Re: [Emc-users] Damper Q?
Sad to hear that Gene. My thoughts are with you! Ray M. --J. Ray Mitchell Jr. jrmitche...@gmail.com (818)324-7573 The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:20 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Friday 12 December 2014 14:42:26 skullwo...@yahoo.com did opine And Gene did reply: Gene; Have you tried the motor without the damper? Not since putting a D525MW based machine in that position. This setup is still a software driven pulser. Seems the whole damper kludge was to make up for primitive half full step drives being fed a pulse stream of questionable consistency. I expect there is that too. I am running 2M542's for drivers, set at x8 stepper divisors. And I do expect to get another 5i25 put it in that machine as I am very impressed with how it works on the lathe. Between that, and I just rx'd a stack of 48 volt, 3,3 amp supplies that I'll turn down to 45 volts if they'll go that low. Whatever all 5 of them will turn down to, parallel them with .5 ohm isolation R's, into a big Sangamo cap, and run all motors from the capacitor. That should give the 2M542's a place to throw the switching current back flows without causing the supplies to trip off, a major problem in an older setup I had lashed together at one time about a decade back. I've no idea what sort of shutdown or over current fold back these units might do, so it remains TBD as to whether or not they can start and charge a 73,000 uf cap. OTOH, I also have some 6300 uf'ers at 35 volts, 2 of those in series with resistive voltage balancing would be a lot less inrush at power up, and still ought to gobble up whatever the dancing motors can throw at them. On the flip side - the rattle dampers using cylinder shaped weights needs to be loose and dry to work. Tests done with oil added proved this causing the damper to become effectively a fly wheel and making performance even worse then running nothing on the motor rear shaft. I'd assume you mean by the attainable accels? Or by the attainable speeds before stalls? However, progress on this will be slow till warmer weather comes round again. I need to round up the 5i25, and another motor as I caught the power cable for the Y over the end of a board last week and ripped the wires out of the 225oz nema 23 on it, and had to put my last only spare 425 on it. My back after this past weekend is giving me hell I need to arrange for some more cortisone shots before I can do a hell of a lot more. This past weekend was a bit of a whirlwind. My oldest son took a bottle and a kia and killed himself last Thursday, so I was up at 3:30ish Friday morning to catch a plane to Omaha putting me in driving range of the weekends events, so I was in Yates Center KS Saturday saw another son get married, to a girl he brought with him to visit last fall, and I told him then she was a keeper. So they did it on a date that will never come around again for 1k years, 12/13/14. Then a motel for the night, getting up the next morning heading for Central City NE, arriving after visitation got started, no casket because he was cremated, saw that thru and had a couple meetings with his widow Lesa, and since all the rest of my boys (now 4) were there, we had a meeting and I came away with a partial list of who gets what when my time is up. But then the conversation got side tracked and we now have tentative plans to go on a Texas pig hunt sometime next fall. Apparently as guest of the boys. Thats the plan anyway. ;-) Then back to my youngun's place in Nebraska City let my back rest Monday morning, went to work with him in the afternoon, he works at a service facility that specializes in repair and re-certification of stuff used in the Nuclear industry, and wound up actually doing some work, teaching school as it were. Patrick intro'd me around to the rest of the crew as hands down the smartest person in the building. I may have been, but IMO that also tends to make the rest of the frogs a bit wary. But I am also pleased as punch that he thinks so. :) FWIW, there are people on this list that fit in that category too, and you know who you are. And, because you do know who you are, you know why I write the above. Patrick is learning a lot working there, and for a boy who got a bit of a slow start as he was born deaf, and lived on a pre-digested formula for the first 2 years, but his ears at about 5 yo started to work and now in his mid 30's, hears at least as well as I do at 80. I have a study course on passing the C.E.T. exam
Re: [Emc-users] Damper Q?
On Sunday 21 December 2014 13:09:31 jrmitchellj . did opine And Gene did reply: Sad to hear that Gene. My thoughts are with you! Ray M. --J. Ray Mitchell Jr. jrmitche...@gmail.com (818)324-7573 Thanks Ray, I appreciate them. I've temporarily pushed the new mill motor supply bits pieces to the back of the queue until a function generator I bought on fleabay gets here, s/b shipped Monday. Then I can see just how well a 425 can be driven when the driver is set for /25, the max it can divide a step into, and doable with a 5i25, but not with software stepping. Current running at /8, and quite audible. In the meantime, making red sawdust at the chop saw, and out of the random orbit sander and curly cues out of a Bailey #7 jointer plane, building the blanket chest on the front cover of the fall issue of Fine WordWorking. I just sawed out to test the joint fit, the lid, and am somewhat amazed at the real estate that puppy takes up, currently 41.25x 22 wide. Breadboard ends will take it out to around 46 long overall. Supposed to be 22.125, but try as I may, I can't make 4 ea 5.5 wide boards stretch that far. So the whole thing will shrink 1/8 in depth front to back, nominally, depends on how much I lose jointing it. It will shrink internally anyway as I am going to line it with removable for sanding, aromatic cedar TG closet liner. I figure if I do it, I may as well do it first class. :) [...] Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Damper Q?
On Friday 12 December 2014 14:42:26 skullwo...@yahoo.com did opine And Gene did reply: Gene; Have you tried the motor without the damper? Not since putting a D525MW based machine in that position. This setup is still a software driven pulser. Seems the whole damper kludge was to make up for primitive half full step drives being fed a pulse stream of questionable consistency. I expect there is that too. I am running 2M542's for drivers, set at x8 stepper divisors. And I do expect to get another 5i25 put it in that machine as I am very impressed with how it works on the lathe. Between that, and I just rx'd a stack of 48 volt, 3,3 amp supplies that I'll turn down to 45 volts if they'll go that low. Whatever all 5 of them will turn down to, parallel them with .5 ohm isolation R's, into a big Sangamo cap, and run all motors from the capacitor. That should give the 2M542's a place to throw the switching current back flows without causing the supplies to trip off, a major problem in an older setup I had lashed together at one time about a decade back. I've no idea what sort of shutdown or over current fold back these units might do, so it remains TBD as to whether or not they can start and charge a 73,000 uf cap. OTOH, I also have some 6300 uf'ers at 35 volts, 2 of those in series with resistive voltage balancing would be a lot less inrush at power up, and still ought to gobble up whatever the dancing motors can throw at them. On the flip side - the rattle dampers using cylinder shaped weights needs to be loose and dry to work. Tests done with oil added proved this causing the damper to become effectively a fly wheel and making performance even worse then running nothing on the motor rear shaft. I'd assume you mean by the attainable accels? Or by the attainable speeds before stalls? However, progress on this will be slow till warmer weather comes round again. I need to round up the 5i25, and another motor as I caught the power cable for the Y over the end of a board last week and ripped the wires out of the 225oz nema 23 on it, and had to put my last only spare 425 on it. My back after this past weekend is giving me hell I need to arrange for some more cortisone shots before I can do a hell of a lot more. This past weekend was a bit of a whirlwind. My oldest son took a bottle and a kia and killed himself last Thursday, so I was up at 3:30ish Friday morning to catch a plane to Omaha putting me in driving range of the weekends events, so I was in Yates Center KS Saturday saw another son get married, to a girl he brought with him to visit last fall, and I told him then she was a keeper. So they did it on a date that will never come around again for 1k years, 12/13/14. Then a motel for the night, getting up the next morning heading for Central City NE, arriving after visitation got started, no casket because he was cremated, saw that thru and had a couple meetings with his widow Lesa, and since all the rest of my boys (now 4) were there, we had a meeting and I came away with a partial list of who gets what when my time is up. But then the conversation got side tracked and we now have tentative plans to go on a Texas pig hunt sometime next fall. Apparently as guest of the boys. Thats the plan anyway. ;-) Then back to my youngun's place in Nebraska City let my back rest Monday morning, went to work with him in the afternoon, he works at a service facility that specializes in repair and re-certification of stuff used in the Nuclear industry, and wound up actually doing some work, teaching school as it were. Patrick intro'd me around to the rest of the crew as hands down the smartest person in the building. I may have been, but IMO that also tends to make the rest of the frogs a bit wary. But I am also pleased as punch that he thinks so. :) FWIW, there are people on this list that fit in that category too, and you know who you are. And, because you do know who you are, you know why I write the above. Patrick is learning a lot working there, and for a boy who got a bit of a slow start as he was born deaf, and lived on a pre-digested formula for the first 2 years, but his ears at about 5 yo started to work and now in his mid 30's, hears at least as well as I do at 80. I have a study course on passing the C.E.T. exam that I will pack up and send him as it may help advance his knowledge. A refresher course for ancient C.E.T.'s like me since my certificate dates from 1972. Retracing my steps to fall out of a Saab 340B in Bridgeport just minutes shy of midnight last night, its been a very busy weekend with a few tears thrown in that I'll remember for a while. As the old saw goes, a man is not supposed to outlive his git, but I have now outlived the mother of those 3 children and all 3 of them. That was the last of the children Annie gave me back in the late 50's early 60's. And that is truly sad. I saw this coming I must
Re: [Emc-users] Damper Q?
Gene; Have you tried the motor without the damper? Seems the whole damper kludge was to make up for primitive half full step drives being fed a pulse stream of questionable consistency. On the flip side - the rattle dampers using cylinder shaped weights needs to be loose and dry to work. Tests done with oil added proved this causing the damper to become effectively a fly wheel and making performance even worse then running nothing on the motor rear shaft. Sent via iPod -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Damper Q?
Also remember that a larger stepper usually isn't going to be able to go quite as fast as a smaller one. - Original Message - From: Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 6:45:14 AM Subject: [Emc-users] Damper Q? Hello all again; Those who use the big stack of heavy fender washers, held between rubber washers that fit the hub tightly, on a long drum that holds about a 2 stack of these might be able to comment here. This bigger motor seems quite a bit noisier that the old 252 oz/in motor was, and much of it seems to be coming from the damper, which I haven't adjusted the clamping pressure on the stack for quite a while. Its rattling, and I note that the washers are fairly easy to turn. So obviously as a torsional vibration absorber they are not working at all well. And the mill I believe is being speed restricted because of that. How hard do you folks clamp them up? Is there a generalized rule of thumb, or is it closer to black magic to get it right? Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Damper Q?
On Thursday 11 December 2014 07:56:51 Todd Zuercher did opine And Gene did reply: Also remember that a larger stepper usually isn't going to be able to go quite as fast as a smaller one. I thought that too, and had the old motor limited to 22 ipm because I only have 28 volts for motor power. That will be fixed in the next month as I have some 48 volt supplies coming that I will rework into a supply per motor system since they are only 3.5 amp rated supplies. If I can turn them down to 45 volts, the 50 volt rated drivers should be ok. The thought also crossed my mind to parallel them, with .1 ohm isolation R's into a good sized capacitor and treat them as one supply If I can get the voltages to match. That might stop any surge shutdowns they may do because at one point I was using a cheap switcher, two of them in series, to get the volts I needed, but the back dump from the motors kept shutting them off, one at a time. Weird effect then, the motor could turn, but only at about 10 rpm. This bigger one seems happy at that speed limit, but is considerably noisier than the older, weaker motor was. I wish now that I had built the end rings that hold all this together with a locking setscrew, with threads so I could turn it on the threads for a more precise adjustment. I have to go make a duplicate of the jig setup I made last night, but will tighten up the clamp ring as far as I can compress it by hand before I do, to see if that reduces/stops the rattling at mid speed noise. I read up on the rattler version last night, and may make one of them for testing, but will mill for a inner and outer o-rings on both faces to seal in the heavy grease or STP I'll put in the pockets that hold the weights. Seems to me that may be a better design than these but use the viscosity of the grease or STP as energy absorber. That should stop the rattling while still doing its job. The size of the hole containing the weight roller vs the size of the roller strikes me as being important and shouldn't be more than the equ of a single step at that radii for clearance. The step being 1.8 degrees of course. All that of course if this tightening of what I have doesn't bring the noise under control. Thanks Todd. - Original Message - From: Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 6:45:14 AM Subject: [Emc-users] Damper Q? Hello all again; Those who use the big stack of heavy fender washers, held between rubber washers that fit the hub tightly, on a long drum that holds about a 2 stack of these might be able to comment here. This bigger motor seems quite a bit noisier that the old 252 oz/in motor was, and much of it seems to be coming from the damper, which I haven't adjusted the clamping pressure on the stack for quite a while. Its rattling, and I note that the washers are fairly easy to turn. So obviously as a torsional vibration absorber they are not working at all well. And the mill I believe is being speed restricted because of that. How hard do you folks clamp them up? Is there a generalized rule of thumb, or is it closer to black magic to get it right? Cheers, Gene Heskett Cheers, Gene Heskett -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
