Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-21 Thread Tom Easterday
1000 words have been added :-)  I updated the wiki page 
(http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine) with a system 
wiring schematic.  There is a pdf version and an Eagle (v6.1.0 - won't open in 
version 5) .sch file.  Follow toc link 2.4 Wiring Diagram.  I also added our 
Mesa 7i43 (400k version) firmware files.

The only thing missing from the schematic (I believe) is a small circuit that 
provides noise filtering on the step/dir, and IO lines between the Granites and 
Mesa cards.  As soon as I round up my notes on that I will add it.

Tom

On Feb 17, 2012, at 7:39 AM, James Louis wrote:

 Again, a wiring diagram would be worth a thousand words . . .
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Fri Feb 17 06:24:17 2012
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
 What are they using for breakout boards?  I don't see anything from mesa
 that really fits.  ie encoder inputs and step/dir.
 
 I see reference in the 7i76 to a switching power supply, is that built onto
 the board?  I suppose 40v would overload it?
 
 On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
 
 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:
 
 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:28:59 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
 How are these customers dealing with a stalled stepper, or is there any
 limits built in?
 
 When you use encoder feedback, stalled step motor detection is automatic
 (it causes a following error)
 
 
 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics
 
 (\__/)
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 ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-21 Thread James Louis
Thanks Tom!

- Original Message -
From: Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tue Feb 21 15:39:43 2012
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

1000 words have been added :-)  I updated the wiki page 
(http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine) with a system 
wiring schematic.  There is a pdf version and an Eagle (v6.1.0 - won't open in 
version 5) .sch file.  Follow toc link 2.4 Wiring Diagram.  I also added our 
Mesa 7i43 (400k version) firmware files.

The only thing missing from the schematic (I believe) is a small circuit that 
provides noise filtering on the step/dir, and IO lines between the Granites and 
Mesa cards.  As soon as I round up my notes on that I will add it.

Tom

On Feb 17, 2012, at 7:39 AM, James Louis wrote:

 Again, a wiring diagram would be worth a thousand words . . .

 - Original Message -
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Fri Feb 17 06:24:17 2012
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

 What are they using for breakout boards?  I don't see anything from mesa
 that really fits.  ie encoder inputs and step/dir.

 I see reference in the 7i76 to a switching power supply, is that built onto
 the board?  I suppose 40v would overload it?

 On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:

 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:28:59 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net

 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

 How are these customers dealing with a stalled stepper, or is there any
 limits built in?

 When you use encoder feedback, stalled step motor detection is automatic
 (it causes a following error)


 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics

 (\__/)
 (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
 ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.



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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-17 Thread Erik Friesen
What are they using for breakout boards?  I don't see anything from mesa
that really fits.  ie encoder inputs and step/dir.

I see reference in the 7i76 to a switching power supply, is that built onto
the board?  I suppose 40v would overload it?

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:

 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

  Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:28:59 -0500
  From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
  How are these customers dealing with a stalled stepper, or is there any
  limits built in?

 When you use encoder feedback, stalled step motor detection is automatic
 (it causes a following error)


 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics

 (\__/)
 (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
 ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.



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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-17 Thread James Louis
Again, a wiring diagram would be worth a thousand words . . .

- Original Message -
From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Fri Feb 17 06:24:17 2012
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

What are they using for breakout boards?  I don't see anything from mesa
that really fits.  ie encoder inputs and step/dir.

I see reference in the 7i76 to a switching power supply, is that built onto
the board?  I suppose 40v would overload it?

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:

 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

  Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:28:59 -0500
  From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
  How are these customers dealing with a stalled stepper, or is there any
  limits built in?

 When you use encoder feedback, stalled step motor detection is automatic
 (it causes a following error)


 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics

 (\__/)
 (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
 ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.



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 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-17 Thread Tom Easterday
On our current machine (the gantry plasma machine) we are using 7i42 buffer 
cards with a 7i43 card and a custom firmware load from Mesa which has 4 
step/dir and 4 single ended encoder inputs.  We built a small board that 
converts the differential signals from our encoders to single-ended inside the 
electronics cabinet.  

I also have a small mill on which I used the 7i43 with a 7i47 daughter board.  
On that one I have three stepper motors (step/dir) and three differential 
encoder signals wired to it.

Tom

On Feb 17, 2012, at 7:24 AM, Erik Friesen wrote:

 What are they using for breakout boards?  I don't see anything from mesa
 that really fits.  ie encoder inputs and step/dir.
 
 I see reference in the 7i76 to a switching power supply, is that built onto
 the board?  I suppose 40v would overload it?
 
 On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
 
 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:
 
 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:28:59 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
 How are these customers dealing with a stalled stepper, or is there any
 limits built in?
 
 When you use encoder feedback, stalled step motor detection is automatic
 (it causes a following error)
 
 
 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics
 
 (\__/)
 (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
 ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.
 
 
 
 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-17 Thread Tom Easterday
Ok, ok you guilted me into it.  ;-) I'll work on that.  I do want to document 
our wiring.  Not sure when I will get it done however, but I will work on it.
Tom


On Feb 17, 2012, at 7:39 AM, James Louis wrote:

 Again, a wiring diagram would be worth a thousand words . . .
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Fri Feb 17 06:24:17 2012
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
 What are they using for breakout boards?  I don't see anything from mesa
 that really fits.  ie encoder inputs and step/dir.
 
 I see reference in the 7i76 to a switching power supply, is that built onto
 the board?  I suppose 40v would overload it?
 
 On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
 
 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:
 
 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:28:59 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
 How are these customers dealing with a stalled stepper, or is there any
 limits built in?
 
 When you use encoder feedback, stalled step motor detection is automatic
 (it causes a following error)
 
 
 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics
 
 (\__/)
 (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
 ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.
 
 
 
 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Dave Caroline
Isolation is about protection of low voltage circuits that cannot
handle any spikes outside normal ranges
and the voltages inherent with electrical noise in a working system
which could easily be up to 1000v or more.
It also removes the ground loop that add/subtracts from your signal.

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Andy Pugh


On 16 Feb 2012, at 14:29, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote:

 How feasible is it to use the mesa 5i25 in a similar way to the universal
 stepper controller?  IE.. Use hardware step generation + encoder feedback?

Just a bare 5i25, or using daughter cards? 
You ought to be able to do it with a 7i76 and a 7i77 (that's the stepper board 
_and_ the servo board at the same time.  Otherwise you would need a special 
firmware I think. 25 pins might be a bit few, though there is a second 25 pin 
header too. The dedicated daughter boards use serial-connected hardware for the 
extra IO pins with only the stepgens, encoders and pwms wired direct back to 
the 5i25. 
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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Przemek Klosowski
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote:

 Another ignorant question, why is the industry so inclined to isolated IO?
 vs single board designed systems where everything is layed out properly.
 This just gets me, when trying to make a control system look neat, and you
 have to use a hodge podge of different breakout boards, drivers, etc, with
 a resultant rats nest of wires.

The interface boards are essentially working as fancy fuses, because
industrial environments are messy and confusing, with noise,
interference, crosstalk, voltage surges and wiring mishaps due to
things like technician error or 'conveyor chewed up the main cable
harness'. It's easier to replace an interface board than the entire
single board integrated controller.

In the old days, the PC serial ports always had a socketed 1488/1489
i/o buffer chips on the motherboard; instead of blowing up the entire
motherboard, serial port mishaps could be fixed by replacing the chip.
Curiously, those chips were designed by Jim Thompson who's around in
the sci.electronics.design newsgroup. Since then, they made protection
circuits better and/or people stopped doing egregious things with
serial ports---but still there's a standing recommendation to use
separate PCI cards for serial and parallel ports interfacing to
non-computer equipment, because they can be swapped out, unlike the
motherboard built-ins.

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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Peter C. Wallace
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:29:52 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
 How feasible is it to use the mesa 5i25 in a similar way to the universal
 stepper controller?  IE.. Use hardware step generation + encoder feedback?

Its easy, there are number of our customers doing this with step motors or 
step/dir driven servos. You just use a configuration with stepgens and encoder 
counters. Inside HAL the stepgens are set into velocity mode and PID loops are 
setup to so the PID output sets the step rate of the step motors or step/dir 
servos, basically emulating a velocity mode servo system.


(encoder_count, commanded_pos) -- PID comp -- stepgen_velocity_command
-- motor drive -- encoder_count



 Another ignorant question, why is the industry so inclined to isolated IO?
 vs single board designed systems where everything is layed out properly.
 This just gets me, when trying to make a control system look neat, and you
 have to use a hodge podge of different breakout boards, drivers, etc, with
 a resultant rats nest of wires.
 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
 Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
 also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
 http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
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 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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()_() signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread James Louis
Are there any example wiring diagrams available for this easy closed loop 
stepper configuration?
It sounds interesting.
Jim

- Original Message -
From: Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Thu Feb 16 08:42:33 2012
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:29:52 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] More control board questions

 How feasible is it to use the mesa 5i25 in a similar way to the universal
 stepper controller?  IE.. Use hardware step generation + encoder feedback?

Its easy, there are number of our customers doing this with step motors or
step/dir driven servos. You just use a configuration with stepgens and encoder
counters. Inside HAL the stepgens are set into velocity mode and PID loops are
setup to so the PID output sets the step rate of the step motors or step/dir
servos, basically emulating a velocity mode servo system.


(encoder_count, commanded_pos) -- PID comp -- stepgen_velocity_command
-- motor drive -- encoder_count



 Another ignorant question, why is the industry so inclined to isolated IO?
 vs single board designed systems where everything is layed out properly.
 This just gets me, when trying to make a control system look neat, and you
 have to use a hodge podge of different breakout boards, drivers, etc, with
 a resultant rats nest of wires.
 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
 Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
 also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
 http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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()_() signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Peter C. Wallace
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, James Louis wrote:

 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:02:26 -0600
 From: James Louis james.lo...@gastechnology.org
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
 Are there any example wiring diagrams available for this easy closed loop 
 stepper configuration?
 It sounds interesting.
 Jim

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine

includes HAL files I believe



 - Original Message -
 From: Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Thu Feb 16 08:42:33 2012
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:29:52 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] More control board questions

 How feasible is it to use the mesa 5i25 in a similar way to the universal
 stepper controller?  IE.. Use hardware step generation + encoder feedback?

 Its easy, there are number of our customers doing this with step motors or
 step/dir driven servos. You just use a configuration with stepgens and encoder
 counters. Inside HAL the stepgens are set into velocity mode and PID loops are
 setup to so the PID output sets the step rate of the step motors or step/dir
 servos, basically emulating a velocity mode servo system.


 (encoder_count, commanded_pos) -- PID comp -- stepgen_velocity_command
 -- motor drive -- encoder_count



 Another ignorant question, why is the industry so inclined to isolated IO?
 vs single board designed systems where everything is layed out properly.
 This just gets me, when trying to make a control system look neat, and you
 have to use a hodge podge of different breakout boards, drivers, etc, with
 a resultant rats nest of wires.
 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
 Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
 also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
 http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
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 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics

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 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
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 intended recipient of this communication, the disclosure, copying, 
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 communication in error, please advise me by return e-mail or by telephone and 
 then delete it immediately.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread James Louis
I could not find a wiring diagram of the devices connected to the Mesa 7I43-U-4 
card at GantryPlasmaMachine.  Config files yes, schematics no.
That is otherwise a GREAT wiki page!  Thanks!
Jim

- Original Message -
From: Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Thu Feb 16 09:26:02 2012
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, James Louis wrote:

 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:02:26 -0600
 From: James Louis james.lo...@gastechnology.org
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

 Are there any example wiring diagrams available for this easy closed loop 
 stepper configuration?
 It sounds interesting.
 Jim

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine

includes HAL files I believe



 - Original Message -
 From: Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Thu Feb 16 08:42:33 2012
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:29:52 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] More control board questions

 How feasible is it to use the mesa 5i25 in a similar way to the universal
 stepper controller?  IE.. Use hardware step generation + encoder feedback?

 Its easy, there are number of our customers doing this with step motors or
 step/dir driven servos. You just use a configuration with stepgens and encoder
 counters. Inside HAL the stepgens are set into velocity mode and PID loops are
 setup to so the PID output sets the step rate of the step motors or step/dir
 servos, basically emulating a velocity mode servo system.


 (encoder_count, commanded_pos) -- PID comp -- stepgen_velocity_command
 -- motor drive -- encoder_count



 Another ignorant question, why is the industry so inclined to isolated IO?
 vs single board designed systems where everything is layed out properly.
 This just gets me, when trying to make a control system look neat, and you
 have to use a hodge podge of different breakout boards, drivers, etc, with
 a resultant rats nest of wires.
 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
 Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
 also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
 http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics

 (\__/)
 (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
 ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.


 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
 Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
 also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
 http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
 ___
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 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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 contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the 
 intended recipient of this communication, the disclosure, copying, 
 distribution or use hereof is prohibited. If you have received this 
 communication in error, please advise me by return e-mail or by telephone and 
 then delete it immediately.


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
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()_() signature to help him gain world domination.


--
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please advise me by return e-mail

Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Jon Elson
James Louis wrote:
 Are there any example wiring diagrams available for this easy closed loop 
 stepper configuration?
Take a standard Universal Stepper Controller, and get it working with drives
and motors of your choice.  Add encoders, and flip the DIP switch on the 
board
to select the encoder as the position feedback source.  One DIP switch for
each axis, so you can use it on only selected axes.  Probably the only
change to EMC would be to make sure the INPUT_SCALE matches the
encoder counts * leadscrew pitch.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Erik Friesen
What I have in mind is my own daughtercard.  Encoders would be fed
through to the 5i25.  I would use a mcp3208 in spi mode to give me 8 analog
inputs, assuming the 5i25 can do it.

I have been looking at the gecko drives, they are 10x microstepping, which
seems overkill.  They do have some decent features though.  However, my
computer can only do 15khz software step generation, which doesn't do well
with 10x microstepping and speed.

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Andy Pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:



 On 16 Feb 2012, at 14:29, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote:

  How feasible is it to use the mesa 5i25 in a similar way to the universal
  stepper controller?  IE.. Use hardware step generation + encoder
 feedback?

 Just a bare 5i25, or using daughter cards?
 You ought to be able to do it with a 7i76 and a 7i77 (that's the stepper
 board _and_ the servo board at the same time.  Otherwise you would need a
 special firmware I think. 25 pins might be a bit few, though there is a
 second 25 pin header too. The dedicated daughter boards use
 serial-connected hardware for the extra IO pins with only the stepgens,
 encoders and pwms wired direct back to the 5i25.

 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
 Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
 also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
 http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
 ___
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 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Erik Friesen
How are these customers dealing with a stalled stepper, or is there any
limits built in?

I know you should never have a stalled stepper, but you still need to plan
for it anyway.

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:

 On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

  Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:29:52 -0500
  From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  Subject: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
  How feasible is it to use the mesa 5i25 in a similar way to the universal
  stepper controller?  IE.. Use hardware step generation + encoder
 feedback?

 Its easy, there are number of our customers doing this with step motors or
 step/dir driven servos. You just use a configuration with stepgens and
 encoder
 counters. Inside HAL the stepgens are set into velocity mode and PID loops
 are
 setup to so the PID output sets the step rate of the step motors or
 step/dir
 servos, basically emulating a velocity mode servo system.


 (encoder_count, commanded_pos) -- PID comp -- stepgen_velocity_command
 -- motor drive -- encoder_count


 
  Another ignorant question, why is the industry so inclined to isolated
 IO?
  vs single board designed systems where everything is layed out properly.
  This just gets me, when trying to make a control system look neat, and
 you
  have to use a hodge podge of different breakout boards, drivers, etc,
 with
  a resultant rats nest of wires.
 
 --
  Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
  Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
  also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
  http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
  ___
  Emc-users mailing list
  Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
 

 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics

 (\__/)
 (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
 ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.



 --
 Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
 Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
 also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
 http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

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Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing 
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http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread gene heskett
On Thursday, February 16, 2012 01:40:53 PM Erik Friesen did opine:

 What I have in mind is my own daughtercard.  Encoders would be fed
 through to the 5i25.  I would use a mcp3208 in spi mode to give me 8
 analog inputs, assuming the 5i25 can do it.
 
 I have been looking at the gecko drives, they are 10x microstepping,
 which seems overkill.  They do have some decent features though. 
 However, my computer can only do 15khz software step generation, which
 doesn't do well with 10x microstepping and speed.
 
The main advantage to the microstepping is two fold, and both come from the 
same effect, that of smoothing the steps and getting a lower excitation 
amplitude of the resonances in the motors mechanical vs magnetic 
characteristics. Remember, you are dealing with a very strong magnet whose 
instant position is determined by 2 very strong magnetic fields, so the 
armature is effectively held in position by 2 springs of varying strengths 
according to the currents programmed for that particular position in the 
full step envelope

You will need less in the way of dampers to control this resonance, and at 
the same time the motors turn noticeably quieter.  At one point 3 or 4 
years back I got curious and set the xylotex's for 1/2 step, and you could 
hear the motors howling in the neighbors back yard, so that experiment was 
terminated the same day.

When I bought the MM542 drivers I'm using now I knew the /64 microstepping 
they could do was not feasible, not on an atom powered D525MW board, but 
that /16 might be usable  if that was pushing the computer I could always 
go back to /8 which I was using with the xylotex drivers.  The noise 
reduction was noticeable, there are now some speeds less than 1 rps, where 
the motors are almost dead silent compared to the other noises from the 
fans and such, and its a bit odd to see them doing half a rev per second 
silently.

I have not checked to see how far I can push the rapids as I had a previous 
config setup that ran much faster, but that was also at the expense of long 
accel times, but there was no real gain in job times so I have not explored 
the rapids ranges above nominally 16 ipm on my toy yet, better things to do 
 too cold in the shop to spend days fine tuning that sort of thing.

 On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Andy Pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:
  On 16 Feb 2012, at 14:29, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote:
   How feasible is it to use the mesa 5i25 in a similar way to the
   universal stepper controller?  IE.. Use hardware step generation +
   encoder
  
  feedback?
  
  Just a bare 5i25, or using daughter cards?
  You ought to be able to do it with a 7i76 and a 7i77 (that's the
  stepper board _and_ the servo board at the same time.  Otherwise you
  would need a special firmware I think. 25 pins might be a bit few,
  though there is a second 25 pin header too. The dedicated daughter
  boards use
  serial-connected hardware for the extra IO pins with only the
  stepgens, encoders and pwms wired direct back to the 5i25.
  
  --
   Virtualization  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
  Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
  also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
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Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions

2012-02-16 Thread Peter C. Wallace
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Erik Friesen wrote:

 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:28:59 -0500
 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More control board questions
 
 How are these customers dealing with a stalled stepper, or is there any
 limits built in?

When you use encoder feedback, stalled step motor detection is automatic
(it causes a following error)


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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