Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
It sounds like the problem is most likely a tuning or configuration issue. But I'm afraid I won't be much help there because I have no experience setting up that particular drive. I wouldn't be surprised if the auto tuning in the drive only really works with the drives position mode, and doesn't help with the velocity loop when it's by itself. On some of the drives I've tuned tuning the velocity loop is done by sending an alternating velocity step command and you'd do the same for tuning the velocity/torque loop side of a duel loop set up in Linuxcnc (you could use sig-gen for this purpose) then use hal scope to monitor the velocity feedback and tune the drive's velocity loop parameters to get the fastest response with minimal overshoot and settling time. Basically you want to try to make the velocity feedback match the square wave output by the sig-gen as closely as possible with no ripple or overshoot during the steady state of the velocity move. PS don't make the move too long or too fast, because it can be very hard on the machine hardware. A few inches/sec may be enough to tune it. Remember this thing will/should be exerting maximum torque at the reversals. That's a lot of bang, bang, bang. And this test may be impossible to do on a very short or un balanced axis such as an unbalanced Z axis. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: andrew beck Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2021 5:51 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. Hey todd The drives are new old drives I found. The existing drives used mecholink control that is to hard to talk to and I had the spare drives sitting in shed for years. I paid 10 bucks each lol so that's good at least. The motors are existing. I have had to set up lots of stuff on the drives and the only thing that I had to tune them was the auto tuning function. Which was not that good. So far torque mode has been pretty good. But I might try two nested loops yet. Y axis is really good like max following error 0.04 at 16m/min X axis motor runs out of torque. And just can't keep up. I can set drive to push 300 percent rated torque through motor briefly. What do you guys think of that, is it OK? Factory default is set to 300 percent. I changed it to 100 percent On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 02:10 Todd Zuercher, wrote: > I have no experience tuning one of those drives. (but my experience > with torque mode was less than wonderful.) Just curious was your > machine a retro fit that was originally equipped with those drives, or > is it a new install of these drives? Were the drives velocity loops > tuned for your machine before you tried to use them? If they weren't > properly tuned for velocity command input on your machine it isn't > surprising that they may not work well in that mode. (While I haven't > tuned those drives for Linuxcnc, I do have a machine that uses them > with another control in I assumed velocity mode, I just haven't had to > mess with them.) > > Todd Zuercher > P. Graham Dunn Inc. > 630 Henry Street > Dalton, Ohio 44618 > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > > -Original Message- > From: andrew beck > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2021 2:16 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > > hey everyone > > got good news to report back here! > > i changed to torque tuning and its like 10 times better than velocity > tuning in these drives > > someone one the forum said that he was starting to suspect that the > velocity tuning on the yaskawa drives was really that bad so they > allowed a torque feedforward setting to fix it lol > > anyway my initial findings were torque control is awesome > > i will post back later with more tuning findings > > regards > > Andrew > > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck > wrote: > > > hey everyone > > > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the > > moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and > > then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not > > getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the > > drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings > > in servo drive > > > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just > > wondering if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity > > control in terms of the pid loops and hal l
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
My biggest problem with torque mode and a single pid loop was that it was inconsistent on my machine. Tune settings that worked well one day didn't the next. And If I had good following errors at one speed, changing the speed and or load on the system caused much larger errors. With velocity mode (or a duel loop in Linuxcnc) I had much more consistent results. I might have had slightly larger minimum following errors under controlled conditions, but the errors were much more consistently smaller in real world and broader conditions. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: andrew beck Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2021 5:51 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. Hey todd The drives are new old drives I found. The existing drives used mecholink control that is to hard to talk to and I had the spare drives sitting in shed for years. I paid 10 bucks each lol so that's good at least. The motors are existing. I have had to set up lots of stuff on the drives and the only thing that I had to tune them was the auto tuning function. Which was not that good. So far torque mode has been pretty good. But I might try two nested loops yet. Y axis is really good like max following error 0.04 at 16m/min X axis motor runs out of torque. And just can't keep up. I can set drive to push 300 percent rated torque through motor briefly. What do you guys think of that, is it OK? Factory default is set to 300 percent. I changed it to 100 percent On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 02:10 Todd Zuercher, wrote: > I have no experience tuning one of those drives. (but my experience > with torque mode was less than wonderful.) Just curious was your > machine a retro fit that was originally equipped with those drives, or > is it a new install of these drives? Were the drives velocity loops > tuned for your machine before you tried to use them? If they weren't > properly tuned for velocity command input on your machine it isn't > surprising that they may not work well in that mode. (While I haven't > tuned those drives for Linuxcnc, I do have a machine that uses them > with another control in I assumed velocity mode, I just haven't had to > mess with them.) > > Todd Zuercher > P. Graham Dunn Inc. > 630 Henry Street > Dalton, Ohio 44618 > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > > -Original Message- > From: andrew beck > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2021 2:16 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > > hey everyone > > got good news to report back here! > > i changed to torque tuning and its like 10 times better than velocity > tuning in these drives > > someone one the forum said that he was starting to suspect that the > velocity tuning on the yaskawa drives was really that bad so they > allowed a torque feedforward setting to fix it lol > > anyway my initial findings were torque control is awesome > > i will post back later with more tuning findings > > regards > > Andrew > > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck > wrote: > > > hey everyone > > > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the > > moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and > > then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not > > getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the > > drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings > > in servo drive > > > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just > > wondering if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity > > control in terms of the pid loops and hal layer? or is there > > another whole level of stuff i need to do > > > > and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get > > better performance if using torque mode > > > > anyway let me know your experiences > > > > regards > > > > Andrew > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist > s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Cto > ddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ce5ffc4a4783848c1ce3408d96d92b329%7C5758544c573 > f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637661299125087584%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ > sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjo
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
i changed to torque tuning and its like 10 times better than velocity tuning in these drives Yup, that was my experience with the Yaskawa drives factory fitted on my Hurco. I spent ages playing around with the velocity mode settings and was never happy with the results. Switching to torque mode made a huge improvement. I think Yaskawas just don't implement velocity mode well. The old velocity DC drives on my router work great apart from the annoying noises they make when stationary as they hunt between encoder counts. There's not much you can do about hunting in velocity mode. Les ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
Awesome that is what wanted to hear! You da man Peter. Thanks so much On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 10:07 Peter C. Wallace, wrote: > On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, andrew beck wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 09:50:47 +1200 > > From: andrew beck > > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > > > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives > > > > Hey todd > > > > The drives are new old drives I found. The existing drives used > mecholink > > control that is to hard to talk to and I had the spare drives sitting in > > shed for years. I paid 10 bucks each lol so that's good at least. > > > > The motors are existing. > > > > I have had to set up lots of stuff on the drives and the only thing that > I > > had to tune them was the auto tuning function. Which was not that good. > > > > So far torque mode has been pretty good. > > > > But I might try two nested loops yet. > > > > Y axis is really good like max following error 0.04 at 16m/min > > > > X axis motor runs out of torque. And just can't keep up. > > > > I can set drive to push 300 percent rated torque through motor briefly. > > What do you guys think of that, is it OK? Factory default is set to 300 > > percent. I changed it to 100 percent > > > > Peak torque of 3X to 5X continuous mode torque is pretty standard for > servo > motor torque limits. By setting this to 100% you are severely handicapping > your > motors. > > > Peter Wallace > Mesa ELectronics > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, andrew beck wrote: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 09:50:47 +1200 From: andrew beck Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives Hey todd The drives are new old drives I found. The existing drives used mecholink control that is to hard to talk to and I had the spare drives sitting in shed for years. I paid 10 bucks each lol so that's good at least. The motors are existing. I have had to set up lots of stuff on the drives and the only thing that I had to tune them was the auto tuning function. Which was not that good. So far torque mode has been pretty good. But I might try two nested loops yet. Y axis is really good like max following error 0.04 at 16m/min X axis motor runs out of torque. And just can't keep up. I can set drive to push 300 percent rated torque through motor briefly. What do you guys think of that, is it OK? Factory default is set to 300 percent. I changed it to 100 percent Peak torque of 3X to 5X continuous mode torque is pretty standard for servo motor torque limits. By setting this to 100% you are severely handicapping your motors. Peter Wallace Mesa ELectronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
Hey todd The drives are new old drives I found. The existing drives used mecholink control that is to hard to talk to and I had the spare drives sitting in shed for years. I paid 10 bucks each lol so that's good at least. The motors are existing. I have had to set up lots of stuff on the drives and the only thing that I had to tune them was the auto tuning function. Which was not that good. So far torque mode has been pretty good. But I might try two nested loops yet. Y axis is really good like max following error 0.04 at 16m/min X axis motor runs out of torque. And just can't keep up. I can set drive to push 300 percent rated torque through motor briefly. What do you guys think of that, is it OK? Factory default is set to 300 percent. I changed it to 100 percent On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, 02:10 Todd Zuercher, wrote: > I have no experience tuning one of those drives. (but my experience with > torque mode was less than wonderful.) Just curious was your machine a > retro fit that was originally equipped with those drives, or is it a new > install of these drives? Were the drives velocity loops tuned for your > machine before you tried to use them? If they weren't properly tuned for > velocity command input on your machine it isn't surprising that they may > not work well in that mode. (While I haven't tuned those drives for > Linuxcnc, I do have a machine that uses them with another control in I > assumed velocity mode, I just haven't had to mess with them.) > > Todd Zuercher > P. Graham Dunn Inc. > 630 Henry Street > Dalton, Ohio 44618 > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > > -Original Message- > From: andrew beck > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2021 2:16 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > > hey everyone > > got good news to report back here! > > i changed to torque tuning and its like 10 times better than velocity > tuning in these drives > > someone one the forum said that he was starting to suspect that the > velocity tuning on the yaskawa drives was really that bad so they allowed a > torque feedforward setting to fix it lol > > anyway my initial findings were torque control is awesome > > i will post back later with more tuning findings > > regards > > Andrew > > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck > wrote: > > > hey everyone > > > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the > > moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and > > then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not > > getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the > > drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings in > > servo drive > > > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just wondering > > if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity control in > > terms of the pid loops and hal layer? or is there another whole level > > of stuff i need to do > > > > and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get > > better performance if using torque mode > > > > anyway let me know your experiences > > > > regards > > > > Andrew > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cfc80be69a1454359543408d96d11c596%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637660745400285926%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=ckvQRiz%2BQ4YLSZDX2NMPq83dEUQkyho5vv1wopbYYKU%3Dreserved=0 > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
On Wednesday 01 September 2021 08:33:41 Todd Zuercher wrote: > I have no experience tuning one of those drives. (but my experience > with torque mode was less than wonderful.) Just curious was your > machine a retro fit that was originally equipped with those drives, or > is it a new install of these drives? Were the drives velocity loops > tuned for your machine before you tried to use them? If they weren't > properly tuned for velocity command input on your machine it isn't > surprising that they may not work well in that mode. (While I haven't > tuned those drives for Linuxcnc, I do have a machine that uses them > with another control in I assumed velocity mode, I just haven't had to > mess with them.) > > Todd Zuercher > P. Graham Dunn Inc. > 630 Henry Street > Dalton, Ohio 44618 > Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 > Breaking thread: Neither have I Todd. But our wiki doesn't seem to have anything like an educational discussion of the different "modes" of setting up a servo given the tools linuxcnc offers. For instance, the servo I designed to run that BS-1 clone is slow as can be because I had to put a limit3 in series with a direction change in order to prevent it from using reversal as a brake, it must be allowed to run down to zero before a reversal since if reverse is used before it stops, the current surge crowbars a 400 watt supply, shutting it down for a cooling recovery of around 2 minutes. And it actually does get hot in that millisecond or so of reverse. I haven't killed the supply, but its sure scary when it happens. Because the peak speed must be so restricted, the working response speed is less than 10% of the speeds its capable of. If it has to home from halfway around, it takes longer to home it than all 3 of the machines other axises in sequence. The wiki needs more attention to the education of the new bee so as to educate the worker bee better. I'll get me coat now. > -Original Message- > From: andrew beck > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2021 2:16 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode > tuning yaskawa servo drives > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. > > hey everyone > > got good news to report back here! > > i changed to torque tuning and its like 10 times better than velocity > tuning in these drives > > someone one the forum said that he was starting to suspect that the > velocity tuning on the yaskawa drives was really that bad so they > allowed a torque feedforward setting to fix it lol > > anyway my initial findings were torque control is awesome > > i will post back later with more tuning findings > > regards > > Andrew > > On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck > > wrote: > > hey everyone > > > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the > > moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and > > then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not > > getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the > > drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings > > in servo drive > > > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just > > wondering if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity > > control in terms of the pid loops and hal layer? or is there > > another whole level of stuff i need to do > > > > and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get > > better performance if using torque mode > > > > anyway let me know your experiences > > > > regards > > > > Andrew > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist >s.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Ctod >dz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cfc80be69a1454359543408d96d11c596%7C5758544c573f4 >7cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637660745400285926%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3 >d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C >1000sdata=ckvQRiz%2BQ4YLSZDX2NMPq83dEUQkyho5vv1wopbYYKU%3Dres >erved=0 > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene> ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
I have no experience tuning one of those drives. (but my experience with torque mode was less than wonderful.) Just curious was your machine a retro fit that was originally equipped with those drives, or is it a new install of these drives? Were the drives velocity loops tuned for your machine before you tried to use them? If they weren't properly tuned for velocity command input on your machine it isn't surprising that they may not work well in that mode. (While I haven't tuned those drives for Linuxcnc, I do have a machine that uses them with another control in I assumed velocity mode, I just haven't had to mess with them.) Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: andrew beck Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2021 2:16 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. hey everyone got good news to report back here! i changed to torque tuning and its like 10 times better than velocity tuning in these drives someone one the forum said that he was starting to suspect that the velocity tuning on the yaskawa drives was really that bad so they allowed a torque feedforward setting to fix it lol anyway my initial findings were torque control is awesome i will post back later with more tuning findings regards Andrew On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck wrote: > hey everyone > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the > moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and > then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not > getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the > drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings in > servo drive > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just wondering > if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity control in > terms of the pid loops and hal layer? or is there another whole level > of stuff i need to do > > and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get > better performance if using torque mode > > anyway let me know your experiences > > regards > > Andrew > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cfc80be69a1454359543408d96d11c596%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637660745400285926%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=ckvQRiz%2BQ4YLSZDX2NMPq83dEUQkyho5vv1wopbYYKU%3Dreserved=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
hey everyone got good news to report back here! i changed to torque tuning and its like 10 times better than velocity tuning in these drives someone one the forum said that he was starting to suspect that the velocity tuning on the yaskawa drives was really that bad so they allowed a torque feedforward setting to fix it lol anyway my initial findings were torque control is awesome i will post back later with more tuning findings regards Andrew On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck wrote: > hey everyone > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the moment > and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and then > control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not getting the > most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the drive starts > vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings in servo drive > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just wondering if > what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity control in terms of > the pid loops and hal layer? or is there another whole level of stuff i > need to do > > and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get better > performance if using torque mode > > anyway let me know your experiences > > regards > > Andrew > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
I'm running Yaskawa SGDA drives on my Hurco and velocity control did not work well. To convert from velocity to torque I just reconfigured the drives and changed the LinuxCNC PID settings. There was no change to the HAL configuration apart from the PID values. Compared to velocity control you need to play around with the PID tuning a lot more. Halscope is pretty much essential then just keep playing with parameters while running a simple program that keeps moving back and forth at rapid speed. After a while you start to get a feel for how each affects the machine. Concentrate on P, I and D first. Once you have those set up feed forward can help improve transient response. Les On 30/08/2021 03:57, andrew beck wrote: hey everyone i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings in servo drive i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just wondering if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity control in terms of the pid loops and hal layer? or is there another whole level of stuff i need to do and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get better performance if using torque mode anyway let me know your experiences regards Andrew ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
Here is the like to a zip file. https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/3190/2PID.zip It is a bit of a complex config with a number of little hal quirks. It is for a cnc router with two spindles and two parallel Z-axis. The two Z axis are set up as a Z and W, and much of the complexity of the config comes from a workaround to allow the W axis to be slaved to the Z axis (using custom M-codes) and have both move together using single Z-axis commands (so that the new tool planner look ahead will run on it.) It uses a Mesa 5i25/7i77 combo to send analog torque commands to some Technics servo drives. It will also help in a torque command set up to have a good computer capable of running a very fast servo-thread with low latency. (Not sure if the newer realtime kernels are capable of this. I'm running Wheezy on this machine.) Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: Todd Zuercher Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 8:28 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. You can do it with one or two PID loops. Personally, with my machine, I found it significantly easier to tune with two loops and work better over a broader range of conditions. But others may have had better luck with one loop. I've posted copies of my config in the forums before. I'll have to dig up the link and post it here. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: andrew beck Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 1:40 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. just a quick follow up to make this question more general for everyone i really just want a working config from someone that has the torque mode servo stuff in linuxcnc working. i am getting confused if i need two nested PID loops or if i can just use the default velocity control setup On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck wrote: > hey everyone > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the > moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and > then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not > getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the > drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings in > servo drive > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just wondering > if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity control in > terms of the pid loops and hal layer? or is there another whole level > of stuff i need to do > > and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get > better performance if using torque mode > > anyway let me know your experiences > > regards > > Andrew > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cc851967083f74ca0d3c608d96bb1a3c8%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637659232961912543%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=5xe3FBRZEFIXz1aH4x%2B8lMd%2FyyKxZRlmQqm7MBmMhQU%3Dreserved=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cc851967083f74ca0d3c608d96bb1a3c8%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637659232961912543%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=5xe3FBRZEFIXz1aH4x%2B8lMd%2FyyKxZRlmQqm7MBmMhQU%3Dreserved=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
You can do it with one or two PID loops. Personally, with my machine, I found it significantly easier to tune with two loops and work better over a broader range of conditions. But others may have had better luck with one loop. I've posted copies of my config in the forums before. I'll have to dig up the link and post it here. Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -Original Message- From: andrew beck Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 1:40 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. just a quick follow up to make this question more general for everyone i really just want a working config from someone that has the torque mode servo stuff in linuxcnc working. i am getting confused if i need two nested PID loops or if i can just use the default velocity control setup On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck wrote: > hey everyone > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the > moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and > then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not > getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the > drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings in > servo drive > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just wondering > if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity control in > terms of the pid loops and hal layer? or is there another whole level > of stuff i need to do > > and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get > better performance if using torque mode > > anyway let me know your experiences > > regards > > Andrew > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Cf2a69a7e71d845d8b57b08d96b7a69d6%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637658995768242951%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=%2BzBZerFEpxlzX%2BE03043V5kbGJK3SLiaudCAJwTMMSc%3Dreserved=0 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
just a quick follow up to make this question more general for everyone i really just want a working config from someone that has the torque mode servo stuff in linuxcnc working. i am getting confused if i need two nested PID loops or if i can just use the default velocity control setup On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:57 PM andrew beck wrote: > hey everyone > > i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the moment > and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. > > currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and then > control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not getting the > most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the drive starts > vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings in servo drive > > i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just wondering if > what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity control in terms of > the pid loops and hal layer? or is there another whole level of stuff i > need to do > > and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get better > performance if using torque mode > > anyway let me know your experiences > > regards > > Andrew > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] torque mode tuning yaskawa servo drives
hey everyone i am trying to tune my yaskawa sigma 1 series servo drive at the moment and thinking about using torque mode for tuning. currently the process is auto tune drives to a rigidity setting and then control drives with velocity reference in linuxcnc. I am not getting the most amazing control and any P value over 8 means the drive starts vibrating. i have tried a range of rigidity settings in servo drive i have never set up linuxcnc to control torque mode and just wondering if what the correct way is? is it the same as velocity control in terms of the pid loops and hal layer? or is there another whole level of stuff i need to do and i saw that i needed to speed up the servo thread a bit to get better performance if using torque mode anyway let me know your experiences regards Andrew ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
