Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
It's 5mm pitch and I do have some. But that part of the board has also been overheated and is slightly darker. It may be best to leave well enough alone. I still have two STMBLs and two extra drivers. Might just look for a AC/DC servo to replace the stepper motor and get more than 25 ipm too. One that fits. John > -Original Message- > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > Sent: April-07-20 10:04 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure > > On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 17:42, John Dammeyer wrote: > > > > I'm going to take it apart one more time I think and remove the solder and > > resolder the two pins with the crystalized overheated > solder joints. Although it might also be better to leave well enough alone. > > I think I would be tempted to desolder the whole strip and replace > with fixed clamps. > eg: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-terminal-blocks/2901315/ > (picture is not of the 12-way part, and the pitch might be wrong) > > > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On Tue, 7 Apr 2020 at 17:42, John Dammeyer wrote: > > I'm going to take it apart one more time I think and remove the solder and > resolder the two pins with the crystalized overheated solder joints. > Although it might also be better to leave well enough alone. I think I would be tempted to desolder the whole strip and replace with fixed clamps. eg: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-terminal-blocks/2901315/ (picture is not of the 12-way part, and the pitch might be wrong) -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
I'm going to take it apart one more time I think and remove the solder and resolder the two pins with the crystalized overheated solder joints. Although it might also be better to leave well enough alone. John > -Original Message- > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > Sent: April-07-20 8:38 AM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure > > On 04/06/2020 06:16 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > > Then cover back on and all together into the machine. The Z axis works > > perfectly. The drive doesn't get any warmer than it did > before. As in I can hold my hand on the heatsink and it's barely warm. The > connector also does not feel warm nor do the wires. > > > > > Wow, I think you got lucky! But, good news that the driver > is not bad. > > Jon > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On 04/06/2020 06:16 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: Then cover back on and all together into the machine. The Z axis works perfectly. The drive doesn't get any warmer than it did before. As in I can hold my hand on the heatsink and it's barely warm. The connector also does not feel warm nor do the wires. Wow, I think you got lucky! But, good news that the driver is not bad. Jon ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
Many die cast items of the 1940's back to the introduction of the process suffered from "tin pest" where just sitting around at room temperature they'd crumble over time. The right balance of metals in the alloy made it stable. Same goes for solders. Lead made the casting alloy and solder melt at lower temperatures and kept the tin from oxidizing or doing any of the other weird shiznit tin can do, like growing crystalline "whiskers" that can short out electronics. On Monday, April 6, 2020, 1:46:11 PM MDT, Peter Blodow wrote: Gentlemen, tin happens to stand near to the transition metals in the periodic system and thus tends to slowly turn from metallic (conductive) to crystaline (noc-conductive) as time goes on. At room temperature this takes very long, say 10 years or more, at low temperature faster, especially below -20 or -30 degrees Celsius. I had such a problem with my refrigerator where the temperature sensor or its plug developed high resistance, freezing all the contents to -10 degrees over night. A temporary means to fix this is to waggle the connectors from time to time. Napoleons soldiers in Russia in 1812 had tin buttons on their uniform trousers and jackets which turned into crumbs in siberian winter, a great problem for the great emperor. Always chose galvanized golden pins and connectors! Peter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
Hi Jon, Well now that I've had a winter of no rivers flowing through the shop I can finally approach a renovation that will drop the moisture further and generally make it a nicer place to work. Sometime this summer I think. I'm going to go with the concept that somehow high moisture corrosion like I've been experiencing in the shop this winter has some caused the problem. I have a photo from last April that shows pristine wires. A photo from November shows the white wire is discoloured but I hadn't noticed that the last time I had my head in the cabinet. So here's the latest status report: I washed the connector pins and the area around the connector with flux remover and a soft tooth brush. Then first scraped and finally with 600g wet/dry made the pins look nicer than the ones on the resistor end. Washed and cleaned again with flux remover. Blow dry. I then cut back some of the wires that had discoloured and stripped, tinned and flattened them. This is temporary. No point in wasting ferrules if the driver was shot. Used a connector from the G320X driver I have here. Then cover back on and all together into the machine. The Z axis works perfectly. The drive doesn't get any warmer than it did before. As in I can hold my hand on the heatsink and it's barely warm. The connector also does not feel warm nor do the wires. I finished the milling project I started yesterday. Tonight I'll pull it out again, remove the solder from the two badly pitted joints and re-solder them since they are now suspect. Thanks for everyone's comments. John > -Original Message- > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > Sent: April-06-20 3:42 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure > > On 04/06/2020 03:36 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > > I have a Raspberry PiZeroW reporting this: > > T=15.6C,RH=55.0%,DP=6.6C And yet I've had more surface > > rust on everything this year than over the last 10. Go > > figure. There shouldn't be any moisture condensing on > > anything with a dew point at 6.6C. And yet... John > No, the tin problem does NOT require condensing levels of > humidity. RH 55% is bad enough. > And, it probably is just like that in my basement sometimes, > too. Some tin-plated connectors have enough > contact pressure to hold this issue at bay, some don't. I > have real Phoenix Contact connectors on > my PPMC boards, and I still had the one that supplies power > to the PPMC motherboard get a high resistance contact some > years ago. The PPMC kept working fine at 4 V, but the > encoders started dropping counts. It took me a long time to > discover that one. it was so subtle, but parts were coming > out the wrong size (too big). > > Rust on steel definitely doesn't require condensing, either. > > Jon > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On 04/06/2020 03:36 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: I have a Raspberry PiZeroW reporting this: T=15.6C,RH=55.0%,DP=6.6C And yet I've had more surface rust on everything this year than over the last 10. Go figure. There shouldn't be any moisture condensing on anything with a dew point at 6.6C. And yet... John No, the tin problem does NOT require condensing levels of humidity. RH 55% is bad enough. And, it probably is just like that in my basement sometimes, too. Some tin-plated connectors have enough contact pressure to hold this issue at bay, some don't. I have real Phoenix Contact connectors on my PPMC boards, and I still had the one that supplies power to the PPMC motherboard get a high resistance contact some years ago. The PPMC kept working fine at 4 V, but the encoders started dropping counts. It took me a long time to discover that one. it was so subtle, but parts were coming out the wrong size (too big). Rust on steel definitely doesn't require condensing, either. Jon ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
> -Original Message- > From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] > Sent: April-06-20 1:24 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure > > On 04/06/2020 11:43 AM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > > > The general problem with Tin connectors is that they have > > a positive feedback failure mechanism if used anywhere > > near their current limits, their contact resistance rises > > over time and heat exposure and the higher the resistance, > > the high the temperature and the faster this degradation > > progresses... > > > Even worse is intermittent usage in a humid environment. > The tin oxidizes, grows whiskers and > just generally degrades in humid conditions. Then, when you > try to pull a lot of current, you > get a high resistance contact. My guess is that's what happened and it resulted in current flow between the pins of the windings. And then it fed on itself. What's frustrating this winter is that a year ago January I had the perimeter drain pipe around the house replace and added around the garage section. This hear no rivers running through after massive rain storms. I have a Raspberry PiZeroW reporting this: T=15.6C,RH=55.0%,DP=6.6C And yet I've had more surface rust on everything this year than over the last 10. Go figure. There shouldn't be any moisture condensing on anything with a dew point at 6.6C. And yet... John > > Jon > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On 04/06/2020 11:43 AM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: The general problem with Tin connectors is that they have a positive feedback failure mechanism if used anywhere near their current limits, their contact resistance rises over time and heat exposure and the higher the resistance, the high the temperature and the faster this degradation progresses... Even worse is intermittent usage in a humid environment. The tin oxidizes, grows whiskers and just generally degrades in humid conditions. Then, when you try to pull a lot of current, you get a high resistance contact. Jon ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
> -Original Message- > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > Sent: April-06-20 1:15 PM > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure > > On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 21:07, John Dammeyer wrote: > > > I checked and from Pheonix any sort of gold flash isn't available. They > > are on 6mm spacing and although installed as a 12 > position I can cut and remove only the 6 on the LHS. But what to replace > them with? > > Maybe a soldered-in cage-clamp header? How useful is unpluggability? > I have an AMP CPC connector at the panel. The motor plugs into that from the outside world. This could run directly to the board and be soldered to the pins. There is absolutely no damage on the CPC connector pins and they've been in service for the same length of time as the driver and motor. John > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 21:07, John Dammeyer wrote: > I checked and from Pheonix any sort of gold flash isn't available. They are > on 6mm spacing and although installed as a 12 position I can cut and remove > only the 6 on the LHS. But what to replace them with? Maybe a soldered-in cage-clamp header? How useful is unpluggability? -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
I checked and from Pheonix any sort of gold flash isn't available. They are on 6mm spacing and although installed as a 12 position I can cut and remove only the 6 on the LHS. But what to replace them with? John > -Original Message- > From: Peter Blodow [mailto:p.blo...@dreki.de] > Sent: April-06-20 12:43 PM > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure > > Gentlemen, > tin happens to stand near to the transition metals in the periodic > system and thus tends to slowly turn from metallic (conductive) to > crystaline (noc-conductive) as time goes on. At room temperature this > takes very long, say 10 years or more, at low temperature faster, > especially below -20 or -30 degrees Celsius. I had such a problem with > my refrigerator where the temperature sensor or its plug developed high > resistance, freezing all the contents to -10 degrees over night. A > temporary means to fix this is to waggle the connectors from time to > time. Napoleons soldiers in Russia in 1812 had tin buttons on their > uniform trousers and jackets which turned into crumbs in siberian > winter, a great problem for the great emperor. > > Always chose galvanized golden pins and connectors! > > Peter > > > > Am 06.04.2020 um 18:43 schrieb Peter C. Wallace: > > On Mon, 6 Apr 2020, Jon Elson wrote: > > > >> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:27:23 -0500 > >> From: Jon Elson > >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > >> > >> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > >> > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure > >> > >> On 04/05/2020 11:24 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > >>> Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? > >>> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg > >>> > >>> It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. > >>> > >>> > >> Typical result of a high-resistance connection getting hot. And, > >> almost everybody in the industrial connector business makes these > >> "Euro-style" connectors, so I'm sure for cost reasons Gecko does > >> NOT use Phoenix Contact parts, but a Chinese equivalent. > >> > >> It may also be that transistors in the Gecko failed and it put full > >> DC supply voltage on the motor winding > >> until fuses or whatever blew. > >> > >> Jon > >> > > > > > > Yeah, its unusual for the drive power connections to fail since they > > typically have low average current. Its much more common for the motor > > connections to fail > > > > The general problem with Tin connectors is that they have a positive > > feedback failure mechanism if used anywhere near their current > > limits,� their contact resistance rises over time and heat exposure > > and the higher the resistance, > > the high the temperature and the faster this degradation progresses... > > > > Peter Wallace > > Mesa Electronics > > > > > > _______ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > Am 06.04.2020 um 18:43 schrieb Peter C. Wallace: > > On Mon, 6 Apr 2020, Jon Elson wrote: > > > >> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:27:23 -0500 > >> From: Jon Elson > >> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > >> ��� > >> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" > >> > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure > >> > >> On 04/05/2020 11:24 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: > >>> Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? > >>> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg > >>> > >>> It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. > >>> > >>> > >> Typical result of a high-resistance connection getting hot. And, > >> almost everybody in the industrial connector business makes these > >> "Euro-style" connectors, so I'm sure for cost reasons Gecko does > >> NOT use Phoenix Contact parts, but a Chinese equivalent. > >> > >> It may also be that transistors in the Gecko failed and it put full > >> DC supply voltage on the motor winding > >> until fuses or whatever blew. > >> > >> Jon > >> > > > > > > Yeah, its unusual for the drive power connections to fail si
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
Gentlemen, tin happens to stand near to the transition metals in the periodic system and thus tends to slowly turn from metallic (conductive) to crystaline (noc-conductive) as time goes on. At room temperature this takes very long, say 10 years or more, at low temperature faster, especially below -20 or -30 degrees Celsius. I had such a problem with my refrigerator where the temperature sensor or its plug developed high resistance, freezing all the contents to -10 degrees over night. A temporary means to fix this is to waggle the connectors from time to time. Napoleons soldiers in Russia in 1812 had tin buttons on their uniform trousers and jackets which turned into crumbs in siberian winter, a great problem for the great emperor. Always chose galvanized golden pins and connectors! Peter Am 06.04.2020 um 18:43 schrieb Peter C. Wallace: On Mon, 6 Apr 2020, Jon Elson wrote: Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:27:23 -0500 From: Jon Elson Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure On 04/05/2020 11:24 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. Typical result of a high-resistance connection getting hot. And, almost everybody in the industrial connector business makes these "Euro-style" connectors, so I'm sure for cost reasons Gecko does NOT use Phoenix Contact parts, but a Chinese equivalent. It may also be that transistors in the Gecko failed and it put full DC supply voltage on the motor winding until fuses or whatever blew. Jon Yeah, its unusual for the drive power connections to fail since they typically have low average current. Its much more common for the motor connections to fail The general problem with Tin connectors is that they have a positive feedback failure mechanism if used anywhere near their current limits, their contact resistance rises over time and heat exposure and the higher the resistance, the high the temperature and the faster this degradation progresses... Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Am 06.04.2020 um 18:43 schrieb Peter C. Wallace: On Mon, 6 Apr 2020, Jon Elson wrote: Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:27:23 -0500 From: Jon Elson Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure On 04/05/2020 11:24 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. Typical result of a high-resistance connection getting hot. And, almost everybody in the industrial connector business makes these "Euro-style" connectors, so I'm sure for cost reasons Gecko does NOT use Phoenix Contact parts, but a Chinese equivalent. It may also be that transistors in the Gecko failed and it put full DC supply voltage on the motor winding until fuses or whatever blew. Jon Yeah, its unusual for the drive power connections to fail since they typically have low average current. Its much more common for the motor connections to fail The general problem with Tin connectors is that they have a positive feedback failure mechanism if used anywhere near their current limits, their contact resistance rises over time and heat exposure and the higher the resistance, the high the temperature and the faster this degradation progresses... Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
> From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk] > > This is interesting, for two reasons: > 1. I had two Geckos fail last year, after 10 years or so running at 78 volts. > The Gecko pins were not burnt, but I did burn a pin on a > heavy duty 5 pin XLR connector, twice on the same connector.Gecko combination. > 2. I suffered intermittent failure on one axis, and simply could not find > what was causing the trouble. Swapped cables; waggled > cables; replaced the cable connectors; no luck at all. > > Finally, one Gecko 210 failed. So, I swapped the leads to the Gecko for > another axis I wasn't using for the job (4th axis). > Spectacular Bang and I lost that Gecko too. Expensive. Almost shed a tear. > It may be the fault of the intermittent connections Rafael mentions (Thanks > for that info). > > I replaced the 210 duds with the 213V model, which seem to give a smoother > drive but which, crucially, will drop out and indicate > an error rather than act like fuses. Yes. For the past few weeks I´ve had the Gecko´s fault for no reason. Now, in hindsight, that should have been a huge alarm flag. I thought maybe the backlash on LinuxCNC which steps faster than the max step rate may have somehow caused that since I was doing a lot of Z axis passes and suddenly losing position as the drive faulted. So I lowered the overall speed of the axis and the problem seemed to go away. Until yesterday just as I was running a check on the paths with the tool clear of the work. Now I know that if the alarm LED goes on to pull the drive and clean connectors etc. Assuming I buy a replacement Gecko if this one can´t be repaired. John > > I must dig out the old duds and check the connectors, out of interest. > > Marcus > > > On 6 Apr 2020, at 16:50, Dave Cole wrote: > > > > > I agree, however I wonder how long you have to wait until the Phoenix > > connector rises again??? ;-) > > > > And perhaps it needs to be further burnt to complete "ashes" ?? > > > > Perhaps a call to the Phoenix connector support hotline is in order? > > > > ;-) > > > > Dave > > > > On 4/6/2020 9:58 AM, andy pugh wrote: > >> On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 14:55, andy pugh wrote: > >> > >>> I wonder if that is a real or fake Phoenix connector? > >> I suppose you will know if a new connector arises from the ashes. > >> > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020, Jon Elson wrote: Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:27:23 -0500 From: Jon Elson Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure On 04/05/2020 11:24 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. Typical result of a high-resistance connection getting hot. And, almost everybody in the industrial connector business makes these "Euro-style" connectors, so I'm sure for cost reasons Gecko does NOT use Phoenix Contact parts, but a Chinese equivalent. It may also be that transistors in the Gecko failed and it put full DC supply voltage on the motor winding until fuses or whatever blew. Jon Yeah, its unusual for the drive power connections to fail since they typically have low average current. Its much more common for the motor connections to fail The general problem with Tin connectors is that they have a positive feedback failure mechanism if used anywhere near their current limits, their contact resistance rises over time and heat exposure and the higher the resistance, the high the temperature and the faster this degradation progresses... Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
This is interesting, for two reasons: 1. I had two Geckos fail last year, after 10 years or so running at 78 volts. The Gecko pins were not burnt, but I did burn a pin on a heavy duty 5 pin XLR connector, twice on the same connector.Gecko combination. 2. I suffered intermittent failure on one axis, and simply could not find what was causing the trouble. Swapped cables; waggled cables; replaced the cable connectors; no luck at all. Finally, one Gecko 210 failed. So, I swapped the leads to the Gecko for another axis I wasn't using for the job (4th axis). Spectacular Bang and I lost that Gecko too. Expensive. Almost shed a tear. It may be the fault of the intermittent connections Rafael mentions (Thanks for that info). I replaced the 210 duds with the 213V model, which seem to give a smoother drive but which, crucially, will drop out and indicate an error rather than act like fuses. I must dig out the old duds and check the connectors, out of interest. Marcus On 6 Apr 2020, at 16:50, Dave Cole wrote: > > I agree, however I wonder how long you have to wait until the Phoenix > connector rises again??? ;-) > > And perhaps it needs to be further burnt to complete "ashes" ?? > > Perhaps a call to the Phoenix connector support hotline is in order? > > ;-) > > Dave > > On 4/6/2020 9:58 AM, andy pugh wrote: >> On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 14:55, andy pugh wrote: >> >>> I wonder if that is a real or fake Phoenix connector? >> I suppose you will know if a new connector arises from the ashes. >> > > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On 04/05/2020 11:24 PM, John Dammeyer wrote: Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. Typical result of a high-resistance connection getting hot. And, almost everybody in the industrial connector business makes these "Euro-style" connectors, so I'm sure for cost reasons Gecko does NOT use Phoenix Contact parts, but a Chinese equivalent. It may also be that transistors in the Gecko failed and it put full DC supply voltage on the motor winding until fuses or whatever blew. Jon ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
Thanks everyone. The invoice for this drive is dated 07JUN2011. The drive was in use for most of that time with the step/dir from an extra ELS I had around. Saved cranking up/down with a handle that didn't fit well. Last spring I started on the CNC conversion and I have a photo from mid April that shows pristine wires. Another photo from November that shows the white wire is already discoloured a bit. So it was during the period where I also had major rust issues for the first time in 10 years that this also happened. I recall seeing some white fuzz around the power wireson the Gecko a few weeks ago. I blew it off with the air compressor with full intentions of taking a closer look. But COVID-19 has distracted me and my attention has been less on the mill and more on the foundry with the construction of a pipe crucible lifter and pouring shank. Except when I've used the mill to cut some of the parts so the mill has had some use. I've sent detailed photos to Gecko. I don't want to clean up the board until I hear back from them in case they want to look at it more closely. Otherwise I have a couple of G320X units in stock so I can borrow a connector from there after I clean up the pins on the G213V. I pulled out the macro lens and ring flash setup for my Nikon for a close up on the pins. http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Terminals.jpg John ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
I agree, however I wonder how long you have to wait until the Phoenix connector rises again??? ;-) And perhaps it needs to be further burnt to complete "ashes" ?? Perhaps a call to the Phoenix connector support hotline is in order? ;-) Dave On 4/6/2020 9:58 AM, andy pugh wrote: On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 14:55, andy pugh wrote: I wonder if that is a real or fake Phoenix connector? I suppose you will know if a new connector arises from the ashes. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
John, On 2020-04-05 21:24, John Dammeyer wrote: Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg This is typical for poor connection in environment with mechanical vibrations as in CNC. Gecko driver itself has nothing to do with it I believe. In my hardware support years I checked female parts of pins to make sure they are narrower than the male part thickness every time there were "power related issues". You can use a scribe or a larger needle to push halfs of female section towards the center. In some cases I pressed that part out of the plastic first then used pliers to squeeze the metal part then pushed it back into plastic part of connector. Power connectors for hard drives and floppy drives needed that treatment in old PCs using much less current than your CNC motor. Same in power supplies on mainframe systems. Without seeing that kind of connector from close it's hard to say if this is doable or needed in your case. The burned out connector needs to be replaced first and male part needs cleaning. In some cases you need to re-solder it because it gets lose during overheating. You can try to use different kind of connectors with screws to tighten the connection. That depends on space between the pins on Gecko side. It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. John I hope it's helpful. -- Rafael ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 14:22, Todd Zuercher wrote: > > I've seen Phoenix connectors fail similarly on step motor drives. But they > usually went noticeably intermittent long before they looked quite that bad. I wonder if that is a real or fake Phoenix connector? -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 at 14:55, andy pugh wrote: > I wonder if that is a real or fake Phoenix connector? I suppose you will know if a new connector arises from the ashes. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
I've seen Phoenix connectors fail similarly on step motor drives. But they usually went noticeably intermittent long before they looked quite that bad. Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: John Dammeyer Date: 4/6/20 12:25 AM (GMT-05:00) To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" Subject: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. John ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Gecko Failure
I'd contact Geckodrive and send them that picture. Dave On 4/6/2020 12:24 AM, John Dammeyer wrote: Anyone ever run into this sort of thing with a G213V driver? http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/G213V-Failure.jpg It was running the Knee with a 1200 oz-in motor and 60VDC power supply. John ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
