way-hard with 0.4mm walls for this just make an undersized
> > plain hole and then tap it by hand.  Or just as well, let it try to
> > make threads then clean it up with a tap.Vertical hones print
> > better.
> >
> > With standard threads in metal, every cross-section is a perfect
> > circle.  A vertical hole is just a stack of circles, something the
> > printer can do. But horizontal holes have "roofs".  The printer
> > can't print over air so it adds support material inside the hole.  
> > I'm sure this is what you see, In Cura's preview support is blue.
> >
> > It is possible to selectively turn supports on and off so the
> > horizontal holes are not filled with support.  But it is a lot of
> > work I use a hex key to punch out the support from holes.
> >
> > If the messed up teeth are the belt teeth then I'm at a loss without
> > a photo.
> >
> > > And no,
> > > its not loose on the hot plate. :
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 10:44 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 05 June 2020 10:50:38 Martin Dobbins wrote:
>
> > Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible
> > to 3d print just the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a
> > hub and "enclose" (sandwich) the teeth?
>

Yes, but the problem is printing a "roof" the bottom flang is printed on
the build plate.   The upper flange needs either support or to be made as a
second part and later assembled.   The second part can be metal or
plastic.  Any solution that spilts the pully into two parts avoids the roof
problem.

But you can also simply enable "supports" and the root is printed of
scaffolding that is later removed.   The trade off is that this "scaffolding"
they call "suppots" leave cosmetic marks o the surfaces it touches and
these have to be removed by hand and it can be a bit of work





> What generator software? Openscad, using the thingiverse parametric .scad
> files, cannot render a shaft of more than 9.9mm's, else we could do this
> by enlarging the shaft, so all we'ed have to print was a ring of teeth.
>

Yes, I used a 24mm bore hole for a mild steel hub.  A ring of teeth over a
metal hub will last for years but a plastic hub has a short life.  And the
plastic dos did not hold set screws well.  This is one solution
https://a360.co/3eUpZE6
 but I don't like turning down to much metal to
make a flange.

My suggestion from day-one was to donload a finished CAD model from SPD/SI
web site.   These are accurate and i any CAD file format you like (they
have alist to choose from)   Then you have a known working pulley model.

Then in the CAD software create any hub or custom feaures you like.

Sticking with OpenSCAN you would use the parametric pulley to make a basic
pulley then modify it using openSCAN commands before saving to STL.  But
OpenSCAD is not well suited for general design work and has a big learning
curve.   Better to modify the pulley on OnShape or Fusion where it is a
five minute job.

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Bari]

If you have a SLA printer you can do this if it uses top down 
projection. You can stop during the photopolymer print process and add 
components for support as long as they don't shadow any layer above.


On 6/5/20 9:50 AM, Martin Dobbins wrote:

Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible to 3d print just 
the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a hub and "enclose" 
(sandwich) the teeth?



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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Thaddeus Waldner]

> What generator software? Openscad, using the thingiverse parametric .scad 
> files, cannot render a shaft of more than 9.9mm's, else we could do this 
> by enlarging the shaft, so all we'ed have to print was a ring of teeth.

Attached is a picture of a 41T GT2 2mm pulley with a 54mm shaft diameter. 
Generated with the same OpenSCAD file.

I’m using it on a Mac but it should work the same on Linux. This model is 
designed to have many features customizable by changing parameters. You can do 
this by editing the code directly  (eg, find where it says motor_shaft =6; and 
change that number to whatever you like).

Another much nicer way to customize it is to use the customizer tool panel. Go 
to View>Hide Customizer and make sure that this option is unchecked. This 
brings up a list of spin buttons that lets you adjust each parameter found in 
the file. If you turn on Automatic Preview at the top of the Customizer, it 
should give you a live preview as you change parameters.

If you cannot see the preview then make sure that View>Preview is checked.

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

Not, stupid idea.I think I will try making a PLA belt.   If nothing
else it will be used to verify belt size before ordering. and I will post
the test on Youtube.  Failures make for good video.


But it could work,  I have a spool of medium-soft TPU.  The problem is it
stretches.

So I print a PLA form that looks like a huge 200T pulley but with a huge
hole so not much plastic is needed then print a TPU belt and place it over
the form.  Next, I wrap it with polyester thread stolen from the sewing
machine kit.  Finally, I print another TPU band and glue it over the
thread.  That might work for months.

But SPD/SI sells the belt I need for $10.




On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 12:14 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 20:08, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
>
> >  The broken
>
> > plastic band under the pulley is the sacrificial support that Cura places
> > between the flanges.
>
>
> That has me wondering how long a 3D printed drive belt would last.
> (I have these stupid ideas so that you don't have to)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Martin Dobbins]

Maybe just naivete here, but I was thinking about a sacrificial raft as the 
base.  If you are building teeth in layers from there, surely they would be 
self supporting as long as they did not have to support the upper flange?  You 
don't need an upper flange if that will ultimately be another material.  If 
supports are required to support the open tower of teeth, could they not be 
arranged to be in the bore of the pulley?

Might just be a case of sleeving the teeth with something to clean out the bore 
on a lathe?

Martin


From: Chris Albertson

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 10:44 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 05 June 2020 10:50:38 Martin Dobbins wrote:
>
> > Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible
> > to 3d print just the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a
> > hub and "enclose" (sandwich) the teeth?
>

Yes, but the problem is printing a "roof" the bottom flang is printed on
the build plate.   The upper flange needs either support or to be made as a
second part and later assembled.   The second part can be metal or
plastic.  Any solution that spilts the pully into two parts avoids the roof
problem.

But you can also simply enable "supports" and the root is printed of
scaffolding that is later removed.   The trade off is that this "scaffolding"
they call "suppots" leave cosmetic marks o the surfaces it touches and
these have to be removed by hand and it can be a bit of work





> What generator software? Openscad, using the thingiverse parametric .scad
> files, cannot render a shaft of more than 9.9mm's, else we could do this
> by enlarging the shaft, so all we'ed have to print was a ring of teeth.
>

Yes, I used a 24mm bore hole for a mild steel hub.  A ring of teeth over a
metal hub will last for years but a plastic hub has a short life.  And the
plastic dos did not hold set screws well.  This is one solution
https://a360.co/3eUpZE6
 but I don't like turning down to much metal to
make a flange.

My suggestion from day-one was to donload a finished CAD model from SPD/SI
web site.   These are accurate and i any CAD file format you like (they
have alist to choose from)   Then you have a known working pulley model.

Then in the CAD software create any hub or custom feaures you like.

Sticking with OpenSCAN you would use the parametric pulley to make a basic
pulley then modify it using openSCAN commands before saving to STL.  But
OpenSCAD is not well suited for general design work and has a big learning
curve.   Better to modify the pulley on OnShape or Fusion where it is a
five minute job.

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[N]

> I put this on a separate thread from the LinuxCNC 3D printing one.  But I
> see this same problem MANY times.  It seems so obvious (after the fact) but
> I still see this problem with professional work.  There is a guy on another
> list printing parts that are copies of stamped 1.0mm thick sheet steel and,
> guess what?  They break in normal use.

There are plenty of tricks then manufacturing steel sheets, grain structure 
does also matter so no suprise it break.


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Martin Dobbins]

I'm really curious about the printer you are using, I don't recognize it from 
the pictures what brand is it?

Martin


From: Bari

If you have a SLA printer you can do this if it uses top down
projection. You can stop during the photopolymer print process and add
components for support as long as they don't shadow any layer above.

On 6/5/20 9:50 AM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible to 3d 
> print just the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a hub and 
> "enclose" (sandwich) the teeth?


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Bari]

I build all my own custom printers. Why I am working with LCNC for all 
the control.


On 6/5/20 3:05 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:

I'm really curious about the printer you are using, I don't recognize it from 
the pictures what brand is it?

Martin


From: Bari

If you have a SLA printer you can do this if it uses top down
projection. You can stop during the photopolymer print process and add
components for support as long as they don't shadow any layer above.

On 6/5/20 9:50 AM, Martin Dobbins wrote:

Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible to 3d print just 
the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a hub and "enclose" 
(sandwich) the teeth?


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 June 2020 15:25:49 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> > What generator software? Openscad, using the thingiverse parametric
> > .scad files, cannot render a shaft of more than 9.9mm's, else we
> > could do this by enlarging the shaft, so all we'ed have to print was
> > a ring of teeth.
>
> Attached is a picture of a 41T GT2 2mm pulley with a 54mm shaft
> diameter. Generated with the same OpenSCAD file.
>
It took a restart of openscad to do it, but now it works, Thank you 
Thaddeus.

I now have the .stl for the plastic half with a  heavy flange on the 
bottom that is part flange and a 1mm base the same OD as the outer edge 
of the flange.

Now I need to get some alu big enough to make the rest of it.  I'll need 
an 8mm shaft bore, a back flange on it thats 56mm in diameter, and an 
inner section to fit inside the plastic that is 42mm in diameter.  Thats 
if I can coax this printer into making it. I am having lack of adhesion 
problems.  The raft keeps coming loose.

> I’m using it on a Mac but it should work the same on Linux. This model
> is designed to have many features customizable by changing parameters.
> You can do this by editing the code directly  (eg, find where it says
> motor_shaft =6; and change that number to whatever you like).
>
> Another much nicer way to customize it is to use the customizer tool
> panel. Go to View>Hide Customizer and make sure that this option is
> unchecked. This brings up a list of spin buttons that lets you adjust
> each parameter found in the file. If you turn on Automatic Preview at
> the top of the Customizer, it should give you a live preview as you
> change parameters.
>
> If you cannot see the preview then make sure that View>Preview is
> checked.
>
Now, read the rest of my mail and see if anyone has a better idea about 
the temps so maybe it will stick all the way thru instead of the raft 
coming loose before its all laid down.  Or what to wash it down with for 
best stick. The used area of the pad is wearing smooth.
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Martin Dobbins]

You built it? Cool.

If you can run it with LCNC, so much the better.

I'd like to know more about this when you have the time.

Martin


From: Bari

I build all my own custom printers. Why I am working with LCNC for all
the control.

On 6/5/20 3:05 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> I'm really curious about the printer you are using, I don't recognize it from 
> the pictures what brand is it?
>
> Martin
>
> 
> From: Bari
>
> If you have a SLA printer you can do this if it uses top down
> projection. You can stop during the photopolymer print process and add
> components for support as long as they don't shadow any layer above.
>
> On 6/5/20 9:50 AM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
>> Quick thought on the teeth with a metal flange.  Would it be possible to 3d 
>> print just the teeth and then have two metal flanges that make a hub and 
>> "enclose" (sandwich) the teeth?
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 21:34, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> The used area of the pad is wearing smooth.

Move the part to somewhere else in the bed in Cura.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 June 2020 17:51:33 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 21:34, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > The used area of the pad is wearing smooth.
>
> Move the part to somewhere else in the bed in Cura.

Hadn't thought of that, thanks.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

This guy printed one for his car's engine. It worked, for a bit. 3D Printed Car 
Belt | Will It Run? 

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
3D Printed Car Belt | Will It Run?


 |

 |

 |





On Friday, June 5, 2020, 1:14:39 PM MDT, andy pugh  
wrote:  
 
 On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 20:08, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

>  The broken

> plastic band under the pulley is the sacrificial support that Cura places
> between the flanges.


That has me wondering how long a 3D printed drive belt would last.
(I have these stupid ideas so that you don't have to)  
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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 05 June 2020 16:32:36 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Friday 05 June 2020 15:25:49 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> > > What generator software? Openscad, using the thingiverse
> > > parametric .scad files, cannot render a shaft of more than
> > > 9.9mm's, else we could do this by enlarging the shaft, so all
> > > we'ed have to print was a ring of teeth.
> >
> > Attached is a picture of a 41T GT2 2mm pulley with a 54mm shaft
> > diameter. Generated with the same OpenSCAD file.
>
> It took a restart of openscad to do it, but now it works, Thank you
> Thaddeus.
>
> I now have the .stl for the plastic half with a  heavy flange on the
> bottom that is part flange and a 1mm base the same OD as the outer
> edge of the flange.

Got it made, took all night, but I can see right thru the pulley cogs.  
Its all infill at 50% or less. How the heck do I convince cura to make 
solid teeth?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Andrew]

сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 17:03 Gene Heskett  пише:

>
> Got it made, took all night, but I can see right thru the pulley cogs.
> Its all infill at 50% or less. How the heck do I convince cura to make
> solid teeth?
>
> Gene, can you give us a photo? Maybe upload somewhere and post a link


WBR,
Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Andrew]

сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 17:03 Gene Heskett  пише:

> Got it made, took all night, but I can see right thru the pulley cogs.
> Its all infill at 50% or less. How the heck do I convince cura to make
> solid teeth?
>

Also, check that you have filament diameter set to 1.75mm.

WBR, Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 at 17:56, Gene Heskett  wrote:

Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side,


Do you have any wall at all? That looks to be _all_ infill.

In "Quality" what is your "Wall line width" and then in "Shell" what is
your "Wall thickness" and "Wall line count"

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Dr. Andreas O. Lindner]

Hello Gene,

this looks a lot like massive under extrusion. This can come from clogged nosel 
or wrong filament diameter

Best regards,
Andreas


Andreas O. Lindner

Lindner TAC

Auhofstraße 11 B / 11
1130 Wien
Austria

Fax: +43 1 877 68 73
Mobil: +43 664 41 24 742

Email: a.lind...@lindner-tac.at
Web: http://www.lindner-tac.at



> Am 06.06.2020 um 18:53 schrieb Gene Heskett :
> 
> On Saturday 06 June 2020 10:15:48 Andrew wrote:
> 
>> сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 17:03 Gene Heskett  пише:
>>> Got it made, took all night, but I can see right thru the pulley
>>> cogs. Its all infill at 50% or less. How the heck do I convince cura
>>> to make solid teeth?
>>> 
>>> Gene, can you give us a photo? Maybe upload somewhere and post a
>>> link
> 
> Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side, compresses better  Had 
> a hell of a time, camera decided its autofocus didn't work after fresh 
> batteries.
> 
>> WBR,
>> Andrew
>> 
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> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

Something is fundamentally wrong.The error in the print swamps the 3mm
pitch teeth.   The print as errors that are literally 10x greater than they
should be.  Your printer should be making parts with less than 0.2 or 0.1
mm (0.010 to 0.005 inch) deviation from the design.

*Can you show us all the settings you used in Cura?   Ether take a
screenshot or do a "file--> Save" and post the resulting *.3MF file.  *

It does not even make sense to measure that 5mm cube test block if the
surface quality is this poor.

It is REALLY hard to guess what the problem is without seeing the exact
settings.I could ask you what you did, but there is a good chance what
you think you did is not what actually was done.   I doubt the printer is
broken.


On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 9:56 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 06 June 2020 10:15:48 Andrew wrote:
>
> > сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 17:03 Gene Heskett  пише:
> > > Got it made, took all night, but I can see right thru the pulley
> > > cogs. Its all infill at 50% or less. How the heck do I convince cura
> > > to make solid teeth?
> > >
> > > Gene, can you give us a photo? Maybe upload somewhere and post a
> > > link
>
> Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side, compresses better  Had
> a hell of a time, camera decided its autofocus didn't work after fresh
> batteries.
>
> > WBR,
> > Andrew
> >
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>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 13:01:32 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 at 17:56, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side,
>
>
> Do you have any wall at all? That looks to be _all_ infill.

To me too.

> In "Quality" what is your 
"Wall line width" =0.3 

> and then in "Shell" what is your 
"Wall thickness" =3.0mm 
> and 
"Wall line count" =10.0   

Thanks Andy

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Andrew]

сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 19:56 Gene Heskett  пише:

> Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side, compresses better  Had
> a hell of a time, camera decided its autofocus didn't work after fresh
> batteries.
>
>
Wow. Severe under extrusion!

Go to Preferences -> Printers -> choose your printer -> Machine Settings ->
Extruder tab -> Compatible material diameter. Should be 1.75mm

WBR,
Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 13:51:39 Andrew wrote:

> сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 19:56 Gene Heskett  пише:
> > Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side, compresses better 
> > Had a hell of a time, camera decided its autofocus didn't work after
> > fresh batteries.
>
> Wow. Severe under extrusion!
>
> Go to Preferences -> Printers -> choose your printer -> Machine
> Settings -> Extruder tab -> Compatible material diameter. Should be
> 1.75mm
>
It is.

> WBR,
> Andrew
>
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-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

DO I read this as using 0.3mm line width?   If the nozzle has a 0.4mm hole
you must set the line width to 0.4.

Cura will run the extruders at a rate that pumps plastic to make a
linewitdth x layerthickness x speed.   So if you say 0.3 line, then it will
pump out 3/4 as much plastic as required and move over 0.3 to print the
next line and will mess up what it just printed.

The 3mm wall and also explains your very long print times.   I'm making
usable 40T pulleys in one hour 10 minutes

I would print with all default settings but do enable support "everywhere"
as it will only be used if needed.At least until you get a good
looking 5mm test cube.

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 10:34 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 06 June 2020 13:01:32 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 at 17:56, Gene Heskett 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side,
> >
> >
> > Do you have any wall at all? That looks to be _all_ infill.
>
> To me too.
>
> > In "Quality" what is your
> "Wall line width" =0.3
>
> > and then in "Shell" what is your
> "Wall thickness" =3.0mm
> > and
> "Wall line count" =10.0
>
> Thanks Andy
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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>


-- 

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Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 13:51:39 Andrew wrote:

> сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 19:56 Gene Heskett  пише:
> > Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side, compresses better 
> > Had a hell of a time, camera decided its autofocus didn't work after
> > fresh batteries.
>
> Wow. Severe under extrusion!
>
> Go to Preferences -> Printers -> choose your printer -> Machine
> Settings -> Extruder tab -> Compatible material diameter. Should be
> 1.75mm
>
> WBR,
> Andrew
>

The mail server is being a cast iron PITA.  So add "lathe.stf" to the 
address bar after clicking on the link in my sig. its the only 
CE3PRO*.3mf file there.

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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 14:01:52 Chris Albertson wrote:

> DO I read this as using 0.3mm line width?   If the nozzle has a 0.4mm
> hole you must set the line width to 0.4.

I don't recall setting that, it was an autoselected choice that I think 
came with the super quality setting.  If I make it bigger, how much 
bigger?

> Cura will run the extruders at a rate that pumps plastic to make a
> linewitdth x layerthickness x speed.   So if you say 0.3 line, then it
> will pump out 3/4 as much plastic as required and move over 0.3 to
> print the next line and will mess up what it just printed.
>
> The 3mm wall and also explains your very long print times.   I'm
> making usable 40T pulleys in one hour 10 minutes
>
> I would print with all default settings but do enable support
> "everywhere" as it will only be used if needed.At least until you
> get a good looking 5mm test cube.
>
> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 10:34 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Saturday 06 June 2020 13:01:32 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 at 17:56, Gene Heskett 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side,
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you have any wall at all? That looks to be _all_ infill.
> >
> > To me too.
> >
> > > In "Quality" what is your
> >
> > "Wall line width" =0.3
> >
> > > and then in "Shell" what is your
> >
> > "Wall thickness" =3.0mm
> >
> > > and
> >
> > "Wall line count" =10.0
> >
> > Thanks Andy
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:00 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 06 June 2020 13:51:39 Andrew wrote:
>
> > сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 19:56 Gene Heskett  пише:
> > > Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side, compresses better
> > > Had a hell of a time, camera decided its autofocus didn't work after
> > > fresh batteries.
> >
> > Wow. Severe under extrusion!
>

We need to wait for Gene to post a file to see what is really happening but
of "line width" is set to 0.3 and a 0.4 nozzel is installed we would expect
to see only 75% of the required plastic being extruded.  Yes "severe under
extrusion"

This would explain the bed adhesion problem too, it needs to pump out 1/3rd
more plastic.

Gene, the plastic sicks to what ever is below it because there is a 0.4mm
of hot and PRESSURIZED plastic under the nozzle.  The hot circle of
pressurized plastic melts whatever is below it in the case if layer #1
pushes the plastic into micro structure of the aluminum.  But with only
75% of the feed rate there is no pressure in the 0.4 circle under the
extruder is not even filled

That is why 3D printing even works, it is because the extruder rate exactly
matches the print speed and is able to maintain a 0.4mm circle of super
heated liquid plastic.
-- 

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Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

This is why posting a screen shot or 3MF is needed. The 0.3 could be
anything.  When I make something I keep the .STL, the .gcode and
the .3mf files together in one place "forever" so that if I want to re-make
the part I just load the 3mf file and all the settings are restored.

I am thinking of a system where I write a serial number on the part so I
can find its 3MF file later.My point is that the 3mf keeps your work
and remembers what you did for you.  Now to find a white ink Sharpie.

On the positive side, I just discovered that I can get a near-perfect
surface finish on PLA using a lathe.  I used a brazed-on carbide boring bar
to clean the inside of a PLA pulley.  I took a 0.005 cut at very low rpm
(to avoid melting the plastic) and got a smooth inside that is a light
press fit to the 24mm steel hub.I think I will try red (permanent)
Locktight and see how it holds up.

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:14 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 06 June 2020 14:01:52 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > DO I read this as using 0.3mm line width?   If the nozzle has a 0.4mm
> > hole you must set the line width to 0.4.
>
> I don't recall setting that, it was an autoselected choice that I think
> came with the super quality setting.  If I make it bigger, how much
> bigger?
>
> > Cura will run the extruders at a rate that pumps plastic to make a
> > linewitdth x layerthickness x speed.   So if you say 0.3 line, then it
> > will pump out 3/4 as much plastic as required and move over 0.3 to
> > print the next line and will mess up what it just printed.
> >
> > The 3mm wall and also explains your very long print times.   I'm
> > making usable 40T pulleys in one hour 10 minutes
> >
> > I would print with all default settings but do enable support
> > "everywhere" as it will only be used if needed.At least until you
> > get a good looking 5mm test cube.
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 10:34 AM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > On Saturday 06 June 2020 13:01:32 andy pugh wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 at 17:56, Gene Heskett 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you have any wall at all? That looks to be _all_ infill.
> > >
> > > To me too.
> > >
> > > > In "Quality" what is your
> > >
> > > "Wall line width" =0.3
> > >
> > > > and then in "Shell" what is your
> > >
> > > "Wall thickness" =3.0mm
> > >
> > > > and
> > >
> > > "Wall line count" =10.0
> > >
> > > Thanks Andy
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > Genes Web page 
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Martin Dobbins]

>I don't recall setting that, it was an autoselected choice that I think
>came with the super quality setting.  If I make it bigger, how much
>bigger?

I'm getting the impression that Cura is a project :-) I know you don't want to 
spend your time looking at videos, this guy has 20+ short videos on the "ins 
and outs" of Cura, I wonder if this one helps?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVeLDoWuVi0

Martin




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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Andrew]

сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 21:00 Gene Heskett  пише:

>
> > Go to Preferences -> Printers -> choose your printer -> Machine
> > Settings -> Extruder tab -> Compatible material diameter. Should be
> > 1.75mm
> >
> It is.
>

OK. I don't think that any other setting might be that wrong.
That looks like clogging then.

What happens when you lift the nozzle and extrude say 50mm of filament at
5-10mm/s?
The extrusion should go right down and look pretty straight.

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 14:18:19 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:00 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Saturday 06 June 2020 13:51:39 Andrew wrote:
> > > сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 19:56 Gene Heskett  пише:
> > > > Here ya go Andrew. A bit fuzzier on the far side, compresses
> > > > better Had a hell of a time, camera decided its autofocus didn't
> > > > work after fresh batteries.
> > >
> > > Wow. Severe under extrusion!
>
> We need to wait for Gene to post a file to see what is really
> happening but of "line width" is set to 0.3 and a 0.4 nozzel is
> installed we would expect to see only 75% of the required plastic
> being extruded.  Yes "severe under extrusion"

The server is being a cast iron bitch, instant reject notices even when 
its smaller than the 360k stated limit.  So its in the usual place, 
click on the link in my sig, and when you see our now old pix, 
add "lathe.stf/" to the address bar, and its the only CE3PRO file there.

> This would explain the bed adhesion problem too, it needs to pump out
> 1/3rd more plastic.
>
> Gene, the plastic sicks to what ever is below it because there is a
> 0.4mm of hot and PRESSURIZED plastic under the nozzle.  The hot circle
> of pressurized plastic melts whatever is below it in the case if layer
> #1 pushes the plastic into micro structure of the aluminum.  But
> with only 75% of the feed rate there is no pressure in the 0.4 circle
> under the extruder is not even filled
>
> That is why 3D printing even works, it is because the extruder rate
> exactly matches the print speed and is able to maintain a 0.4mm circle
> of super heated liquid plastic.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Correction: 
"lathe-stf/“
Full address:
http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/lathe-stf/

> The server is being a cast iron bitch, instant reject notices even when 
> its smaller than the 360k stated limit.  So its in the usual place, 
> click on the link in my sig, and when you see our now old pix, 
> add "lathe.stf/" to the address bar, and its the only CE3PRO file there.


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

Looking at that *.3mf file I can see the cause of the problem,There are
39 non-default settings but the big problem is near the top.   See the
screenshot below.

The "line width" is set to 0.3 and there is a 0.4 nozzle on the printer.
This is a perfect way to simulate the effect of a clogged-up nozzle.

Also this part does NOT need a "super quality" layer hight.  All the lines
are vertical so a small z-axis step does nothing.  Try setting this to
about 0.2 and get a faster print.

This has to be the problem.   I thought about actually printing this to see
if I can duplicate the failed print.  But I think the cause is obvious now

[image: Genes3mf.jpeg]

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:53 AM Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:

> Correction:
> "lathe-stf/“
> Full address:
> http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/lathe-stf/
>
> > The server is being a cast iron bitch, instant reject notices even when
> > its smaller than the 360k stated limit.  So its in the usual place,
> > click on the link in my sig, and when you see our now old pix,
> > add "lathe.stf/" to the address bar, and its the only CE3PRO file there.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 14:38:34 Andrew wrote:

> сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 21:00 Gene Heskett  пише:
> > > Go to Preferences -> Printers -> choose your printer -> Machine
> > > Settings -> Extruder tab -> Compatible material diameter. Should
> > > be 1.75mm
> >
> > It is.
>
> OK. I don't think that any other setting might be that wrong.
> That looks like clogging then.
>
> What happens when you lift the nozzle and extrude say 50mm of filament
> at 5-10mm/s?
> The extrusion should go right down and look pretty straight.

I've not found that menu on the printer.  I assume it s/b on the move 
menu, and that it should be preheated for pla? So I've raised z to 
100mm, and its preheating now.

And it comes out about 97% straight, so I don't think its clogged.
I've raised the line width to match the nozzle and will redo the slice 
when you folks run out of ideas to check.

But before I waste another day doing another render that jut as bad, lets 
concentrate on why the teeth are being rendered by the infill, no 
surface walls for smoothness at all.  Inside or out, its all infill.

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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 14:38:34 Andrew wrote:

> сб, 6 черв. 2020 о 21:00 Gene Heskett  пише:
> > > Go to Preferences -> Printers -> choose your printer -> Machine
> > > Settings -> Extruder tab -> Compatible material diameter. Should
> > > be 1.75mm
> >
> > It is.
>
> OK. I don't think that any other setting might be that wrong.
> That looks like clogging then.
>
> What happens when you lift the nozzle and extrude say 50mm of filament
> at 5-10mm/s?
> The extrusion should go right down and look pretty straight.
>
it generally does.
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 14:51:22 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> Correction:
> "lathe-stf/“
> Full address:
> http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/lathe-stf/
>
> > The server is being a cast iron bitch, instant reject notices even
> > when its smaller than the 360k stated limit.  So its in the usual
> > place, click on the link in my sig, and when you see our now old
> > pix, add "lathe.stf/" to the address bar, and its the only CE3PRO
> > file there.

yup, can I blame it on oldtimers?

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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Thaddeus Waldner]

If I’m lucky and smart, I might get to be an old-timer myself someday. 
Much respect, sir.


> On Jun 6, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> On Saturday 06 June 2020 14:51:22 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> 
>> Correction:
>> "lathe-stf/“
>> Full address:
>> http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/lathe-stf/
>> 
>>> The server is being a cast iron bitch, instant reject notices even
>>> when its smaller than the 360k stated limit.  So its in the usual
>>> place, click on the link in my sig, and when you see our now old
>>> pix, add "lathe.stf/" to the address bar, and its the only CE3PRO
>>> file there.
> 
> yup, can I blame it on oldtimers?
> 
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

Using the *.3mf file a downloaded from Gen's computer, I was able to slice
the model and create g-code for an Ender printer on my Mac. I get the
same results Gene complains about.  Cura is predicting a 7 hour, 26 minute
print time for a 15 gram part.   That is a very long time for a small part.

With the setting that I happen to like, I can have this printed is one
hour, 24 minutes using 10g of plastic.

Try slicing and printing this
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmGgidd2xYBChA8AOY4frSbCTbo0?e=dvu43y


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 15:16:21 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Looking at that *.3mf file I can see the cause of the problem,   
> There are 39 non-default settings but the big problem is near the top.
>   See the screenshot below.
>
> The "line width" is set to 0.3 and there is a 0.4 nozzle on the
> printer. This is a perfect way to simulate the effect of a clogged-up
> nozzle.
>
> Also this part does NOT need a "super quality" layer hight.  All the
> lines are vertical so a small z-axis step does nothing.  Try setting
> this to about 0.2 and get a faster print.
>
> This has to be the problem.   I thought about actually printing this
> to see if I can duplicate the failed print.  But I think the cause is
> obvious now
>
> [image: Genes3mf.jpeg]
>
> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:53 AM Thaddeus Waldner  
wrote:
> > Correction:
> > "lathe-stf/“
> > Full address:
> > http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene/lathe-stf/
> >
> > > The server is being a cast iron bitch, instant reject notices even
> > > when its smaller than the 360k stated limit.  So its in the usual
> > > place, click on the link in my sig, and when you see our now old
> > > pix, add "lathe.stf/" to the address bar, and its the only CE3PRO
> > > file there.

So I resliced it at the suggested changes, and while it still laying down 
the raft, its a considerably more substantial raft than before.  Will be 
interesting as it claims about 3 something hours, faster than it took to 
do the 8 hour job you've looked at.

It seems to me off to a decent if not flying start, I fed the missus too, 
so I think I'll check my eyelids for leaks while its creeping along.

2 hours later its at 40% and looking much more solid and usable.  Thanks 
for the help everybody.

I found some 2.25" alu to make its hub from.  It will be a race to see 
which gets here first, a real sprocket or rest of the makings for this.

Then it will be back to motorizing the BS-1 clone.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 15:35:51 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> If I’m lucky and smart, I might get to be an old-timer myself someday.
> Much respect, sir.

I hope I've earned it, somehow I've managed to survive all my bad 
decisions because I've been the fixit man for 70+ years.  You get an 
education and experience from those.

The ultimate revenge is having out lived all your enemies, many by 
decades. OTOH, my spare parts cards in my billfold are beginning to 
resemble Lee Majors, the 6 million dollar man from whats now late night 
tv.

Diabetes is catching up with me. That is something they could fix, but 
won't, its a 6+ trillion dollar a year business to the medics. Their 
$ocial $ecurity. :-(  Same story with the common cold. Its a "corona 
virus" too, so now we are paying, some of us, the ultimate price.

Take care, stay healthy and all that Thaddeus.  Someday the world might 
need a hero, so be ready. :-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 16:20:56 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Using the *.3mf file a downloaded from Gen's computer, I was able to
> slice the model and create g-code for an Ender printer on my Mac.
> I get the same results Gene complains about.  Cura is predicting a 7
> hour, 26 minute print time for a 15 gram part.   That is a very long
> time for a small part.
>
> With the setting that I happen to like, I can have this printed is one
> hour, 24 minutes using 10g of plastic.
>
> Try slicing and printing this
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmGgidd2xYBChA8AOY4frSbCTbo0?e=dvu43y

I might, if I can figure out where chromium put it.

Thanks Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

On Linux $home/Downloads/ by default.   Or try "file-> Save" and look to
see where it wants to put files

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 3:47 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 06 June 2020 16:20:56 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > Using the *.3mf file a downloaded from Gen's computer, I was able to
> > slice the model and create g-code for an Ender printer on my Mac.
> > I get the same results Gene complains about.  Cura is predicting a 7
> > hour, 26 minute print time for a 15 gram part.   That is a very long
> > time for a small part.
> >
> > With the setting that I happen to like, I can have this printed is one
> > hour, 24 minutes using 10g of plastic.
> >
> > Try slicing and printing this
> > https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmGgidd2xYBChA8AOY4frSbCTbo0?e=dvu43y
>
> I might, if I can figure out where chromium put it.
>
> Thanks Chris.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 16:20:56 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Using the *.3mf file a downloaded from Gen's computer, I was able to
> slice the model and create g-code for an Ender printer on my Mac.
> I get the same results Gene complains about.  Cura is predicting a 7
> hour, 26 minute print time for a 15 gram part.   That is a very long
> time for a small part.
>
> With the setting that I happen to like, I can have this printed is one
> hour, 24 minutes using 10g of plastic.
>
> Try slicing and printing this
> https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmGgidd2xYBChA8AOY4frSbCTbo0?e=dvu43y

humm, did, but the slice says 7:40 elapsed time, 32g of plastic at 10.62 
meters used. Why the diff? Shut down cura, re-run, and load as project. 
gets the times etc you quote, major diff is skirt, not raft.

Will give it a run when this one is done. Might raise build plate half a 
turn each knob, first layer looks like round stuff, no smear against the 
plate at all but but it did stick except for the first 3/4" run of 
plastic laid. Thanks. Thats the pissy switch on z for auto-home. It and 
the y switch need better, far more consistent versions.  Or maybe more 
exercise. IDK other than its randomness is too large.  I may, before I 
start another run, bring in a .0001 dial and do some playing just for S 
& G. 

Surprise, its no worse than about 3 thou. Lowered the switch another 40 
thou to put some more tension of the leveling springs, then found a page 
from a grizzly flyer than came today was obviously thinner than my 22lb 
letter paper. Reset nozzle clearance to just touch on that thinner 
paper, and now have the card plugged in here where I have to sudo to 
copy anything to it.  Then the FIXED is off screen so I had to bring 
card back in and nuke the unfixed file.  Then it took 4 starts to get 
close enough for adhesion, again I can see a faint polished line on the 
table from the nozzle when its close enough to stick well. 

Then I think I can see a slight hint of over-extrusion, its outputting a 
tiny drop at the start of a new line it traveled to get to. The problem 
with that is that it doesn't know it's there and knocks that line of 
plastic loose by hitting it on the next pass. I've turned up the 
extruder drive about 3% in the machines own settings, so I'll turn that 
back down .25% or so for every time I have to restart because it knocked 
it loose.  Or do I need to increase the retract distance?  IDK which is 
the better fix?

Your version s/b done in another hour. I see the flange on mine is warped 
upwards to a nearly vertical line, potentially hard on the belt edge, 
despite my leaving a mm of flange diameter hub as reinforcement below 
the flange, so that idea didn't fly well. 1mm is too thin?  Looks like 
you removed it, I see no sign of it in the build.

Thanks Chris, with a lot of help, its coming around.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 21:41:28 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 06 June 2020 16:20:56 Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Using the *.3mf file a downloaded from Gen's computer, I was able to
> > slice the model and create g-code for an Ender printer on my Mac.
> > I get the same results Gene complains about.  Cura is predicting a 7
> > hour, 26 minute print time for a 15 gram part.   That is a very long
> > time for a small part.
> >
> > With the setting that I happen to like, I can have this printed is
> > one hour, 24 minutes using 10g of plastic.
> >
> > Try slicing and printing this
> > https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmGgidd2xYBChA8AOY4frSbCTbo0?e=dvu43y
>
> humm, did, but the slice says 7:40 elapsed time, 32g of plastic at
> 10.62 meters used. Why the diff? Shut down cura, re-run, and load as
> project. gets the times etc you quote, major diff is skirt, not raft.
>
> Will give it a run when this one is done. Might raise build plate half
> a turn each knob, first layer looks like round stuff, no smear against
> the plate at all but but it did stick except for the first 3/4" run of
> plastic laid. Thanks. Thats the pissy switch on z for auto-home. It
> and the y switch need better, far more consistent versions.  Or maybe
> more exercise. IDK other than its randomness is too large.  I may,
> before I start another run, bring in a .0001 dial and do some playing
> just for S & G.
>
> Surprise, its no worse than about 3 thou. Lowered the switch another
> 40 thou to put some more tension of the leveling springs, then found a
> page from a grizzly flyer than came today was obviously thinner than
> my 22lb letter paper. Reset nozzle clearance to just touch on that
> thinner paper, and now have the card plugged in here where I have to
> sudo to copy anything to it.  Then the FIXED is off screen so I had to
> bring card back in and nuke the unfixed file.  Then it took 4 starts
> to get close enough for adhesion, again I can see a faint polished
> line on the table from the nozzle when its close enough to stick well.
>
> Then I think I can see a slight hint of over-extrusion, its outputting
> a tiny drop at the start of a new line it traveled to get to. The
> problem with that is that it doesn't know it's there and knocks that
> line of plastic loose by hitting it on the next pass. I've turned up
> the extruder drive about 3% in the machines own settings, so I'll turn
> that back down .25% or so for every time I have to restart because it
> knocked it loose.  Or do I need to increase the retract distance?  IDK
> which is the better fix?
>
> Your version s/b done in another hour. I see the flange on mine is
> warped upwards to a nearly vertical line, potentially hard on the belt
> edge, despite my leaving a mm of flange diameter hub as reinforcement
> below the flange, so that idea didn't fly well. 1mm is too thin? 
> Looks like you removed it, I see no sign of it in the build.
>
> Thanks Chris, with a lot of help, its coming around.

Final inspection, the flange tipped inward for about 3/4" at one edge, 
I'd assume because it lost adhesion, so without touching anything, I'll 
repeat the run to see if it repeats. Maybe raise the bed one notch all 
around. And reduce the extruder speed by .5% to 93.5, was 94 from my 
previous diddling.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Bruce Layne]

On 6/6/20 3:19 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> lets 
> concentrate on why the teeth are being rendered by the infill, no 
> surface walls for smoothness at all.  Inside or out, its all infill.

I think Gene correct, at least in this statement.  I don't think his 3D
printer is under extruding and I don't think there are gross dimensional
errors.  I think the weird rough finish in his image is gyroid infill
with no outer layers.

Does Cura have a way to restore a default setup?  If not, can someone
send Gene a Cura profile that works?  Something like 2 or 3 outer
layers, .2mm layer height and 20% infill.

I still don't know why Gene is printing these mistakes instead of
previewing the print in Cura and fixing the obvious problems before
printing.




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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 8:15 PM Bruce Layne 
wrote:

>
>
> On 6/6/20 3:19 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > lets
> > concentrate on why the teeth are being rendered by the infill, no
> > surface walls for smoothness at all.  Inside or out, its all infill.
>
> I think Gene correct, at least in this statement.  I don't think his 3D
> printer is under extruding and I don't think there are gross dimensional
> errors.  I think the weird rough finish in his image is gyroid infill
> with no outer layers.
>

I downloaded Gene's .3mf file and then could see exactly what was going on.
  The problem was simple:  "line width" was set to 0.3 which did not match
the nozzle installed on the printer this caused gross under extrusion and
other problems.

With Cure if you do "fie-> it creates a *.3mf files that preserve all the
setting and the STL file.  It contains a total snapshot of the project.
 So I was able to see Gene's problem first hand.

I always make a 3MF file after I make a print I like so I don't need to
remeber the setting used



>
> Does Cura have a way to restore a default setup?  If not, can someone
> send Gene a Cura profile that works?  Something like 2 or 3 outer
> layers, .2mm layer height and 20% infill.
>

I just did this and he is printing it now.   I changed hi 3MF file and sent
it back

Yes you can restore defaults.   When you select a "profile" (which is a set
of settings) Cura tells you how many defaults were changed, marks each one
and offers to "discard" them.   I discarded all 39  changes than did close
to what you said, 3 walls and 0.2 layers.

I learned something here.I am working on a 3D printable CNC conversion
of an HF mini mill and I plan to publish instructions.  I had intended to
publish the Fusion360 files and the STL files but now I think I will
publish 3MF files and tell people "Use Cura."  as that will capture print
orientation and settings.  More people will have success.

>
> I still don't know why Gene is printing these mistakes instead of
> previewing the print in Cura and fixing the obvious problems before
> printing.
>

The problem with preview is you have to know what looks wrong which mans
you have seen 100+ not-wrong ones.

Next time a problem has to be debugged remotely, I think the trick is to
get all the person files and duplicate the problem locally.   It just so
hard to guess.



>
>

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 23:12:48 Bruce Layne wrote:

> On 6/6/20 3:19 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > lets
> > concentrate on why the teeth are being rendered by the infill, no
> > surface walls for smoothness at all.  Inside or out, its all infill.
>
> I think Gene correct, at least in this statement.  I don't think his
> 3D printer is under extruding and I don't think there are gross
> dimensional errors.  I think the weird rough finish in his image is
> gyroid infill with no outer layers.
>
> Does Cura have a way to restore a default setup?  If not, can someone
> send Gene a Cura profile that works?  Something like 2 or 3 outer
> layers, .2mm layer height and 20% infill.
>
> I still don't know why Gene is printing these mistakes instead of
> previewing the print in Cura and fixing the obvious problems before
> printing.
>
Because that preview is worthless without a definition of what each color 
means. 
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

You can never go thicker layer or narrower line width than the diameter of the 
nozzle. Somewhere over 100% to 150% width is where you want the width. Under 
50% of the thickness makes it harder to extrude. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/5zxj1z/should_line_width_always_nozzle_size/

On Saturday, June 6, 2020, 12:14:12 PM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
 
 On Saturday 06 June 2020 14:01:52 Chris Albertson wrote:

> DO I read this as using 0.3mm line width?  If the nozzle has a 0.4mm
> hole you must set the line width to 0.4.

I don't recall setting that, it was an autoselected choice that I think 
came with the super quality setting.  If I make it bigger, how much 
bigger?  
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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Thomas J Powderly]

Gene

the colors:
There is no chart, but there are a few different colors:
- Green = outer wall lines
- Red = inner wall lines
- Cyan = support/skirt
- Dark blue = moves (thin lines)
- 3 other colors = infill (cycles between the 3 colors)
from     ian     Dormant  ultimaker forum

plus

about: you can chanhe them

https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/issues/6040

hth ( at least quicker than a print )

tomp



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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 06 June 2020 23:46:32 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 8:15 PM Bruce Layne
> 
>
> wrote:
> > On 6/6/20 3:19 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > lets
> > > concentrate on why the teeth are being rendered by the infill, no
> > > surface walls for smoothness at all.  Inside or out, its all
> > > infill.
> >
> > I think Gene correct, at least in this statement.  I don't think his
> > 3D printer is under extruding and I don't think there are gross
> > dimensional errors.  I think the weird rough finish in his image is
> > gyroid infill with no outer layers.
>
> I downloaded Gene's .3mf file and then could see exactly what was
> going on. The problem was simple:  "line width" was set to 0.3 which
> did not match the nozzle installed on the printer this caused gross
> under extrusion and other problems.
>
> With Cure if you do "fie-> it creates a *.3mf files that preserve all
> the setting and the STL file.  It contains a total snapshot of the
> project. So I was able to see Gene's problem first hand.
>
> I always make a 3MF file after I make a print I like so I don't need
> to remeber the setting used
>
> > Does Cura have a way to restore a default setup?  If not, can
> > someone send Gene a Cura profile that works?  Something like 2 or 3
> > outer layers, .2mm layer height and 20% infill.
>
> I just did this and he is printing it now.   I changed hi 3MF file and
> sent it back
>
> Yes you can restore defaults.   When you select a "profile" (which is
> a set of settings) Cura tells you how many defaults were changed,
> marks each one and offers to "discard" them.   I discarded all 39 
> changes than did close to what you said, 3 walls and 0.2 layers.
>
> I learned something here.I am working on a 3D printable CNC
> conversion of an HF mini mill and I plan to publish instructions.  I
> had intended to publish the Fusion360 files and the STL files but now
> I think I will publish 3MF files and tell people "Use Cura."  as that
> will capture print orientation and settings.  More people will have
> success.
>
> > I still don't know why Gene is printing these mistakes instead of
> > previewing the print in Cura and fixing the obvious problems before
> > printing.
>
> The problem with preview is you have to know what looks wrong which
> mans you have seen 100+ not-wrong ones.
>
> Next time a problem has to be debugged remotely, I think the trick is
> to get all the person files and duplicate the problem locally.   It
> just so hard to guess.

And my 2nd pass at printing what Chris sent me is, I would say, 
successfull, as i raised the bed to just ticking the nozzle, so that the 
first layer put down was perhaps only .05mm high.  Adhesion was 
excellent and I had to tap it sideways smartly with the handle of the 
putty knife suppied to get it to pop loose. The retainer flange looks 
ok, the belt fit nicely and I'll check my scrap box for a hiding hub 
half of the sprocket tomorrow.

Now we go back to motorizing that clone BS-1. . .  That is going to be a 
different critter entirely.  The question there may need .2mm nozzles to 
generate the gears as the 2nd relay is quite short and probably best 
done with gears, belts need more room.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 07 June 2020 00:31:42 Thomas J Powderly wrote:

> Gene
>
> the colors:
> There is no chart, but there are a few different colors:
> - Green = outer wall lines
> - Red = inner wall lines
> - Cyan = support/skirt
> - Dark blue = moves (thin lines)
> - 3 other colors = infill (cycles between the 3 colors)
> from     ian     Dormant  ultimaker forum
>
> plus
>
> about: you can chanhe them
>
> https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/issues/6040
>
> hth ( at least quicker than a print )
>
> tomp

Nothing there at that link, but this list above is somewhat helpfull.  
What would be far more helpfull would take lots more coding though, 
because a really helpfull way would be to drop a meat cleaver thru it, 
cutting off the front half & throwing it away and leaving a 
cross-sectional display so one could really see the innards.

But that would no doubt be a lot of work for the coders.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 05:33, Thomas J Powderly  wrote:

>
> There is no chart, but there are a few different colors:
> - Green = outer wall lines
> - Red = inner wall lines
> - Cyan = support/skirt
> - Dark blue = moves (thin lines)
> - 3 other colors = infill (cycles between the 3 colors)


Curious, the only colours I see are due to the different filaments I have
loaded in the two extruders.
(v4.2.1 Mac)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 07 June 2020 01:21:39 Gene Heskett wrote:

I went back to the 12 tooth I'll use for the motor pulley on the BS-1 
clone, and made it with the newer configuration.

Surprise, no junk in the access hole or the nut pocket, but I'd increased 
the nut size to a 5mm nut, which left the outside wall a bit thinner 
than I'd like, so I'll add a couple mm's to the hub diameter.

But before I do that again, perhaps someone could give me better 
measurements for both its width and thickness for a std 5mm nut?

This pulley would be usable, but belt tension is going to be quite high 
as the teeth, at this diameter are rounded enough to allow it to hop. 
Its a good looking render other than that.  Would slowing the movement 
speeds down improve that?  Render time was just a few seconds over an 
hour, which is a huge improvement.

Adhesion problems are gone if the first layer is under .1mm thick.  Thats 
about onion skin if using a paper for gage.

Many thanks for all the help folks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Brent Loschen]

On 6/7/2020 8:41 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Sunday 07 June 2020 01:21:39 Gene Heskett wrote:

I went back to the 12 tooth I'll use for the motor pulley on the BS-1
clone, and made it with the newer configuration.

Surprise, no junk in the access hole or the nut pocket, but I'd increased
the nut size to a 5mm nut, which left the outside wall a bit thinner
than I'd like, so I'll add a couple mm's to the hub diameter.

But before I do that again, perhaps someone could give me better
measurements for both its width and thickness for a std 5mm nut?

8 x 4 check out: https://www.mcmaster.com/90592A095


This pulley would be usable, but belt tension is going to be quite high
as the teeth, at this diameter are rounded enough to allow it to hop.
Its a good looking render other than that.  Would slowing the movement
speeds down improve that?  Render time was just a few seconds over an
hour, which is a huge improvement.

Adhesion problems are gone if the first layer is under .1mm thick.  Thats
about onion skin if using a paper for gage.

Many thanks for all the help folks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett




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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Chris Albertson]

I always have to look this stuff up.
https://www.engineersedge.com/hardware/standard_metric_hex_nuts_13728.htm

The other way to make metal threads is this.  You heat them with solder
iron (hold the tip up vertically and place the brass nut over the tip.)
 then push into a plain hole and the PLA solidifies  Makes a very
professional looking result.
amazon.com/Hilitchi-250-Pcs-Threaded-Embedment-Assortment...


Yes, printing slow makes everything shake less.  I print at 60mm/second and
seem to get better layer to layer adhesion.   But I bet I could do better
only once something works I hate to change.  I printed some braces and
screwed the printer to the bench and that helped the most.

There are dozens of  upgrade parts you can print or make.   (1) look at the
pulleys on your belts.  Most cheap printers use smooth round ones with no
teeth.  These cause vibration on the belt and are best replaced with
real timing belt idler pulleys with ball bearings inside. Make a
filament feed that does not tug on the extruder.  PVC pipe can work for
that.  Th best ones use ball bearings from skateboards, Some brands of
plastic are simply better. Some of tigher tolerances on the diameter (0.003
vs 0.005 mm) so the feed is more consistant.   These are many tiny things
that might add up.




On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 7:44 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 07 June 2020 01:21:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> I went back to the 12 tooth I'll use for the motor pulley on the BS-1
> clone, and made it with the newer configuration.
>
> Surprise, no junk in the access hole or the nut pocket, but I'd increased
> the nut size to a 5mm nut, which left the outside wall a bit thinner
> than I'd like, so I'll add a couple mm's to the hub diameter.
>
> But before I do that again, perhaps someone could give me better
> measurements for both its width and thickness for a std 5mm nut?
>
> This pulley would be usable, but belt tension is going to be quite high
> as the teeth, at this diameter are rounded enough to allow it to hop.
> Its a good looking render other than that.  Would slowing the movement
> speeds down improve that?  Render time was just a few seconds over an
> hour, which is a huge improvement.
>
> Adhesion problems are gone if the first layer is under .1mm thick.  Thats
> about onion skin if using a paper for gage.
>
> Many thanks for all the help folks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Design for the materials and process

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 07 June 2020 14:18:07 Chris Albertson wrote:

> I always have to look this stuff up.
> https://www.engineersedge.com/hardware/standard_metric_hex_nuts_13728.
>htm
>
I thought maybe you had that flled away in your wet ram, sorry.

I just read thru the sain smart docs w/o finding anything about the usb 
linkage between cura and the printer.

I have a long usb-2 cable plugged ino a  hub here, and into the otg port 
on th face of the printer, but cura can't update the driver because the 
printer isn't connected. I have one of two cables of about 5 meters 
long, then a C to otg adaptor, but given the lightning history, no clue 
if the cables, either one has survived the last 20 years.
I'll take a keystick to it and see if that's recognized.
Looks like the cable must be fubar, a 16G usb key isn't seen.

Has anyone made the usb interface work so cura's monitor screen works?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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