Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:25:30 +0900 Jean-Philippe André wrote: > There's also an analog mode, which has pretty high contrast. :-) > I would prefer to use that somewhat in entrance. I think it may have less issues with a user background. But I could not find out how to "use" that. Does not seem to be an available style for elm_code. I think that is more gadget specific. I am not really sure. -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgptXiyxpf1yo.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
2017-07-18 8:28 GMT+09:00 William L. Thomson Jr. : > This looks horrible! Not to mention even with my glasses on I have a > hard time reading. But we have established no one cares about the > vision impaired running E. > https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-596cffc4015e98.11705649.jpg > > I have spent well over an entire day now trying to replace this stupid > clock look. I have already fixed it in my theme, eminence. Now I am > having to figure out how I can fix this for entrance default theme. > > Which seems because edje has some serious limitations. I cannot easily > inherit the default look, and override/replace an element. Such that I > am now having to copy the entire clock theme. Which I am running into a > series of other problems in doing such. With nothing working or any > signs of progress. > > It is making me hate edje with a passion!!! Not to mention this damn > clock. Why must people spend hours of their time trying to change the > look? I thuoght theming supposed to be easy? How the heck is a graphic > artist supposed to do this stuff? > > Ones personal preference should not cost others time like this to > change. At this point I am having to entirely re-do the clock, > replacing images with text. Otherwise I have to copy the clock images > from the default them into entrance theme for no reason. Duplicating > the default images is stupid. Even more so that I cannot use them > without copying into entrance theme. > > Thus far nothing works and seems using elm_clock is a horrible waste of > time. I am not sure if it can be themed looking at the source code. I > can only get pieces of it to show up with my modifications and its not > functioning. The most frustrating thing I have touched thus far in EFL. > > I seriously hate this clock! > There's also an analog mode, which has pretty high contrast. :-) -- Jean-Philippe André -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
This looks horrible! Not to mention even with my glasses on I have a hard time reading. But we have established no one cares about the vision impaired running E. https://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-596cffc4015e98.11705649.jpg I have spent well over an entire day now trying to replace this stupid clock look. I have already fixed it in my theme, eminence. Now I am having to figure out how I can fix this for entrance default theme. Which seems because edje has some serious limitations. I cannot easily inherit the default look, and override/replace an element. Such that I am now having to copy the entire clock theme. Which I am running into a series of other problems in doing such. With nothing working or any signs of progress. It is making me hate edje with a passion!!! Not to mention this damn clock. Why must people spend hours of their time trying to change the look? I thuoght theming supposed to be easy? How the heck is a graphic artist supposed to do this stuff? Ones personal preference should not cost others time like this to change. At this point I am having to entirely re-do the clock, replacing images with text. Otherwise I have to copy the clock images from the default them into entrance theme for no reason. Duplicating the default images is stupid. Even more so that I cannot use them without copying into entrance theme. Thus far nothing works and seems using elm_clock is a horrible waste of time. I am not sure if it can be themed looking at the source code. I can only get pieces of it to show up with my modifications and its not functioning. The most frustrating thing I have touched thus far in EFL. I seriously hate this clock! -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgpVCJEBLEBKm.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Wed, 10 May 2017 21:42:52 +0200 Jonathan Aquilina said: > Hi All, > > If anything I owe everyone an apology as I started this kind of debate > on IRC when I mentioned maybe starting a UX team where i would focus on > the user experience of various aspects of e. So apologies for any issues > caused here. i think this is a good idea. filing bugs with "this is an artefact - remove it. it makes it unreadable" is not the way to go about it though. making statements of FACT like "unreadable" requires more than just making the statement or quoting 2 or 3 people. you need to do some studies. e.g. flash the time up for 0.2 seconds then hide it... then rate how many people can accurately tell you the time. do this with or without the shadowed images. get decent enough stats to account for outliers. even if there is a "5% better reading ability" there is still a mater of weighing up design, styling vs raw usability too. someone has to make a judgement call in the end. generally when anyone says "that's unreadable" i instantly start ignoring everything else. when you speak in superlatives it had better be obviously just that. it's not. its far far far more subtle. improving ux is a very broad thing. part of it is purely aesthetic and this is often at the whim of fashion and personal preference. part is actually measurable usability like the above. i'm all for improving ux. but there has to be a distinction between subjective and objective. :) > --- > Regards, > > Jonathan Aquilina > > On 2017-05-10 11:43, PaulTT wrote: > > > i think it's like this on purpose > > i like it this way very much ;P > > > > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 5:48 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. > > wrote: > > > >> This is ridiculous. The default theme makes the clock look bad. I > >> opened a bug on such. I also recently found at least 1 way to fix such > >> ugly issues. > >> > >> I do not appreciate the ticket having been closed twice now over > >> semantics. This is a valid bug. The clock looks horrible by default. As > >> seen in the attached screenshot. > >> > >> https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 > >> > >> This is a valid bug/issue and should not be closed till resolved in > >> the current theme. > >> > >> -- > >> William L. Thomson Jr. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >> ___ > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > ___ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On 05/11/2017 05:29 AM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Wed, 10 May 2017 21:42:52 +0200 > Jonathan Aquilina wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> If anything I owe everyone an apology as I started this kind of debate >> on IRC when I mentioned maybe starting a UX team where i would focus >> on the user experience of various aspects of e. So apologies for any >> issues caused here. > > Nothing to do with you. It was the first thing I noticed. I filed a bug > on it as one of my first. On Apr 9 2017. Long before the IRC convo. > > I will be doing a presentation next month for my LUG. They record the > presentations. I will make sure to ask everyone in the room about the > clock. That way you can see first hand how some react when seeing it > for the first time. I will not show any bias. I will ask two questions. > > 1. Can you read the clock easily? > 2. What does it look like? > > Curious if anyone says a tube, nixie, vfd, etc clock. > It looked more like a nixie clock originally but was changed to make it easier to read the lower numbers as 2 and 3 used to have a greyed out outline of 7 and 8 etc on top like a real one would. -- Simon Lees (Simotek)http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Wed, 10 May 2017 21:42:52 +0200 Jonathan Aquilina wrote: > Hi All, > > If anything I owe everyone an apology as I started this kind of debate > on IRC when I mentioned maybe starting a UX team where i would focus > on the user experience of various aspects of e. So apologies for any > issues caused here. Nothing to do with you. It was the first thing I noticed. I filed a bug on it as one of my first. On Apr 9 2017. Long before the IRC convo. I will be doing a presentation next month for my LUG. They record the presentations. I will make sure to ask everyone in the room about the clock. That way you can see first hand how some react when seeing it for the first time. I will not show any bias. I will ask two questions. 1. Can you read the clock easily? 2. What does it look like? Curious if anyone says a tube, nixie, vfd, etc clock. Really just something that needed 1 other option to never be an issue. Via EDC would not have been much to make the same clock less those images. Or one using text vs images for digits. Though why it has to be one or the other and not option for both is interesting. All could easily have been avoided :) -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgpRqQ6dewY3n.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
Hi All, If anything I owe everyone an apology as I started this kind of debate on IRC when I mentioned maybe starting a UX team where i would focus on the user experience of various aspects of e. So apologies for any issues caused here. --- Regards, Jonathan Aquilina On 2017-05-10 11:43, PaulTT wrote: > i think it's like this on purpose > i like it this way very much ;P > > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 5:48 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. > wrote: > >> This is ridiculous. The default theme makes the clock look bad. I >> opened a bug on such. I also recently found at least 1 way to fix such >> ugly issues. >> >> I do not appreciate the ticket having been closed twice now over >> semantics. This is a valid bug. The clock looks horrible by default. As >> seen in the attached screenshot. >> >> https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 >> >> This is a valid bug/issue and should not be closed till resolved in >> the current theme. >> >> -- >> William L. Thomson Jr. >> >> >> -- >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> ___ >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
i think it's like this on purpose i like it this way very much ;P On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 5:48 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > This is ridiculous. The default theme makes the clock look bad. I > opened a bug on such. I also recently found at least 1 way to fix such > ugly issues. > > I do not appreciate the ticket having been closed twice now over > semantics. This is a valid bug. The clock looks horrible by default. As > seen in the attached screenshot. > > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 > > This is a valid bug/issue and should not be closed till resolved in > the current theme. > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sun, 7 May 2017 12:07:00 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Sat, 6 May 2017 16:48:31 -0400 "William L. Thomson Jr." > said: > > not much in the way of artwork :(. it's just removing the "unlit > elements" part. as per my mail to massimo, Actually not really, they are still there just transparent. The proper way would be to further remove from EDC. Just was easier to make them transparent for experimentation. Then I can go on to removing etc. Remaking digits is for later I have not started remaking any icons. I have others to replace first. That were made in various sizes. >i think it doesn't look as > nice as you now no longer get the impression of there being a stack > of elements with one o them lit up. it doesn't look as "right". I very much get you like the look. I got that reading the first post from you in 2014 on the topic. Though I still would have spoke up. It makes it less legible. -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgpcPmw6CPbuz.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sun, 7 May 2017 12:14:03 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > again. subjective. it does sound a bit like "i don't appreciate being > disagreed with". closing a ticket as invalid because it just presents > an opinion (and is expected to remain open for as long as the filter > holds hat opinion) is not a bad thing. it's clearing up noise. > > opinions can indeed be had. they can be expressed and debated. but > don't be surprised if an opinion ticket gets closed as "nope - > disagree". It should not be black and white. There should be ways to cater to all. As others had suggested a potential 3rd option that would not have such look. It seems others are MUCH less receptive to doing things others ways and catering to all. Its this way or that way, not all ways I tend to try to cater to all, not some or myself. Thus I would have kept it open till a solution was presented that satisfied all. Which could simply be an option. Likely much less effort all around to code up such than to debate. > you seem to think resolved == "do it my way because my opinion is the > only one that counts". the clock was designed around he look of a > nixie clock: In fact that is how it seems to come off the other way. I was not around in 2014 when this came up before. But I did see you expressing your opinion. It seems more like pot calling kettle black. > https://i2.wp.com/www.fiz-x.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Large-Glass-Nixie-Clock.jpg The display of that clock looks nothing like that. Again I have been around THOUSANDS of tubes. The dude was hoarding them like crazy. All sorts of old devices in additions to ones he ordered. He made clocks and all sorts of stuff in addition to the amplifiers. > and you see all the digits as unlit pieces of wire. the ticket was > validly closed. it's invalid. it's not an artefact. it's not a bug. > its intended design. It looks much more like VFD, LCD, and LED displays. However when colors and background, transparency etc. It ends up looking bad as it makes it hard to read the clock. I am not the only one who has said such. > so someone else didn't like it in the past too. so what? there is no > such thing "as everyone likes this" when it comes to art. or style. > or colors. it never exists. it's a design choice. like it or not. > enough people like it. it's consistent with the look and feel. Clearly there is a problem with catering to all. Its "your" way or no way. Not saying you personally just saying in general. I tend to present options. Do not like this way, ok fine, lets adapt it for another use to make all happy. What is wrong with that? > a few people saying "i don't like it" doesn't constitute a bug nor a > reason to go changing it. >From my reading of 2014, one person seemed to represent a larger community. Many people will not speak up against such. Surely not when they see people having such strong feelings towards a design they prefer. With no acceptance that is causing VISUAL issues for others. Ever think some may have poor eye sight? Oh screw the handicap right? Really think, cater to more than just yourself. I have no problem with that look remaining. But why not have options? There is a analog and digital. There could be another option for a different look Does not require a full on theme, debates, etc. >a LOT of people (eg the majority) might > justify it. there has been no mass outcry over it, so it remains in > the opinion bucket. if you want - maybe start a vote and see what > percentage of people like or dislike it (within the context of the > theme as a whole - does it look nice/right with this theme look and > feel?)... then you may be getting somewhere, but now you're getting > into politics of "are you on my side or theirs? vote for me!" when > this is clearly not a bug, an artefact or a mistake. it's intended > design and we're arguing artistic merit, not technical issues. That is silly. Much easier to just add option to to display in various formats and done. -- William L. Thomson Jr. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sat, 6 May 2017 11:48:44 -0400 "William L. Thomson Jr." said: > This is ridiculous. The default theme makes the clock look bad. I that is a subjective opinion. there needs to be an understanding that objective fact is far different to this. > opened a bug on such. I also recently found at least 1 way to fix such > ugly issues. > > I do not appreciate the ticket having been closed twice now over > semantics. This is a valid bug. The clock looks horrible by default. As > seen in the attached screenshot. again. subjective. it does sound a bit like "i don't appreciate being disagreed with". closing a ticket as invalid because it just presents an opinion (and is expected to remain open for as long as the filter holds hat opinion) is not a bad thing. it's clearing up noise. opinions can indeed be had. they can be expressed and debated. but don't be surprised if an opinion ticket gets closed as "nope - disagree". if there were real artefacts here (e.g. in rendering) it'd be a problem and something to keep open... > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 > > This is a valid bug/issue and should not be closed till resolved in > the current theme. you seem to think resolved == "do it my way because my opinion is the only one that counts". the clock was designed around he look of a nixie clock: https://i2.wp.com/www.fiz-x.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Large-Glass-Nixie-Clock.jpg and you see all the digits as unlit pieces of wire. the ticket was validly closed. it's invalid. it's not an artefact. it's not a bug. its intended design. so someone else didn't like it in the past too. so what? there is no such thing "as everyone likes this" when it comes to art. or style. or colors. it never exists. it's a design choice. like it or not. enough people like it. it's consistent with the look and feel. a few people saying "i don't like it" doesn't constitute a bug nor a reason to go changing it. a LOT of people (eg the majority) might justify it. there has been no mass outcry over it, so it remains in the opinion bucket. if you want - maybe start a vote and see what percentage of people like or dislike it (within the context of the theme as a whole - does it look nice/right with this theme look and feel?)... then you may be getting somewhere, but now you're getting into politics of "are you on my side or theirs? vote for me!" when this is clearly not a bug, an artefact or a mistake. it's intended design and we're arguing artistic merit, not technical issues. -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sat, 6 May 2017 15:17:16 -0400 "William L. Thomson Jr." said: > On Sat, 6 May 2017 19:59:04 +0100 > Al Poole wrote: > > > This is NOT a bug. > > > > It's intended to look like that - vacuum tube clock. > > If you have to tell people what it looks like. Its a poor design. > Others have said Neon clock. Though could resemble old LED's where > you could see the lines for other digits. that's as wrong as can be. so what if it's neon or nixie? they serve the same purpose - glowing elements used to light up a display. in fact being ambiguous is kind of neat. the viewer can have their own interpretation. not to mention the vast majority of icons in a ui are not clear on what they are but they get the job done. looking at the "junk" icon in sylphed here it looks like it could be a box with tissues poking out of it, but it's meant to be a paper tray with scrunched up paper. it doesn't matter. i see another icon that looks more like a windmill but it's meant to be a rolodex (i've never owned a rolodex but i happen to ave looked up what they are so i can understand such icons). the world of visual art is full of ambiguity... and often when it's not crucial to meaning (which is the case with the clock) it's nice to have artistic license to do that. do you want to get into an art discussion? my mother is a professional portrait artist. she has a university degree in fine arts. i have learned a lot from her growing up in a house full of art my entire life. my parents have dedicated rooms to her artwork in their house and there is almost not a wall spare without some painting on it. i grew up my entire life surrounded by paintings from realistic to abstract. i myself won the art prize at my school year after year. i chose to go the computer route as to me software is art coming to life. but art is something i have spent my life around, if creating it or manipulating it or observing it and it's creation up close. if you want to argue artistic interpretation, license, etc. ... i'm all up for that. but i have learned that people do not have the same TASTE. there is no such thing as "universally perfect art that everyone loves". beauty is in the eye of the beholder. tastes change over time with fashion too - some people are more influenced than others. what you interpret in something artistic often is a result of your experiences in life and sometimes some small percentage of people simply lack those experiences to interpret the way it was intended. this is reality in a world of different cultures and history. > Like this > https://www.walmart.com/ip/SmartSet-Radio-Alarm-Clock-LED/33314888 > > To me It looks nothing like most vacuum tube clocks > https://www.google.com/search?q=vacuum+tube+clock&source=lnms&tbm=isch it's a simplified version without all the extra tubes, base and so on. it's slightly stylized to fit in with everything else. like: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a8/4d/cf/a84dcf67a2d220ba644e7eb70e4c403c.jpg OMG! that looks wrong! cat's aren't blue and brown! they don't have triangles on their legs! it's called artistic licence. i can very well draw something that looks totally photorealistic. i actually did a clock that was with glass tubes, mesh wire, and so on ... and i chose a simplified version like this after trying many alternatives and variations because the more realistic versions were far too busy. without the unlit digits though it just was too simple and that was not the intended look. if you think you an do better. go draw a better one and propose it. please do so. just removing the base isn't better - been there, done that. i've tried many variations of look already. perhaps you have one i haven't tried that people do things looks better and that fits. saying "oh but i don't have the artistic skills, so someone else do it for me" is a cop out. go learn those skills then just like you learned to program if you don't have them. so come up with an alternative you think looks better, that scales up and down nicely (looks good both small and big) is legible at a glance, and fits the overall look and feel... then let's all consider that. > Maybe like this one, which seems rare. > http://makezine.com/2009/12/25/sweet-vacuum-tube-clock-build/ i considered the "digital led" style and really didn't like how it looked. thus i went the nixie/neon look. if the purpose o the theme was to be minimalistic or flat or whatever... then it'd have a different look. but if you think you have a better look - come up with one. but keep in min this is a design/artistic exercise, not one of coding/bugs so to speak. when films are made there will be a director, artistic lead, or when games produced the same, and multiple artists will present their ideas and one get chosen... the others may then go "but mine is better" and some may agree... but a decision will be made in the interests of the whole piece of work and it's artistic merit and design. when you have dozens or hundreds
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sat, 6 May 2017 18:19:46 +0200 Massimo Maiurana said: > I've always thought those "artifacts" was intended, and I also like them :) they were indeed intended. i also like them. i tried the plain look. it didnt look right to me. > Bye > Massimo > > William L. Thomson Jr. ha scritto il 06/05/2017 alle 17:48: > > This is ridiculous. The default theme makes the clock look bad. I > > opened a bug on such. I also recently found at least 1 way to fix such > > ugly issues. > > > > I do not appreciate the ticket having been closed twice now over > > semantics. This is a valid bug. The clock looks horrible by default. As > > seen in the attached screenshot. > > > > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 > > > > This is a valid bug/issue and should not be closed till resolved in > > the current theme. > > > > > > > > -- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > > > > ___ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > -- > Massimo Maiurana > Ragusa (RG) > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sat, 6 May 2017 16:48:31 -0400 "William L. Thomson Jr." said: > On Sat, 6 May 2017 20:38:10 +0100 > Al Poole wrote: > > > If you are unhappy with the design, please do feel free to make > > changes and submit. > > I have did you see the screenshot I provided on ticket? > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 not much in the way of artwork :(. it's just removing the "unlit elements" part. as per my mail to massimo, i think it doesn't look as nice as you now no longer get the impression of there being a stack of elements with one o them lit up. it doesn't look as "right". > It is available here > https://github.com/Obsidian-StudiosInc/eminence > https://github.com/Obsidian-StudiosInc/eminence/releases > > > There isn't a team of artists in this project, so artwork is only > > done when developers both have the skills to do that and the time - > > both rare resources. > > I am quite aware. I am one of such people > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
I think I can say on behalf of both myself and the other developers that we look forward to your efforts. On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 9:48 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Sat, 6 May 2017 20:38:10 +0100 > Al Poole wrote: > > > If you are unhappy with the design, please do feel free to make > > changes and submit. > > I have did you see the screenshot I provided on ticket? > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 > > It is available here > https://github.com/Obsidian-StudiosInc/eminence > https://github.com/Obsidian-StudiosInc/eminence/releases > > > There isn't a team of artists in this project, so artwork is only > > done when developers both have the skills to do that and the time - > > both rare resources. > > I am quite aware. I am one of such people > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sat, 6 May 2017 20:38:10 +0100 Al Poole wrote: > If you are unhappy with the design, please do feel free to make > changes and submit. I have did you see the screenshot I provided on ticket? https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 It is available here https://github.com/Obsidian-StudiosInc/eminence https://github.com/Obsidian-StudiosInc/eminence/releases > There isn't a team of artists in this project, so artwork is only > done when developers both have the skills to do that and the time - > both rare resources. I am quite aware. I am one of such people -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgpNXldxmDsow.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
Really On Sat, May 6, 2017, 2:38 PM Al Poole wrote: > If you are unhappy with the design, please do feel free to make changes and > submit. > > There isn't a team of artists in this project, so artwork is only done when > developers both have the skills to do that and the time - both rare > resources. > > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 8:29 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. > wrote: > > > On Sat, 6 May 2017 19:59:04 +0100 > > Al Poole wrote: > > > > > This is NOT a bug. > > > > > > It's intended to look like that - vacuum tube clock. > > > > I think the correct term is Vacuum Fluorescent Display > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_fluorescent_display > > > > Not sure its really the same as regular vaccum tubes, as these > > are really tiny. > > > > "These games featured bright, clear displays but the size of the > > largest vacuum tubes that could be manufactured inexpensively kept the > > size of the displays quite small, often requiring the use of > > magnifying Fresnel lenses" > > > > > > -- > > William L. Thomson Jr. > > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
If you are unhappy with the design, please do feel free to make changes and submit. There isn't a team of artists in this project, so artwork is only done when developers both have the skills to do that and the time - both rare resources. On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 8:29 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Sat, 6 May 2017 19:59:04 +0100 > Al Poole wrote: > > > This is NOT a bug. > > > > It's intended to look like that - vacuum tube clock. > > I think the correct term is Vacuum Fluorescent Display > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_fluorescent_display > > Not sure its really the same as regular vaccum tubes, as these > are really tiny. > > "These games featured bright, clear displays but the size of the > largest vacuum tubes that could be manufactured inexpensively kept the > size of the displays quite small, often requiring the use of > magnifying Fresnel lenses" > > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sat, 6 May 2017 19:59:04 +0100 Al Poole wrote: > This is NOT a bug. > > It's intended to look like that - vacuum tube clock. I think the correct term is Vacuum Fluorescent Display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_fluorescent_display Not sure its really the same as regular vaccum tubes, as these are really tiny. "These games featured bright, clear displays but the size of the largest vacuum tubes that could be manufactured inexpensively kept the size of the displays quite small, often requiring the use of magnifying Fresnel lenses" -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgpESjJHuZFyN.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sat, 6 May 2017 19:59:04 +0100 Al Poole wrote: > This is NOT a bug. > > It's intended to look like that - vacuum tube clock. If you have to tell people what it looks like. Its a poor design. Others have said Neon clock. Though could resemble old LED's where you could see the lines for other digits. Like this https://www.walmart.com/ip/SmartSet-Radio-Alarm-Clock-LED/33314888 To me It looks nothing like most vacuum tube clocks https://www.google.com/search?q=vacuum+tube+clock&source=lnms&tbm=isch Maybe like this one, which seems rare. http://makezine.com/2009/12/25/sweet-vacuum-tube-clock-build/ Having been around since the first PCB prototyping. It is not what I think of when I think vacuum tubes. Having spent some time around them. I was there for the start of this company. Not affiliated, but I saw it come about first hand. Kara and George split years ago. George was the one who was the driving force. Kara was more technical. http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/ -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgpCe0z9GgUwK.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
This is NOT a bug. It's intended to look like that - vacuum tube clock. On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 5:58 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > On Sat, 06 May 2017 16:06:54 + > Mike Blumenkrantz wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Please refrain from cross-posting complaints like this from the bug > > tracker to the mailing list. You are reaching the same people in both > > cases, and it just creates more noise for them to sift through. > > That was because it seemed the status would remain as such. Which it is > strange to continue discussion on something closed as invalid. Usually > tickets are not the best place for discussion, mailing lists are better > suited for such. Thus I came here, but then the discussion resumed > there > > It is more interesting that this topic came up before on list in 2014 > as mentioned in ticket. I have a feeling it will continue to repeat. I > am curious why another option was not pursued. > > As suggested here > https://sourceforge.net/p/enlightenment/mailman/message/30098076/ > > I guess that was leaving it up to others to make the 3rd option. > > Also per that thread, seems like a minority liked the looked, and > others did not. This very likely may continue to be the case. Which > means first impression of E and its quality for some will be poor. > > Most will not understand this is a "retro" neon clock look etc. They > will think it has a bug or something. They will not like the look, and > carry that opinion onto others aspects of E. Likely moving onto > something else > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
On Sat, 06 May 2017 16:06:54 + Mike Blumenkrantz wrote: > Hi, > > Please refrain from cross-posting complaints like this from the bug > tracker to the mailing list. You are reaching the same people in both > cases, and it just creates more noise for them to sift through. That was because it seemed the status would remain as such. Which it is strange to continue discussion on something closed as invalid. Usually tickets are not the best place for discussion, mailing lists are better suited for such. Thus I came here, but then the discussion resumed there It is more interesting that this topic came up before on list in 2014 as mentioned in ticket. I have a feeling it will continue to repeat. I am curious why another option was not pursued. As suggested here https://sourceforge.net/p/enlightenment/mailman/message/30098076/ I guess that was leaving it up to others to make the 3rd option. Also per that thread, seems like a minority liked the looked, and others did not. This very likely may continue to be the case. Which means first impression of E and its quality for some will be poor. Most will not understand this is a "retro" neon clock look etc. They will think it has a bug or something. They will not like the look, and carry that opinion onto others aspects of E. Likely moving onto something else -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgpdHj_soMdst.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
I've always thought those "artifacts" was intended, and I also like them :) Bye Massimo William L. Thomson Jr. ha scritto il 06/05/2017 alle 17:48: > This is ridiculous. The default theme makes the clock look bad. I > opened a bug on such. I also recently found at least 1 way to fix such > ugly issues. > > I do not appreciate the ticket having been closed twice now over > semantics. This is a valid bug. The clock looks horrible by default. As > seen in the attached screenshot. > > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 > > This is a valid bug/issue and should not be closed till resolved in > the current theme. > > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- Massimo Maiurana Ragusa (RG) -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
Hi, Please refrain from cross-posting complaints like this from the bug tracker to the mailing list. You are reaching the same people in both cases, and it just creates more noise for them to sift through. Thanks, Mike On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 11:50 AM William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: > This is ridiculous. The default theme makes the clock look bad. I > opened a bug on such. I also recently found at least 1 way to fix such > ugly issues. > > I do not appreciate the ticket having been closed twice now over > semantics. This is a valid bug. The clock looks horrible by default. As > seen in the attached screenshot. > > https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 > > This is a valid bug/issue and should not be closed till resolved in > the current theme. > > -- > William L. Thomson Jr. > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] Unwanted artifacts on clock
This is ridiculous. The default theme makes the clock look bad. I opened a bug on such. I also recently found at least 1 way to fix such ugly issues. I do not appreciate the ticket having been closed twice now over semantics. This is a valid bug. The clock looks horrible by default. As seen in the attached screenshot. https://phab.enlightenment.org/T5375 This is a valid bug/issue and should not be closed till resolved in the current theme. -- William L. Thomson Jr. pgpU4DVsXKY5l.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel